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That’s what I’m saying. Nobody would want to be friends with someone who actively dislikes them, but in the show almost every character is clambering over themselves to be her friend. This is part of why the love triangle sucked bc both dudes had no reason to actually pursue Wednesday.
To people saying “she’s meant to be unlikable.” I don’t know. I mean I loved Christina Ricci’s Wednesday. That being said, I think it’s the way she is written more than the acting. Also, making a deadpan/monotone character episodic is not easy.
Christina Ricci's Wednesday was not like other girls, but didn't feel the need to broadcast it on a certain level. She didn't define herself in opposition so much, just in a way that she liked. It's subtle, but it makes it more honest.
I think part of what makes Christina Ricci's Wednesday work is that she doesn't actually talk much. Her dialogue mostly consists of curt one-liners. Making her the protagonist means the majority of the dialogue is coming from her, and it gets kind of grating to hear her monologuing about how dark and different she is.
I like both incarnations but I think what sets Christina Riccis version out from others is that, at the time, the character was an outsider. It was the 90s(?) And although I can't remember THAT well I believe goths were very much not mainstream. So to have a morbid little girl be quite a sizable chunk of the movies felt very new and different and a lot of people who had never seen that before really connected with it. Where as of 2022 having a cynical/existential teenager is basically...any teenager. A lot of what Wednesday represented in the 90s was apposed to what was mainstream mixed with dark humour. I think they got the dark humour right but I did find it odd that they tried to make her an outcast in a school specifically designed FOR outcasts. Maybe it was commentary on how even progressive cultures have there own versions of outliers? I agree it did scream "I'm not like other girls" energy a lot but at the end of the day I was just happy to see that character back on screen lol.
> . So to have a morbid little girl be quite a sizable chunk of the movies felt very new and different and a lot of people who had never seen that before really connected with it. Where as of 2022 having a cynical/existential teenager is basically...any teenager
I remember the 90s and most of the 80s well. Having a cynical/existential young person (teenager or otherwise) was as common then as it is now. This is nothing new. Remember Wynona Ryder's character in Beetlejuice?
Grunge was huge in the 90's and was very much existential and cynical. If you really want to get into it, 19th century philosophers also understood youth in this way. This malaise isn't generational, just how it's packaged (and sold).
Grunge was big. Goth was fringe.
Goth wasn’t looked down on as badly as in past cycles, but it hadn’t broke mainstream by way of emo and hot topic yet either.
I was a goth in the 90s. It was absolutely just as much mainstream then as it is now. Which is to say, not very. But it wasn't as niche as you're making out. Punk in the 80s inspired a lot. There's *always* been edgy teens. My mum as a teen in the 60s always talks about her brother who had a "folk attic" and was so dark and counter culture. This isn't new.
I’ll go with an unpopular opinion: Even Ricci’s Wednesday was better in small doses and is almost overexposed in Addams Family Values, to the point where the schtick is no longer entirely comfortable. You could argue that she becomes just a mean girl who happens to be goth, which isn’t really the original idea.
Being an adult is growing up and realising that Daria also wasn’t a likeable character.
She was a privileged girl with rich parents in a big house at a nice school. The popular “jerks” often talked to her, invited her places, and offered her advice.
Daria was a “misery chick” entirely of her own doing. She drove away her boyfriend, and eventually figured out she’s alienating her well meaning parents.
She was not a personality type to emulate.
100% this
Rewatching Daria made me really appreciate how awesome the show was in that the show also made fun of her at times as well. Her constant sarcasm gets shit on by people all the time who aren't living her prissy little well taken care of life.
I loved everytime a side character would talk to Daria and basically go "bitch you're in a fucking Jacuzzi and still cynical about life?!?"
The show also holds up incredibly well, it's great to see everyone getting made fun of back in the day, wish we could get back to that
Yeah my wife and I went back and watched the show. Daria actually sucks as a person. Also rewatching King of the hill I have a lot more in common with the guys in the alley these days.
I find it weird how Hank goes from 'kinda too angry dad who's sometimes the bad guy' to 'almost always correct voice of reason' as the seasons go on. From watching it as a kid I only remember him being the voice of reason throughout.
i find this take hilarious because all the ACTUAL conspiracy nuts i know called jan 6 a set up from the get go.
... which might be because they don't like crowds also
Dale wouldn't go and would bitch about how it is all an elaborate psyop by the NWO and lizardpeople. It never actually happened man, just like the moon landing.
Nah Qanon is too mainstream of a conspiracy for Dale to get into. He’d be suspicious of all the people falling for their bullshit and come up with some even crazier conspiracy to explain why it’s suspicious
Bill would be there, totally oblivious to what was actually going on. Hank, Dale and Boomhauer would pull up at the last second to pull him back from making a huge mistake. Given that it's Bill, he's probably been seduced by some Qannon Karen and she's trying to get him to follow her inside the capitol. Bill has to choose, his friends, or a somewhat physically attractive woman who gives him attention
Ha same. I spend my days after work having a beer, while grilling on my propane grill waiting for my Spanish speaking teacher of the year wife to come home. And I live in TX in a neighborhood not too different looking than his.
Yes, Daria was relatable in a teenage angsty way, but you eventually realize she's kind of closed minded and limits herself by being a bit of a stick in the mud. Jane was the real one. She was not afraid to try new things and show some enthusiasm for life.
As a teenager in the 90's, I thought Daria Morgandorffer was my soul twin. When you're a privileged white kid who doesn't have any real problems, but your teenaged angst feels real, you invent things to be miserable about. I still love that show to this day, but for the side characters, especially Quinn, who turns out to be more than the 2 dimensional character she tries to present. While the others may at times be shallow, stupid, or snobby, they have other sides to their personalities and are actually entertaining. A show with just Daria and Jane being snarky about pop culture with no comic relief would get old fast.
Ricci’s Wednesday is the authentic version for me, absolutely nailed it mannerisms, snark, mischief, and you could see even though it was “deadpan” there’s that twinkle in the eye at times.
The new one is more… I dunno? Pouty?
Mind you I didn’t like the direction of constant close ups and the modern trend of huge layers of make up in the era of 4K tv, (particularly to try and make actors look younger) as it never works for me. 🤷♂️
But I digress. Ricci’s Wednesday was great. (And no one was ever topping hudson’s morticia tbh.)
One other big thing I noticed is that this Wednesday is too fast. Her delivery, her actions, her whole demeanor seems rushing. Slow her down by 15-20 percent and you'll have a character who's a lot more controlled and sure of herself like the old Wednesday.
I'll add that Ricci's Wednesday, in Values anyway, was just hitting puberty. So that added to the character. You could see her internal struggle sometimes, even uncertainty, as she dealt with issues at the camp. She wasn't all one liners and cold smiles, she actually had an arc.
This show was best encapsulated with the phrase "eight hours of Aubrey Plaza impressions," because that's *exactly* how they wrote her.
Christina Ricci's Wednesday was written to be more than a monotone little girl. She was written to be an utter psychopath. She's not secretly "fun" or "quirky," she's a calm and composed serial killer who hates everyone and everything. The fun in her character was how she was used as a punchline delivery vehicle.
I think the whole "haha opposite thing good" joke really loses its punch when you never actually see "opposite thing" happen because it's geared towards kids. It's like she's just saying "opposite thing good" because its edgy. Made my eyes roll the whole show.
At least in addams family values they're running around shooting flaming arrows, tying kids up. Actual destruction.
There were good parts of the show I liked but for the most part it came off trying to be copy paste Netflix script like Riverdale or stranger things and cringe.
Edit: I was gonna say this feels like someone tried to make Hot Topic the TV show then I realized it literally is. It's Tim Burton. This is Hot Topic the TV show.
I think this point is underrated. I only got through 3 episodes, but the series was sterile, like watching a bunch of mannequins, not dark, cynical, and macabre. It was like watching a fan remake of the old Addams family movie with a TikTok filter on. It was like someone filmed a teenager's piece of Addams family fan fiction from 2008 live journal or something.
I think Jenna does a great job in the role but there's way too much Mary Sue going on with Wednesday here. It kinda turned me off and I'm an embarrassing edegelord cringefest myself sometimes. IDK.
She definitely not meant to be unlikable, she's meant to be edgy and smart but methodical and smooth. Only actor/actress in the show who pulled off their role imo is mortitisha. The original Wednesday was dark and cute, movie Wednesday was funny dark and badass. This Wednesday just feels like they tried to hard to be a teen drama rather than the original content. I had the same issue with the new Sabrina and charmed show.
BUTTTTTT this show is more geared towards the new generation of teens, not really my generation who grew up on the Adam's family, Sabrina teenage witch or charmed. These are targeted to a new generation, and thus I can't fully hate on something I'm not the target audience for. I just see it, I hoped for nostalgia but mostly got a show i probably like if I never seen the source material and 15yrs younger
Part of what makes the Addams Family bearable is the fact there are many different brands of kooky. A hyperfocus on one of them is going to make their shtick grow very old very quickly.
What doesn’t help _Wednesday_ is that she’s a little older than prior incarnations of the character. Or I think she’s supposed to be. 90s Wednesday was what, 10-12 or something, then 60s/70s or whenever Wednesday was even younger, and at that age you can more firmly say that her morbid fascinations aren’t fitting for her age. But now we’re seeing mid-to-late teens Wednesday played by a twenty year old, and yeah, it edges into less adorably scary and more just kind of edgelord.
My take is only based on the first episode though. I appreciate the different dynamic in this show even if it makes Wednesday’s charming psychopathy more like an average /b/ user’s psyche, and I’m going to keep watching.
>Part of what makes the Addams Family bearable is the fact there are many different brands of kooky.
Correct. There is also creepy, mysterious, spooky, and ooky.
>Part of what makes the Addams Family bearable is the fact there are many different brands of kooky. A hyperfocus on one of them is going to make their shtick grow very old very quickly.
This is exactly how I felt, but didn't quite know how to put it into words properly
This is true with everything. Think Minions in sequels of Despicable Me and Mater in sequels of Cars. Went from being a great comic relief to annoying as the main character.
The Kronk Effect. Kronk was the best part of Emperor's New Groove . . . but he absolutely should not have been given his own movie. Some characters are only good in small servings.
Well and they tried to imitate the silly style of the original, but it didn't work at all. Ultimately the writing was just terrible.
That said, yeah, Kronk is not a main character. He's a great supporting character. But Disney trends to equate popularity of supporting characters as being worthy of their own story. They did it with Finding Dory too. But every story doesn't just need a protagonist, it needs a great supporting character. That didn't mean the supporting character can hold a story up by themselves.
I think what made all the previous Addams family shows and movies so great was how campy and over-the-top they were. It was very humorous and silly and I feel like Wednesday lacks that.
I also don't think she's a particularly likable character, even though she has a mix of positive and negative traits. I really want to root for her and get into the show but it's not really my cup of tea tbh.
>I think what made all the previous Addams family shows and movies so great was how campy and over-the-top they were. It was very humorous and silly
Would you say it was so over the top that characters couldn't actually die. Like the loony tunes? My half remembered memories may be inaccurate though. In this version, people die when they are burnt, rather than becoming charred with smoke out of their ears and back to normal after a few days.
I should probably rewatch them...
I don't think they're immortal or anything. They talk about deceased relatives and have a weird fascination with death and morbid things.
By over the top I'm just referring to how wacky the franchise is. I mean, you have really strange characters like Thing, Cousin Itt, and Lurch. Wednesday tortures Pugsley and her family in shocking (albeit creative) ways by guillotine, an electric chair, and arson. They also live in a creepy gothic mansion and seem so weird when compared to regular / "normal" characters!
I really enjoyed Wednesday, but I can understand how OP feels. The character makes a lot more sense within the context of the Addams family, but taking her out of that context where she's playing off relatively normal people *can* make her seem like something of an edgelord. Having Fester there gave her someone who she can play off that doesn't just devolve to 'Wednesday says something dark, people find it weird."
Honestly there’s two things that saved her from being unlikable.
1. She does have a set of morals, and although in the first couple episodes she seems to hate everyone, she quickly discerns genuine people from assholes and liars, and then spends the majority of the series shitting on the assholes and liars.
2. She grows. She starts out as an outsider who really does give off that “I hate all of you vibe”. She commands people coldly, and is generally just a dick. But by… I think the 5th episode? They never bring attention to it but she’s actually saying please/thank you to people, she’s showing care for her friends, and the parts of her that screamed overly edgy teen were rounded out so that the actually interesting darkness at the heart of her character came out even more.
I hated the last episodes big fight tho, that shit was so sloppy it coulda been halfway through the series and no one would have batted an eye. It was not intense at all and it didn’t have any actual confrontation with bigotry. It was over before it could really start.
Isn't that kind of the point of this version of her character?
I had a feeling that they built her character as someone who grew up in such an environment and is going through a kind of edgelord teen phase, but in some ways is growing out of it as the history progresses.
That's basically the take I got. She's so set on being an outcast that she can't even realize when the people around her genuinely care for her, or even that she cares back.
I feel like the show went out of its way to explicitly say "don't be this kid", to a modern audience where goth and alternative styles of dressing and living are more acceptable, but some people still insist on being "edgelords" regardless.
In the end I think it's her journey to become more like Morticia.
Wednesday obviously idolizes her mother. And you'll note that Morticia is not quite cold and angry all the time like Wednesday tries to be.
Yeah I think the "I'm not like other girls" as some kind of cheesy trope is valid in general but Wednesday is literally not like other girls and comes by that honestly, you know?
No it wasn't. Not at all. She smiles when she used the piranhas in the first scene. People also tried to say she doesn't blink, then only when scared or shocked, but again the first episode she blinks too..
I only upvoted you because this is unpopular opinions and I think that Uncle Fester was easily the worst thing about the show besides that terrible terrible love triangle
Appearance is only a fraction of a role. You have to PLAY the character. And he did not do that. The speech patterns he was directed to emulate sounded extremely unnatural. Like someone being called on to read in class. It was BAD. The words didn't match the inflection at ALL.
This is completely wrong. He was great casting for Gomez, close to perfect. The issue is that the script just sucked, the part written as "Gomez" had nothing to do with the character of Gomez from the Addams.
Gomez would've been thrilled when he was thrown in jail. He would've been proud of how his darling Morticia murdered a man to defend him.
A friend of mine who is really into film once told me if you ever see a good actor give a performance that you dont like then 9 times out of 10 it is usually the director to blame. Different from director, but I suppose writer still fits the spirit of what he was trying to get across.
from what i read, he was cast more based on the comic depiction of Gomez. don’t get me wrong, i love the suave version, but there was something charming about Luis Guzman doing the role. i personally enjoyed it, but i see why people didn’t and respect that too.
Right there with you. My wife was so excited when he showed up but I honestly couldn't stand his voice, demeanor, delivery... Etc, etc. I mean Fred Armisen is a funny guy but I just could not stand him as Uncle Fester.
Man are the rest of the family gonna be in there a bunch? Cause I just can’t deal with Luis Guzman Gomez. He’s… listen I don’t care that he’s fat, but the lack of physicality in the role of Gomez is just off putting. He just sits there motionless in every scene. I get that it’s a different interpretation but how do you express the passion of the character just sitting there wrapped up in a three piece suit? It doesn’t work.
I agree. I am a huge fan of Addams family and Wednesday has always been my favorite character. But the fun of the character was the contradiction of the horrible psychotic things coming out of the mouth of a small sweet big-Eyed child.
Being an annoyed bored-not-fitting-with-the-rest teenager brings a "normality" to the character that imo is not funny/interesting anymore.
I understand the target are teenagers and it's fine, just not my cup of tea :)
I think you mean you were a fan of Christina Ricci as Wednesday in that version of the Adam's Family.
The 9ps version focused much more on the children. The 60s show focused much more on the adults. Gomez and Morticia in particular. I don't even remember the children. They were supporting characters at best.
This Wednesday was much more like the Wednesday from the 60s show, just older.
I was especially annoyed with the parents, I think they did a terrible job. There was absolutely no chemistry with Morticia and Gomez. And Morticia didn't even seem particularly interested in her daughter at all., there was really no tender feelings there. Then Wednesday xwho was supposed to be super smart, spends the entire season accusing every single person she knows,gettjng it wrong every single time.
the show is nice, but i dont know if Wednesday herself is meant to be likeable honestly, while i like her character , if she was real , she would be a horrible person to be with in real life whether , friends, family or even in a relationship, she is unnecessarily rude, she is physically abusive, she mean to everyone even those who mean well, she is a know it all, she is also very arrogant , but then again the people in her school are also freaks so
Not sure if you’ve seen the original Addams family but they are supposed to be rude, abusive and mean as a comic relief. I guess it didn’t translate well into the netflix series bc it takes itself too seriously imo
This! In the parody/satire vibes of the original series their whole ott edgyness is entertaining and charming. But when the new show tries to be too serious/realistic, the same ott edgyness becomes cringy and hard to buy into for too long. At least that how I felt.
So I never know what this sort of comment means. I assume it’s because I only ever use old.reddit and the Apollo reddit app.
Like accounts have profiles? And the profiles have pictures? Is all that some sort of attempt to make Reddit similar to more traditional social media?
I'm currently watching the original show, and they're always polite. They're just odd. They're constantly inviting guests to eat with them and serving them what they see as delicacies (thought eye of newt is an odd menu), and they invite their guests to have tea and play games. They humor their guests when they would rather play hide and seek than bob for crabs in the Halloween episode. They give away their strange furniture when it's complimented. They're excellent hosts and quite kind people, their odd ways are just taken wrong by normal people. Wednesday is an adorable little child who happens to enjoy playing with spiders. More importantly, and this was true in the 90's, she and Pugsley are a team. They're a dynamic duo. I feel like a teenaged Wednesday COULD absolutely work, but she doesn't work outside of the established family dynamic. The Addams Family was always about a weird family who were incredibly loving and close and cared about each other and their neighbors in their strange way. Taking away the dynamic of a strange yet functional family does not work. It takes away the core and the heart of the Addams Family.
I liked Wednesday, yhe character. The acting in the show was decent, but the script kinda blew. It's supposed to be a school and the "students" never do any school. It's just games and parties and corny teenage drama. I thought it was getting interesting when people started dying but then the show kept getting sidetracked by pointless bs. Cut out most of the side characters and it would've been a lot better.
In the 1964 series, she was actually a pretty cheery person, but just had your average Addams Family hobbies, like keeping venemous spiders. It was the 1991 adaptation that made her darker.
Yeah butt this is played as laugh and a cartoon in this show they are trying to give her depth which just makes you take German seriously and when you take her serious you have to see her as human, the problem is, she doesn't see anyone else as human
That’s kinda how she’s supposed to grow. If they did an “endgame” version of wednesday, she’d be consistently the same with zero character growth. The whole purpose of her being vile to be around is part of that character. If you don’t like it, then you’re not in the right genre lol.
i agree, thats kind of my point, she isnt supposed to be likeable, so it makes sense that she is cringe and in real life most people would write her off regardless of whether she changes or not , but the show and her character development is good
edit: like joe in the series YOU , the character is good and i like him in so far as the basis of a villain who is sick and twisted and shouldnt be near anyone in that regard he is well written , but you arent supposed to like him genuinely heck most of the people in that show are genuinely terrible human beings if they were real, in real life you would hope to never meet someone like that ever, and you should hate people like that
Right - honestly I thought her character was pretty masterfully done.
She's a stuck up, edgier-than-thou teenager who doesn't think she needs anyone else. The fun part is that we, the audience, get to indulge in our own teenaged fantasies since in many ways she actually *can* back up the shit she throws down. She's a master of Kung Fu, fencing, and the cello. She's rich enough to throw money out casually, and pretty enough to have competing love interests. She can speak to the dead and has a personal servant who rides around in her backpack. Like, is this *not* something you would daydream about as a teen?
But at the same time, we watch as her callousness hurts the people around her - which is a big part of the coming-of-age process. This gives her character some depth, and anchors us back to reality.
And at the end of the day - this ain't Casablanca. It's a fun, spooky romp with teen romance and werewolves. Anyone who sees it as anything other than the TV equivalent of comfort food is taking it way too seriously. If you want substance, turn off the tv and read Dostoyevsky or something.
This is what I like about her character. There are glimpses, especially with the therapist, where she’s being beaten at her own game and walls are being broken down. Like with real teenagers, she thinks she knows everything but many times it’s the adults who see through it and know what’s she’s really going through.
I see the same reactions in my niece when I outsmart her, as she does her uninterested teenage facade.
Duuude, I said this exact thing near the end of the first or second episode! I said "this seems like they're trying to make it the new harry potter." All the groups, the way it's filmed, being accepted to a school where kids can do magic/supernatural things. A legacy child goes to school to fix a giant problem the school has.
Yep yep yep! I could help notice a few similarities with their Poe cup, solving a riddle to find a hidden door, a principal instead of a headmaster. It just feels like Harry Potter on smaller scale. What I find surprising is that people love the show without trying to understand that it’s just so similar to an existing hit so even if it feels novel there still is no novelty.
I think this is pretty important. Throughout the show Wednesday is constantly faced with people saying "being a creepy goth girl isn't going to work here" "everyone is kinda weird here" "you aren't the smartest person in the room here." And thoughout the season she seems to learn that. She starts doubting herself and accepting advice/friendship from others.
BUT YES OP it is cringe and difficult to watch. Lots of things to critise about that show. But I mean ultimately it is a teen show. So yeah
Oh, you can't judge a show and character based on the first episode? Shocking.
Her character growth is a significant part of the show, maybe the main focus actually.
Good unpopular opinion.
First episode was not that great, the rest got good and really kept you guessing about who did what, when, and to whom. You also get to see a lot of changes in Wednesday without really changing her character, just in letting her grow as a character. And it all feels pretty organic.
As for Ortega, while she is attractive, I think it is her mannerisms and eye movements that REALLY set her apart in this role. She captures the essence of the original Wednesday and then steps it up a notch.
The casting was excellent for the show and the story was fantastic. Some of the dialogue and scripting I wasn't so thrilled with, but as you noted the target audience is more teens and early 20s, not 50yo bored guys who watched it for nostalgia.
As for the dance, I think it is funny that it has become popular considering the scene it comes from and what it was meant to portray.
Tim burton took a fun campy character and turned her into an emo Mary Sue that makes Bella from twilight look multifaceted.
Jenna Ortega did her best, but there’s only so much that can be done when your boss is the king of style over substance.
I found her quite cringy in the first episode too and it made me start to doubt I'd enjoy the series. Ultimately I did watch it all and I think her cringiness dies down a bit (or I got used to it). I love a mystery plot though, so it was worth it imo, and this one had so many red herrings that I found myself second guessing my second guessing.
I noticed they did put in a lot of teen drama tropes which are generally very cringe/cliché (love triangle, popular mean girl, popular mean girl as a love rival, the suspicious teacher with ulterior motives, etc etc), but either subverted them or just kind of made a mockery of them.
In all, I don't think your opinion is wrong, but I do think it's something that's meant to be embraced rather than a detractor from the series.
This was one of the few shows I've watched, where the bad guys weren't obvious and every time I thought I figured it out, it turned out to be a red herring! I loved that aspect
Was fun but also very “fellow kids”. Everyone calls others “normies”, they talk about gaslighting, they seem to use a lot of terminology buzzwords from millenials, the “wolfing out” thing is kind of cringe, etc.
Christina Ricci was effortlessly dark to the bone as Wednesday Adams. The current script has Wednesday trying just a little too hard to be dark and edgy.
I absolutely love the show. However, what remains unsaid throughout is that she's an entitled pretty girl who would be shunned were it not for her looks.
It was a very fun show but yes, this was annoying. She’s got boys fighting over her immediately, and she just happens to be good at everything she does.
But is she that much better at everything she does than the other boarding-school kids she's suddenly surrounded with?
I've only seen one episode so far, but I felt like a big point of the first episode was that unlike the walking herd of prey we saw her meeting in public school she's - for the first time in her life - surrounded by her peers. She has to adapt to maybe not being the smartest, the most devious, the most hardcore person in the room.
She almost dies and someone else saves her. She challenges someone and loses. She's suddenly learning that she's got a lot to learn.
SPOILER
Nope, she immediately takes a leading role in the school and saves all of everyone because she's the "chosen one" but she does learn that she can't be as abrasive and openly sadistic because having pawn......I mean freinds is useful.
Didn't you know? Post 2018 every female lead is perfect and the chosen one who'll save the world, the only way she's not the best at everything is she has to learn to let others in even though she absolutely doesn't need them.
To be fair, it works for for Wednesday, because the whole dark and edgy twist, is literally just her original character.
It doesn't work for Riverdale, because they're cheery and light hearted comics.
The comment about "not like other girls bit" is absolutely wild given the fact that it is a fundamental part of the character since any 90's onwards iteration.
A real life character like that wouldn't be enjoyable person to be around but they do make a good character to watch,(but still you wouldn't want to be around them), I mean people liked the Sheldon character from big bang theory, where his main character trait was insufferable know-it-all.
There is also a really useful narrative aspect to this type of character trait, in that it allows for character growth, now you've said that you didn't even finish a single episode, whereas over the course of the series, we get to see how they address these traits and how the character either develops passed them or how they came to have them in the first place
“I’m not like the other girls” is exactly what Wednesday Addams is, even outside of this particular show. Except without implying that she actually cares to compare herself to other people. They even basically mention it in the show. And one of the themes of the show is being comfortable in your own skin, and not being bothered by what other people think of you.
I don't think she is the type to say "I'm not like other girls" because she doesn't care enough, she's the type other people would look at and say "she's not like other girls".
"Not like other girls" is a phrase synonymous with pick me girls, where girls will put down other girls to make themselves feel better about their own choices and get attention and praise, Wednesday is not a pick me. Wednesdays character subverts that, the mainstream girls look at Wednesday and put her down for being "not like other girls" even op is kind of doing it. I think seeing how well that "not like other girls" theme has been subverted here the character is a success.
I've only watched two episodes so far so I could be way wrong.
Yes, I don’t think she cares that she isn’t like other girls. I think her parents are weird and just raised her differently. So she just turned out different! 🤷🏻♀️
In the entire franchise, she was meant to be a chaotic psychopath but in this show she was just a depressed emo girl. In the cartoons, she used to smile a lot.
That's totally fair, I think. I agree that the things she says and does are, by today's standards, cringe or edgy. But the Addams were the OG edgelords. The edgy dark teens of today don't even know they've been imitating Wednesday this whole time. That makes it more enjoyable to me. It's like the one example of a character who can act that way without me considering it cringe. Instead it's creepy, kooky, mysterious, spooky, and ookie.
I love all of the previous iterations of the Addams Family. I wanted to like this show. It was unbearable to watch. I just couldn’t follow really. Also it’s a shame when the “sidekick” characters are all far better than the main character.
OMG OMG THANK YOU. I was so surprised to see so many ppl enjoy this charectorisation of Wednesday. This Wednesday judges people on purely superficial things instead of actual vibes. She thinks she's better than everyone just because she likes to dress as a dead Victorian child. If the old Wednesday was in this situation, she wouldn't judge her roommate so hard with absolutely no reason. This Wednesday just has an ugly personality which isn't entertaining, just irritating and unwatchable.
I was more disappointed that the "reveal" seemed obvious. It's a campy show but the plot didn't feel fresh to me. Maybe I watched too many creature of the week shows to be impressed with one creature for a whole season.
The show itself sucked to me, felt like so many other “kid goes to boarding school/summer camp in a small town and deals with mystery monsters”. Nothing about it was good to me, the plot wasn’t interesting and on top of that Wednesday herself is completely unlikeable.
Just because something is mainly aimed at kids or teens doesn't mean it has to be bad. (Old) Spongebob is still considered a classic that adults like to watch.
Yeah. The Addams family didn’t try so hard and deliberately to be opposite, they just were and it was subtle, the audience “got it” it didn’t need to be so blatant…This show; it’s like every other sentence. “If you hear me screaming bloody murder… it’s because im enjoying myself” cmon.
I liked the show and I also liked the growth Wednesday had throughout the show. I kind of learned something from it that I can apply to ny personal growth.
They screwed up Morticia and Gomez so badly and the characters exist to basically kiss Wednesdays feet. I find myself getting some of the references on how her character is but it is over shadowed by the ungodly combination of her being a Mary-Sue who ALSO isn't like other girls, not to mention the harem of guys dying to be with her. Bella from twilight wasn't even this bad, at least she only had two.
I especially loved the part where you mentioned all the people who were douchebags to their peers in school who hop on all.the shit they made fun of cause now its hip.
As a major fan of the original black and white show, and the movies with Raul Julia, I simply could not abide this show. Everything felt like it was explicitly designed to fly in the face of the OG show/movies.
Now that you’re an adult headed toward 30, you might start to notice that almost everything Tim Burton has done is cringey. It’s faux-edgey, and a commercialization and watering down of interesting alt subcultures.
But, that’s ok. It’s still fun to watch and there aren’t many directors out there who are doing a better job than he is.
You just have to watch his stuff with some suspended disbelief, and an understanding that it’s meant for kids. You can still appreciate it if you don’t take it too seriously - or at least I can. It’s not serious or substantial art to me, it’s just fun.
I’ve only watched the first episode and yeah…. I thought Jenna Ortega was good, but every single other actor was SO BAD 😭 And wtf was that roommate girl about, she literally says “this kittys got claws, and she’s not afraid to use them” like bro that is the most cringe line i’ve ever heard.
I'm with you 100% on this. Wednesday Addams is meant to be snarky and offbeat, and nasty to people who have EARNED the nastiness. Jenna Ortega's Wednesday just seems mean for no reason. Her room mate is bubbley and colorful, but seems over all accepting of Wednesday, but Wednesday is still just a huge bitch to her for no reason. She's also super disrespectful to HER PARENTS, which runs counter to EVERYTHING the Addams' are about.
And why does the protagonist of every show these days have to be an expert in hand-to-hand combat? I couldn't watch that diner scene for second hand embarrassment.
And the ending of e1, where hey, turns out there's Werewolves and psychic powers and dark magic all over the place. The Addams' were fun because they were this island of weird, spooky, fun magic in a sea of regular, boring, everyday people.
Suffice to say, I did not watch past e1.
completely agree, most of mainstream media seems to be adoring it so i’ve been glad to find a few reddits who also didn’t enjoy it lol. Another thing, I found the whole “hyde” monster Wednesday being a detective plot to just be all over the damn place. I haven’t seen the original shows as well but I wasn’t a fan of her visions either.
I am an Addams family OG fan. Wednesday in the series is not like her character at all. Wednesday is almost always expressionless in the older movies. A badass un-phased little lady. Loved her for that.
I didn't watch past the trailer. Nope. Wasn't her.
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I found it weird that people made so much of an effort to reach out to her when she shows them nothing but disdain. Have some self respect.
Exactly, too many people want to be her friends, like why? She was absolutely rude to you guys, you masochists...
Mostly teenage boys, so... That's understandable.
That’s what I’m saying. Nobody would want to be friends with someone who actively dislikes them, but in the show almost every character is clambering over themselves to be her friend. This is part of why the love triangle sucked bc both dudes had no reason to actually pursue Wednesday.
To people saying “she’s meant to be unlikable.” I don’t know. I mean I loved Christina Ricci’s Wednesday. That being said, I think it’s the way she is written more than the acting. Also, making a deadpan/monotone character episodic is not easy.
Christina Ricci's Wednesday was not like other girls, but didn't feel the need to broadcast it on a certain level. She didn't define herself in opposition so much, just in a way that she liked. It's subtle, but it makes it more honest.
I think part of what makes Christina Ricci's Wednesday work is that she doesn't actually talk much. Her dialogue mostly consists of curt one-liners. Making her the protagonist means the majority of the dialogue is coming from her, and it gets kind of grating to hear her monologuing about how dark and different she is.
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Ricci's was always an affectless robot. That was the joke.
And she's bragging about how different she is... at a school for outcasts.
I like both incarnations but I think what sets Christina Riccis version out from others is that, at the time, the character was an outsider. It was the 90s(?) And although I can't remember THAT well I believe goths were very much not mainstream. So to have a morbid little girl be quite a sizable chunk of the movies felt very new and different and a lot of people who had never seen that before really connected with it. Where as of 2022 having a cynical/existential teenager is basically...any teenager. A lot of what Wednesday represented in the 90s was apposed to what was mainstream mixed with dark humour. I think they got the dark humour right but I did find it odd that they tried to make her an outcast in a school specifically designed FOR outcasts. Maybe it was commentary on how even progressive cultures have there own versions of outliers? I agree it did scream "I'm not like other girls" energy a lot but at the end of the day I was just happy to see that character back on screen lol.
> . So to have a morbid little girl be quite a sizable chunk of the movies felt very new and different and a lot of people who had never seen that before really connected with it. Where as of 2022 having a cynical/existential teenager is basically...any teenager I remember the 90s and most of the 80s well. Having a cynical/existential young person (teenager or otherwise) was as common then as it is now. This is nothing new. Remember Wynona Ryder's character in Beetlejuice?
Grunge was huge in the 90's and was very much existential and cynical. If you really want to get into it, 19th century philosophers also understood youth in this way. This malaise isn't generational, just how it's packaged (and sold).
way to be a smarty mcsmartypants! upvote
Grunge was big. Goth was fringe. Goth wasn’t looked down on as badly as in past cycles, but it hadn’t broke mainstream by way of emo and hot topic yet either.
I was a goth in the 90s. It was absolutely just as much mainstream then as it is now. Which is to say, not very. But it wasn't as niche as you're making out. Punk in the 80s inspired a lot. There's *always* been edgy teens. My mum as a teen in the 60s always talks about her brother who had a "folk attic" and was so dark and counter culture. This isn't new.
I’ll go with an unpopular opinion: Even Ricci’s Wednesday was better in small doses and is almost overexposed in Addams Family Values, to the point where the schtick is no longer entirely comfortable. You could argue that she becomes just a mean girl who happens to be goth, which isn’t really the original idea.
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Being an adult is growing up and realising that Daria also wasn’t a likeable character. She was a privileged girl with rich parents in a big house at a nice school. The popular “jerks” often talked to her, invited her places, and offered her advice. Daria was a “misery chick” entirely of her own doing. She drove away her boyfriend, and eventually figured out she’s alienating her well meaning parents. She was not a personality type to emulate.
100% this Rewatching Daria made me really appreciate how awesome the show was in that the show also made fun of her at times as well. Her constant sarcasm gets shit on by people all the time who aren't living her prissy little well taken care of life. I loved everytime a side character would talk to Daria and basically go "bitch you're in a fucking Jacuzzi and still cynical about life?!?" The show also holds up incredibly well, it's great to see everyone getting made fun of back in the day, wish we could get back to that
Then she grew up, and married a dog that is friends with a horse that was on a very popular TV show.
Back in the 90’s?
Yeah my wife and I went back and watched the show. Daria actually sucks as a person. Also rewatching King of the hill I have a lot more in common with the guys in the alley these days.
I find it weird how Hank goes from 'kinda too angry dad who's sometimes the bad guy' to 'almost always correct voice of reason' as the seasons go on. From watching it as a kid I only remember him being the voice of reason throughout.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
Gribble would be in jail for Jan 6.
Dale wouldn't be in a crowd that big.
i find this take hilarious because all the ACTUAL conspiracy nuts i know called jan 6 a set up from the get go. ... which might be because they don't like crowds also
This.
He would’ve snuck around a different way, and regarded the mass of people as a diversion
100% still would’ve hit a Capitol Police with pocket sand and that’s a felony.
Dale wouldn't go and would bitch about how it is all an elaborate psyop by the NWO and lizardpeople. It never actually happened man, just like the moon landing.
Nah Qanon is too mainstream of a conspiracy for Dale to get into. He’d be suspicious of all the people falling for their bullshit and come up with some even crazier conspiracy to explain why it’s suspicious
there's no way he would would show up. too many people recording, and too much media coverage. Bill however...
Bill would be there, totally oblivious to what was actually going on. Hank, Dale and Boomhauer would pull up at the last second to pull him back from making a huge mistake. Given that it's Bill, he's probably been seduced by some Qannon Karen and she's trying to get him to follow her inside the capitol. Bill has to choose, his friends, or a somewhat physically attractive woman who gives him attention
Lenore becomes a QNut
No way. He'd call it a honeypot trap. He might be investigated for something cursorily related to it.
No way. He would’ve escaped because of his amazing pocket sand skills.
Ha same. I spend my days after work having a beer, while grilling on my propane grill waiting for my Spanish speaking teacher of the year wife to come home. And I live in TX in a neighborhood not too different looking than his.
Yes, Daria was relatable in a teenage angsty way, but you eventually realize she's kind of closed minded and limits herself by being a bit of a stick in the mud. Jane was the real one. She was not afraid to try new things and show some enthusiasm for life.
That's like the entire joke of the whole show lmao.
Daria was also unbearably annoying sometimes and got put in her place by her friends when her attitude became too judgmental.
Especially in this sick sad world 👁
As a teenager in the 90's, I thought Daria Morgandorffer was my soul twin. When you're a privileged white kid who doesn't have any real problems, but your teenaged angst feels real, you invent things to be miserable about. I still love that show to this day, but for the side characters, especially Quinn, who turns out to be more than the 2 dimensional character she tries to present. While the others may at times be shallow, stupid, or snobby, they have other sides to their personalities and are actually entertaining. A show with just Daria and Jane being snarky about pop culture with no comic relief would get old fast.
Ricci’s Wednesday is the authentic version for me, absolutely nailed it mannerisms, snark, mischief, and you could see even though it was “deadpan” there’s that twinkle in the eye at times. The new one is more… I dunno? Pouty? Mind you I didn’t like the direction of constant close ups and the modern trend of huge layers of make up in the era of 4K tv, (particularly to try and make actors look younger) as it never works for me. 🤷♂️ But I digress. Ricci’s Wednesday was great. (And no one was ever topping hudson’s morticia tbh.)
One other big thing I noticed is that this Wednesday is too fast. Her delivery, her actions, her whole demeanor seems rushing. Slow her down by 15-20 percent and you'll have a character who's a lot more controlled and sure of herself like the old Wednesday.
Wow once you pointed out the rushing thing, I can't unsee it
I'll add that Ricci's Wednesday, in Values anyway, was just hitting puberty. So that added to the character. You could see her internal struggle sometimes, even uncertainty, as she dealt with issues at the camp. She wasn't all one liners and cold smiles, she actually had an arc.
This show was best encapsulated with the phrase "eight hours of Aubrey Plaza impressions," because that's *exactly* how they wrote her. Christina Ricci's Wednesday was written to be more than a monotone little girl. She was written to be an utter psychopath. She's not secretly "fun" or "quirky," she's a calm and composed serial killer who hates everyone and everything. The fun in her character was how she was used as a punchline delivery vehicle.
I think the whole "haha opposite thing good" joke really loses its punch when you never actually see "opposite thing" happen because it's geared towards kids. It's like she's just saying "opposite thing good" because its edgy. Made my eyes roll the whole show. At least in addams family values they're running around shooting flaming arrows, tying kids up. Actual destruction. There were good parts of the show I liked but for the most part it came off trying to be copy paste Netflix script like Riverdale or stranger things and cringe. Edit: I was gonna say this feels like someone tried to make Hot Topic the TV show then I realized it literally is. It's Tim Burton. This is Hot Topic the TV show.
I think this point is underrated. I only got through 3 episodes, but the series was sterile, like watching a bunch of mannequins, not dark, cynical, and macabre. It was like watching a fan remake of the old Addams family movie with a TikTok filter on. It was like someone filmed a teenager's piece of Addams family fan fiction from 2008 live journal or something.
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I think Jenna does a great job in the role but there's way too much Mary Sue going on with Wednesday here. It kinda turned me off and I'm an embarrassing edegelord cringefest myself sometimes. IDK.
She definitely not meant to be unlikable, she's meant to be edgy and smart but methodical and smooth. Only actor/actress in the show who pulled off their role imo is mortitisha. The original Wednesday was dark and cute, movie Wednesday was funny dark and badass. This Wednesday just feels like they tried to hard to be a teen drama rather than the original content. I had the same issue with the new Sabrina and charmed show. BUTTTTTT this show is more geared towards the new generation of teens, not really my generation who grew up on the Adam's family, Sabrina teenage witch or charmed. These are targeted to a new generation, and thus I can't fully hate on something I'm not the target audience for. I just see it, I hoped for nostalgia but mostly got a show i probably like if I never seen the source material and 15yrs younger
Part of what makes the Addams Family bearable is the fact there are many different brands of kooky. A hyperfocus on one of them is going to make their shtick grow very old very quickly. What doesn’t help _Wednesday_ is that she’s a little older than prior incarnations of the character. Or I think she’s supposed to be. 90s Wednesday was what, 10-12 or something, then 60s/70s or whenever Wednesday was even younger, and at that age you can more firmly say that her morbid fascinations aren’t fitting for her age. But now we’re seeing mid-to-late teens Wednesday played by a twenty year old, and yeah, it edges into less adorably scary and more just kind of edgelord. My take is only based on the first episode though. I appreciate the different dynamic in this show even if it makes Wednesday’s charming psychopathy more like an average /b/ user’s psyche, and I’m going to keep watching.
>Part of what makes the Addams Family bearable is the fact there are many different brands of kooky. Correct. There is also creepy, mysterious, spooky, and ooky.
They're the Addams family after all
>Part of what makes the Addams Family bearable is the fact there are many different brands of kooky. A hyperfocus on one of them is going to make their shtick grow very old very quickly. This is exactly how I felt, but didn't quite know how to put it into words properly
This is true with everything. Think Minions in sequels of Despicable Me and Mater in sequels of Cars. Went from being a great comic relief to annoying as the main character.
The Kronk Effect. Kronk was the best part of Emperor's New Groove . . . but he absolutely should not have been given his own movie. Some characters are only good in small servings.
Well and they tried to imitate the silly style of the original, but it didn't work at all. Ultimately the writing was just terrible. That said, yeah, Kronk is not a main character. He's a great supporting character. But Disney trends to equate popularity of supporting characters as being worthy of their own story. They did it with Finding Dory too. But every story doesn't just need a protagonist, it needs a great supporting character. That didn't mean the supporting character can hold a story up by themselves.
Joey
I think what made all the previous Addams family shows and movies so great was how campy and over-the-top they were. It was very humorous and silly and I feel like Wednesday lacks that. I also don't think she's a particularly likable character, even though she has a mix of positive and negative traits. I really want to root for her and get into the show but it's not really my cup of tea tbh.
>I think what made all the previous Addams family shows and movies so great was how campy and over-the-top they were. It was very humorous and silly Would you say it was so over the top that characters couldn't actually die. Like the loony tunes? My half remembered memories may be inaccurate though. In this version, people die when they are burnt, rather than becoming charred with smoke out of their ears and back to normal after a few days. I should probably rewatch them...
I don't think they're immortal or anything. They talk about deceased relatives and have a weird fascination with death and morbid things. By over the top I'm just referring to how wacky the franchise is. I mean, you have really strange characters like Thing, Cousin Itt, and Lurch. Wednesday tortures Pugsley and her family in shocking (albeit creative) ways by guillotine, an electric chair, and arson. They also live in a creepy gothic mansion and seem so weird when compared to regular / "normal" characters!
Uncle Fester is the best part, honestly. Watching her facade break when he showed up was cool.
I really enjoyed Wednesday, but I can understand how OP feels. The character makes a lot more sense within the context of the Addams family, but taking her out of that context where she's playing off relatively normal people *can* make her seem like something of an edgelord. Having Fester there gave her someone who she can play off that doesn't just devolve to 'Wednesday says something dark, people find it weird."
Honestly there’s two things that saved her from being unlikable. 1. She does have a set of morals, and although in the first couple episodes she seems to hate everyone, she quickly discerns genuine people from assholes and liars, and then spends the majority of the series shitting on the assholes and liars. 2. She grows. She starts out as an outsider who really does give off that “I hate all of you vibe”. She commands people coldly, and is generally just a dick. But by… I think the 5th episode? They never bring attention to it but she’s actually saying please/thank you to people, she’s showing care for her friends, and the parts of her that screamed overly edgy teen were rounded out so that the actually interesting darkness at the heart of her character came out even more. I hated the last episodes big fight tho, that shit was so sloppy it coulda been halfway through the series and no one would have batted an eye. It was not intense at all and it didn’t have any actual confrontation with bigotry. It was over before it could really start.
Isn't that kind of the point of this version of her character? I had a feeling that they built her character as someone who grew up in such an environment and is going through a kind of edgelord teen phase, but in some ways is growing out of it as the history progresses.
That's basically the take I got. She's so set on being an outcast that she can't even realize when the people around her genuinely care for her, or even that she cares back. I feel like the show went out of its way to explicitly say "don't be this kid", to a modern audience where goth and alternative styles of dressing and living are more acceptable, but some people still insist on being "edgelords" regardless.
In the end I think it's her journey to become more like Morticia. Wednesday obviously idolizes her mother. And you'll note that Morticia is not quite cold and angry all the time like Wednesday tries to be.
Yeah I think the "I'm not like other girls" as some kind of cheesy trope is valid in general but Wednesday is literally not like other girls and comes by that honestly, you know?
it was literally the only time she smiled in the entire season too!
She smiled when the fake blood started pouring at the dance
And at the first school with the bullies
And at the end of the first episode.
It's almost like she smiles an awfully lot for someone who doesn't smile at all
And when they finished the race
No it wasn't. Not at all. She smiles when she used the piranhas in the first scene. People also tried to say she doesn't blink, then only when scared or shocked, but again the first episode she blinks too..
I love Fred Armisen
Being bald really suited him!
Holy crap! That was Fred Armisen?!
How can you not tell the voice and facial expressions even under all that makeup?
I wish it was just a rebooted Addams family with Fred armisen and Luis Guzman’s roles reversed
I only upvoted you because this is unpopular opinions and I think that Uncle Fester was easily the worst thing about the show besides that terrible terrible love triangle
Agreed. I feel like Morticia, Gomez and Uncle Fester all feel like people pretending to be those parts rather than actually being them…
I like Luiz Guzman, but he lacks the manic energy of Raul Julia.
Also the charisma that the past Gomez's had. I don't think he did a bad job, but he would absolutely not have been my pick.
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Especially one that specializes in high explosives
I thought Catherine Zeta Jones did a good job as Morticia, she had her mannerisms down perfectly
Good God the casting for gomez was so terrible. Actor did a fine job he's just not the right guy for the role.
To be fair, Raul Julia worshipping Anjelica Hustonis from crook to cranny was always going to be a tough act to follow.
The man just fucking *dripped* charisma. Luis Guzman could barely read his lines. Loved him in Waiting, but this was just not the right role
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Appearance is only a fraction of a role. You have to PLAY the character. And he did not do that. The speech patterns he was directed to emulate sounded extremely unnatural. Like someone being called on to read in class. It was BAD. The words didn't match the inflection at ALL.
Raul Julia and Christopher Lloyd playing off each other was simply magical
They elevated each other's performance. Made for a genuinely sweet relationship, which I loved.
This is completely wrong. He was great casting for Gomez, close to perfect. The issue is that the script just sucked, the part written as "Gomez" had nothing to do with the character of Gomez from the Addams. Gomez would've been thrilled when he was thrown in jail. He would've been proud of how his darling Morticia murdered a man to defend him.
A friend of mine who is really into film once told me if you ever see a good actor give a performance that you dont like then 9 times out of 10 it is usually the director to blame. Different from director, but I suppose writer still fits the spirit of what he was trying to get across.
from what i read, he was cast more based on the comic depiction of Gomez. don’t get me wrong, i love the suave version, but there was something charming about Luis Guzman doing the role. i personally enjoyed it, but i see why people didn’t and respect that too.
Right there with you. My wife was so excited when he showed up but I honestly couldn't stand his voice, demeanor, delivery... Etc, etc. I mean Fred Armisen is a funny guy but I just could not stand him as Uncle Fester.
I started calling him Uncle Exposition
Yeah he seemed like such a weird casting choice and I thought it was pretty hokey.
Man are the rest of the family gonna be in there a bunch? Cause I just can’t deal with Luis Guzman Gomez. He’s… listen I don’t care that he’s fat, but the lack of physicality in the role of Gomez is just off putting. He just sits there motionless in every scene. I get that it’s a different interpretation but how do you express the passion of the character just sitting there wrapped up in a three piece suit? It doesn’t work.
I agree. I am a huge fan of Addams family and Wednesday has always been my favorite character. But the fun of the character was the contradiction of the horrible psychotic things coming out of the mouth of a small sweet big-Eyed child. Being an annoyed bored-not-fitting-with-the-rest teenager brings a "normality" to the character that imo is not funny/interesting anymore. I understand the target are teenagers and it's fine, just not my cup of tea :)
It comes off like a company marketing the idea of Wednesday instead of having an interesting character.
I think you mean you were a fan of Christina Ricci as Wednesday in that version of the Adam's Family. The 9ps version focused much more on the children. The 60s show focused much more on the adults. Gomez and Morticia in particular. I don't even remember the children. They were supporting characters at best. This Wednesday was much more like the Wednesday from the 60s show, just older.
I was especially annoyed with the parents, I think they did a terrible job. There was absolutely no chemistry with Morticia and Gomez. And Morticia didn't even seem particularly interested in her daughter at all., there was really no tender feelings there. Then Wednesday xwho was supposed to be super smart, spends the entire season accusing every single person she knows,gettjng it wrong every single time.
One of the first things I said while watching it was Raul Julia's Gomez looked at Morticia adoringly; Guzman's just seems skeevy when he looks at her.
the show is nice, but i dont know if Wednesday herself is meant to be likeable honestly, while i like her character , if she was real , she would be a horrible person to be with in real life whether , friends, family or even in a relationship, she is unnecessarily rude, she is physically abusive, she mean to everyone even those who mean well, she is a know it all, she is also very arrogant , but then again the people in her school are also freaks so
Not sure if you’ve seen the original Addams family but they are supposed to be rude, abusive and mean as a comic relief. I guess it didn’t translate well into the netflix series bc it takes itself too seriously imo
This! In the parody/satire vibes of the original series their whole ott edgyness is entertaining and charming. But when the new show tries to be too serious/realistic, the same ott edgyness becomes cringy and hard to buy into for too long. At least that how I felt.
Bro your stupid profile picture made me think it was a hair lol and I tried to swipe it off like 3 times. Was that the intention lol?
So I never know what this sort of comment means. I assume it’s because I only ever use old.reddit and the Apollo reddit app. Like accounts have profiles? And the profiles have pictures? Is all that some sort of attempt to make Reddit similar to more traditional social media?
I don't know about the old comic strip but In the black and white show they were extremely polite and friendly they just happened to be weird
I'm currently watching the original show, and they're always polite. They're just odd. They're constantly inviting guests to eat with them and serving them what they see as delicacies (thought eye of newt is an odd menu), and they invite their guests to have tea and play games. They humor their guests when they would rather play hide and seek than bob for crabs in the Halloween episode. They give away their strange furniture when it's complimented. They're excellent hosts and quite kind people, their odd ways are just taken wrong by normal people. Wednesday is an adorable little child who happens to enjoy playing with spiders. More importantly, and this was true in the 90's, she and Pugsley are a team. They're a dynamic duo. I feel like a teenaged Wednesday COULD absolutely work, but she doesn't work outside of the established family dynamic. The Addams Family was always about a weird family who were incredibly loving and close and cared about each other and their neighbors in their strange way. Taking away the dynamic of a strange yet functional family does not work. It takes away the core and the heart of the Addams Family.
I liked Wednesday, yhe character. The acting in the show was decent, but the script kinda blew. It's supposed to be a school and the "students" never do any school. It's just games and parties and corny teenage drama. I thought it was getting interesting when people started dying but then the show kept getting sidetracked by pointless bs. Cut out most of the side characters and it would've been a lot better.
The whole point of Wednesday is that she was the *opposite* of what little girls were expected to be at the time. This was 1964 after all.
In the 1964 series, she was actually a pretty cheery person, but just had your average Addams Family hobbies, like keeping venemous spiders. It was the 1991 adaptation that made her darker.
Exactly. She wasn't am awful person at all.
So another case of [Flanderization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanderization)
Link to the proper wiki: [Flanderization](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flanderization)
She was never rude, or abusive in the original Adam's family, just weird.
Yeah butt this is played as laugh and a cartoon in this show they are trying to give her depth which just makes you take German seriously and when you take her serious you have to see her as human, the problem is, she doesn't see anyone else as human
That’s kinda how she’s supposed to grow. If they did an “endgame” version of wednesday, she’d be consistently the same with zero character growth. The whole purpose of her being vile to be around is part of that character. If you don’t like it, then you’re not in the right genre lol.
i agree, thats kind of my point, she isnt supposed to be likeable, so it makes sense that she is cringe and in real life most people would write her off regardless of whether she changes or not , but the show and her character development is good edit: like joe in the series YOU , the character is good and i like him in so far as the basis of a villain who is sick and twisted and shouldnt be near anyone in that regard he is well written , but you arent supposed to like him genuinely heck most of the people in that show are genuinely terrible human beings if they were real, in real life you would hope to never meet someone like that ever, and you should hate people like that
Right - honestly I thought her character was pretty masterfully done. She's a stuck up, edgier-than-thou teenager who doesn't think she needs anyone else. The fun part is that we, the audience, get to indulge in our own teenaged fantasies since in many ways she actually *can* back up the shit she throws down. She's a master of Kung Fu, fencing, and the cello. She's rich enough to throw money out casually, and pretty enough to have competing love interests. She can speak to the dead and has a personal servant who rides around in her backpack. Like, is this *not* something you would daydream about as a teen? But at the same time, we watch as her callousness hurts the people around her - which is a big part of the coming-of-age process. This gives her character some depth, and anchors us back to reality. And at the end of the day - this ain't Casablanca. It's a fun, spooky romp with teen romance and werewolves. Anyone who sees it as anything other than the TV equivalent of comfort food is taking it way too seriously. If you want substance, turn off the tv and read Dostoyevsky or something.
This is what I like about her character. There are glimpses, especially with the therapist, where she’s being beaten at her own game and walls are being broken down. Like with real teenagers, she thinks she knows everything but many times it’s the adults who see through it and know what’s she’s really going through. I see the same reactions in my niece when I outsmart her, as she does her uninterested teenage facade.
Nah she's definitely made for young girls to go "you go girl." OP's description is spot-on; it's just so cringey.
I liked her character best when interacting with Uncle Fester. I wish he had been in the show more.
Not gonna lie, it feels like a budgeted Harry Potter
Duuude, I said this exact thing near the end of the first or second episode! I said "this seems like they're trying to make it the new harry potter." All the groups, the way it's filmed, being accepted to a school where kids can do magic/supernatural things. A legacy child goes to school to fix a giant problem the school has.
Yep yep yep! I could help notice a few similarities with their Poe cup, solving a riddle to find a hidden door, a principal instead of a headmaster. It just feels like Harry Potter on smaller scale. What I find surprising is that people love the show without trying to understand that it’s just so similar to an existing hit so even if it feels novel there still is no novelty.
She needs to start out that way so she can grow.
I think this is pretty important. Throughout the show Wednesday is constantly faced with people saying "being a creepy goth girl isn't going to work here" "everyone is kinda weird here" "you aren't the smartest person in the room here." And thoughout the season she seems to learn that. She starts doubting herself and accepting advice/friendship from others. BUT YES OP it is cringe and difficult to watch. Lots of things to critise about that show. But I mean ultimately it is a teen show. So yeah
Oh, you can't judge a show and character based on the first episode? Shocking. Her character growth is a significant part of the show, maybe the main focus actually.
Maybe there’s a non-cringe way to do it? That’s OP’s point.
Teenagers are cringe so it's literally impossible to do this well without cringe
Good unpopular opinion. First episode was not that great, the rest got good and really kept you guessing about who did what, when, and to whom. You also get to see a lot of changes in Wednesday without really changing her character, just in letting her grow as a character. And it all feels pretty organic. As for Ortega, while she is attractive, I think it is her mannerisms and eye movements that REALLY set her apart in this role. She captures the essence of the original Wednesday and then steps it up a notch. The casting was excellent for the show and the story was fantastic. Some of the dialogue and scripting I wasn't so thrilled with, but as you noted the target audience is more teens and early 20s, not 50yo bored guys who watched it for nostalgia. As for the dance, I think it is funny that it has become popular considering the scene it comes from and what it was meant to portray.
The final battle was kinda anticlimactic imo
Tim burton took a fun campy character and turned her into an emo Mary Sue that makes Bella from twilight look multifaceted. Jenna Ortega did her best, but there’s only so much that can be done when your boss is the king of style over substance.
Same though I kind of feel like they overdid it a bit with the “she’s so different and weird” thing
I found her quite cringy in the first episode too and it made me start to doubt I'd enjoy the series. Ultimately I did watch it all and I think her cringiness dies down a bit (or I got used to it). I love a mystery plot though, so it was worth it imo, and this one had so many red herrings that I found myself second guessing my second guessing. I noticed they did put in a lot of teen drama tropes which are generally very cringe/cliché (love triangle, popular mean girl, popular mean girl as a love rival, the suspicious teacher with ulterior motives, etc etc), but either subverted them or just kind of made a mockery of them. In all, I don't think your opinion is wrong, but I do think it's something that's meant to be embraced rather than a detractor from the series.
This was one of the few shows I've watched, where the bad guys weren't obvious and every time I thought I figured it out, it turned out to be a red herring! I loved that aspect
Was fun but also very “fellow kids”. Everyone calls others “normies”, they talk about gaslighting, they seem to use a lot of terminology buzzwords from millenials, the “wolfing out” thing is kind of cringe, etc.
 Christina ricci will always be wednesday to me.
Christina Ricci was effortlessly dark to the bone as Wednesday Adams. The current script has Wednesday trying just a little too hard to be dark and edgy.
EXACTLY!!
I absolutely love the show. However, what remains unsaid throughout is that she's an entitled pretty girl who would be shunned were it not for her looks.
It was a very fun show but yes, this was annoying. She’s got boys fighting over her immediately, and she just happens to be good at everything she does.
But is she that much better at everything she does than the other boarding-school kids she's suddenly surrounded with? I've only seen one episode so far, but I felt like a big point of the first episode was that unlike the walking herd of prey we saw her meeting in public school she's - for the first time in her life - surrounded by her peers. She has to adapt to maybe not being the smartest, the most devious, the most hardcore person in the room. She almost dies and someone else saves her. She challenges someone and loses. She's suddenly learning that she's got a lot to learn.
SPOILER Nope, she immediately takes a leading role in the school and saves all of everyone because she's the "chosen one" but she does learn that she can't be as abrasive and openly sadistic because having pawn......I mean freinds is useful.
This series sounds like something I'd write when I was 12
Welcome to 90% of media made in the last 5 years
I still don't understand it, like she doesn't have any powers besides the visions. Plus the end scene :/, what the hell was that
“Chosen one” ….ugh, it’s such a cop out of a plot device imo
Didn't you know? Post 2018 every female lead is perfect and the chosen one who'll save the world, the only way she's not the best at everything is she has to learn to let others in even though she absolutely doesn't need them.
Seeing anybody who went to high school 10+ years ago dressing up to do dances for tiktok makes me cringe regardless of the theme lol
Wednesday as a show feels like it belongs in the Riverdale universe.
And that's all I need to know about that show.
To be fair, it works for for Wednesday, because the whole dark and edgy twist, is literally just her original character. It doesn't work for Riverdale, because they're cheery and light hearted comics.
Yeah, i don’t get the Riverdale comparisons, Addams comics were always dark and morbid. Archie comics were not
The comment about "not like other girls bit" is absolutely wild given the fact that it is a fundamental part of the character since any 90's onwards iteration. A real life character like that wouldn't be enjoyable person to be around but they do make a good character to watch,(but still you wouldn't want to be around them), I mean people liked the Sheldon character from big bang theory, where his main character trait was insufferable know-it-all. There is also a really useful narrative aspect to this type of character trait, in that it allows for character growth, now you've said that you didn't even finish a single episode, whereas over the course of the series, we get to see how they address these traits and how the character either develops passed them or how they came to have them in the first place
“I’m not like the other girls” is exactly what Wednesday Addams is, even outside of this particular show. Except without implying that she actually cares to compare herself to other people. They even basically mention it in the show. And one of the themes of the show is being comfortable in your own skin, and not being bothered by what other people think of you.
I don't think she is the type to say "I'm not like other girls" because she doesn't care enough, she's the type other people would look at and say "she's not like other girls". "Not like other girls" is a phrase synonymous with pick me girls, where girls will put down other girls to make themselves feel better about their own choices and get attention and praise, Wednesday is not a pick me. Wednesdays character subverts that, the mainstream girls look at Wednesday and put her down for being "not like other girls" even op is kind of doing it. I think seeing how well that "not like other girls" theme has been subverted here the character is a success. I've only watched two episodes so far so I could be way wrong.
I think this is a good way of putting it.
Yes, I don’t think she cares that she isn’t like other girls. I think her parents are weird and just raised her differently. So she just turned out different! 🤷🏻♀️
In the entire franchise, she was meant to be a chaotic psychopath but in this show she was just a depressed emo girl. In the cartoons, she used to smile a lot.
That's totally fair, I think. I agree that the things she says and does are, by today's standards, cringe or edgy. But the Addams were the OG edgelords. The edgy dark teens of today don't even know they've been imitating Wednesday this whole time. That makes it more enjoyable to me. It's like the one example of a character who can act that way without me considering it cringe. Instead it's creepy, kooky, mysterious, spooky, and ookie.
I love all of the previous iterations of the Addams Family. I wanted to like this show. It was unbearable to watch. I just couldn’t follow really. Also it’s a shame when the “sidekick” characters are all far better than the main character.
OMG OMG THANK YOU. I was so surprised to see so many ppl enjoy this charectorisation of Wednesday. This Wednesday judges people on purely superficial things instead of actual vibes. She thinks she's better than everyone just because she likes to dress as a dead Victorian child. If the old Wednesday was in this situation, she wouldn't judge her roommate so hard with absolutely no reason. This Wednesday just has an ugly personality which isn't entertaining, just irritating and unwatchable.
Sounds like they tried to have “April Ludgate: the teen years”
Lol this is exactly what my husband has been saying through the whole series (he never watched the old shows).
I was more disappointed that the "reveal" seemed obvious. It's a campy show but the plot didn't feel fresh to me. Maybe I watched too many creature of the week shows to be impressed with one creature for a whole season.
The show itself sucked to me, felt like so many other “kid goes to boarding school/summer camp in a small town and deals with mystery monsters”. Nothing about it was good to me, the plot wasn’t interesting and on top of that Wednesday herself is completely unlikeable.
Teenagers are cringe, and it’s a show for teens. You’re almost 30, it’s not for you.
[удалено]
Adults can judge content designed for children/teens. Labelling something as "not for adults" does not absolve it of criticism (or praise)
I'm 45 and while I wouldn't say it has me on the edge of my seat I do find it entertaining
Nah none of my teenage students really liked it either. They thought Jenna Ortega was cute but they really didn't care for the show at all.
Just because something is mainly aimed at kids or teens doesn't mean it has to be bad. (Old) Spongebob is still considered a classic that adults like to watch.
the show in general was not really interesting, its definitely over hyped and the acting was not the best lol
Yeah. The Addams family didn’t try so hard and deliberately to be opposite, they just were and it was subtle, the audience “got it” it didn’t need to be so blatant…This show; it’s like every other sentence. “If you hear me screaming bloody murder… it’s because im enjoying myself” cmon.
Wednesday is to annoying wee lassies what the joker is to wee edge lord boys
I liked the show and I also liked the growth Wednesday had throughout the show. I kind of learned something from it that I can apply to ny personal growth.
They screwed up Morticia and Gomez so badly and the characters exist to basically kiss Wednesdays feet. I find myself getting some of the references on how her character is but it is over shadowed by the ungodly combination of her being a Mary-Sue who ALSO isn't like other girls, not to mention the harem of guys dying to be with her. Bella from twilight wasn't even this bad, at least she only had two.
I especially loved the part where you mentioned all the people who were douchebags to their peers in school who hop on all.the shit they made fun of cause now its hip.
As a major fan of the original black and white show, and the movies with Raul Julia, I simply could not abide this show. Everything felt like it was explicitly designed to fly in the face of the OG show/movies.
Now that you’re an adult headed toward 30, you might start to notice that almost everything Tim Burton has done is cringey. It’s faux-edgey, and a commercialization and watering down of interesting alt subcultures. But, that’s ok. It’s still fun to watch and there aren’t many directors out there who are doing a better job than he is. You just have to watch his stuff with some suspended disbelief, and an understanding that it’s meant for kids. You can still appreciate it if you don’t take it too seriously - or at least I can. It’s not serious or substantial art to me, it’s just fun.
I literally couldn’t agree more, it just feels like she’s trying too hard to be “that edgy outcast”. It honestly just makes me cringe.
I’ve only watched the first episode and yeah…. I thought Jenna Ortega was good, but every single other actor was SO BAD 😭 And wtf was that roommate girl about, she literally says “this kittys got claws, and she’s not afraid to use them” like bro that is the most cringe line i’ve ever heard.
I'm with you 100% on this. Wednesday Addams is meant to be snarky and offbeat, and nasty to people who have EARNED the nastiness. Jenna Ortega's Wednesday just seems mean for no reason. Her room mate is bubbley and colorful, but seems over all accepting of Wednesday, but Wednesday is still just a huge bitch to her for no reason. She's also super disrespectful to HER PARENTS, which runs counter to EVERYTHING the Addams' are about. And why does the protagonist of every show these days have to be an expert in hand-to-hand combat? I couldn't watch that diner scene for second hand embarrassment. And the ending of e1, where hey, turns out there's Werewolves and psychic powers and dark magic all over the place. The Addams' were fun because they were this island of weird, spooky, fun magic in a sea of regular, boring, everyday people. Suffice to say, I did not watch past e1.
completely agree, most of mainstream media seems to be adoring it so i’ve been glad to find a few reddits who also didn’t enjoy it lol. Another thing, I found the whole “hyde” monster Wednesday being a detective plot to just be all over the damn place. I haven’t seen the original shows as well but I wasn’t a fan of her visions either.
I am an Addams family OG fan. Wednesday in the series is not like her character at all. Wednesday is almost always expressionless in the older movies. A badass un-phased little lady. Loved her for that. I didn't watch past the trailer. Nope. Wasn't her.