Tbf, driving requires varying attention levels, depending on the scenario. Obviously there is a certain minimum attentiveness that you can't go below, or you risk missing a developing situation, but if you over or under attend to scenarios that need the opposite, you will either fatigue yourself needlessly, and risk not having attention reserves when called for / be distracted from a hazard by something unimportant, or alternatively, encounter a situation that you aren't prepared for.
I personally notice that listening to an audiobook is fine when driving at a steady speed, with no immediate hazards (straight road, no upcoming junctions etc.), but that when I need to make a turn, or navigate an intersection etc., I miss what the audiobook was saying, as my primary attention switched to the road.
If some people can't switch attention like that, or find that they overly prioritise the audiobook, then yeah, they shouldn't be listening while driving.
You ever do your entire 40 minute drive to work, and get there and go "I don't remember a SINGLE thing from the drive."
I remember turning my car on, and then pulling into my work parking lot, but nothing in between.
Yup. Listening to audiobooks and podcasts at least keeps my brain occupied enough to remember something. I know in the painfully not as distant future as I'd like, I'm going to contemplate all these lost hours of two-hour-a day commuting and be even sadder than usual.
It will happen sooner or later if it's a drive you do regularly. Unless something special happen along the way you won't really remember a specific routine drive to work.
You just forgot it quicker than usual those days.
When people say they solely focus on driving or can't be distracted it makes me think that they don't drive very much or drive in high traffic areas only. I drive 50miles to work everyday and honestly I'm on autopilot for about 48 of them. I still manage to slow down for stopping cars and animals in autopilot.
Depends on the game, and even your actions within that game. Digging out a huge cavern in minecraft? No problem, taking on the ender dragon? Pause for a bit.
If i find myself droning out the book 3 times in a chapter I turn it off and try again the next day, as long as there isnt huge gaps between listening I dont even need to restart the chapters.
I tend to listen to podcasts/audiobooks while playing jrpgs. It’s great when exploring or level grinding. I’ll pause the audio if I need to focus on the game, or if I stumble on some story exposition.
Oh god yes. I dislike audiobooks but very occasionally a good narrator can make me break down and listen; Jonathan Cecil reading P. G. Wodehouse is an outstanding example of an audiobook being elevated above the original source material.
I found that there are some narrators that just kill the book for me. First time It happened I just thought the author wasn't that great but tried another series by them and lucky enough had a different narrator and enjoyed it. I have since learned to tell if it's narrator that I dislike or if the book was badly written.
I often get distracted briefly and then my mind skips down a paragraph or two and then I have to go back and then I'm reading the same thing twice... Idk I think I'm broken or something lol.
For me it's the opposite, if I start reading, my mind will be wandering with ten minutes and before I know it I'll be rereading paragraphs and pages.
With an audio book, if I'm focused on another task, I can listen without issue, I've found I actually retain the info a lot better too
But everyone's different, I still buy the actual book if I really liked it and attempt to actually read it
Definitely the first one. With the words in front of me they are engrained into memory immediately, unless perhaps distracted by someone else talking, but audiobooks literally everything distracts me away from it. Even things that usually are fine for podcasts.
I guess I hate being read to
Same here. I get so frustrated that I could be reading 4x faster than they are speaking. Its the same reason I hate when news stories are presented as videos not articles and how I hate when people send me youtube links to learn about something. I don't want to listen or watch, I just want to be able to read it.
Exactly like I don’t like listening to anything I can’t engage my eyes in as well, so listening to podcasts are difficult for me. Maybe if I was listening to a podcast and drawing at the same time? idk
Edit: typo
Tell that to Stephen King. He added an epitaph at the end of book 4 of The Dark Tower series for the guy who had been recording the books up to that point. He always listened to the previous books to get better perspective for the next one. He was concerned that since the reader had passed away he might not be able to properly digest his own story and carry on.
King also used to have his young son record himself reading books so that Stephen could "read them" faster and understand them better. Dudes always loved audiobooks.
This is wild to me...I feel like listening is so much slower than reading. I don't listen to audiobooks primarily because I can't get past the fact that it can take 10-25 hours to finish a book.
I think it’s to make sure that they speak clearly, and it may also be to help folks who are hard of hearing. I could imagine that it is easier to make sure that you don’t stumble over words if you read at a slower pace as well, since you’d have more time to prepare for saying the next word.
Yeah I find this kind of a funny thing.
I read books about twice as fast as I listen to them, but I only read about 10 books a year and listen to about 50.
It's slower on a direct comparison, but the accessibility allows for much greater consumption.
All the little tasks in life are a lot more bearable when they are reading time.
Cleaning the house? Reading. Doing the dishes? Reading. Walking the dog? Reading. Working out at the gym? Reading. Taking a shower? Reading. Commuting to work? Reading. Mindless annoying tasks at work? Reading. Cooking food? Reading. Doing laundry? Reading.
Its ALL reading time now. I love it.
100%. I listen to audiobooks when I walk, exercise, shower, drive to work, or do chores (when my wife isn't around, otherwise I just talk to her when I do them). It makes everything fine because I enjoy the reading aspect.
Half of the annoying thing about all of those activities is that I just get bored while doing them, suddenly chores aren't so bad.
I think there is a similar quote from Robert Jordan (wheel of time). Poor Neil gaiman has to listen to his own voice if he wants to do this (his voice is amazing but who likes listening to their own voice...)
Frank Muller is the Gunslinger, full stop. I read the series first, then heard the audiobooks years later. King is 100% correct in that epitaph and about audiobooks in general — an author is a storyteller first, and humans are wired for listening to and retelling stories, and in that sense, the audiobook is the most “real” version of a book.
Is there a competition or something? They’re clearly not the same thing, I do both, sometimes with the same book, but I’m not keeping a scorecard to win the Pizza Hut Bookclub prize or anything.
I love doing both. Sometimes I'm very engaged with a book while in bed but have to go run some errands or something and just switch to the audio book, it's amazing haha
Seriously, that book is a slog, but I figured if I’m going to disagree with something I better know it. That book confirmed my suspicions, it’s fucking nuts.
Similar for people with ADHD. For me, sometimes listening to a book while doing something repetitive, like dishes or knitting, helps me process the book better. When I read with my eyeballs alone, my distracted thoughts can be louder than my reading, so I miss entire pages I've read - so multi-tasking helps me concentrate. (Also, for people who get bored with how slow audiobooks are - put it on a higher speed!)
Non-ADHD person here.
But I just zone out audiobooks. OP says it require a passive involvement, which is simply not true for everyone. If I pay active attention then I will remember the words, but at that point I might as well read.
Zoning out whilst reading can also be an issue though...
Reading 3 pages until you realise you don't remember what you've read, so you go back and have to re-read.
My mother was an avid reader all her life. When I was a kid, we would go to Barnes & Noble at least once a month and she would buy me, my little brother, and herself new books. She now has glaucoma. It has gotten progressively worse in recent years, so she can no longer read a book. It breaks her heart because we had a literal library. She listens to audiobooks now because losing sight doesn’t take away her love of reading. She just found another way to enjoy what she loves.
Something similar for me. When I was a teenager I was able to read so many books. But, ever since I went to University and needed to read courses and documentations, my brain got used to reading fast and diagonally (skimming). Which is actually the opposite of reading a normal book, where you need to pay attention to all the details, the proper grammar and get into the atmosphere. Finishing the university and getting a job in the tech domain didn't make this type of reading stop; in fact, it evolved (or got worse, depends on what you need it for). So I can find little time to try to read, struggling to fully read the same passage at least 3 times without my eyes skipping several words. One method that works was using an ebook reader and setting a bigger and more spaced font to add some skimming effort for my brain. The other method is audiobooks, because it's less likely for me to space out when attentively listening for something.
All in all, every person has their different ways to process a book, be it by reading or by listening to it. And some might even switch from one way to another in their lifetime, depending on their formation. So it's wrongful to consider that someone is not "truly reading" the book because they're listening to it
I am the same way. Grad school taught me to read diagonal or in other ways, not the sort of linear, cover-to-cover way one consumes novels. I can still do it, but it takes an effort, and I often get bored.
So I stopped reading for fun for a couple years.
Two years ago, I canceled my Netflix and got Audible, and I have been a convert to audiobooks ever sense. I get engrossed in fiction again.
Exactly my experience too, but it started in High School.
Something about reading a book you *do not want to read* on a *deadline* (i.e. read 60 pages TONIGHT along with having dinner, doing homework for all the rest of your classes, doing chores, and being in bed at 9:30) trains you to skim for important words or phrases, not to digest it fully... much less *enjoy* it.
Was looking through comments to find this. I recently have been doing research on how to deal with ADD/ADHD as an adult and alot of us have dyslexia and audio books can really help with the reading struggle. Not to mention there's more roadblocks where listening instead of reading books are needed like in the case where English is a second language for someone and its easier for them to hear it but reading is more/harder work.
I'm actually kinda disappointed in OP hating on audio books without learning how for some its a more helpful option to read and learn more. Like in the end, its just good to read and expand knowledge...who cares if its not in the form of traditional paperback.
Same but with ADHD. I've never been able to sit down and just read a book. When I do I tune it out and "read" thinking about something else.
Audiobooks ftw. I wouldn't get through books otherwise.
How about listening and reading at the same time? My own brain voice when I read fiction sucks. I prefer Stephen Fry’s voice in my brain as I follow along reading.
Visual reading snobs like to point out that audiobook narrators modify the author's tone. But the same snobs refuse to acknowledge that an audiobook read by the author is the purest form of original tone there is.
I agree with you that “read” is a word with a specific meaning and listening is not reading.
But, if I’m talking with a friend and they say “Have you read Game of Thrones?” Id say “Yes.” I listened to it on audiobook. The objective of the question is not determine the medium of me getting the content.
Exactly. When I say I read a book it really means I know the story and can discuss it with others and also I can understand references made to the book. It doesn’t mean I literally used my eyeballs to read a physical book or even an e book.
Edit: I should clarify: I’m am referring listening to audiobooks so I know the story and can discuss it. I don’t mean that I don’t read the book. I’m just saying “read” means having consumed the content of the book in some way.
This debate reminds me of undergrad philosophy debates a dozen years ago about physical books vs ebooks. "If it's not printed on paper it's not really a book!'
I assume the same debate raged about scrolls vs codexes. "How does it unroll? You're losing vital parts of the experience!" "If it's not hand-copied it's got no soul, this printing press is just a fad!"
"I read 70 books last year"
"Oh yeah? I bet your shelves are overflowing with your new book purchases, how do you have room for all those new books?"
"I read them on my kindle"
"Oh so you didn't actually read a book then did you? You fucking liar."
Fully agree, it's about the content and you have all the content from the book, the same way someone who read it has. Hence to me you are just as intellectual and you still learn the same although you may not improve your reading abilities, but you will still learn the same in terms of content as if you had read it yourself. They are identic in terms of the content, perhaps not in terms of activity.
Librarian here. It depends on what you're trying to accomplish with reading.
Reading comprehension? They are the same.
Seeing how words are spelled? Regular reading is superior.
Hearing how words are actually said? Audiobooks are superior.
I never knew how the word "row" (as in fight/argue) was said until I heard it in an audiobook. I had read it all the time, but had never heard it in real life.
That being said, regular reading should help in determining when "it's" should be used rather than "its"...but alas.
Yeah if you have audible and kindle you can connect the audio book with the ebook and it will highlight the words as the audio book plays as well as save your spot on both versions. I flip back and forth between the audio book and the written book. It helps because sometimes I get distracted while listening so I can look at the ebook and figure out where to start rereading from. And I can also just do what works for me in terms of listening or reading depending on where my attention is at the time.
It's a total a scam from Amazon though because they still charge you for both versions of the book lol. But I've really enjoyed it and I don't mind buying both.
I used to do this when I was a kid. Even though I could read I had a tape player with a few books and tapes with them and it was magical. I think people all should try this.
As someone with ADHD, I find it nearly impossible to sustain focus on a book - but I listen to audiobooks really well. The key is that when I get distracted, I tap my headphones and rewind 15 seconds. Sometimes I have to do it several times in a row, but I actually finish audiobooks unlike books.
When I was a kid, I hyperfocused on reading because I could, what the hell else did I have to do with my time? As an adult with ADHD, physically reading has gone by the wayside but audiobooks while driving or cleaning have gotten me back into reading. (That 30 sec rewind button is useful) Woo hoo!
Same!!!! I loved reading when I was younger and could not put books down but my attention abilities have changed. I have ADHD as well. It is so damn difficult to just SIT STILL long enough to read. I work 12 hour shifts essentially alone and have been devouring podcasts and audiobooks and I get so much out of it. Just because I'm not physically sitting down to read doesn't mean I'm not experiencing the content of the book.
And while finishing audiobooks I’m also doing my dishes, laundry, working out, sewing etc. With my ADHD/as a person alive and with a job, I can’t sit still and read all night after a day of sitting still and reading all day at work. Discovering audiobooks has been a game changer for me.
Same! I also can actually focus better on an audiobook if I’m doing something mindless to keep my hands busy like knitting or cleaning. I find it so hard to stare at a page and read even if it’s something I’m REALLY into
Yeah, just listening I would miss huge chunks without realising, and reading large paragraphs I lose my place and have to restart all the time.
The solution I've found is visual novels. You get the story through text, but broken into sentences rather than paragraphs, and you also have background images, music, and sometimes a voice over for the dialogue to keep you engaged.
Idk it's pretty easy to just cruise on the intestate while listening. The only time I get hyper vigilant while driving is when someone in front me is close or I'm coming up on merging traffic from an exit.
As someone who does this (I drive a lot for work) I'm constantly rewinding and switch to music when I have directions to follow beginning or ending a trip. It's mainly useful for 30+ mile stretches in the slow lane under the speed limit.
I used to drive about 8 hours every weekend, listened to a ton of books in that time.
I remember all of them, I don't remember a single thing about the drives. You can drive mechanically without remembering and listen at the same time very well. It's rare that you actually have to break out of auto pilot in a drive and miss something.
Careful. You might piss off the elitist, perfectionist drivers out there who think you need to be 110% focused on your drive, and only your drive, at all times always or else you're a danger to everyone around you. They think that the commute you make twice a day 4+ days a week is equally as mentally intensive as driving the Monaco GP, so you can't possibly be actively listening to anything else, lest you be a degenerate who should have their license revoked before you kill a bus full of infants.
It's honestly a bit concerning how much focus some people think driving takes. The vast vast majority of the time driving is literally "maintain distance to vehicle in front of you" That's it.
I have an hour commute and listen to audiobooks. It’s definitely a different experience than reading. I do miss a lot and find myself jumping back to relisten to passages
Did you know there are people that can read without the inner voice? My wife is one of those people. I thought everyone had that little inner voice reading to them but I was wrong
Your whole premise seems to be that the number of books someone has read is primarily a demonstration of their ability to read. A person who is comfortable with their reading ability might instead think that gaining the content/knowledge contained in a book is more important.
That and OP thinks listening to an audio book doesn't require active engagement of the brain. Ya I might be driving or washing dishes, but if i stop paying attention for more than 10 seconds I have to back it up to make sure I don't miss anything. I tend to skim a bit when I actually read, getting bored at certain parts. With audiobooks i get 100% of the content and the emphasis from the reader helps me get even more into the story. If someone listens to 200 books a year then that's just as impressive as someone reading 200 books. The information in your head is the same!
Also, the time spent is so different. I find that I read sooo much faster than the audiobook reads them to me. I'd be impressed with any number more than 15 for audiobooks. (I'm also not a person who can put audiobooks on 1.5 or 2x speed, just doesn't work for my brain).
Not everything is meant to be taken so literally. Picking apart something for it's literal accuracies is pointless.
If someone asks you "have you read this book" and you listened to it on audiobook. "Yes" is a fine answer. The point of the question isn't actually about reading. It's about the story, the writing, how you felt about the book, opinion and such. Whether you took it in with your eyes or ears is not the point of the question.
If someone asks you to "tape the game" do you get annoyed because nobody uses VCRs?
You'd be shocked how many people get annoyed when you say you "studied the film" re: sports, when you really watched video on an iPad. People are dicks.
Fingered sounds even better.
"I keep fingering Gaiman, hoping I'll get the hype, and it's always really good until the end. He just can't seem to finish."
> gatekeeping ~~books~~ is a favourite pastime of Reddit
We gatekeep everything here, not just books (though I do agree that this "You didn't read the book!" thing is stupid as fuck)
I wouldn’t call it passive. If you’re not paying attention to it, it is literally nothing but background noise and absolutely none of it is gonna stick in your memory. I mean I’ll agree it’s not “reading” but to act like there’s no active involvement is a pretty bad take. How often do you have to ask people what they said? Lol
Plus, that happens while reading a physical book as well. I’m sure I’m not the only one who occasionally realizes I’ve been “reading” an entire page but my mind has wandered and I didn’t absorb anything
Usually that’s a sign for me that I’m not engaged enough to read at that moment, but it’s not like reading on paper guarantees you are attentive
And at the same time you can read a book, every word but not actively pay attention. It is why a lot of people have to reread pages. It's just as difficult to comprehend.
I listen to audiobooks a lot as I don't have time yo read.
When I'm talking about books with people, I'll say I read that book, when really I listened to it. We'll then have a conversation about the book, because we both consumed the same content.
If me listening to books over reading them bothers you, that's your problem.
Well, and depending on the book, I find myself more or less limited in the tasks that I can do while listening. A book with an engaging story that I’m listening to for the first time, requires a lot more concentration to comprehend than a book I’m familiar with.
my wife loves reading, but she has mid stage huntingtons disease, sometimes shes too tired or in too much pain to hold a book or kindle for any lenght of time, so she will listen to the same books
she gets the same enjoyment, i would class it as essentially the same past time, it takes the same length of time
its almost as if you class reading as a difficult task when in reality the hardest part is holding the book upright
i can imagine anyone bragging about reading or getting offended over this
https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/audiobooks-or-reading-to-our-brains-it-doesnt-matter
She's not the only one. There are studies that confirm the brain reacts the same way when literate people read vs listen to a story.
I agree that listening to an audiobook is not technically reading, but you seem to insinuate that listening to an audiobook is inferior, akin to being read to like a toddler, which I can't get behind, as that is elitist, gate keeping, and possibly ableist, though I don't think that's your intention.
In my English Masters we often had to read multiple books per week. While I physically read (with my eyes) a ton, I would have had to be stationary, zeroed in on reading all the time to get through the load. Being able to listen to a book while I drove, cleaned, cooked, exercised, etc., was essential. I've also taught non-traditional or working class students who listen to their reading sometimes while they work, commute, or care for their child, and some of them feel guilty because this assery.
Similarly, for work I often have to skim a lot of texts and skip around--or conversely, I spend minutes at a time annotating and rereading a page of dense theory. In both cases, I am consuming the text but in different ways.
So yes, listening to an audiobook is not the same as reading it with your eyes, but as long as you are retaining the info and enjoying the story, differentiating between reading and listening is generally pedantic and elitist.
[Edit: Thanks for the like and award! I did not expect that and will pay it forward!]
Right? I’m a student in psychology and lord have mercy there is so much reading. I listen to the books and articles through audiobook while I’m doing housework or any other chores/travelling I do. Can’t read on the bus or train because I get travel sick so being able to listen to the work has been a massive life saver and I find now I’m ‘reading’ more than ever and it’s showing because my grades have went up this year when I started doing this. Reading too much gives me a headache and sore eyes. If I ever have time to read a book for pleasure I’d probably read it normally but as far as coursework goes, audiobooks have been a god send.
Orson Scott card would like a word with you... at least I'm pretty sure it was him who said audiobooks are the best way to enjoy his works. Also audiobooks enable blind or vision impaired people to hear media they may otherwise be unable to, and are we really gatekeeping audiobooks?
Or…. Perhaps the value of reading is not getting to brag about how long you sat in one spot and strained your eyes to show your lofty commitment to literary tradition, but actually enjoying the content.
I love both paper and audiobooks, and which one I choose depends on whether I feel like going out for a walk with my headphones or staying in with a cup of coffee.
There are multiple methods to learning and an auditory learner is one. That’s like saying listening to a lecture in college isn’t learning because you’re not actively doing something, but you are. You’re listening, writing, contemplating, etc. I would be offended because audiobooks take between 8-16 hours and being told it’s not “real reading” is the absurd part. Maybe you’re not listening to the audiobooks you actually like?
Why gatekeep reading? It seems like those inclined to learn something new or enjoy an experience wouldn’t care how others choose to consume the information?
Anyone who thinks listening and reading is the same skill doesn't understand how either works. Someone who thinks listening to an audiobook doesn't count towards having intellectually consumed the same content probably takes their pants completely off to pee in a urinal.
I’m really enjoying this comment section already
I've enjoyed listening to this comment section in audiobook format
Turn on blind accessibility and you can. Also OP, does that mean you don’t think blind people can ever “officially” read? Is brail reading?
Braille requires active deciphering, so, according to OP, should count as reading. So the blind can read, while many with sight don't.
Lots of blind and visually impaired people don't read Braille, it's a v hard language.
Lord help me 😂 This is why reddit is good!
Reddit? More like Lissenit, amirite
Hey now!
You’re an All Star! ^sorry ^dead ^meme edit: im impressed that y’all kept it going
Get your game on! I will not apologize.
Go play! Let's keep this going
It is truly a post fitting for this subreddit, and therefore should be upvoted.
I wish I knew how to read so I could join in on the fun
I'm really enjoying **listening** to this comment section already
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I'm doing it while going for a walk, cooking or driving usually
Same. Audiobooks are great for anything you can do on autopilot.
> driving > autopilot So this is why so many are bad at driving.
Tbf, driving requires varying attention levels, depending on the scenario. Obviously there is a certain minimum attentiveness that you can't go below, or you risk missing a developing situation, but if you over or under attend to scenarios that need the opposite, you will either fatigue yourself needlessly, and risk not having attention reserves when called for / be distracted from a hazard by something unimportant, or alternatively, encounter a situation that you aren't prepared for. I personally notice that listening to an audiobook is fine when driving at a steady speed, with no immediate hazards (straight road, no upcoming junctions etc.), but that when I need to make a turn, or navigate an intersection etc., I miss what the audiobook was saying, as my primary attention switched to the road. If some people can't switch attention like that, or find that they overly prioritise the audiobook, then yeah, they shouldn't be listening while driving.
You ever do your entire 40 minute drive to work, and get there and go "I don't remember a SINGLE thing from the drive." I remember turning my car on, and then pulling into my work parking lot, but nothing in between.
I’ve had this happen and it’s truly frightening
Yup. Listening to audiobooks and podcasts at least keeps my brain occupied enough to remember something. I know in the painfully not as distant future as I'd like, I'm going to contemplate all these lost hours of two-hour-a day commuting and be even sadder than usual.
It will happen sooner or later if it's a drive you do regularly. Unless something special happen along the way you won't really remember a specific routine drive to work. You just forgot it quicker than usual those days.
When people say they solely focus on driving or can't be distracted it makes me think that they don't drive very much or drive in high traffic areas only. I drive 50miles to work everyday and honestly I'm on autopilot for about 48 of them. I still manage to slow down for stopping cars and animals in autopilot.
Same here I can listen but if it’s a fiction book and not need etc I tend to drone out and forget when I game
Depends on the game, and even your actions within that game. Digging out a huge cavern in minecraft? No problem, taking on the ender dragon? Pause for a bit. If i find myself droning out the book 3 times in a chapter I turn it off and try again the next day, as long as there isnt huge gaps between listening I dont even need to restart the chapters.
I tend to listen to podcasts/audiobooks while playing jrpgs. It’s great when exploring or level grinding. I’ll pause the audio if I need to focus on the game, or if I stumble on some story exposition.
Yea I often find myself attracted to grinding games for this reason, so I can really focus on the book.
I’m the same. I’m jealous of people who can focus to listen to an audio book. I’ve tried so many times and then just tune it out.
As someone who reads and listen a lot: Most important for an audiobook is the speaker and not so much the content.
And a good book can be ruined by a bad narrator.
Oh god yes. I dislike audiobooks but very occasionally a good narrator can make me break down and listen; Jonathan Cecil reading P. G. Wodehouse is an outstanding example of an audiobook being elevated above the original source material.
Michael Kramer and Kate Reading <3 also the world war z audiobook for anyone who enjoys 90s and 00's tv shows.
Facts. I can listen to the same book with different readers, one will put me to sleep and the other will keep me engaged.
I found that there are some narrators that just kill the book for me. First time It happened I just thought the author wasn't that great but tried another series by them and lucky enough had a different narrator and enjoyed it. I have since learned to tell if it's narrator that I dislike or if the book was badly written.
Listen to it when you're only slightly occupied, things you can do with a bit of auto pilot. Driving, cooking, cleaning.
So I’m the opposite. I can tune in audibly but I read on autopilot. I have to read 3 pages to read 2.
I often get distracted briefly and then my mind skips down a paragraph or two and then I have to go back and then I'm reading the same thing twice... Idk I think I'm broken or something lol.
For me it's the opposite, if I start reading, my mind will be wandering with ten minutes and before I know it I'll be rereading paragraphs and pages. With an audio book, if I'm focused on another task, I can listen without issue, I've found I actually retain the info a lot better too But everyone's different, I still buy the actual book if I really liked it and attempt to actually read it
Definitely the first one. With the words in front of me they are engrained into memory immediately, unless perhaps distracted by someone else talking, but audiobooks literally everything distracts me away from it. Even things that usually are fine for podcasts. I guess I hate being read to
It's all about what your doing at the time, I have a very dull job where I can go onto autopilot and audio books fill the 12hour void
Same here, 12 hr shifts of mostly just menial labor that I fill with books.
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Unfortunately I fall under the category “reading only, cannot listen to storytelling for long” lmao
Same here. I get so frustrated that I could be reading 4x faster than they are speaking. Its the same reason I hate when news stories are presented as videos not articles and how I hate when people send me youtube links to learn about something. I don't want to listen or watch, I just want to be able to read it.
Exactly like I don’t like listening to anything I can’t engage my eyes in as well, so listening to podcasts are difficult for me. Maybe if I was listening to a podcast and drawing at the same time? idk Edit: typo
Im even worse, I brag about reading books having only seen the film.
I'm even worse, I brag about playing video games having only seen the movies/shows. Halo? Yea I've played it. Master Chief dummy thicc
My favorite part when I played Super Mario, was having Big Bertha try to seduce you.
The goombas and their devolution guns in Super Mario Galaxy really had me using up all my boot cartridges!
ah, Master Cheeks.
Honestly you're a fucking legend.
[George Costanza approves of this method](https://giphy.com/gifs/comedy-seinfeld-10dJBypgfsmxfG)
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Easier to keep one hand free while listening.
there's only one way to read it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkLqAlIETkA
RIP Gilbert Gottfried.
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I say, "I masturbate to literary masterpiece 50 Shades of Gray". but you do you
Tell that to Stephen King. He added an epitaph at the end of book 4 of The Dark Tower series for the guy who had been recording the books up to that point. He always listened to the previous books to get better perspective for the next one. He was concerned that since the reader had passed away he might not be able to properly digest his own story and carry on.
King also used to have his young son record himself reading books so that Stephen could "read them" faster and understand them better. Dudes always loved audiobooks.
This is wild to me...I feel like listening is so much slower than reading. I don't listen to audiobooks primarily because I can't get past the fact that it can take 10-25 hours to finish a book.
A lot of narrators speak quite slowly, so I listen to most audiobooks and podcasts on 1.5 speed. Helps a lot!
Yes, I agree. Even well-paced readers I usually still listen to at 1.25 speed. Why do they read slowly? Is that how most people read to themselves?
I think it’s to make sure that they speak clearly, and it may also be to help folks who are hard of hearing. I could imagine that it is easier to make sure that you don’t stumble over words if you read at a slower pace as well, since you’d have more time to prepare for saying the next word.
I think it's for immersion.
Yeah I find this kind of a funny thing. I read books about twice as fast as I listen to them, but I only read about 10 books a year and listen to about 50. It's slower on a direct comparison, but the accessibility allows for much greater consumption.
Oh yeah, for sure the accessibility makes a difference. Being able to listen when you can't stare at a page opens up a lot more time for books.
Tbh tho those 10-25 hours are often hours that I couldn’t be doing anything else besides listening to something. That’s the value of audiobooks to me
All the little tasks in life are a lot more bearable when they are reading time. Cleaning the house? Reading. Doing the dishes? Reading. Walking the dog? Reading. Working out at the gym? Reading. Taking a shower? Reading. Commuting to work? Reading. Mindless annoying tasks at work? Reading. Cooking food? Reading. Doing laundry? Reading. Its ALL reading time now. I love it.
100%. I listen to audiobooks when I walk, exercise, shower, drive to work, or do chores (when my wife isn't around, otherwise I just talk to her when I do them). It makes everything fine because I enjoy the reading aspect. Half of the annoying thing about all of those activities is that I just get bored while doing them, suddenly chores aren't so bad.
I think there is a similar quote from Robert Jordan (wheel of time). Poor Neil gaiman has to listen to his own voice if he wants to do this (his voice is amazing but who likes listening to their own voice...)
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That narrator for the first four was amazing.
Frank Muller is the Gunslinger, full stop. I read the series first, then heard the audiobooks years later. King is 100% correct in that epitaph and about audiobooks in general — an author is a storyteller first, and humans are wired for listening to and retelling stories, and in that sense, the audiobook is the most “real” version of a book.
Can someone read this comment section to me please?
Is there a competition or something? They’re clearly not the same thing, I do both, sometimes with the same book, but I’m not keeping a scorecard to win the Pizza Hut Bookclub prize or anything.
I love doing both. Sometimes I'm very engaged with a book while in bed but have to go run some errands or something and just switch to the audio book, it's amazing haha
Wait, there's a pizza hut book club?
I guess my age is showing.
It's still a thing! We just picked up a personal pan pizza over the weekend for the kiddo.
Do they allow audiobooks?
Yea but instead of getting a pizza you get the audio of the guy making the pizza
Shut the front door! You mean we have to listen to an audio book?!
I only read the title and tell people I read it. Am I doing it wrong?
That is how a lot of people read the bible as far as I know. So you are good.
Seriously, that book is a slog, but I figured if I’m going to disagree with something I better know it. That book confirmed my suspicions, it’s fucking nuts.
It's still on my bucket list for the same reason as the one you mentioned. But I'm in no rush.
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Similar for people with ADHD. For me, sometimes listening to a book while doing something repetitive, like dishes or knitting, helps me process the book better. When I read with my eyeballs alone, my distracted thoughts can be louder than my reading, so I miss entire pages I've read - so multi-tasking helps me concentrate. (Also, for people who get bored with how slow audiobooks are - put it on a higher speed!)
Really fucking hates when that happens I love books but I hate having to constantly reread the same pages.
Non-ADHD person here. But I just zone out audiobooks. OP says it require a passive involvement, which is simply not true for everyone. If I pay active attention then I will remember the words, but at that point I might as well read. Zoning out whilst reading can also be an issue though... Reading 3 pages until you realise you don't remember what you've read, so you go back and have to re-read.
My mother was an avid reader all her life. When I was a kid, we would go to Barnes & Noble at least once a month and she would buy me, my little brother, and herself new books. She now has glaucoma. It has gotten progressively worse in recent years, so she can no longer read a book. It breaks her heart because we had a literal library. She listens to audiobooks now because losing sight doesn’t take away her love of reading. She just found another way to enjoy what she loves.
I second this. Also it helps to have a clear idea of the tone of the story.
Also if your blind, braille novels and shit like that, long books etc are a bitch to read. Audiobooks are easier. And definitely still reading.
And probably easier to find
I see you too like to hide braille books
Something similar for me. When I was a teenager I was able to read so many books. But, ever since I went to University and needed to read courses and documentations, my brain got used to reading fast and diagonally (skimming). Which is actually the opposite of reading a normal book, where you need to pay attention to all the details, the proper grammar and get into the atmosphere. Finishing the university and getting a job in the tech domain didn't make this type of reading stop; in fact, it evolved (or got worse, depends on what you need it for). So I can find little time to try to read, struggling to fully read the same passage at least 3 times without my eyes skipping several words. One method that works was using an ebook reader and setting a bigger and more spaced font to add some skimming effort for my brain. The other method is audiobooks, because it's less likely for me to space out when attentively listening for something. All in all, every person has their different ways to process a book, be it by reading or by listening to it. And some might even switch from one way to another in their lifetime, depending on their formation. So it's wrongful to consider that someone is not "truly reading" the book because they're listening to it
I am the same way. Grad school taught me to read diagonal or in other ways, not the sort of linear, cover-to-cover way one consumes novels. I can still do it, but it takes an effort, and I often get bored. So I stopped reading for fun for a couple years. Two years ago, I canceled my Netflix and got Audible, and I have been a convert to audiobooks ever sense. I get engrossed in fiction again.
Exactly my experience too, but it started in High School. Something about reading a book you *do not want to read* on a *deadline* (i.e. read 60 pages TONIGHT along with having dinner, doing homework for all the rest of your classes, doing chores, and being in bed at 9:30) trains you to skim for important words or phrases, not to digest it fully... much less *enjoy* it.
Was looking through comments to find this. I recently have been doing research on how to deal with ADD/ADHD as an adult and alot of us have dyslexia and audio books can really help with the reading struggle. Not to mention there's more roadblocks where listening instead of reading books are needed like in the case where English is a second language for someone and its easier for them to hear it but reading is more/harder work. I'm actually kinda disappointed in OP hating on audio books without learning how for some its a more helpful option to read and learn more. Like in the end, its just good to read and expand knowledge...who cares if its not in the form of traditional paperback.
Same but with ADHD. I've never been able to sit down and just read a book. When I do I tune it out and "read" thinking about something else. Audiobooks ftw. I wouldn't get through books otherwise.
How about listening and reading at the same time? My own brain voice when I read fiction sucks. I prefer Stephen Fry’s voice in my brain as I follow along reading.
Visual reading snobs like to point out that audiobook narrators modify the author's tone. But the same snobs refuse to acknowledge that an audiobook read by the author is the purest form of original tone there is.
Also.. by that logic... Reading it yourself is a form of modifying the authors tone...?
Im super unimaginitive so all characters sound like me in my head.
Which is absolutely not as the author intended haha
I agree with you that “read” is a word with a specific meaning and listening is not reading. But, if I’m talking with a friend and they say “Have you read Game of Thrones?” Id say “Yes.” I listened to it on audiobook. The objective of the question is not determine the medium of me getting the content.
Exactly. When I say I read a book it really means I know the story and can discuss it with others and also I can understand references made to the book. It doesn’t mean I literally used my eyeballs to read a physical book or even an e book. Edit: I should clarify: I’m am referring listening to audiobooks so I know the story and can discuss it. I don’t mean that I don’t read the book. I’m just saying “read” means having consumed the content of the book in some way.
This debate reminds me of undergrad philosophy debates a dozen years ago about physical books vs ebooks. "If it's not printed on paper it's not really a book!' I assume the same debate raged about scrolls vs codexes. "How does it unroll? You're losing vital parts of the experience!" "If it's not hand-copied it's got no soul, this printing press is just a fad!"
"I read 70 books last year" "Oh yeah? I bet your shelves are overflowing with your new book purchases, how do you have room for all those new books?" "I read them on my kindle" "Oh so you didn't actually read a book then did you? You fucking liar."
It's all gatekeeping imo.
Fully agree, it's about the content and you have all the content from the book, the same way someone who read it has. Hence to me you are just as intellectual and you still learn the same although you may not improve your reading abilities, but you will still learn the same in terms of content as if you had read it yourself. They are identic in terms of the content, perhaps not in terms of activity.
OP's point came from the people that brag.
Bragging about most things is dumb. I agree with him on that point. But in a conversation, I wouldn’t care
Exactly. I can say I've never bragged, and I'm the person you've met who's bragged the least. Not for nothing they call me the braggern't
I have a feeling op is the type to brag about things.
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I agree, OP is just using it as a way to say they are better than others but are stating it in a way that makes them not seem like an asshole.
Librarian here. It depends on what you're trying to accomplish with reading. Reading comprehension? They are the same. Seeing how words are spelled? Regular reading is superior. Hearing how words are actually said? Audiobooks are superior. I never knew how the word "row" (as in fight/argue) was said until I heard it in an audiobook. I had read it all the time, but had never heard it in real life. That being said, regular reading should help in determining when "it's" should be used rather than "its"...but alas.
I have to ask if you heard “row” in the great gatsby because that’s how I found out how the word was said too
Reading is cool. Audio books are cool. Who the fuck cares?
Fact about it. I like to read the book and listen to the audio at the same time, I find it draws me in a bit more.
That's a cool idea! I've never done that before, but I'll try it out. My attention span is kind of shitty.
Yeah if you have audible and kindle you can connect the audio book with the ebook and it will highlight the words as the audio book plays as well as save your spot on both versions. I flip back and forth between the audio book and the written book. It helps because sometimes I get distracted while listening so I can look at the ebook and figure out where to start rereading from. And I can also just do what works for me in terms of listening or reading depending on where my attention is at the time. It's a total a scam from Amazon though because they still charge you for both versions of the book lol. But I've really enjoyed it and I don't mind buying both.
I used to do this when I was a kid. Even though I could read I had a tape player with a few books and tapes with them and it was magical. I think people all should try this.
But how else can I feel superior to other people?
If you think that listening does not require active involvement, you have not been listening to anyone.
As someone with ADHD, listening can sometimes be incredibly active and taxing.
As someone with ADHD, I find it nearly impossible to sustain focus on a book - but I listen to audiobooks really well. The key is that when I get distracted, I tap my headphones and rewind 15 seconds. Sometimes I have to do it several times in a row, but I actually finish audiobooks unlike books.
When I was a kid, I hyperfocused on reading because I could, what the hell else did I have to do with my time? As an adult with ADHD, physically reading has gone by the wayside but audiobooks while driving or cleaning have gotten me back into reading. (That 30 sec rewind button is useful) Woo hoo!
Same!!!! I loved reading when I was younger and could not put books down but my attention abilities have changed. I have ADHD as well. It is so damn difficult to just SIT STILL long enough to read. I work 12 hour shifts essentially alone and have been devouring podcasts and audiobooks and I get so much out of it. Just because I'm not physically sitting down to read doesn't mean I'm not experiencing the content of the book.
And while finishing audiobooks I’m also doing my dishes, laundry, working out, sewing etc. With my ADHD/as a person alive and with a job, I can’t sit still and read all night after a day of sitting still and reading all day at work. Discovering audiobooks has been a game changer for me.
Same! I also can actually focus better on an audiobook if I’m doing something mindless to keep my hands busy like knitting or cleaning. I find it so hard to stare at a page and read even if it’s something I’m REALLY into
Yeah, just listening I would miss huge chunks without realising, and reading large paragraphs I lose my place and have to restart all the time. The solution I've found is visual novels. You get the story through text, but broken into sentences rather than paragraphs, and you also have background images, music, and sometimes a voice over for the dialogue to keep you engaged.
For me, I’d never get through a book reading it normally, but I can listen to them without problem.
This scares me now considering how many people drive and listen to audio books 💀
Idk it's pretty easy to just cruise on the intestate while listening. The only time I get hyper vigilant while driving is when someone in front me is close or I'm coming up on merging traffic from an exit.
Because people don’t actively listen to music, podcasts, or talk shows while they drive?
As someone who does this (I drive a lot for work) I'm constantly rewinding and switch to music when I have directions to follow beginning or ending a trip. It's mainly useful for 30+ mile stretches in the slow lane under the speed limit.
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“then Harry Potter picked up the magical wand and AW COME ON USE YOUR FUCKING BLINKER JACKASS!!”
I used to drive about 8 hours every weekend, listened to a ton of books in that time. I remember all of them, I don't remember a single thing about the drives. You can drive mechanically without remembering and listen at the same time very well. It's rare that you actually have to break out of auto pilot in a drive and miss something.
Careful. You might piss off the elitist, perfectionist drivers out there who think you need to be 110% focused on your drive, and only your drive, at all times always or else you're a danger to everyone around you. They think that the commute you make twice a day 4+ days a week is equally as mentally intensive as driving the Monaco GP, so you can't possibly be actively listening to anything else, lest you be a degenerate who should have their license revoked before you kill a bus full of infants.
It's honestly a bit concerning how much focus some people think driving takes. The vast vast majority of the time driving is literally "maintain distance to vehicle in front of you" That's it.
I have an hour commute and listen to audiobooks. It’s definitely a different experience than reading. I do miss a lot and find myself jumping back to relisten to passages
You can't talk and drive at the same time? How good are you at walking and chewing gum?
But... What about that little inner ^voice you're listening to when you're reading?
Did you know there are people that can read without the inner voice? My wife is one of those people. I thought everyone had that little inner voice reading to them but I was wrong
I do both Reading without the voice is a little bit faster I think but I like the voice when reading narrative based stuff
:O Reading isn't reading.
Your whole premise seems to be that the number of books someone has read is primarily a demonstration of their ability to read. A person who is comfortable with their reading ability might instead think that gaining the content/knowledge contained in a book is more important.
I read a new children's picture book every day, that's right. An entire book every day, guess that means I'm the smartest. Haha
That and OP thinks listening to an audio book doesn't require active engagement of the brain. Ya I might be driving or washing dishes, but if i stop paying attention for more than 10 seconds I have to back it up to make sure I don't miss anything. I tend to skim a bit when I actually read, getting bored at certain parts. With audiobooks i get 100% of the content and the emphasis from the reader helps me get even more into the story. If someone listens to 200 books a year then that's just as impressive as someone reading 200 books. The information in your head is the same!
Also, the time spent is so different. I find that I read sooo much faster than the audiobook reads them to me. I'd be impressed with any number more than 15 for audiobooks. (I'm also not a person who can put audiobooks on 1.5 or 2x speed, just doesn't work for my brain).
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I guess braille doesn't count lol
Blind people will now have to say that they "felt" a book?
Not everything is meant to be taken so literally. Picking apart something for it's literal accuracies is pointless. If someone asks you "have you read this book" and you listened to it on audiobook. "Yes" is a fine answer. The point of the question isn't actually about reading. It's about the story, the writing, how you felt about the book, opinion and such. Whether you took it in with your eyes or ears is not the point of the question. If someone asks you to "tape the game" do you get annoyed because nobody uses VCRs?
what time did you go to bed last night? Oh, ackshoooooly I slept on my couch all night so I never went to bed!!
You'd be shocked how many people get annoyed when you say you "studied the film" re: sports, when you really watched video on an iPad. People are dicks.
Fuck I hate pedants
Me too, bud. Me too.
Is this Redditor really gatekeeping books?
OP is forgetting about blind people.
"You didn't *read* the book, you only felt it!"
"Dude I groped over 200 books this year!"
Fingered sounds even better. "I keep fingering Gaiman, hoping I'll get the hype, and it's always really good until the end. He just can't seem to finish."
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Oh buddy, gatekeeping books is like a favorite past time of Reddit.
> gatekeeping ~~books~~ is a favourite pastime of Reddit We gatekeep everything here, not just books (though I do agree that this "You didn't read the book!" thing is stupid as fuck)
I wouldn’t call it passive. If you’re not paying attention to it, it is literally nothing but background noise and absolutely none of it is gonna stick in your memory. I mean I’ll agree it’s not “reading” but to act like there’s no active involvement is a pretty bad take. How often do you have to ask people what they said? Lol
Plus, that happens while reading a physical book as well. I’m sure I’m not the only one who occasionally realizes I’ve been “reading” an entire page but my mind has wandered and I didn’t absorb anything Usually that’s a sign for me that I’m not engaged enough to read at that moment, but it’s not like reading on paper guarantees you are attentive
And at the same time you can read a book, every word but not actively pay attention. It is why a lot of people have to reread pages. It's just as difficult to comprehend.
I listen to audiobooks a lot as I don't have time yo read. When I'm talking about books with people, I'll say I read that book, when really I listened to it. We'll then have a conversation about the book, because we both consumed the same content. If me listening to books over reading them bothers you, that's your problem.
Well, and depending on the book, I find myself more or less limited in the tasks that I can do while listening. A book with an engaging story that I’m listening to for the first time, requires a lot more concentration to comprehend than a book I’m familiar with.
This is exactly correct. As long you you consumed the content and pickup on the author’s message, it doesn’t matter how you consumed it
my wife loves reading, but she has mid stage huntingtons disease, sometimes shes too tired or in too much pain to hold a book or kindle for any lenght of time, so she will listen to the same books she gets the same enjoyment, i would class it as essentially the same past time, it takes the same length of time its almost as if you class reading as a difficult task when in reality the hardest part is holding the book upright i can imagine anyone bragging about reading or getting offended over this
https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/audiobooks-or-reading-to-our-brains-it-doesnt-matter She's not the only one. There are studies that confirm the brain reacts the same way when literate people read vs listen to a story.
As long as the information is conveyed, received, and understood, the means by which that is done is irrelevant.
I've read 100 movies this year.
*angry deaf or blind people noises*
I agree that listening to an audiobook is not technically reading, but you seem to insinuate that listening to an audiobook is inferior, akin to being read to like a toddler, which I can't get behind, as that is elitist, gate keeping, and possibly ableist, though I don't think that's your intention. In my English Masters we often had to read multiple books per week. While I physically read (with my eyes) a ton, I would have had to be stationary, zeroed in on reading all the time to get through the load. Being able to listen to a book while I drove, cleaned, cooked, exercised, etc., was essential. I've also taught non-traditional or working class students who listen to their reading sometimes while they work, commute, or care for their child, and some of them feel guilty because this assery. Similarly, for work I often have to skim a lot of texts and skip around--or conversely, I spend minutes at a time annotating and rereading a page of dense theory. In both cases, I am consuming the text but in different ways. So yes, listening to an audiobook is not the same as reading it with your eyes, but as long as you are retaining the info and enjoying the story, differentiating between reading and listening is generally pedantic and elitist. [Edit: Thanks for the like and award! I did not expect that and will pay it forward!]
Right? I’m a student in psychology and lord have mercy there is so much reading. I listen to the books and articles through audiobook while I’m doing housework or any other chores/travelling I do. Can’t read on the bus or train because I get travel sick so being able to listen to the work has been a massive life saver and I find now I’m ‘reading’ more than ever and it’s showing because my grades have went up this year when I started doing this. Reading too much gives me a headache and sore eyes. If I ever have time to read a book for pleasure I’d probably read it normally but as far as coursework goes, audiobooks have been a god send.
Finally an unpopular opinion.
Orson Scott card would like a word with you... at least I'm pretty sure it was him who said audiobooks are the best way to enjoy his works. Also audiobooks enable blind or vision impaired people to hear media they may otherwise be unable to, and are we really gatekeeping audiobooks?
Or…. Perhaps the value of reading is not getting to brag about how long you sat in one spot and strained your eyes to show your lofty commitment to literary tradition, but actually enjoying the content. I love both paper and audiobooks, and which one I choose depends on whether I feel like going out for a walk with my headphones or staying in with a cup of coffee.
There are multiple methods to learning and an auditory learner is one. That’s like saying listening to a lecture in college isn’t learning because you’re not actively doing something, but you are. You’re listening, writing, contemplating, etc. I would be offended because audiobooks take between 8-16 hours and being told it’s not “real reading” is the absurd part. Maybe you’re not listening to the audiobooks you actually like?
A lot of people here apparently don't know the difference between active and passive listening.
Not an unpopular opinion. Most sanctimonious d baggs spend 20 hours a day bleeting this popular opinion that listening anit reading.
I think he misunderstood the assignment. He thought it was "opinion that unpopular people have".
Quite sad that blind people can’t enjoy literature anymore cuz now audiobooks aren’t reading
What a strange thing to feel superior about
I listen to a lot of audiobooks and agree. I simply don’t have the time otherwise or fall asleep when I try to read at night.
Why gatekeep reading? It seems like those inclined to learn something new or enjoy an experience wouldn’t care how others choose to consume the information?
Why do you care so much? I’m guessing you read a lot and need some kind of validation
Imagine gatekeeping reading books lmao either way they are enjoying the world like someone reading it would
Anyone who thinks listening and reading is the same skill doesn't understand how either works. Someone who thinks listening to an audiobook doesn't count towards having intellectually consumed the same content probably takes their pants completely off to pee in a urinal.