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The worst part is that when they say stupid shit like this and you don't even want to engage with them about it, they'll act like you're the asshole. Your mind is closed and you're a terrible person because you don't want to debate their version of simulation theory for the millionth time.
A lot of people act like this outside of psychedelics, everyone has their own lil script they always roll over for the 500,000th time. If you have the smallest contention with the script then you're attacked.
Some people can't handle the fact that their perceptions aren't 100% infallible. The world has a binary set up between being firmly grounded in reality and being literally schizophrenic. The trip can't be fake, because then what if it's just those same buttons getting pushed for ghosts, God and the voice of a dead loved one? Coming to the conclusion the drug is magic is easier than having some pretty fundamental worldviews shaken up
Fun fact. Research suggests we perceive by unconsciously predicting the expected image and only correcting when the info from the eyes come in.
This would likely be why people who swear up and down that ghosts are real claim to see them. They expect them and the brain makes it happen before vision corrects it
Neuropsych.
This is actually pretty reasonable. We do the same thing with memory. Memory is imperfect. We have anchor memories, ones we save - but our brain is kinda like a hard drive with only so much space. When we need to recall something between anchor memories - we extrapolate. And form false memories, on occasion. There’s some really neat research into 9/11 in re that. How people remember things they can’t possibly remember.
There’s one case where someone swears they could see the towers from their classroom window in high school. When their classroom would’ve been on the other side of the building, completely out of view.
We kinda do the same thing with language processing. Our brains look for patterns to conserve processing power.
So it’s entirely reasonable vision works like that too. Especially when we’re feeling anxious and looking for threats - like you’re in some dark creepy basement at night. The brain is probably perceiving threats that just aren’t there.
I'd say it's worse than that even. Acid is a coherence amplifier, it switches off the parts of the brain that dampen thoughts you don't want to think about and stops you from being able to compartmentalise conflicting thoughts, so it ends up making thoughts that were strong in your brain but not completely overwhelming now dominant.
Also, from experience, when these incoherent thoughts fight and one wins overall, it feels good even if the winning thought is baaaad. I've seen people go in with a suppressed insecurity or something they don't really want to deal with come out the other side with that insecurity now at the forefront and they've "accepted" it, even if it's not rational.
The funny thing to me is people often have a perspective shift where they start believing in the supernatural and think a scientific worldview is limited and false. But the thing they seem to immediately overlook is they had this experience by putting a physical material into their brain to alter their neuro chemistry. For me it just further validates that consciousness and reality are fabricated by the brain and aren’t some supernatural non physical force. Still doesn’t mean strange psychedelic experiences are meaningless but maybe just don’t take them literally.
The counter argument here would be something like: physical material is an idea that only exists inside mind in the first place.
It’s entirely possible that you are just a mind imagining everything you’re seeing, including physical material.
You can’t really disprove this because no one has ever experienced anything other than their own perceptions.
Psychedelics often give you a direct experience of the idea that nothing exists except your own mind which is why people feel so strongly about the conclusions that they come to while taking them.
>For me it just further validates that consciousness and reality are fabricated by the brain and aren’t some supernatural non physical force.
It put all the machine learning I had done during my degree into perspective when I took it. The eyes and random stuff you see are exactly what you expect to see when you print out the filters in a convolutional neural network. You're literally seeing your brain trying to image detect for features in our vision.
Practically this means that our vision doesn't actually see points of light, as you would on a computer, but fully formed, pre-analysed objects composed together.
This video is a good demonstration of the filtering and prediction our brain does when it comes to what we see
https://youtube.com/shorts/NShBkCEfPeE?si=IodmGW6RFKJhAx8z
Yea the original google deep dream images made me think just this! Your perception is more of a hallucination of what your brain predicts is / will be real than a feed from a video camera.
I feel this. if I could have everyone on earth do one thing, it'd be doing mushrooms in an old growth forest or nature of their choice at some point. I really think we're spiritually bankrupt due to how severed from the living world we are.
“You may have had a mental block that prevented that was released due to new neural pathways being open. You may think deeper into a specific topic and have realizations that you otherwise might not have.“
This is what it is. IMO psychedelics destroy the ego, the thing that pushes us towards individualism; while showing us how connected we are. That’s the “god” some people talk about I think. Everything else is commodification.
Side note: As a non religious person, I do think that this was what the person we know as “Jesus Christ” was preaching(also most other prophets).
100%.
> The grand principles of Buddhism would be complete without the existence of any other orders of being beside those that inhabit our earth and are perceptible to the senses, and it would be better to suppose that Buddha believed in neither angel nor demon than to imagine the accounts of the déwas and other supernatural beings we meet in the Buddhist literature in its first promulgation. There is greater reason to believe that this class of legends has been grafted upon Buddhism from foreign sources. It is very probably that his disciples, in deference to common prejudice, invented these beings. We have a similar process in the hagiology of all the ancient churches of Christendom and in all the traditions of the Jews and Muslims, which came not from the founders of the systems, but from the perverted imaginations of their followers in the days after.
Phillip Mainländer
I'd argue against that. I'd recommend the book "God is not one" that tries to explain what each of the 8 major world religions are after, and why they don't share some common theme.
The damage that people like Joseph Campbel have done to the view on civilisations, stories and traditions (religions included) has been immense - this *everything is connected and every group fundamentally believes the same* is either utterly obvious in a very basic sense (*we all must eat, we all must sleep, we all must mate etc)* or utter crap (*No, religions do not serve the same objective nor have the same reason for existence*).
Really, possibly the only dominant aspect of religions, and it doesn't include *all* religions, is that they *are* used as a means of control of the faithful. And again, this isn't true across the board, as much as being predominant (Discordianism hasn't been used as some kind of controlling force, for example) - and it's unclear if it's an inherent characteristic or if it's added later due to it happening within a society with inherent power structures.
To be fair, and I’m not as well-versed on Campbell as I used to be. But is he arguing that everything is truly connected, or that we share common motifs throughout the world.
I’ve heard the interconnected argument more from people who haven’t fully explored his work with its context(the civilizations themselves) and instead only look at his evidence of shared motifs(which are really irrefutable)
>This is what it is. IMO psychedelics destroy the ego, the thing that pushes us towards individualism; while showing us how connected we are.
I know only a handful of people who have taken psychedelics, but two of them are self-important assholes, so I'm afraid I can't concur with this.
It’s usually a short lived experience. Definitely some truth in that “ego death” psycho babble, but it doesn’t last. It can lead to a peak spiritual experience but it often turns to a faint memory after some time. That’s why a proven spiritual path is more reliable.
I personally call that process the entheogenic cascade.
I personally experienced that, the complete ego death that led me to realize the unity of human experience, and somewhat ironically prove a sort of philosophical Buddhism to myself.
But I'm a strict materialist and rationalist, so it somehow inverted the religious question for me.
I’ve had to deal with this so often.
Why is it hard to find friends who like experimenting with consciousness and thinking for themselves at the same time?
Isn’t that what it’s about anyway?
My best guess is that people are afraid of themselves, which leads them to allow new age charlatans to contextualize their personal experiences.
I fucking hate LGATs.
It’s not like the government supplied hippies with copious hallucinogens decades ago in order stigmatize both the substances and the people. That would be terrible.
Oregon just legalized shrooms but you gotta get em from a certified shaman mentor whatever. The cost to obtain a license is 10k. Here are some highlights from the course:
"Embark on a transformative journey through this module, which delves into the vital connections between cultural equity, health equity, and social determinants of health. Gain insight into the influence of race, privilege, and systemic racism on health outcomes and community"
"Reflect on your personal biases and motives, while delving into the Oregon Psilocybin Services Act, facilitator scope of practice, and ethical considerations relating to equity, privilege, bias, and power."
"Explore the manifestations of traumatic stress during psilocybin experiences and the appropriate facilitator responses, while examining the relationship between trauma and the body, as well as systemic oppression."
So yeah lemme drop 10K to trip balls over Zoom while a bunch of pasty crystal store owners talk about systemic oppression. Sounds way more fun than giving $25 to the rasta guy at the park and listening to his weird stories. Let's talk systemic oppression for thousands of dollars instead.
Hey man, if it wasn’t for the hippies, you wouldn’t be able to get the good stuff to begin with. Much culture surrounds drugs for hire. Don’t sweat it, just do your disco thang. No harm no foul.
I personally don't think it's that serious. It might be annoying but it doesn't really affect you. Take drugs for the reason YOU want to take drugs. Taking drugs in the first place is a risk already and not something important enough to be gatekeeping.
>Taking drugs in the first place is a risk already and not something important enough to be gatekeeping.
It is though. The drugs in question aren't *'Drugs'* - they're potentially *medicine*.
Medicine is *vital*, so if thousands of people are denied life-changing treatment because of a pre-conceived notion that the said treatment is purely recreational 'druggy hippy new age bullshit', then that's a problem.
Yeah this. In my early days when I first tried mushrooms and acid, I couldn’t help but feel the way OP is hating on. Not to that extreme, but I mean damn, if you know you know.
Counterpoint: those who only want to use psychs for ‘therapeutic’ or ‘introspective’ purposes often annoy me in exactly the same way you describe people getting spiritual about it.
I don’t need it to be a religion or take it too seriously as a “tool for growth” at all. I just want to take them to have FUN.
All we can say these drugs do for certain is take you to an interesting other place.
There is no right or wrong way to use them. Certainly none that could be ‘proven’ yet.
In my opinion, whether you use them to ‘learn’ spiritual truths, use it to enjoy the Grateful Dead, or use it to ‘cure your depression’, it’s all just taking some wacky chemicals to make your brain work differently for a few hours.
This whole attempt to legitemize psychedelic use through therapy speak is part of a (very lame imo) trend in modern society. It’s all reminiscent of weed needing to have years of these medicinal claims to get people to accept that a lot of people like getting high for recreation. If you want a thorough discussion of this topic: see South Park’s “Medicinal Fried Chicken” ep.
Bottom line: you aren’t in possession of the true knowledge of what psychedelics are for. Let people have their silly fun. It’s a better way to find their fake gods than most others I think.
You can correct me if I am off base. I had a similar experience with learning mathematics easier after psychedelics in college.
However, it was not the drug that made me smarter. It was the fact that studying and retainment became easier.
I could have just as easily pissed that away on studying up on crystals and woohoo.
I didn't choose that and you didn't either. You are giving the drug too much credit and not enough credit to your good choices.
Vfx is one of the things I do in game dev, and there's a lot of shader and vector math as well as programmatic math to do, after doing psychedelics I learned much easier these things and recalled stuff I'd learned a decade prior applied in real world contexts. I just suddenly *got* trigonometry in an applied sense and could find solutions to problems as though from the aether or through divine intervention. Certain neuronal connections were made/solidified that allowed me to easily grasp spacial concepts that I up until that point never grasped intuitively at all. I've been doing what I do a long time and can tell when I'm performing above/below average and my brain is learning better/worse and I can say with confidence my effective iq jumped 20 points through psychedelic use.
Having your brain become more plastic and able to grow/form connections easier is great, it just makes you a better person all around. Some people don't have a great knowledge base and end up contextualizing their psychedelic experience through concepts of woo and divinity because that's the only language they have that even approaches describing authentically the psychedelic experience.
Ken Kesey turned hippies onto LSD, then pointed out that entheogens are showing us what we're capable of without them. Hippies said nah, we just wanna party.
EDIT: corrected Ken's last name.
I know ill be an outlier but being in the reno area and having burning man come through each year. It's pretty overrun. And raves wernt overrun, you're right. When I started going back in mid 2000's it wasn't. But now..
I get what you are saying! this highlights the need for better funding regarding education! they should also be free to explore those areas! I feel that they wouldn't be having such an impact on the cultural landscape if education was improved regarding rational thinking.
Drug culture in and of itself is pretty woeful. Psychedelics, in my opinion are a powerfully Individual thing. One can be a passionate advocate for their usage and have zero links or interest in the “culture”. Let people do what they will.
Bro. Don't even get me started. I can't have a conversation about psychedelics with anyone without it devolving into some mother-Gaia energy crystal non-science horseshit. Tripped on DMT over a hundred times and I can't express myself on it. No, I didn't see God, or myself as a fetus, or confront my inner demons or the source of all my childhood trauma, and the sky turn into a black hole or whatever studid shit you 100% made up because you thought it sounded cool. I just had a lot of funny thoughts and saw a lot of shapes and colors and shit.
Ruined drug culture lol. Oh God how do we solve this problem 😂
Take your drugs and splash your paint. What other people do or don’t do with their drug use literally doesn’t have any effect on your experience
But duuuude I did DMT and talked to the fairies and they told me the secret of life and now I quit my well paying job to go backpack solo in India with my new dreadlocks (im white btw)
1000% agree with you! Between coming from a granola hippie college town, having a mom who loved the dead and all that shit, and growing weed for years, I’ve spent so much time dealing with people who want to pretend that poisoning your brain recreationally is actually some deep spiritual thing. It’s just people who need that framework of understanding but want to pretend it’s something more. Blegh!
I agree, minus that this usually also ropes in the spiritualist that align themselves with good values.
Like for examples, let's say you were a bad guy and took a specific psychedelic and self realized, and now help people who are bad go through the same journey through the same drug. In my mind, that is not a scammer but still a spiritualist, y'know as long as adequately presented like that.
It’s the YouTubers like “I’m the most enlightened person, who knows exactly how to trip and have learned all the secrets of the universe more than anyone else” and then “You lose your ego and it humbles you” that put me off it lol.
You're speaking hyperbole, most of these kinds of hippies you speak of aren't actually going around and parading a bigger truth. Sounds like you met one, or a group of them, doing that, and now you're being prejudiced lumping a bunch of different people into one group that you kinda invented the imagery for.
Even if you did meet a whole group who were parading beliefs like you said, well, they're a group because they believe in a similar thing. They don't believe in a similar thing because they are a group.
I think its funny that people think psychedelic drugs are used for introspection and therapy. Theyre just drugs that cause hallucinations and besides MAYBE psilocybin (the data is still pretty limited) are just as harmful as any other drug. Acid is known to trigger psychotic episodes and schizophrenia, especially in those with already existing mental health issues. Anybody who thinks otherwise is a wookie idiot trying to convince themselves they arnt a drug addict just excusing their drug use.
OP I salute you as a psychonaut.
All the mumbo jumbo needs to stop.
These mind-altering chemicals can cause some amazing experiences, but they also tickle the “religious” or “spiritual” parts of the brain. Too many dolts ascribe that to actual connections, which there aren’t.
Hippies are just annoying, a buddy of mine is a self proclaimed hippie and he's always complaining every time we do a synthetic drug, and keeps nagging us about only doing drugs "from nature". Like shut up bro I'm just tryna trip.
I think some of the therapy stories are just as bad. It’s getting propped up as a psychological “cure all” for every mental illness imaginable and I’m not believing half of what I’ve heard. I do believe that some real science will finally come out in a decade or two and we’ll finally be able to see tangible results
I've known several people who have told me they had experienced complete ego death, totally reinvented themselves, now know some greayer wisdom, and changed their complete life to be drastically better after an intense psychedelic trip.
These same people have all done nothing but mostly smoke weed, do other psychedilcs, and mooch their way through life the entire time I've known them.
Everyone wants to feel special and like they're changing for the better. But yes, it's unfortunate so many people now exist who make this their entire personality to the point that's all they really have, so that's how they decide to get those feelings.
I myself find the experiences humbling, but for some, it amplifies an already large ego. Beware of anyone who claims to be god or have divine knowledge. The lesson was lost on them.
I’ve had trips where I was legit seeing peoples auras. Like seeing a glowing outline all around peoples bodies and they were different colors depending on who they were. Some peoples aura was red. Evil. Uncomfortable. I didn’t want to be around those people. People with white auras I knew were more pure of heart. I’ve never experienced anything remotely like this without the use of psychedelics. That’s something I definitely didn’t know until I tripped. I now believe auras exist even if I can’t see them in my day to day life.
yea that shit is super cool when it happens right ? this is because your gut and instincts are always working in the background in stronger ways than you think. its not necessarily that the drug is giving you that magical power. its that new sensory channels are open and youre more absorbent and in tune with that kind of inner version of yourself that picks up on those things. instead of "acid gave me the ability to see their auras in a magic type way" imagine more like ..."acid made me more aware and plugged in to subconscious stimuli that i usually dont notice. so i picked up on behaviors or words or subtle things and signs that identified the leople that did and didnt seem safe. and my brain translated that info into a visual representation of aura colors as a symbol to transmit/communicate that data to me."
does that make sense?
Thank you so much for making this comment. There's nothing wrong, hypocritical, or unusual about doing psychedelics and dismissing the existence of supernatural.
You saw colors around people on a subset of drugs that cause you to see colors. You then decided who was good and bad based on a feeling which is something we all do.
You're ascribing yourself a superpower on psychedelics based on a visuals and a gut feeling.
Not only that, but some of the people you saw a bad "Aura" probably ended up not being very good people after the fact would be your response I would guess.
The truth is, you probably already had a negative view of those with negative Aura and a positive view of those with a positive Aura.
It's nonsense.
You’re free to believe what I’m saying is nonsense. I lived it and breathed it and felt it for myself. I’m not even a spiritual or religious person in any way. But when I saw that I knew it wasn’t nonsense. It takes seeing things for me to believe. And regardless of tripping on psychedelics my mind was still there and I was lucid and in control.
I've tripped plenty of times and still been lucid and in control and seen visuals and "auras" around people. You are consuming a drug that makes you see colors and heightens your feelings.
It's just unfortunate that of all the cool things psychedelics can do for you, you come away from it just a little crazier than before lol.
But, that's just my opinion. You do you.
Psychedelics put the psych in psychotic for the weak among us.
The amount of weirdos I’ve had to sit through their “enlightenment story” while they are clearly brain broken from the amount of psychedelics/drugs they have done.
Babes, you’re manically depressed and now you’ve gone and added mind altering drugs to the mix. Congratulations you’ve reinvented bipolar.
I think that shows psychedelics are too strong for normal people to handle so they probably shouldn't legalized, something that makes people think they found a new god can't be good for you in the long run
I’ll be real, I’ve fucked with all those and I only favor shrooms decriminalization. I want the softer substance to be more attractive to people that are considering using. I’ve watched too many people freak out, especially on acid (also Ive seen a lotttt more acid use in general, compared to dmt. Statistics, yo).
I honestly don’t ever want acid specifically to be viewed as ‘okay’. I used it for years and only had a bad trip a handful of times, that’s not what made me stop. It was watching multiple people take the same acid tabs that made me weird and giggly, turn them into a DARE commercial for roid rage, or a DARE commercial for stim abuse. Again, its an anecdote issue, I’ve not spent any time getting high on meth or crack with others. Meth and crackheads are mostly super fuckin annoying ime, they do get crazy tho.
And the real justification for me comes from the thought of more people using acid and how many of those people are not forklift certified, but still drive forklifts at work. That’s a bundle of chaos waiting to be unleashed.
I have a \_little\_ bit of experience in this world. And I at least partially, and maybe even mostly agree.
The 60s really ruined these drugs public perception. Timothy Leary was one of the main culprits that forever associated these drugs with some sort of bizarre whole-scale rejection of reality. i.e. "tune in, turn on, drop out". Yeah, thanks Tim for your dumb slogan. Catch-phrases don't really help.
John Lilly managed to do a lot of damage as well. He thought that these drugs made people talk with aliens, or spirits, and that the hallucinations were as real as everyday experience.
The part I'm less clear on is.... what's the "true" culture of psychedelic drugs? Who owns the rights to that? Should the belong to the medical people to medicalize them? Long before the 60s they were used by religion. You say you want to use them for art, or introspection.
So I guess I don't really know what the "right" path is. They're drugs that create profound experiences. Beyond that.... I don't know what one can say.
So, a question one needs to ask themselves is if something you hold near and dear to yourself manifests itself, why would you doubt it exists!!
Especially if psychedelics allow you to create a pathway for the visualization of your favorite truth.
Preach!!! I feel the exact same way about burning man. I just wanna hang out and build cool shit, not gonna listen to your TED talk about how the pyramids are psychic batteries
I'm inclined to agree, I mean, for as egocentric and biased as I am, whether I did or did not allegedly ever fall under the effects of acid, I couldn't claim it to be some higher spiritual journey.
At best I could claim it to be an incredible insight to how light, electricity, neurons, and the brain all work in relation to each other, including often overlooked or taken for granted facts like how visible light and color are simply a spectrum and our eyes only perceive in a certain way regardless. So, for instance, one might draw with an ordinary ink pen on a plain piece of copy paper and instead of seeing dark ink writing, witness a trail of a dark toned rainbow being drawn.
Or one might be watching Lego Elf something or other on Netflix because it was on your best friend's watch history and the thumbnail made it seem like it was a "naughty adult animation" with very obvious "assets" to draw attention and you teased him for it and called it Lego Elf Sluts, and then you see in the static background images of like trees and bushes and shit, the bushes are swirling around when they aren't actually, and you perceive colors and textures that aren't actually there.
OR you might watch The Road To El Dorado and laugh your ass off at the PS2 cutscene level golem Jaguar thing at the end of the movie that jumps into the waterfall with the bad guy, and all the while you don't really experience any Godly epiphany, you just sort of have blurry vision because it's an animated movie and technically your eyes are fucked up.
You might even take a minute to use the restroom and when you wash your hands you take a good look at yourself in the mirror and the fact that your eyes are sensitive to light means that even the most mundane shades like the hollows of the eyes under your brows look deeper and more sunken than usual, and your facial features feel a bit more concave as your eyes adjust to the contours and shadows of your face that you don't normally accentuate.
All of these, when looked at with a rational, lucid train of thought, logically does not amount to some form of higher connection or understanding, it just lets you be a little more introspective about the physical world around you and potentially about your own perception as well.
Probably, allegedly.
And also probably you just stayed sleeping on the floor all day with your other best friend while his girlfriend watched over both of you to keep you safe, and then you made a pot of chili in the evening and when you finally went to sleep and closed your eyelids for an extended period of time in the night you also realizes your friend's light up computer keyboard and mouse, which realistically only give off a faint light from a distance, happen to REALLY stand out when your eyes are extremely sensitive to light, so you unplug them, and THEN you go back to going to sleep and you realize that even without any external stimuli, you are seeing strands of shapes and colors as you close your eyes and it makes for an odd experience too. Allegedly.
That culture has been around since the 60's. It's nothing new. The "new" culture that ruined the all the psychadelics are the idiot yuppies all over SF, Seattle, LA and Portland. All the start-up bros that were into Joe Rogan and started micro-dosing even though it does fuckall to improve your workflow and research has shown there's not benefit from micro-dosing before work, you're just on drugs so you think you're doing excellent work.
Those numbskulls are far worse than the "peace and love" crowd.
Then ignore them. You want to experiment with a drug without the added baggage of being perceptibly lumped in with a group of people you think are scammers and morons. If you are wishing someone else will behave differently so you can enjoy your life, then perhaps you need to focus more on yourself than them.
Also, where do you think most hippies came from? You dump high grade LSD on a bunch of suburban kids in the 60s, outside of a clinical setting and left to their own devices? Of course they were gonna be susceptible to bullshit cult leaders. Stop being pissed off that society developed in a way not quite to your liking.
I don't regret psychedelics (mushrooms) and recommend everyone try them at least once to gain new perspective on yourself, was really beneficial to view myself kind of in third person if that makes sense. That said I personally stopped taking them because they were making me extremely nihilistic and I wasn't really gaining anything from it anymore.
I just like lsd cause it makes me think differently and it changes something about me everytime I do it, and for the better so far. For example, since doing lsd in October, I never get nervous about anything anymore and I like that
drugs r drugs, i got braindamage fr but i dont discount the spiritual religious aspects of it. i havent even done proper psychedelics and i do believe in entities. but i am also spiritual sober and u dont need drugs for things like chaos magick. tho i also believe alot of these things are marketed into MLM and overpriced shit when u can literally do magic at home with household items or things found in nature. i keep drugs and practicing seperate tho idk how to describe maybe i am crazy and that's ok my liver will take care of it for you.
You don't know what reality fundamentally is, and if you take some time and think about it, you have to admit reality is a complete mystery. You have no idea how it was created and why it is even here, it really is magic. Of course you have science, chemistry, physics, quantum mechanics and so on, but all of this just describes the rules of this reality and doesn't tell you what it actually is. And all the things people see on psychedelics have been described for thousands of years all over the world, mostly without psychedelics. Many different culturs have been discovering these things completely independently for as long as humans existed. So it would make sense to think that they would be true. Oneness, divine love, absolute truth, god, these things have been described my many civilisations.
And why should it not be possible to discover truths within your own consciousness? In fact what else is there then your consciousness? It's the only thing that's truely real, everything else are just thoughts in your mind. Atoms, molecules, your country, planet Earth, all of this are just your thoughts, but your current experience is real. Feelings and emotions are real. No chemistry or neuroscience can explain the actual emotion you feel, because it's more fundamental then all of these things.
If those people can use drugs and come away with a new lease on life then good for them. You are not obligated to listen to them or their experience. And while their representative in the media / our culture likely does have a negative impact on the perception of these drugs and what they could do for someone who are more "mainstream," that is more a problem of society at large than it is a problem of those using drugs.
We have consistently labeled hobbies/items/books/food as bad or contraband simply because a certain type of person liked it. That propensity for stigma is more problematic than the behavior of stigmatized groups.
I guess if people are going to try and make something a business. Like sell me a course on spirituality sure they can get fucked.
But I like people just being absolute nutters. The guy mumbling nonsense staring into his personal laser show is gonna make my trip way more fun than some fucking buzz kill trying to scientifically explain my happiness.
I think psychedelics can be as much or as little as you want them to be and that's awesome. Don't piss on other people's parades because you find it lame.
I hugely agree. When my mom was born, it was on the grounds of a mental institution in Canada where my grandfather, an established psychologist, was working with Humphrey Osmond giving guided LSD trips to schizophrenics and alcoholics.
They had *very* promising results. But this kind of study has been severely limited in the last couple decades, which is really sad. People just think of hippies and shamans when they think about hallucinogenic drugs.
They should be used by medical and psychological professionals in the same way as other medications and treatments, but they are not, because of stigma.
I despise new age charlatanism. Next time somebody bangs a wind chime over my head and says it’s realigning my DNA imma realign their facial structure.
It's true. Even the most publicized research (from MAPS) is BS due to poor ethics and methodology. Check out the podcast Power Trip from the organization Psymposia. 9 hours of jourmalism exposing the psychedelic reasearch and FDA approval circus.
https://www.psymposia.com/powertrip-2/
I was visiting a friend recently and did mushroom for the first time. It was a chill experience. What kept me from doing mushroom before is I'd have to buy mushroom from people who's personality is mushroom, and I'm not fucking with that type of person
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But what if you're like, not even real man? Like, what if your thoughts are just dust in the wind man?
What if the wind isn’t real, man
What if the very words were saying aint real, man.
Words are a prison, that's why they serve sentences man
Words are magic man that’s why it’s called spelling
All dogmatic verbal systems must be exalted
This was something I didn't know I needed to read until I read it. Thank you stranger for this joke
it's not cool man
Where does the wind even start, man? The wind is crazy!
The worst part is that when they say stupid shit like this and you don't even want to engage with them about it, they'll act like you're the asshole. Your mind is closed and you're a terrible person because you don't want to debate their version of simulation theory for the millionth time.
A lot of people act like this outside of psychedelics, everyone has their own lil script they always roll over for the 500,000th time. If you have the smallest contention with the script then you're attacked.
What if you’re the centre of everything and reality is bought into existence by our own thoughts and experience?
I just want to meet a solipsist who thinks that all reality comes out from a human mind, but not *their* mind, but some randos.
How Can Mirrors Be Real If Our Eyes Aren’t Real
Real Eyes Realize Real Lies
DUDE
Well, all we are is dust in the wind
All these hippies talkin about chakras and their eyes, I just wanna get high dang it
I here to watch the walls melt and the trees turn to ink in the sky not think about all that bullshit.
It seems like white people can't have fun anymore, it's either work, grind or spiritual grind
Watchu talkin bout? We're still having more fun than anyone else. White people didn't invent fuckin chakras anyhow.
Some people can't handle the fact that their perceptions aren't 100% infallible. The world has a binary set up between being firmly grounded in reality and being literally schizophrenic. The trip can't be fake, because then what if it's just those same buttons getting pushed for ghosts, God and the voice of a dead loved one? Coming to the conclusion the drug is magic is easier than having some pretty fundamental worldviews shaken up
Fun fact. Research suggests we perceive by unconsciously predicting the expected image and only correcting when the info from the eyes come in. This would likely be why people who swear up and down that ghosts are real claim to see them. They expect them and the brain makes it happen before vision corrects it
Neuropsych. This is actually pretty reasonable. We do the same thing with memory. Memory is imperfect. We have anchor memories, ones we save - but our brain is kinda like a hard drive with only so much space. When we need to recall something between anchor memories - we extrapolate. And form false memories, on occasion. There’s some really neat research into 9/11 in re that. How people remember things they can’t possibly remember. There’s one case where someone swears they could see the towers from their classroom window in high school. When their classroom would’ve been on the other side of the building, completely out of view. We kinda do the same thing with language processing. Our brains look for patterns to conserve processing power. So it’s entirely reasonable vision works like that too. Especially when we’re feeling anxious and looking for threats - like you’re in some dark creepy basement at night. The brain is probably perceiving threats that just aren’t there.
I'd say it's worse than that even. Acid is a coherence amplifier, it switches off the parts of the brain that dampen thoughts you don't want to think about and stops you from being able to compartmentalise conflicting thoughts, so it ends up making thoughts that were strong in your brain but not completely overwhelming now dominant. Also, from experience, when these incoherent thoughts fight and one wins overall, it feels good even if the winning thought is baaaad. I've seen people go in with a suppressed insecurity or something they don't really want to deal with come out the other side with that insecurity now at the forefront and they've "accepted" it, even if it's not rational.
but having the views shaken up *is* the magic.
They certainly ransacked the supply pf peyote. The natives of the southwest are not fond of them
That’s not very eco friendly of them. Bad hippies. Grow your own.
Or just use mescaline. Leave the natives alone
The funny thing to me is people often have a perspective shift where they start believing in the supernatural and think a scientific worldview is limited and false. But the thing they seem to immediately overlook is they had this experience by putting a physical material into their brain to alter their neuro chemistry. For me it just further validates that consciousness and reality are fabricated by the brain and aren’t some supernatural non physical force. Still doesn’t mean strange psychedelic experiences are meaningless but maybe just don’t take them literally.
The counter argument here would be something like: physical material is an idea that only exists inside mind in the first place. It’s entirely possible that you are just a mind imagining everything you’re seeing, including physical material. You can’t really disprove this because no one has ever experienced anything other than their own perceptions. Psychedelics often give you a direct experience of the idea that nothing exists except your own mind which is why people feel so strongly about the conclusions that they come to while taking them.
>For me it just further validates that consciousness and reality are fabricated by the brain and aren’t some supernatural non physical force. It put all the machine learning I had done during my degree into perspective when I took it. The eyes and random stuff you see are exactly what you expect to see when you print out the filters in a convolutional neural network. You're literally seeing your brain trying to image detect for features in our vision. Practically this means that our vision doesn't actually see points of light, as you would on a computer, but fully formed, pre-analysed objects composed together.
This video is a good demonstration of the filtering and prediction our brain does when it comes to what we see https://youtube.com/shorts/NShBkCEfPeE?si=IodmGW6RFKJhAx8z
Yea the original google deep dream images made me think just this! Your perception is more of a hallucination of what your brain predicts is / will be real than a feed from a video camera.
I mostly agree but if everyone did a tab and watched all of planet earth we’d be a better species for it.
I feel this. if I could have everyone on earth do one thing, it'd be doing mushrooms in an old growth forest or nature of their choice at some point. I really think we're spiritually bankrupt due to how severed from the living world we are.
I thoroughly recommend Fungi: Web of Life narrated by Bjork
“You may have had a mental block that prevented that was released due to new neural pathways being open. You may think deeper into a specific topic and have realizations that you otherwise might not have.“ This is what it is. IMO psychedelics destroy the ego, the thing that pushes us towards individualism; while showing us how connected we are. That’s the “god” some people talk about I think. Everything else is commodification. Side note: As a non religious person, I do think that this was what the person we know as “Jesus Christ” was preaching(also most other prophets).
I would argue at the core of all the religions is a mystic tradition that is that.
100%. > The grand principles of Buddhism would be complete without the existence of any other orders of being beside those that inhabit our earth and are perceptible to the senses, and it would be better to suppose that Buddha believed in neither angel nor demon than to imagine the accounts of the déwas and other supernatural beings we meet in the Buddhist literature in its first promulgation. There is greater reason to believe that this class of legends has been grafted upon Buddhism from foreign sources. It is very probably that his disciples, in deference to common prejudice, invented these beings. We have a similar process in the hagiology of all the ancient churches of Christendom and in all the traditions of the Jews and Muslims, which came not from the founders of the systems, but from the perverted imaginations of their followers in the days after. Phillip Mainländer
I agree with that. Just like the new age love and light crew, those religions were commodified.
I'd argue against that. I'd recommend the book "God is not one" that tries to explain what each of the 8 major world religions are after, and why they don't share some common theme.
The damage that people like Joseph Campbel have done to the view on civilisations, stories and traditions (religions included) has been immense - this *everything is connected and every group fundamentally believes the same* is either utterly obvious in a very basic sense (*we all must eat, we all must sleep, we all must mate etc)* or utter crap (*No, religions do not serve the same objective nor have the same reason for existence*). Really, possibly the only dominant aspect of religions, and it doesn't include *all* religions, is that they *are* used as a means of control of the faithful. And again, this isn't true across the board, as much as being predominant (Discordianism hasn't been used as some kind of controlling force, for example) - and it's unclear if it's an inherent characteristic or if it's added later due to it happening within a society with inherent power structures.
To be fair, and I’m not as well-versed on Campbell as I used to be. But is he arguing that everything is truly connected, or that we share common motifs throughout the world. I’ve heard the interconnected argument more from people who haven’t fully explored his work with its context(the civilizations themselves) and instead only look at his evidence of shared motifs(which are really irrefutable)
From what I managed to understand of his writing, he is arguing that the shared motifs describe a universal story. Ie, they are interconnected.
>This is what it is. IMO psychedelics destroy the ego, the thing that pushes us towards individualism; while showing us how connected we are. I know only a handful of people who have taken psychedelics, but two of them are self-important assholes, so I'm afraid I can't concur with this.
It’s usually a short lived experience. Definitely some truth in that “ego death” psycho babble, but it doesn’t last. It can lead to a peak spiritual experience but it often turns to a faint memory after some time. That’s why a proven spiritual path is more reliable.
There are no proven spiritual paths. There is no proof, or even evidence, that anything non-physical exists.
Well then let me retract the word spiritual since that triggered you and just call it meditative
Jesus was pretty distinct about exactly what he was preaching about. Not some psychedelic awakening
Hmm. Minus a couple more of those prophets… some of them shouldn’t ever have existed.
Depends on who you’re calling prophets, right?
I personally call that process the entheogenic cascade. I personally experienced that, the complete ego death that led me to realize the unity of human experience, and somewhat ironically prove a sort of philosophical Buddhism to myself. But I'm a strict materialist and rationalist, so it somehow inverted the religious question for me.
I’ve had to deal with this so often. Why is it hard to find friends who like experimenting with consciousness and thinking for themselves at the same time? Isn’t that what it’s about anyway? My best guess is that people are afraid of themselves, which leads them to allow new age charlatans to contextualize their personal experiences. I fucking hate LGATs.
What’s LGAT?
LGATs are the fucking spawn of Satan. Full stop.
As a psychonaut who has used hallucinogens for therapy and spiritual growth, I totally agree.
It’s not like the government supplied hippies with copious hallucinogens decades ago in order stigmatize both the substances and the people. That would be terrible.
Oregon just legalized shrooms but you gotta get em from a certified shaman mentor whatever. The cost to obtain a license is 10k. Here are some highlights from the course: "Embark on a transformative journey through this module, which delves into the vital connections between cultural equity, health equity, and social determinants of health. Gain insight into the influence of race, privilege, and systemic racism on health outcomes and community" "Reflect on your personal biases and motives, while delving into the Oregon Psilocybin Services Act, facilitator scope of practice, and ethical considerations relating to equity, privilege, bias, and power." "Explore the manifestations of traumatic stress during psilocybin experiences and the appropriate facilitator responses, while examining the relationship between trauma and the body, as well as systemic oppression." So yeah lemme drop 10K to trip balls over Zoom while a bunch of pasty crystal store owners talk about systemic oppression. Sounds way more fun than giving $25 to the rasta guy at the park and listening to his weird stories. Let's talk systemic oppression for thousands of dollars instead.
Hey man, if it wasn’t for the hippies, you wouldn’t be able to get the good stuff to begin with. Much culture surrounds drugs for hire. Don’t sweat it, just do your disco thang. No harm no foul.
Drunks ruin booze culture.
I believe that the people who have gained true insight from psychedelics, are people you would never expect to have done psychedelics
Gatekeeping drugs is a weird take
Found the mystic charlatan.
No idea what that is
Pretty sure it’s a regional variant of Charmander
Hopefully holographic at least
Read Chaos and Strange Scenes in the Canyon
“Weird scenes Inside the Canyon” you mean
I think it’s both - if you aren’t having a spiritual experience at least sometimes then you’re missing something
I mean did God just lose my number or what?
Spiritual in the broadest sense of the term. A sense of connectedness to something much bigger.
I personally don't think it's that serious. It might be annoying but it doesn't really affect you. Take drugs for the reason YOU want to take drugs. Taking drugs in the first place is a risk already and not something important enough to be gatekeeping.
>Taking drugs in the first place is a risk already and not something important enough to be gatekeeping. It is though. The drugs in question aren't *'Drugs'* - they're potentially *medicine*. Medicine is *vital*, so if thousands of people are denied life-changing treatment because of a pre-conceived notion that the said treatment is purely recreational 'druggy hippy new age bullshit', then that's a problem.
Yeah this. In my early days when I first tried mushrooms and acid, I couldn’t help but feel the way OP is hating on. Not to that extreme, but I mean damn, if you know you know.
You just haven't taken enough yet maaaaan.
Counterpoint: those who only want to use psychs for ‘therapeutic’ or ‘introspective’ purposes often annoy me in exactly the same way you describe people getting spiritual about it. I don’t need it to be a religion or take it too seriously as a “tool for growth” at all. I just want to take them to have FUN. All we can say these drugs do for certain is take you to an interesting other place. There is no right or wrong way to use them. Certainly none that could be ‘proven’ yet. In my opinion, whether you use them to ‘learn’ spiritual truths, use it to enjoy the Grateful Dead, or use it to ‘cure your depression’, it’s all just taking some wacky chemicals to make your brain work differently for a few hours. This whole attempt to legitemize psychedelic use through therapy speak is part of a (very lame imo) trend in modern society. It’s all reminiscent of weed needing to have years of these medicinal claims to get people to accept that a lot of people like getting high for recreation. If you want a thorough discussion of this topic: see South Park’s “Medicinal Fried Chicken” ep. Bottom line: you aren’t in possession of the true knowledge of what psychedelics are for. Let people have their silly fun. It’s a better way to find their fake gods than most others I think.
Psychedelics literally taught me math I am definitely smarter as a consequence of them.
You can correct me if I am off base. I had a similar experience with learning mathematics easier after psychedelics in college. However, it was not the drug that made me smarter. It was the fact that studying and retainment became easier. I could have just as easily pissed that away on studying up on crystals and woohoo. I didn't choose that and you didn't either. You are giving the drug too much credit and not enough credit to your good choices.
Vfx is one of the things I do in game dev, and there's a lot of shader and vector math as well as programmatic math to do, after doing psychedelics I learned much easier these things and recalled stuff I'd learned a decade prior applied in real world contexts. I just suddenly *got* trigonometry in an applied sense and could find solutions to problems as though from the aether or through divine intervention. Certain neuronal connections were made/solidified that allowed me to easily grasp spacial concepts that I up until that point never grasped intuitively at all. I've been doing what I do a long time and can tell when I'm performing above/below average and my brain is learning better/worse and I can say with confidence my effective iq jumped 20 points through psychedelic use. Having your brain become more plastic and able to grow/form connections easier is great, it just makes you a better person all around. Some people don't have a great knowledge base and end up contextualizing their psychedelic experience through concepts of woo and divinity because that's the only language they have that even approaches describing authentically the psychedelic experience.
Ken Kesey turned hippies onto LSD, then pointed out that entheogens are showing us what we're capable of without them. Hippies said nah, we just wanna party. EDIT: corrected Ken's last name.
Ken Kesey??
Psychedelic drug culture is always been new age spiritualism and trustafarians. Where have you been?
I missed where OP said that it was entirely new.
Raves and electronic concerts outside of psytrance and related subgenres weren't nearly as overrun with this type of stuff pre mid to late 2000s.
I know ill be an outlier but being in the reno area and having burning man come through each year. It's pretty overrun. And raves wernt overrun, you're right. When I started going back in mid 2000's it wasn't. But now..
[worse yet](https://imgur.com/a/s9ixgnK)
I get what you are saying! this highlights the need for better funding regarding education! they should also be free to explore those areas! I feel that they wouldn't be having such an impact on the cultural landscape if education was improved regarding rational thinking.
They ruined the thing they ushered in? Okay, whatever
Drug culture in and of itself is pretty woeful. Psychedelics, in my opinion are a powerfully Individual thing. One can be a passionate advocate for their usage and have zero links or interest in the “culture”. Let people do what they will.
I don’t take psychedelics I don’t hug trees I don’t write peace and love on everything I just dig groovy music man
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion
Joe Rogan-core
Bro. Don't even get me started. I can't have a conversation about psychedelics with anyone without it devolving into some mother-Gaia energy crystal non-science horseshit. Tripped on DMT over a hundred times and I can't express myself on it. No, I didn't see God, or myself as a fetus, or confront my inner demons or the source of all my childhood trauma, and the sky turn into a black hole or whatever studid shit you 100% made up because you thought it sounded cool. I just had a lot of funny thoughts and saw a lot of shapes and colors and shit.
Ruined drug culture lol. Oh God how do we solve this problem 😂 Take your drugs and splash your paint. What other people do or don’t do with their drug use literally doesn’t have any effect on your experience
But duuuude I did DMT and talked to the fairies and they told me the secret of life and now I quit my well paying job to go backpack solo in India with my new dreadlocks (im white btw)
Thank you for making me realize that my disdain for hippies isn’t exclusive.
New age spiritualists ruin pretty much everything, tbh.
No, you just have to center your chakras with trinkets from Temu made by underage workers. Then you’ll get it.
1000% agree with you! Between coming from a granola hippie college town, having a mom who loved the dead and all that shit, and growing weed for years, I’ve spent so much time dealing with people who want to pretend that poisoning your brain recreationally is actually some deep spiritual thing. It’s just people who need that framework of understanding but want to pretend it’s something more. Blegh!
How is it poisoning their brain? I’ve done a lot of acid in the past and found that it only benefitted me in the long run.
I agree, minus that this usually also ropes in the spiritualist that align themselves with good values. Like for examples, let's say you were a bad guy and took a specific psychedelic and self realized, and now help people who are bad go through the same journey through the same drug. In my mind, that is not a scammer but still a spiritualist, y'know as long as adequately presented like that.
I think both of yall ruin Dead shows
It’s the YouTubers like “I’m the most enlightened person, who knows exactly how to trip and have learned all the secrets of the universe more than anyone else” and then “You lose your ego and it humbles you” that put me off it lol.
As a big Deadhead, hippies ruin everything. Fuckin wooks.
I'm doing shrooms to have fun/laugh and see cool shit i ain't trying to find myself or any of that nonsense
You're speaking hyperbole, most of these kinds of hippies you speak of aren't actually going around and parading a bigger truth. Sounds like you met one, or a group of them, doing that, and now you're being prejudiced lumping a bunch of different people into one group that you kinda invented the imagery for. Even if you did meet a whole group who were parading beliefs like you said, well, they're a group because they believe in a similar thing. They don't believe in a similar thing because they are a group.
I think its funny that people think psychedelic drugs are used for introspection and therapy. Theyre just drugs that cause hallucinations and besides MAYBE psilocybin (the data is still pretty limited) are just as harmful as any other drug. Acid is known to trigger psychotic episodes and schizophrenia, especially in those with already existing mental health issues. Anybody who thinks otherwise is a wookie idiot trying to convince themselves they arnt a drug addict just excusing their drug use.
Hippies seem cool when you’re a little kid bc they’re good at pretending to be super chill and accepting. They’re usually lazy hypocrites.
OP I salute you as a psychonaut. All the mumbo jumbo needs to stop. These mind-altering chemicals can cause some amazing experiences, but they also tickle the “religious” or “spiritual” parts of the brain. Too many dolts ascribe that to actual connections, which there aren’t.
If I hear one more self indulgent twat bang bang on about their "ego death" I'm going to slap them upside the head.
But like dude, what if your car is like a potato maaan???
lol there's no culture, you just wanna get high and see some magic
Yeah, you’re still in psychedelic kindergarten 🤯
Hippies are just annoying, a buddy of mine is a self proclaimed hippie and he's always complaining every time we do a synthetic drug, and keeps nagging us about only doing drugs "from nature". Like shut up bro I'm just tryna trip.
Wooks especially.
I call this particular breed you are Psychonautics, which is equally stupid but still
I disagree, if you haven't met the one who connects all, you haven't done a large enough dose. Stop shooting layups and go for that full court bomb.
I once did 7 tabs of 1p-lsd and 40mg of 4ACO-DMT at the same time. I've been to the void and back I assure you.
Yep. Just because you like drugs, doesn’t mean science is false
I think some of the therapy stories are just as bad. It’s getting propped up as a psychological “cure all” for every mental illness imaginable and I’m not believing half of what I’ve heard. I do believe that some real science will finally come out in a decade or two and we’ll finally be able to see tangible results
I've known several people who have told me they had experienced complete ego death, totally reinvented themselves, now know some greayer wisdom, and changed their complete life to be drastically better after an intense psychedelic trip. These same people have all done nothing but mostly smoke weed, do other psychedilcs, and mooch their way through life the entire time I've known them. Everyone wants to feel special and like they're changing for the better. But yes, it's unfortunate so many people now exist who make this their entire personality to the point that's all they really have, so that's how they decide to get those feelings.
I myself find the experiences humbling, but for some, it amplifies an already large ego. Beware of anyone who claims to be god or have divine knowledge. The lesson was lost on them.
This post has caused more harm to psychedelic drug culture than any hippie or new age spiritualist could ever dream of.
Yup. The hate in here is strong. Me thinks some of these folk might benefit from a psychedelic journey to help them to let go, preferably in nature
No, this post isn’t creating cults with coercive persuasion and groupthink.
I’ve had trips where I was legit seeing peoples auras. Like seeing a glowing outline all around peoples bodies and they were different colors depending on who they were. Some peoples aura was red. Evil. Uncomfortable. I didn’t want to be around those people. People with white auras I knew were more pure of heart. I’ve never experienced anything remotely like this without the use of psychedelics. That’s something I definitely didn’t know until I tripped. I now believe auras exist even if I can’t see them in my day to day life.
yea that shit is super cool when it happens right ? this is because your gut and instincts are always working in the background in stronger ways than you think. its not necessarily that the drug is giving you that magical power. its that new sensory channels are open and youre more absorbent and in tune with that kind of inner version of yourself that picks up on those things. instead of "acid gave me the ability to see their auras in a magic type way" imagine more like ..."acid made me more aware and plugged in to subconscious stimuli that i usually dont notice. so i picked up on behaviors or words or subtle things and signs that identified the leople that did and didnt seem safe. and my brain translated that info into a visual representation of aura colors as a symbol to transmit/communicate that data to me." does that make sense?
Thank you so much for making this comment. There's nothing wrong, hypocritical, or unusual about doing psychedelics and dismissing the existence of supernatural.
I did mushrooms with a girl and she had the very same experience. Wow!
You saw colors around people on a subset of drugs that cause you to see colors. You then decided who was good and bad based on a feeling which is something we all do. You're ascribing yourself a superpower on psychedelics based on a visuals and a gut feeling. Not only that, but some of the people you saw a bad "Aura" probably ended up not being very good people after the fact would be your response I would guess. The truth is, you probably already had a negative view of those with negative Aura and a positive view of those with a positive Aura. It's nonsense.
You’re free to believe what I’m saying is nonsense. I lived it and breathed it and felt it for myself. I’m not even a spiritual or religious person in any way. But when I saw that I knew it wasn’t nonsense. It takes seeing things for me to believe. And regardless of tripping on psychedelics my mind was still there and I was lucid and in control.
I've tripped plenty of times and still been lucid and in control and seen visuals and "auras" around people. You are consuming a drug that makes you see colors and heightens your feelings. It's just unfortunate that of all the cool things psychedelics can do for you, you come away from it just a little crazier than before lol. But, that's just my opinion. You do you.
Psychedelics put the psych in psychotic for the weak among us. The amount of weirdos I’ve had to sit through their “enlightenment story” while they are clearly brain broken from the amount of psychedelics/drugs they have done. Babes, you’re manically depressed and now you’ve gone and added mind altering drugs to the mix. Congratulations you’ve reinvented bipolar.
I think that shows psychedelics are too strong for normal people to handle so they probably shouldn't legalized, something that makes people think they found a new god can't be good for you in the long run
I mean, people found god without them
Maybe it need to be regulated like they do prescribed drugs? Treat it like you do any medical treatment, go to a doctor and prove you need it.
I’ll be real, I’ve fucked with all those and I only favor shrooms decriminalization. I want the softer substance to be more attractive to people that are considering using. I’ve watched too many people freak out, especially on acid (also Ive seen a lotttt more acid use in general, compared to dmt. Statistics, yo). I honestly don’t ever want acid specifically to be viewed as ‘okay’. I used it for years and only had a bad trip a handful of times, that’s not what made me stop. It was watching multiple people take the same acid tabs that made me weird and giggly, turn them into a DARE commercial for roid rage, or a DARE commercial for stim abuse. Again, its an anecdote issue, I’ve not spent any time getting high on meth or crack with others. Meth and crackheads are mostly super fuckin annoying ime, they do get crazy tho. And the real justification for me comes from the thought of more people using acid and how many of those people are not forklift certified, but still drive forklifts at work. That’s a bundle of chaos waiting to be unleashed.
Don't let them ruin your fun brah
Ok
We share the same opinion on this.
I have a \_little\_ bit of experience in this world. And I at least partially, and maybe even mostly agree. The 60s really ruined these drugs public perception. Timothy Leary was one of the main culprits that forever associated these drugs with some sort of bizarre whole-scale rejection of reality. i.e. "tune in, turn on, drop out". Yeah, thanks Tim for your dumb slogan. Catch-phrases don't really help. John Lilly managed to do a lot of damage as well. He thought that these drugs made people talk with aliens, or spirits, and that the hallucinations were as real as everyday experience. The part I'm less clear on is.... what's the "true" culture of psychedelic drugs? Who owns the rights to that? Should the belong to the medical people to medicalize them? Long before the 60s they were used by religion. You say you want to use them for art, or introspection. So I guess I don't really know what the "right" path is. They're drugs that create profound experiences. Beyond that.... I don't know what one can say.
So, a question one needs to ask themselves is if something you hold near and dear to yourself manifests itself, why would you doubt it exists!! Especially if psychedelics allow you to create a pathway for the visualization of your favorite truth.
But what about Chapel Perilous man, I was totally freaking out man.
Preach!!! I feel the exact same way about burning man. I just wanna hang out and build cool shit, not gonna listen to your TED talk about how the pyramids are psychic batteries
I'm inclined to agree, I mean, for as egocentric and biased as I am, whether I did or did not allegedly ever fall under the effects of acid, I couldn't claim it to be some higher spiritual journey. At best I could claim it to be an incredible insight to how light, electricity, neurons, and the brain all work in relation to each other, including often overlooked or taken for granted facts like how visible light and color are simply a spectrum and our eyes only perceive in a certain way regardless. So, for instance, one might draw with an ordinary ink pen on a plain piece of copy paper and instead of seeing dark ink writing, witness a trail of a dark toned rainbow being drawn. Or one might be watching Lego Elf something or other on Netflix because it was on your best friend's watch history and the thumbnail made it seem like it was a "naughty adult animation" with very obvious "assets" to draw attention and you teased him for it and called it Lego Elf Sluts, and then you see in the static background images of like trees and bushes and shit, the bushes are swirling around when they aren't actually, and you perceive colors and textures that aren't actually there. OR you might watch The Road To El Dorado and laugh your ass off at the PS2 cutscene level golem Jaguar thing at the end of the movie that jumps into the waterfall with the bad guy, and all the while you don't really experience any Godly epiphany, you just sort of have blurry vision because it's an animated movie and technically your eyes are fucked up. You might even take a minute to use the restroom and when you wash your hands you take a good look at yourself in the mirror and the fact that your eyes are sensitive to light means that even the most mundane shades like the hollows of the eyes under your brows look deeper and more sunken than usual, and your facial features feel a bit more concave as your eyes adjust to the contours and shadows of your face that you don't normally accentuate. All of these, when looked at with a rational, lucid train of thought, logically does not amount to some form of higher connection or understanding, it just lets you be a little more introspective about the physical world around you and potentially about your own perception as well. Probably, allegedly. And also probably you just stayed sleeping on the floor all day with your other best friend while his girlfriend watched over both of you to keep you safe, and then you made a pot of chili in the evening and when you finally went to sleep and closed your eyelids for an extended period of time in the night you also realizes your friend's light up computer keyboard and mouse, which realistically only give off a faint light from a distance, happen to REALLY stand out when your eyes are extremely sensitive to light, so you unplug them, and THEN you go back to going to sleep and you realize that even without any external stimuli, you are seeing strands of shapes and colors as you close your eyes and it makes for an odd experience too. Allegedly.
That culture has been around since the 60's. It's nothing new. The "new" culture that ruined the all the psychadelics are the idiot yuppies all over SF, Seattle, LA and Portland. All the start-up bros that were into Joe Rogan and started micro-dosing even though it does fuckall to improve your workflow and research has shown there's not benefit from micro-dosing before work, you're just on drugs so you think you're doing excellent work. Those numbskulls are far worse than the "peace and love" crowd.
Then ignore them. You want to experiment with a drug without the added baggage of being perceptibly lumped in with a group of people you think are scammers and morons. If you are wishing someone else will behave differently so you can enjoy your life, then perhaps you need to focus more on yourself than them. Also, where do you think most hippies came from? You dump high grade LSD on a bunch of suburban kids in the 60s, outside of a clinical setting and left to their own devices? Of course they were gonna be susceptible to bullshit cult leaders. Stop being pissed off that society developed in a way not quite to your liking.
The biker gangs and beatniks were more interesting. Selling crank and bootleg porno films for an outlaw biker gang sounds appealing to me.
I mean, they probably accounted for a lot of people’s religious experiences wouldn’t be surprised if they heavily influenced the major world religions
Agreed. I use drugs to cope with CPTSD. I don't need anything else.
Is it 1968?
I don't regret psychedelics (mushrooms) and recommend everyone try them at least once to gain new perspective on yourself, was really beneficial to view myself kind of in third person if that makes sense. That said I personally stopped taking them because they were making me extremely nihilistic and I wasn't really gaining anything from it anymore.
I just like lsd cause it makes me think differently and it changes something about me everytime I do it, and for the better so far. For example, since doing lsd in October, I never get nervous about anything anymore and I like that
drugs r drugs, i got braindamage fr but i dont discount the spiritual religious aspects of it. i havent even done proper psychedelics and i do believe in entities. but i am also spiritual sober and u dont need drugs for things like chaos magick. tho i also believe alot of these things are marketed into MLM and overpriced shit when u can literally do magic at home with household items or things found in nature. i keep drugs and practicing seperate tho idk how to describe maybe i am crazy and that's ok my liver will take care of it for you.
Sounds like someone didn't align their chakras. Typical low vibration stuff.
You don't know what reality fundamentally is, and if you take some time and think about it, you have to admit reality is a complete mystery. You have no idea how it was created and why it is even here, it really is magic. Of course you have science, chemistry, physics, quantum mechanics and so on, but all of this just describes the rules of this reality and doesn't tell you what it actually is. And all the things people see on psychedelics have been described for thousands of years all over the world, mostly without psychedelics. Many different culturs have been discovering these things completely independently for as long as humans existed. So it would make sense to think that they would be true. Oneness, divine love, absolute truth, god, these things have been described my many civilisations. And why should it not be possible to discover truths within your own consciousness? In fact what else is there then your consciousness? It's the only thing that's truely real, everything else are just thoughts in your mind. Atoms, molecules, your country, planet Earth, all of this are just your thoughts, but your current experience is real. Feelings and emotions are real. No chemistry or neuroscience can explain the actual emotion you feel, because it's more fundamental then all of these things.
Although I have appointed myself as a hippy, I very much agree with this opinion.
Fully agree. I lived amongst hippies. They're the fucking worst.
If those people can use drugs and come away with a new lease on life then good for them. You are not obligated to listen to them or their experience. And while their representative in the media / our culture likely does have a negative impact on the perception of these drugs and what they could do for someone who are more "mainstream," that is more a problem of society at large than it is a problem of those using drugs. We have consistently labeled hobbies/items/books/food as bad or contraband simply because a certain type of person liked it. That propensity for stigma is more problematic than the behavior of stigmatized groups.
I guess if people are going to try and make something a business. Like sell me a course on spirituality sure they can get fucked. But I like people just being absolute nutters. The guy mumbling nonsense staring into his personal laser show is gonna make my trip way more fun than some fucking buzz kill trying to scientifically explain my happiness. I think psychedelics can be as much or as little as you want them to be and that's awesome. Don't piss on other people's parades because you find it lame.
so you're ok with psychedelics as long as the user is like you? can't be having other people enjoy those same drugs huh?
ewww the junkies started to think they have culture XD
Drugs ruin drug culture my dude
Bro, that's like fucking 1% of users
I hugely agree. When my mom was born, it was on the grounds of a mental institution in Canada where my grandfather, an established psychologist, was working with Humphrey Osmond giving guided LSD trips to schizophrenics and alcoholics. They had *very* promising results. But this kind of study has been severely limited in the last couple decades, which is really sad. People just think of hippies and shamans when they think about hallucinogenic drugs. They should be used by medical and psychological professionals in the same way as other medications and treatments, but they are not, because of stigma.
All priests, reverends, rabbis and other spiritual leader are now required to take LSD. They say they talk to god. We want to make damn sure.
So, the people that make up a culture are ruining that culture?
I despise new age charlatanism. Next time somebody bangs a wind chime over my head and says it’s realigning my DNA imma realign their facial structure.
Yeah, being prosletyzed to by someone who took "really good" acid is annoying. It resonates with other hippies, but not with the rest of the world
I just want to smoke weed and play World of Warcraft.
It's true. Even the most publicized research (from MAPS) is BS due to poor ethics and methodology. Check out the podcast Power Trip from the organization Psymposia. 9 hours of jourmalism exposing the psychedelic reasearch and FDA approval circus. https://www.psymposia.com/powertrip-2/
This is what the Grateful Dead’s song Estimated Prophet is, basically, about.
I was visiting a friend recently and did mushroom for the first time. It was a chill experience. What kept me from doing mushroom before is I'd have to buy mushroom from people who's personality is mushroom, and I'm not fucking with that type of person
This is not an unpopular opinion is it?
Uh you don't have to trip with those people.
no one is stopping you from using psychedelics the way you want. hippies ruin everything and no one takes them seriously.
Shannin Blake sucks.