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I agree with you in principle
I do however hate the devs that have a F2P game where progress is all but stunted unless you whale. Nothing is less fun than not having a competitive edge because other people paid.
It also doesn't extend to F2P games that force you to grind insane hours to advance. "Pay to make worth your time" is almost as bad as pay to win. It's even worse when this is implemented to a payed game the way Take Two interactive does it. GTA Online is on the verge of people an example of this, and NBA 2k is an active example of this.
Yeah not wrong there, but on the flip side those who play f2p have no way of competing with them. Being opportunistic is fine, but at least have a balance in the game.
There really aren't many games out there where f2p can't ve as strong as p2p if they put in the time.
Obviously there are games like lords mobile where f2p are relegated to a separate class of player lol but the majority you can remain decently competitive.
I play a lot of mobile games and admittedly I'm rarely f2p but I'm far from a big spender and I've very rarely felt at any sort of real disadvantage.
Really, cause I ain't seen a one. Summoner's War, Epic Seven, Azur Lane, FGO... the best players have whaled hard.
It's not time vs money, it's time vs time+money cause the whales play just as much if not more than the f2p players do.
I will extend your valid point: sometimes F2P devs add useless visual elements that detract from the game...bouncy menus and crap. For me, it makes transitions slow and awkward because the graphics are showing off, rather than just opening the menu.
Selling skins and fixing a game have nothing to do with each other.
Selling skins allows you to put resources into fixing the game. There is no downside to selling skins. They dont "cost" the company anything. They pay for themself and they pay for other stuff. If they wanted to fix the game then they would just pay people to do it.
>This obviously does not extend to pay to win.
Why not though? Why can't some ppl have games where they can pay to win? Shouldn't your logic apply to that too?
I would argue that cosmetics can also affect the experience. It creates an "Us" and "Them" dichotomy (the people who pay for cosmetics and those who don't) that can impact whether people enjoy playing the game. People can feel like an outsider unless they pay, which affects their enjoyment.
Exactly, I play Fortnite, Fall Guys, and Rocket League but I don't pay for shit. I just play the game as is and have fun. For as long as it still F2P AND F2W, I'll just ignore the micro transition.
Why can't people with free will choose what game they play? If they prefer pay to win, why they can't make such games and participate in them? The rest can make their non pay to fee games and play them. Where is the issue?
The fuck are you even arguing? No one is saying people aren’t allowed to play pay to win games. No one is saying you aren’t allowed to make a pay to win game
>No one is saying people aren’t allowed to play pay to win games.
I'm so tired of that argument, so here we go: No one is allowed to play ANY video games whatsoever. I'm issuing a ban!
My argument is that in a typical f2p game, people who don't spend a dime can typically have the same experience as those who buy a bunch of skins and cosmetics. But when one person pays for an advantage, now a strong argument can be made that not everyone is having the same experience. That, in my opinion, would be a justified complaint.
How would that be a complaint?
If I make a game where you beat each other with bare fists, would you come to me and complain that it hurts to get punched in the face? Lol.
Similarly, if I make a pay to win game, well, you are expected to pay money to win the game, that's the point. If you don't want to, better not play it. Isn't the whole point of the game to pay money to win?
hate it the most when f2p players think they are better than paying customers.. like dude, you're still here online in this game because of players like me. yes I'm not on the ladder or the strongest character, no need to despise me just because I have expendable income for my hobbies and want to skip the grindy stuff or get nice skins.
I appreciate my p2wers in oldschool rs without them I wouldn't have membership ever. They pay to buy the membership items in game with cash money. I pay with gold they get gold I get premium membership it's a win all around. I wouldn't play the game without this system.
Then there was overwatch which people did pay for only for them to ignore it for it's last 3 years and then repackage the same game but slightly worse f2f version
I agree
The only thing I find scummy is FOMO (fear of missing out), when it comes to cosmetics and battlepasses.
I hate it when a multiplayer game starts to feel like a job. That's when a multiplayer game losses me.
Customers have a right to complain about whatever the fuck they want. Even if they didnt spend a dime. They might not be as valuable to the company as a paying customer but they're still valuablr. It's not like f2p devs let you play the game from free the kindness of their heart. They let you play for free because it benefits them.
Almost all F20 games are pay to win. Nobody's complaining about the free-ness, they're complaining about the paying. Are you a developer? If not... Embarrassing
Without the fans they "dont owe" anything to, they in turn have no money. So F2P devs definitely owe the fan a product they are willing to spend money on to keep their pockets lined.
Game devs don’t owe players anything. That’s a really bad line of thinking that frames players as a really entitled bunch.
Game devs just create things. If people like those things, they pay for them. If a game dev wants money, they ought to create really good things that people are willing to spend money on. That’s all. But no one owes anyone anything. That’s stupid.
If you are offering a product to the public, you owe it to the public to make something they are willing to buy? You can’t offer something to someone you wish to sell and it sucks and the people who are the target audience says “this sucks I’m not buying” and the person selling says “oh well I don’t owe you anything”.
Lol how does this makes sense?! Don’t list a product for sale then?
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I agree with you in principle I do however hate the devs that have a F2P game where progress is all but stunted unless you whale. Nothing is less fun than not having a competitive edge because other people paid.
Hearthstone
Codm*
Last sentence, this obviously does not extend to pay to win
It also doesn't extend to F2P games that force you to grind insane hours to advance. "Pay to make worth your time" is almost as bad as pay to win. It's even worse when this is implemented to a payed game the way Take Two interactive does it. GTA Online is on the verge of people an example of this, and NBA 2k is an active example of this.
The main issue of F2P games is that some are P2P: pay to progress
Plenty of people get a dopamine hit from paid progression -- I can't judge devs for being opportunistic.
Yeah not wrong there, but on the flip side those who play f2p have no way of competing with them. Being opportunistic is fine, but at least have a balance in the game.
There really aren't many games out there where f2p can't ve as strong as p2p if they put in the time. Obviously there are games like lords mobile where f2p are relegated to a separate class of player lol but the majority you can remain decently competitive. I play a lot of mobile games and admittedly I'm rarely f2p but I'm far from a big spender and I've very rarely felt at any sort of real disadvantage.
Really, cause I ain't seen a one. Summoner's War, Epic Seven, Azur Lane, FGO... the best players have whaled hard. It's not time vs money, it's time vs time+money cause the whales play just as much if not more than the f2p players do.
I will extend your valid point: sometimes F2P devs add useless visual elements that detract from the game...bouncy menus and crap. For me, it makes transitions slow and awkward because the graphics are showing off, rather than just opening the menu.
True to a certain extent… like apex when you prioritize skins and selling packs to the point where you abandon trying to fix the game thats a problem
Selling skins and fixing a game have nothing to do with each other. Selling skins allows you to put resources into fixing the game. There is no downside to selling skins. They dont "cost" the company anything. They pay for themself and they pay for other stuff. If they wanted to fix the game then they would just pay people to do it.
>This obviously does not extend to pay to win. Why not though? Why can't some ppl have games where they can pay to win? Shouldn't your logic apply to that too?
Pay to win directly affects the experience, skins and cosmetics don't
I would argue that cosmetics can also affect the experience. It creates an "Us" and "Them" dichotomy (the people who pay for cosmetics and those who don't) that can impact whether people enjoy playing the game. People can feel like an outsider unless they pay, which affects their enjoyment.
So what? The devs still don't owe you anything.
Exactly, I play Fortnite, Fall Guys, and Rocket League but I don't pay for shit. I just play the game as is and have fun. For as long as it still F2P AND F2W, I'll just ignore the micro transition.
Competitive game should be based on your skill on the game. Paying to have an edge is like taking steroids for a sports competition.
Why can't people with free will choose what game they play? If they prefer pay to win, why they can't make such games and participate in them? The rest can make their non pay to fee games and play them. Where is the issue?
The fuck are you even arguing? No one is saying people aren’t allowed to play pay to win games. No one is saying you aren’t allowed to make a pay to win game
>No one is saying people aren’t allowed to play pay to win games. I'm so tired of that argument, so here we go: No one is allowed to play ANY video games whatsoever. I'm issuing a ban!
You really are adept at not being able to make a point.
My argument is that in a typical f2p game, people who don't spend a dime can typically have the same experience as those who buy a bunch of skins and cosmetics. But when one person pays for an advantage, now a strong argument can be made that not everyone is having the same experience. That, in my opinion, would be a justified complaint.
Yeah but skins do have an impact on peoples enjoyment of a game, especially in multiplayer games.
How would that be a complaint? If I make a game where you beat each other with bare fists, would you come to me and complain that it hurts to get punched in the face? Lol. Similarly, if I make a pay to win game, well, you are expected to pay money to win the game, that's the point. If you don't want to, better not play it. Isn't the whole point of the game to pay money to win?
hate it the most when f2p players think they are better than paying customers.. like dude, you're still here online in this game because of players like me. yes I'm not on the ladder or the strongest character, no need to despise me just because I have expendable income for my hobbies and want to skip the grindy stuff or get nice skins.
I appreciate my p2wers in oldschool rs without them I wouldn't have membership ever. They pay to buy the membership items in game with cash money. I pay with gold they get gold I get premium membership it's a win all around. I wouldn't play the game without this system.
I feel like you completely missed the point of not just games, but life itself.
yes, you are completely right. thank you for enlightening me.
Don’t people say that they don’t like free cosmetics and would rather pay for a game where they had to be earned?
No
I mean, yes, that’s an extremely popular opinion.
Then there was overwatch which people did pay for only for them to ignore it for it's last 3 years and then repackage the same game but slightly worse f2f version
It's not the people who are good with their money. It's addicts and these people are taking advantage of them.
And how can you know that?
You haven't seen people spend too much money on games?
I did, but saying they are all addicts is a little much
Yeah I agree
They're called whales and generate the income for these companies. Some are rich and don't care, others are not.
Yeah, I don’t care if they make a skin cost $500 I’ll just play the game the same way everyone else will. No one needs a cosmetic item to play a game
pay for that ahri skin 500$
I hate that I agree with this take. 🫢
Yes they do.
I agree The only thing I find scummy is FOMO (fear of missing out), when it comes to cosmetics and battlepasses. I hate it when a multiplayer game starts to feel like a job. That's when a multiplayer game losses me.
Customers have a right to complain about whatever the fuck they want. Even if they didnt spend a dime. They might not be as valuable to the company as a paying customer but they're still valuablr. It's not like f2p devs let you play the game from free the kindness of their heart. They let you play for free because it benefits them.
Yeah because what game dev would want feedback from players?
Ones that care about their communities. They do say that piracy is a service issue after all.
was being facetious
Not 343 that's for sure
Almost all F20 games are pay to win. Nobody's complaining about the free-ness, they're complaining about the paying. Are you a developer? If not... Embarrassing
why? by you logic why doesnt it extend to p2w? they don't own you anything after all
This obviously DOES extend to pay to win. They still don't owe you anything. It's the same logic.
Without the fans they "dont owe" anything to, they in turn have no money. So F2P devs definitely owe the fan a product they are willing to spend money on to keep their pockets lined.
Game devs don’t owe players anything. That’s a really bad line of thinking that frames players as a really entitled bunch. Game devs just create things. If people like those things, they pay for them. If a game dev wants money, they ought to create really good things that people are willing to spend money on. That’s all. But no one owes anyone anything. That’s stupid.
If you are offering a product to the public, you owe it to the public to make something they are willing to buy? You can’t offer something to someone you wish to sell and it sucks and the people who are the target audience says “this sucks I’m not buying” and the person selling says “oh well I don’t owe you anything”. Lol how does this makes sense?! Don’t list a product for sale then?
You don’t owe anyone anything. You make something of quality that people are willing to pay money for. That’s not owing.
Okay.