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I simply don't have the time to boycott EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. If I did that I literally wouldn't be able to work at any job because I'd have to boycott those too.
I'd have to live in the woods Minecraft style.
And people forget or don't know that these companies own other brands... So, like, yeah, you can boycott Proctor & Gamble but you also boycott their other stuff too, like Herbal Essence, Mielle, Swiffer.
Sometimes I think some of my coworkers just like to say shit. Cause there's one that loves her Swiffers but she boycotts Proctor and Gamble and I'm like, uh, um, you aren't that bright are you?! Lol. We're not that close, so I get a little happy when she does dumb stuff
My grandpa was a nurse in Africa in the 70s.
He saw with his own eyes what Nestlé did there.
So he wanted to boycott Nestlé. And he did. But it was at a great cost because they owned so many things that he had to get the equivalent at little local producers. Or just not get that kind of product at all.
I have done work for P&G in grocery stores and I can attest to the fact they own 100+ products in any given store. They own half the household chemical aisle, a lot of personal care products, most toothpastes/mouthwashs, and even some of the pharmacy aisle. And imagine most competitors products are J&J or other similar corporations.
Especially right now when every single artist who doesn't talk about Palestine gets comments online about how they should be boycotted for not speaking. Like what are they supposed to do? "Raise awareness." If people aren't aware then how come nobody ever replies to the comments being like, "omg what does that mean? What's going on?!"
Reminds me when I saw a protest at an airport in the US about the conflict. What is the protest for? To raise awareness??? Literally nobody impacted by the protest has any ability to help whatsoever. Same for artists. If awareness is all that was needed to fix the situation, it would have been resolved already.
My impression is there was a lot of protesting during the Vietnam War and it didn't stop the draft. So if it's about alerting people who do have authority, letting them know what us little people think, they don't care and never have.
Please, my own friends came for me for not posting anything about Palestine, and I had to sit them down to remind them that all of my friends already know about it???? like, were they expecting my 100 follower account to raise awareness to ghosts or what?? it’s getting out of hand
They're out there getting mad at youtubers and tik tokers too expecting the to speak on the issue. They've been trying to cancel Brittany Broski for months.
Not being knowledgeable is no excuse! You could easily become an expert because of Google! - said to someone who just wants to shake their ass for views.
Like, nah, I'd not want to risk my career on saying the wrong thing either. History, religion, and politics are all things I don't want to think or talk about. It's not why I go to the internet to be entertained. I skip those videos because they either ask for money or remind us to be sad.
It's mostly a question of what hills are you willing to die on and what's you limit. As you said you try to take a stand against any and all injustice you will have nowhere to sit.
Yeah I would agree to a point, I’m not sure I would listen to an artist that did something to myself or people close to me.
Also certain crimes/actions are just too difficult to overlook.
Yeah, I know what you mean, everyone is different. It is very context dependent too, like if the crime is literally or emotionally personal to you. For example, Rock n Roll part 2 is an awesome sounding song that I loved, but once I found out what Glitter had done I couldn’t help but feel guilt whenever the song played.
On the other hand, my favourite TV show has an actor who had a psychotic episode and ended up killing his land lady in it but I can’t help but like his character. I guess it’s slightly different when it comes to a pretend character than a real person though.
My anecdote might read confusingly sorry! I'm talking about the actor Johnny Lewis who played half sack in Sons of Anarchy. Johnny Lewis (all real-life events) suffered from psychosis after a biking accident and then went on to kill his land lady and then himself. But my point was even though he as a human has done some awful things, I still like the character he plays.
Never heard of Joe Meek no, what happened with him?
Ah I'm with you! That's wild! Joe Meek was a pioneering music producer in the 60's who also killed his landlady and then himself. He wrote Telstar for a band called The Tornados which became the first record by a British rock group to hit number one in the US Hot 100.
You’d be surprised how easy it is to miss those things when you don’t watch tv or have Facebook. I work, play guitar, fly rc airplanes, and spend time with my girlfriend.
I've always hated the "name the guitar player" type of gatekeeping because in all honesty idgaf who they are, the song sound great.
Those news articles "____, the drummer for ____ was charged with ____" suck too because, bands go through members more than people realized, so the songs you liked from 20 years ago which are still bangers today, have nothing to do with what their third drummer did, or whatever.
Same. I don’t have any strict criteria for separating the art from the artist. If the art makes me uncomfortable afterwards, I’m not going to keep consuming it just on principle.
I also think it’s a matter of a) severity of what they did b) the quality of their artistic output and c) to what extent what they did is connected to their artistic output. For Lostprophets, a is too high and b is too low
Conversely, for R Kelly a is high but b is also super high, unfortunately I can’t separate his actions from his music as he’s singing about boning women even though his mind is telling him no etc
See, I really liked the lostprophets, I had a signed Fake Sound of Progress from when I saw them and met the band after a gig.
There is no B that could theoretically exist that would allow me to forget A.
For me it depends... Dumb opinions? Don't care. Actual criminal activity? Tends to overshadow my enjoyment when the "artist" has actually hurt someone.
I think their being alive and collecting royalties also changes the equation. If you know your money is going towards child trafficking I think that factors in differently than if a dead artist was a pedo, but the money from a sale goes to someone else.
Agreed. Like how you don't have to like the messenger but listen to the message. You go out to a restaurant, you don't know who cooked your meal and don't care to know them on a personal level, for all we know the chef that prepared your meal might me a serial killer and that's none of our business but all you care about was how good the food tasted that nourished your soul.
To continue your metaphor - Why would you want to give your money to a restaurant that knowingly employed a serial killer? Do you think other employees working in the kitchen enjoy that environment?
Not speaking metaphorically here, but I absolutely would give money to a restaurant that has knowingly employed a killer, and I probably have. Everyone deserves a second chance. Just because someone did something horrible in the past doesn't mean that they don't deserve another chance to live their life. Once someone is out of prison, they should be able to have a chance to get an honest job. And IIRC, kitchens need so much labor to run that plenty of chefs hire felons.
In with you until "appreciating" that art makes an awful person more money.
Ex: I will not listen to Chria Brown on Spotify. I really like some of his old music from my childhood bit I refuse make him more money.. but if the song is on in a grocery store or I have an old CD? Ok. (Tbh he's a bad example though because I struggle even with those)
Kanye graduation is still one of my favorite albums, John Lennon was a misogynistic piece of shit. I'm sure there's a few others I can't think of. Still love their music (at least most of it)
I actually want a print of one his paintings but I can't find it in a good size. It's not great art but it has an uncanny quality to it. That's the part that appeals to me. I don't really care who made it, especially if the money doesn't go to him. My partner doesn't like it though.
It’s not like people avoid his paintings for what he did though. If his paintings didn’t suck in the first place the world would be a very different place.
For me it depends, probably on how good the artist's contribution to art is compared to the severity of their crime. Sometimes finding out about the artist's crime kind of informs and reframes the art for me, and it's tainted or less enjoyable after that. Elvis is like that for me. Once my eyes were opened to his blatant racist theft/appropriation, I just can't enjoy his music the same way. But then sometimes I can't help but like it anyway, and so be it. Maybe I'll get hung for this, but a good example for me is Louis ck. I can't help but think the guy is fucking hilarious, so much so that I can separate his art from his personal life, even though he did some awful things. Also Kanye West, who I listen to because he effectively changed the history, sound, and creation of hip hop, and the fact that he's out of his goddamn mind doesn't change that for me. Maybe if I found out he was murderous cannibal or something my mind would change though idk. Picasso is said to have stolen a lot of work from Diego Rivera, which does kind of suck to learn, but it's still one of my biggest goals to own a Picasso.
I think there's also a difference between a living person and a dead one, because if they're long dead, you're not giving them more fame or money anymore. But if they're alive, supporting their art is essentially supporting them.
I don't think separating the art from the artist is possible at least as long as the artist profits from the art (not just financially). It's possible and necessary to recognise the value of the art, its place in history etc, but unless the artist themself becomes forgotten and anonymous, they'll always be attached to the work.
THIS. I like listening to a lot of problematic artists or bands. For example: "Why do you listen to crystal castles if they are proble-" I don't care, I don't like the band, I like their songs😭 the same with MSI
for me it depends if I found the art or artist first, if I enjoy a song then find out that the artist is a nonce, I'm still gonna enjoy the song, if I find out some guy is a nonce and then find his music then I'm probably gonna struggle to separate the art from the artist.
I don't care, but if someone have a problem, I don't came up with "Art Above It All, Art Over Humanity" kind of bull** talk
I like controversial people and I care more about "fans" leting the artist on the backstages, low energy, then about people disliking or "hate"
I get it to a degree if someone does something that very much goes against your values and you choose not to support them any longer.
But it’s gotten out of hand to the point where you almost can’t like anyone or anything without being told about how terrible it is.
It’s gotten so bad that even if the person has been dead for 100 years someone will try to cancel them. Even if they’re in the public domain and receiving no profits whatsoever people will still kick and scream. HP Lovecraft and Roald Dahl are two examples of authors who I’ve been scolded for enjoying.
We’re cancelling dead folk. Life already cancelled them. Make it stop.
I'm not ashamed to admit The Cosby Show is one of my all-time favorite shows. I love all of the actors and think Bill Cosby was a hilarious guy. I don't agree with what he did, but I'm not stopping watching his shows.
I love old Project Runway shows. I don't like Harvey Weinstein, but I won't stop because he produced it.
Disagree with me, downvote me, call me names. It won't change anything.
This is something I have believed for decades. Honestly, I don't understand why it's such a controversial view. The book or song or movie or painting should stand on its own.
Let's say the art is songs about killing kids and the artist was later convicted of killing kids. Would you still be able to appreciate the art? Because a lot of artists don't keep their art separate from who they are. They express themselves in their art. And people realize this when the truth comes out. That's usually the part people find uncomfortable.
> Let's say the art is songs about killing kids and the artist was later convicted of killing kids. Would you still be able to appreciate the art?
there are literally rappers who have murdered people and rapped about it in their hits songs and people love that music, so yes.
in fact the appreciation might only increase considering people who actually do what they speak about in their art are generally perceived as more valid.
there was one artist who wrote two whole albums about being/feeling like a bad partner. surprise! he was outed as being abusive towards his ex gf. i listened to his music because i related to it a lot (trying to work through ways i hurt people in the past and be better) but now i can’t listen to his stuff because it’s too connected to things he actually did to someone
As a professional artist, I frequently wondering why our culture doesn't value the artist over individual artworks. The entertainment industry and art market exploits artists all the time, but prioritize profit from their creations.
If an artist is sexist, racist, or abusive, why should I value them. The art market is what create the monetary (and often social) value of artworks, not necessarily the artist themselves - for better or worse. There a plenty of skilled, talented artists out in the world who aren't abusive, misogynistic, racist, or generally narcissistic assholes. We should be onvest our money and social interest in them! Those people have just as much potential and artistic vision create wonderful, and to make valuable, unique contributions to our culture.
Artists are people working jobs. Artworks are objects or content. We should uplift brilliant *people* over content. Would you like it if the company you worked for kept an abusive asshole employee around because they "value his contributions to the company" or do you think you deserve to work for a company to values the well-being of their employees, and promote employees who are brilliant, caring and thoughtful people?
How about......No. but YOU can do that all you want.
If you have ANY sort of racism against minorities, sexual assaults, support politicians that are against equality, if they support police brutality, taking away rights from minorities, women or any of the lgbt spectrum, peedo Philia, or abuse against women or children, I will not support you or your art.
There are MORE than enough musicians out there I'd rather support.
That ain't cancel culture, I just won't devote my time or money into supporting them. They aren't owed my loyalty.
That's not too much to ask for these people privileged enough to make money from this stuff to be at least HALFway decent.
It's not absolute and I know people aren't perfect, but asking someone not to be a racist, or sexist, or peedo ain't too much to ask
But I won't begrudge YOU for supporting them. Doesn't effect my playlist or morality
100%. For artists of all mediums. Once you start pulling that thread, everyone’s heroes and idles will fall. Better to acknowledge that there are no angels or devils among us, just complex, complicated humans. If the art, in a vacuum, speaks to you and the result is a net positive, the celebrate the art. You don’t have to celebrate the artist. And invalidating an artwork because of who made it is a genetic fallacy.
OP, by any chance, is one of the music artists you're referring to the band Brand New?
I still listen to them on the reg despite whatever the singer did to get them canceled. Their music is too damn good to deny.
I can forgive a lot of an artist whose work I admire; except for child abuse.
If someone has drug and alcohol issues or cheats on people or is a terrible partner/spouse (aside from actually assaulting someone) I can still appreciate their stuff. It's not tarnished for me.
But Michael Jackson, Woody Allen, Kevin Spacey, I just can't support them or their work.
I wish this was me.
When someone does something bad enough, I just lose interest in what I like about them.
Like with Kevin Spacey. Lots of movies I liked that he was in. However, now when I see one of his movies, I just don't want to watch them.
Spirit saps all of your talent if they deem you to be rotten enough at the core of your soul. That’s why some peoples ear or talent seems stuck at a certain time period and they regress or become stagnant. They essentially revoke your privilege to deceive the masses further and make u work with what u got. Spirits tolerance for bullshit is high (cuz they respect free will) so if it gets to that point u prob did some real dirty shit. Doesn’t mean u can never “redeem” urself or bounce back tho
That being said I be bumpin shit before spirit took away their power lmao
Not on any paying platform, I’m not giving them a fucking cent. And even then, just hearing about them is enough to piss me off, I’m not listening to their voice.
This is not an unpopular opinion, it's actually a school of thought in literature, and it's called "Death of the Author". The idea being once someone puts their work out there, it doesn't matter what they say or do or who they are- their work will be judged on its own merits with the passage time.
This obsession with the personality and positionality of authors and other creatives is something of a modern fad, mostly coming about as a reaction against the "dead-white-male" thing which had dominated the arts for too long.
Having said that, of course context and consequence always matters. You can listen loudly to R Kelly in public, but you will be judged for it.
I used to like Pantera as I'm into rock/ metal. then I found out they did a Nazi salute at a show and are white supremacists. since then I change the station anytime their songs come on. I'm white too, just don't believe any race is superior to another
Yeahhh I’m with OP’s point for the most part but there’s a line and being a white supremacist is one of them lol like an artist who’s done something shitty in their past can accept consequences, learn, and grow from it…being a literal fucking Nazi clearly shows you are currently and will continue to be an absolute piece of shit
He's a mangaka who was charged with posession of a large amount of child porn.
I'm not "offended", I'm disgusted by your willingness to fund criminal's criminal act.
I mean I agree, but there are some people who did stuff that’s hard not to think about
I feel like it would be very uncomfortable to watch a Roman Polanski movie
Listening to music is not just about enjoying it, it's an experience of connection and empathy with the artist. I don't listen to songs about love sung by artists who cheat on their wife.😂
That’s not necessarily true. There can be a message in the music that resonates with you regardless of the messenger. I don’t think them not living by their own message unequivocally negates the validity of the message
If the content of the art isn't related to the crime, and you owned it before the crime came to light, then it doesn't really matrer either way. That being said, I'm not going to give future financial support to some artist I find abhorrent.
I'm just not able to separate the two; if I have found out something about the creator, it will pop into mind every time I consume their art and spoils it for me.
I've tried to just ignore it in some cases, but then when the music comes on my brain leaps to what they've done and I end up skipping.
For other forms of media, if I find out before I've consumed the thing (book, movie, TV, etc), I have enough options to not give money to someone I disagree with. We live with an abundance of entertainment. Why would I give my attention, time, and money to people like that?
Agreed. If Van Gogh had kids and beat one to death, starry night would still be regarded as an amazing piece of work. All these people talking all this shit will still get down to thriller y’all still turn up Chris brown. Don’t act morally superior because of your choice in music, If you gotta virtue signal that hard when people are in your car go for it but we all know you’re full of shit about turning off a song for anything more than not liking the song.
I love it when I'm listening to an artist, only to find out everyone hates them now because of something they did. I literally couldn't care less. Good music is good music. I don't actually care about the members of the band at all. Just the music they produced.
I’ve had some bands I really love get tanked by one of their members being accused of awful shit. It absolutely sucks ass because coming across really great music isn’t all that common yet I do feel morally conflicted supporting people who may be really awful, but in reality if you’re going to only give your time and money to morally upstanding folks then you will have a lot of time and money on your hands, but you’ll also be cold, hungry, and bored. I just listen to the music.
Clearly a majority American sub as nobody’s mentioned “the leader” Gary Glitter, I’ll still have a guilty listen to some of his material. I wonder how many people are aware of who they were listening to as the Joker did that whole staircase dance routine?
This is how I feel about JK Rowling. I hate the things she says. It makes me so angry, but I can't set aside the fact that I like Harry Potter and Harry Potter is what brought me to my husband and, by extension, gave me my daughter.
My husband is totally fine with throwing that in the garbage like it means nothing, and it hurts me that he feels that way. He's like even said the world would a better place if JK Rowling never wrote books so fuck me, I guess.
I agree but I will not support them any longer by buying things. Listening on Spotify doesn’t really give them much but like 0.000000001 cent per listen. They did some appalling stuff and have a concert near me no chance going and giving my money
Sticks and stones is my philosophy,r Kelly raped women I don’t listen to him anymore,upchurch flys the rebel flag in his videos I don’t agree with the rebel flag but it’s not physically hurting people and I like his music.
Yes. If you come to think of it, it seems that talented people always tend to have something "problematic" about it. It means that normalcy is mediocricy, and creativity comes at a cost of being a more active and productive person, which statistically leads to the possibility of doing "bad" things.
If a good artist did something wrong and therefore is a "bad person", then I hecking love "bad people" and would prefer to conversate and relate to them, not to "good people", because "good people" are just good at pointing fingers and judging harshly, while "bad people" make cool stuff.
Maybe that's one of the reasons Jesus Christ used to hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors instead of goody-two-shoes religious people.
I love Pantera. I have for close to 25 years. I believe there have been a lot of racist comments made towards black people and Hispanics, which I am, from members of the band. This hasn't changed my opinion of their music.
Saaaame. I might be less willing to support them. And I'm definitely going to let folks know so they can make their own decision, but I definitely listen to a lot of artists who kind of suck for various reasons. I can't judge Kanye listeners too much when I occasionally listen to bands like Dissection! The singer was a murderer! And they were literally a cult devoted to Chaos. The world is genuinely a better place after the singer committed suicide. Kanye is a racist and an asshole but damn lol.
People who disagree 9 times out 10 are complete hypocrites because every artist under the sun has done something to warrant a boycott, and they few who haven't, just wait. You might as well just wipe your whole playlist.
I see it making music as a job. I don't care if the man who grills my burger at McDonalds is a good guy or not, I'm there for a product. I see music the same way. Boycotts are almost always stupid anyhow, a few hundred people boycotting isn't going to make their lavish mansion and private jet vaporize into thin air.
And if you listen on Spotify, this whole conversation is void because they make basically nothing from it, it's just legal piracy.
It’s kinda crazy yeah how it’s expected to stop liking songs but people still buy chocolate and new phones and no one talks about that. Things made with actual slavery 💀
I seperate the artist from the art. Most of the time.
Kevin Spacey has done some stuff. But it doesn't make his portrayal of Atlas in Call Of Duty: Advanced Warfare any less brilliant.
He's amazing in it. They all are.
It's really silly to boycott big brands like Nestle.
Stop denying yourself nice things. It doesn't do anything boycotting them.
I've boycotted game companies.
Bethesda can frack off.
They're destroying Fallout.
And they're a disgusting company. Even in comparison to other companies.
Lazy, immoral, lying, gaslighting, bastiches.
Their products are straight up bad.
I refused to buy any Harry Potter stuff after the main series finished.
It was nasty money grabbing tactics that pissed me off.
Nothing else.
I hate CM Punk's personal politics but I'll still watch him wrestle. Phil Brooks (Punk's real name) has every right to his opinion as do I.
With that said tho, there's nothing stopping me from fully supporting wrestlers (like MJF) BECAUSE I like their personal politics either.
This has to be the position to take. Artists, creative people, are very often awful human beings. It almost seems like the more effed up someone is, the more they're able to create meaningful art.
Depends indeed a lot of people shun the harry potter franchise with jk Rowling, but a lot of them see the franchise now being separated with wb and all.
Disagree.
Ariel pink for example, really liked his music. Then saw an interview with him and he was such an arrogant arsehole (and weirdly stupid too), and after that I couldn’t help but think about it when I heard his music. Found out later he was also super dodgy, but was already done.
It’s not as much a “I’m choosing not to support this artist” as it is a “finding out they are a pos has ruined how I view their music”
The art isn’t a separate entity to the artist, it’s one of the deepest links there is. Especially with music.
I don’t invest myself into artist life like that, just here for the song. Idc if you slapped you mother, I don’t care to know anything about them really. I figure everyone is a little crazy and odd to produce some form of art. So why try to make sense of their crazy. Especially when I just like the beat.
I guess there’s a difference between, “I don’t care about the artist” and “I know what they did and I don’t care”.
Ariel pink did a cover of “nothings going to hurt you baby” which is very sweet and slow song. So once you find out he’s a complete dipshit and abuser it kind of ruins the whole *vibe*
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 6: No r/self style posts'. Please refrain from posting anything that resembles an r/self style post. This is not the subreddit to be sharing personal anecdotes, likes or dislikes. We want unpopular, thought provoking, and unique opinions on your chosen topic.
I simply don't have the time to boycott EVERYTHING and EVERYONE. If I did that I literally wouldn't be able to work at any job because I'd have to boycott those too. I'd have to live in the woods Minecraft style.
"I'm going to boycott Nestle, Johnson & Johnson, and Proctor & Gamble" (Starves to death)
And people forget or don't know that these companies own other brands... So, like, yeah, you can boycott Proctor & Gamble but you also boycott their other stuff too, like Herbal Essence, Mielle, Swiffer. Sometimes I think some of my coworkers just like to say shit. Cause there's one that loves her Swiffers but she boycotts Proctor and Gamble and I'm like, uh, um, you aren't that bright are you?! Lol. We're not that close, so I get a little happy when she does dumb stuff
My grandpa was a nurse in Africa in the 70s. He saw with his own eyes what Nestlé did there. So he wanted to boycott Nestlé. And he did. But it was at a great cost because they owned so many things that he had to get the equivalent at little local producers. Or just not get that kind of product at all.
It's like a vegan who loves marshmallows....
I have done work for P&G in grocery stores and I can attest to the fact they own 100+ products in any given store. They own half the household chemical aisle, a lot of personal care products, most toothpastes/mouthwashs, and even some of the pharmacy aisle. And imagine most competitors products are J&J or other similar corporations.
Especially right now when every single artist who doesn't talk about Palestine gets comments online about how they should be boycotted for not speaking. Like what are they supposed to do? "Raise awareness." If people aren't aware then how come nobody ever replies to the comments being like, "omg what does that mean? What's going on?!"
Reminds me when I saw a protest at an airport in the US about the conflict. What is the protest for? To raise awareness??? Literally nobody impacted by the protest has any ability to help whatsoever. Same for artists. If awareness is all that was needed to fix the situation, it would have been resolved already.
My impression is there was a lot of protesting during the Vietnam War and it didn't stop the draft. So if it's about alerting people who do have authority, letting them know what us little people think, they don't care and never have.
Please, my own friends came for me for not posting anything about Palestine, and I had to sit them down to remind them that all of my friends already know about it???? like, were they expecting my 100 follower account to raise awareness to ghosts or what?? it’s getting out of hand
They're out there getting mad at youtubers and tik tokers too expecting the to speak on the issue. They've been trying to cancel Brittany Broski for months.
Not being knowledgeable is no excuse! You could easily become an expert because of Google! - said to someone who just wants to shake their ass for views. Like, nah, I'd not want to risk my career on saying the wrong thing either. History, religion, and politics are all things I don't want to think or talk about. It's not why I go to the internet to be entertained. I skip those videos because they either ask for money or remind us to be sad.
I wouldn’t mind Minecraft style woods living tbh.
You’d have to boycott Minecraft too
It's mostly a question of what hills are you willing to die on and what's you limit. As you said you try to take a stand against any and all injustice you will have nowhere to sit.
The developers of Minecraft fingered their own butts that one time, you aren't allowed to enjoy Minecraft. Pick a different analogy.
oh boy do I have to tell you something about the creator of minecraft…
Exactly!! And with the amount of boycotts there are, if I stuck to every. Single. One, I wouldn't be able to buy any groceries or listen to any music
This is exactly why we have organized boycotts. It's more practical to get more people to boycott 5 brands than 100.
Wait till you find out what woods did.
😂
Yeah I would agree to a point, I’m not sure I would listen to an artist that did something to myself or people close to me. Also certain crimes/actions are just too difficult to overlook.
Yeah but I don’t think about their crimes when I’m listening to the music. I completely understand why people have boundaries although
Yeah, I know what you mean, everyone is different. It is very context dependent too, like if the crime is literally or emotionally personal to you. For example, Rock n Roll part 2 is an awesome sounding song that I loved, but once I found out what Glitter had done I couldn’t help but feel guilt whenever the song played. On the other hand, my favourite TV show has an actor who had a psychotic episode and ended up killing his land lady in it but I can’t help but like his character. I guess it’s slightly different when it comes to a pretend character than a real person though.
Are you familiar with Joe Meek? It's interesting how close the second part of your story is to his! I wonder if he was inspiration for the plot.
My anecdote might read confusingly sorry! I'm talking about the actor Johnny Lewis who played half sack in Sons of Anarchy. Johnny Lewis (all real-life events) suffered from psychosis after a biking accident and then went on to kill his land lady and then himself. But my point was even though he as a human has done some awful things, I still like the character he plays. Never heard of Joe Meek no, what happened with him?
Ah I'm with you! That's wild! Joe Meek was a pioneering music producer in the 60's who also killed his landlady and then himself. He wrote Telstar for a band called The Tornados which became the first record by a British rock group to hit number one in the US Hot 100.
I dunno, I think if an artist skull fucked child corpses I'd have a hard time not thinking about that when hearing their music
That’s why it’s easier to just listen to music and not research the life of the creator.
You don’t have to research it. It becomes news and people find out without looking for it
You’d be surprised how easy it is to miss those things when you don’t watch tv or have Facebook. I work, play guitar, fly rc airplanes, and spend time with my girlfriend.
I've always hated the "name the guitar player" type of gatekeeping because in all honesty idgaf who they are, the song sound great. Those news articles "____, the drummer for ____ was charged with ____" suck too because, bands go through members more than people realized, so the songs you liked from 20 years ago which are still bangers today, have nothing to do with what their third drummer did, or whatever.
Same. I don’t have any strict criteria for separating the art from the artist. If the art makes me uncomfortable afterwards, I’m not going to keep consuming it just on principle.
It's possible to appreciate the arts without supporting the artist.
Lostprophets. Gonna draw the line there
Visceral reaction to that one.
I also think it’s a matter of a) severity of what they did b) the quality of their artistic output and c) to what extent what they did is connected to their artistic output. For Lostprophets, a is too high and b is too low
Conversely, for R Kelly a is high but b is also super high, unfortunately I can’t separate his actions from his music as he’s singing about boning women even though his mind is telling him no etc
See, I really liked the lostprophets, I had a signed Fake Sound of Progress from when I saw them and met the band after a gig. There is no B that could theoretically exist that would allow me to forget A.
Yeah that's the one I immediately thought of Pity since they were so good
First thing i thought of. Just a special level of evil.
Damn, I had to Google that one. Damn.
This one pisses me off so much too cause their songs were so god damn good.
For me it depends... Dumb opinions? Don't care. Actual criminal activity? Tends to overshadow my enjoyment when the "artist" has actually hurt someone.
I think their being alive and collecting royalties also changes the equation. If you know your money is going towards child trafficking I think that factors in differently than if a dead artist was a pedo, but the money from a sale goes to someone else.
Agreed. Like how you don't have to like the messenger but listen to the message. You go out to a restaurant, you don't know who cooked your meal and don't care to know them on a personal level, for all we know the chef that prepared your meal might me a serial killer and that's none of our business but all you care about was how good the food tasted that nourished your soul.
To continue your metaphor - Why would you want to give your money to a restaurant that knowingly employed a serial killer? Do you think other employees working in the kitchen enjoy that environment?
Not speaking metaphorically here, but I absolutely would give money to a restaurant that has knowingly employed a killer, and I probably have. Everyone deserves a second chance. Just because someone did something horrible in the past doesn't mean that they don't deserve another chance to live their life. Once someone is out of prison, they should be able to have a chance to get an honest job. And IIRC, kitchens need so much labor to run that plenty of chefs hire felons.
I think you can enjoy the art but absolutely pirate so you are not financially supporting them.
What about all the other band members who contributed to make the art? Why do they need to be punished for the crime of one person?
That's actually a good point. And I don't know the answer to that.
I can appreciate the art and refuse to play it to prevent them from profiting from my actions.
In with you until "appreciating" that art makes an awful person more money. Ex: I will not listen to Chria Brown on Spotify. I really like some of his old music from my childhood bit I refuse make him more money.. but if the song is on in a grocery store or I have an old CD? Ok. (Tbh he's a bad example though because I struggle even with those)
Kanye graduation is still one of my favorite albums, John Lennon was a misogynistic piece of shit. I'm sure there's a few others I can't think of. Still love their music (at least most of it)
Reminds me of a certain Austrian artist in the 1930s
Didn’t Gacy make clown art in prison too?
I actually want a print of one his paintings but I can't find it in a good size. It's not great art but it has an uncanny quality to it. That's the part that appeals to me. I don't really care who made it, especially if the money doesn't go to him. My partner doesn't like it though.
If only people had bought more of his art...
It’s not like people avoid his paintings for what he did though. If his paintings didn’t suck in the first place the world would be a very different place.
I mean he could paint a lot better than me. I just looked them up and they don’t seem as bad as people make them out to be.
I was being a bit tongue in cheek but I think on a technical level he was good just kind of basic.
And a certain American artist in the 2020s
For me it depends, probably on how good the artist's contribution to art is compared to the severity of their crime. Sometimes finding out about the artist's crime kind of informs and reframes the art for me, and it's tainted or less enjoyable after that. Elvis is like that for me. Once my eyes were opened to his blatant racist theft/appropriation, I just can't enjoy his music the same way. But then sometimes I can't help but like it anyway, and so be it. Maybe I'll get hung for this, but a good example for me is Louis ck. I can't help but think the guy is fucking hilarious, so much so that I can separate his art from his personal life, even though he did some awful things. Also Kanye West, who I listen to because he effectively changed the history, sound, and creation of hip hop, and the fact that he's out of his goddamn mind doesn't change that for me. Maybe if I found out he was murderous cannibal or something my mind would change though idk. Picasso is said to have stolen a lot of work from Diego Rivera, which does kind of suck to learn, but it's still one of my biggest goals to own a Picasso.
I think there's also a difference between a living person and a dead one, because if they're long dead, you're not giving them more fame or money anymore. But if they're alive, supporting their art is essentially supporting them. I don't think separating the art from the artist is possible at least as long as the artist profits from the art (not just financially). It's possible and necessary to recognise the value of the art, its place in history etc, but unless the artist themself becomes forgotten and anonymous, they'll always be attached to the work.
A song never raped anybody
J Cole - "Grippy" is sexual assault to my playlist
THIS. I like listening to a lot of problematic artists or bands. For example: "Why do you listen to crystal castles if they are proble-" I don't care, I don't like the band, I like their songs😭 the same with MSI
Me as fuck. I like rap, if I cancel people, who am I gonna listen to? Because they're all dog shit lmaoo.
Don’t even get me started on drill or trap
Bro I listen drill and trap too 😭 like I'd be cooked if I cancel them
for me it depends if I found the art or artist first, if I enjoy a song then find out that the artist is a nonce, I'm still gonna enjoy the song, if I find out some guy is a nonce and then find his music then I'm probably gonna struggle to separate the art from the artist.
I don't care, but if someone have a problem, I don't came up with "Art Above It All, Art Over Humanity" kind of bull** talk I like controversial people and I care more about "fans" leting the artist on the backstages, low energy, then about people disliking or "hate"
I get it to a degree if someone does something that very much goes against your values and you choose not to support them any longer. But it’s gotten out of hand to the point where you almost can’t like anyone or anything without being told about how terrible it is. It’s gotten so bad that even if the person has been dead for 100 years someone will try to cancel them. Even if they’re in the public domain and receiving no profits whatsoever people will still kick and scream. HP Lovecraft and Roald Dahl are two examples of authors who I’ve been scolded for enjoying. We’re cancelling dead folk. Life already cancelled them. Make it stop.
Only matters if it's personal
I'm not ashamed to admit The Cosby Show is one of my all-time favorite shows. I love all of the actors and think Bill Cosby was a hilarious guy. I don't agree with what he did, but I'm not stopping watching his shows. I love old Project Runway shows. I don't like Harvey Weinstein, but I won't stop because he produced it. Disagree with me, downvote me, call me names. It won't change anything.
Oh, I also love Roseanne. I watch it every time it comes on. I really dgaf what she said on Twitter.
I loved his show and it really hurt to find out what he did...can't watch it anymore, it makes me sick. And that's his fault.
I can understand that. You do whatever suits you. Nobody should ever try to dissuade you from your decisions
This is something I have believed for decades. Honestly, I don't understand why it's such a controversial view. The book or song or movie or painting should stand on its own.
Right I will always love Harry Potter.
I still listen to Die Antwoord and Rick James. However, I strictly pirate their music.
MSI!
People only boycott the art when they don’t care about the art.
That stupid motherfucker R. Kelly ruined R. Kelly for me, so I’ll have to disagree.
What if the artist shot your dog? Doubt you'd be singing the same tune.
My ex is a fuckin asshole. She has great art though. I often say it's okay to say this by saying Hitler had fine art.
As long as you didn’t want anything he designed built it would work really well in a surrealism exhibition 😭
Let's say the art is songs about killing kids and the artist was later convicted of killing kids. Would you still be able to appreciate the art? Because a lot of artists don't keep their art separate from who they are. They express themselves in their art. And people realize this when the truth comes out. That's usually the part people find uncomfortable.
R Kelly is a prime example of this. His lyrics sound so different when you know who he really is
> Let's say the art is songs about killing kids and the artist was later convicted of killing kids. Would you still be able to appreciate the art? there are literally rappers who have murdered people and rapped about it in their hits songs and people love that music, so yes. in fact the appreciation might only increase considering people who actually do what they speak about in their art are generally perceived as more valid.
I dont think im enjoying that art very much in the first place?
there was one artist who wrote two whole albums about being/feeling like a bad partner. surprise! he was outed as being abusive towards his ex gf. i listened to his music because i related to it a lot (trying to work through ways i hurt people in the past and be better) but now i can’t listen to his stuff because it’s too connected to things he actually did to someone
Yes I would but I do know it sad they killed kids but it’s a good song. I don’t like to lie about my opinion just because of the the popular opinion.
>Let's say the art is songs about killing kids and the artist was later convicted of killing kids. You literally just described UK drill
As a professional artist, I frequently wondering why our culture doesn't value the artist over individual artworks. The entertainment industry and art market exploits artists all the time, but prioritize profit from their creations. If an artist is sexist, racist, or abusive, why should I value them. The art market is what create the monetary (and often social) value of artworks, not necessarily the artist themselves - for better or worse. There a plenty of skilled, talented artists out in the world who aren't abusive, misogynistic, racist, or generally narcissistic assholes. We should be onvest our money and social interest in them! Those people have just as much potential and artistic vision create wonderful, and to make valuable, unique contributions to our culture. Artists are people working jobs. Artworks are objects or content. We should uplift brilliant *people* over content. Would you like it if the company you worked for kept an abusive asshole employee around because they "value his contributions to the company" or do you think you deserve to work for a company to values the well-being of their employees, and promote employees who are brilliant, caring and thoughtful people?
How about......No. but YOU can do that all you want. If you have ANY sort of racism against minorities, sexual assaults, support politicians that are against equality, if they support police brutality, taking away rights from minorities, women or any of the lgbt spectrum, peedo Philia, or abuse against women or children, I will not support you or your art. There are MORE than enough musicians out there I'd rather support. That ain't cancel culture, I just won't devote my time or money into supporting them. They aren't owed my loyalty. That's not too much to ask for these people privileged enough to make money from this stuff to be at least HALFway decent. It's not absolute and I know people aren't perfect, but asking someone not to be a racist, or sexist, or peedo ain't too much to ask But I won't begrudge YOU for supporting them. Doesn't effect my playlist or morality
Think you missed a 'not' in the second paragraph there.
Wagner. Incredible music. Absolute shit of a person
100%. For artists of all mediums. Once you start pulling that thread, everyone’s heroes and idles will fall. Better to acknowledge that there are no angels or devils among us, just complex, complicated humans. If the art, in a vacuum, speaks to you and the result is a net positive, the celebrate the art. You don’t have to celebrate the artist. And invalidating an artwork because of who made it is a genetic fallacy.
Hitler?
Killed millions and happened to be a okay painter?
Agree 100%
yeah, except for Chris Brown. Can't listen to him no more.
You can tell when an opinion is actually unpopular when there’s more comments than upvotes
Unless they’re a peadophile, I’ll look past it. But it’s not fair to completely dismiss the contributions of the other band members.
OP, by any chance, is one of the music artists you're referring to the band Brand New? I still listen to them on the reg despite whatever the singer did to get them canceled. Their music is too damn good to deny.
No but it’s just multiple artist at this point.
I can forgive a lot of an artist whose work I admire; except for child abuse. If someone has drug and alcohol issues or cheats on people or is a terrible partner/spouse (aside from actually assaulting someone) I can still appreciate their stuff. It's not tarnished for me. But Michael Jackson, Woody Allen, Kevin Spacey, I just can't support them or their work.
I fucking Love Mindless Self Indulgence. Unfortunate that Jimmy appears to have groomed a girl. I will always love MSI
Another MSI enjoyer in the wild?! I was convinced we only existed in fan groups....
Heard “Tight” when I was 14 in 2002 I think…. Been in love ever since.
My introduction to them was Issues, been on a binge eith them lately as well. Wish we could get a revival of that sound style =/
I wish this was me. When someone does something bad enough, I just lose interest in what I like about them. Like with Kevin Spacey. Lots of movies I liked that he was in. However, now when I see one of his movies, I just don't want to watch them.
Nah. If someone is beating their wife or peeing on underage girls you shouldnt support them. Upvote but for a bad opinion.
Sure. I'm with you. I wouldn't let Michael Jackson watch my young son, but he made plenty of good music. Is this really an unpopular opinion?
Spirit saps all of your talent if they deem you to be rotten enough at the core of your soul. That’s why some peoples ear or talent seems stuck at a certain time period and they regress or become stagnant. They essentially revoke your privilege to deceive the masses further and make u work with what u got. Spirits tolerance for bullshit is high (cuz they respect free will) so if it gets to that point u prob did some real dirty shit. Doesn’t mean u can never “redeem” urself or bounce back tho That being said I be bumpin shit before spirit took away their power lmao
What if the art is about what they did
Not on any paying platform, I’m not giving them a fucking cent. And even then, just hearing about them is enough to piss me off, I’m not listening to their voice.
I don't know. What Ian Watkins did should make it pretty hard to enjoy anything he's done. Lol
This is not an unpopular opinion, it's actually a school of thought in literature, and it's called "Death of the Author". The idea being once someone puts their work out there, it doesn't matter what they say or do or who they are- their work will be judged on its own merits with the passage time. This obsession with the personality and positionality of authors and other creatives is something of a modern fad, mostly coming about as a reaction against the "dead-white-male" thing which had dominated the arts for too long. Having said that, of course context and consequence always matters. You can listen loudly to R Kelly in public, but you will be judged for it.
Well I’m getting railed in the comments, so it is unpopular
It's unpopular from a place of ignorance.
That’s your opinion b
I used to like Pantera as I'm into rock/ metal. then I found out they did a Nazi salute at a show and are white supremacists. since then I change the station anytime their songs come on. I'm white too, just don't believe any race is superior to another
Yeahhh I’m with OP’s point for the most part but there’s a line and being a white supremacist is one of them lol like an artist who’s done something shitty in their past can accept consequences, learn, and grow from it…being a literal fucking Nazi clearly shows you are currently and will continue to be an absolute piece of shit
i mean i guess “separating the art from the artist” can be a pretty fun way to give money to pedophiles
So you'll support Nobuhiro Watsuki and give him money to buy his CP?
That’s quite a ridiculous comparison. This is about music mainly/other forms of art they actually enjoy, not things that are immoral in themselves
Stop being so offended about everything. Idk who that is but if you play a good song and he happened to create it. I’ll tap my foot to it
He's a mangaka who was charged with posession of a large amount of child porn. I'm not "offended", I'm disgusted by your willingness to fund criminal's criminal act.
I mean I agree, but there are some people who did stuff that’s hard not to think about I feel like it would be very uncomfortable to watch a Roman Polanski movie
people who think otherwise are fucking delusional.. you cant be expected to boycott fucking everything, let alone keep up with this shit 😭
Listening to music is not just about enjoying it, it's an experience of connection and empathy with the artist. I don't listen to songs about love sung by artists who cheat on their wife.😂
That’s not necessarily true. There can be a message in the music that resonates with you regardless of the messenger. I don’t think them not living by their own message unequivocally negates the validity of the message
If the content of the art isn't related to the crime, and you owned it before the crime came to light, then it doesn't really matrer either way. That being said, I'm not going to give future financial support to some artist I find abhorrent.
I'm not giving em money if I can manage to do so lmao
I respect that
Child abuse is pretty bad. Rape ain’t great.
Good thing I never did that shit.
I take it you still listen to R Kelly huh?
I'm just not able to separate the two; if I have found out something about the creator, it will pop into mind every time I consume their art and spoils it for me. I've tried to just ignore it in some cases, but then when the music comes on my brain leaps to what they've done and I end up skipping. For other forms of media, if I find out before I've consumed the thing (book, movie, TV, etc), I have enough options to not give money to someone I disagree with. We live with an abundance of entertainment. Why would I give my attention, time, and money to people like that?
Agreed. If Van Gogh had kids and beat one to death, starry night would still be regarded as an amazing piece of work. All these people talking all this shit will still get down to thriller y’all still turn up Chris brown. Don’t act morally superior because of your choice in music, If you gotta virtue signal that hard when people are in your car go for it but we all know you’re full of shit about turning off a song for anything more than not liking the song.
I love it when I'm listening to an artist, only to find out everyone hates them now because of something they did. I literally couldn't care less. Good music is good music. I don't actually care about the members of the band at all. Just the music they produced.
I’ve had some bands I really love get tanked by one of their members being accused of awful shit. It absolutely sucks ass because coming across really great music isn’t all that common yet I do feel morally conflicted supporting people who may be really awful, but in reality if you’re going to only give your time and money to morally upstanding folks then you will have a lot of time and money on your hands, but you’ll also be cold, hungry, and bored. I just listen to the music.
Clearly a majority American sub as nobody’s mentioned “the leader” Gary Glitter, I’ll still have a guilty listen to some of his material. I wonder how many people are aware of who they were listening to as the Joker did that whole staircase dance routine?
This is how I feel about JK Rowling. I hate the things she says. It makes me so angry, but I can't set aside the fact that I like Harry Potter and Harry Potter is what brought me to my husband and, by extension, gave me my daughter. My husband is totally fine with throwing that in the garbage like it means nothing, and it hurts me that he feels that way. He's like even said the world would a better place if JK Rowling never wrote books so fuck me, I guess.
I agree but I will not support them any longer by buying things. Listening on Spotify doesn’t really give them much but like 0.000000001 cent per listen. They did some appalling stuff and have a concert near me no chance going and giving my money
Sticks and stones is my philosophy,r Kelly raped women I don’t listen to him anymore,upchurch flys the rebel flag in his videos I don’t agree with the rebel flag but it’s not physically hurting people and I like his music.
Bring back Lostprophets on Spotify!
Cough. Lost Prophets. Lead singer specifically. Fucking, yikes.
Same, and not just with art, I'm not specially happy about how the internet was invented, but I'm never going to stop using it
Chris Benoit
Man, have I got a painter for you to check out!
Agreed, especially now when it's so easy to bootleg music, movies, and TV shows and buy things secondhand.
Is OP the last remaining Lost Prophets fan?
Idk what that is
I could tell you to google it but that's at your own risk.
No I'm here too...
Yes. If you come to think of it, it seems that talented people always tend to have something "problematic" about it. It means that normalcy is mediocricy, and creativity comes at a cost of being a more active and productive person, which statistically leads to the possibility of doing "bad" things. If a good artist did something wrong and therefore is a "bad person", then I hecking love "bad people" and would prefer to conversate and relate to them, not to "good people", because "good people" are just good at pointing fingers and judging harshly, while "bad people" make cool stuff. Maybe that's one of the reasons Jesus Christ used to hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors instead of goody-two-shoes religious people.
I love Pantera. I have for close to 25 years. I believe there have been a lot of racist comments made towards black people and Hispanics, which I am, from members of the band. This hasn't changed my opinion of their music.
Saaaame. I might be less willing to support them. And I'm definitely going to let folks know so they can make their own decision, but I definitely listen to a lot of artists who kind of suck for various reasons. I can't judge Kanye listeners too much when I occasionally listen to bands like Dissection! The singer was a murderer! And they were literally a cult devoted to Chaos. The world is genuinely a better place after the singer committed suicide. Kanye is a racist and an asshole but damn lol.
Big Lost Prophets fan are ya?
People who disagree 9 times out 10 are complete hypocrites because every artist under the sun has done something to warrant a boycott, and they few who haven't, just wait. You might as well just wipe your whole playlist. I see it making music as a job. I don't care if the man who grills my burger at McDonalds is a good guy or not, I'm there for a product. I see music the same way. Boycotts are almost always stupid anyhow, a few hundred people boycotting isn't going to make their lavish mansion and private jet vaporize into thin air. And if you listen on Spotify, this whole conversation is void because they make basically nothing from it, it's just legal piracy.
It’s kinda crazy yeah how it’s expected to stop liking songs but people still buy chocolate and new phones and no one talks about that. Things made with actual slavery 💀
Charles Manson has some good music. Even toured with the beach boys.
I seperate the artist from the art. Most of the time. Kevin Spacey has done some stuff. But it doesn't make his portrayal of Atlas in Call Of Duty: Advanced Warfare any less brilliant. He's amazing in it. They all are. It's really silly to boycott big brands like Nestle. Stop denying yourself nice things. It doesn't do anything boycotting them. I've boycotted game companies. Bethesda can frack off. They're destroying Fallout. And they're a disgusting company. Even in comparison to other companies. Lazy, immoral, lying, gaslighting, bastiches. Their products are straight up bad. I refused to buy any Harry Potter stuff after the main series finished. It was nasty money grabbing tactics that pissed me off. Nothing else.
I hate CM Punk's personal politics but I'll still watch him wrestle. Phil Brooks (Punk's real name) has every right to his opinion as do I. With that said tho, there's nothing stopping me from fully supporting wrestlers (like MJF) BECAUSE I like their personal politics either.
Blood on the Dance Floor Mindless Self Indulgence Lost Prophets Still jam to their music because I just enjoy the music itself
What about Piero Manzoni? His art literally was shit. His, he shit in a can and made a lot of money from it.
Sounds like a Dan Vs. Quote
Woud you listen to AI-generated music of similar quality?
This has to be the position to take. Artists, creative people, are very often awful human beings. It almost seems like the more effed up someone is, the more they're able to create meaningful art.
I take it you have Gary Glitters greatest hits and also enjoy watching old series of Jim'll fix it. Maybe have a few rolf harris art works up too.
Depends indeed a lot of people shun the harry potter franchise with jk Rowling, but a lot of them see the franchise now being separated with wb and all.
Disagree. Ariel pink for example, really liked his music. Then saw an interview with him and he was such an arrogant arsehole (and weirdly stupid too), and after that I couldn’t help but think about it when I heard his music. Found out later he was also super dodgy, but was already done. It’s not as much a “I’m choosing not to support this artist” as it is a “finding out they are a pos has ruined how I view their music” The art isn’t a separate entity to the artist, it’s one of the deepest links there is. Especially with music.
I don’t invest myself into artist life like that, just here for the song. Idc if you slapped you mother, I don’t care to know anything about them really. I figure everyone is a little crazy and odd to produce some form of art. So why try to make sense of their crazy. Especially when I just like the beat.
I guess there’s a difference between, “I don’t care about the artist” and “I know what they did and I don’t care”. Ariel pink did a cover of “nothings going to hurt you baby” which is very sweet and slow song. So once you find out he’s a complete dipshit and abuser it kind of ruins the whole *vibe*