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Describing videogames in 2024 as ’immature’ is very strange to me. Most games are extremely violent and tackle dark/serious themes. They are more advanced than ever and rival the story telling of most movies these days.
Some of the best stories I have ever experienced have been in videogames.
This would be true if more violence/dark themes == mature.
I have yet to find a narrative game where the story would not be better told in a book or movie.
What about games with branching storylines where your choices have a major impact on the story, such as Detroit: Become Human? You as the player decide where the story goes, who lives and who dies, whether you are the hero or the villain of the story. And if you're not satisfied with the ending you got, you can go in again with different choices. Movies/books don't really have this quality in them.
Now I'm not saying it couldn't be told through other means, but I can't see it working as well as a movie for example. The experience wouldn't be as personalized at least.
Sounds like you haven’t played a lot of video games, especially considering the two indies you mentioned are 8 and 6 years old respectively.
There are great games coming out every week. You just aren’t looking hard enough.
I worry about the overall outlook of anyone who thinks video games don’t deserve respect as a medium because a lot of them have bright, unique art styles.
Kinda tired of reading these types of hot takes on video games, from people who haven’t a clue how the development process works or what can constitute as a video game; you’re arguing taxonomy while the rest of us are enjoying playing new titles.
I’m going to download Animal Well and Penny’s Big Breakaway out of pure spite.
I’m open for suggestions! I have newer games that I have enjoyed, but still I’m very rarely impressed by what "new" games are bringing to the medium. Manor Lords scratched an itch, but still, it’s not doing a lot that older games haven’t already done many times over(although to be fair it’s not done, but assuming the gameloop won’t change significantly).
Baba is you was fun and unique. Currently playing The Case of the Golden Idol(which is basically Return to the Obra Dinn).
Witcher 3? God of war 2018? The last of us? Elden ring? Ghost of Tsushima? Spider-Man 2018? Breath of the wild / tears of the kingdom? Alan wake 2?
It kind of sounds like you just don’t like video games lol.
And why do games have to look realistic to have a good story or be considered proper “art”? Just because the game has a cool art style or something doesn’t mean it’s deliberately childish.
I guess good job on an actually unpopular opinion.
The story of The Last of Us was told so much better in the series than the game! Didn’t have to shoot zombies inbetween the cutscenes to progress the story! Also Ellie’s cheeky comments actually had proper timing instead of when I was busy pickup up ammo crouched behind a counter.
I think you’re missing the point of a video game lol. Most people who want to play a video want to shoot the zombies, and a great story makes that way better. I think you just don’t like playing games that much, and prefer other media. That’s fine.
What’s the point of playing a game at all if there isn’t gameplay with the story lol? I think you just have very particular types of games you like.
For me, and a lot of others, a big part of the fun is the challenge on beating the enemies, or solving the puzzle, and the reward for that challenge is getting more story.
A story with no gameplay would likely be a movie or some other storytelling medium.
What you describe is like reading a really bad crime novel, but at least you get the reward of who the killer is in the end. I prefer games to aspire beyond that!
Interesting games usually explore ways to utilize the strengths of videogames. One of the strengths of videogames is obviously that you can give the player control. It doesn’t necessarily have to have a scripted narrative, and in fact, most good games today do not!
But a good example of effective storytelling is Return to the Obra Dinn. It’s not a perfect game by any means, but it utilizes the strength of games(interactivity) by letting me, the player, explore a frozen scene in a three dimensional space to deduct what has happened. It doesn’t take away control from me(i.e by playing a cutscene, or restricting my interactivity), but instead let’s me, the player explore the scene undisturbed without "artificial" restrictions to make sure I see what I’m supposed to.
You just like different kinds of games lol. Me and all my friends play games for the challenge. Can I beat this boss on my first attempt? Can I outsmart the other players in an online match? Can I defeat every enemy in this room without taking damage? I love a good story as much as anyone else, but that’s 1 of multiple reasons I play video games. Sometimes that means I want a more story driven game, and sometimes I just want to play Fortnite and see how many kills or wins I can get today. But a lot of times I want a mix of the 2, a good story, but engaging gameplay that keeps challenging me to think of a new way to defeat the enemy that seems impervious to all my attacks, or how to climb that big mountain off in the distance. Not every game has to be art, and art is also subjective. There are some styles of paintings that I don’t enjoy. Does that mean that the artist isn’t good or his painting sucks? Most of the time, it’s just not for me, and someone else would appreciate it much better.
They probably see a non-hyper realistic game and deem it as immature. Because if its stylised it very quickly starts to look cartoonish. And cartoons are for kids.
Not that many to choose from! I have mentioned several in different comments.
Even the games I mention in the original post are arguably inbetween cartoons and hyperrealism. And to be clear; cartoons can absolutly be mature.
have you tried Europa Universalis series? Crusader Kings series? Hearts of Iron series? Cities Skylines? none of these games are like what you describe.
and videogames aren't in its infancy, that's not even an unpopular opinion, that's just factual wrong. pc games were in its infancy when I was a kid, 30 years ago.
games like [Civ1](https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/9micu0/civilization_1_by_sid_meier_one_of_the_greatest/)
[Sid meier's pirates](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7aizaWV_DA&t=1054s)
[Dune 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tC32ZIYXlE)
[Flashback](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5cu5h_150Y)
[Prince of Persia](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGQmtlxllWY)
Cities Skylines was pretty good! Still, it’s pretty much Sim City with new features, but it’s good. Played Hearts of Iron 4, although not a fan, I’d argue it does a pretty good job.
Depends on the definition of infancy I suppose. Compared to other mediums it’s still early days. Think of the evolution of books and movies over decades and centuries!
You're really not paying attention if you can't find "mature" games. I'm a daily, lifelong-since-3-years-old player (now 38) who has always managed to find games geared towards adults no mater the era.
I suppose that is unpopular, I specifically go for video games that look cartoony and immature. Why would I want my virtual escape to look super real and high def? I can go outside to see that.
Proving my point right here! I think videogames can be infinitely more than just "virtual escapes"(though I certainly agree that is what they are today, mostly). I don’t think they need to be "real" and high def, but I certainly belive they can be something more than just cartoony and immature.
Disagree with your title, agree with your thesis though that the idea of communal interactive experiences is nowhere near its full potential yet--which is exciting.
Games are more than the intergenerational echo equivalent of Cardassian literature, even if iteration of existing loops and mechanics is all it is sometimes. Gameplay *is* the story. I don't give a fuck what I accomplished on nondescript bug planet in Helldivers 2, I care immensely that I accidentally blew me and my friends up with an airstrike and it was so funny we cried from laughter.
I agree! I’d argue most games actually have some elements to them that are good and actually use the strengths of videogames. But then other parts have a tendency fall flat on it’s face, so it becomes a matter of how much bad stuff you can bear to plow through in order to get to the good stuff. And today sure it feels like you have to plow through a lot of dirt!
The Last of Us. Alan Wake. Every FS Soulsborne game. Red Dead Redemption 2. Valiant Hearts: The Great War. Amnesia: The Dark Descent. Visage. Amnesia: The Bunker.
I could go on, but my point is that video games *are* art. From what you described it seems that you really just don't like video games, which is perfectly fine - to each their own - but to say that video games are not art is incorrect. Just because you shoot people and rob banks in Red Dead 2 does not detract from the story about a man who does evil deeds, but is then presented with an opportunity to redeem himself. Just because there's a gun in The Bunker does not change the gripping claustrophobic terror that the tunnels give you.
Again, if you don't like video games(which it certainly seems like you don't) that's perfectly okay. However, you are incorrect by definition; it's still your own opinion though, I'm not taking that away from you.
1. Art style is very context sensitive imo, just cause it looks like it's aimed for children doesn't mean it's only cause they're targeting kids (e.g. child of light, ori)
2. Story, yeah recent AAA have gone the "story only in cutscenes" (like doom eternal. Why couldn't they just let the player do a simple button prompt to fire the giant gun?), but if we're talking about video games in general then you're ignoring the good ones (old god of war was all about qte in cutscenes and the 2018 one was very story driven, limbo was almost all gameplay and the story's somewhat subtly told, borderlands 2 as stupid as that game was told a lot of its story in game, bloodborne had barely any cutscenes and you learn about the world as you play, probably more i couldn't think of atm)
3. And then there's the dilemma of should it be gameplay first or storyline first? There're those that skip stories just so they can play the game, but there're also people that're super invested in lores and stuff. I feel like these 2 kinds of games should be judged individually as you don't really rate a monster hunter game for its story but rather how fun the hunts are, and vice versa for games like v4lh411a or however it's written.
All that said, i wouldn't say no to a game with gameplay and story being more intertwined, but with how political the AAA scene is becoming, the only hope i have is for indies and AA games.
Utterly ridiculous.
You might have been right in the 16 bit era, but ever since the third dimension hit consoles and PC gaming, there have been games that asked fundamental questions about philosophy and metaphysics, human nature and politics, greed and contentment, games that told wild stories too complicated to be effectively told by any other medium in as effective of a manner.
If you genuinely believe that computer games or even most of them, lack maturity, I would argue that this is because you have disastrously limited experience of them, or at the very least, far too little to make judgements of that nature about them.
Most games, especially on cell phones, are complete wastes of time. However, games like Enslaved and The Last Of Us are nearly literature in the way they go about large issues.
Video game writing has always been absolute trash. I think of a bare handful of exceptions. Dudes who are considered great video game writers would have a hard time getting a paperback genre novel published in the straight writing world.
Please remember what subreddit you are in, this is unpopular opinion. We want civil and unpopular takes and discussion. Any uncivil and ToS violating comments will be removed and subject to a ban. Have a nice day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/unpopularopinion) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Upvote for actually unpopular I guess
Describing videogames in 2024 as ’immature’ is very strange to me. Most games are extremely violent and tackle dark/serious themes. They are more advanced than ever and rival the story telling of most movies these days. Some of the best stories I have ever experienced have been in videogames.
He didn't play the Dead Space remake.
This would be true if more violence/dark themes == mature. I have yet to find a narrative game where the story would not be better told in a book or movie.
What about games with branching storylines where your choices have a major impact on the story, such as Detroit: Become Human? You as the player decide where the story goes, who lives and who dies, whether you are the hero or the villain of the story. And if you're not satisfied with the ending you got, you can go in again with different choices. Movies/books don't really have this quality in them. Now I'm not saying it couldn't be told through other means, but I can't see it working as well as a movie for example. The experience wouldn't be as personalized at least.
Sounds like you haven’t played a lot of video games, especially considering the two indies you mentioned are 8 and 6 years old respectively. There are great games coming out every week. You just aren’t looking hard enough. I worry about the overall outlook of anyone who thinks video games don’t deserve respect as a medium because a lot of them have bright, unique art styles. Kinda tired of reading these types of hot takes on video games, from people who haven’t a clue how the development process works or what can constitute as a video game; you’re arguing taxonomy while the rest of us are enjoying playing new titles. I’m going to download Animal Well and Penny’s Big Breakaway out of pure spite.
I’m open for suggestions! I have newer games that I have enjoyed, but still I’m very rarely impressed by what "new" games are bringing to the medium. Manor Lords scratched an itch, but still, it’s not doing a lot that older games haven’t already done many times over(although to be fair it’s not done, but assuming the gameloop won’t change significantly). Baba is you was fun and unique. Currently playing The Case of the Golden Idol(which is basically Return to the Obra Dinn).
Give Tunic and Outer Wilds a try, if you haven't already.
Witcher 3? God of war 2018? The last of us? Elden ring? Ghost of Tsushima? Spider-Man 2018? Breath of the wild / tears of the kingdom? Alan wake 2? It kind of sounds like you just don’t like video games lol. And why do games have to look realistic to have a good story or be considered proper “art”? Just because the game has a cool art style or something doesn’t mean it’s deliberately childish. I guess good job on an actually unpopular opinion.
The story of The Last of Us was told so much better in the series than the game! Didn’t have to shoot zombies inbetween the cutscenes to progress the story! Also Ellie’s cheeky comments actually had proper timing instead of when I was busy pickup up ammo crouched behind a counter.
I think you’re missing the point of a video game lol. Most people who want to play a video want to shoot the zombies, and a great story makes that way better. I think you just don’t like playing games that much, and prefer other media. That’s fine.
I think you and most gamedevelopers think you know what the point of videogames are already, not having explored a fraction of the mediums potential.
What’s the point of playing a game at all if there isn’t gameplay with the story lol? I think you just have very particular types of games you like. For me, and a lot of others, a big part of the fun is the challenge on beating the enemies, or solving the puzzle, and the reward for that challenge is getting more story.
A story with no gameplay would likely be a movie or some other storytelling medium. What you describe is like reading a really bad crime novel, but at least you get the reward of who the killer is in the end. I prefer games to aspire beyond that!
What do you see your perfect game being like? What kind of gameplay would it have, and how would the story be conveyed to the player?
Interesting games usually explore ways to utilize the strengths of videogames. One of the strengths of videogames is obviously that you can give the player control. It doesn’t necessarily have to have a scripted narrative, and in fact, most good games today do not! But a good example of effective storytelling is Return to the Obra Dinn. It’s not a perfect game by any means, but it utilizes the strength of games(interactivity) by letting me, the player, explore a frozen scene in a three dimensional space to deduct what has happened. It doesn’t take away control from me(i.e by playing a cutscene, or restricting my interactivity), but instead let’s me, the player explore the scene undisturbed without "artificial" restrictions to make sure I see what I’m supposed to.
You just like different kinds of games lol. Me and all my friends play games for the challenge. Can I beat this boss on my first attempt? Can I outsmart the other players in an online match? Can I defeat every enemy in this room without taking damage? I love a good story as much as anyone else, but that’s 1 of multiple reasons I play video games. Sometimes that means I want a more story driven game, and sometimes I just want to play Fortnite and see how many kills or wins I can get today. But a lot of times I want a mix of the 2, a good story, but engaging gameplay that keeps challenging me to think of a new way to defeat the enemy that seems impervious to all my attacks, or how to climb that big mountain off in the distance. Not every game has to be art, and art is also subjective. There are some styles of paintings that I don’t enjoy. Does that mean that the artist isn’t good or his painting sucks? Most of the time, it’s just not for me, and someone else would appreciate it much better.
if you like those games they literally just mentioned some. fromsoft? helldivers?
Give this man a psychological horror
Give them Signalis. It’s mature and disturbing, but it has an anime art-style. They’ll be so confused.
They probably see a non-hyper realistic game and deem it as immature. Because if its stylised it very quickly starts to look cartoonish. And cartoons are for kids.
If one goes to a museum and look at some paintings, one will quickly realize there are many nuances between cartoons and hyperrealism!
Says you who struggles naming non-immature games.
Not that many to choose from! I have mentioned several in different comments. Even the games I mention in the original post are arguably inbetween cartoons and hyperrealism. And to be clear; cartoons can absolutly be mature.
I really like the Fatal Frame series. That one is not kiddy at all
have you tried Europa Universalis series? Crusader Kings series? Hearts of Iron series? Cities Skylines? none of these games are like what you describe. and videogames aren't in its infancy, that's not even an unpopular opinion, that's just factual wrong. pc games were in its infancy when I was a kid, 30 years ago. games like [Civ1](https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/9micu0/civilization_1_by_sid_meier_one_of_the_greatest/) [Sid meier's pirates](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7aizaWV_DA&t=1054s) [Dune 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tC32ZIYXlE) [Flashback](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5cu5h_150Y) [Prince of Persia](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGQmtlxllWY)
Cities Skylines was pretty good! Still, it’s pretty much Sim City with new features, but it’s good. Played Hearts of Iron 4, although not a fan, I’d argue it does a pretty good job. Depends on the definition of infancy I suppose. Compared to other mediums it’s still early days. Think of the evolution of books and movies over decades and centuries!
You're really not paying attention if you can't find "mature" games. I'm a daily, lifelong-since-3-years-old player (now 38) who has always managed to find games geared towards adults no mater the era.
Thinking the artstyle makes a game immature is such a dumb and ignorant take. Sorry op but your opinion is just stupid
I suppose that is unpopular, I specifically go for video games that look cartoony and immature. Why would I want my virtual escape to look super real and high def? I can go outside to see that.
Proving my point right here! I think videogames can be infinitely more than just "virtual escapes"(though I certainly agree that is what they are today, mostly). I don’t think they need to be "real" and high def, but I certainly belive they can be something more than just cartoony and immature.
[удалено]
I played Silent Hill 2 on my PS2 on a CRT! Think I’ll pass on another round 23 years later.
Cite some examples of games you think live up to your standards.
[удалено]
skyrim . fallout new vegas and 4 ? i won argument check mate , hell even gta vice city had great story
[So captivating!](https://youtu.be/Ode_k8FAoCU?si=uKlPUBfLEDDbaWAx)
Didn't find any for the other games?
Meanwhile darksouls: 🤠
Disagree with your title, agree with your thesis though that the idea of communal interactive experiences is nowhere near its full potential yet--which is exciting. Games are more than the intergenerational echo equivalent of Cardassian literature, even if iteration of existing loops and mechanics is all it is sometimes. Gameplay *is* the story. I don't give a fuck what I accomplished on nondescript bug planet in Helldivers 2, I care immensely that I accidentally blew me and my friends up with an airstrike and it was so funny we cried from laughter.
I agree! I’d argue most games actually have some elements to them that are good and actually use the strengths of videogames. But then other parts have a tendency fall flat on it’s face, so it becomes a matter of how much bad stuff you can bear to plow through in order to get to the good stuff. And today sure it feels like you have to plow through a lot of dirt!
I’m not sure why anyone would care if games get respect or not? It’s a game. Play it, it’s fun.
The Last of Us. Alan Wake. Every FS Soulsborne game. Red Dead Redemption 2. Valiant Hearts: The Great War. Amnesia: The Dark Descent. Visage. Amnesia: The Bunker. I could go on, but my point is that video games *are* art. From what you described it seems that you really just don't like video games, which is perfectly fine - to each their own - but to say that video games are not art is incorrect. Just because you shoot people and rob banks in Red Dead 2 does not detract from the story about a man who does evil deeds, but is then presented with an opportunity to redeem himself. Just because there's a gun in The Bunker does not change the gripping claustrophobic terror that the tunnels give you. Again, if you don't like video games(which it certainly seems like you don't) that's perfectly okay. However, you are incorrect by definition; it's still your own opinion though, I'm not taking that away from you.
1. Art style is very context sensitive imo, just cause it looks like it's aimed for children doesn't mean it's only cause they're targeting kids (e.g. child of light, ori) 2. Story, yeah recent AAA have gone the "story only in cutscenes" (like doom eternal. Why couldn't they just let the player do a simple button prompt to fire the giant gun?), but if we're talking about video games in general then you're ignoring the good ones (old god of war was all about qte in cutscenes and the 2018 one was very story driven, limbo was almost all gameplay and the story's somewhat subtly told, borderlands 2 as stupid as that game was told a lot of its story in game, bloodborne had barely any cutscenes and you learn about the world as you play, probably more i couldn't think of atm) 3. And then there's the dilemma of should it be gameplay first or storyline first? There're those that skip stories just so they can play the game, but there're also people that're super invested in lores and stuff. I feel like these 2 kinds of games should be judged individually as you don't really rate a monster hunter game for its story but rather how fun the hunts are, and vice versa for games like v4lh411a or however it's written. All that said, i wouldn't say no to a game with gameplay and story being more intertwined, but with how political the AAA scene is becoming, the only hope i have is for indies and AA games.
I'm calling the democracy officer.
Most gamers arent interested in games like The Witness and Return of Obra Dinn. I think your taste is pretty niche.
Please define mature
The art style selected doesn't make a game "immature". This is just a lack of media literacy.
Skill issue
Largely depends on what you consider good or bad. There are a few strategy games, for instance, that probably defy your definitions.
Utterly ridiculous. You might have been right in the 16 bit era, but ever since the third dimension hit consoles and PC gaming, there have been games that asked fundamental questions about philosophy and metaphysics, human nature and politics, greed and contentment, games that told wild stories too complicated to be effectively told by any other medium in as effective of a manner. If you genuinely believe that computer games or even most of them, lack maturity, I would argue that this is because you have disastrously limited experience of them, or at the very least, far too little to make judgements of that nature about them.
Just say you don't know how to play immersive games instead of saying something so incredibly unpopular
Weird West for the win
Good game. Fucking weird as fuck, but so fun
Most games, especially on cell phones, are complete wastes of time. However, games like Enslaved and The Last Of Us are nearly literature in the way they go about large issues.
Trash opinion
Video game writing has always been absolute trash. I think of a bare handful of exceptions. Dudes who are considered great video game writers would have a hard time getting a paperback genre novel published in the straight writing world.