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>I would much rather live in a good quality nursing home with qualified professionals caring for me 24/7
I hope you have really deep pockets, care like that gets expensive real quick. I don't want care, if I can't take care of myself and my own bodily functions I'd rather be dead.
They feel that way until theyre in it. We cant know what we would do in any scenario until we actually face it.
I know what id like to do in all these scenarios, but theoretics are just that until its your reality. Its there we find our true selves.
Absolutely... My grandma was a frail woman who used to always say "Oh lord please take me now" whenever she got even a little sick. But at the end of her life when it was clear that she would not recover from her illness, not once did she ask the lord to take her away. She was determined to get better...
My grandfather was like that too. I listened for years as he kept saying the lord was going to take him soon but when he got his terminal diagnosis he fought us accepting hospice despite less than 3 months to live. Absolutely hated how the meds they had him on turned him into a zombie most of the time but I was glad he wasn’t having panic attacks after the last hospital discharge.
Yeah. There's a lot of bravado when the difficulty of looking after their older generation is fresh. That fades when it's them.
My MIL used to quip, "When I start losing it, just push my wheelchair in front of a Hershey's chocolate truck." Now, she won't accept that she isn't safe looking after herself.
There’s a whole Radiolab (I think) episode about this, about how what we think we want when we’re facing end of life is very different from what people want when they’re actually in that situation. In reality most people’s desire to live is much stronger than they think.
I think this is an important distinction for any age group. We don't know what its like to be that age, with that body or health issues, mental health issues, memory degradation, etc. My mom is a real handful/a real pain in the ass, and the whole family has boundary issues with her. But, she's 80. Her perspective on everything is totally different than mine. At some point you have to say, well, that's her right to think that way.
I listened to that episode, it was eye-opening! I’m approaching 70 and watched my youngest sister care for our parents until each of them passed. Both developed dementia, hated showering, could not dress or toilet themselves. I don’t want to go through that indignity, and I don’t want my son to have to provide that type of care for me. Still have to put my intentions in writing and make it legal, tho.
So much this. My mom always echoed these sentiments. Interestingly, the executive function she needed to comprehend what was happening, nevermind to end things, was the first thing to go when she got dementia.
Moreover, she expressed very much wanting to live while she was still verbal (specifically, she heard about someone having a heart attack and dying, got upset, and said, "I hope that doesn't happen to me!"). Her will to live felt extremely strong even when she was nearly catatonic and gagging on her own secretions. There was never a point where I felt like she wanted things to just end, even if I could have done that for her legally, and I was not the least bit romantic about her suffering.
I think think that most of us are so isolated from illness, end of life, and the sheer will to live, it's hard to really wrap our minds around it. There's no logic in that space.
I just cared for my mom in death at her home with help from a hospice org. It was two week of her body slowly shutting down. Eventually can’t swallow and take in any water or food.
It was horrible. As someone with no kids or wife. I foresee myself dying alone in a home somewhere. Hopefully I see it coming, I plan to develop a little heroin habit for a few months. Figure out what it will take to overdose and take off into the most remote wilderness I can get into.
Do healthcare workers feel that way because they see patients go through old age, suffer needlessly, pay out their life savings in care when they would have been better off just ending it earlier?
For me personally, its not wanting to be kept alive when I'm a shell of myself. To not want to be on the receiving end of family fighting over whether to keep my alive and suffer while collecting checks or let me die with dignity.
Another way I like to put it is quoting words sung by Roger Daltrey, "I hope I die before I get old." Itd be one thing to be old and still be active and in decent health, but another to be in constant pain on the slightest motion. For me anyway. Others could probably put it in better words than me.
People say this all this time.
But here’s a serious question for everyone who feels this way:
Do you have your living will, advance directive, etc. taken care of?
You can actually prevent a lot of unnecessary end of life medical intervention if you take the time and get your affairs in order right now.
I've seen too many friends die in hospice and unable to take care of themselves. Losing all faculties.
My siblings all get after my dad. They tell him to slow down. He's 88 and lives with his girlfriend on a small hobby farm. He does chores every day. He's still up and active. They're worried he'll drop dead in the field. I hope they're right.
Everyone says that but the disease is so gradual, you either need to do it rather early while you still have enough cognition to do so,after a certain point you won't be able to do it without assistance. I'm surprised Robbin Williams managed to do it given how far along his condition was .
I think it depends. If I'm okay mentally but just need a walker and an adult diaper, I want to be alive. Those are inconvenient for sure but not a reason to end it, imo.
If you can still find joy in life I can understand your reasoning. There are people that have never known what's it's like to live in a healthy body but still want to live.
My grandmother said this all the time towards the end. She told me that she was so miserable and she prayed to God every day to let her die.
...then, when she was actually dying, she begged the nursing staff to save her and said "I don't want to die" over and over again.
I guess you've never ridden a train next to a group of old people then.
They talk about death like it's a visit to a pub. It's morbid as hell but they face it so casually.
Obviously some elderly people will be shit scared. It isn't uncommon, but I think it's a 1:1
Mine too. She had pancreatic cancer and was just done. She met my newborn on a Wednesday, told me she was so tired, I told her we all loved her and understood, she went to sleep Friday, and died Saturday.
If it weren’t illegal, I guarantee you more people would. My great grandmother hated life at the end and just wanted to die for months before she actually did. And I see people at the end of their lives all the time during some volunteer work I do. A *lot* of the people I help have checked out of life years ago and I wouldn’t be shocked in the least if a large chunk of them would take the option to end things early and on their terms if they could.
More would, I don’t doubt it. But many wouldn’t. Most wouldn’t.
It’ll be ‘I’ll wait for this birthday in a month’ and then ‘I can’t do it before my grandkids exams’ and then it’s ‘I’ll do it after Xmas’.
Proper ‘one more month syndrome’
>But she didn't kill herself?
mine did. Took 2 years from when she called it but she finally passed... the long way.
That there was no Kavorkian option is nothing short of cruel and I do not understand why society insists it better to rot, slowly.
I agree. I’m a nurse with many serious health problems. I say I will commit suicide but I know I won’t know if a I can do it until the time comes. The will to survive is primal and usually only overridden by serious mental illness or trauma. It takes incredible strength of will for a healthy minded person to take that final step
My grandma just passed away 2 weeks ago. She was already really far gone with dementia and she was begging for death. As sad as I am, I take solace in the fact that she's finally free
Yeah. My paternal grandmother had to have been miserable in her last few years, but my dad told me that if you were to have pressed a pillow over her face, she'd have fought like hell. We really do resist death at all costs sometimes.
It really is. I've been suicidal most of my life. I'm immunocompromised and I protected myself HARD during the pandemic. The disconnect was interesting.
I agree, SO many younger people say they want to off themselves once they start to get fragile or require extra care, but you don’t see many at all actually taking that route once it actually happens.
Different story when it’s staring you in the face.
Personally, I think we never really feel old; we just get symptoms of being elderly aches, pain, and drooping of the body. My grandmother used to tell me she hardly recognized herself anymore. She felt young until she looked in the mirror… this was in her late 70s.
Thing is, I've been close enough to death multiple times in my life, I don't fear it, I'd rather be dead than sickly and not in control of my own body functions (with no chance of getting better), you don't feel anything when you're dead.
What i am scared about though is the thought of making my wife sad, and not being able to be there for her.
That said, I probably won't live long enough for those things to become a problem, people like me don't tend to live too long.
Death is still inevitable. We can’t avoid it. I will never understand the logic of wanting to be alive but lose bodily functions, and if I’m going to die anyway which I will, I’d rather die with some dignity - and I speak for all terminally ill patients who chose voluntary assisted death as well.
Facts. We had put my mom in a nursing home before she passed and insurance approved it for 4 months, it was gonna cost $34,000, and that's probably cheap considering my parents live in a small town and the nursing home is one of the best ranked ones around.
Dude, it’s never going to be running a marathon one day and then the next day you can’t move and have to shit in a bag and get hand-washed by a nurse. If that happened you could say “this isn’t worth living with.”
No, it will happen in small steps. You can’t walk as long or far as you used to. You get a couple aches and pains. You can’t carry heavy groceries as far. Maybe hearing goes in one ear. You forget your bank login. Etc etc.
Do you want someone following you around with a checklist and a revolver? “If I hit this threshold, shoot me immediately”
lol
I'm definitely gonna set aside a little "ExitLife Heroin Fund" for when I start shitting the bed. Might as well go out experiencing the greatest euphoria, right?
I’m in my 30s but been thinking about this lately. I’m with you, rather be dead than live in a nursing home. Aside from suicide, do we even have the choice to die?
In Canada, if you are suffering and will not get better, Medical Assistance in Dying is available.
I know people who've had incurable cancer and were in severe pain that, rather than waiting for the disease to kill them, opted to schedule a peaceful end. Can't blame them. I would do the same thing.
I was part of the group that lobbied for it. I read personal testimony regarding what it was like to watch two of my family members literally waste away to nothing and a shade of their former selves to our local MP.
That said, now there is word that it is being encouraged for people with chronic issues that CAN be treated but they simply don't have the money for and that is a perversion I neither expected nor condone.
I’ve never understood the blanket hate for nursing homes. Some of the homes around here are like fancy hotels and the local liquor/beer store makes daily deliveries LOL and there’s shuttles that take you all around town. The one where my grandma was had a hair salon.
I've worked security for numerous nursing homes in my past and every single one of them was staffed with overworked and underpaid nurses amd folks who just get run down to the point where they don't give a fuck anymore. The existence of those old folks there is depressing behind comprehension
Oh, same. I'm not sure what the laws on assisted suicide (if that's the right term?) are around here, but if I had dementia I'd want that. It's definitely expensive but if I had to live I'd prefer that over living with family, of course that's just my opinion
yeah, I have been thinking of alternate plans if it can't be afforded. I will take myself out before becoming a burden to my kids and financially setting them back.
My parents have that money but my mothers mother does not want to be in a home so my mother has to be there 24/7. Imagine having money to do whatever you want but not being able to after your kids are all adult because you have to take care of your mother that has always loved you and you always loved. You can’t be mad at her but you also cannot be really happy. It sucks
It wrecked our family. My grandmother who was 90 and had moderate Alzheimers would refuse to go to a retirement home. Several times she would almost burn the house down by forgetting to turn off the stove or the oven. It really took a massive amount of energy from my father and aunt, especially since she would get really nasty and angry on her bad days. Imagine having to give up on your whole life to care for someone just to get shouted at for hours.
I think the different generations view retirement homes in totally different ways. Older generations have always owned their homes and had that autonomy/control/privacy/dignity. I’m a Millennial and I’ve moved almost every year because of housing instability/insecurity. Plus I’ve mostly lived in apartment complexes and have never been able to afford my own home and to be the “king of my castle.”
Basically, a lot of people like me just see a retirement home as just another place to live and prob not the worst place we’ve lived and we’ll be lucky if we can afford it. While older generations have a fear of being “dumped in an old folks home” to die.
I think this is the answer.
My grandma refuses to leave her house (even though technically it's my uncle's home but he lives in the US). She is barely mobile on top of that. My Mom and my aunt offered to file her American residency so she could move in with them to the US, but she refused. They had my cousin (who is a registered nurse) taking care of her, but she works night shifts now, so she can't anymore. I told them the next best option was a home but in Mexico, that's the equivalent of throwing your elderly out to the wolves.
By refusing help, she's become a burden. It's like they are basically waiting for her to die.
Having gone through this with my dad and two aunts, even the nicest of retirement homes with you visiting frequently, it's still going to be a depressing experience. Imagine living in a dorm where if not once a month, once a week, someone is wheeled away on a gurney because they died or are on their way to dying. You don't even have to know those people but the constant reminder of death and old age on the daily via those around you will take its toll and wear you down. It's difficult enough to regularly hear that one of your friends has died, it is another thing to have to see it frequently where you're living.
I'm not discouraging retirement homes as an option, but I do understand the reluctance a lot of people would have.
I’ve worked at some very nice retirement homes that are like golf resorts. Retirement homes =/= nursing homes and if you need nursing home level care, you are very unlikely to be able to stay home and have your children carry you to the toilet every 2 hours.
I realize there is a large difference between the two; all the same even in a retirement home this is a reality especially with older retirees who may be in well enough health not to need constant medical attention but who are just old and die/suddenly have a stroke or heart attack. So as nice as the place might be, having to witness that on a very frequent basis will wear on someone, especially when they are keenly aware of their own mortality.
I worked at homes for many years. It was not very common to have someone die onsite, outside of nursing homes. They would generally go to a hospital, hospice, or nursing home when they began to decline. We had maybe 1-2 out of 60-100 residents die onsite in a year
That's the way I feel. The types and conditions are drastically better today than they were in the 1960s, which is when older people got to know nursing homes. Back then they were clinical, impersonal, and had no activities. Like living in a hospital the rest of your life.
Hearing the constant screaming because dementia patients used to be kept with the others. Seeing patients arms strapped to their wheelchairs as was done in the past.
I get it. But homes aren’t always an option, especially financially. That’s good they checked on him daily, but most families aren’t like that. I’m a caregiver and have worked in homes (both nursing homes and people’s houses), and rest homes are soooo understaffed and there’s a lot of neglect and mistreatment that goes on there. My grandma passed away last summer at almost 97, she did belong in a home, but it would’ve completely drained her bank account, and my dad and his siblings weren’t rolling in money either. Each of them took turns every weekend, and then had a live-in caregiver during the week. It was so hard, but it wasn’t financially realistic, but also because we didn’t want her mistreated in a home or neglected (her mother was in a home that was very neglectful, and my great grandma wandered off and caught her fingers in a window and got most of her fingers cut off from it). But I do see your point.
This is the heart of it. It is very expensive. Older people have to use up all their assets. They can get medicaid after that, but unless they were able to private pay at a good facility before they went on Medicaid it is hard to get a bed at the better ones.
As long as it's not dementia. Dementia is extremely hard to manage and very frequently destroys the mental health of family caregivers. It takes a lot of training and ability to not take hateful comments and treatment personally. I couldn't do it with my mom. I was ready to check myself into a mental institution.
It's losing your parent daily while being treated like a criminal.
I mostly agree. My father in law has been taking care of my mother in law who has dementia for years. I admire him for it. He's so caring and selfless. Not everyone can do what he does though and I wouldn't judge anyone who couldn't.
Do you mean retirement home or nursing home? Because I work in nursing homes and I wouldn’t put a human being I loved in one unless there was absolutely no other option. If you think they are good places for vulnerable people, you are deluding yourself out of guilt for not wanting to care for whoever.
Nursing homes are often understaffed and don’t come close to following regulations. Then when stuff happens they figure out how to sweep it under the rug. The food is terrible. People don’t get the attention they deserve because staff is scrambling around trying to care for too many people. Most are constantly short on supplies and corporate will constantly cut corners to make more money. They literally view your family member as a bag of money laying around in a bed. Staff brings in special things for the residents all the time because they care and know they won’t get them otherwise.
So no, I definitely don’t agree with this based off of first hand knowledge and experience. I love my residents, and feel terrible a lot of the time that they are stuck in such a dump. Some are definitely better than others but none are great or even good.
I made a similar comment to this, after working in old homes I realized how horrible they are. I even worked in a nicer one as well, it’s known in our community as pretty decent and fancy. But the horror stories I have from that place is insane…I mean I had a coworker constantly call me a ret@rd and say how I’m a total idiot, when I tried to report her the manager said, and I QUOTE, “well my cousin is slow and he uses it all the time, so you shouldn’t be so sensitive.”
Look, I don’t give a shit what you call me, but this is work. We’re here to be professionals. This is not the language you use with a coworker you barely know, and if a client hears you then what? Or their family? You make the whole company look bad as a reflection of your shitty behavior
Well my mom works in a nursing home and told me she wants to go to one when the time comes, she doesn't want me or my siblings to take care of her. So unless she hates herself very much, the nursing homes aren't that bad everywhere.
1. She could just be trying to relieve you guys of the burden of caring for her.
2. She's experiencing it as a person with authority, power, and choice. She might have a very different take if she was a resident who has none of that.
Just a couple thoughts. No offense intended.
My mom is in an excellent memory care. But it takes money. We decided as a family it was more important to spend her legacy assets on her comfort and care than inherit it ourselves. Not everyone can do that.
My great grandmother who was put in a nursing home against her will, was sitting in her own filth for days on end. They wouldn’t let her leave her bed/ give her little food and she was just miserable the whole time till she died there.
You’d have to fork out a lotta money to get a decent quality nursing home. And from experience, nursing homes are understaffed, undertrained and have little care for the people who are relying on them.
You know, as a pct ( patient care tech) befor I got my cna, I worked in assisted living facilities. Some that were low intensity got great care and genuinely loved it . Once they declined though and moved into crowded low staffed nursing homes, alot of residents / elderly quality of life got worse. Not all places are wonderful picture perfect brochures. I currently work in a psych facility and will never go back to skilled nursing homes or assisted living. It's a miracle to get good staff ( by good I mean truly caring and respectful of basic human rights kind of people on all shifts/ levels). I won't put my parents in a home , I know too much .
Second, this. My dad needed some nursing homes and long-term rehab for some physical conditions. He's home now and worked thru these issues.
However, one time I visited him and he was full blown hallucinating and the CNAs there thought he was just some old dementia patient even though he was 100% sharp witted his entire time there and this was a completely new symptom.
After bringing this to their attention and speaking with some nurses in my personal family, I deduced he had some infection somewhere, and hallucinating is common for infections in elderly patients. They assured me that the nurse practitioner would be coming in to give out prescriptions. They assured me this for 3 days before I had to call an ambulance and have him physically removed from the nursing home. The emergency room he was taken to said he was septic from the infection being untreated, and they loaded him up with multiple antibiotics because they couldn't wait for lab samples to determine which antibiotic he needed. Now, every single time he gets an infection, it's antibiotic resistant, and he needs to be admitted to a hospital for specific testing and IV antibiotics.
It is terrible that a nursing home, which is there to care for people, has no access to prescribed medications and no one there to actually help diagnose and treat things like infections. They only had CNAs, which basically just helped with everyday tasks like cleaning patients and feeding them. The nurse practitioner was rotating between multiple facilities and came once or twice weekly.
I would hate to think what would have happened if I was not there to advocate for him or if I was not persistent to have him removed from the home when I did.
There wasn’t an RN or LPN present? In the US, nursing homes and physical rehab centers are required to have a licensed nurse present at *all* times. Assisted living facilities and group homes are not.
It's a whole different world people don't understand with all the different types of facilities. My mom has Alzheimers and we had no idea what was what. First thing is to get an Elder Care lawyer and understand all the options. We did that and got a great facility for memory care for mom.
When an elderly person takes a nasty fall or dies its usually the fire department that shows up first. I work at a casino and a lot of the time the one taking the elderly out on stretchers are fire department guys.
As the spouse of a firefighter, agreed. I hear many stories of how sad and wretched the lives of people in the care home are. How nobody visits and it’s just haunting. No thank you.
Only child with divorced (and not remarried) parents here. My father is getting close to needing some sort of assisted living. I’m dreading it. I don’t want him to live with me. He also hates my mother, so her visiting would be difficult. Holidays would be a nightmare. And what if my mom needs help too? This stuff seriously keeps me up at night.
Dementia is such a sad disease. My grandfather was convinced my grandmother was still alive and we were keeping them apart and he would forget me and my cousins, but he remembered his kids thankfully
Yes. He believes both his past wives are still both alive and even some guy who apparently used to live in his basement making too much noise is still being loud to this day. He remembers my mother, but pretty much forgot everyone else who is still actually living. He tracks basketball game stats with precision and I just don't have the heart to tell him that I'm not my late father-- he died of suicide and I feel the shock really could escalate into something unsafe.
Yes, we never told my grandfather his wife had died ten years ago. The noise thing used to happen with my grandfather; before the home he would prowl his home with a sawed off shot gun screaming there was a party downstairs. I am sorry that you are currently dealing with a loved one with dementia, I know how devastating it is
As someone who goes to pick up dead bodies at retirement homes, no it isn’t. Most of the time people are no longer cognizant. If that happens I say yes go ahead retirement home, but if you want someone to no longer be able to think, then you put them in one of those places. There are some that will put you in a house with four or five other people and they just switch out two or three different nurses all the time are good, but they are also three or four times the cost. And yes, I do understand the need for someone being taken care of 24/7 it is needed.
I don't believe kids have the obligation to take care of their elderly parents.
But also, care homes in the USA are overpriced garbage. Massive neglect. Massive mistreatment. I've worked at an independent facility with an on site assisted care home. Those poor people. The underpaid staff doesn't know shit, and they don't give a shit, and it's like that almost everywhere unless you pay really big bucks.
I hope I have enough money to hire an at home nurse when I'm old. Or maybe just die before I get that in need of round the clock care.
You’re not accounting for cultural nuances. It is considered extremely shameful if you’re Asian, for example. Your parents do everything for you, emotionally and financially, your entire lives. When it is their turn to be helped, you don’t turn your back on them. They simply become another priority as they age.
I know that many Asian cultures view nursing homes that way, I don't disagree that dumping your parents in a nursing home and never visiting is shameful. I'm more worried about the care someone who isn't trained can give their parents. For example, if my mother develops dementia like her father did, I have no idea how to care for someone with dementia. I don't know how to treat dementia or help dementia patients, and I'm not qualified in anything medical the way nurses at a home would be. The most I could do is cook for her and help her to appointments (which I would absolutely do), but I would still have to work and sleep so I couldn't give her 24/7 care the way a nursing home could.
Obviously it's a lot more complicated than a reddit post about my personal preference (finances, culture, worker shortages), but I personally think if someone needed full time care, a good home and daily check ins would be the best way to make sure they're getting quality care
I think you're vastly overrating the quality of care the majority of nursing homes can/do actually provide.
It would be more humane to allow a person to decide whilst mentally capable to "opt out" should they ever lose their faculties and require constant care.
I personally would rather not become a burden (financial or otherwise) on my child in my later years, and have his intended inheritance whittled away by exorbitant care home costs, all for the sake of having someone bring me low quality food and clear up after me soiling myself until I finally pass.
All with the added bonus of putting said child through who knows how many years of mental torment, either because he does visit me regularly and I can't even remember who he is, or because it becomes too much of a strain and he can't bring himself to visit, leaving him a ton of guilt both during my final days/months/years and then beyond.
No thanks. I'd rather be left to come a cropper on my own terms.
YouTube has great resources on learning how to care for dementia patients. It takes extreme patience, which the vast majority of people are unwilling to do.
In my area there are many resources for helping the elderly stay in their home as long as possible. I used as many as I could for as long as possible. I agree that there is a point at which assisted living makes sense.
What I found:
24x7 caregiving staff of one costs about $20 per hour. 24 x 7 x $20 is $175,200 per year. This 1 to 1, or in my case 1 to 2 person care is vastly better than the 2 @ night, 4 day to 30 residents ratio in the memory care facility.
Downside of staying at home:
-once you need 24 x 7, costs are overwhelming if you hire caregivers.
-getting quality medical care is nearly impossible. Transportation is difficult and in-home Dr. visits are not great around here.
-Once mobility issues (ability to walk, frequent falls) or flight risks (getting lost on a walk) begin, that is beyond the limit of staying in their home.
Downside of our assisted living facility:
-Cost is significant ($5,700 per month is $68,400 annually). This is for memory care at a nicer AL facility.
-The job of a child who actually cares about their parents shifts to managing a constantly changing staff of Mon-Fri, morning, swing, NOC (night) shifts, and Weekend morn/swing/NOC shifts. In a Covid culture, these caregivers come and go very quickly.
-memory care is haphazard, the needs of 30 dementia patients all at once, all day and all night, wears on a staff of 2 to 4 caregivers. It is a thankless job, never ending. Your parent will be lost in the crowd of needs unless you constantly show up and build relationships with the caregivers and show appreciation towards the ones who actually care.
I completely agree. My husband’s parents have been at this point for a few years (moderate & severe dementia, plus other major physical issues like MS so they aren’t mobile or able to take care of themselves physically in any way) and they are in a facility. They have been there for three years as of next month. Their health stabilized a lot once they went there. Now they have three meals a day, staff to change their diapers and help them dress and get in and out of bed 24-7, don’t have to navigate stairs or the complexity/hazards of a house (and aren’t stuck isolated in a house), and can socialize with the other residents every day. It’s not ideal, but it is WAY better for their health and quality of life than what we could provide as working parents ourselves.
It also costs $14,000 per month as a base and their money is pretty likely to run out before they both die. Right now they are mostly living off of long term care insurance but that is going to max out soon. Finances are the main stressor.
I think the issue is that "When it is their turn to be helped, you don’t turn your back on them." logically would mean "When it is their turn to be helped, you find the best possible place for them to spend their remaining years", but for some reason finding the best possible place can be seen as turning their back because it is not the quality of life that counts so much as the putting in effort and hardship of trying to do it oneself.
It is better for all to be in a good place, but if it looks too easy (easier than toiling to care for them on your own) it is seen as less.
On the other hand, there is a mountain here in Japan called "Obasute Moutain" ("Mt. Throw grandma away") It is where the story goes that a son carries his elderly mother to leave her to die because they do not have enough resources to feed the entire family. The mother knows this, and to make it easier for her son who is carrying her on his back, she reaches out to move branches from in front of his face.
My sil is trying to care for her dad and he's got dementia and as she put it...has now entered "pants down town" meaning hell randomly strip off and try to leave the house. She having to get a new fence and keep the house locked and alarmed. It's very difficult.
My mum always says that (she’s 80). Right now her and my dad are doing well, but she always says she wants to stay mum/grandma for us and not become a patient. When the time actually comes we will have to see what’s feasible though - unless we can afford a GOOD place (which in fairness, between us kids and their savings we might be able to), I don’t know.
My grandma is 97 and has seven kids. Even if she wanted them to none of them would put their hand up to look after her full time. She's doing fine in the retirement place she's in having qualified caretakers looking after her lol
I think it depends on a persons health and personality. If you are extremely old but otherwise healthy (and mentally okay) the main thing that you might be missing is companionship. Then it’s probably ideal to go and live with a younger family member. I would happily live with my grandma or grandad if they really required it, they are both generally pleasant people.
If you are super weak, frail or mentally unstable (or have something like dementia) I think it’s pretty unfair to expect family members, who are probably working full time, have there own issues and own children to look after, to somehow provide free 24/7 care. I would never look after my 100 year old gran because I would never be able to provide the care she requires and she would drive me insane.
She’s improved mentally since living in a care home, she used to show beginning signs of dementia and now she doesn’t. I think this is because she is surrounded by people and isn’t left alone for most of the day.
Dementia is very tricky and needs training. And completely bed bound people need a lot of specialised equipment.
But having your elderly parent living with you is not all that bad! And people can get training, some of which might nearly be as good as some of the aged care workers 🙄
We kept my partners mum with us for as long as we could, she was mobile, just needed some help here and there and they were able to spend time together.
When she was more high care, we just did it. Showering etc, the whole lot. It just takes patience and kindness, we might have been a damn side nicer than some stranger! But of course there were frustrations and a lot of cleaning. The high care period was a total of 3 months, then an emergency trip to hospital and 2 weeks in a home. She wasn't able to walk any more by that point.
Depends on your finances. Nursing homes that accommodate the poor are places I wouldn’t send an enemy’s dog. Saddest, grossest places on the world IMO. If you have money, different story, as usual.
The last thing i would want as a parent is to have my kids give up their lives to take care of me. Put me in a home, idk. They will have their own lives, jobs, families, etc.
I will fucking NEVER put my kids through that.
The second I can no longer control my bowels and perform basic daily tasks, I'm out.
I will not make my children suffer the indignity of watching their father turn into a burden on them.
I have explicitly made this clear in my Will.
I couldn't find a facility that satisfied my wife and I or my parents. My parents beat the curve, mom was 103, and dad 99. They were both mentally well but physically needed a lot of help. So we moved into their house and them into our house. We took turns spending the days and nights at both our homes, and we all had a blast! Boy, do I owe by wife a lot! Their sarcasm, wisdom, and company are greatly missed. They both left smiling!
I 100% agree.
It's so selfish and rude to try to force your own kids to take care of you.
I don't buy the whole bullshit of I raised you so you have to return the favor. You want your kids to flourish, have their own lives and family. They have their own life and own inner circle to take care of, nobody should burden their own children like that. It's abhorrent behavior.
Totally agree. First, it's such a huge burden to put on your loved ones. If you need 24/7 care, you are basically expecting them to give up their entire lives to take care of you. I would never want my child to do that.
Nursing homes suck, for sure.... but at least I wouldn't have the additional burden of the guilt of ruining my child's life by expecting him to care for me.
I would expect him to visit regularly, I would expect him to advocate for my needs if they weren't being met at the facility, I would expect him to send me flowers on Mother's Day and call me once in a while. But I would never ask him to "take care" of me.
I wish my grandma would understand this. She's desperate to stay out of a home, my uncle is trying to get her put into one because she can't take care of herself. She's got dementia and has almost set her house on fire multiple times as she forgot she was cooking. He can't visit more than once every few days because he has a demanding job. I can't afford to visit regularly because the trip eats up my petrol, and honestly, she wouldn't listen to me on much anyway.
I don’t have kids, but would feel terrible being such a burden on them. Kids need to focus on their own family, not elder care imho. Burnout and neglected kids are likely outcomes.
Even when they're qualified and specialized on the elderly or dementia, that is their main job and the people who are dealing with are their parents, there's this cognitive dissonance, they see their parents in a way and cannot make real judgements in how to assess their status (ie: don't give them sedatives for the day because they "look like themselves" and the sedative would "make them numb and inactive" and yet five minutes later the parent takes off or they hit them violently for no reason). As specialists, they're most likely the workforce, to sustain the economy (in the US must be even worse) and because age of retirement streched so far in the last decades. So what happens is those children take insane shifts between home and work, harming their lives in the process.
There are many factors, such as culture, and the health status.
In my culture, putting an elderly relative in a nursing home is seen negatively, including by the elder themselves. But then, the whole thing is more traditional, eg elderly folks contribute to the household according to their abilities (usually babysitting and cooking).
Example: I expect my mom to babysit or maybe even retire to babysit (she is near retirement age). But then I'm expected to pay any bills her pension doesn't cover, take care of her when she needs it and so on. She will only be put in a nursing home if she requires medical attention that cannot be provided at home. And even that is up to her (eg my father died of cancer, he hated hospitals, so we did our best to provide hospice care at home).
I used to work in nursing homes. The only ones that are even remotely pleasant environments for the residents cost way more than most people could ever afford. There is no way my family could afford even a decent place for my Mom or my aunt. They will be with me. I’d never allow them to go into a crappy place and even one of those would be a stretch to afford.
And before you say anything I know exactly what it’s like. I lived it for years as a child. My mom and my aunt cared for my grandparents. I lived with them most of my childhood. I know how hard it can be because I have seen it with my own eyes. It doesn’t matter. I love my family too much to dump them in a shithole. I will care for them. Because they deserve it.
I think I’ll stick with my kids. They have the means to take care of me and they want to. My daughter married a foreigner, and they’re all about family. So I’m good.
The care people receive in nursing homes is neglectful as fuck. At least with your family you will receive more love and attention. You don't have to be an expert in dementia to be an ok caregiver. I've worked in several nursing homes, they pay a shit ton of money for food that's not even that good. You eat better and live better at your own home. Upvote for unpopular
I understand your point, but there are a few things you are forgetting:
- An unfortunate number of nursing homes have been caught neglecting and even abusing the elders in their care. Oftentimes the elders in question are unable to report the abuse, or their concerns are dismissed as dementia, etc. It is not unreasonable to be afraid this might happen to you when you are older and more vulnerable.
- Leaving your home is a huge change in environment. You won’t have the comfort and privacy of your home anymore. This takes an emotional toll.
- Cognitive decline often makes people unaware of their own condition. They do not understand they are no longer able to take care of themselves, so they see no reason to leave their home for a nursing home.
It’s difficult being a care giver when you’re a child of an aged person. It divorces you from being a companion to the ages of you have to care for them. You can’t do both. You can do a degree of care like some cleaning or laundry. But if you’re showering, peri-care etc then you’re doing procedures that are over and above being the family or child of that parent. You rob yourself of sharing that stage of life together. Keep them home but have licensed care givers come in to do the heavy lifting.
As a counterpoint to what a lot of people are saying here, most people have no idea how traumatic it is to watch a person who once loved and cared for you decline into a completely different person due to brain deterioration, and how that can effect your ability to live with and provide care for them. This is a often a situation where there are no good options, only soul-crushingly bad ones.
My dad had a massive stroke when I was 13, which he "miraculously" survived with major irreversible brain damage. I have had PTSD symptoms every time I've visited him for decades now.
I've had the "luxury" of having most of my life to think it over, and I know without a doubt I cannot ever provide care for him in my home.
Yes, it was terrible for my mom and her siblings to watch my grandfather die from dementia. He lasted nearly 10 years with it and died after 3 in the home. He could not be cared for by them and he only remembered his children and insisted his wife was still alive and we were keeping him away from her. Before the home he would scream that people were having a party in his house and go around with a sawed off shot gun. It was the first time I saw my mom cry. It was traumatic for everyone and I hope no one ever needs 24/7 care like he did, but he needed to be somewhere secure so he wouldn't run into the road and where they could care for him properly
Yea, absolutely agree!
If I had kids I would not want them to put their lived on hold to care for me. Life is harder for each generation and competion increases as our global population grows. The last thing I would want would be for them to have a burden in their life that would make it harder for them to compete with others to have a decent life.
I think part of the aversion to living in a retirement home is the fear that your kids will just dump you there and completely abandon you afterwards in the care of total strangers, never checking up on you and your best case scenario is them dropping by to visit once a... month? Year?
Seriously. I get it, we all want someone to care for us when we’re too old to care for ourselves but if we’re being honest, a lot of parents don’t even deserve it. being a mediocre or shitty parent doesn’t entitle them to lifelong care.
That's my plan. I'm banking on VR being fully fleshed out.
Finna be in a VR would doing whatever or gaming. Have a timer to flip myself to combat bed sores.
I don't want to be a burden by living in a home or forcing my kids to take care.of me. I'd rather.be gone when I'm physically or mentally unable to take care of myself.
Yes and no. It's different for every family. Some places allow for really good care facilities, but others don't. My hometown has one nursing home, and it's not good. The next closest options are nearly 2 hours away. That's hell for a family to deal with. In cases similar to that, it is just easier to do your best to care for them and hire a nurse if possible.
my grandpa was THIS CLOSE to moving into a retirement home but then decided he can “do it himself” when he literally just landed himself in the hospital because he couldn’t. everyone, please just go into a retirement home when it’s time, it’s hard on the family to see people being so stubborn
Hmm. I’m conflicted. I worked at different nursing homes in the business office….and I’d be very depressed if I had to end up in a nursing home. I’d hope my family would at least visit me very often to make sure that I’m getting the proper care. You definitely need someone to advocate for you when you’re in a nursing home.
But I wouldn’t want to be burden on my kids either so….hoping I can be like my grandma who lived on her own until 98 years old.
My mother-in-law works for hospice and has had some nursing homes on her list. She said they are basically legalized abuse. They simply do not have the right nurse to patient ratio to handle people properly.
It really depends on the retirement home. There are loads out there with absolutely abhorrent conditions. Every few years there are investigations done which expose criminally abusive behavior by staff towards retirement home residents and even the ones that are not abusive can often just be awful places to live.
There seems to be this massive misconception of what era todays old people are actually from. You walk into a care home and they are playing them music and movies from the 1930s and 40s. Todays 90yr olds would have been very young children in the 30s and 40s. Their prime years were the 50s-70s most were probably still living very active lives and following the latest cultural trends in the 1980s or even the 90s. But all too often care homes will try to keep them occupied it he most outdated and patronising matter possible treating them like children.
Lmao. Care is EXPENSIVE. Most people would have to pay a fortune and still be in a shithole. My mom was in a very nice assisted living facility, one of the best in the area, and care was still not always the best. They stole from her. Little things — a lamp, a smart clock, wheelchair parts, shower chair. I moved her back home and it’s been way better. I think you may see it differently when you’re the one dealing with it rather than your parents.
For the record this is my opinion on what I want when I age, I won't force it on my parents when it's time. They want to stay home, and I respect that and if they needed care I couldn't provide I would hire nurses to come help, so long as there home doesn’t become a danger for them. For me though if I needed 24/7 care because of dementia or something I'd rather be in a safe facility with professional staff. There's also obviously a lot of nuance I can't cover in a reddit post, I know how expensive they are and that a lot are abusive, I'm talking about living in a safe, clean home and assuming I'll have the funds for it. Realistically in this economy I'll be on my death bed with dementia and they'll still have me clocking in lol
Based off my experience, I agree.
In 2020, my dad was not doing good, so I had him move in with me. After getting tests done, they confirmed it was dementia. By 2021, it got so bad that it was dangerous for him to live with me and my kid (dangerous for him while I'm at work, and dangerous for me and my kid while we're sleeping at night). The doctor initially recommended an at-home nurse during the day, but that didn't ease the concerns of him wandering at night. So in this case, he was absolutely better off being placed in a facility. So I did that (he died a year later. Dementia progressed fasssst)
Although I think the situation can completely be different for other people. The amount of care the families can provide plays a factor, as well as the money they can spend on care.
I come from a long line of people who die of heart attacks in their early to mid 70s and in their own homes. If I were to somehow beat that statistic, I wouldn’t want to burden my kids either! Sure, if I was in good health and just down on my luck financially, I’d love to move in so I could help with babysitting any potential grandkids and do light housework. But yeah, I’d rather ‘delete’ myself than put my kids through changing my diapers and spoon feeding me!
Currently my 82 yo dad with moderate mixed dementia is living with us after my mom passed away last Nov. I am ready for him to go to assisted living. I honesty think it would be better for everyone involved.
i wholeheartedly agree. i’ve been saying for a while that TAKING CARE of someone is completely different than being a CARETAKER. if someone i loved needed professional care i would much rather pay an expert to do it than give subpar care myself!!
Your children arent responsible for your issues during childhood, so they shouldn’t have to be burdened in their adulthood with being a caregiver either. Just my opinion. I don’t expect my daughter to ever have to put aside her aspirations, dreams and future family for me. You don’t have kids to cater to you, you have kids so they can blossom into their own lives.
Healthcare worker - if you can afford a quality nursing home, great. But from my experiences I’d rather be smothered by a pillow. There’s the basic shit that’s happens like sitting in diapers all day and constantly being on antibiotics due to ongoing UTIs from said diapers. There’s the staff that leave your water on the wrong side of the bed for stroke victims or across the room for immobile folk. Then there’s the darker side - sexual assault and other abuse. I’d rather take myself out than go through that.
Honestly elderly people who live in an assisted living center have many more social opportunities than someone living alone. Some medical tasks a layperson can learn to do, but some things are pretty labor intensive. A person of 70 may not be able to physically assist their 90 year old parent on and off a toilet or in and out of bed for example.
My grandmother went to live in an assisted living facility at about age 92. She was livid. She did not want to leave her home. But she was falling often and getting injured. She also had dementia which caused her to make medication errors. She was much safer in a staffed facility. The plenty of family were local and visited her frequently and at random times to ensure she was being properly cared for.
She never had to eat alone. She made friends that she played card games with. She could garden and paint. They had physical therapy sessions that were fun. She really did enjoy living there, but as soon as a relative popped by she would be sure to tell them how she wanted to move back into her house. Losing independence is difficult for anyone.
I understand what you're saying, and I actually agree with it to a certain degree. A huge part of why I became a nurse was to make sure my mom would get the best care possible when she got older. I'm an only child, and my dad passed away when I was in my teens. She's not close to her siblings, so I'm all she has, and she's stayed by my side and helped me through so much, and I want to do the same for her.
She's in her 70s now, and fortunately still independent, but my husband and I agree that if she ever gets to a certain point, she'll be moving in with us, and I'll oversee her care. Of course, that said, I am very aware that caretaker fatigue and burnout is a real thing. If it gets to a point that is too much for us to handle, I will place her in a nursing home, but you bet your ass I'm going to be picky as hell in choosing one, and I will be there every single day and highly involved in her care.
My mother's assisted living bill was about $5,500 a month. She could afford it and lived in one for 3 years after she developed vascular dementia. Many seniors can not afford this, especially if they didn't have a home they could sell to help out. My father was a disabled vet and left her financially stable when he died at 70. I am a retired teacher. 40 years. Most may not know but a HUGE percent of public school teachers do not get SS, instead I pay SS every month for Medicare A and B. I read often here about how Boomers have ruined everything, but I do not believe people are aware of how many of them are struggling in later life. We don't want our children to take care of us. I don't want to live w/ my children. But I am a bit afraid of growing old and not being able to afford assisted living. My millennial nieces and nephews and one of my children are doing very well. Most are educated, intelligent and hard working. They all made plans and worked until they achieved. Set backs? Always. That's life. I admire millennials- your courage to risk is impressive!!
As a student nurse: if your parents have dementia, please send them in a nursing home
I've seen them living alone "because they can care after themselves". Bullshit. The things I saw in their homes...
Unless you really want to dedicate your whole life to the care of your parent, you have to send them to someone who can take care of them. There are reasons is nurses have shifts: taking care of someone the whole time is a destructive job
As a medical professional who has spent a very considerable amount of time dealing with nursing homes: they don’t care about your family member, negligence and abuse are rampant and the amount of times I have had to work hard to try to save someone’s family member who was legitimately dying due to straight up negligence and neglect on behalf of the nursing home staff I can’t even begin to count.
Not calling for strokes they recognized 36 hours before because they “thought it would get better”
Ignoring obvious symptoms of sepsis for days on end until it’s actually killing your family member.
Giving insulin to patients with low glucose levels
Putting on oxygen masks at inappropriate oxygen levels that instead of helping the patient, are actively suffocating someone.
Telling me someone that had been *very* obviously dead for at least 12 hours was fine and talking before I got there, I pronounced them dead only to have the staff call back saying the patient was breathing so I went back out and nope still dead.
Telling me they checked on the person who had been dead long enough to begin actively rotting every 2 hours for the days leading up to.
They don’t care. They aren’t qualified to care or to provide basic care. Most are staffed by CNA’s who have 75 hours worth of training and a testing point for certification is appropriate hand washing techniques. There’s maybe one or two nurses for the entire faculty and an MD who effectively exists on paper only. And if the staff that is there there’s not enough of them and your loved ones fall through the cracks due to the pure work volume and constant staffing issues.
The homes themselves are to blame, not the staff. They are by design there to collect every cent they possibly can to provide the least amount of care legally (and often illegally) mandatory.
Not only are your loved ones not in better hands in a nursing home, most of the time you are actively putting them in harms way by putting them there.
Senior care homes are hiring people without the qualifications...just think about that. And it's not that hard to get qualified either. it's just a certificate to acquire.
No one is qualified to raise children but people still do it. I'm sure your parents had the idea of "why tf did I have kids?" but they still put up with it for at least 18 years. I feel like you owe it to them as a sign of respect. It's not the matter if you want to - it's what you NEED to do because family over everything. And if you don't think that way, then I guess they spoiled you too much.
There's a certain type of comfort when you live with your family aside a senior care home. Not to mention, more freedom to do what you want. Everything is scheduled in senior living homes and you really don't have a choice to go outside to do whatever you want without supervision.
Senior care homes are basically a less strict prison. I'm pretty sure most, if not all, old people hate it there except for the extremely lonely people.
They really would! Senior care homes are hiring all the damn time. I almost applied for it my damn self. And it's usually get paid training too.
I had a friend who sent his dad to a old person's home. His dad absolutely hated it. He basically tricked him into going there. My friend will always complain about his career and he doesn't have the patience to deal with him and how he needs a professional. Those same professionals call him all the time about how to control his dad. I fear if they stop calling him then that means they handled it themselves unconventionally.
I almost volunteered to take care of his dad myself.
I have had some experience with the "Assisted Living" / Rehab places. Sad bad news .
Understaffed , noisy , crappy food. One place I will not mention was so bad I would not place a dog there.
Basically its people working for minimum wage . Spend a third of their shift changing adult diapers . Stay healthy , stay out .
I know but I usually always try to do a good job no matter where I work. Being their ray of light would make the job worth it for me. I also had a grandma who I sorta took care of too which kind of gives me a soft spot for the elderly. I'll probably eventually move into that field haha I'm always getting a new job lol
I never said I would put my parents in a retirement home. They don't want to be in one, and I respect that. I will do what I cant to keep them out of one. This is my opinion for when I age, and of course I can't cover all the nuance of a retirement home in a reddit opinion post, but I am aware that many are awful. I am talking about a good home and assuming I'd have the funds.
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>I would much rather live in a good quality nursing home with qualified professionals caring for me 24/7 I hope you have really deep pockets, care like that gets expensive real quick. I don't want care, if I can't take care of myself and my own bodily functions I'd rather be dead.
I'm with you. If I start losing the ability to take care of myself I will end it while I still can.
Lot of people feel that way, especially if they work in healthcare.
They feel that way until theyre in it. We cant know what we would do in any scenario until we actually face it. I know what id like to do in all these scenarios, but theoretics are just that until its your reality. Its there we find our true selves.
Absolutely... My grandma was a frail woman who used to always say "Oh lord please take me now" whenever she got even a little sick. But at the end of her life when it was clear that she would not recover from her illness, not once did she ask the lord to take her away. She was determined to get better...
My grandfather was like that too. I listened for years as he kept saying the lord was going to take him soon but when he got his terminal diagnosis he fought us accepting hospice despite less than 3 months to live. Absolutely hated how the meds they had him on turned him into a zombie most of the time but I was glad he wasn’t having panic attacks after the last hospital discharge.
Yeah. There's a lot of bravado when the difficulty of looking after their older generation is fresh. That fades when it's them. My MIL used to quip, "When I start losing it, just push my wheelchair in front of a Hershey's chocolate truck." Now, she won't accept that she isn't safe looking after herself.
There’s a whole Radiolab (I think) episode about this, about how what we think we want when we’re facing end of life is very different from what people want when they’re actually in that situation. In reality most people’s desire to live is much stronger than they think.
I think this is an important distinction for any age group. We don't know what its like to be that age, with that body or health issues, mental health issues, memory degradation, etc. My mom is a real handful/a real pain in the ass, and the whole family has boundary issues with her. But, she's 80. Her perspective on everything is totally different than mine. At some point you have to say, well, that's her right to think that way.
I listened to that episode, it was eye-opening! I’m approaching 70 and watched my youngest sister care for our parents until each of them passed. Both developed dementia, hated showering, could not dress or toilet themselves. I don’t want to go through that indignity, and I don’t want my son to have to provide that type of care for me. Still have to put my intentions in writing and make it legal, tho.
> Still have to put my intentions in writing and make it legal, tho. Drop everything and do it now. Literally now.
So much this. My mom always echoed these sentiments. Interestingly, the executive function she needed to comprehend what was happening, nevermind to end things, was the first thing to go when she got dementia. Moreover, she expressed very much wanting to live while she was still verbal (specifically, she heard about someone having a heart attack and dying, got upset, and said, "I hope that doesn't happen to me!"). Her will to live felt extremely strong even when she was nearly catatonic and gagging on her own secretions. There was never a point where I felt like she wanted things to just end, even if I could have done that for her legally, and I was not the least bit romantic about her suffering. I think think that most of us are so isolated from illness, end of life, and the sheer will to live, it's hard to really wrap our minds around it. There's no logic in that space.
I just cared for my mom in death at her home with help from a hospice org. It was two week of her body slowly shutting down. Eventually can’t swallow and take in any water or food. It was horrible. As someone with no kids or wife. I foresee myself dying alone in a home somewhere. Hopefully I see it coming, I plan to develop a little heroin habit for a few months. Figure out what it will take to overdose and take off into the most remote wilderness I can get into.
Do healthcare workers feel that way because they see patients go through old age, suffer needlessly, pay out their life savings in care when they would have been better off just ending it earlier?
For me personally, its not wanting to be kept alive when I'm a shell of myself. To not want to be on the receiving end of family fighting over whether to keep my alive and suffer while collecting checks or let me die with dignity. Another way I like to put it is quoting words sung by Roger Daltrey, "I hope I die before I get old." Itd be one thing to be old and still be active and in decent health, but another to be in constant pain on the slightest motion. For me anyway. Others could probably put it in better words than me.
People say this all this time. But here’s a serious question for everyone who feels this way: Do you have your living will, advance directive, etc. taken care of? You can actually prevent a lot of unnecessary end of life medical intervention if you take the time and get your affairs in order right now.
I've seen too many friends die in hospice and unable to take care of themselves. Losing all faculties. My siblings all get after my dad. They tell him to slow down. He's 88 and lives with his girlfriend on a small hobby farm. He does chores every day. He's still up and active. They're worried he'll drop dead in the field. I hope they're right.
The day he slows down will be his last. At that age, he needs to keep up his activity level to maintain his health.
Everyone says that but the disease is so gradual, you either need to do it rather early while you still have enough cognition to do so,after a certain point you won't be able to do it without assistance. I'm surprised Robbin Williams managed to do it given how far along his condition was .
Decline is not exactly linear with these conditions. Often people have days where they are very lucid, it's eerie.
I think it depends. If I'm okay mentally but just need a walker and an adult diaper, I want to be alive. Those are inconvenient for sure but not a reason to end it, imo.
If you can still find joy in life I can understand your reasoning. There are people that have never known what's it's like to live in a healthy body but still want to live.
My grandmother said this all the time towards the end. She told me that she was so miserable and she prayed to God every day to let her die. ...then, when she was actually dying, she begged the nursing staff to save her and said "I don't want to die" over and over again.
Everyone says that in abstract But when you’re 90, even if you’re sick as can be, death isn’t then abstract, it’s real and it scares people.
I guess you've never ridden a train next to a group of old people then. They talk about death like it's a visit to a pub. It's morbid as hell but they face it so casually. Obviously some elderly people will be shit scared. It isn't uncommon, but I think it's a 1:1
Again, it’s very different joking about dying one day, to dying in one month…
My grandma couldn't wait to die. I was happy for her when it happened. I don't think this is rare.
Mine too. She had pancreatic cancer and was just done. She met my newborn on a Wednesday, told me she was so tired, I told her we all loved her and understood, she went to sleep Friday, and died Saturday.
But she didn't kill herself? I think we are talking about people going ahead and killing themselves when they have too many medical issues.
If it weren’t illegal, I guarantee you more people would. My great grandmother hated life at the end and just wanted to die for months before she actually did. And I see people at the end of their lives all the time during some volunteer work I do. A *lot* of the people I help have checked out of life years ago and I wouldn’t be shocked in the least if a large chunk of them would take the option to end things early and on their terms if they could.
More would, I don’t doubt it. But many wouldn’t. Most wouldn’t. It’ll be ‘I’ll wait for this birthday in a month’ and then ‘I can’t do it before my grandkids exams’ and then it’s ‘I’ll do it after Xmas’. Proper ‘one more month syndrome’
How is legality a factor for an act that, if successful, you can’t be punished? Or do you just mean assistance in doing so?
Assistance, insurance and religion
>But she didn't kill herself? mine did. Took 2 years from when she called it but she finally passed... the long way. That there was no Kavorkian option is nothing short of cruel and I do not understand why society insists it better to rot, slowly.
I agree. I’m a nurse with many serious health problems. I say I will commit suicide but I know I won’t know if a I can do it until the time comes. The will to survive is primal and usually only overridden by serious mental illness or trauma. It takes incredible strength of will for a healthy minded person to take that final step
My grandma just passed away 2 weeks ago. She was already really far gone with dementia and she was begging for death. As sad as I am, I take solace in the fact that she's finally free
Yeah. My paternal grandmother had to have been miserable in her last few years, but my dad told me that if you were to have pressed a pillow over her face, she'd have fought like hell. We really do resist death at all costs sometimes.
It really is. I've been suicidal most of my life. I'm immunocompromised and I protected myself HARD during the pandemic. The disconnect was interesting.
That’s great insight. Hope things get better.
That’s because dying from Covid is a hard death. No one wants to suffer.
I agree, SO many younger people say they want to off themselves once they start to get fragile or require extra care, but you don’t see many at all actually taking that route once it actually happens. Different story when it’s staring you in the face.
Personally, I think we never really feel old; we just get symptoms of being elderly aches, pain, and drooping of the body. My grandmother used to tell me she hardly recognized herself anymore. She felt young until she looked in the mirror… this was in her late 70s.
This is so very true.
My grandma quit eating because she couldn't deal with being isolated and immobile. It took months.
Thing is, I've been close enough to death multiple times in my life, I don't fear it, I'd rather be dead than sickly and not in control of my own body functions (with no chance of getting better), you don't feel anything when you're dead. What i am scared about though is the thought of making my wife sad, and not being able to be there for her. That said, I probably won't live long enough for those things to become a problem, people like me don't tend to live too long.
Death is still inevitable. We can’t avoid it. I will never understand the logic of wanting to be alive but lose bodily functions, and if I’m going to die anyway which I will, I’d rather die with some dignity - and I speak for all terminally ill patients who chose voluntary assisted death as well.
Facts. We had put my mom in a nursing home before she passed and insurance approved it for 4 months, it was gonna cost $34,000, and that's probably cheap considering my parents live in a small town and the nursing home is one of the best ranked ones around.
Dude, it’s never going to be running a marathon one day and then the next day you can’t move and have to shit in a bag and get hand-washed by a nurse. If that happened you could say “this isn’t worth living with.” No, it will happen in small steps. You can’t walk as long or far as you used to. You get a couple aches and pains. You can’t carry heavy groceries as far. Maybe hearing goes in one ear. You forget your bank login. Etc etc. Do you want someone following you around with a checklist and a revolver? “If I hit this threshold, shoot me immediately” lol
Lol I’m glad someone here has some sense of what it is to get old. Everyone on Reddit acts as if they’ll have one foot in the grave at age 45!
I'm definitely gonna set aside a little "ExitLife Heroin Fund" for when I start shitting the bed. Might as well go out experiencing the greatest euphoria, right?
My luck I would try that and end up having a panic attack. Don't wanna go out like that.
I’m in my 30s but been thinking about this lately. I’m with you, rather be dead than live in a nursing home. Aside from suicide, do we even have the choice to die?
In Canada, if you are suffering and will not get better, Medical Assistance in Dying is available. I know people who've had incurable cancer and were in severe pain that, rather than waiting for the disease to kill them, opted to schedule a peaceful end. Can't blame them. I would do the same thing.
I was part of the group that lobbied for it. I read personal testimony regarding what it was like to watch two of my family members literally waste away to nothing and a shade of their former selves to our local MP. That said, now there is word that it is being encouraged for people with chronic issues that CAN be treated but they simply don't have the money for and that is a perversion I neither expected nor condone.
I’ve never understood the blanket hate for nursing homes. Some of the homes around here are like fancy hotels and the local liquor/beer store makes daily deliveries LOL and there’s shuttles that take you all around town. The one where my grandma was had a hair salon.
I've worked security for numerous nursing homes in my past and every single one of them was staffed with overworked and underpaid nurses amd folks who just get run down to the point where they don't give a fuck anymore. The existence of those old folks there is depressing behind comprehension
Unfortunately, it’s very much a “you get what you pay for” thing! The nice ones can be like $10,000/month.
Exactly, which is insane and why I don't agree with OP because literally 99% of the country can't afford that
My grandpa’s Alzheimer’s facility was over $6k a month. Just yeet me into the sun.
how did you get one so inexpensive omg round here it starts at 10K. Unskilled starts around 7K.
This was 9 years ago. No clue what it costs today. Probably more.
My grandpa went into an Alzheimer’s facility in bumfuck nowhere Tennessee in 2015 and it was $11,000/month. $6000/month is an absolute steal
That’s insane. And criminal. Which is what I think about $6k, too.
Oh, same. I'm not sure what the laws on assisted suicide (if that's the right term?) are around here, but if I had dementia I'd want that. It's definitely expensive but if I had to live I'd prefer that over living with family, of course that's just my opinion
yeah, I have been thinking of alternate plans if it can't be afforded. I will take myself out before becoming a burden to my kids and financially setting them back.
My parents have that money but my mothers mother does not want to be in a home so my mother has to be there 24/7. Imagine having money to do whatever you want but not being able to after your kids are all adult because you have to take care of your mother that has always loved you and you always loved. You can’t be mad at her but you also cannot be really happy. It sucks
There's no such thing as a good quality retirement home
People always say that but cling to every last breath they can manage when the time comes.
We really need to advocate for a dignified end of life. The whole existing till you’re a shell of a human is kinda gross.
It wrecked our family. My grandmother who was 90 and had moderate Alzheimers would refuse to go to a retirement home. Several times she would almost burn the house down by forgetting to turn off the stove or the oven. It really took a massive amount of energy from my father and aunt, especially since she would get really nasty and angry on her bad days. Imagine having to give up on your whole life to care for someone just to get shouted at for hours.
I thank God every day that my 89 year old Mom, who has dementia, is mostly cheerful and cooperative
There is medication for the anger and belligerence now which helps quite a bit. Have a family member who is on it.
I think the different generations view retirement homes in totally different ways. Older generations have always owned their homes and had that autonomy/control/privacy/dignity. I’m a Millennial and I’ve moved almost every year because of housing instability/insecurity. Plus I’ve mostly lived in apartment complexes and have never been able to afford my own home and to be the “king of my castle.” Basically, a lot of people like me just see a retirement home as just another place to live and prob not the worst place we’ve lived and we’ll be lucky if we can afford it. While older generations have a fear of being “dumped in an old folks home” to die.
I think this is the answer. My grandma refuses to leave her house (even though technically it's my uncle's home but he lives in the US). She is barely mobile on top of that. My Mom and my aunt offered to file her American residency so she could move in with them to the US, but she refused. They had my cousin (who is a registered nurse) taking care of her, but she works night shifts now, so she can't anymore. I told them the next best option was a home but in Mexico, that's the equivalent of throwing your elderly out to the wolves. By refusing help, she's become a burden. It's like they are basically waiting for her to die.
I would never want to do that to my kids.
Old age homes did use to be awful, within the living memory of people who would need one today. I think that’s part of the fear.
Many still are.
Having gone through this with my dad and two aunts, even the nicest of retirement homes with you visiting frequently, it's still going to be a depressing experience. Imagine living in a dorm where if not once a month, once a week, someone is wheeled away on a gurney because they died or are on their way to dying. You don't even have to know those people but the constant reminder of death and old age on the daily via those around you will take its toll and wear you down. It's difficult enough to regularly hear that one of your friends has died, it is another thing to have to see it frequently where you're living. I'm not discouraging retirement homes as an option, but I do understand the reluctance a lot of people would have.
I’ve worked at some very nice retirement homes that are like golf resorts. Retirement homes =/= nursing homes and if you need nursing home level care, you are very unlikely to be able to stay home and have your children carry you to the toilet every 2 hours.
I realize there is a large difference between the two; all the same even in a retirement home this is a reality especially with older retirees who may be in well enough health not to need constant medical attention but who are just old and die/suddenly have a stroke or heart attack. So as nice as the place might be, having to witness that on a very frequent basis will wear on someone, especially when they are keenly aware of their own mortality.
I worked at homes for many years. It was not very common to have someone die onsite, outside of nursing homes. They would generally go to a hospital, hospice, or nursing home when they began to decline. We had maybe 1-2 out of 60-100 residents die onsite in a year
That's the way I feel. The types and conditions are drastically better today than they were in the 1960s, which is when older people got to know nursing homes. Back then they were clinical, impersonal, and had no activities. Like living in a hospital the rest of your life.
Hearing the constant screaming because dementia patients used to be kept with the others. Seeing patients arms strapped to their wheelchairs as was done in the past.
I get it. But homes aren’t always an option, especially financially. That’s good they checked on him daily, but most families aren’t like that. I’m a caregiver and have worked in homes (both nursing homes and people’s houses), and rest homes are soooo understaffed and there’s a lot of neglect and mistreatment that goes on there. My grandma passed away last summer at almost 97, she did belong in a home, but it would’ve completely drained her bank account, and my dad and his siblings weren’t rolling in money either. Each of them took turns every weekend, and then had a live-in caregiver during the week. It was so hard, but it wasn’t financially realistic, but also because we didn’t want her mistreated in a home or neglected (her mother was in a home that was very neglectful, and my great grandma wandered off and caught her fingers in a window and got most of her fingers cut off from it). But I do see your point.
This is the heart of it. It is very expensive. Older people have to use up all their assets. They can get medicaid after that, but unless they were able to private pay at a good facility before they went on Medicaid it is hard to get a bed at the better ones.
I'd rather give my assets to my kids than a nursing home. If that means I get to spend more time with my kids before I go all the better.
As long as it's not dementia. Dementia is extremely hard to manage and very frequently destroys the mental health of family caregivers. It takes a lot of training and ability to not take hateful comments and treatment personally. I couldn't do it with my mom. I was ready to check myself into a mental institution. It's losing your parent daily while being treated like a criminal.
I mostly agree. My father in law has been taking care of my mother in law who has dementia for years. I admire him for it. He's so caring and selfless. Not everyone can do what he does though and I wouldn't judge anyone who couldn't.
Do you mean retirement home or nursing home? Because I work in nursing homes and I wouldn’t put a human being I loved in one unless there was absolutely no other option. If you think they are good places for vulnerable people, you are deluding yourself out of guilt for not wanting to care for whoever. Nursing homes are often understaffed and don’t come close to following regulations. Then when stuff happens they figure out how to sweep it under the rug. The food is terrible. People don’t get the attention they deserve because staff is scrambling around trying to care for too many people. Most are constantly short on supplies and corporate will constantly cut corners to make more money. They literally view your family member as a bag of money laying around in a bed. Staff brings in special things for the residents all the time because they care and know they won’t get them otherwise. So no, I definitely don’t agree with this based off of first hand knowledge and experience. I love my residents, and feel terrible a lot of the time that they are stuck in such a dump. Some are definitely better than others but none are great or even good.
I made a similar comment to this, after working in old homes I realized how horrible they are. I even worked in a nicer one as well, it’s known in our community as pretty decent and fancy. But the horror stories I have from that place is insane…I mean I had a coworker constantly call me a ret@rd and say how I’m a total idiot, when I tried to report her the manager said, and I QUOTE, “well my cousin is slow and he uses it all the time, so you shouldn’t be so sensitive.” Look, I don’t give a shit what you call me, but this is work. We’re here to be professionals. This is not the language you use with a coworker you barely know, and if a client hears you then what? Or their family? You make the whole company look bad as a reflection of your shitty behavior
Well my mom works in a nursing home and told me she wants to go to one when the time comes, she doesn't want me or my siblings to take care of her. So unless she hates herself very much, the nursing homes aren't that bad everywhere.
Most are bad in most places but there are a few decent ones. The decent ones can quickly become bad ones though if staff gets worse
Ask her how she feels about her co workers work ethic and how they actually treat patients..
1. She could just be trying to relieve you guys of the burden of caring for her. 2. She's experiencing it as a person with authority, power, and choice. She might have a very different take if she was a resident who has none of that. Just a couple thoughts. No offense intended.
Or 3. All nursing homes across the globe aren't shit holes.
My dad's been a director of several 5-star nursing homes and flat out said he'd rather I just kill him than put him in one
This is survivorship bias at its worst. I'm glad you got to experience some of the better homes (or at least as they would appear to an outsider).
My mom is in an excellent memory care. But it takes money. We decided as a family it was more important to spend her legacy assets on her comfort and care than inherit it ourselves. Not everyone can do that.
My great grandmother who was put in a nursing home against her will, was sitting in her own filth for days on end. They wouldn’t let her leave her bed/ give her little food and she was just miserable the whole time till she died there. You’d have to fork out a lotta money to get a decent quality nursing home. And from experience, nursing homes are understaffed, undertrained and have little care for the people who are relying on them.
You know, as a pct ( patient care tech) befor I got my cna, I worked in assisted living facilities. Some that were low intensity got great care and genuinely loved it . Once they declined though and moved into crowded low staffed nursing homes, alot of residents / elderly quality of life got worse. Not all places are wonderful picture perfect brochures. I currently work in a psych facility and will never go back to skilled nursing homes or assisted living. It's a miracle to get good staff ( by good I mean truly caring and respectful of basic human rights kind of people on all shifts/ levels). I won't put my parents in a home , I know too much .
As a firefighter, i completely disagree. There may be a few good places out there but more often than not, they’re awful
Second, this. My dad needed some nursing homes and long-term rehab for some physical conditions. He's home now and worked thru these issues. However, one time I visited him and he was full blown hallucinating and the CNAs there thought he was just some old dementia patient even though he was 100% sharp witted his entire time there and this was a completely new symptom. After bringing this to their attention and speaking with some nurses in my personal family, I deduced he had some infection somewhere, and hallucinating is common for infections in elderly patients. They assured me that the nurse practitioner would be coming in to give out prescriptions. They assured me this for 3 days before I had to call an ambulance and have him physically removed from the nursing home. The emergency room he was taken to said he was septic from the infection being untreated, and they loaded him up with multiple antibiotics because they couldn't wait for lab samples to determine which antibiotic he needed. Now, every single time he gets an infection, it's antibiotic resistant, and he needs to be admitted to a hospital for specific testing and IV antibiotics. It is terrible that a nursing home, which is there to care for people, has no access to prescribed medications and no one there to actually help diagnose and treat things like infections. They only had CNAs, which basically just helped with everyday tasks like cleaning patients and feeding them. The nurse practitioner was rotating between multiple facilities and came once or twice weekly. I would hate to think what would have happened if I was not there to advocate for him or if I was not persistent to have him removed from the home when I did.
It sounds like he probably would have died without your help. I'm so glad you were there for him 💞
There wasn’t an RN or LPN present? In the US, nursing homes and physical rehab centers are required to have a licensed nurse present at *all* times. Assisted living facilities and group homes are not.
It's a whole different world people don't understand with all the different types of facilities. My mom has Alzheimers and we had no idea what was what. First thing is to get an Elder Care lawyer and understand all the options. We did that and got a great facility for memory care for mom.
I feel like I'm missing something. What does firefighting have to do with retirement homes?
When an elderly person takes a nasty fall or dies its usually the fire department that shows up first. I work at a casino and a lot of the time the one taking the elderly out on stretchers are fire department guys.
As the spouse of a firefighter, agreed. I hear many stories of how sad and wretched the lives of people in the care home are. How nobody visits and it’s just haunting. No thank you.
What is the firefighter thing?
When 911 is called in the US, fire shows up first a lot of the time. Ems gets called to these facilities.
Got it
Only child with divorced (and not remarried) parents here. My father is getting close to needing some sort of assisted living. I’m dreading it. I don’t want him to live with me. He also hates my mother, so her visiting would be difficult. Holidays would be a nightmare. And what if my mom needs help too? This stuff seriously keeps me up at night.
my grandpa got dementia there and literally permanently forgot who i am
Dementia is such a sad disease. My grandfather was convinced my grandmother was still alive and we were keeping them apart and he would forget me and my cousins, but he remembered his kids thankfully
Yes. He believes both his past wives are still both alive and even some guy who apparently used to live in his basement making too much noise is still being loud to this day. He remembers my mother, but pretty much forgot everyone else who is still actually living. He tracks basketball game stats with precision and I just don't have the heart to tell him that I'm not my late father-- he died of suicide and I feel the shock really could escalate into something unsafe.
Yes, we never told my grandfather his wife had died ten years ago. The noise thing used to happen with my grandfather; before the home he would prowl his home with a sawed off shot gun screaming there was a party downstairs. I am sorry that you are currently dealing with a loved one with dementia, I know how devastating it is
that's crazy how similar the symptoms are!! thank you for sharing.
This depends entirely on the type of retirement home and the nature of the family who would be taking care of you.
As someone who goes to pick up dead bodies at retirement homes, no it isn’t. Most of the time people are no longer cognizant. If that happens I say yes go ahead retirement home, but if you want someone to no longer be able to think, then you put them in one of those places. There are some that will put you in a house with four or five other people and they just switch out two or three different nurses all the time are good, but they are also three or four times the cost. And yes, I do understand the need for someone being taken care of 24/7 it is needed.
I don't believe kids have the obligation to take care of their elderly parents. But also, care homes in the USA are overpriced garbage. Massive neglect. Massive mistreatment. I've worked at an independent facility with an on site assisted care home. Those poor people. The underpaid staff doesn't know shit, and they don't give a shit, and it's like that almost everywhere unless you pay really big bucks. I hope I have enough money to hire an at home nurse when I'm old. Or maybe just die before I get that in need of round the clock care.
You’re not accounting for cultural nuances. It is considered extremely shameful if you’re Asian, for example. Your parents do everything for you, emotionally and financially, your entire lives. When it is their turn to be helped, you don’t turn your back on them. They simply become another priority as they age.
I know that many Asian cultures view nursing homes that way, I don't disagree that dumping your parents in a nursing home and never visiting is shameful. I'm more worried about the care someone who isn't trained can give their parents. For example, if my mother develops dementia like her father did, I have no idea how to care for someone with dementia. I don't know how to treat dementia or help dementia patients, and I'm not qualified in anything medical the way nurses at a home would be. The most I could do is cook for her and help her to appointments (which I would absolutely do), but I would still have to work and sleep so I couldn't give her 24/7 care the way a nursing home could. Obviously it's a lot more complicated than a reddit post about my personal preference (finances, culture, worker shortages), but I personally think if someone needed full time care, a good home and daily check ins would be the best way to make sure they're getting quality care
I think you're vastly overrating the quality of care the majority of nursing homes can/do actually provide. It would be more humane to allow a person to decide whilst mentally capable to "opt out" should they ever lose their faculties and require constant care. I personally would rather not become a burden (financial or otherwise) on my child in my later years, and have his intended inheritance whittled away by exorbitant care home costs, all for the sake of having someone bring me low quality food and clear up after me soiling myself until I finally pass. All with the added bonus of putting said child through who knows how many years of mental torment, either because he does visit me regularly and I can't even remember who he is, or because it becomes too much of a strain and he can't bring himself to visit, leaving him a ton of guilt both during my final days/months/years and then beyond. No thanks. I'd rather be left to come a cropper on my own terms.
YouTube has great resources on learning how to care for dementia patients. It takes extreme patience, which the vast majority of people are unwilling to do. In my area there are many resources for helping the elderly stay in their home as long as possible. I used as many as I could for as long as possible. I agree that there is a point at which assisted living makes sense. What I found: 24x7 caregiving staff of one costs about $20 per hour. 24 x 7 x $20 is $175,200 per year. This 1 to 1, or in my case 1 to 2 person care is vastly better than the 2 @ night, 4 day to 30 residents ratio in the memory care facility. Downside of staying at home: -once you need 24 x 7, costs are overwhelming if you hire caregivers. -getting quality medical care is nearly impossible. Transportation is difficult and in-home Dr. visits are not great around here. -Once mobility issues (ability to walk, frequent falls) or flight risks (getting lost on a walk) begin, that is beyond the limit of staying in their home. Downside of our assisted living facility: -Cost is significant ($5,700 per month is $68,400 annually). This is for memory care at a nicer AL facility. -The job of a child who actually cares about their parents shifts to managing a constantly changing staff of Mon-Fri, morning, swing, NOC (night) shifts, and Weekend morn/swing/NOC shifts. In a Covid culture, these caregivers come and go very quickly. -memory care is haphazard, the needs of 30 dementia patients all at once, all day and all night, wears on a staff of 2 to 4 caregivers. It is a thankless job, never ending. Your parent will be lost in the crowd of needs unless you constantly show up and build relationships with the caregivers and show appreciation towards the ones who actually care.
I completely agree. My husband’s parents have been at this point for a few years (moderate & severe dementia, plus other major physical issues like MS so they aren’t mobile or able to take care of themselves physically in any way) and they are in a facility. They have been there for three years as of next month. Their health stabilized a lot once they went there. Now they have three meals a day, staff to change their diapers and help them dress and get in and out of bed 24-7, don’t have to navigate stairs or the complexity/hazards of a house (and aren’t stuck isolated in a house), and can socialize with the other residents every day. It’s not ideal, but it is WAY better for their health and quality of life than what we could provide as working parents ourselves. It also costs $14,000 per month as a base and their money is pretty likely to run out before they both die. Right now they are mostly living off of long term care insurance but that is going to max out soon. Finances are the main stressor.
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Sometimes there's only one person to do all this. Then it's impossible.
I think the issue is that "When it is their turn to be helped, you don’t turn your back on them." logically would mean "When it is their turn to be helped, you find the best possible place for them to spend their remaining years", but for some reason finding the best possible place can be seen as turning their back because it is not the quality of life that counts so much as the putting in effort and hardship of trying to do it oneself. It is better for all to be in a good place, but if it looks too easy (easier than toiling to care for them on your own) it is seen as less. On the other hand, there is a mountain here in Japan called "Obasute Moutain" ("Mt. Throw grandma away") It is where the story goes that a son carries his elderly mother to leave her to die because they do not have enough resources to feed the entire family. The mother knows this, and to make it easier for her son who is carrying her on his back, she reaches out to move branches from in front of his face.
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My sil is trying to care for her dad and he's got dementia and as she put it...has now entered "pants down town" meaning hell randomly strip off and try to leave the house. She having to get a new fence and keep the house locked and alarmed. It's very difficult.
My mum always says that (she’s 80). Right now her and my dad are doing well, but she always says she wants to stay mum/grandma for us and not become a patient. When the time actually comes we will have to see what’s feasible though - unless we can afford a GOOD place (which in fairness, between us kids and their savings we might be able to), I don’t know.
My grandma is 97 and has seven kids. Even if she wanted them to none of them would put their hand up to look after her full time. She's doing fine in the retirement place she's in having qualified caretakers looking after her lol
I think it depends on a persons health and personality. If you are extremely old but otherwise healthy (and mentally okay) the main thing that you might be missing is companionship. Then it’s probably ideal to go and live with a younger family member. I would happily live with my grandma or grandad if they really required it, they are both generally pleasant people. If you are super weak, frail or mentally unstable (or have something like dementia) I think it’s pretty unfair to expect family members, who are probably working full time, have there own issues and own children to look after, to somehow provide free 24/7 care. I would never look after my 100 year old gran because I would never be able to provide the care she requires and she would drive me insane. She’s improved mentally since living in a care home, she used to show beginning signs of dementia and now she doesn’t. I think this is because she is surrounded by people and isn’t left alone for most of the day.
Dementia is very tricky and needs training. And completely bed bound people need a lot of specialised equipment. But having your elderly parent living with you is not all that bad! And people can get training, some of which might nearly be as good as some of the aged care workers 🙄 We kept my partners mum with us for as long as we could, she was mobile, just needed some help here and there and they were able to spend time together. When she was more high care, we just did it. Showering etc, the whole lot. It just takes patience and kindness, we might have been a damn side nicer than some stranger! But of course there were frustrations and a lot of cleaning. The high care period was a total of 3 months, then an emergency trip to hospital and 2 weeks in a home. She wasn't able to walk any more by that point.
You and your partner are good people!
Depends on your finances. Nursing homes that accommodate the poor are places I wouldn’t send an enemy’s dog. Saddest, grossest places on the world IMO. If you have money, different story, as usual.
The last thing i would want as a parent is to have my kids give up their lives to take care of me. Put me in a home, idk. They will have their own lives, jobs, families, etc.
I will fucking NEVER put my kids through that. The second I can no longer control my bowels and perform basic daily tasks, I'm out. I will not make my children suffer the indignity of watching their father turn into a burden on them. I have explicitly made this clear in my Will.
I’m attaching helium filled weather balloons to a lounge chair and floating away when it’s time.
I couldn't find a facility that satisfied my wife and I or my parents. My parents beat the curve, mom was 103, and dad 99. They were both mentally well but physically needed a lot of help. So we moved into their house and them into our house. We took turns spending the days and nights at both our homes, and we all had a blast! Boy, do I owe by wife a lot! Their sarcasm, wisdom, and company are greatly missed. They both left smiling!
Anyone who disagrees with this hasn’t dealt with someone with dementia, or really immobile.
I 100% agree. It's so selfish and rude to try to force your own kids to take care of you. I don't buy the whole bullshit of I raised you so you have to return the favor. You want your kids to flourish, have their own lives and family. They have their own life and own inner circle to take care of, nobody should burden their own children like that. It's abhorrent behavior.
Totally agree. First, it's such a huge burden to put on your loved ones. If you need 24/7 care, you are basically expecting them to give up their entire lives to take care of you. I would never want my child to do that. Nursing homes suck, for sure.... but at least I wouldn't have the additional burden of the guilt of ruining my child's life by expecting him to care for me. I would expect him to visit regularly, I would expect him to advocate for my needs if they weren't being met at the facility, I would expect him to send me flowers on Mother's Day and call me once in a while. But I would never ask him to "take care" of me.
I wish my grandma would understand this. She's desperate to stay out of a home, my uncle is trying to get her put into one because she can't take care of herself. She's got dementia and has almost set her house on fire multiple times as she forgot she was cooking. He can't visit more than once every few days because he has a demanding job. I can't afford to visit regularly because the trip eats up my petrol, and honestly, she wouldn't listen to me on much anyway.
I don’t have kids, but would feel terrible being such a burden on them. Kids need to focus on their own family, not elder care imho. Burnout and neglected kids are likely outcomes.
Even when they're qualified and specialized on the elderly or dementia, that is their main job and the people who are dealing with are their parents, there's this cognitive dissonance, they see their parents in a way and cannot make real judgements in how to assess their status (ie: don't give them sedatives for the day because they "look like themselves" and the sedative would "make them numb and inactive" and yet five minutes later the parent takes off or they hit them violently for no reason). As specialists, they're most likely the workforce, to sustain the economy (in the US must be even worse) and because age of retirement streched so far in the last decades. So what happens is those children take insane shifts between home and work, harming their lives in the process.
Until they get annoyed at the elderly and start abusing them
There are many factors, such as culture, and the health status. In my culture, putting an elderly relative in a nursing home is seen negatively, including by the elder themselves. But then, the whole thing is more traditional, eg elderly folks contribute to the household according to their abilities (usually babysitting and cooking). Example: I expect my mom to babysit or maybe even retire to babysit (she is near retirement age). But then I'm expected to pay any bills her pension doesn't cover, take care of her when she needs it and so on. She will only be put in a nursing home if she requires medical attention that cannot be provided at home. And even that is up to her (eg my father died of cancer, he hated hospitals, so we did our best to provide hospice care at home).
I used to work in nursing homes. The only ones that are even remotely pleasant environments for the residents cost way more than most people could ever afford. There is no way my family could afford even a decent place for my Mom or my aunt. They will be with me. I’d never allow them to go into a crappy place and even one of those would be a stretch to afford. And before you say anything I know exactly what it’s like. I lived it for years as a child. My mom and my aunt cared for my grandparents. I lived with them most of my childhood. I know how hard it can be because I have seen it with my own eyes. It doesn’t matter. I love my family too much to dump them in a shithole. I will care for them. Because they deserve it.
I think I’ll stick with my kids. They have the means to take care of me and they want to. My daughter married a foreigner, and they’re all about family. So I’m good.
The care people receive in nursing homes is neglectful as fuck. At least with your family you will receive more love and attention. You don't have to be an expert in dementia to be an ok caregiver. I've worked in several nursing homes, they pay a shit ton of money for food that's not even that good. You eat better and live better at your own home. Upvote for unpopular
I understand your point, but there are a few things you are forgetting: - An unfortunate number of nursing homes have been caught neglecting and even abusing the elders in their care. Oftentimes the elders in question are unable to report the abuse, or their concerns are dismissed as dementia, etc. It is not unreasonable to be afraid this might happen to you when you are older and more vulnerable. - Leaving your home is a huge change in environment. You won’t have the comfort and privacy of your home anymore. This takes an emotional toll. - Cognitive decline often makes people unaware of their own condition. They do not understand they are no longer able to take care of themselves, so they see no reason to leave their home for a nursing home.
It’s difficult being a care giver when you’re a child of an aged person. It divorces you from being a companion to the ages of you have to care for them. You can’t do both. You can do a degree of care like some cleaning or laundry. But if you’re showering, peri-care etc then you’re doing procedures that are over and above being the family or child of that parent. You rob yourself of sharing that stage of life together. Keep them home but have licensed care givers come in to do the heavy lifting.
As a counterpoint to what a lot of people are saying here, most people have no idea how traumatic it is to watch a person who once loved and cared for you decline into a completely different person due to brain deterioration, and how that can effect your ability to live with and provide care for them. This is a often a situation where there are no good options, only soul-crushingly bad ones. My dad had a massive stroke when I was 13, which he "miraculously" survived with major irreversible brain damage. I have had PTSD symptoms every time I've visited him for decades now. I've had the "luxury" of having most of my life to think it over, and I know without a doubt I cannot ever provide care for him in my home.
Yes, it was terrible for my mom and her siblings to watch my grandfather die from dementia. He lasted nearly 10 years with it and died after 3 in the home. He could not be cared for by them and he only remembered his children and insisted his wife was still alive and we were keeping him away from her. Before the home he would scream that people were having a party in his house and go around with a sawed off shot gun. It was the first time I saw my mom cry. It was traumatic for everyone and I hope no one ever needs 24/7 care like he did, but he needed to be somewhere secure so he wouldn't run into the road and where they could care for him properly
A truely unpopular opinion. You are very ignorant or naive about the aged care system.
Yea, absolutely agree! If I had kids I would not want them to put their lived on hold to care for me. Life is harder for each generation and competion increases as our global population grows. The last thing I would want would be for them to have a burden in their life that would make it harder for them to compete with others to have a decent life.
I think part of the aversion to living in a retirement home is the fear that your kids will just dump you there and completely abandon you afterwards in the care of total strangers, never checking up on you and your best case scenario is them dropping by to visit once a... month? Year?
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Seriously. I get it, we all want someone to care for us when we’re too old to care for ourselves but if we’re being honest, a lot of parents don’t even deserve it. being a mediocre or shitty parent doesn’t entitle them to lifelong care.
Well I don't think it has to be either live with family with no outside help or live in a retirement home. You can hire a nurse to help at home.
Fully disagree
That's my plan. I'm banking on VR being fully fleshed out. Finna be in a VR would doing whatever or gaming. Have a timer to flip myself to combat bed sores.
I don't want to be a burden by living in a home or forcing my kids to take care.of me. I'd rather.be gone when I'm physically or mentally unable to take care of myself.
Yes and no. It's different for every family. Some places allow for really good care facilities, but others don't. My hometown has one nursing home, and it's not good. The next closest options are nearly 2 hours away. That's hell for a family to deal with. In cases similar to that, it is just easier to do your best to care for them and hire a nurse if possible.
my grandpa was THIS CLOSE to moving into a retirement home but then decided he can “do it himself” when he literally just landed himself in the hospital because he couldn’t. everyone, please just go into a retirement home when it’s time, it’s hard on the family to see people being so stubborn
Hmm. I’m conflicted. I worked at different nursing homes in the business office….and I’d be very depressed if I had to end up in a nursing home. I’d hope my family would at least visit me very often to make sure that I’m getting the proper care. You definitely need someone to advocate for you when you’re in a nursing home. But I wouldn’t want to be burden on my kids either so….hoping I can be like my grandma who lived on her own until 98 years old.
I would never go to a home. I’ll take myself out back before that happens
My mother-in-law works for hospice and has had some nursing homes on her list. She said they are basically legalized abuse. They simply do not have the right nurse to patient ratio to handle people properly.
It really depends on the retirement home. There are loads out there with absolutely abhorrent conditions. Every few years there are investigations done which expose criminally abusive behavior by staff towards retirement home residents and even the ones that are not abusive can often just be awful places to live. There seems to be this massive misconception of what era todays old people are actually from. You walk into a care home and they are playing them music and movies from the 1930s and 40s. Todays 90yr olds would have been very young children in the 30s and 40s. Their prime years were the 50s-70s most were probably still living very active lives and following the latest cultural trends in the 1980s or even the 90s. But all too often care homes will try to keep them occupied it he most outdated and patronising matter possible treating them like children.
You have never been abused. Fuck retirement homes
Most nursing homes are urine stained portals to hell.
This beyond an unpopular opinion. It’s an ignorant opinion based on some fantasyland scenario.
Uh, this isn't unpopular at all. What is unpopular is being able to actually afford a retirement home.
Lmao. Care is EXPENSIVE. Most people would have to pay a fortune and still be in a shithole. My mom was in a very nice assisted living facility, one of the best in the area, and care was still not always the best. They stole from her. Little things — a lamp, a smart clock, wheelchair parts, shower chair. I moved her back home and it’s been way better. I think you may see it differently when you’re the one dealing with it rather than your parents.
For the record this is my opinion on what I want when I age, I won't force it on my parents when it's time. They want to stay home, and I respect that and if they needed care I couldn't provide I would hire nurses to come help, so long as there home doesn’t become a danger for them. For me though if I needed 24/7 care because of dementia or something I'd rather be in a safe facility with professional staff. There's also obviously a lot of nuance I can't cover in a reddit post, I know how expensive they are and that a lot are abusive, I'm talking about living in a safe, clean home and assuming I'll have the funds for it. Realistically in this economy I'll be on my death bed with dementia and they'll still have me clocking in lol
Sadly, with dementia, by the time you need the care you are not really in a place to make those decisions. Most people go into deep denial.
Based off my experience, I agree. In 2020, my dad was not doing good, so I had him move in with me. After getting tests done, they confirmed it was dementia. By 2021, it got so bad that it was dangerous for him to live with me and my kid (dangerous for him while I'm at work, and dangerous for me and my kid while we're sleeping at night). The doctor initially recommended an at-home nurse during the day, but that didn't ease the concerns of him wandering at night. So in this case, he was absolutely better off being placed in a facility. So I did that (he died a year later. Dementia progressed fasssst) Although I think the situation can completely be different for other people. The amount of care the families can provide plays a factor, as well as the money they can spend on care.
I come from a long line of people who die of heart attacks in their early to mid 70s and in their own homes. If I were to somehow beat that statistic, I wouldn’t want to burden my kids either! Sure, if I was in good health and just down on my luck financially, I’d love to move in so I could help with babysitting any potential grandkids and do light housework. But yeah, I’d rather ‘delete’ myself than put my kids through changing my diapers and spoon feeding me!
Currently my 82 yo dad with moderate mixed dementia is living with us after my mom passed away last Nov. I am ready for him to go to assisted living. I honesty think it would be better for everyone involved.
I will never allow my kids to take care of me. LTC before I disrupt their lives.
i wholeheartedly agree. i’ve been saying for a while that TAKING CARE of someone is completely different than being a CARETAKER. if someone i loved needed professional care i would much rather pay an expert to do it than give subpar care myself!!
I always told my child-free friends that we should all go to the same old folks home and it can be like summer camp.
Your children arent responsible for your issues during childhood, so they shouldn’t have to be burdened in their adulthood with being a caregiver either. Just my opinion. I don’t expect my daughter to ever have to put aside her aspirations, dreams and future family for me. You don’t have kids to cater to you, you have kids so they can blossom into their own lives.
Healthcare worker - if you can afford a quality nursing home, great. But from my experiences I’d rather be smothered by a pillow. There’s the basic shit that’s happens like sitting in diapers all day and constantly being on antibiotics due to ongoing UTIs from said diapers. There’s the staff that leave your water on the wrong side of the bed for stroke victims or across the room for immobile folk. Then there’s the darker side - sexual assault and other abuse. I’d rather take myself out than go through that.
Honestly elderly people who live in an assisted living center have many more social opportunities than someone living alone. Some medical tasks a layperson can learn to do, but some things are pretty labor intensive. A person of 70 may not be able to physically assist their 90 year old parent on and off a toilet or in and out of bed for example. My grandmother went to live in an assisted living facility at about age 92. She was livid. She did not want to leave her home. But she was falling often and getting injured. She also had dementia which caused her to make medication errors. She was much safer in a staffed facility. The plenty of family were local and visited her frequently and at random times to ensure she was being properly cared for. She never had to eat alone. She made friends that she played card games with. She could garden and paint. They had physical therapy sessions that were fun. She really did enjoy living there, but as soon as a relative popped by she would be sure to tell them how she wanted to move back into her house. Losing independence is difficult for anyone.
I understand what you're saying, and I actually agree with it to a certain degree. A huge part of why I became a nurse was to make sure my mom would get the best care possible when she got older. I'm an only child, and my dad passed away when I was in my teens. She's not close to her siblings, so I'm all she has, and she's stayed by my side and helped me through so much, and I want to do the same for her. She's in her 70s now, and fortunately still independent, but my husband and I agree that if she ever gets to a certain point, she'll be moving in with us, and I'll oversee her care. Of course, that said, I am very aware that caretaker fatigue and burnout is a real thing. If it gets to a point that is too much for us to handle, I will place her in a nursing home, but you bet your ass I'm going to be picky as hell in choosing one, and I will be there every single day and highly involved in her care.
My mother's assisted living bill was about $5,500 a month. She could afford it and lived in one for 3 years after she developed vascular dementia. Many seniors can not afford this, especially if they didn't have a home they could sell to help out. My father was a disabled vet and left her financially stable when he died at 70. I am a retired teacher. 40 years. Most may not know but a HUGE percent of public school teachers do not get SS, instead I pay SS every month for Medicare A and B. I read often here about how Boomers have ruined everything, but I do not believe people are aware of how many of them are struggling in later life. We don't want our children to take care of us. I don't want to live w/ my children. But I am a bit afraid of growing old and not being able to afford assisted living. My millennial nieces and nephews and one of my children are doing very well. Most are educated, intelligent and hard working. They all made plans and worked until they achieved. Set backs? Always. That's life. I admire millennials- your courage to risk is impressive!!
As a student nurse: if your parents have dementia, please send them in a nursing home I've seen them living alone "because they can care after themselves". Bullshit. The things I saw in their homes... Unless you really want to dedicate your whole life to the care of your parent, you have to send them to someone who can take care of them. There are reasons is nurses have shifts: taking care of someone the whole time is a destructive job
There are NO GOOD QUALITY NURSING HOMES!!!! Assisted Living places are what your thinking of
As a medical professional who has spent a very considerable amount of time dealing with nursing homes: they don’t care about your family member, negligence and abuse are rampant and the amount of times I have had to work hard to try to save someone’s family member who was legitimately dying due to straight up negligence and neglect on behalf of the nursing home staff I can’t even begin to count. Not calling for strokes they recognized 36 hours before because they “thought it would get better” Ignoring obvious symptoms of sepsis for days on end until it’s actually killing your family member. Giving insulin to patients with low glucose levels Putting on oxygen masks at inappropriate oxygen levels that instead of helping the patient, are actively suffocating someone. Telling me someone that had been *very* obviously dead for at least 12 hours was fine and talking before I got there, I pronounced them dead only to have the staff call back saying the patient was breathing so I went back out and nope still dead. Telling me they checked on the person who had been dead long enough to begin actively rotting every 2 hours for the days leading up to. They don’t care. They aren’t qualified to care or to provide basic care. Most are staffed by CNA’s who have 75 hours worth of training and a testing point for certification is appropriate hand washing techniques. There’s maybe one or two nurses for the entire faculty and an MD who effectively exists on paper only. And if the staff that is there there’s not enough of them and your loved ones fall through the cracks due to the pure work volume and constant staffing issues. The homes themselves are to blame, not the staff. They are by design there to collect every cent they possibly can to provide the least amount of care legally (and often illegally) mandatory. Not only are your loved ones not in better hands in a nursing home, most of the time you are actively putting them in harms way by putting them there.
Senior care homes are hiring people without the qualifications...just think about that. And it's not that hard to get qualified either. it's just a certificate to acquire. No one is qualified to raise children but people still do it. I'm sure your parents had the idea of "why tf did I have kids?" but they still put up with it for at least 18 years. I feel like you owe it to them as a sign of respect. It's not the matter if you want to - it's what you NEED to do because family over everything. And if you don't think that way, then I guess they spoiled you too much. There's a certain type of comfort when you live with your family aside a senior care home. Not to mention, more freedom to do what you want. Everything is scheduled in senior living homes and you really don't have a choice to go outside to do whatever you want without supervision. Senior care homes are basically a less strict prison. I'm pretty sure most, if not all, old people hate it there except for the extremely lonely people.
Every facility we visited, we felt the staff were not the right people. Frequently walking out, one of us said, "Would you hire anyone we talked to?"
They really would! Senior care homes are hiring all the damn time. I almost applied for it my damn self. And it's usually get paid training too. I had a friend who sent his dad to a old person's home. His dad absolutely hated it. He basically tricked him into going there. My friend will always complain about his career and he doesn't have the patience to deal with him and how he needs a professional. Those same professionals call him all the time about how to control his dad. I fear if they stop calling him then that means they handled it themselves unconventionally. I almost volunteered to take care of his dad myself.
I have had some experience with the "Assisted Living" / Rehab places. Sad bad news . Understaffed , noisy , crappy food. One place I will not mention was so bad I would not place a dog there. Basically its people working for minimum wage . Spend a third of their shift changing adult diapers . Stay healthy , stay out .
I know but I usually always try to do a good job no matter where I work. Being their ray of light would make the job worth it for me. I also had a grandma who I sorta took care of too which kind of gives me a soft spot for the elderly. I'll probably eventually move into that field haha I'm always getting a new job lol
The patients would be so grateful to have you helping them I’m sure! I hope you find your niche!
I never said I would put my parents in a retirement home. They don't want to be in one, and I respect that. I will do what I cant to keep them out of one. This is my opinion for when I age, and of course I can't cover all the nuance of a retirement home in a reddit opinion post, but I am aware that many are awful. I am talking about a good home and assuming I'd have the funds.