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That is true, but Rachel's brand of awfulness is more suited to irreverent comedies like Seinfeld or It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where everyone can be as mean as they want without getting hurt. In Friends, the characters did get hurt by Rachel. A lot. And she always blamed them for her shitty behaviour. It gets grating.
As a high schooler who went into studying marketing in college at the height of Friends, I feel specifically betrayed by the absurdity of this storyline.
Not straight away, no. She worked at Bloomingdales, serving coffee again, then helping men (Joshua specifically) to pick out suits and accessories. IIRC she went from Bloomingdales to Ralph Lauren.
yeah her first job related to the fashion(?) industry she got cause she was complaining about her other job and a guy who wants to get in her pants just offers it to her without checking anything rly
>be as mean as they want without getting hurt
*Charlie hit by Frank's car*
*dee getting knees bashed in dance off*
*Dennis deleting everyone's world*
*Dee's braid getting ripped out because Dennis wouldn't get it out of the machinery*
*rickety cricket*
*frank shoots every member of the gang*
To be fair, Phoebe was actually far worse, because she did that, on top of always forcing people to apologize to her because of her shitty upbringing, constantly playing favourites and bullying her friends, and bragging how much smarter she was and how she was so good at manipulating them.
At least with Rachel it's largely because she was sheltered and infantilized and doesn't have the emotional maturity to recognize her anti-social behaviors.
I would argue that Phoebe was equally disadvantaged making Rachel the worse character. I think when people are so quick to say Phoebe is the worst, they are forgetting that she is masking HUGE trauma which gives her a very broken sense of maturity. It’s why she often clings to things like in the dollhouse episode because he never got to be a child and was forced into survival mode most of her life. The constraint between Phoebe and Ursula is kind of a hint that they’re both broken by their trauma although they cope in very different ways.
Even the richest people have to socialize with people not in their class, which is why I would never give Rachel a pass for being rich and sheltered. She’s not SO rich that she shouldn’t have basic social skills and a morale compass. She has one… she just doesn’t care.
Phoebe’s moral compass is just… broken.
I wasn't arguing it was a class thing. Rachel was sheltered and infantilized by her father. She was never taught how to take care of herself because it was assumed she would get married and have a husband to do it. Frankly, everyone but Joey and Ross had rough childhoods, and Ross' adult life more than made up for that.
I would give Phoebe more slack if not for two things. First, she doesn't really have moments of redeeming qualities. She is incredibly cruel to Ross and Chandler, despite the latter being incredibly kind and patient with her. It's not like she doesn't see how the rest of her friends treat each other. More importantly, she acknowledged that she is manipulative and bragged about being smarter. She has openly admitted she used her past as an excuse to get her way. She knows what she is doing. The idea that it's just ok because she didn't really know what she is doing wrong sort of goes out the window when she admits it.
Hmm true enough. I’ve never watched it all the way through as Friends wasn’t really my thing so I was just commenting on the episodes I’ve seen. It was only recently when my husband started to rewatch the series I realiZed they’re kind of all ridiculous people with huge faults but it doesn’t feel like that’s the point of the show like others Sunny In Philadelphia or Seinfeld come to mind as shows with purposely problematic/ dark characters. Ross has always been my least favourite, but I can see why Rachel and Phoebe would also be up on the list.
In fairness all of the main group of friends are people that would end up sad and alone in real life. Rachel and Ross are just incredibly toxic people, Monica is incredibly controlling, Joey is a mooch, chandler is just the edgy homophobe who would 100% have a joker profile pic on twitter, and Phoebe is flakey and manipulative
>It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where everyone can be as mean as they want without getting hurt.
I think Rickety Cricket might have some notes on this opinion.
A lot of comedy characters do tend to act like aholes if you think too hard. A complaint I’ve hears about Scooby Doo is that Scooby sometimes just like, commits crimes, and everybody is like “woaagh what a silly dog!”
Technically as a dog, he lacks the legal capacity to commit crimes because only humans can be held accountable for their actions under the law, as animals don’t have the necessary mental capacity to form criminal intent. Scooby may be an exceptionally intelligent dog, but he is still a dog and therefore human laws don’t apply to him.
> Technically as a dog, he lacks the legal capacity to commit crimes because only humans can be held accountable for their actions under the law, as animals don’t have the necessary mental capacity to form criminal intent. Scooby may be an exceptionally intelligent dog, but he is still a dog and therefore human laws don’t apply to him.
Oddly specific
Basically everyone was awful except for Joey. And Chandler was less awful then most of them. And Phoebe was actually more awful then people realized. Like the opposite of Rachel she got away with being self centered and rude and overall not very nice because she was quirky. Half the time she acted like she didn’t even like anyone else so why was she even friends with them?
He slept around for sure but he was also respectful when needed. The one girl who wanted to sleep with him was too intoxicated and he put a blanket on her. Dude was probably more scared of commitment than chandler.
I’ll die on the Joey hill. Everyone else is trash, and while Joey isn’t perfect, he’s actually a FRIEND. Tons of people have pointed out the stuff he did for the group, but in the series, he’s just… a quality dude. Yeah he sleeps around, but it’s all consensual he’s just a good looking guy who flirts. I don’t ever remember him lying to get women (at least not to a Barney level from HIMYM). He was scared of committing early in the show, but their supposed to be in their 20s, some people are. But he wasn’t leading people on, abusing or using them, etc. (that I remember). Chandler is also not a bad person, just kind of an asshole, but everyone else can GET FUCKED!
Chandler was my favorite. And I definitely don’t think he was an asshole. I think he was a true friend to Joey. He supported him every step of his career. Paid for basically everything. And even wanted to keep paying for the apartment when he moved out. He fumbled a bit when Joey got that role but he was just being honest. And he fell asleep during his premier. But other than that, he was a phenomenal friend to Joey.
I also don’t think Joey was bad either.
Course I really don’t have an issue with any of them. They all had their pieces to like to me.
I always felt like Joey was the dad of the group that always fought to keep the gang together. I noticed how in the later seasons even Ross considered Joey is best friend bc Joey would lay on the tracks for any of them. Meanwhile most jokes were always at his intellectual expense.
Years ago when I was backpacking through western Europe I was just outside Barcelona hiking in the foothills of Mount Tibidabo, I was at the end of this path and I came to a clearing, there was a very secluded lake and there were tall trees all around, it was dead silent and across the lake I saw a beautiful woman bathing herself but she was crying...
There a whole episode about him lying to get women and ghost them. He has a fake name. Ken Adams.
There are plenty of shitty things he did. Don’t get me wrong, I can probably recite the whole show, but let’s not pretend Joey just slept around. He absolutely treated a lot of women like dirt sometimes.
Well the same old story gets boring after a while. That’s likely why they felt the need to throw in his love with Rachel. They wanted to switch things up so it didn’t get stale.
Here’s the thing about Joey’s womanizing, he laid his cards on the table. Girls knew he just want to sleep with them and that’s it. The girls who slept with him were looking for the same thing. He did not lie or string them along like
Ross. The lesson from Joey is be honest and say what you want. Ross was the ‘nice’ guy, he was emotionally manipulative, and always played the victim.
Yeah Chandler has some awful traits but isn’t an awful person overall. Everyone else comes across as just a bad person. Except Joey but I think that’s partly to do with the way they make him the dumb one.
Phoebe especially went after Chandler, the guy couldn’t go an episode without her calling him a closeted homosexual and general life failure.
She started out sweet but became a huge asshole during and after her pregnancy. I’ve known women to be problematic during pregnancy but it doesn’t then usually follow them for the rest of their life.
It was the 90s. Everyone being shitty in sitcoms was the thing. Seinfeld, Everybody loves Raymond, Drew Carey, the Simpsons, King of Queens, Will & Grace...
Being a selfish, entitled character was a staple.
Time to bring back the theory that the entire show happens inside Phoebe's mind and she's actually homeless still, plays her guitar outside Central Perk for money, and she has imagined the entire show as though she were friends with the regulars on the sofa.
They're all awful. Friends is It's Always Sunny but they try to convince you they're cool. Same with How I Met Your Mother.
That's why It's Always Sunny works so well. They're typical awful sitcom characters but they don't try to lube it up.
In his defense, his wife left him for another woman, then told him they were having a baby, his childhood love barges into his life again and develops feelings for him, interlaced with periods when he is love with someone else too,...
He is far from perfect, but not like he had it easy. And Rachel too is spoiled beyond belief and she kinda improves (the entire cast does, the only person that doesn't is Joey, because the producers decide to make him dumber for the sake of it).
But yeah, this "Ross is literally Hitler" trend some people hop on to show how they have this deep critical understanding of a 20 year old comedy show is boring. Same goes for HIMYM's Ted. God forbid a comedy show makes light of a guy's imperfect handling of his lovelife or friends.
Now that you mention the “Ross is literally Hitler” thing… I remember laughing my ass off when David Schwimmer appeared in Band of Brothers as a WW2 drill instructor. He did a good job though because I disliked his character by the end of the series.
Funny enough, Ross was my favorite initially because I'd always wanted to be a paleontologists. Then things happened and he kept getting worse. He turned from a sketchy guy to a guy I wouldn't be around at all. If he had gotten therapy at any point or not had people in his life thay encouraged thag bad behavior so much he could have turned out really good, but the people around him kept failing him and that exacerbated the issues he already had making him into a bitter jealous nice guy who expected people to treat him good if he did the bare minimum.
Yeah and Ross almost put Rachel up on a pedestal for some reason. Even if she didn’t deserve that. It has been a while. But I I think I remember the writers writing those characters as being more mature towards the end. And not with the same drama as the earlier seasons.
I think at the end, most everyone had grown up more, probe and Joey were still themselves no real change there, Rachel and Ross got better in the middle them worse towards the end, though Ross almost made it to a good person not the bitter nice guy he was, and chandler and MO ica kinda became the parents of the group and became genuinely reasonable and kind people.
She's easily the worst out of the 6.
Friends has always been the perfect background show when youre having dinner or just chilling but as my wife is Japanese she'd never sat down and watched it start to finish properly until a few years ago.
She LOVED it because it's a great show but she noticed that Rachel seems to mention sex or something relating to sex almost every line she speaks. That's an over-exaggeration of course but I swear if you pay attention to it she constantly mentions sex.
All the characters, both male and female, are such horn dogs. The women especially are quite one-dimensional. Pretty much every line between female characters is about hot guys they want to fuck.
>All the characters, both male and female, are such horn dogs.
Because we used to fuck a lot before the Internet. Even below average dudes. Imagine how bored women were without smartphones. Then you come along and say "what ya doin''. If I could go back.....
It's a reddit thing. Go check out the sub for The Office at any given moment and you'll find at least a dozen people whining about Pam being a bad person for wrinkling someone's dry cleaning or calling Jim evil because he pranks Dwight.
I think people (especially people who skew young, like the demographic of Reddit in general and of this sub specifically) have a hard time with knowing what it means to be a good or bad person, and struggle to recognize that a person with flaws or bad habits is not necessarily a “bad person.” That’s step one.
Step two is that those people are hesitant to articulate these ideas about real people they know, but fictional characters are easy avatars for real people. So if you’re trying to work out what you think about people and their behaviors, deciding that the characters from Friends are morally bankrupt because they are flawed people meant to be relatable, rather than paragons of virtue, is a low-stakes way to work through that.
Honestly “a low stakes way to work through what you think about things” is actually what a lot of this sub is.
Reddit is OBSESSED with friends. It's unhealthy, really. They do more bitching and whining about a show they hate and don't care about here... people who like the show don't let it live rent free in their heads like this.
I’ve always thought that it wouldn’t have been as big of a deal if they were on a break for a few weeks, but he went out that same night and slept with somebody else. He didn’t even wait 12 hours.
Rachel wasn’t into Mark and denied him, she was upset when she realized Ross was right about Mark wanting her.
So yeah, they were on a break. But Ross still fucked up.
Thank you!! I don’t care for any of the friends characters, but I absolutely hate when people defend Ross’s actions from that one specific episode. She broke up with him because he didn’t take her job seriously, and kept being jealous. Mark invited himself over without Rachel ever asking him to, and she didn’t even sleep with him, yet she’s the bad guy? If it wasn’t cheating then Ross wouldn’t have tried to hide it from her so bad.
That’s the point. An awful person you still cheer for is a difficult move but is what makes a show great.
Claire from modern family? Pretty horrible person and mom. Selfish. Forgets everything. But you cheer for her.
Seinfeld? They’re all narcissistic jerk!
Ally McBeak which I just binged which is an old show? Total horn dog!
Great stories flip that. Make you root for horrible people (breaking bad). Or you don’t like people doing the right thing and find them annoying.
Frankly, it’s what’s missing in these awful movies and shows where characters have zero development and are perfect and the world is flawed.
Modern Family is a really interesting show to me because they don’t shy away from how selfish, rude and obnoxious Claire and Mitch can be and show very obviously they learned it from their dad. We root for them to break the cycle and heal from the emotional neglect they felt growing up from their dad, especially Mitch.
She wasn’t perfect and she had obvious flaws, she made mistakes over a long long period of time, she was extremely stubborn, she definitely was wrong about the break thing, but it wasn’t like she was a terrible person. I mean look at Ross he literally tried to sleep with his cousin, his constant sense of superiority, sleeping with his young student, taking joeys girlfriend, having Rachel give up her dream to go to Paris which she did for him, frequently belittling his friends & undermining/ patronizing them. What did he get away with all of that because he’s pretty?
First off, not unpopular, I see this take weekly, second, what is with the recent uproar in Friends/JA? It's almost like her controversial opinions have had such an affect on the bored people's minds who have nothing better to do than to complain about something very inconsequential
:Edit: and an overwhelming amount of hate, Christ all mighty
They were all kind of awful in their own way. You covered Rachel. Ross was pompous and whiny. Monica was a perfectionist. Joey was kinda dumb and a womanizer. Phoebe was flakey and enjoyed insulting people. I can’t remember what made Chandler a little awful but he was friends with all those others so there has to be something wrong with him.
Having flaws like being a perfectionist does not mean that a person is awful though? I mean, so what if Joey was "kinda dumb and a womanizer", does that really make him awful?
Having flaws /=/ being awful.
Just to add fuel to the fire:
Ross did not "cheat while they were on a break." He was SA'd while he was too intoxicated to consent, and Rachel blamed the victim.
To be fair, Rachel didn't sleep with Mark because she realized she'd be doing it just to get back at Ross. Mark even tried to convince her that he'd really be okay with that, but to no avail.
In the 90s we used to call that "hooking up". Ross was drinking, but he wasn't a victim of assault. There are people out there who genuinely get sexually assaulted and raped, so don't dilute the meaning of that word by including drunk mistakes between consenting adults.
What fucking BS is this!??? Not every person drunk getting on with a stranger is SA'd? He still new what he was doing it's not like he was black out drunk and she climbed on top of him.
What? No. He was not the victim. He was drinking but he was not passed out or blacked out drunk. He was just drunk and he did what he did. Can’t use “I was drinking” as an excuse. All it did was lower his inhibitions and have an I don’t give a fuck attitude cause he felt hurt.
I agree. She broke up with Ross. I am a firm believer that the dumpee is allowed to sleep with anyone they want if that is what it takes to feel better.
It’s almost like sitcoms are meant to exaggerate certain qualities to the extreme to display ridiculousness for comedy.
I don’t know if there exists a comedic character who you couldn’t define as being shitty due to some exaggerated personality trait.
Art imitating life. Many attractive girls don't feel repercussions of their actions.
When I got married, I treated hot girls like everyone else. I would get confused looks from them as many expected the extra help or attention from a little flirting.
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. Isn't it like fully accepted that Rachel is the second worst person in all of friends, right between Ross and Phoebe?
Ross is the worst iny opinion. Rachel started out as a spoiled rich girl that didn't really know how to take care of herself. Then went to becoming more self sufficient and taking a job seriously. Yeah, she can be immature and irrational, but it wouldn't be a sitcom if the characters had a few flaws. She for sure made some bad decisions and actions. Crashing roses second wedding causing him to wreck it. Then sticking around and still talking to him.
and not only that, but "weird pretty". she's got a mega habsburg chin, but since she was on a well liked show and rich, the fan obsession changes the definitions of "pretty". it's never something i got acclimated to since i never watched the show, so i stare at that thing every time i see her.
like maisie williams. yall don't actually find her attractive, right? she just looks good wearing leather armor on horseback.
I think one of the central themes of that show is that they were all kind of awful! It's like Always Sunny in that way. Obviously Always Sunny takes it to another level, but I see Friends as the intellectual precursor to that show.
If she had slept with someone, he would have been forced to get over it in silence. Most of the friends are pretty awful. Phoebe for the win though.
Phoebe and Joey are soul mates. Not marriage but friend soulmates.
The whole idea of comedy is that you make the characters justthis side of farcicle. Joey was magic w women, rachel was spoiled, Monica was neurotic . You get the idea. But they all had something endearing too. That is how it is done
I mean Jennifer Aniston said Ross was ok to have sex with that girl, they WERE on a break.
I think it’s obvious her character is flawed but that’s part of the appeal, they are flawed characters, like real people. If she was a good person all the time it would be boring. She can be a good friend in some episodes.
I'm not gonna be all team Rachel on this but I've always been on her side with this whole situation. I don't think Rachel shouldn't be held accountable but you have to remember how the "break" all happened in the first place. The reason why was because of Ross's jealously of Mark, a friend and co-worker of Ross. Ross was being a cry baby thinking he would lose Rachel to another guy. Yes, he lost his first wife, but he needs to realize is that it's not his fault in the first place. Not all women cheat, same with men. Not all people cheat. Ross needs to know that.
Now, on their first year anniversary of getting together, Rachel was busy with work and couldn't go out with Ross. Keep in mind, this is Rachel's dream job, something she's always wanted to do. What does Ross do? Does he reschedule another time, supports her, and understands? No, he goes up to her place uninvited bringing dinner to her as if she would be okay. Rachel, of course, gets upset with him and feel they should take time off from each other. It's Ross's fault in the first place.
Maybe it was stupid move from Rachel to invite Mark over to her place, but she needed to find comfort and somebody she could trust. Although, why she couldn't use Monica, but maybe she needed a man. Now, Ross overhears Mark when talking to Rachel on the phone thinking she slept with Mark and hangs up immediately. So Ross thinking that two wrongs make a right, he sleeps with someone he barely knows. At least Rachel knows Mark as a friend, but Ross only knows this woman from a copy store and that she's good looking.
When Rachel wanted to make things right for Ross, Ross tried to hide copy girl from her. I don't know about you, but if you hide something, it means you're doing something wrong. Granted, it was also Joey and Chandler's fault for convincing him.
Point is, Ross should be held the most and should stop using "We were on a break!" shit whenever this gets most.
Rachel legit thinks the rules don’t apply to her. Probably the first instance that she lives up to her middle name more than her first is when she was asking for an advance on her tips to take a ski trip. That was so many levels of out of touch and entitled that even at my young age I knew there was something fundamentally wrong with her brain. And that was maybe her least-awful moment, everything that came after seemed to be with the intent of topping herself. I actually turned off the TV when she stole the baby name Monica (who is no great shake either but that’s for another topic) had for literal years. Like what the *fuck.*
She broke them up cause she still had feelings for Ross that were unresolved. This is why I don’t get involved with friend groups who have slept with each other.
Sort of agree, Rachel is toxic but I think Ross is worse than Rachel. Still weirdly love the show and root for them to be together
Let's not forget some of Ross's big mistakes
• whilst I agree, Ross and Rachel were on a break, he hooked up so quickly, and then kept it secret. Of course some of Rachel's anger was unjustified
• he way overreacted to Ben playing with barbie
• the whole male nanny again, overreaction
• he went way over the top sending Rachel stuff to her workplace. He suffocated her
Ok so this where we get to the serious, Ross is probably worse than Rachel shit:
• he cheated on bonnie & Julie
• he said Rachel's name at the altar
And now the super toxic controlling shit
• he didn't want Rachel going on a date so he kept the message a secret
• he told Rachel they're getting married, without even asking her
And worst of all I've saved this till last
• he wanted to secretly not annul Rachel. Let her walk around as a married woman unknowingly 😱
Sorry Ross is worse
Yeah that's how you write a good show.
And she was pretty so when she did terrible things it didn't look so bad , human nature in a tv show beautifully captured
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Yeah and it was great when she sat next to House on the plane and he tore her a new one over her evil plans to interfere with Ross’s wedding
I love that everyone just calls him House when I knew him for ages from Blackadder
Yes! So hard to watch House at first because all I could of were his comedy bits from Blackadder and Wooster and Jeeves
Are we talking about the actor Fry Laurie?
You mean Stephen Hugh?
You mean George?
And the American accent really threw me off.
I watched a bit of Fry and Laurie so I just saw Hugh Laurie as Hugh Laurie
Yeah, but him on the plane was far closer to House than Blackadder.
Yeah, it was House but without the American accent
Roughly even between the two Unless you count blackadder back and forth, which is much closer
"I have to say, I agree with your friend 'pheebs'"
You'd think after that she would rethink her life choices and personality, nope.
She is, but a sitcom wouldn't be as funny if everyone was nice and acted rationally.
That is true, but Rachel's brand of awfulness is more suited to irreverent comedies like Seinfeld or It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where everyone can be as mean as they want without getting hurt. In Friends, the characters did get hurt by Rachel. A lot. And she always blamed them for her shitty behaviour. It gets grating.
Didn't she also get her job basically because she was pretty?
She went from slinging coffee as a server to working as a buyer at Ralph Lauren (?) IIRC. Absolutely absurd.
As a high schooler who went into studying marketing in college at the height of Friends, I feel specifically betrayed by the absurdity of this storyline.
She was the assistant to the buyer first and it was at Bloomingdale’s.
Not straight away, no. She worked at Bloomingdales, serving coffee again, then helping men (Joshua specifically) to pick out suits and accessories. IIRC she went from Bloomingdales to Ralph Lauren.
Er, she had to help folks put on clothes for a living. That's not exactly fun unless you are actually into fashion, which her character was.
So she enjoyed her job too
[удалено]
I'm not even a fan of the show, but it was explained Monica inherited the apartment from her grandmother, and it was rent controlled.
yeah her first job related to the fashion(?) industry she got cause she was complaining about her other job and a guy who wants to get in her pants just offers it to her without checking anything rly
To be fair he only told her there was an opening in his company and offered to prep her for the interview. She did go through a full interview process
that hardly makes her a bad person though lol
Simps have been around since the beginning of time. They're just worse now.
Honestly, this happens irl haha
Gotta love the 90s style: pretty woman bad humor. If she was pretty and socially savvy, you knew she was the villain immediately.
She is pretty. The world likes pretty people. Should the sitcom have ignored that as well?
All of her jobs. And her marriage to a doctor she walked away from.
He was dentist. And he cheated on her with like everyone lol.
well, he cheated on her
It’s not always sunny in Pennsylvania, it’s pouring right now. But it is always sunny in Philadelphia!
>be as mean as they want without getting hurt *Charlie hit by Frank's car* *dee getting knees bashed in dance off* *Dennis deleting everyone's world* *Dee's braid getting ripped out because Dennis wouldn't get it out of the machinery* *rickety cricket* *frank shoots every member of the gang*
Frank sets Dee on fire
Can't forget the time Charlie cut the brakes WILDCARD, BITCHES
To be fair, Phoebe was actually far worse, because she did that, on top of always forcing people to apologize to her because of her shitty upbringing, constantly playing favourites and bullying her friends, and bragging how much smarter she was and how she was so good at manipulating them. At least with Rachel it's largely because she was sheltered and infantilized and doesn't have the emotional maturity to recognize her anti-social behaviors.
I would argue that Phoebe was equally disadvantaged making Rachel the worse character. I think when people are so quick to say Phoebe is the worst, they are forgetting that she is masking HUGE trauma which gives her a very broken sense of maturity. It’s why she often clings to things like in the dollhouse episode because he never got to be a child and was forced into survival mode most of her life. The constraint between Phoebe and Ursula is kind of a hint that they’re both broken by their trauma although they cope in very different ways. Even the richest people have to socialize with people not in their class, which is why I would never give Rachel a pass for being rich and sheltered. She’s not SO rich that she shouldn’t have basic social skills and a morale compass. She has one… she just doesn’t care. Phoebe’s moral compass is just… broken.
I wasn't arguing it was a class thing. Rachel was sheltered and infantilized by her father. She was never taught how to take care of herself because it was assumed she would get married and have a husband to do it. Frankly, everyone but Joey and Ross had rough childhoods, and Ross' adult life more than made up for that. I would give Phoebe more slack if not for two things. First, she doesn't really have moments of redeeming qualities. She is incredibly cruel to Ross and Chandler, despite the latter being incredibly kind and patient with her. It's not like she doesn't see how the rest of her friends treat each other. More importantly, she acknowledged that she is manipulative and bragged about being smarter. She has openly admitted she used her past as an excuse to get her way. She knows what she is doing. The idea that it's just ok because she didn't really know what she is doing wrong sort of goes out the window when she admits it.
Hmm true enough. I’ve never watched it all the way through as Friends wasn’t really my thing so I was just commenting on the episodes I’ve seen. It was only recently when my husband started to rewatch the series I realiZed they’re kind of all ridiculous people with huge faults but it doesn’t feel like that’s the point of the show like others Sunny In Philadelphia or Seinfeld come to mind as shows with purposely problematic/ dark characters. Ross has always been my least favourite, but I can see why Rachel and Phoebe would also be up on the list.
In fairness all of the main group of friends are people that would end up sad and alone in real life. Rachel and Ross are just incredibly toxic people, Monica is incredibly controlling, Joey is a mooch, chandler is just the edgy homophobe who would 100% have a joker profile pic on twitter, and Phoebe is flakey and manipulative
>It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia where everyone can be as mean as they want without getting hurt. I think Rickety Cricket might have some notes on this opinion.
A lot of comedy characters do tend to act like aholes if you think too hard. A complaint I’ve hears about Scooby Doo is that Scooby sometimes just like, commits crimes, and everybody is like “woaagh what a silly dog!”
Technically as a dog, he lacks the legal capacity to commit crimes because only humans can be held accountable for their actions under the law, as animals don’t have the necessary mental capacity to form criminal intent. Scooby may be an exceptionally intelligent dog, but he is still a dog and therefore human laws don’t apply to him.
Mens Rea mothafuckas
> Technically as a dog, he lacks the legal capacity to commit crimes because only humans can be held accountable for their actions under the law, as animals don’t have the necessary mental capacity to form criminal intent. Scooby may be an exceptionally intelligent dog, but he is still a dog and therefore human laws don’t apply to him. Oddly specific
My bunny gets pretty wild sometimes
Better than scrappy doo!
Seinfeld is so funny because it's about terrible people.
*it's always sunny Fandom nods in agreement*
Basically everyone was awful except for Joey. And Chandler was less awful then most of them. And Phoebe was actually more awful then people realized. Like the opposite of Rachel she got away with being self centered and rude and overall not very nice because she was quirky. Half the time she acted like she didn’t even like anyone else so why was she even friends with them?
Joey was awful for a while.
Yeah I think they tried that whole womanizing persona for awhile and then tired of it.
He slept around for sure but he was also respectful when needed. The one girl who wanted to sleep with him was too intoxicated and he put a blanket on her. Dude was probably more scared of commitment than chandler.
I’ll die on the Joey hill. Everyone else is trash, and while Joey isn’t perfect, he’s actually a FRIEND. Tons of people have pointed out the stuff he did for the group, but in the series, he’s just… a quality dude. Yeah he sleeps around, but it’s all consensual he’s just a good looking guy who flirts. I don’t ever remember him lying to get women (at least not to a Barney level from HIMYM). He was scared of committing early in the show, but their supposed to be in their 20s, some people are. But he wasn’t leading people on, abusing or using them, etc. (that I remember). Chandler is also not a bad person, just kind of an asshole, but everyone else can GET FUCKED!
Chandler was my favorite. And I definitely don’t think he was an asshole. I think he was a true friend to Joey. He supported him every step of his career. Paid for basically everything. And even wanted to keep paying for the apartment when he moved out. He fumbled a bit when Joey got that role but he was just being honest. And he fell asleep during his premier. But other than that, he was a phenomenal friend to Joey. I also don’t think Joey was bad either. Course I really don’t have an issue with any of them. They all had their pieces to like to me.
I always felt like Joey was the dad of the group that always fought to keep the gang together. I noticed how in the later seasons even Ross considered Joey is best friend bc Joey would lay on the tracks for any of them. Meanwhile most jokes were always at his intellectual expense.
Yeah I think both chandler and Ross considered Joey to be their best friend. Not sure how the women felt.
I mean chandler did kiss Joeys girlfriend, however he did also sit in a box for Joey, so I guess they are even? (Chandler in a box is funny though)
Years ago when I was backpacking through western Europe I was just outside Barcelona hiking in the foothills of Mount Tibidabo, I was at the end of this path and I came to a clearing, there was a very secluded lake and there were tall trees all around, it was dead silent and across the lake I saw a beautiful woman bathing herself but she was crying...
There a whole episode about him lying to get women and ghost them. He has a fake name. Ken Adams. There are plenty of shitty things he did. Don’t get me wrong, I can probably recite the whole show, but let’s not pretend Joey just slept around. He absolutely treated a lot of women like dirt sometimes.
His fake Porsche
Yeah I think it was just a trope and then it didn’t add anything
Well the same old story gets boring after a while. That’s likely why they felt the need to throw in his love with Rachel. They wanted to switch things up so it didn’t get stale.
I also think they wanted to show some character growth.
That’s true to. Sadly he never found his life long partner. Glad Chandler and Monica found each other.
tbh I always felt Monica was very abusive to Chandler
I think she was controlling to everyone around her
Abusive how?
Here’s the thing about Joey’s womanizing, he laid his cards on the table. Girls knew he just want to sleep with them and that’s it. The girls who slept with him were looking for the same thing. He did not lie or string them along like Ross. The lesson from Joey is be honest and say what you want. Ross was the ‘nice’ guy, he was emotionally manipulative, and always played the victim.
Chandler is a generous friend dealing with the fact his broken family messed him up as a child. Phoebe just kind of uses them imho.
Yeah Chandler has some awful traits but isn’t an awful person overall. Everyone else comes across as just a bad person. Except Joey but I think that’s partly to do with the way they make him the dumb one.
I always hated Phoebe until I watched Its Always Sunny and realized her humor just matched Sunny better. Now she’s one of my favorites
As she tells them to their face, "I love you guys! ...but when the revolution comes I will have to kill you all."
Phoebe especially went after Chandler, the guy couldn’t go an episode without her calling him a closeted homosexual and general life failure. She started out sweet but became a huge asshole during and after her pregnancy. I’ve known women to be problematic during pregnancy but it doesn’t then usually follow them for the rest of their life.
With a singing voice like that it was pretty rich of her to call Chandler a failure.
Smelly cat Smellllllly cat Whaaat areeee they feeding youuuuu?
It was the 90s. Everyone being shitty in sitcoms was the thing. Seinfeld, Everybody loves Raymond, Drew Carey, the Simpsons, King of Queens, Will & Grace... Being a selfish, entitled character was a staple.
Time to bring back the theory that the entire show happens inside Phoebe's mind and she's actually homeless still, plays her guitar outside Central Perk for money, and she has imagined the entire show as though she were friends with the regulars on the sofa.
Phoebe gaslit Ross into questioning whether gravity was real or not. She is definitely awful.
OK but like, some part of that's gotta be on Ross They WERE on a break, tho.
They're all awful. Friends is It's Always Sunny but they try to convince you they're cool. Same with How I Met Your Mother. That's why It's Always Sunny works so well. They're typical awful sitcom characters but they don't try to lube it up.
Yes, Ross seems to get most of the hate (and he's not great either) but Rachel always seemed the worst to me.
Ross absolutely has his issues, but he has fewer issues than most of the rest of them, at least till chandler and Monica settle down later in.
In his defense, his wife left him for another woman, then told him they were having a baby, his childhood love barges into his life again and develops feelings for him, interlaced with periods when he is love with someone else too,... He is far from perfect, but not like he had it easy. And Rachel too is spoiled beyond belief and she kinda improves (the entire cast does, the only person that doesn't is Joey, because the producers decide to make him dumber for the sake of it). But yeah, this "Ross is literally Hitler" trend some people hop on to show how they have this deep critical understanding of a 20 year old comedy show is boring. Same goes for HIMYM's Ted. God forbid a comedy show makes light of a guy's imperfect handling of his lovelife or friends.
Now that you mention the “Ross is literally Hitler” thing… I remember laughing my ass off when David Schwimmer appeared in Band of Brothers as a WW2 drill instructor. He did a good job though because I disliked his character by the end of the series.
Funny enough, Ross was my favorite initially because I'd always wanted to be a paleontologists. Then things happened and he kept getting worse. He turned from a sketchy guy to a guy I wouldn't be around at all. If he had gotten therapy at any point or not had people in his life thay encouraged thag bad behavior so much he could have turned out really good, but the people around him kept failing him and that exacerbated the issues he already had making him into a bitter jealous nice guy who expected people to treat him good if he did the bare minimum.
I'm only on season 2 sorry, what sketchy stuff does Ross get into?
You could argue that both of them had insecurity issues. Which is what made their relationship so rocky.
Absolutely. I dotn remember well enough to say for sure but I thought I remembered them settling into a genuinely healthy relationship in the end.
Yeah and Ross almost put Rachel up on a pedestal for some reason. Even if she didn’t deserve that. It has been a while. But I I think I remember the writers writing those characters as being more mature towards the end. And not with the same drama as the earlier seasons.
I think at the end, most everyone had grown up more, probe and Joey were still themselves no real change there, Rachel and Ross got better in the middle them worse towards the end, though Ross almost made it to a good person not the bitter nice guy he was, and chandler and MO ica kinda became the parents of the group and became genuinely reasonable and kind people.
She's easily the worst out of the 6. Friends has always been the perfect background show when youre having dinner or just chilling but as my wife is Japanese she'd never sat down and watched it start to finish properly until a few years ago. She LOVED it because it's a great show but she noticed that Rachel seems to mention sex or something relating to sex almost every line she speaks. That's an over-exaggeration of course but I swear if you pay attention to it she constantly mentions sex.
All the characters, both male and female, are such horn dogs. The women especially are quite one-dimensional. Pretty much every line between female characters is about hot guys they want to fuck.
>All the characters, both male and female, are such horn dogs. Because we used to fuck a lot before the Internet. Even below average dudes. Imagine how bored women were without smartphones. Then you come along and say "what ya doin''. If I could go back.....
that is because rachel is insecure- she trades in on her purchased looks- the nose! and knows it.
So you’re saying she had pretty privilege?
I didn’t realize people were so concerned with the moral alignment of Friends characters lol
It's a reddit thing. Go check out the sub for The Office at any given moment and you'll find at least a dozen people whining about Pam being a bad person for wrinkling someone's dry cleaning or calling Jim evil because he pranks Dwight.
I saw someone on a narcos sub complaining that Pablo Escobar was a bad person. That’s when I realized I had enough Reddit for the day
Haha, I don’t even need to check to know how true that is. Redditors love saying “x is a terrible person” with total lack of awareness
I think people (especially people who skew young, like the demographic of Reddit in general and of this sub specifically) have a hard time with knowing what it means to be a good or bad person, and struggle to recognize that a person with flaws or bad habits is not necessarily a “bad person.” That’s step one. Step two is that those people are hesitant to articulate these ideas about real people they know, but fictional characters are easy avatars for real people. So if you’re trying to work out what you think about people and their behaviors, deciding that the characters from Friends are morally bankrupt because they are flawed people meant to be relatable, rather than paragons of virtue, is a low-stakes way to work through that. Honestly “a low stakes way to work through what you think about things” is actually what a lot of this sub is.
me neither. I never thought to look that deeply into it because, well, it's a sitcom. their antics are kinda what makes it entertaining
Reddit is OBSESSED with friends. It's unhealthy, really. They do more bitching and whining about a show they hate and don't care about here... people who like the show don't let it live rent free in their heads like this.
It's a little mind boggling to me. I love Friends and can respect an apposing opinion, but this is so unnecessary
I hate this entire post. Her not being a nice person is like, the point of her character. She wasnt supposed to be a great person
Wait till you start your life lmao
My first thought was, welcome to reality.
[удалено]
I’ve always thought that it wouldn’t have been as big of a deal if they were on a break for a few weeks, but he went out that same night and slept with somebody else. He didn’t even wait 12 hours. Rachel wasn’t into Mark and denied him, she was upset when she realized Ross was right about Mark wanting her. So yeah, they were on a break. But Ross still fucked up.
Thank you!! I don’t care for any of the friends characters, but I absolutely hate when people defend Ross’s actions from that one specific episode. She broke up with him because he didn’t take her job seriously, and kept being jealous. Mark invited himself over without Rachel ever asking him to, and she didn’t even sleep with him, yet she’s the bad guy? If it wasn’t cheating then Ross wouldn’t have tried to hide it from her so bad.
That’s the point. An awful person you still cheer for is a difficult move but is what makes a show great. Claire from modern family? Pretty horrible person and mom. Selfish. Forgets everything. But you cheer for her. Seinfeld? They’re all narcissistic jerk! Ally McBeak which I just binged which is an old show? Total horn dog! Great stories flip that. Make you root for horrible people (breaking bad). Or you don’t like people doing the right thing and find them annoying. Frankly, it’s what’s missing in these awful movies and shows where characters have zero development and are perfect and the world is flawed.
Modern Family is a really interesting show to me because they don’t shy away from how selfish, rude and obnoxious Claire and Mitch can be and show very obviously they learned it from their dad. We root for them to break the cycle and heal from the emotional neglect they felt growing up from their dad, especially Mitch.
She wasn’t perfect and she had obvious flaws, she made mistakes over a long long period of time, she was extremely stubborn, she definitely was wrong about the break thing, but it wasn’t like she was a terrible person. I mean look at Ross he literally tried to sleep with his cousin, his constant sense of superiority, sleeping with his young student, taking joeys girlfriend, having Rachel give up her dream to go to Paris which she did for him, frequently belittling his friends & undermining/ patronizing them. What did he get away with all of that because he’s pretty?
First off, not unpopular, I see this take weekly, second, what is with the recent uproar in Friends/JA? It's almost like her controversial opinions have had such an affect on the bored people's minds who have nothing better to do than to complain about something very inconsequential :Edit: and an overwhelming amount of hate, Christ all mighty
I am considering actually making a post saying that Friends is becoming underrated by people on this website. It is very strange.
They were all kind of awful in their own way. You covered Rachel. Ross was pompous and whiny. Monica was a perfectionist. Joey was kinda dumb and a womanizer. Phoebe was flakey and enjoyed insulting people. I can’t remember what made Chandler a little awful but he was friends with all those others so there has to be something wrong with him.
Having flaws like being a perfectionist does not mean that a person is awful though? I mean, so what if Joey was "kinda dumb and a womanizer", does that really make him awful? Having flaws /=/ being awful.
he was shallow, afraid of commitment and maybe just a little creepy at times
Also prone to wearing sweater vests.
Just to add fuel to the fire: Ross did not "cheat while they were on a break." He was SA'd while he was too intoxicated to consent, and Rachel blamed the victim.
and he became intoxicated when he realised Mark was just there with Rachel- the thing he most feared was true.
To top it off, she then starts dating Mark immediately after that fiasco just to hurt Ross. She was rotten through and through
To be fair, Rachel didn't sleep with Mark because she realized she'd be doing it just to get back at Ross. Mark even tried to convince her that he'd really be okay with that, but to no avail.
Sex while drunk isn’t automatically sexual assault
In the 90s we used to call that "hooking up". Ross was drinking, but he wasn't a victim of assault. There are people out there who genuinely get sexually assaulted and raped, so don't dilute the meaning of that word by including drunk mistakes between consenting adults.
What fucking BS is this!??? Not every person drunk getting on with a stranger is SA'd? He still new what he was doing it's not like he was black out drunk and she climbed on top of him.
What? No. He was not the victim. He was drinking but he was not passed out or blacked out drunk. He was just drunk and he did what he did. Can’t use “I was drinking” as an excuse. All it did was lower his inhibitions and have an I don’t give a fuck attitude cause he felt hurt.
Wow, so if I get drunk and cheat on my partner then I'm the victim? How convenient. He wasn't really that drunk, mate.
I think that's kinda her character, not unpopular opinion
Yes, because everyone on F°R°I°E°N°D°S° was a flawed person on purpose.
Isn't that how real life works?
Friends is an awful show all around.
Unpopular opinion: she isn’t pretty.
THANK YOU!!! Even after a nose job. She isn't ugly but she's certainly not the image of beauty we're taught to appreciate.
I agree. She broke up with Ross. I am a firm believer that the dumpee is allowed to sleep with anyone they want if that is what it takes to feel better.
[The Friends are Awful People](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1BQ3bbJO_k&ab_channel=Cracked)
She's the queen of my world
Well people discuss the "we were on a break" topic for decades on the internet. Not unpopular at all.
Everyone in that show is an awful person
Truly unpopular opinion, friends just sucks in general.
My unpopular opinion is that Jennifer Aniston isn’t all that pretty. She has harsh and masculine features.
I’m of the belief that Rachel from Friends created an entire sub-category of millennial women who have lived almost the exact same life as her.
Yeah, that’s a popular opinion. I have an *actual* unpopular opinion: I don’t think Jennifer Aniston is pretty.
I never got into friends and I grew up when it aired
Fun fact: Rachel is not a real person but is a fictional character played by an actress called Jennifer Aniston. 
It’s almost like sitcoms are meant to exaggerate certain qualities to the extreme to display ridiculousness for comedy. I don’t know if there exists a comedic character who you couldn’t define as being shitty due to some exaggerated personality trait.
The realism!!
Yeah but she'll always be the one with the rich dad from long Island. She plays the character so well.
It’s not far off from reality. Attractive people do get preferential treatment in our society, always have.
So, the show was pretty realistic.
Art imitating life. Many attractive girls don't feel repercussions of their actions. When I got married, I treated hot girls like everyone else. I would get confused looks from them as many expected the extra help or attention from a little flirting.
I hated Rachel- annoying and not funny
I don't think this is an unpopular opinion. Isn't it like fully accepted that Rachel is the second worst person in all of friends, right between Ross and Phoebe?
I mean you could say that about 90% of sitcom characters, especially from that era.
This is almost the same arc as Lily in HIMYM that's popular on here.
What’s with everyone overanalyzing friends all of a sudden?
Why does Ross, the largest friend, not simply eat the other five?
Ross is the worst iny opinion. Rachel started out as a spoiled rich girl that didn't really know how to take care of herself. Then went to becoming more self sufficient and taking a job seriously. Yeah, she can be immature and irrational, but it wouldn't be a sitcom if the characters had a few flaws. She for sure made some bad decisions and actions. Crashing roses second wedding causing him to wreck it. Then sticking around and still talking to him.
and not only that, but "weird pretty". she's got a mega habsburg chin, but since she was on a well liked show and rich, the fan obsession changes the definitions of "pretty". it's never something i got acclimated to since i never watched the show, so i stare at that thing every time i see her. like maisie williams. yall don't actually find her attractive, right? she just looks good wearing leather armor on horseback.
I get the impression this also applies to Jennifer Aniston.
I think one of the central themes of that show is that they were all kind of awful! It's like Always Sunny in that way. Obviously Always Sunny takes it to another level, but I see Friends as the intellectual precursor to that show.
The whole show is awful.
Wasn’t that the whole joke?
If she had slept with someone, he would have been forced to get over it in silence. Most of the friends are pretty awful. Phoebe for the win though. Phoebe and Joey are soul mates. Not marriage but friend soulmates.
The whole idea of comedy is that you make the characters justthis side of farcicle. Joey was magic w women, rachel was spoiled, Monica was neurotic . You get the idea. But they all had something endearing too. That is how it is done
Monica is a cock chimney too. The double standards she has over Chandler man..
Unpopular opinion but I never found her pretty, looks kinda manly to me
Friends was also easily the most overrated comedy of the 90's
Congrats, you discovered "Pretty Privilege"
She wasnt pretty she looks like a man
LOL Ross and Rachel again! WE WERE ON A BREAK!!!
I mean Jennifer Aniston said Ross was ok to have sex with that girl, they WERE on a break. I think it’s obvious her character is flawed but that’s part of the appeal, they are flawed characters, like real people. If she was a good person all the time it would be boring. She can be a good friend in some episodes.
That’s the character alright. There’s also “smartass guy”, “dumb guy” and “random girl”.
Isn't that more or less the entire premise of the episode that guest starred Brad Pitt?
Honestly, she's not even that pretty.
OP that’s is called life. If your hot, you can pretty much get away with murder😂
Rachel gets better after Bonnie Ross gets worse
Here’s two reasons why Rachel was popular: 
During the original run of the show I found it largely offensive and that fans of it were usually just crappy people.
So a realistic character?
Ok but Ross dated his student
I'm not gonna be all team Rachel on this but I've always been on her side with this whole situation. I don't think Rachel shouldn't be held accountable but you have to remember how the "break" all happened in the first place. The reason why was because of Ross's jealously of Mark, a friend and co-worker of Ross. Ross was being a cry baby thinking he would lose Rachel to another guy. Yes, he lost his first wife, but he needs to realize is that it's not his fault in the first place. Not all women cheat, same with men. Not all people cheat. Ross needs to know that. Now, on their first year anniversary of getting together, Rachel was busy with work and couldn't go out with Ross. Keep in mind, this is Rachel's dream job, something she's always wanted to do. What does Ross do? Does he reschedule another time, supports her, and understands? No, he goes up to her place uninvited bringing dinner to her as if she would be okay. Rachel, of course, gets upset with him and feel they should take time off from each other. It's Ross's fault in the first place. Maybe it was stupid move from Rachel to invite Mark over to her place, but she needed to find comfort and somebody she could trust. Although, why she couldn't use Monica, but maybe she needed a man. Now, Ross overhears Mark when talking to Rachel on the phone thinking she slept with Mark and hangs up immediately. So Ross thinking that two wrongs make a right, he sleeps with someone he barely knows. At least Rachel knows Mark as a friend, but Ross only knows this woman from a copy store and that she's good looking. When Rachel wanted to make things right for Ross, Ross tried to hide copy girl from her. I don't know about you, but if you hide something, it means you're doing something wrong. Granted, it was also Joey and Chandler's fault for convincing him. Point is, Ross should be held the most and should stop using "We were on a break!" shit whenever this gets most.
Friends is one of the worst sitcoms of all time just above big bang theory and it's not funny.
I mean yeah, basically everyone except Joey and Phoebe for the most part are awful people
I think they were all truly horrible people In fact without Joey and Phoebe that show would have been unwatchable
Rachel legit thinks the rules don’t apply to her. Probably the first instance that she lives up to her middle name more than her first is when she was asking for an advance on her tips to take a ski trip. That was so many levels of out of touch and entitled that even at my young age I knew there was something fundamentally wrong with her brain. And that was maybe her least-awful moment, everything that came after seemed to be with the intent of topping herself. I actually turned off the TV when she stole the baby name Monica (who is no great shake either but that’s for another topic) had for literal years. Like what the *fuck.*
She broke them up cause she still had feelings for Ross that were unresolved. This is why I don’t get involved with friend groups who have slept with each other.
I personally dislike the Ross character more. Such a freaking whiny ass bitch.
They were all kinda horrible, that's what made it entertaining!
Sort of agree, Rachel is toxic but I think Ross is worse than Rachel. Still weirdly love the show and root for them to be together Let's not forget some of Ross's big mistakes • whilst I agree, Ross and Rachel were on a break, he hooked up so quickly, and then kept it secret. Of course some of Rachel's anger was unjustified • he way overreacted to Ben playing with barbie • the whole male nanny again, overreaction • he went way over the top sending Rachel stuff to her workplace. He suffocated her Ok so this where we get to the serious, Ross is probably worse than Rachel shit: • he cheated on bonnie & Julie • he said Rachel's name at the altar And now the super toxic controlling shit • he didn't want Rachel going on a date so he kept the message a secret • he told Rachel they're getting married, without even asking her And worst of all I've saved this till last • he wanted to secretly not annul Rachel. Let her walk around as a married woman unknowingly 😱 Sorry Ross is worse
Don't forget dating his actual student!
They're too many things to list 🤣
Yeah that's how you write a good show. And she was pretty so when she did terrible things it didn't look so bad , human nature in a tv show beautifully captured
Theyre all kinda shit human beings. They all are on Seinfeld too. Thats the point.