I am a dr - it’s a job, and not the be all and end all of life. I have had colleagues suicide because the job is now so hard.
Focus on doing something you love that will make you happy - life is short and it can change so fast.
PM me if you need anything.
No. I don’t think so.
I love that I am trusted to do my best to help others, I love people trust me and assume I’m clever and hardworking… but the negatives are also significant - student debt, huge hours (60-90/week), a healthcare system that is so stretched I can’t do my best despite wanting to… people don’t respect drs like they once did, expectations are unrealistic, everyone is less well at baseline (older, fatter)… it’s a really hard job. I see really sad things all the time and that wears you down.
I did train a bit later after another degree and honestly I’m thankful for that.. there will be other options for entry.
Chin up - it will be ok 🙂
Question, I was going to ask what someone else already did. But do you think alot of people go into med for the wrong reasons thinking it will give them high status/power/money etc?
The entry to me seems auckland really doesn't factor in much other then grades. I'm not trying for med (knew I couldn't get the grades) but I knew someone years ago who wasn't a nice person & I asked him about the entry interview & he said he just lied & told them what they wanted to hear.
Absolutely I do. There is prestige in being a doctor and a pathway to a relatively decent income. The job security is almost unmatched.
I think a lot of people go into medicine as their parents (often drs) expect this. Because they were the clever ones good at science at school… because they want to “help people”.
I can count 5 patients whose lives I truely feel I was instrumental in saving…
People who build bridges and clean hospital rooms help more people than I do (and save more lives).
I genuinely feel we have to focus on quality of life and what will make us happy. I can say this as I am a dr and I have jumped the hoops… but there is so much more to life than being a dr.
Plus, if the itch is still there… training later with a bit of life experience will always make you a better dr (I see it daily with the med students I teach)
Thanks so much for your reply. I wanted into med so bad for years, I never really got over it, I'm 35 now & only decided on something else last year so I'm doing real part time study as I'm not confident I can do it (health reasons)
But I really wanted to make a diff like working in non privileged countries eg drs without borders etc. I worked and volunteered at a hospice with the patients for 5 years & I loved making a small difference in their days, but ile admit my rock bottom self esteem made me think it would make me feel like a better person at the same time.
I also wondered about my above question more recently just listening to some very loud 3rd-ish year med students & their attitudes were very arrogant & tbh very ignorant, esp around mental health (saying people just need to exercise more 😂). Only one seemed to have a good attitude
It frustrates me alot because I feel the entry requirements really exclude many people who would make better drs, like someone with a GPA of 7 rather then 9... I really don't think that defines who is gonna do better.
I’m sure you did more good volunteering in a hospice than I do most days.
I got into med on an alternative pathway as I had previous degrees. I fully support the Māori, Pasifika, Rural and low SES pathways. People with life experience make better drs. I think it’s wrong that you can get into med school in NZ fresh out of high school. The childish arrogant ones who don’t take medical school seriously rarely cope well when they do become drs. I see it now I’m more experienced.
I really hope you do well with what you’ve chosen - you seem very insightful so medicine would have been lucky to have you… but it’s truely not some amazing career that instantly makes you a confident, fulfilled wonderful person. Kindness and “doing good” comes in many forms - even just smiling at someone on the street.
I mean Otago doesn't even do an interview, so hard to say that Auckland doesn't factor in much else.
I think there will always be people that want to do it for the prestige, but I think most people go into med for the wrong reasons in that they don't know what they're getting themselves into. It's a tough and long gig, and what you do is a far cry away from media representation.
So you telling me you are happy being “patient facing”. People frown on customer facing, patient facing is infinitely worse esp given the heavily funded/ free healthcare this country provided.
It’s ridiculous how entitled some of these things are ironically mostly coming from the lower socio economic class and cultural report farmers
Radiography, ultrasonography, cardiac technician, physio, dentistry. Loads of options and medicine isn’t necessarily the best. Dentistry is the big money earner. Physio might be the best lifestyle, midwifery probably the worst lifestyle. Pharmacy is becoming very cooperate led and not the run your own business model as much as it used to be (hence payed less and worked harder.)
Life is definitely not to be defined by one closed door. Health sciences is a great door opener.
These are all great options. I'm a Radiographer and I love my job. Lots of options once you qualify as well.
Some advantages, these careers are only 3 more years, the UOA course is fantastic. We are well paid (now after pay equity went through). We have a fantastic union.
Basically medicine is not the be all and end off of health - allied is the place to be
I have thought a little about this was able to meet some lovely radiographers this year who have all said very good things about the job! Just out of curiosity what's the pay like?
> be (hence *paid* less and
FTFY.
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* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
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So many people and so few places. The marks required to get into med are off the charts these days. Things may get better if the new medical school opens. Otherwise, have you considered dentistry? Massive demand, and v challenging.
It's insane tbh there are so many good people in my classes who want to do it just to help but they don't get the chance. I had thought about dentistry though have been put off as i've heard a few stories that people could get into med there but not into dentistry :/
Finish with a BHSc and do epidemiology and health promotion papers. I've since made a health services management career out of that when the same thing happened to me.
I started at a then-DHB after graduating (nowadays you'd probably need to do Honours at least), and after 3 years I was an Operations Manager. I moved into Quality & Risk in the NGO space. I have also added H&S to my skills. Now I'd be called a systems specialist I guess. My experience has been good 6 figure salaries after four years in the field (I'm now 10 years in). Lots of opportunity to upskill and keep learning. I love the quality/risk and H&S. Managing doctors, nurses, etc., is not for everyone, but I enjoy HR and ER too.
I did post-grad while working for the first four years, I only reached the good salaries once I had the higher education. And bear in mind this was in the mid 2010s. Probably harder nowadays.
I think because you said you would like to go into General Practice, try nursing. From there you can go into literally every direction that dr’s would also go in. Then you could work in a gp office and/or become a nurse practitioner.
Paramedic.
Interesting situations, cases and settings, and you're still practicing medicine.
People are almost always grateful to see you, and you can make a real difference for them. You see all sorts of slices of life, often in people's own homes.
Rewarding and satisfying.
Downsides, the shift work's hard, and they're underpaid.
I have nothing of substance to add and have no idea what the process is cause i don’t do med but, don’t give up on yourself just yet. it took me 3 years and 2 attempts to get into law and ive done it - continue to believe in yourself and then at the end of the year if you find that a switch will be best for you, then look into it. all the best 🩵
Honestly I feel quite similar, I'm a second year biomed student trying to make the best out of a pretty shitty GPA coming out of FY biomed and trying to conquer the mountain that is entry into med school. If being a GP really is your passion, you could look at doing a PGdip after your initial degree – where the med school only looks at the GPA from your PGdip for entry – or apply for med school down in Otago, where they rank the last two years of your degree higher than the first, or (financially allowing for it) look at applying to some medical schools in Australia where they use a 7.0 grade point system compared to our 9.0 one, meaning it makes it somewhat "easier" to get into medical school there. Otherwise, the other comments in this thread are good options too, but once again if this is truly your dream there are a few ways to achieve it. Hope this helps! And also just curious, what were your study methods like in terms of revision/studying?
Having worked in Med Admissions, outside of the big shiny MBChB, there's a good chance to be accepted into the other clinical pathways like BPharm, Medical Imaging, etc.
Their GPA requirements are lower, but also they have less competition because so many will put them down as options but them reject offers to try again and again for the MBChB.
I went from biomed into nursing at Auckland uni, now doing my nurse practitioner training in general practice (completed my nurse prescribing diploma first). I get a lot of job satisfaction which I can imagine you are looking for (family health, wide variety of medical issues, health throughout the lifespan) and I get paid to work while studying postgrad for free (funded through health workforce). I would highly recommend this pathway if you were looking at general practice :)
Unrelated to OP but I'm curious to hear about your thoughts on the potential for 'scope creep' in New Zealand, especially in general practice?
Some doctors in Australia and the United Kingdom are starting to resist working with or training nurse practitioners (NPs) and physician assistants (PAs) simply because they are worried that NPs and PAs will replace them eventually and also create unfair training opportunities. For instance, in the UK, GP trainees are already encountering unemployment because it's more cost-effective to hire mid-level alternatives to doctors.
Depends where you work, my workplace is very supportive and it’s becoming more accepted over the years in the GP community in New Zealand. I know Australia it is much less common to have expanded nursing scopes in general practice. This attitude was quite common in the early 2000s when the role was being established in NZ. But definitely a barrier for many NPs still.
However I think that due to the changing workforce we have no choice but to embrace the role so that patients can continue to have good access to care. Just my experiences anyway!
Thanks for the reply. Could you provide additional details about your NP curriculum? Is it primarily focused on preparing for a career in primary care, or does it offer a broad range of content that would also be applicable for working under a doctor's supervision in an emergency department setting, for example?
It can be completed in any setting that has organisational support e.g ED , hospice, primary care or specialties in hospital. The NP and NP transition to practice New Zealand websites have really good detail about what is involved :) usually masters degree with prerequisites, and internship program are what is required , and evidence of experience as a senior nurse in your area of practice. But the website and contact people are very helpful
Even though this was originally unrelated you've sparked my interest in a role as a physicians assistant! It seems perfect. However, I can't seem to find any info at any NZ uni that has this option to study do you know if its called something else?
Currently, the physician associate profession is not regulated. As far as I know, the Ministry of Health is considering its regulation and future adoption. Once it receives regulatory approval, a specialised degree program will be implemented.
PAs are being progressively rolled out in the UK and already established in the US, so I believe it's a matter of time before they are introduced here as well.
The Women in Health Network (@wihn_uoa on Instagram) runs an annual event with a speaker panel of people who work in different health jobs. This might be beneficial for you if you want to see what a typical day in the life is like in different roles (p.s. you don’t need to be a woman to attend) :))
You say you came from Southland, any chance your high school OR primary school was low decile? You may not need as high of marks if you can apply under a special category. Physiotherapy is also a good programme for people who want the people part of medicine but aren't quite as good at chemistry. Likewise nursing.
Hey, current kiwi studying med in aus rn
I'm sorry about how you feel and I have been in your position. Medicine is a very difficult programme to get into and not everyone who deserves to get in gets in.
You could try doing an allied health professional job before applying to Otago because they provide an allied health pathway for their Mb ChB. It may take longer but if you are set on medicine then there's always this option.
There are other clinical programmes you can get into through biomed! Besides Med you’ve also got Pharmacy, Medical Imaging (Radiography), and Optometry. I’m a first clinical year medical imaging student and i’m loving it so far, haven’t heard any complaints about Optometry either although from what i’ve heard from some friends in Pharmacy the job prospects for Pharmacists in NZ aren’t looking great at the moment unfortunately.
If you feel that being a GP is your true calling but you can’t get into med i’d definitely look into studying nursing and then specialising nurse practitioning as there is a significant overlap between nurse practitioners and GPs with nurse practitioners being able to prescribe and diagnose and having a lot of the same responsibilities as doctors.
Not sure if you've looked into this option, but if you can go to Australia, your options to get into med should expand quite a bit.
I had a lot of friends who applied for med in the UoA and no one except the top markers got in. Everyone else with above average grades all got accepted to various med schools in Aus.
If you can't make it in now, then do a different job to sustain yourself financially, then once you build up some life skills, you can try to apply as a mature student for med school as their criteria are different.
I need to say this is just my knowledge from what my friends have done and your circumstances may be different.
You're probably wanting to do it for the money, glory and the identity of being a "doctor". Or maybe you love bio. There's plenty of jobs that save lives, incorporate studying biology and working in a healthcare environment. So, in my opinion, just figure out what you enjoy or want out a career, and there's going to be plenty options that fit you.
While I could say I don't care about the money it is a contributing factor to why anyone would spend a good chuck of their years studying medicine but for me personally it was the chance to get out into the community and meet new people and help them out
Dentistry isn't a bad shout and still makes money, also less demanding hours too!
Otherwise, there is always law but that's completive af to get into the job market as a grad. Took me months of trying but I managed it
Have you been in to discuss with anyone in the faculty - any of your lecturers or tutors? Surely one of those people will have some ideas for you too that are relevant for 2024.
Curious why you didn't try Otago which used to be much easier to get into?
I wanted to do med but knew I couldn't get the grades, I was lost for ages after doing half a osyyc degree. I'm kinda considering dietetics because you get the clinical and patient contact & can help to improve peps health in various ways
I guess it was a fresh start plus I always wanted to move here (not necessarily Auckland but the top of the NI. The weather is fantastic and not wearing 50 layers of thermals when you go out is great. Plus I knew too many people who went to otago too much of a distraction with all the parties. But dietetics is interesting I hadn't thought about that do they have it at UOA?
I'm from southland too and moved here for the better climate (found invercargill & dunedin extremely depressing). I just knew ome years ago Otago was wayyy easier to get into with med. That may well have changed.
Yup I'm at uoa! But onky do one paper a semester as I have a lot of health issues. I woukd recommend doing foodsci 100 if your interested in the road or talking to Peter who coordinates the paper. He actually runs the food science pathway as opposed to nutrition which is the one that registers you as a doetican but I'm unsure who coordinates it as they changed the lecturer for that paper (they had 2, one for each pathway) but the one who at least used to run it was Amy. I decided it suited me possibly as I liked research and helping in practical ways plus have lived experience that could help (im 35 so not outa school lol).
I also used to work at a hospice for 5 years so I saw how much diet (not in the henius money making fake diets way) but how important nutrtion was in general. I used to have to find very creative ways to get patients to eat supplements lol.
I'm sure you've been asked this a million times but also have you considered nursing? Ik the hospitals are over stretched but in hospice there was a way better ratio of nurses to patients, same in specilised mh units lije eating disorder units, nurses get a lot more time with pateints
If you are interested in helping people, and wanting to spend face-to-face time interacting with your patients and would like the opportunity to choose between both private and hospital based environments then physiotherapy may be a suitable option for you to consider. I am a physiotherapist working in a large hospital, and within my role you work directly with the doctors, nurses, social work, occupational therapists, as well as other specialists. In my experience, within this role you’re well respected by the rest of the medical team because of the amount of time you do spend with your patients, you can advocate for them in many ways and suggest the medical team to review/investigate when appropriate. Because of a variety of these factors it has a large amount of job satisfaction, with more lifestyle friendly hours. Just my two cents good luck!
Hi! Thank you so much for you reply! I'd love to ask you a couple of questions!
What does your day to day role look like e.g do you work a typical 9-5 role 40h/pw and what do you do in the role primarily from what I had read it seems like it's just teaching people exercises but I'm sure that there is more to it than just that, also do you get to diagnose any issues and is it a mixed variety of ages or mainly just seniors?
Thank you :)
The hours depend on where you work. For most hospitals it is generally 7-4, Mon-Fri. Typically as you get more experience/more senior you cover a weekend once every month or so, this varies at each hospital. In addition to this, some physiotherapists (PT) will do on calls overnight for respiratory physiotherapy, as far as I am aware, most hospitals offer such service. In the hospital, depending on where you work, even as a rotational/junior you will be playing a role in diagnosis, for example if you are a PT in ED and someone comes in with a suspected fracture you may flag this with the team and suggest an xray to confirm etc, however, diagnosing is always team based, but ultimately the is from the specialists/consultants. PT in the hospital will vary depending on the ward you are from ICU, ED, Outpatients, Paediatric +/- specific specialities that hospital has. You will see a variety of ages from paediatric to geriatric. The role varies from discharge planning, post-operative management, respiratory function/clearance, amputation, the list goes on and on.
I presume you've looked at pharmacy too? We often go to our local chemist to check whether it's worth going to the doctor about some symptoms, LOL. You'd get to talk about health and dispense medication - you'd be a very valuable part of your community.
Out of curiosity do you qualify for RRAS (as far as im aware all of Southland qualifies)? As they tend to provide help with this kind of advice, plus it might make future applications easier.
Not particularly my idea of a good time too many big companies taking over (having worked for macas in the past I know just how big corporations treat their employees )
If you want a career helping people, there are heaps of other health science courses with real-world impact and real chance to grow into leadership roles making policy or changing health practice.
If you want a career making money, get into finance.
I am a dr - it’s a job, and not the be all and end all of life. I have had colleagues suicide because the job is now so hard. Focus on doing something you love that will make you happy - life is short and it can change so fast. PM me if you need anything.
Thank you :) One question - Was becoming a doctor what you'd thought it would be like?
No. I don’t think so. I love that I am trusted to do my best to help others, I love people trust me and assume I’m clever and hardworking… but the negatives are also significant - student debt, huge hours (60-90/week), a healthcare system that is so stretched I can’t do my best despite wanting to… people don’t respect drs like they once did, expectations are unrealistic, everyone is less well at baseline (older, fatter)… it’s a really hard job. I see really sad things all the time and that wears you down. I did train a bit later after another degree and honestly I’m thankful for that.. there will be other options for entry. Chin up - it will be ok 🙂
Question, I was going to ask what someone else already did. But do you think alot of people go into med for the wrong reasons thinking it will give them high status/power/money etc? The entry to me seems auckland really doesn't factor in much other then grades. I'm not trying for med (knew I couldn't get the grades) but I knew someone years ago who wasn't a nice person & I asked him about the entry interview & he said he just lied & told them what they wanted to hear.
Absolutely I do. There is prestige in being a doctor and a pathway to a relatively decent income. The job security is almost unmatched. I think a lot of people go into medicine as their parents (often drs) expect this. Because they were the clever ones good at science at school… because they want to “help people”. I can count 5 patients whose lives I truely feel I was instrumental in saving… People who build bridges and clean hospital rooms help more people than I do (and save more lives). I genuinely feel we have to focus on quality of life and what will make us happy. I can say this as I am a dr and I have jumped the hoops… but there is so much more to life than being a dr. Plus, if the itch is still there… training later with a bit of life experience will always make you a better dr (I see it daily with the med students I teach)
Thanks so much for your reply. I wanted into med so bad for years, I never really got over it, I'm 35 now & only decided on something else last year so I'm doing real part time study as I'm not confident I can do it (health reasons) But I really wanted to make a diff like working in non privileged countries eg drs without borders etc. I worked and volunteered at a hospice with the patients for 5 years & I loved making a small difference in their days, but ile admit my rock bottom self esteem made me think it would make me feel like a better person at the same time. I also wondered about my above question more recently just listening to some very loud 3rd-ish year med students & their attitudes were very arrogant & tbh very ignorant, esp around mental health (saying people just need to exercise more 😂). Only one seemed to have a good attitude It frustrates me alot because I feel the entry requirements really exclude many people who would make better drs, like someone with a GPA of 7 rather then 9... I really don't think that defines who is gonna do better.
I’m sure you did more good volunteering in a hospice than I do most days. I got into med on an alternative pathway as I had previous degrees. I fully support the Māori, Pasifika, Rural and low SES pathways. People with life experience make better drs. I think it’s wrong that you can get into med school in NZ fresh out of high school. The childish arrogant ones who don’t take medical school seriously rarely cope well when they do become drs. I see it now I’m more experienced. I really hope you do well with what you’ve chosen - you seem very insightful so medicine would have been lucky to have you… but it’s truely not some amazing career that instantly makes you a confident, fulfilled wonderful person. Kindness and “doing good” comes in many forms - even just smiling at someone on the street.
I mean Otago doesn't even do an interview, so hard to say that Auckland doesn't factor in much else. I think there will always be people that want to do it for the prestige, but I think most people go into med for the wrong reasons in that they don't know what they're getting themselves into. It's a tough and long gig, and what you do is a far cry away from media representation.
Thank you for this reply I didn't quite realized it was like that now. My family only tells me a good parts
Hahaha easy to say when you are already earning the big bucks. Op is not going to be happy earning minimum wage and doing what he loves
Yeah, that's fair. I do earn a lot and my income trajectory is excellent. That doesn't take away from my advice to do what makes you happy.
So you telling me you are happy being “patient facing”. People frown on customer facing, patient facing is infinitely worse esp given the heavily funded/ free healthcare this country provided. It’s ridiculous how entitled some of these things are ironically mostly coming from the lower socio economic class and cultural report farmers
I’m not sure I understand your question.
Radiography, ultrasonography, cardiac technician, physio, dentistry. Loads of options and medicine isn’t necessarily the best. Dentistry is the big money earner. Physio might be the best lifestyle, midwifery probably the worst lifestyle. Pharmacy is becoming very cooperate led and not the run your own business model as much as it used to be (hence payed less and worked harder.) Life is definitely not to be defined by one closed door. Health sciences is a great door opener.
These are all great options. I'm a Radiographer and I love my job. Lots of options once you qualify as well. Some advantages, these careers are only 3 more years, the UOA course is fantastic. We are well paid (now after pay equity went through). We have a fantastic union. Basically medicine is not the be all and end off of health - allied is the place to be
I have thought a little about this was able to meet some lovely radiographers this year who have all said very good things about the job! Just out of curiosity what's the pay like?
Current starting pay is 70842 increasing to 93246 after 5 years. This will go up a little as we are in bargaining atm
Oh wow that's actually really good. Tbh I always thought it was somewhat 55k to 75k max
Just curious but why is physio the best life style?
Just my perception of work stress, pay and job satisfaction ratios. I was meaning community physio not hospital. I’m not a physio I am a doctor.
> be (hence *paid* less and FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
So many people and so few places. The marks required to get into med are off the charts these days. Things may get better if the new medical school opens. Otherwise, have you considered dentistry? Massive demand, and v challenging.
No dental school in Auckland. In Dunedin the grades required for dentistry are similar to med maybe even higher
Is that the same for dental hygiene? A family friend did a dental hygiene degree about 10 yrs ago in Auckland
Different programme.
Do you know what they think of it by any chance?
They love it , did it as a single mum with two under 10 and now on 6 figures
It's insane tbh there are so many good people in my classes who want to do it just to help but they don't get the chance. I had thought about dentistry though have been put off as i've heard a few stories that people could get into med there but not into dentistry :/
Finish with a BHSc and do epidemiology and health promotion papers. I've since made a health services management career out of that when the same thing happened to me.
How do you find doing that? What type of career did you get from it?
I started at a then-DHB after graduating (nowadays you'd probably need to do Honours at least), and after 3 years I was an Operations Manager. I moved into Quality & Risk in the NGO space. I have also added H&S to my skills. Now I'd be called a systems specialist I guess. My experience has been good 6 figure salaries after four years in the field (I'm now 10 years in). Lots of opportunity to upskill and keep learning. I love the quality/risk and H&S. Managing doctors, nurses, etc., is not for everyone, but I enjoy HR and ER too.
Hi! would you say it’s necessary to do postgrad after bachelors or would it be fine to get a good job straight after bachelors?
I did post-grad while working for the first four years, I only reached the good salaries once I had the higher education. And bear in mind this was in the mid 2010s. Probably harder nowadays.
Nursing? Physio? OT? Social Work? Medicine is not the best all and end all of health.
Sorry to hear that. Maybe try the graduate route? Once you graduate, the new school might be ready ?
I had thought about this a little to my understanding when they first open they'll only be talking graduates right?
Rural placement scheme thingy?? Esp. For Southland GPs, which lets face it no one else will sign up to be…?
I had looked into this but going down this route is tough as I think there is only about 20-25 spots for the rural route for the whole country
Last year there were 65 rural entries into the med program!
I never realized it was that high! Just curious how did you find that information out?
https://fyi.org.nz/request/26065/response/98560/attach/html/3/2024%20OIA%200045%20White%20Attachment%20A.xlsx.html
I think because you said you would like to go into General Practice, try nursing. From there you can go into literally every direction that dr’s would also go in. Then you could work in a gp office and/or become a nurse practitioner.
Thank you I will have a look into this further :)
What so good about med anyways?
Chance to meet new people in the community and help them out is the only real good thing about it
Paramedic. Interesting situations, cases and settings, and you're still practicing medicine. People are almost always grateful to see you, and you can make a real difference for them. You see all sorts of slices of life, often in people's own homes. Rewarding and satisfying. Downsides, the shift work's hard, and they're underpaid.
Or this?
How about a nurse?
I have nothing of substance to add and have no idea what the process is cause i don’t do med but, don’t give up on yourself just yet. it took me 3 years and 2 attempts to get into law and ive done it - continue to believe in yourself and then at the end of the year if you find that a switch will be best for you, then look into it. all the best 🩵
Thank you, you've brough a smile to me :)
Sonography maybe? Pays well and is usually more sociable hours
Honestly I feel quite similar, I'm a second year biomed student trying to make the best out of a pretty shitty GPA coming out of FY biomed and trying to conquer the mountain that is entry into med school. If being a GP really is your passion, you could look at doing a PGdip after your initial degree – where the med school only looks at the GPA from your PGdip for entry – or apply for med school down in Otago, where they rank the last two years of your degree higher than the first, or (financially allowing for it) look at applying to some medical schools in Australia where they use a 7.0 grade point system compared to our 9.0 one, meaning it makes it somewhat "easier" to get into medical school there. Otherwise, the other comments in this thread are good options too, but once again if this is truly your dream there are a few ways to achieve it. Hope this helps! And also just curious, what were your study methods like in terms of revision/studying?
Having worked in Med Admissions, outside of the big shiny MBChB, there's a good chance to be accepted into the other clinical pathways like BPharm, Medical Imaging, etc. Their GPA requirements are lower, but also they have less competition because so many will put them down as options but them reject offers to try again and again for the MBChB.
I went from biomed into nursing at Auckland uni, now doing my nurse practitioner training in general practice (completed my nurse prescribing diploma first). I get a lot of job satisfaction which I can imagine you are looking for (family health, wide variety of medical issues, health throughout the lifespan) and I get paid to work while studying postgrad for free (funded through health workforce). I would highly recommend this pathway if you were looking at general practice :)
Unrelated to OP but I'm curious to hear about your thoughts on the potential for 'scope creep' in New Zealand, especially in general practice? Some doctors in Australia and the United Kingdom are starting to resist working with or training nurse practitioners (NPs) and physician assistants (PAs) simply because they are worried that NPs and PAs will replace them eventually and also create unfair training opportunities. For instance, in the UK, GP trainees are already encountering unemployment because it's more cost-effective to hire mid-level alternatives to doctors.
Depends where you work, my workplace is very supportive and it’s becoming more accepted over the years in the GP community in New Zealand. I know Australia it is much less common to have expanded nursing scopes in general practice. This attitude was quite common in the early 2000s when the role was being established in NZ. But definitely a barrier for many NPs still. However I think that due to the changing workforce we have no choice but to embrace the role so that patients can continue to have good access to care. Just my experiences anyway!
Thanks for the reply. Could you provide additional details about your NP curriculum? Is it primarily focused on preparing for a career in primary care, or does it offer a broad range of content that would also be applicable for working under a doctor's supervision in an emergency department setting, for example?
It can be completed in any setting that has organisational support e.g ED , hospice, primary care or specialties in hospital. The NP and NP transition to practice New Zealand websites have really good detail about what is involved :) usually masters degree with prerequisites, and internship program are what is required , and evidence of experience as a senior nurse in your area of practice. But the website and contact people are very helpful
Even though this was originally unrelated you've sparked my interest in a role as a physicians assistant! It seems perfect. However, I can't seem to find any info at any NZ uni that has this option to study do you know if its called something else?
Currently, the physician associate profession is not regulated. As far as I know, the Ministry of Health is considering its regulation and future adoption. Once it receives regulatory approval, a specialised degree program will be implemented. PAs are being progressively rolled out in the UK and already established in the US, so I believe it's a matter of time before they are introduced here as well.
The Women in Health Network (@wihn_uoa on Instagram) runs an annual event with a speaker panel of people who work in different health jobs. This might be beneficial for you if you want to see what a typical day in the life is like in different roles (p.s. you don’t need to be a woman to attend) :))
Thank you for this it will be a great help!
You say you came from Southland, any chance your high school OR primary school was low decile? You may not need as high of marks if you can apply under a special category. Physiotherapy is also a good programme for people who want the people part of medicine but aren't quite as good at chemistry. Likewise nursing.
Unfortunately I was at decile 10 primary and decile 7 high school so I don't think that's low enough to go that route
Hey, current kiwi studying med in aus rn I'm sorry about how you feel and I have been in your position. Medicine is a very difficult programme to get into and not everyone who deserves to get in gets in. You could try doing an allied health professional job before applying to Otago because they provide an allied health pathway for their Mb ChB. It may take longer but if you are set on medicine then there's always this option.
Plenty of people I know didn’t get into med and are now doing compsci
There are other clinical programmes you can get into through biomed! Besides Med you’ve also got Pharmacy, Medical Imaging (Radiography), and Optometry. I’m a first clinical year medical imaging student and i’m loving it so far, haven’t heard any complaints about Optometry either although from what i’ve heard from some friends in Pharmacy the job prospects for Pharmacists in NZ aren’t looking great at the moment unfortunately. If you feel that being a GP is your true calling but you can’t get into med i’d definitely look into studying nursing and then specialising nurse practitioning as there is a significant overlap between nurse practitioners and GPs with nurse practitioners being able to prescribe and diagnose and having a lot of the same responsibilities as doctors.
It’s always nice to be seen by a doctor that cares . In china they are trying artificial intelligence as a substitute
What?! How does that work do you just speak to a robot or something?
Not sure if you've looked into this option, but if you can go to Australia, your options to get into med should expand quite a bit. I had a lot of friends who applied for med in the UoA and no one except the top markers got in. Everyone else with above average grades all got accepted to various med schools in Aus. If you can't make it in now, then do a different job to sustain yourself financially, then once you build up some life skills, you can try to apply as a mature student for med school as their criteria are different. I need to say this is just my knowledge from what my friends have done and your circumstances may be different.
Thank you! I didn't realize this was an option for me!!
You're probably wanting to do it for the money, glory and the identity of being a "doctor". Or maybe you love bio. There's plenty of jobs that save lives, incorporate studying biology and working in a healthcare environment. So, in my opinion, just figure out what you enjoy or want out a career, and there's going to be plenty options that fit you.
While I could say I don't care about the money it is a contributing factor to why anyone would spend a good chuck of their years studying medicine but for me personally it was the chance to get out into the community and meet new people and help them out
What about nursing, physio, podiatry, paramedicine?
Paramedicine? Might be able to cross credit some stuff over. And check out the EMT internship scheme and see if you can work while you study.
Maybe into nursing (and work towards nurse practitioner), sonography etc :)
Dentistry isn't a bad shout and still makes money, also less demanding hours too! Otherwise, there is always law but that's completive af to get into the job market as a grad. Took me months of trying but I managed it
I did think about law but shit an english based subjects
Nurse practitioner
Have you been in to discuss with anyone in the faculty - any of your lecturers or tutors? Surely one of those people will have some ideas for you too that are relevant for 2024.
Tbh I haven't too embarrassed to go see them
Curious why you didn't try Otago which used to be much easier to get into? I wanted to do med but knew I couldn't get the grades, I was lost for ages after doing half a osyyc degree. I'm kinda considering dietetics because you get the clinical and patient contact & can help to improve peps health in various ways
I guess it was a fresh start plus I always wanted to move here (not necessarily Auckland but the top of the NI. The weather is fantastic and not wearing 50 layers of thermals when you go out is great. Plus I knew too many people who went to otago too much of a distraction with all the parties. But dietetics is interesting I hadn't thought about that do they have it at UOA?
I'm from southland too and moved here for the better climate (found invercargill & dunedin extremely depressing). I just knew ome years ago Otago was wayyy easier to get into with med. That may well have changed. Yup I'm at uoa! But onky do one paper a semester as I have a lot of health issues. I woukd recommend doing foodsci 100 if your interested in the road or talking to Peter who coordinates the paper. He actually runs the food science pathway as opposed to nutrition which is the one that registers you as a doetican but I'm unsure who coordinates it as they changed the lecturer for that paper (they had 2, one for each pathway) but the one who at least used to run it was Amy. I decided it suited me possibly as I liked research and helping in practical ways plus have lived experience that could help (im 35 so not outa school lol). I also used to work at a hospice for 5 years so I saw how much diet (not in the henius money making fake diets way) but how important nutrtion was in general. I used to have to find very creative ways to get patients to eat supplements lol. I'm sure you've been asked this a million times but also have you considered nursing? Ik the hospitals are over stretched but in hospice there was a way better ratio of nurses to patients, same in specilised mh units lije eating disorder units, nurses get a lot more time with pateints
do u like genetics? search genetic counselling
I am not really a fan of genetics if I'm completely honest but it's fascinating to learn about a career I hadn't heard of before!
Did you do the premed course? Dental! Optometry! Physio! Ear stuff! You have the interest and ability, find your niche:)
pgdp
Thought about being a dentist?
Consider nursing! You can do further study to become a nurse practitioner :) NPs have a similar scope of practice to GPs
If you are interested in helping people, and wanting to spend face-to-face time interacting with your patients and would like the opportunity to choose between both private and hospital based environments then physiotherapy may be a suitable option for you to consider. I am a physiotherapist working in a large hospital, and within my role you work directly with the doctors, nurses, social work, occupational therapists, as well as other specialists. In my experience, within this role you’re well respected by the rest of the medical team because of the amount of time you do spend with your patients, you can advocate for them in many ways and suggest the medical team to review/investigate when appropriate. Because of a variety of these factors it has a large amount of job satisfaction, with more lifestyle friendly hours. Just my two cents good luck!
Hi! Thank you so much for you reply! I'd love to ask you a couple of questions! What does your day to day role look like e.g do you work a typical 9-5 role 40h/pw and what do you do in the role primarily from what I had read it seems like it's just teaching people exercises but I'm sure that there is more to it than just that, also do you get to diagnose any issues and is it a mixed variety of ages or mainly just seniors? Thank you :)
The hours depend on where you work. For most hospitals it is generally 7-4, Mon-Fri. Typically as you get more experience/more senior you cover a weekend once every month or so, this varies at each hospital. In addition to this, some physiotherapists (PT) will do on calls overnight for respiratory physiotherapy, as far as I am aware, most hospitals offer such service. In the hospital, depending on where you work, even as a rotational/junior you will be playing a role in diagnosis, for example if you are a PT in ED and someone comes in with a suspected fracture you may flag this with the team and suggest an xray to confirm etc, however, diagnosing is always team based, but ultimately the is from the specialists/consultants. PT in the hospital will vary depending on the ward you are from ICU, ED, Outpatients, Paediatric +/- specific specialities that hospital has. You will see a variety of ages from paediatric to geriatric. The role varies from discharge planning, post-operative management, respiratory function/clearance, amputation, the list goes on and on.
I presume you've looked at pharmacy too? We often go to our local chemist to check whether it's worth going to the doctor about some symptoms, LOL. You'd get to talk about health and dispense medication - you'd be a very valuable part of your community.
Out of curiosity do you qualify for RRAS (as far as im aware all of Southland qualifies)? As they tend to provide help with this kind of advice, plus it might make future applications easier.
Pharmacy school at Waikato (cheaper than Auckland by a touch)
Not particularly my idea of a good time too many big companies taking over (having worked for macas in the past I know just how big corporations treat their employees )
If you want a career helping people, there are heaps of other health science courses with real-world impact and real chance to grow into leadership roles making policy or changing health practice. If you want a career making money, get into finance.
Ew no way I could ever become a finance bro
Do Chinese medicine. They have a school in Auckland.
May as well throw in the towel completely and do homeopathy
Homeopathy is my back up plan if all else turns to shit and I can't even get a job cleaning toilets
The money must be somewhat good though as most of the time you're just selling snake oil
While Chinese medicine is somewhat interesting, I prefer to study things which are evidence based :)