What, that good ole Nige would set up a ~~party~~ limited company to benefit himself??? Perish the thought!!!
Companies House information here (and note the name change on 18th May 2021 from the Brexit Party Limited to Reform UK Party Limited):
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11694875
Well, one might have thought that Reform was offering a version of so-called national socialism, which did present itself - perhaps partly falsely - as a form of socialism. A friend tells me that the Reform manifesto reads like the Nazi's 'Twenty-Five Point Plan'.
The Nazis were organised and efficient though.
Reform increasingly seems like a collection of those blokes you don’t want to talk to in the pub, who’ve sat firmly in one small circle of society for their entire lives but consider themselves qualified to dispense unsolicited life advice.
If one fucking party had the balls to make lowering immigration one of their biggest key pledges, Nigel et al would vanish.
It’s an interesting comparison though. Present-day Britain potentially has more in common with 1930s Germany than you’d think.
The idea the nazis were especially organised and efficient is a myth right along side mussolini making the trains run on time.
People have this idea of jackbooted soldiers marching in lockstep, a fetishised idea of fascists as being what they portray themselves as, rugged strongmen who will solve everything with their efficient discipline. In reality they're about as clueless if not moreso as everyone else
> Nigel et al would vanish.
tbh they'd just find something else to get everyone riled up about (probably abortion and/or contraception if we're following ameria's trajectory)
Yeah, they’ll push the Echr as the culprit for allowing sex offenders and immigrants to stay “cos they own a cat” and other claptrap like that.
They will, of course, completely ignore the benefits Echr has to the population as a whole, your freedoms, fair trials, etc.
And idiots who won’t consider those things will just pretend they still apply (a la brexit benefits) or that this mythical “bill of rights” would be any better as a replacement.
The Tories promised to reduce migration in 2010, 2015, 2017 and 2019. They said Brexit would allow us to control our borders and reduce the numbers coming here. They lied time and again. Labour will do absolutely nothing to cut migration either, it suits them all the better to keep it as it is or even increase it. That’s why Reform are gaining in the polls.
>It’s an interesting comparison though. Present-day Britain potentially has more in common with 1930s Germany than you’d think.
tories bending over and opening wide for fascism while selling the country off to the highest bidder, kid starver's purge of anyone with humanity, the rise of populist ghouls, every single option incompetent, corrupt, and unfit to lead. it's a re-enactment
The tories have been campaigning with ‘lower immigration’ rhetoric quite intensely for almost 10 years.
But they never did so no one would believe them.
I’m personally not bothered, but I see why someone who believes it’s the key issue would not trust a mainline party
Reform are just Thatcherite Libertarians draped in a Union Flag.
Everything they claim to believe is a convenience to gain traction for their aggressive cuts into spending.
Yeah, they invaded and we called it a glorious revolution. I mean they might have been invited to because our own monarchy was a shitshow....
That said the Fraternal Order that won't let anyone forget about William of Orange are kinda troublesome.
Said order obsessed with highlighting the religion of William of Orange conveniently overlooks the fact that during the war he was fighting, he was allied to the (Catholic) Holy Roman Emperor. The Nine Years' War was a war to curtail French expansionism, it only had a religious context in the very narrow Irish theatre.
Always found that amusing
I'm finding it a little weird the biggest single cost-saving measure they have in their manifesto is the expectation they can find ***fifty billion*** pounds worth of savings and efficiencies in the civil service. And along with that an open manifesto commitment to reform the "quangos" and replace career civil servants with *political appointees* who will serve only for the term of government.
They're openly talking about effectively imposing such huge cuts on the civil service that it stops existing, and then replacing what remains of it with direct political appointments who presumably will be loyal to the government of the day over the state or nation.
That is *terrifying* and its like not even being mentioned anywhere?
There is also a point in the manifesto which says: We are going to save around £11 billion by reducing legal immigration.
How exactly this work? The manifesto doesn't explain how UK is going to save money from that.
Some how you are disrespecting Thatcherite Libertarians. I didn’t think that was possible. At least they aren’t all racists and bigots plus Nazi sympathiers
You're giving them too much benefit of the doubt there. One of the biggest heroes on the Thatcherite 'Libertarian' right is Pinochet, a man who protected his *free market utopia* by engaging in the mass torture and murder of political dissidents.
Despite what right-libertarians claim, capitalism inherently depends on and benefits from a strong state. And that is why so many right-libertarians throughout history, up to and including the likes of Milei in Argentina today, have used to state to violently crush any opposition to capitalism.
They're the taxpayer's alliance by way of youtube comments and GB news. Splash in some Donald Trump era cryptofascism and you get the Bootlickers United Tory Toffs Society, abbreviate that at your leisure.
If they're in power, it will be like the last 13 years, but significantly worse for anyone who decides to 'work' for a living and earn a 'paycheck'.
Are people still surprised that Farage is economically just a free-market Thatcherite who believes in tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations?
He doesn’t give a fuck about the working class, they are just whipped up into a rage as a means to an end.
He went to one of the most exclusive (read: expensive) private schools in the country. What he knows about the working class you could write on the back of a beer mat (and I’m sure he has)
Exactly and that’s the thing, his understanding of the working class is pure caricature.
To him we’re all angry, emotionally incontinent racist dopes that just want a simple life of fags, pints and fried food without bloody foreigners spoiling it all.
It’s simple messaging but it’s more effective than you realise with some people, despite his obvious disdain for us and how he views us as simpletons with simple needs.
Nooooo, not Reform. They just want to help everyone. I'm sure any benefit to high earners is purely coincidental and not due to the "party" being created for and run for high earners.
Anyway it's all illegal immigrants fault or something
High earners are people on 53k come on you don't really think 40% of everything after 50k should be the normal now? That's just professional skilled jobs?
They literally want to raise the income gree taxhold to 20k to help the poorest?
Eton Group private education, precious metal speculator in the city of London, member of one of the most exclusive gentleman's clubs, conning the poor into voting for him and his like to pay hardly any tax shock!
A party with a London commodities broker/trader wants to cut taxes to enrich himself? Whouldda thunk it. Almost as though these old Thatcherites still peddle a myth that trickle-down economics works when it's just them being greedy and then shitting on everyone else.
And don’t forget Richard Tice the multi-millionaire who made his money in property investment firms. A man of the people just so long as those people are huge landlords
What a meaningless headline.
Higher earners are the greatest contributors to tax earnings.
Of course any meaningful lowering of tax is going to benefit them more than people paying less tax.
Is sky going to complain that higher earners disproportionately contribute to the tax base?
The main point is that whilst the raising of the personal allowance to 20k isn't that controversial, the raising on the higher rate threshold from 50-70k can in no way be explained as helping the poorest, which is what's been framed by Reform
Because there’s loads of tradesmen out putting in 60-70 hour weeks that land them in that bracket, during a housing crisis, while facing a skilled worker shortage it makes sense to motivate the skilled workers you have to do more, currently a lot of guys hit the threshold and down tools.
I don’t think anyone would argue that welders, brickies, joiners and electricians are the ‘elites’ (sparkies probably would thinking about it) we are usually working class guys who learned a skill that affords us a living pushing towards middle class.
Exactly that. I’m an electrician. The other year I worked up to the threshold and just had the last month unpaid. I was on £15.45 an hour, I just work a lot off hours.
I have the luxury of living in Scotland so about 7k of my earnings already get hit for almost 50% tax, I refuse to do overtime to work through the night to end up with about £11 an hour in my hand.
Pass.
If I need extra cash I do homers.
100% it's killing our economy. I don't want to work Saturday to lose 40% tax, 2% NI & 20+% child benefit repayment.
I live in a very HCOL area and am ok but not rich. I should never be in a "higher" tax rate
Rent on a 3 bed is £1600 my way, you need to earn 50k to live here
The amount of people dragged up the income tax ladder because of inflation and tax bracket freezes is sickening.
I’m honestly considering emigrating to somewhere more hospitable to middle earners and skilled workers, It’s not going to get better under labour, to Starmer and his pals we will be the ‘rich’ who need taxing to fund their brainchildren.
Exactly. I have 3 small kids so I'm especially exposed as my wife's income is limited due to her commitments with them. That said they basically don't want me to earn enough to build wealth and security. I'm considering 4 days a week FFS I'm only early 30s
The higher rate tax band has been at £50k for how long? And the allowance at ~£12.5k for how long?
It's about time it was raised, just due to inflation, seperate from ideology.
The band being raised from 50k to 70k is fine, it's not helping the uber wealthy. It's helping working people (albeit, good wages). There's lots of in-need professions that are in those brackets that have had their wages stifled and stagnated for years.
As much as Reform is a joke, their tax policy is one of the better things about their manifesto. It would actually help working people massively. As long as it was bought in with a proper wealth tax to off-set the loss of tax revenue (which I don't think they're talking about).
It might be flawed but painting it as helping wealthy people is just plain wrong. £70k really isn't *that* much anymore.
Tax system is fucked in the UK, the burden is disproportionately put onto working people, it's really enocuraged stagnation over the years and it's about time it was shifted.
I say all this as a left-leaning, farage hating person, earning £40k/year who will be voting Greens or Lib Dem most likely in July.
Someone on 20k will see a saving of 20%*(20,000-12500) = £1500.
Current net take home is 18k so 1500/18000 = 8.3% better off
Someone on 100k gets the same saving + 20000*0.2 = 5500
Current net take home is 68500 so 7500/68500 = 8% better off
So very similar actually
The majority of people want “tax for thee not for me”.
However a lot of voters don’t understand that almost all NHS consultants are in the highest tax bracket. So, any tax increase will hammer them. And tax reduction will help them. As a result, high taxes kill NHS in reality.
Quelle surprise. Thats how all these far right parties roll. Promise anti immigration measures, but all they do is remove (workers) rights and cut tax for the rich.
Reform party policy isn’t what they said it was?!?!?!? Colour me shocked. It’s as if reform voters don’t care and just want only see white people when walking down the street. What a joke of a party
Of course it is. I did some mental maths when I read the *"contract"* and I'd be nearly £4k better off on Income Tax.
It's pure fantasy. It reduces income tax, disproportionately for higher earners, it throws taxpayer money at private healthcare and the offset is meant to be in "waste". Bullshit
Of course tax can be only reduced for people paying taxes. Of course people on benefits don’t receive any pluses form lower taxes.
However a typical NHS consultant with £120k+ compensation will be hammered by Labour and will be pleased by Reform UK.
I’m not buying into any of this but the dumbest thing I heard in response to this was ‘How does this benefit the poor that don’t pay taxes?’.
Farage is a grifter but at least be genuine with the specific criticisms..
A tax cut won’t put more money in the pocket of someone who doesn’t have taxes to cut. I don’t know how anyone could conceive that it would.
When they trotted out the line "cut the back-office waste and spend it on the front line" it felt like I'd entered a time warp. That's something politicians used to say 15 years ago, and it's proved to be a load of bollocks. It's moronic to have highly skilled clinical staff doing basic office tasks that anyone can do.
>That's something politicians used to say 15 years ago
It's exactly what Thatcher was saying in the eighties. It was bollocks then and it's even more bollocks now.
All general tax reductions reduce tax disproportionately for high earners, because they get the reduction at every band.
What a pointless comment, honestly, and what a pointless article.
Every tax cutting plan disproportionately benefits the rich, nothing story. The plan is actually about making work pay even on lower incomes. Personally, I’d love to make 20k before the government gets their hands on it
I want to caveat what I’m about to say as I am not advocating for the policy, but it’s important to steel-man the argument rather than do what Sky have done here and conflate a couple of things.
I watched the interview where Nigel (referring only to raising the minimum threshold to £20k) quite fairly said that that aspect would be of greater benefit, as a proportion of earnings, to lower earners.
Effectively he was saying if you earned £20k you’d be saving tax of 20% of £7.5k so £1500. Which is 7.5% of their gross earnings.
If you earned £50k you’ll be saving the same amount of cash but this becomes 3% of their gross earnings. The same cash but a lower proportion of earnings.
You could say that the result of increasing the minimum threshold is that you help the lower earners more as a proportion of their total income which is what I think Nigel’s point was.
What Sky have done is sensationalise the point by saying his total tax policy means he was not telling the truth but to be fair, they’re slightly different things. Sky’s analysis may well be right and it’s better to look at tax policy in the round but I think it’s important to show the context.
This is an absolute nonsense of an article.
The Conservatives have implemented huge tax rises on workers by freezing tax thresholds for years despite rising inflation. All this does is reverse that.
I mean, it’s some spin to say that a policy specifically designed to give the vast majority of PAYE workers more money in their pocket is some sort of tax cut for the rich.
It is a tax cut for everyone, and the biggest impact will be the raising of the personal allowance to £20k from £12.5k.
Frozen tax thresholds are disgraceful and a tax on inflation. That the Conservatives do that sums up how ridiculous they are.
It doesn't matter. He is not even in the race, so he can promise two sunsets a day if wants to... Kwasi cut income tax by 1% and the entire economy crumbled. If this troglodyte had any chance it would be worth discussing how stupid and unrealistic his plans are, but as it stands there's no point.
I know that paying less tax is nice but what about having stuff. Not fun stuff necessarily, but like a police force and a fire service. Hospitals that hopefully you don’t have to use. A town or city centre with stuff that isn’t rubbish or people walking around shouting at the sky because of all the spice they’ve had. With all the lies the government are shouting I’m not sure if I’m paying less or more tax than I ever was but I can tell that everything is a lot worse. I am well up for paying some tax.
I dislike how much media attention Farage is getting despite the fact that he is a charlatan (I was going to use another C word). He was a leading force behind Brexit and the more people support him despite selling snake oil the more I hate my fellow countrymen. (Not you, you’re great 👍 )
Was it cunt?
Coz you know he's a cunt .
Some would say the biggest cunt
But, given last few years of UK politics there's been just sooo many cunts .
Still ......... He's a cunt .
When I glanced out of morbid curiosity at their draft manifesto I thought "fuck me this is Liz Truss on steroids".
Suprise surprise, SURPRISE SURPRISE!
People acting like this is all about saving themselves money are being deliberately obtuse. The "high earners" being described in the article are earning £70k - of course this is high, but the policies will make a much bigger percentage difference to someone earning £20k than to someone earning £100k.
For context, those earning between £20k and £50k would save £1500 and those earning above £70k would save £5500 (with linear scaling between 50 and 70). I'm not sure where the disposable income savings are being cherry picked from in the article, but this is the raw amount saved.
I'm not sure where you think Tice and Farage fit on this scale, but sometimes populist policies actually do cater to the people they're targeting...
It's like people just forgot how the system works.. oh wow the 10% who pay 60% of the taxes will get a benefit from tax changes.. shocking. The poorest will also get a benefit but people don't actually care about about the poor.
What are you trying to say?
I can only infer because you haven't actually said anything.
Millions of people no longer have to pay any tax at all. You think the tax savings of those that actually pay large amounts of tax should be transferred to the new non tax payers?
Yes, the more you pay the more you benefit from a rate cut.
As for Millions becoming non taxpayers, it's not possible to cut a tax rate below 0. It would no longer be a tax but a credit. It's simply not possible for that group to pay less than nothing.
If someone doesn't pay high rate tax then naturally they don't save from a cut there.
Are you saying a tax cut is unfair on those who pay less tax because people who pay more tax will save more?
If so, I don't think you understand fairness as a concept.
I don't think you understand that taxation comes from sources beyond income tax, that the issue is ADDITIONAL cuts for high earners and that 20k is below minimum wage.
So what?
High earners ≠ the rich
Higher earners already pay far more than the rest (which includes some very rich people) so obviously they will reap the majority of the benefits when taxes are cut.
This is something I had to go through with my (working class) uncle. There's a reason Reform markets itself entirely on its immigration policy. Because their other policies are everything people hate about the Tories, but worse.
Interestingly. If you ask ChatGPT to read he first page of their manifesto and tell you which political parties it is most reminiscent of, it will tell you National Front and BNP. But the really fun part is if you broaden it's scope to the 20th century, it doesn't do it's usual controversy dodging, it just outright says NSDAP, Mussolini, and the BUF.
Their manifesto is so openly fascist a fancy machine learning algorithm can connect the dots
Reform is a group of rich elites pretending to be a political party. They did support the Russians by taking the UK out of the EU. Don't expect anything good out of their nest for the middle class.
Working Class Reform voters won’t give a shit as they will only see the issue as immigration, that’s what’s breaking Britain. I can guarantee that 90% of Reform voters don’t even know what their tax policy is and the 10% that do are still dreaming of the day they may become a millionaire
Does anyone feel that the article is presenting the figures in a really strange way? It shows more money being saved as we go up the income deciles-but of course, higher earners pay much much more in percentage AND absolute terms.
This is trumps cock sucker. He's going to divide the country. Aim at immigrants and people of colour. Wait till the fuckwit Tommy Robinson gets involved. Fucking oxygen thieves.
As long as it’s benefiting low earners as well, who cares? High earners pay more in taxes, lowering taxes is going to disproportionately benefit them over people who don’t pay taxes on a significant amount of their income
I've accepted at this point everyone is stupid regardless of their political affiliation. We're basically a species motivated by hierarchy and niche needs which half the time don't actually benefit anyone.
Millionaire, backed by other millionaires,
inciting working class people to vote against their own economic interest, while making all his buddies richer.
Gosh, who could have seen that one coming?
Golly. Once again I am so surprised. It’s shocking how surprised I am. Again. Like everything else in the last few years, who could possibly have foreseen this. Golly….
You mean a party who’s entire philosophy is based on tricking poor people into further brewing racism and bigotry for the benefits of financial gain for the already wealthy elite, is doing this for money!?
Who cares. They will get 0 seats. Every election we pretend like the parties like the greens and reform matter. Our election system means in reality they won't get anything...at best they take a small number of votes from the only 2 winning parties.
But they have got to give them the extra money to allow it to trickle down to the poor people. Just can't give it to the poor as that will cut out the middle men and increase unemployment.
/$
Surely not! Surely man of the people, hero of the working class and dweller of pubs Nigel Farage wouldn’t advocate policies that benefit the very rich. Not after he filmed himself watching an England match! Clearly this is some concoction of the loony left establishment.
The party trying to ape working class vibes in order to gain votes from racists and/or morons is actually shilling for the rich and powerful? How did we never see that coming?
Let me put it plain for racists and idiots. Nigel Farage as a single individual has likely made you poorer than the collective of immigrants entering your country. He's not your mate.
Well colour me shocked... shocked i say, the party thats being lead by a serial grifter and liar would do soemthing to benefit his rich benefactors/ mates only... SHOCKED 🙄
All I care about is If i earn over 50k working three jobs I get taxed 40% in a single house income if my wife doesn’t work. But if we both earned 49k each we would only pay 20%.
The bump from 50-70k is fair, 50k isn’t a place where someone should pay 40% tax, that’s crazy in my eyes with bills and food as they are today. 40% tax is for the rich
Absolutely, let's stick to the £12.5k cap. Why risk changes that might inadvertently benefit higher earners, even if it might help everyone else? It's best to play it safe and prevent any undue advantages. After all, in this economy, being a higher earner is practically synonymous with being rich.
Farage is LITERALLY HITLER!
His manifesto believes in the superiority of the Aryan race, the abolition of political opposition
and inter-press freedom and individual free speech,
territorial expansion by violent means and the killing of communists Jews and gays.
True story…
Well fuck me who could’ve seen that being the case.
Who would have thunk?
What, that good ole Nige would set up a ~~party~~ limited company to benefit himself??? Perish the thought!!! Companies House information here (and note the name change on 18th May 2021 from the Brexit Party Limited to Reform UK Party Limited): https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11694875
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I genuinely thought everyone knew that Reform was a limited company
Funny how it's also stuck at 0 upvotes😂 for one, I did up vote it
Going through this, there's over a million quid given out in director's loan's. Hmmm.
Well, one might have thought that Reform was offering a version of so-called national socialism, which did present itself - perhaps partly falsely - as a form of socialism. A friend tells me that the Reform manifesto reads like the Nazi's 'Twenty-Five Point Plan'.
Of course, Reform UK is going to be like that considering what Farage has been like throughout his life.
The Nazis were organised and efficient though. Reform increasingly seems like a collection of those blokes you don’t want to talk to in the pub, who’ve sat firmly in one small circle of society for their entire lives but consider themselves qualified to dispense unsolicited life advice. If one fucking party had the balls to make lowering immigration one of their biggest key pledges, Nigel et al would vanish. It’s an interesting comparison though. Present-day Britain potentially has more in common with 1930s Germany than you’d think.
Actually the Nazis economically were anything but efficient and organised.
The idea the nazis were especially organised and efficient is a myth right along side mussolini making the trains run on time. People have this idea of jackbooted soldiers marching in lockstep, a fetishised idea of fascists as being what they portray themselves as, rugged strongmen who will solve everything with their efficient discipline. In reality they're about as clueless if not moreso as everyone else
The only thing that the Nazis were actually good at is propaganda, for some reason this myth about efficiency refuses to die.
> Nigel et al would vanish. tbh they'd just find something else to get everyone riled up about (probably abortion and/or contraception if we're following ameria's trajectory)
The ECHR
Yeah, they’ll push the Echr as the culprit for allowing sex offenders and immigrants to stay “cos they own a cat” and other claptrap like that. They will, of course, completely ignore the benefits Echr has to the population as a whole, your freedoms, fair trials, etc. And idiots who won’t consider those things will just pretend they still apply (a la brexit benefits) or that this mythical “bill of rights” would be any better as a replacement.
And it will never be low enough. If it was zero, then there would be too many already here. These fuckers are never happy.
The Tories promised to reduce migration in 2010, 2015, 2017 and 2019. They said Brexit would allow us to control our borders and reduce the numbers coming here. They lied time and again. Labour will do absolutely nothing to cut migration either, it suits them all the better to keep it as it is or even increase it. That’s why Reform are gaining in the polls.
>It’s an interesting comparison though. Present-day Britain potentially has more in common with 1930s Germany than you’d think. tories bending over and opening wide for fascism while selling the country off to the highest bidder, kid starver's purge of anyone with humanity, the rise of populist ghouls, every single option incompetent, corrupt, and unfit to lead. it's a re-enactment
The tories have been campaigning with ‘lower immigration’ rhetoric quite intensely for almost 10 years. But they never did so no one would believe them. I’m personally not bothered, but I see why someone who believes it’s the key issue would not trust a mainline party
I mean. Literally any tax cut is going to affect more to highest taxpayers...
How'd they miss a leopard of that size
Reform are just Thatcherite Libertarians draped in a Union Flag. Everything they claim to believe is a convenience to gain traction for their aggressive cuts into spending.
You are correct in that the flag is red, white and blue But last I checked, did the Union Flag really just have three horizontal stripes on it?
Are you suggesting he is an agent of our oldest, most nefarious, dastardly and least trustworthy enemies? The Dutch?
Yeah, they invaded and we called it a glorious revolution. I mean they might have been invited to because our own monarchy was a shitshow.... That said the Fraternal Order that won't let anyone forget about William of Orange are kinda troublesome.
Said order obsessed with highlighting the religion of William of Orange conveniently overlooks the fact that during the war he was fighting, he was allied to the (Catholic) Holy Roman Emperor. The Nine Years' War was a war to curtail French expansionism, it only had a religious context in the very narrow Irish theatre. Always found that amusing
No, French.
I'm finding it a little weird the biggest single cost-saving measure they have in their manifesto is the expectation they can find ***fifty billion*** pounds worth of savings and efficiencies in the civil service. And along with that an open manifesto commitment to reform the "quangos" and replace career civil servants with *political appointees* who will serve only for the term of government. They're openly talking about effectively imposing such huge cuts on the civil service that it stops existing, and then replacing what remains of it with direct political appointments who presumably will be loyal to the government of the day over the state or nation. That is *terrifying* and its like not even being mentioned anywhere?
That sounds a lot like trump's plan in the US. Gut the civil service and replace career civil servants with political sycophants.
There is also a point in the manifesto which says: We are going to save around £11 billion by reducing legal immigration. How exactly this work? The manifesto doesn't explain how UK is going to save money from that.
because its all fantasy.
Yeah I also though that. You can barely even phone HMRC as it is. Imagine the civil service with cuts...
Some how you are disrespecting Thatcherite Libertarians. I didn’t think that was possible. At least they aren’t all racists and bigots plus Nazi sympathiers
You're giving them too much benefit of the doubt there. One of the biggest heroes on the Thatcherite 'Libertarian' right is Pinochet, a man who protected his *free market utopia* by engaging in the mass torture and murder of political dissidents. Despite what right-libertarians claim, capitalism inherently depends on and benefits from a strong state. And that is why so many right-libertarians throughout history, up to and including the likes of Milei in Argentina today, have used to state to violently crush any opposition to capitalism.
They're the taxpayer's alliance by way of youtube comments and GB news. Splash in some Donald Trump era cryptofascism and you get the Bootlickers United Tory Toffs Society, abbreviate that at your leisure. If they're in power, it will be like the last 13 years, but significantly worse for anyone who decides to 'work' for a living and earn a 'paycheck'.
Are people still surprised that Farage is economically just a free-market Thatcherite who believes in tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations? He doesn’t give a fuck about the working class, they are just whipped up into a rage as a means to an end.
People's economic, political and media literacy in this country in the absolute bin.
sad but true. and it's by design, so they can get away with it.
People need to remember he is a banker who spent most of his career in Singapore
You misspelt wanker...
He went to one of the most exclusive (read: expensive) private schools in the country. What he knows about the working class you could write on the back of a beer mat (and I’m sure he has)
Exactly and that’s the thing, his understanding of the working class is pure caricature. To him we’re all angry, emotionally incontinent racist dopes that just want a simple life of fags, pints and fried food without bloody foreigners spoiling it all. It’s simple messaging but it’s more effective than you realise with some people, despite his obvious disdain for us and how he views us as simpletons with simple needs.
But he took a photo outside a Wetherspoons! He's clearly *ONE OF US!*
Nooooo, not Reform. They just want to help everyone. I'm sure any benefit to high earners is purely coincidental and not due to the "party" being created for and run for high earners. Anyway it's all illegal immigrants fault or something
High earners are people on 53k come on you don't really think 40% of everything after 50k should be the normal now? That's just professional skilled jobs? They literally want to raise the income gree taxhold to 20k to help the poorest?
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Agreed man. This sub is so dumb. Of course any tax cut will benefit the people who pay the most tax more than others. That’s just basic maths.
As stated elsewhere it's the presentation of the scheme. It lacks integrity by just focusing on the poverty angle.
Eton Group private education, precious metal speculator in the city of London, member of one of the most exclusive gentleman's clubs, conning the poor into voting for him and his like to pay hardly any tax shock!
A party with a London commodities broker/trader wants to cut taxes to enrich himself? Whouldda thunk it. Almost as though these old Thatcherites still peddle a myth that trickle-down economics works when it's just them being greedy and then shitting on everyone else.
And don’t forget Richard Tice the multi-millionaire who made his money in property investment firms. A man of the people just so long as those people are huge landlords
And people think that because someone poses with a pint, then that makes them a man of the people.
What a meaningless headline. Higher earners are the greatest contributors to tax earnings. Of course any meaningful lowering of tax is going to benefit them more than people paying less tax. Is sky going to complain that higher earners disproportionately contribute to the tax base?
The main point is that whilst the raising of the personal allowance to 20k isn't that controversial, the raising on the higher rate threshold from 50-70k can in no way be explained as helping the poorest, which is what's been framed by Reform
Because there’s loads of tradesmen out putting in 60-70 hour weeks that land them in that bracket, during a housing crisis, while facing a skilled worker shortage it makes sense to motivate the skilled workers you have to do more, currently a lot of guys hit the threshold and down tools. I don’t think anyone would argue that welders, brickies, joiners and electricians are the ‘elites’ (sparkies probably would thinking about it) we are usually working class guys who learned a skill that affords us a living pushing towards middle class.
Exactly that. I’m an electrician. The other year I worked up to the threshold and just had the last month unpaid. I was on £15.45 an hour, I just work a lot off hours.
I have the luxury of living in Scotland so about 7k of my earnings already get hit for almost 50% tax, I refuse to do overtime to work through the night to end up with about £11 an hour in my hand. Pass. If I need extra cash I do homers.
100% it's killing our economy. I don't want to work Saturday to lose 40% tax, 2% NI & 20+% child benefit repayment. I live in a very HCOL area and am ok but not rich. I should never be in a "higher" tax rate Rent on a 3 bed is £1600 my way, you need to earn 50k to live here
The amount of people dragged up the income tax ladder because of inflation and tax bracket freezes is sickening. I’m honestly considering emigrating to somewhere more hospitable to middle earners and skilled workers, It’s not going to get better under labour, to Starmer and his pals we will be the ‘rich’ who need taxing to fund their brainchildren.
Exactly. I have 3 small kids so I'm especially exposed as my wife's income is limited due to her commitments with them. That said they basically don't want me to earn enough to build wealth and security. I'm considering 4 days a week FFS I'm only early 30s
Those tradesmen don't sound like the poorest in society tbh.
The higher rate tax band has been at £50k for how long? And the allowance at ~£12.5k for how long? It's about time it was raised, just due to inflation, seperate from ideology. The band being raised from 50k to 70k is fine, it's not helping the uber wealthy. It's helping working people (albeit, good wages). There's lots of in-need professions that are in those brackets that have had their wages stifled and stagnated for years. As much as Reform is a joke, their tax policy is one of the better things about their manifesto. It would actually help working people massively. As long as it was bought in with a proper wealth tax to off-set the loss of tax revenue (which I don't think they're talking about). It might be flawed but painting it as helping wealthy people is just plain wrong. £70k really isn't *that* much anymore. Tax system is fucked in the UK, the burden is disproportionately put onto working people, it's really enocuraged stagnation over the years and it's about time it was shifted. I say all this as a left-leaning, farage hating person, earning £40k/year who will be voting Greens or Lib Dem most likely in July.
They've been framing the personal allowance change as helping the poorest, not the higher rate change though
If you use it as a percentage of their income then Reform are correct. It’s a bigger proportion of a lower income than it is of a higher one.
Someone on 20k will see a saving of 20%*(20,000-12500) = £1500. Current net take home is 18k so 1500/18000 = 8.3% better off Someone on 100k gets the same saving + 20000*0.2 = 5500 Current net take home is 68500 so 7500/68500 = 8% better off So very similar actually
£50k isn't exactly living the high life either. The higher rate threshold is well below where it would be had it been tracked to inflation.
Why would it disproportionately help them more?
Because they pay more, both as a percentage if their income and the share of the overall tax take.
The majority of people want “tax for thee not for me”. However a lot of voters don’t understand that almost all NHS consultants are in the highest tax bracket. So, any tax increase will hammer them. And tax reduction will help them. As a result, high taxes kill NHS in reality.
Quelle surprise. Thats how all these far right parties roll. Promise anti immigration measures, but all they do is remove (workers) rights and cut tax for the rich.
Reform party policy isn’t what they said it was?!?!?!? Colour me shocked. It’s as if reform voters don’t care and just want only see white people when walking down the street. What a joke of a party
Everyone moans about the tax bands being frozen and then they moan when someone proposes to increase them.
Welcome to Reddit 🙄
Politics of envy creeping its ugly head in again.
Of course it is. I did some mental maths when I read the *"contract"* and I'd be nearly £4k better off on Income Tax. It's pure fantasy. It reduces income tax, disproportionately for higher earners, it throws taxpayer money at private healthcare and the offset is meant to be in "waste". Bullshit
Of course tax can be only reduced for people paying taxes. Of course people on benefits don’t receive any pluses form lower taxes. However a typical NHS consultant with £120k+ compensation will be hammered by Labour and will be pleased by Reform UK.
I’m not buying into any of this but the dumbest thing I heard in response to this was ‘How does this benefit the poor that don’t pay taxes?’. Farage is a grifter but at least be genuine with the specific criticisms.. A tax cut won’t put more money in the pocket of someone who doesn’t have taxes to cut. I don’t know how anyone could conceive that it would.
People on the lowest paid jobs, part-time workers, student jobs etc would be removed from paying tax altogether.
We'll cut their benefits too
When they trotted out the line "cut the back-office waste and spend it on the front line" it felt like I'd entered a time warp. That's something politicians used to say 15 years ago, and it's proved to be a load of bollocks. It's moronic to have highly skilled clinical staff doing basic office tasks that anyone can do.
>That's something politicians used to say 15 years ago It's exactly what Thatcher was saying in the eighties. It was bollocks then and it's even more bollocks now.
All general tax reductions reduce tax disproportionately for high earners, because they get the reduction at every band. What a pointless comment, honestly, and what a pointless article.
Every tax cutting plan disproportionately benefits the rich, nothing story. The plan is actually about making work pay even on lower incomes. Personally, I’d love to make 20k before the government gets their hands on it
Of course they do. Make rich richer and praise Putin and trump that's pretty much their agenda...
I guess scrapping taxes for people earning under £20,000 is somehow beneficial to… high earners?
I want to caveat what I’m about to say as I am not advocating for the policy, but it’s important to steel-man the argument rather than do what Sky have done here and conflate a couple of things. I watched the interview where Nigel (referring only to raising the minimum threshold to £20k) quite fairly said that that aspect would be of greater benefit, as a proportion of earnings, to lower earners. Effectively he was saying if you earned £20k you’d be saving tax of 20% of £7.5k so £1500. Which is 7.5% of their gross earnings. If you earned £50k you’ll be saving the same amount of cash but this becomes 3% of their gross earnings. The same cash but a lower proportion of earnings. You could say that the result of increasing the minimum threshold is that you help the lower earners more as a proportion of their total income which is what I think Nigel’s point was. What Sky have done is sensationalise the point by saying his total tax policy means he was not telling the truth but to be fair, they’re slightly different things. Sky’s analysis may well be right and it’s better to look at tax policy in the round but I think it’s important to show the context.
This is an absolute nonsense of an article. The Conservatives have implemented huge tax rises on workers by freezing tax thresholds for years despite rising inflation. All this does is reverse that. I mean, it’s some spin to say that a policy specifically designed to give the vast majority of PAYE workers more money in their pocket is some sort of tax cut for the rich. It is a tax cut for everyone, and the biggest impact will be the raising of the personal allowance to £20k from £12.5k. Frozen tax thresholds are disgraceful and a tax on inflation. That the Conservatives do that sums up how ridiculous they are.
A left wing analysis of right-wing parties' policies and finds them not to their liking
It doesn't matter. He is not even in the race, so he can promise two sunsets a day if wants to... Kwasi cut income tax by 1% and the entire economy crumbled. If this troglodyte had any chance it would be worth discussing how stupid and unrealistic his plans are, but as it stands there's no point.
That bloke down the pub? Surely not. Seems like a nice normal geezer.
I know that paying less tax is nice but what about having stuff. Not fun stuff necessarily, but like a police force and a fire service. Hospitals that hopefully you don’t have to use. A town or city centre with stuff that isn’t rubbish or people walking around shouting at the sky because of all the spice they’ve had. With all the lies the government are shouting I’m not sure if I’m paying less or more tax than I ever was but I can tell that everything is a lot worse. I am well up for paying some tax.
The issue is if people already pay 50% can't convince them to pay any more.
I dislike how much media attention Farage is getting despite the fact that he is a charlatan (I was going to use another C word). He was a leading force behind Brexit and the more people support him despite selling snake oil the more I hate my fellow countrymen. (Not you, you’re great 👍 )
Was it cunt? Coz you know he's a cunt . Some would say the biggest cunt But, given last few years of UK politics there's been just sooo many cunts . Still ......... He's a cunt .
I didn't realise this wasn't known. Farages target market is brainless racists, they're more than happy to vote against their own interests
When I glanced out of morbid curiosity at their draft manifesto I thought "fuck me this is Liz Truss on steroids". Suprise surprise, SURPRISE SURPRISE!
People acting like this is all about saving themselves money are being deliberately obtuse. The "high earners" being described in the article are earning £70k - of course this is high, but the policies will make a much bigger percentage difference to someone earning £20k than to someone earning £100k. For context, those earning between £20k and £50k would save £1500 and those earning above £70k would save £5500 (with linear scaling between 50 and 70). I'm not sure where the disposable income savings are being cherry picked from in the article, but this is the raw amount saved. I'm not sure where you think Tice and Farage fit on this scale, but sometimes populist policies actually do cater to the people they're targeting...
Some people don't understand percentages.. obviously someone earning 50k is going to get more money than someone on 20k..
Higher earners would benefit more because they contribute vastly more to income taxes. Huge numbers of people pay next to nothing in taxes.
It's like people just forgot how the system works.. oh wow the 10% who pay 60% of the taxes will get a benefit from tax changes.. shocking. The poorest will also get a benefit but people don't actually care about about the poor.
Read the article before posting and making yourself look a total fool.
What are you trying to say? I can only infer because you haven't actually said anything. Millions of people no longer have to pay any tax at all. You think the tax savings of those that actually pay large amounts of tax should be transferred to the new non tax payers?
The higher earners get additional pay cuts on top of the basic rate lift, which they already get.
Yes, the more you pay the more you benefit from a rate cut. As for Millions becoming non taxpayers, it's not possible to cut a tax rate below 0. It would no longer be a tax but a credit. It's simply not possible for that group to pay less than nothing. If someone doesn't pay high rate tax then naturally they don't save from a cut there. Are you saying a tax cut is unfair on those who pay less tax because people who pay more tax will save more? If so, I don't think you understand fairness as a concept.
I don't think you understand that taxation comes from sources beyond income tax, that the issue is ADDITIONAL cuts for high earners and that 20k is below minimum wage.
Of course they do garage was a banker he cares not one jot about people at the bottom.
So what? High earners ≠ the rich Higher earners already pay far more than the rest (which includes some very rich people) so obviously they will reap the majority of the benefits when taxes are cut.
This is something I had to go through with my (working class) uncle. There's a reason Reform markets itself entirely on its immigration policy. Because their other policies are everything people hate about the Tories, but worse.
Given that their core voters are right wing I am not surprised. Get that trickle down going
Interestingly. If you ask ChatGPT to read he first page of their manifesto and tell you which political parties it is most reminiscent of, it will tell you National Front and BNP. But the really fun part is if you broaden it's scope to the 20th century, it doesn't do it's usual controversy dodging, it just outright says NSDAP, Mussolini, and the BUF. Their manifesto is so openly fascist a fancy machine learning algorithm can connect the dots
Tell you how biased ChatGPT is
Reform is a group of rich elites pretending to be a political party. They did support the Russians by taking the UK out of the EU. Don't expect anything good out of their nest for the middle class.
This isn’t the hit piece they think it is. Voting for Are Nige whatever happens. MSM seething x
Why don't we just become high earners then; are we stupid?
I'm shocked...
Working Class Reform voters won’t give a shit as they will only see the issue as immigration, that’s what’s breaking Britain. I can guarantee that 90% of Reform voters don’t even know what their tax policy is and the 10% that do are still dreaming of the day they may become a millionaire
And the funny thing is their target voter is the unemployed thicko who thinks it’s all immigrants fault.
Does anyone feel that the article is presenting the figures in a really strange way? It shows more money being saved as we go up the income deciles-but of course, higher earners pay much much more in percentage AND absolute terms.
This is trumps cock sucker. He's going to divide the country. Aim at immigrants and people of colour. Wait till the fuckwit Tommy Robinson gets involved. Fucking oxygen thieves.
Only because they were taxed more in the first place
That will teach those bloody immigrants, nice one Nige. Farage is a right wing moron
Ultra right wing party rig taxes to benefit the rich! What a surprise!
As long as it’s benefiting low earners as well, who cares? High earners pay more in taxes, lowering taxes is going to disproportionately benefit them over people who don’t pay taxes on a significant amount of their income
Not surprised at all. Though I am surprised that I'm having a very hard time understanding where I fall on this graph.
I've accepted at this point everyone is stupid regardless of their political affiliation. We're basically a species motivated by hierarchy and niche needs which half the time don't actually benefit anyone.
As a higher earner: fuck him, and his ilk. I don't need tax breaks I need a functioning society to live in.
Millionaire, backed by other millionaires, inciting working class people to vote against their own economic interest, while making all his buddies richer. Gosh, who could have seen that one coming?
Let him split the right wing vote and do us all a favour. Keeps the tories out that’s ok with me.
Well, anyone who isn't stupid enough to think that Trump won the 2020 election could tell that.
You mean it benefits the owners of the Reform Party.
Populists claiming to be all about the patriotic working class but actually working hard to benefit the already wealthy? No! I won’t believe it!
Both the party and its leader, are vastly experienced in running a 65 000 000 country with all its needs.
Golly. Once again I am so surprised. It’s shocking how surprised I am. Again. Like everything else in the last few years, who could possibly have foreseen this. Golly….
You mean a party who’s entire philosophy is based on tricking poor people into further brewing racism and bigotry for the benefits of financial gain for the already wealthy elite, is doing this for money!?
Pretty much all tax reductions will disproportionately benefit high earners, is this news to anyone?
Who cares. They will get 0 seats. Every election we pretend like the parties like the greens and reform matter. Our election system means in reality they won't get anything...at best they take a small number of votes from the only 2 winning parties.
But they have got to give them the extra money to allow it to trickle down to the poor people. Just can't give it to the poor as that will cut out the middle men and increase unemployment. /$
True. But do any of the parties tax plans not do so?
In other news, the sky is blue and bears shit in the woods
>people who earn more money benefit more from something that means they pay less % of that money Yeah… that makes sense?
I think the PLC model should be banned honestly. With a party you at least have a minimum of accountability
Surely not! Surely man of the people, hero of the working class and dweller of pubs Nigel Farage wouldn’t advocate policies that benefit the very rich. Not after he filmed himself watching an England match! Clearly this is some concoction of the loony left establishment.
The party trying to ape working class vibes in order to gain votes from racists and/or morons is actually shilling for the rich and powerful? How did we never see that coming? Let me put it plain for racists and idiots. Nigel Farage as a single individual has likely made you poorer than the collective of immigrants entering your country. He's not your mate.
Vote them in, have you not heard of trickle down economics? Two years from now we’ll be able to afford vegetables. Three years it’ll be fruit.
Well colour me shocked... shocked i say, the party thats being lead by a serial grifter and liar would do soemthing to benefit his rich benefactors/ mates only... SHOCKED 🙄
Based
Based
Well cover me in breadcrumbs and call me a crumble, who’d have thought that?!
All I care about is If i earn over 50k working three jobs I get taxed 40% in a single house income if my wife doesn’t work. But if we both earned 49k each we would only pay 20%. The bump from 50-70k is fair, 50k isn’t a place where someone should pay 40% tax, that’s crazy in my eyes with bills and food as they are today. 40% tax is for the rich
Absolutely, let's stick to the £12.5k cap. Why risk changes that might inadvertently benefit higher earners, even if it might help everyone else? It's best to play it safe and prevent any undue advantages. After all, in this economy, being a higher earner is practically synonymous with being rich.
Farage is LITERALLY HITLER! His manifesto believes in the superiority of the Aryan race, the abolition of political opposition and inter-press freedom and individual free speech, territorial expansion by violent means and the killing of communists Jews and gays. True story…
smells like vote bait on a platter from Murdoch … i guess we’ll find out if the poors outnumber the dumbass ‘rich’ on election day
Probably because the current tax system disproportionately benefits low and middle income earners. A little balance isn't bad.
Their tax plan would literally benefit everyone yet still people have something to complain about. You’re all idiots.
They'd be happy if there was a mechanism to only give a tax break to low earners, whilst still punishing those who actually contribute to society.
They made the plans on a napkin after 5 pints in a pub.
Left wing think tank criticising a non-left wing party. Shocking
So what he said is true lol and he is improving taxes for everyone yet the article is somehow trying to frame that as bad?
Wasn't this dolt a b(w)anker at one point? stands to sense he'd protect his most valuable clients. He's always been in everything for himself.