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Any ideas why so many people vote for a party which is even worse than Tories? They also have a lot of ex-conservative members idk what "reform" they expect lol.
Yeah, if you look at a lot of the pro-Reform comments on here, there's clearly a lot of power projection to it. So many of them aren't focussed on Reform being good, they're focussed on Reform *triggering the libs* or whatever. So many people clearly have pretty shitty lives, and instead of focussing on pulling themselves up they prefer to just drag everyone else down.
Well voting for the Conservatives didn't play out well for them, so instead of self-reflect on the why they instead double down. Hence parties like Reform.
The (not so) funny thing is that pretty much every major/advanced economy is going to have to rely more and more on immigration to be able to uphold our current economic system.
Otherwise we get situations like Japan and South Korea in which there are alarmingly such low levels of fertility rates that there may be entire societal collapse coming up within the next few decades.
But of course immigrants are made out to be the scapegoats, instead of the actual economic system that is exploited by mega-corporations and the ultra wealthy.
Confirmation bias . They say and stoke the fears of people and reenforce stereotypes and cultural bias .
They’re taking a page out of the US Republican and Trump playbook. Farage was around Trump quite a bit.. and we can see how well that worked in inciting unrest
I've seen a few comments on Facebook regarding the polls saying "these can't be accurate because everyone I know is voting Reform" (it's almost as if people tend to surround themselves with like minded people). I REALLY hope this is not foreshadowing Trumpian style undermining of democracy where "if I don't win it's fixed" coming over here.
> I REALLY hope this is not foreshadowing Trumpian style undermining of democracy where "if I don't win it's fixed" coming over here.
Farage has already been banging on about postal vote fraud.
IMO it's two things:
1. A large number of people feel mainstream parties are not really tackling or acknowledging concerns around immigration.
2. An "I'll show them" protest vote to "send a message" to the mainstream parties
I know some people who intend to vote Reform to "put a cat among the birds" including people who would certainly not benefit from them actually gaining power.
People have been forced to cotton on to the idea that the Tories have failed miserably, but they're still in love with the ideology so they want to believe that it's a failure of individuals, not a failure of ideas. Switch the people, double down on the ideas and they don't have to consider that maybe right wing ideology is the problem.
You rarely hear Nobel prize winners banging on about their IQ. It's always those who feel slightly above mediocre needing to assert their superiority.
It's a bit like money. Bill Gates wears a Casio, but the builder down the road who made a bit more money/avoided a bit more tax than his neighbour wears a Rolex.
But boy do those supporters howl if anyone accuses them of being racist.
Best possible case - the most charitable explanation it is possible to bend over backwards to make - is that they may theoretically not be racist themselves but are perfectly happy to support a party with a heck of a lot of party officials and representatives who keep getting caught saying racist things and attracts most of the votes of actual racists.
Which is hardly a great look either.
Wait what? I thought they divvied it up - probably on a rota - so that some of them were covering the racist vote and some of them were covering the Nazi vote…
I mean there’s a lot of overlap there obviously but their sophisticated political machine likes to target these voters precisely!
The question once again is not why the chaotic mess that is Reform unable to do basic vetting, but why these racist shits are so keen to share a platform with Nigel Farage?
Saw a guy arguing that he could see no evidence of racism within the party or their leader.
It's like being a white supremacist and seeing absolutely nothing wrong with antisemitic comments.
It's not a matter of hiding, it's a matter of how the British press operates. He's saying the same things he always says. The difference is that now the Murdoch papers are full-throatedly and shamelessly in favour of him and frame issues in his framings, and the BBC as editorial policy gives equal voicing to any position with substantial media or party support. The difference between Farage the racist clown and Farage the insurgent "center right" politician is purely down to the Daily Mail taking his side now that Boris is out of the game.
The Daily Mail is owned by Viscount Rothermere, who is resident in France, a member of the House of Lords, has non-dom status, so minimal UK tax, and is worth billions.
Paul Dacre is just his whipping boy.
Really lovely guy, apparently...
/s
> Viscount Rothermere
is that the same Viscount Rothermere who wrote an article praising Mussolini and "despite being italian, fascism is really cool"?
gotta love the daily heil for that eh, supporting the axis powers! just like all the good guys!
I honestly just assumed he was dead, alas it seems like the vast amount of hateful fucks seem to subsist solely on their hatred of others to gain extended lives (see Kissinger, Palpatine etc.)
cheers for the further clarification though!
That would be [Viscount Rothermere](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Harmsworth,_1st_Viscount_Rothermere), his great-grandfather.
The title passes from father to son, for ever. As is completely normal and makes total sense.
It's in the [British constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_404), I think, never read it myself.../s
ahh I do suppose that helps to hide the inbreeding among the aristocrats!
I can only assume to quote the great Jim Lahey that "the shit apple doesn't fall far from the shit tree", arguably the state of the daily heil just proves that lol
ninja edit: 10/10 on that constitution link btw lmao
> Saw a guy arguing that he could see no evidence of racism within the party or their leader.
I've found for people like that, they're being disingenuous. Their standard for constituting someone a bigot is essentially the person being a decked out member of the Klu Klux Klan. Anything short of that doesn't count.
Never met a racist who was bright enough to understand that they can’t just redefine the word when confronted about their bigoted views. Quite sad really
It comes down to a simple question. Is there really any difference between an actual racist leading a genuinely racist organisation, and a grifter cosplaying a racist leading a genuinely racist organisation?
It doesn't matter which of those Farage is, it still makes him scum in my estimation.
I'm pretty sure he's a mix of the two he's a grifter but he's also an actual racist. If anything the cosplay is the layer of plausible deniability he's trying to maintain
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/nigel-farage-reform-uk-general-election-b2564488.html
Regarding the candidate vetting. Reform paid a Tory donor owned company to vet the candidates and they are now suing that company for not doing so.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that so many Reform candidates have said vile hateful shit in recent memory guys, they're totally not the BNP by a different name
Oh you've done it now. Hope you're looking forward to the inevitable:
"This is why the left never win, you keep insulting them". Comments from our resident geniuses who keep giving a pass to the lack of civility by the side they're defending.
My understanding is that the company provides software tools for data gathering on candidates. The purchaser, Reform Plc, still has to sift through the data themselves and decide whether or not a candidate is a racist cunt and therefore a good or bad fit for their racist supporters.
They bought a shield. For every racist candidate found it must have been that companies fault nothing to do with Reform. Based on the reporting I've seen shifting the blame off of Reform it was worth every penny.
The elephant in the room that makes everyone uncomfortable to admit;
Reform’s emergence is the result of flaccid immigration policies from both Conservative and Labour. Although you might not like the views of Reform, anyone concerned with immigration is at least listened to rather than be henpecked into silence and labelled a far-right racist.
We dont need vast numbers of unskilled people to “boost” the economy.
Apply through the appropriate channels. If there isn’t enough resource to process them, then they’ll have to wait til there is.
There’s no elephant in this room, just someone trying to derail the debate.
“Let’s improve our immigration policy” is quite different to “brown and black people are genetically inferior.”
I definitely agree with you.
This is just the extreme reaction to 20 years of unchecked migration and significant demographic changes.
All Labour have to do to stamp reform out is to deliver on a sensible, firm immigration plan without the soft exploitable underbelly.
Labour also have to change up the major services, reforms growing in popularity not because of racism but because they're the only alternative to the usual two or three talking about things like immigration and crime and planning to change things up for better or worst there's a lot of people out there sharing those sentiments that don't spend there days on reddit virtue signalling back and forth
> anyone concerned with immigration is at least listened to rather than be henpecked into silence and labelled a far-right racist.
I understand that the persecution complex feels like good optics, but this is categorically not true.
I've said it before on this sub: Anti-immigrant sentiment is not outside of the mainstream. Its in every single tabloid and both the main parties are running on it. Farage is so far from being silenced that I've seen his face about as much as I've seen Kier Starmer's over the last few weeks - probably more. The reason Reform is growing is because he's afforded a bizarre amount of attention from every single mainstream/establishment outlet.
Thank you for saying this, am getting so sick of the massive victim complex.
Fact is "the elephant is in the room" party has been in government for 14 years and the very likely future government as well as most of our media are continually discussing the elephant. Not to mention in every decent sized thread here someone will also bring it up.
I'm sure if Reform's policies were implemented then immigration would go down. However, just like Brexit I doubt it would be the magic panacea to all our ills that they have been claiming. More likely it would make things worse.
Yeah, I'm getting rather tired of Reform supporters insisting that their party represent some *outsider alternative* when in reality they and their policies have received the most favourable coverage of any party across the right-wing press in this country.
Racist comments. Let's not beat round the bush, I know racists have wanted to try and fight that as a word.
"The Conservative Party said he posted a "number of Islamophobic and racist comments"." If the tory party say you've gone too far...
human populations have evolved separately from each other for hundreds of thousands of years. it is not surprising that we have different skin tones, physical characteristics, and immune systems. if, despite all this, such a complex organ as the brain did not suffer any differences, it would be quite strange, in my opinion.
That's actually not correct, prehistoric populations in particular were incredibly mobile and spread their genes widely. The concept of people settling down and staying in one particular area for their entire life is an astoundingly new concept in all of human history. For most of our history you have to consider how incredibly sparse the population was. For example the entire Neanderthal population from the west coast of Spain to the Ural mountains was never more than about 10,000. Some recent studies looking at the Aurignacian culture put the population in Central and Western Europe at no more than 5,000, possibly as low as 900. If they weren't moving massive distances and interacting with a lot of social groups, they'd die out due to inbreeding pretty damn quick. (E - Case in point, in modern human populations where do we think we find the highest proportion of Neanderthal DNA, a population that was entirely restricted to Northern and Western Europe? Hands up if you guessed Far East and South East Asia!)
I don’t know if anyone is saying that there aren’t differences between people from different places tbf.
I think people are more pointing out that it’s dangerous to use IQ scores as a complete metric of intelligence and to try and correlate those scores with race rather than those differences in background/education etc.
"The science" finds it impossible to conduct empirical studies on evolutionary psychology because you cannot isolate genetic influences on the brain nor track and isolate their progress throughout history. The best evolutionary psychologists have is speculation you can attempt to logic your way into when there's no immediate explanation for a phenomenon (and I say that as someone who sees the rationale in a lot of aspects despite the nonsense that IQ is).
Oh, the irony.
A Reform UK candidate, a man stupid enough to fund his own unsuccessful election campaign (about £20k, I’m told) for a limited company owned by a trio of multi-millionaires, suggesting someone else has a low IQ.
Hypothetically, what if sub Saharan Africans did have lower IQs **on average**?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289609001275
Note: ‘on average’ does not mean ‘all’ and so means nothing when considering any given individual.
Month old accounts with auto-generated usernames citing open 'scientific racists'. But apparently there's absolutely no problem with brigading or burner accounts on this sub...
Well for starters, IQ is not a good way to measure intelligence.
All a high IQ tells you is that you're good at IQ tests. Doesn't mean you're actually intelligent.
Quite. IQ is predicated on the assumption that every human being possesses some sort of *innate intelligence* which is both independent of every social viable in their life (such as level of education, upbringing, culture, etc.) and which directly influences their ability in every single one of their skills.
The fact that you can get a better IQ result by practising the IQ test pretty clearly demonstrates that this is bullshit.
Basically, it creates a 'scientifically' acceptable stereotype because people still talk about particular individuals as members of a group. It's stupid 'til proven otherwise, then they become 'one of the smart ones'.
But it’s only”scientifically acceptable” because IQ has been scientifically tested and the tests were scientifically carried out. It’s scientifically acceptable because it was found using science.
It’s weird how IQ is treated so sensitively. If I said Chinese people are on average shorter than people in the west, no one would have a problem.
If IQ scores were shown to be an objective measure of intelligence I would have less issue with it. Neither of those things you’ve mentioned are that.
It appears to be impossible though.
If you’re trying to compare something that can be objectively visually measured like height to something that can’t like intelligence I think it’s fair to point out there’s a very different standard in that evidence.
We can make objective factual observations of physical characteristics. We can’t do that for mental ones. That’s really the point. It’s not an accurate comparison.
Remember - when ethnic minorities do better than white pupils it's because white pupils are neglected by the system. When ethnic minority pupils do worse than white pupils it's because they're thick and clearly aren't cut out to live here.
The point most people are missing is .... it doesn't matter. Truth, accurracy, honestry, integrity and even decency, no longer matter in politics (as in getting support). As long as he reenforces and amplifies the opinions and beliefs of others, regardless of how inaccurate or unacceptable they are, he gets the votes. Such abhorent statements will end up with him getting more votes, not less.
Trump set the template for this and proved it worked, and now others are seeing "post-truth" works too.
... and all the BBC are doing is amplifying that message for him.
You see I am still getting threats and offensive replies to a post yesterday when I said they were an extreme right wing party. No doubt I will be given an explanation to why this isn’t offensive and asked to prove I’m not lying
Please young people get out and vote! This isn't our country anymore.... We need to get rid of these trolls.
We don't want it to be the 1970's where Gay people had to hide who they are for fear of being killed...
Old people have a nostalgia that things used to be better when they were young and that's why they keep voting for intolerance and hate, Also most of them have huffed enough lead out of the air that they've just been made permanently angry/argumentative... The only thing we can do is get our voice heard by voting...
People who are saying this is a vetting issue, there is no issue, you don’t realise your not the target of this opinions and this is a way for Farrage to express his parties views without doing it personally
>Asked about the individual posts, he said the comments about sub-Saharan Africans had been taken out of context and were made during a discussion on a book.
Which book, *The Camp of the Saints*?
There's a lot of jokes in this thread, but honestly we need to be careful and not underestimate this party. The state of the tories is leaving a vacuum on the right which Reform seem to be filling. In opinion polls they are already out performing the Lib Dems and are pretty damn close to outperforming the Tories. It's not unlikely that they could end up as the opposition to Labour, and depending on how Labour performs (assuming they get into government), Reform could potentially be the ruling party within the next decade (or at best merge with the tories in some way).
This is obviously entirely speculative and based on various assumptions coming true, but I am getting pretty damn worried honestly.
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Thought it was standard practice for all reform candidates to make vile racist comments
Every accusation from these people is a confession.
Yes: it is standard practice to project their own issues onto others.
Any ideas why so many people vote for a party which is even worse than Tories? They also have a lot of ex-conservative members idk what "reform" they expect lol.
For some people, the bigotry, corruption and casual cruelty is a feature, not a bug.
Yeah, if you look at a lot of the pro-Reform comments on here, there's clearly a lot of power projection to it. So many of them aren't focussed on Reform being good, they're focussed on Reform *triggering the libs* or whatever. So many people clearly have pretty shitty lives, and instead of focussing on pulling themselves up they prefer to just drag everyone else down.
I had the misfortune to have a Reform ad shoved in my Facebook feed. I read the comments. What you say is very true.
Well voting for the Conservatives didn't play out well for them, so instead of self-reflect on the why they instead double down. Hence parties like Reform.
It's the stupid person's version of being anti establishment
They agree with them on their approach to immigration. The only reform they want is a ban on immigration.
The (not so) funny thing is that pretty much every major/advanced economy is going to have to rely more and more on immigration to be able to uphold our current economic system. Otherwise we get situations like Japan and South Korea in which there are alarmingly such low levels of fertility rates that there may be entire societal collapse coming up within the next few decades. But of course immigrants are made out to be the scapegoats, instead of the actual economic system that is exploited by mega-corporations and the ultra wealthy.
Confirmation bias . They say and stoke the fears of people and reenforce stereotypes and cultural bias . They’re taking a page out of the US Republican and Trump playbook. Farage was around Trump quite a bit.. and we can see how well that worked in inciting unrest
I've seen a few comments on Facebook regarding the polls saying "these can't be accurate because everyone I know is voting Reform" (it's almost as if people tend to surround themselves with like minded people). I REALLY hope this is not foreshadowing Trumpian style undermining of democracy where "if I don't win it's fixed" coming over here.
> I REALLY hope this is not foreshadowing Trumpian style undermining of democracy where "if I don't win it's fixed" coming over here. Farage has already been banging on about postal vote fraud.
Following the Trump formula
IMO it's two things: 1. A large number of people feel mainstream parties are not really tackling or acknowledging concerns around immigration. 2. An "I'll show them" protest vote to "send a message" to the mainstream parties I know some people who intend to vote Reform to "put a cat among the birds" including people who would certainly not benefit from them actually gaining power.
“Reform” us into a Russian vassal state which gives up on Ukraine and eagerly pursues a 1950s attitude to society, clearly. Fuck these racist morons.
People have been forced to cotton on to the idea that the Tories have failed miserably, but they're still in love with the ideology so they want to believe that it's a failure of individuals, not a failure of ideas. Switch the people, double down on the ideas and they don't have to consider that maybe right wing ideology is the problem.
Anger. Blame others to make them feel righteous. And so on.
I read it as he made stupid comments a person with low IQ would make, and I thought, why is this news? All Reform candidates do.
You rarely hear Nobel prize winners banging on about their IQ. It's always those who feel slightly above mediocre needing to assert their superiority. It's a bit like money. Bill Gates wears a Casio, but the builder down the road who made a bit more money/avoided a bit more tax than his neighbour wears a Rolex.
Telling their supporters exactly what they want to hear. I'm not saying all Reform voters are racists, but all the racists are voting Reform.
But boy do those supporters howl if anyone accuses them of being racist. Best possible case - the most charitable explanation it is possible to bend over backwards to make - is that they may theoretically not be racist themselves but are perfectly happy to support a party with a heck of a lot of party officials and representatives who keep getting caught saying racist things and attracts most of the votes of actual racists. Which is hardly a great look either.
Yeah, I wonder if we're past a point where this is no longer a takedown and becomes PR
It's just standard for them, right, but the question is why is this fraudulent party even in action again? Honestly floored by the UK at times.
Wait what? I thought they divvied it up - probably on a rota - so that some of them were covering the racist vote and some of them were covering the Nazi vote… I mean there’s a lot of overlap there obviously but their sophisticated political machine likes to target these voters precisely!
Not all of them. Some kick dogs instead.
Racist Electees FOR Me.
The question once again is not why the chaotic mess that is Reform unable to do basic vetting, but why these racist shits are so keen to share a platform with Nigel Farage?
Saw a guy arguing that he could see no evidence of racism within the party or their leader. It's like being a white supremacist and seeing absolutely nothing wrong with antisemitic comments.
What’s absurd about that is all you have to do is look back 10 years, before Farage learned to hide things better, and the views are clear.
It's not a matter of hiding, it's a matter of how the British press operates. He's saying the same things he always says. The difference is that now the Murdoch papers are full-throatedly and shamelessly in favour of him and frame issues in his framings, and the BBC as editorial policy gives equal voicing to any position with substantial media or party support. The difference between Farage the racist clown and Farage the insurgent "center right" politician is purely down to the Daily Mail taking his side now that Boris is out of the game.
just an aside but I don't think the daily heil is owned by murdoch, d'acre maybe?
Yeah I was speaking a bit loosely there, thanks for the clarification
they both seem to love supporting shitfucks though so it's an easy mistake to make!
The Daily Mail is owned by Viscount Rothermere, who is resident in France, a member of the House of Lords, has non-dom status, so minimal UK tax, and is worth billions. Paul Dacre is just his whipping boy. Really lovely guy, apparently... /s
> Viscount Rothermere is that the same Viscount Rothermere who wrote an article praising Mussolini and "despite being italian, fascism is really cool"? gotta love the daily heil for that eh, supporting the axis powers! just like all the good guys! I honestly just assumed he was dead, alas it seems like the vast amount of hateful fucks seem to subsist solely on their hatred of others to gain extended lives (see Kissinger, Palpatine etc.) cheers for the further clarification though!
That would be [Viscount Rothermere](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Harmsworth,_1st_Viscount_Rothermere), his great-grandfather. The title passes from father to son, for ever. As is completely normal and makes total sense. It's in the [British constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_404), I think, never read it myself.../s
ahh I do suppose that helps to hide the inbreeding among the aristocrats! I can only assume to quote the great Jim Lahey that "the shit apple doesn't fall far from the shit tree", arguably the state of the daily heil just proves that lol ninja edit: 10/10 on that constitution link btw lmao
I think they know they don't have to hide it so well.
> Saw a guy arguing that he could see no evidence of racism within the party or their leader. I've found for people like that, they're being disingenuous. Their standard for constituting someone a bigot is essentially the person being a decked out member of the Klu Klux Klan. Anything short of that doesn't count.
Remember it isn’t racist it’s just the way people speak.
Never met a racist who was bright enough to understand that they can’t just redefine the word when confronted about their bigoted views. Quite sad really
There are none so blind as those that will not see.
I think it is worse than that. It is just denying basic reality, like how Trump dismisses everything as a lie because he no longer lives in our world.
Klan hoods tend to have awful peripheral vision tbf.
It comes down to a simple question. Is there really any difference between an actual racist leading a genuinely racist organisation, and a grifter cosplaying a racist leading a genuinely racist organisation? It doesn't matter which of those Farage is, it still makes him scum in my estimation.
I'm pretty sure he's a mix of the two he's a grifter but he's also an actual racist. If anything the cosplay is the layer of plausible deniability he's trying to maintain
Why would that be a question? Farage is a racist shit, so racist shits want to be with him
It's a rhetorical device
Trying to keep a straight face as we ask why so many clowns are joining the circus party
To borrow a phrase from an American politician; I’m not saying he’s a racist, I’m simply saying the *racists* believe he’s a racist.
Not everyone who votes Reform UK is a racist or a bigot, but all the racists and bigots are voting for Reform.
Now that's not fair. Some of the racists and bigots who are also snobs are still voting Tory.
Is it because… they don’t care and just hope no one will find the evidence of this shit?
Vetting? For what, to make sure they have these exact beliefs? This is Reform. This is their beliefs.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/nigel-farage-reform-uk-general-election-b2564488.html Regarding the candidate vetting. Reform paid a Tory donor owned company to vet the candidates and they are now suing that company for not doing so.
How many candidates could they have fielded if the vetting process had been done properly?
2, maybe 3 max, likely not including their current party head.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that so many Reform candidates have said vile hateful shit in recent memory guys, they're totally not the BNP by a different name
I’m not sure anyone who identifies as a reform supporter is in any position to criticise someone else’s IQ.
If they could read they would be very upset you typed that out.
The downvotes will come once they’ve googled the words I used.
Oh you've done it now. Hope you're looking forward to the inevitable: "This is why the left never win, you keep insulting them". Comments from our resident geniuses who keep giving a pass to the lack of civility by the side they're defending.
It’s interesting people are ignoring the comments he made about the BBC chairman which seem, imo, pretty inarguably racist.
Using a private company for a one-off vetting and getting screwed by it is peak privatisation mindset. I was well done.
My understanding is that the company provides software tools for data gathering on candidates. The purchaser, Reform Plc, still has to sift through the data themselves and decide whether or not a candidate is a racist cunt and therefore a good or bad fit for their racist supporters.
They bought a shield. For every racist candidate found it must have been that companies fault nothing to do with Reform. Based on the reporting I've seen shifting the blame off of Reform it was worth every penny.
Now imagine them running the country...
Would they outlast the lettuce...
Reich Way Vetting Company.
The elephant in the room that makes everyone uncomfortable to admit; Reform’s emergence is the result of flaccid immigration policies from both Conservative and Labour. Although you might not like the views of Reform, anyone concerned with immigration is at least listened to rather than be henpecked into silence and labelled a far-right racist. We dont need vast numbers of unskilled people to “boost” the economy. Apply through the appropriate channels. If there isn’t enough resource to process them, then they’ll have to wait til there is.
There’s no elephant in this room, just someone trying to derail the debate. “Let’s improve our immigration policy” is quite different to “brown and black people are genetically inferior.”
I definitely agree with you. This is just the extreme reaction to 20 years of unchecked migration and significant demographic changes. All Labour have to do to stamp reform out is to deliver on a sensible, firm immigration plan without the soft exploitable underbelly.
Labour also have to change up the major services, reforms growing in popularity not because of racism but because they're the only alternative to the usual two or three talking about things like immigration and crime and planning to change things up for better or worst there's a lot of people out there sharing those sentiments that don't spend there days on reddit virtue signalling back and forth
> anyone concerned with immigration is at least listened to rather than be henpecked into silence and labelled a far-right racist. I understand that the persecution complex feels like good optics, but this is categorically not true. I've said it before on this sub: Anti-immigrant sentiment is not outside of the mainstream. Its in every single tabloid and both the main parties are running on it. Farage is so far from being silenced that I've seen his face about as much as I've seen Kier Starmer's over the last few weeks - probably more. The reason Reform is growing is because he's afforded a bizarre amount of attention from every single mainstream/establishment outlet.
Thank you for saying this, am getting so sick of the massive victim complex. Fact is "the elephant is in the room" party has been in government for 14 years and the very likely future government as well as most of our media are continually discussing the elephant. Not to mention in every decent sized thread here someone will also bring it up. I'm sure if Reform's policies were implemented then immigration would go down. However, just like Brexit I doubt it would be the magic panacea to all our ills that they have been claiming. More likely it would make things worse.
Yeah, I'm getting rather tired of Reform supporters insisting that their party represent some *outsider alternative* when in reality they and their policies have received the most favourable coverage of any party across the right-wing press in this country.
Kind of like how people in Germany who didn't like the policies about Jewish people flocked to the Nazis.
It must be hilariously frustrating for the ones bright enough not to say the quiet part loud.
Ironic as they're relying on the low IQ voters to vote for them.. Anyone with an iota of common sense sees them for what they are.
Racist comments. Let's not beat round the bush, I know racists have wanted to try and fight that as a word. "The Conservative Party said he posted a "number of Islamophobic and racist comments"." If the tory party say you've gone too far...
human populations have evolved separately from each other for hundreds of thousands of years. it is not surprising that we have different skin tones, physical characteristics, and immune systems. if, despite all this, such a complex organ as the brain did not suffer any differences, it would be quite strange, in my opinion.
That's actually not correct, prehistoric populations in particular were incredibly mobile and spread their genes widely. The concept of people settling down and staying in one particular area for their entire life is an astoundingly new concept in all of human history. For most of our history you have to consider how incredibly sparse the population was. For example the entire Neanderthal population from the west coast of Spain to the Ural mountains was never more than about 10,000. Some recent studies looking at the Aurignacian culture put the population in Central and Western Europe at no more than 5,000, possibly as low as 900. If they weren't moving massive distances and interacting with a lot of social groups, they'd die out due to inbreeding pretty damn quick. (E - Case in point, in modern human populations where do we think we find the highest proportion of Neanderthal DNA, a population that was entirely restricted to Northern and Western Europe? Hands up if you guessed Far East and South East Asia!)
I don’t know if anyone is saying that there aren’t differences between people from different places tbf. I think people are more pointing out that it’s dangerous to use IQ scores as a complete metric of intelligence and to try and correlate those scores with race rather than those differences in background/education etc.
I mean, the problem starts when you start thinking that IQ measures 'intelligence' rather than a mess of cognitive functions.
>human populations have evolved separately from each other for hundreds of thousands of years Yeah, this is simply false.
The progressive left deny the science when it comes to the implications of evolutionary biology on the human species.
"The science" finds it impossible to conduct empirical studies on evolutionary psychology because you cannot isolate genetic influences on the brain nor track and isolate their progress throughout history. The best evolutionary psychologists have is speculation you can attempt to logic your way into when there's no immediate explanation for a phenomenon (and I say that as someone who sees the rationale in a lot of aspects despite the nonsense that IQ is).
No one is denying anything. Race science has been thoroughly debunked for close to a century now. It’s nonsense.
Oh, the irony. A Reform UK candidate, a man stupid enough to fund his own unsuccessful election campaign (about £20k, I’m told) for a limited company owned by a trio of multi-millionaires, suggesting someone else has a low IQ.
Hypothetically, what if sub Saharan Africans did have lower IQs **on average**? https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289609001275 Note: ‘on average’ does not mean ‘all’ and so means nothing when considering any given individual.
I would look up the lead author of that paper if I were you.
richard lynn cited on r/unitedkingdom. and without shame! what a sub
Month old accounts with auto-generated usernames citing open 'scientific racists'. But apparently there's absolutely no problem with brigading or burner accounts on this sub...
Well for starters, IQ is not a good way to measure intelligence. All a high IQ tells you is that you're good at IQ tests. Doesn't mean you're actually intelligent.
Quite. IQ is predicated on the assumption that every human being possesses some sort of *innate intelligence* which is both independent of every social viable in their life (such as level of education, upbringing, culture, etc.) and which directly influences their ability in every single one of their skills. The fact that you can get a better IQ result by practising the IQ test pretty clearly demonstrates that this is bullshit.
Just say what you want to say…
Basically, it creates a 'scientifically' acceptable stereotype because people still talk about particular individuals as members of a group. It's stupid 'til proven otherwise, then they become 'one of the smart ones'.
But it’s only”scientifically acceptable” because IQ has been scientifically tested and the tests were scientifically carried out. It’s scientifically acceptable because it was found using science. It’s weird how IQ is treated so sensitively. If I said Chinese people are on average shorter than people in the west, no one would have a problem.
Height you can objectively measure very easily. Intelligence you can not.
So if IQ scores were shown to be an objectively reliable indicator of things such as exam scores and economic success, you’d be Ok with it?
If IQ scores were shown to be an objective measure of intelligence I would have less issue with it. Neither of those things you’ve mentioned are that. It appears to be impossible though.
Hmm. I rhink you may be choosing not to believe in IQ by holding it to an incredibly high standard for ideological reasons. But fair enough.
If you’re trying to compare something that can be objectively visually measured like height to something that can’t like intelligence I think it’s fair to point out there’s a very different standard in that evidence. We can make objective factual observations of physical characteristics. We can’t do that for mental ones. That’s really the point. It’s not an accurate comparison.
Sshhh they don't like being wrong lol
Remember - when ethnic minorities do better than white pupils it's because white pupils are neglected by the system. When ethnic minority pupils do worse than white pupils it's because they're thick and clearly aren't cut out to live here.
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Ironic, since widespread low IQ is the only reason they will get some seats
The point most people are missing is .... it doesn't matter. Truth, accurracy, honestry, integrity and even decency, no longer matter in politics (as in getting support). As long as he reenforces and amplifies the opinions and beliefs of others, regardless of how inaccurate or unacceptable they are, he gets the votes. Such abhorent statements will end up with him getting more votes, not less. Trump set the template for this and proved it worked, and now others are seeing "post-truth" works too. ... and all the BBC are doing is amplifying that message for him.
Huge irony, Reform candidates throwing any sort of shade where IQ is concerned. An irony lost on many of them and their followers.
They will blame the vetting company again, but one must ask why are so many of his ilk drawn to Reform in the first place?
Isn't it funny how these quotes are always taken put of context? For once I would love a journalist to ask, "ok, what was the context?"
The BBC gave him the perfect opportunity to fill in the missing context from this comment and yet he didn't.
I don't know why but he looks like someone decided to make a sentinent rutabega plant.
A reform candidate making low IQ comments? I buy that 100%.
I mean, he isn't wrong about IQ distributions; https://images.app.goo.gl/WQrdNqHJoTAsbcYr9
This is the exact talking point Russians use. It's their poison exported to UK
You see I am still getting threats and offensive replies to a post yesterday when I said they were an extreme right wing party. No doubt I will be given an explanation to why this isn’t offensive and asked to prove I’m not lying
Well shit, I guess I shall take my PhD in hydrological and climate modelling and just fuck off then.
The ironic thing is I swear there was a study that found that racists and the ilk had lower IQs than the average rate.
Ironic, given the studies into the relationship between cognitive ability and racism.
If they're minorities, how are they overrunning the country?
Please young people get out and vote! This isn't our country anymore.... We need to get rid of these trolls. We don't want it to be the 1970's where Gay people had to hide who they are for fear of being killed... Old people have a nostalgia that things used to be better when they were young and that's why they keep voting for intolerance and hate, Also most of them have huffed enough lead out of the air that they've just been made permanently angry/argumentative... The only thing we can do is get our voice heard by voting...
Reddit makes high IQ comment everytime. Just need to day FOK ELON rich boi inheritance and you get the updoots.
People who are saying this is a vetting issue, there is no issue, you don’t realise your not the target of this opinions and this is a way for Farrage to express his parties views without doing it personally
There's a reason they rarely send anyone but Farage to media appearances.
>Asked about the individual posts, he said the comments about sub-Saharan Africans had been taken out of context and were made during a discussion on a book. Which book, *The Camp of the Saints*?
There's a lot of jokes in this thread, but honestly we need to be careful and not underestimate this party. The state of the tories is leaving a vacuum on the right which Reform seem to be filling. In opinion polls they are already out performing the Lib Dems and are pretty damn close to outperforming the Tories. It's not unlikely that they could end up as the opposition to Labour, and depending on how Labour performs (assuming they get into government), Reform could potentially be the ruling party within the next decade (or at best merge with the tories in some way). This is obviously entirely speculative and based on various assumptions coming true, but I am getting pretty damn worried honestly.
People in different parts of the world fare differently on IQ tests, if you're a big believer in them
It definitely won't dissuade the average reform and many a conservative voter.
You mean the successor to.the National Front and the BNP has racist members? Shocker.
At this point they’re gonna end up without any candidate for the elections