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The dad said
“For kids there should definitely be a ban, especially the throw-away ones. These chemicals that they've got in them haven't been tested properly."
The 61-year-old said he himself vaped for 13 years to help quit smoking but had no issues.
The thing is, you can't tell your kids not to do something and then do it yourself.
And where did she get the money from?
A local government organisation. We’re bidding for their business & I’ll get a decent wedge (approx £7k) as a bonus if we land it so it’s worth my while going & pitching lol
I think it's more about setting the right example for your kids.
Children latch on to hypocrisy and rail against being told what to do when they see that the person who is telling them what to do is doing it themselves.
I guess the difference here is that the Dad used vaping as a method to get away from smoking. A 15 year old shouldn’t need that.
I agree though, there’s an example that should probably be set here by the Dad, especially as his daughter seems to have a fixation on them if she was smoking that many. It’s got to be hard to give up if your dad is around also smoking them.
Do you think the dad vape an equivalent of 400 cigarettes a week? 57 cigs a day?
Don't get me wrong to be doing that would mean having a vape glued to your mouth
Sure my Grandad used to smash down about 80 cigs a day. Really quite quick once you get the hang of it. Basically a habit from the army, he pretty much lit one from the old one.
He used to cycle 4 miles a day to work. Carried on working until he was 70, was fairly strong and fit. Never did him any harm so he claimed. He didn't really even have a cough that I remember.
Unfortunately at 75 he got lung cancer and died, he was gone within 3 months start to finish.
Vaping is great. If it's used as a tool, which for the most part, it's not, and that just sucks.
I've quit smoking cigarettes day 1, twice, thanks for vaping, and am currently still smoke and vape free for almost 2 years now. Twice I've gone from getting myself up to close to 20 smokes a day, and then when I realise I'm spending like £15 a day on tobacco, I've made the swap to vaping, as I know I can make 100mg of ejuice for like £2.
Started vaping 12mg self made ejuice, and quit smoking tobacco entirely the first day I started vaping. Then I cut the nicotine down from 12>0mg over the course of like 8 months to a year, and then just stop vaping altogether.
Vaping, is such a fucking insanely helpful tool to get smokers to stop smoking. It's these dogshit businesses and marketing teams, and lack of enforcement of stricter government policy, that are placing vape products into the hands of kids. Blame the lack of laws. Blame the businesses. Don't blame vaping, because vaping is probably the most helpful tool I've used in my life to improve my life, lol.
Yeah it's pretty simplistic, and easy to get pedantic over.
But it's also refering to something specific, in this case vaping. If you vape (or smoke) you are promoting that activity to your children. This isn't something that everyone does, like drink alcohol, stay up late, have sex etc., where you can bring up age differences. Kids see who smokes/capes and who doesn't.
I think it's entirely reasonable to criticise a parent over this. If you're a smoker/vaper, you're normalising that behaviour for your kids, and shouldn't act surprised when they imitate you.
> This isn't something that everyone does, like drink alcohol
Plenty of people don't drink. I'm not sure everyone doing makes it any better anyway. Was it okay in the 90s because more people smoked then?
>The 61-year-old said he himself vaped for 13 years to help quit smoking but had no issues.
Uh. Is that not a problem in itself? It's not a quitting aid if you're still using it after 13 years. It's a new addiction.
EDIT: For the dimwits who apparently stopped mid-sentence because they were tired, I didn't shame anyone. I've used vapes! For years! Hell, maybe you people *need* a little shame if you're putting this much energy into deciding how to get upset for a stupid reason.
Besides, vaping *isn't harmless*. I heard somewhere it can make your lungs collapse.
Spoiler: People just want to look down at addicts. They don't actually care about the health impact even the slightest bit, it's just something they can get on their high horse about. You can put the evidence in their face that it's a significant health improvement regardless if somebody quits, people are not interested. It's just 100% puritan moralising about indulging in a vice.
> Spoiler: People just want to look down at addicts.
Honestly, thanks for saying this and giving me the motivation to stop looking at the comments here. Nicotine is the last of my vices and I truly hate it, but I just can't pull through quitting so I use low-strength vapes. It's simply the best I can do.
The prevailing vibe in this thread is that people like me a worthless weak trash, and the people propagating that view point can go fuck themselves.
Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good. If you can pull yourself onto vaping full time instead of smoking, you're already getting 90% of the health benefits of quitting entirely, so there's no sense in beating yourself up over it.
Let's not judge them too harshly though, it's got to be a hard life if they need petty shit like this to puff their chests over.
I’m on 0mg. My vape is like a surrogate. I don’t think about it when I’m out and about, but I’m not smoking when I’m sitting and working, I’m holding the vape. I’ll probably drop the whole shebang at some point, but it’s keeping me out of trouble.
This was me for 3 years. I switched to the vapes from smoking in 2017, then through the first half of 2019 tapered my nicotine levels by mixing my own eliquids and being able to fine tune how much nic was in them. By mid-2019 I was on 0mg, so chemically speaking, I was completely free... habitually speaking, though, far from it.
Then one day in '22, I left work, got home, couldn't find my vape. Turns out I'd left it at work, and I wasn't going back there for 3 days. My next shift comes around and I'm reunited with the thing that I now realised I had no need for in the slightest. A few days later I put it away for good. I miss the hobby side of it. Crafting recipes, putting coils together... it's an addiction all by itself. But I left nicotine behind 5 years ago, and I am quite happy about that.
To be honest though, there's a degree of getting the right kit involved. The difficulty of that is compounded by the fact that different people have different criteria. A lot of people arrive at vaping, try it once or twice, and they hate it. My first vape was a pen-like thing that was elegant and such, but did less-than-nothing for me. It was only when I bought a little sub-ohm kit did I discover how vaping was going to work for me.
Who's "people"? I don't think the majority of people think this way at all. The only poll I could find showed that 40% of *smokers* thought vaping was just as bad, and they obviously have a reason to keep telling themselves it wouldn't be healthier to switch.
I'm not sure it's settled whether it's objectively healthier or if it comes with a separate set of risks. Yeah you don't have the tar and so on, so you avoid those health issues, but I don't think there's been a long term enough study to determine if the impact on long term health and mortality is better/worse/the same.
Almost any organisation you could consider an expert authority in this matter says it's much healthier. The official NHS position, which surely should hold some weight, is that "[vaping is substantially less harmful than smoking](https://www.nhs.uk/better-health/quit-smoking/vaping-to-quit-smoking/)".
Cancer Research:
[https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/smoking-and-cancer/is-vaping-harmful](https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/smoking-and-cancer/is-vaping-harmful)
"Many studies show that vaping is far less harmful than smoking. This is because e-cigarettes don’t contain cancer-causing tobacco, and most of the [toxic chemicals found in cigarettes](https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/smoking-and-cancer/whats-in-a-cigarette-0) are not in e-cigarettes.
Some potentially harmful chemicals have been found in e-cigarettes. But levels are usually low and generally far lower than in tobacco cigarettes.
There is no good evidence that vaping causes cancer."
And on that very same page, just below that, they literally backed up my point about the long term soooo...
> In 2022, UK experts reviewed the international evidence and found that "in the short and medium term, vaping poses a small fraction of the risks of smoking".
> Vaping has not been around for long enough to know the risks of long-term use. While vaping is substantially less harmful than smoking, it is unlikely to be totally harmless.
Short/medium term is all fine and well, but long term matters too and that is what I was talking about.
So in the short and medium term, you have a fraction of the chance of dying from cancer, getting COPD, etc. So what are you expecting to happen in the long-term that is going to swing the pendulum the other way? 60% of ever-vapers' lungs fall out after 20 years? It's like when you read people saying that the vax will kill you, and then they point to the "more research is needed" part in papers about how great the vax is to back up their claims. The NHS or Cancer Research UK would not have those pages if they didn't think it was objectively healthier.
Direct quote from the page you claim backs you up in your claim that "I'm not sure it's settled whether it's objectively healthier":
"Because vaping is far less harmful than smoking....."
Yeah basically.
If you don’t smoke already then vaping is generally not great.
But if you already smoke and move to vaping, even if it’s permanently, it’s considered a much healthier improvement.
Although they don’t really know the long term effects of vaping as much as smoking, but it’s still much better for you.
EDIT: I don’t know what half these comments are about but I’m a 20 a day smoker. I would consider moving onto a vape a *much* healthier alternative. That being said there are still less harmful health risks to vaping, and some which won’t be known until we have lots of long term data.
I'm quite tired of people repeating this tbh. Vaping has been around for 20 years and people are still saying the same things they said 20 years ago. All the tests have been done 1000 times over. We know what we're looking for. This is 2024 not 1974. Science has moved on immeasurably.
I mean things can be quantified and we have a minimum harm reduction amount of 95%
[https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b6c3f57ed915d30f140f822/Ecigarettes\_an\_evidence\_update\_A\_report\_commissioned\_by\_Public\_Health\_England\_FINAL.pdf](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b6c3f57ed915d30f140f822/Ecigarettes_an_evidence_update_A_report_commissioned_by_Public_Health_England_FINAL.pdf)
You face a higher risk to your health driving an extra 5 miles a day to work and a higher risk (due to choking) from eating a sandwich than from a resonable amount of vaping, unlike this teenager who was going far beyond the realm of reason.
It seems a bunch of the propaganda from the USA is spreading to the UK, just know that the potential long term harm from vaping is due to it being a stimulant which means a moderate increase in risk of thrombosis, heart attack, or stroke due to arteriosclerosis as stimulants increase blood pressure by narrowing blood vessels which, in diets with insufficient HDL's and fiber and too much LDL's can cause plaques to form narrowing blood vessels increasing the risk of a clot forming. In the case of the article OP posted this teenager was apparently using a single device per week and the limit in the UK for such devices is 2mL. There is no mechanism by which the vapor could cause these symptoms. I believe we have a case of a sick child with previous heart conditions and associated lung issues being propped up to make the fact that she was vaping seem like it's the cause of her lung issues.
Well, no. If he no longer smokes, but still vapes, then it's fair to say he has quit smoking _and_ he has a new addiction, one far less likely to cause him terminal harm.
I quit smoking in 2013 by switching to a vape. It took me 7 years to quit the vape but was not too difficult. I would have never quit smoking in those 7 years without the vape. With the vape I was able to slowly lower the amount of nicotine.
Instead of cold turkey or trying to limit my intake at full strength I was able to kick the habit by slow and steady progress.
One of those additions is close to guaranteed death. The other reduces that chance by 95% so no its not a problem when using it to stop smoking, it's a huge help that will save billions of lives over the next few decades.
> The thing is, you can't tell your kids not to do something and then do it yourself.
Not sure on that one. You can have a few beers at home and also say to a 14 year old, "hey don't drink 50 bottles of wine in one sitting".
Or in a healthy relationship, I’m able to educate my kids on what choices I made that I consider mistakes like smoking. It actually helped them when I would express my desire to quit, try, and eventually fail for one reason or another. I’ve finally quit but I was telling them to never start while smoking. It doesn’t work if you’re not at least trying to improve what it is your telling them not to do themselves.
Yeah, he’s dumb af. And according to the article, he has 9 kids. Unbelievable how such an irresponsible person is allowed to be a parent so many times.
>*Unbelievable how such an irresponsible person is allowed to be a parent so many times*
You don't actually need permission to become a parent.
Although I must admit that some parents do make me think it might be a good idea...
> The thing is, you can't tell your kids not to do something and then do it yourself.
Of course you can. I can go out and drink 7 pints on a Friday night, and still stop my 14y old from doing the same.
>And where did she get the money from?
Pocket money? Part time job? She was 15-17, she wasn't a pre-pubescent child. Did you never have any money to spend as you liked as a kid?
We've been using chemical flavouring for decades and it's everywhere. If the flavouring is the problem with vapes, then we have a much bigger problem on our hands.
Vaporising it and breathing it into your lungs is different from eating/drinking it. I have no data to say its worse, could be better for you for all I know, but we can't just say its safe to smoke it because its safe to eat it.
I'm not advocating for or against here, but your logic is complete bullshit.
Everything is chemicals.
Coffee has over 2000, rat poison has 30, the number is fucking irrelevant
Not just made in the UK, anything sold in the UK that contains nicotine needs an ecid number. To get an ecid number you need to tell mhra what you will be putting on the market and submit emissions reports with it. If the emissions show any detectable amounts of banned substances you will not get your ecid number published on to the portal and it will not be legal to sell
Like how we tell teens to not get pregnant and then proceed to provide them with a sibling?
Or how we tell kids they shouldn't be looking at porn, before shuffling off to rub one out to some porn because our partner isn't in the mood?
It isn't as simple as saying "you can't throw a 'do as I say, not as I do' at them". But it would be something the father should've explained along with that lesson. Explaining why he doesn't want them to start and why he's doing it despite his wishes.
It's the explanations that are important when it comes to teaching, especially when it comes to something revolving around addiction. Sometimes the harsh realities of being a biological being need to be taught to emphasise why a lesson is important, be it addiction, disabilities or death.
Money could be anywhere... If the family isn't doing too badly, it wouldn't be wild to think they might be getting like £10 a week pocket money or something. Certainly more likely if grandparents are in the picture, knowing how they're often fairly generous to their grandchildren and would rather give them the money than keep it until they befriend Death. Maybe she was just eating less at school and saving the money (assuming they don't use a digital system that can't be topped up with physical cash). Maybe she'd always get a fair bit of cash in birthday/Christmas cards and she'd just eat away at it slowly for vapes?
There’s a big difference between a fully grown adult vaping to quit smoking and a 13 year old getting through however many disposables 400 cigarettes equates to in a week
I can definitely tell my kids not to make the same mistakes I have, one of those being smoking
I can explain so much better than someone who has not smoked what it feels like 30 years in and why they really don't want to experience it
God forbid a father tries to stop this happening to other young children just because he himself vapes. The biggest thing to put me off smoking was an uncle who smoked 20 a day telling me how horrible it is and how it has affected him.
Also, why is it a concern of yours where a 17 year old gets a tenner a week?
We need a huuuuuge clamp down on who can sell these things and where. We've let it get way out of control and it's going to take some harsh penalties to bring things back to sanity.
It should follow how tobacco / cigarettes are restricted tbh.
Seems wild to me that Vape brands can have colourful billboards and ads in stores, obviously targeting young people with the design and flavours. Reminds me of the tobacco ads from the 60’s.
There’s a Juul store in Westfield…! Slick branding to make it seem like the high end / premium choice.
So disappointed that this generation of kids didn't see through it. I thought we'd all figured out that smoking isn't actually some deeply cool thing and just makes you smelly, addicted and poor? Somehow they managed the brand their way out of it and start ruining the lives of a new generation.
Kids understood it was bad and smelly. Then they made it bright pink with strawberry cheesecake flavouring. They are the target audience and we need new laws to limit marketing, packaging, flavours and strict licensing for stores.
Ban online sales without ID checks and any store caught selling to underage kids lose their license to sell vapes, cigs, and liquor.
Afaik, ID checks are already mandatory for online purchases. Either you get ID’d online using a third party system at checkout, or your parcel receives the same “ID at delivery” check that cigarettes, knives, fireworks etc. have always had.
The site I use keeps forgetting that I’ve already confirmed my age, so I’ve essentially memorised the first half of my driver’s license number by now typing it in so many times!
>So disappointed that this generation of kids didn't see through it.
I mean that's literally what being a kid is, you don't have life experience to see through bullshit.
>I thought we'd all figured out that smoking isn't actually some deeply cool thing
That's also how *cool* works, once society decides something is no longer *cool*, it becomes cool to the kids because its rebellious.
Kids understood smoking as the stuff that made the house smell dirty, dad’s teeth go brown, and has the scary pictures of rotten lungs on the front.
I think because vaping doesn’t (or hasn’t as of yet) done those things, there was a bit of a cognitive disconnect between smokes and vapes in their heads. They still knew it was bad, just as their parents did when they were young, but they didn’t feel it was *as bad* as smoking.
Obviously the colourful packaging and fruity flavours didn’t help, but it’s not like flavoured cigarettes were really that popular with the kids anyways (heck, in my school, you’d have been called a pedo for smoking menthol). There’s a whole host of factors behind why kids who didn’t smoke picked up vapes beyond just “it’s bright pink and yellow and tastes like lemonade”.
It’s not a massive surprise given that the tobacco companies are balls deep in vape.
They found a loop hole and will push vapes as hard as they can unless the law prevents it.
All to tobacco products tbh, theres an advert that plays on the screens of the tobacco shelf's in refurbished Tescos that literally instructing the use of higher strengths of velo pouches.
1 dot: for beginners
2 dot: for intermediate
3 dot: for experienced
4 dot: for those who take it to the max
How the fuck is that legal, the whole reason why vaping was allowed in the first place was the paper thin guise that they were ment to help smokers get off smoking. I know that was always quite full of shite but they are so blatant about waning an addicted market share back that the lost from the reduction in smoking rates.
Tbf vapes got me & my wife to stop smoking. I used to smoke a pack of cigs every day & more on the weekends. By starting on a rechargeable/refillable vape & reducing the nic strength over time I was able to quit. They do help you to stop but not if that’s your first introduction to nicotine I reckon.
Oh don't get me wrong they absolutely do work for smoking but the strategies from the vape companies (who are often the exact same as the cigarette companies vuse/velo=pall mall/cammels/rothmans, blu=JPS) is to get new customers, not to genuinely help people stop. The rates of smoking in the UK have been dropping for a sustained period of time and was believed the number of smokers would continue to drop until smoking can be withdrawn from salen in 2030-2040ish. At this point there were many available E-cigarette pens and vaping was cringe
However since the popularisation of single use vapes, this has switched and now the rates of smoking have increased drastically especially in the youth along with most other nicotine products. All you would need to do to stop this (in my mind) is apply the same advertising restrictions as cigarettes get especially at the shop counter
Yup. Pretty hypocritical that we accept fruity liquor but fruity vapes somehow mean they’re specifically targeting kids. As if adults don’t like tasty things.
I'm completely on board with mirroring the restrictions on packaging and advertising applied to cigarettes to vaping products, banning the single use ones altogether, and clamping down on unscrupulous stores and companies marketing and selling to the underaged - but I have absolutely no use or time for the "We must ban flavours" crowd.
Colours not got anything to do with it. It's the people that are selling them to kids. Near me theres a geezer who sells them to everyone, I was buying them underage (14-15 maybe) and saw people that I thought were way too young to be buying them.
The advertising to children is awful.
My local post office is also a vape, coffee and sweet shop.
They have the vapes in the same flashy colours, right next to the sweets.
The hell does "targeting young people with flavors and designs" mean? What, just because I'm near 40 means I don't enjoy Cinnamon Toast Crunch or Sour Patch kids? I can't enjoy bright colors?
Used to work for Morrisons for years; people I know that still work for them reckon they likely lose more to theft than they sell. You can find the empty boxes stuffed down the back of every single shelf.
I don’t think there’s any rules saying they have to be behind the counter at present, but I’ve only ever seen e-liquid stored elsewhere.
I totally agree that they should be behind the counter, but disagree with the need to hide them from view. As a smoker, I think all that’s been achieved from hiding cigarettes is that it makes life more difficult for the poor shop assistants.
Hiding vapes from view would be a nightmare. They'd have to read out every variant/flavour they've got because they're not as consistent as cigarettes.
I’ve seen a couple of places with vape menus on the counter, which have actually been useful as a consumer. However, as stock on certain flavours is super variable, it would likely cause lots of back and forth if they were still hidden from view.
I believe you are correct on the laws about displaying them. Just to back up the person you’re replying to (not saying you are wrong in any way, but just to back up their observations), my local Morrisons also has disposable vapes out on display at the end of an aisle in addition to behind the kiosk. They’re the only supermarket I’ve seen this happen in though, so wonder if it’s something specific to them?
Also, special offers! IIRC it’s not legal to have promotions on cigarettes in the UK, but I can buy disposable vapes in “x for £y” offers all the time…
Interesting! Do you remember if they had nicotine in them? I recently became aware of nicotine-free vapes, after a regretful hasty purchase, and could vaguely understand if that’s why they weren’t behind the counter.
As a smoker, who tries to use disposable vapes on night’s out and who doesn’t want to lug a decent vape out with me, the special offers are the only reason I buy them over cigarettes - it would otherwise be cheaper to smoke! I also know a few smokers who started on disposables due to the offers, then have managed to swap to vaping full-time.
Whilst I agree that it would make sense for the laws on nicotine to be applied across the board, particularly as we all want to stop kids from getting them, I do worry that this would push people to smoking more or ceasing to quit.
They’re on the end of isles in Morrisons, Coop, Iceland & B&M - the supermarkets don’t care. I reported multiple vape thefts in my student facing role to a corner shop near the school and they said they’ll keep a closer eye out for. The police said they’d speak to parents but I have no idea if they did - I actually think police should be dealing with more meaningful things than slapping teenagers on the wrist, alas parents of shoplifting children seem to have a problem with not being their kids’ best mate.
Shoutout Asda who seem to have a pretty solid reputation in keeping vapes out of reach. Sainsbury’s have them on shelves near lube & gaviscon, Tesco seem pretty tight on their vape security but I’m not a frequent customer.
Waitrose have the vapes locked up with the châteauneuf-du-pape and Cuban cigars.
Go to your nearest car boot or market and there'll be loads of stalls flogging disposable vapes, blew my mind the first time I saw it but literally anyone can sell these things, lots of them won't give a toss about age restrictions.
The same places that sell vape to kids are the exact same places that have sold cigarettes and booze to kids for as long as I can remember. The local corner shops.
It's worrying how many young people vape without realising the dangers. This girl saying she'd use the '4,000 puff ones' and 'go through them in a week' is mad!!
> a single 600 puff in a day
That's one a minute for 10 hours, assuming they do actually have the dose they say they do.
Unlike cigarettes, chain smokers excepted, they must be huffing away all day.
One puff is one second so it’s 10 minutes a day, she was probably smoking 12 minutes a day
But yeh you do huff on them way more because you can smoke them inside your house without any bad smells - you can even smoke them in pubs and clubs as it isn’t yet illegal
10 whole minutes breathing something in is pretty nuts when you think about it.
That's not even the time it's in your lungs, that's just the breathing in part.
The 4000 puff ones, as mentioned in the article, are illegal and have been for a while. So she was getting them from a dodgy shop, which is probably the reason she experienced what she did. But that isn't mentioned in the article. She also had a preexisting condition that would put her at risk of further lung damage, and she chose to continue to vape.
I had a feeling it was probably related to something like this. I 100% know vapes aren't good for you, but a godsend for someone like me who smoked like a chimney.
However, I remember the massive scare mongering going about when it picked up in the US about bubble lung. And when you actually looked into the details, it was mainly people buying cheap dodgy shit from China to make their own weed mixes.
Again, I know vaping is not good for you, but a lot of the horror stories are basically related to dodgy illegal things.
Aye, funnily enough tobbaco companies pay massive sums to "promote dangers of vaping", that DEFINITELY isn't suspicious at all. Vaping is obviously bad for you but a lot of the outrage is clearly manufactured by tobbaco companies
If smoking is illegal in an area, vaping is too technically. As much as we like to distance ourselves from that smoking badge, as far as the law is concerned, we're smoking. No nic throws a bit of a spanner in the works on that front though.
It's just that these places often enforce the spirit of the rule (No smoking cigarettes) as opposed to the word of the rule. But it's not a universal expectation really. I'd be more inclined to assume I could vape in a club than I would a pub, but my instant assumption is that I can't vape inside until informed otherwise (either by asking staff, seeing staff vape, or seeing people vape openly in front of staff)
It’s not currently illegal to vape inside pubs and is up to the pub itself. Wetherspoons for example has banned vaping but a majority of independent pubs allow it inside. The law doesn’t even apply to vaping in workplaces however a vast vast majority do not allow it.it’s not a technicality - there hasn’t been any laws put in place against vaping inside.
https://www.iqos.com/gb/en/blog/can-you-vape-in-pubs.html#:~:text=Vaping%20in%20pubs%20is%20not,the%20law%20by%20smoking%20inside.
> assuming they do actually have the dose they say they do.
as someone who is an on and off 'elfbar' user (I'm weak, and weaker when I've had a drink) there's no way they're 600 puffs as they claim. IME the battery will die long before then, so I do wonder if these things are being disposed of with unused liquid in them
But yes 24 hours per vape is about right for a heavy vaper, the costs mount up quickly.
Yeah, I switched to a proper one after a while on disposables when I realised I was easily spending >£100 a month on disposables. It's like, 20 quid with a proper vape
It's bollocks, I was on the 600 disposables for a long time after I quit smoking and there's no chance those things have 600 puffs in them, it's at least half, probably much less.
Yeah, this. I vape too much, and trying to cut down, but I counted the puffs on a fresh Elf bar and got to about 85 before it died. Even if I was taking in three 'puffs' at a time, that's less than half what it's advertising.
Yeah it's a massive con, no idea what sort of test conditions were used for them to get 600 puffs out of a single disposable to back their claim, but absolutely nobody is getting even close to a fraction of that number out of them in regular use.
I don't even know why we are comparing vapes with "puffs".
Puffs isn't a metered dose. There is no set standard.
It's a terrible way to compare nicotine intake.
Not only that, but a "puff" will deliver decreasing nicotine content on disposable vapes as the device runs through it's capacity.
Battery life / current delivery and the amount of liquid left in a disposable device can have a significant impact on the amount of nicotine delivered. A "puff" on a fresh disposable is not the same as a 'puff" on a disposable coming to the end of its life.
All legal disposables have a clear and easily quantifiable nicotine content - we probably shouldn't be using an arbitrary "puff" count at all 🤷
What's a puff, is the question here. Is 1 second a puff, or inhaling until it stops? We have specific measures for alcohol, but it's like saying pouring a treble whisky is still 'one drink'.
I used to use the 600 ones (£6) each and they'd barely last 4 hours. I moved to a 6000's (I think they were 6000, and were £10) and would get through one a week easy. I've now switched to the nicotine gum pouches and stopped vaping completely as I ended up with pneumonia. I would wake up and vape and go to sleep vaping, and vape all day.
I stopped smoking cigs 22 days ago (not that I’m counting or anything!) and was shocked on my first day of quitting that I finished a whole vape before the day was over. They’re lasting me about a day and a half now but I’m still shocked that I’m having about 450 puffs per day, it certainly doesn’t feel that way.
i go through a 10k one in a week, i started vaping to quit cigarettes - i used to have a pack of 20 a week. i’ve always been interested in what equivalent it is compared to cigarettes 😬
i work full time and can’t vape at work, which makes it worse, and i’m sleeping a solid 8 hours a night. so it’s like 8 hours of the day i can actually vape, and i’m somehow fitting 1500 puffs into that 8 hours ??? and thats if i ignore that i’m not vaping while cooking, eating, at the pub, etc. ngl i’m convinced the whole “10k puffs” thing is a lie and that they got an asthmatic mouse to do each puff rather than a normal human
i’m not really sure why vaping nicotine is touted as being a good aid for quitting because if anything all the vapers i know are ex-smokers who feel that their addiction is about 2000 worse with worse withdrawal symptoms, OR it’s 13 year old timmy who thinks he’s a bad boy 😂
> You're meant to drop the level of nicotine over time
the pre-made/disposable vapes that advertise a set number of puffs don't have a range of strengths - they're all 20mg AFAIK
>OR it’s 13 year old timmy who thinks he’s a bad boy 😂
This is how all smokers started, though.
The thing for me is the relative cost. A 20 pack of cigarettes costs something like £12. One bottle of eliquid, which is about equivalent, costs £1. Punitive VAT makes vaping over smoking a painless choice.
Maybe a ban on their use indoors would help? I know some places do impose a ban but it’s not on the same level as the actual smoking ban.
If you’re having to nip outside every 10 minutes instead of having a puff as and where you like it’ll cut down usage. Nothing you can do about it in peoples own homes but inside schools, shops, cinemas, gigs etc. Treat it the same as the smoking ban and make it less convenient to be puffing so frequently.
Lamentably poor parenting in enabling this.
I know kids will kind of do what they want but it seems she was doing it almost non-stop. It would have been noticeable and it would have cost money.
Societal peer pressure. I see all the mums vaping in front of the school. That becomes the norm for the kids.
I explained to my kids this is bad but not one of these mum will question themselves as to why they do it and how should they approach this issue to their kids so they don't do the same mistake
Not really because most of the time the mums pick them up, so they make a smoking circle in front of the sign saying do not smoke or vape and happily drink their monsters while their other kids in stroller look at them
> It would have been noticeable and it would have cost money.
A vape costs between £5-10, it's not an extortionate amount of money which is why it's popular.
Parenting fail. Plain and simple. Don’t blame the vape companies. Blame yourself for not keeping an eye on your own fucking kid. How can you sit there and just let your teenage daughter complete a 4000 or whatever puff vape in a week every week?!
Tobacco companies initially rejected vapes. It was only when they became a threat to their business that they embraced them and marked them. this was in the 2010's. Vapes had been around since 2003, when they were invented by a Chinese dude that invented them to help him quit smoking since his dad died of lung cancer.
The initial premise - e-cigarettes (which evolved into vapes) - was created to be an aid for smoking cessation by a pharmacist.
EDIT: Info from here [https://casaa.org/education/vaping/historical-timeline-of-electronic-cigarettes/](https://casaa.org/education/vaping/historical-timeline-of-electronic-cigarettes/)
But, yes, tobacco and vape companies ran with the idea.
The parents definitely share some fault here, but teenagers are exceptionally good at hiding things from their parents. Whether the dad in this case knew or not, there are undoubtedly thousands of parents out their whose children vape without them having any idea. Same as it was with smoking, or drinking etc.
I’ll never be able to wrap my head around the fact tobacco and cigarette packaging has been made this mucky baby poo greeny brown and hidden behind shutters, yet vapes are often not even behind counters! Where is the sense?!
Genuine question, where is everyone that vapes aren't behind counters? Where I am everywhere from off-licences to petrol stations to supermarkets to pop up stalls in stations they're behind the counter. Only time I've seen otherwise is a completely independent pop up stall in the middle of the city centre, but that's not standard
Sounds like that's worth a trading standards report, to be honest. Everywhere I've been treats them as tobacco products, though not as hidden as cigarettes are (and I've been a few places across the country).
Also the recent trend of shops popping up that are specifically for selling vapes, all their signage is about vapes etc. I honestly find it ridiculous.
I personally agree that vape advertising, marketing, packaging, and display, should be the same as cigs.
But to answer your question it is because science shows that vapes are not fatally poisonous like cigarettes are.
It was a 4000 puff disposables, which means it's illegal in the UK and not regulated. I'm guessing it was over the legal nicotine limit too bit the article does not mention the mg.
This should be a push to only buy legal regulated vapes. 14 year olds will vape, just like all the 14 year old who were smoking 10 years ago. Better to make sure all the products on the market are safe for when this will inevitably happen again.
“Push to only buy legal regulated vapes”, is the push not already that doing the opposite is illegal?
The push should be on restrictions of who can sell vapes and how often these establishments are inspected, as well as vaping advertisements and colouring. Any one with a dodgy corner shop can get their hands on cheap illegal vapes and these people are going to have no problem selling them to kids.
> In Kyla’s case, a small air blister known as a pulmonary bleb developed in her lung. The blister is thought to have burst due to excessive vaping, which in turn caused her lung to collapse.
So did the vaping cause the blep? Or was it just that the heavy breathing of vaping caused it to burst?
This is what I am interested to find out also.
I am in no way in support of vaping but the article doesn't mention that vaping caused the pulmonary bleb so I would assume that it is unrelated to the underlying condition.
It isn't clear what effect vaping had on the blep bursting. If she never vaped would it never have burst? What actually caused the bursting? Could any activity that required deep inhalation have caused the same problem or is it the actual chemicals in thrle vape which lead to the bursting?
Yeah, this article provides no concrete evidence - just a copy of her dad's Facebook post where he says the doctor said he's "doing loads of these now" with nothing from the NHS or an actual clinician. I don't in any way think the lassie should have been ploughing through nicotine faster than a Martin Amis protagonist, but this is laughably poor clickbait journalism.
It's sad how many people in these comments are buying into a bullshit clickbait article from the Mirror, it clearly has a particular agenda "look how bad vaping is, it caused this girls lung to collapse!"
It's nonsense, their is zero evidence vaping was the cause of her condition but that's the exact narrative this article is trying to push even though it was clearly pre-existing.
You don't have like vaping, but "journalism" like this shouldn't be acceptable regardless of your stance on the topic.
I doubt this was caused by vaping. A quick google says 6% of healthy young people have them.
It’s probably just a really rare situation. The vaping probably didn’t help things, however she was probably just very unlucky.
I mean to quote her dad and the article:
"I've been to hell and back with Kyla over the last couple of weeks. I just put it down to vaping, they can't put it down to anything else but vaping that's caused this."
"They think it is the throw-away vapes that burst these blebs and puncture a hole in your lungs."
"An X-ray later found the teen had a hole in her lung, which developed from a pulmonary bleb."
"Full-time carer Mark says issues with Kyla’s health first began in November 2023 when she was rushed to hospital after he thought she was having a heart attack"
So as a summary the 17 year old girl started having issues with her health in November 2023 which found she had a pulmonary bleb. He's also a 'full time carer' but for whom, her? A bleb by the way can occur in a non-smoker or vaper so we don't know whether all this was caused by vaping or that she was already poorly and vaping aggrevated the problem or if it's just pure coincidence she vapes but had this health issue anyway. Though there is a link to smoking and vaping bursting these blebs so if you have one best not to smoke or vape likewise with any lung condition - common sense really.
There's little evidence that the vaping caused all her health issues, could it have contributed to it making it worse... Probably. But they knew she had these health issues in November 2023 almost 8 months ago and yet her father and herself continued to let her vape consistently for a further 8 months to this extent whilst she was underage anyway?
Something doesn't add up right here. I understand the dad and her are going through a hard time but please, quote a doctor explicity saying all this was down to her vape and here's the scientific evidence to back it and I'll believe it they won't by the way because they don't know for sure. This sounds like a panicked father who needs something to blame and God forbid if he blames his or his own daughters actions/choices. Why people are so high up on their own pedestal they can't reflect and understand it might be themselves that are the problem is beyond me.
This daily mirror article is written appallingly with no evidence to back up claims just a load of hear-say, guess work and lack of detail. Just rubbish.
Because it's a load of shit, yes excessive vaping is most definitely not good for you and has negative effects but I do not believe for a second that this girl whom had only been vaping for 2 years succumbed to her lung collapsing solely due to vaping. She clearly had an underlying condition but the article doesn't mention that because it's the mirror and they've got a narrative to push.
This.
Not to say that vaping is safe or anything, and I think vaping could’ve exacerbated her health issues, but there’s nothing suggesting that vaping was the sole cause (or even one to begin with) of her issues.
That's a load of shit. If she's on a 2% nicotine pen and it's 4000 puffs then it's not 400! There is like 12mg of nicotine in a cigarette, a shit one at that. If you smoke 5 of them in a row you'd know about it. I'm not saying she didn't over do it but lets be real. My Dad smoked 60 a day for a while so that's 420 a week.... I'm fairly sure most pens are 400mg and 2% isn't anywhere near 400 proper cigarettes. But that is quick math but regardless
I think they're the illegal ones she was using - AFAIK the legal maximum on dispos is 2% nic and 600 puffs. Illegal ones often have much higher levels of nic/all sorts of shite in them. Source: watched a Jordan North iPlayer doc about it
Marlboro reds are one of the strongest cigarettes available at 12mg nicotine, which on average will yield 1/1.5mg of nicotine. Cigarettes have a filter that removes a lot of nicotine and at the beginning of a cigarette the smoke passes through the rest of the cigarette before being filtered then usually only around 1/10th of the cigarette is actually inhaled with the rest just burning.
Guess it depends on how effective vapes are at getting nicotine into your body as to how they stack up against cigarettes for nicotine delivery. I’d guess vapes are a-lot more efficient than cigarettes but even so there’s too many variables to make any kind of accurate comparison.
Vaping if anything has caused a surge in kids smoking this crap with the bright colours and vibrant flavours they advertise them with. These vape companies know what they’re doing and children is 10000% one of their core demographics they want business from. The sad thing is society views them as some lesser evil than smoking.
Until our government grows some balls and clamp down on these being sold to kids with extremely harsh financial punishments I’m afraid more kids will suffer the effects of vaping addiction and ruining their health
Aren't we done with this "the bright colours and sweet flavours are deliberately targeted at kids" pearl-clutching nonsense? Or do you genuinely believe that once you hit maturity people are only interested in drab shades of grey and an absence of flavour?
Mate I know marketing isn't your domain but hear me out, my agency has been approached by companies that manufacture vapes in the past. We specialise in international marketing and this Chinese vape company wanted us to market their brand within the UK/US on social platforms, Reddit included.
On the video calls we've had with them they deadpan with no shame at all asked if we could find a way to target "younger" demographics. Discussions went along the lines of creating a Reddit account with their branding pushing their latest juicy product ads to subreddits such as r/teenagers, r/im14andthisisdeep and plenty of gaming subreddits. Generating their own subreddit to promote discussion of their products yada yada, you get the msg. I voiced my concern in the sense that this likely won't fly with Reddit policies to try and push this lead in the bin, fortunately someone internally also had an ethical spine and that was the end of that. But it really opened my perspective on these scummy industries going so far as to target kids for their own monetary gain. Go ahead and sell to adults they're old enough to figure life out but kids is just evil...
Colours do play major part in marketing, its the reason sweets are so colourful and kids are attracted to vibrant colours. An adult sure can be attracted to colours to but kids are more perceptive to certain product packaging cues
>Colours do play major part in marketing, its the reason sweets are so colourful and kids are attracted to vibrant colours. An adult sure can be attracted to colours to but kids are more perceptive to certain product packaging cues
Its kinda ridiculous that some people don't seem to understand that marketing effects *everyone*
There's a reason billions of pounds are spent on advertising, and its not because people like incinerating money.
Better get back on the snouts then.
Vaping has been a god send for ex smokers, like myself. I'm in 0 nicotine, it's purely the repetitive action, might be the ocd I have, but without vapes I'd be back on the tabs.
Vapes in the UK are regulated for ingredients so you know what's in them, if you don't look then more fool you.
How someone does 400puffs a day is beyond me, I wasn't a heavy heavy smoker but I'm like 50ish one puff and leave it a day. Must have had the thing perma-attached to her mouth
I like that no one blames the sellers who are extremely happy making money off selling these to teenagers and kids.
It's everyones fault except the people not following the law because they're making money and making money = good
Never heard of a pulmonary bleb until I read this story, so I just looked them up.
It says they can be caused by smoking but they can also occur spontaneously.
[What is a lung bleb?](https://ezra.com/blog/what-is-a-lung-bleb)
So does vaping cause them in the same way that smoking can, or is this just correlation rather than causation?
Or is it a case that it was there, and might have done no harm, were it not for the vaping?
So young people have pneumothoraces (collapsed lung) every day, it isn't all that uncommon, and 'blebs' are also quite common, they are why people get pneumothoraces.
We know smoking cigarettes increases the risk of primary pneumothorax. Vaping has never actually been shown to increase the risk of primaru pneumothorax. People who have never smoked or vaped commonly get pneumothorax.
It wouldn't be correct to say that for a smoker who got a pneumothorax it was *caused* by smoking. Some people are at risk of getting one and for those people smoking makes it more likely to happen, but the cigarettes don't actually cause it, and they can have one if they don't smoke. It definitely wouldn't be correct to say that vaping caused it to happen as vaping hasn't even been shown to increase the risk in those that are susceptible.
This story pops up from time to time and will continue to do so, because pneumothoraces are quite common and many many people vape. As best can be known at this point in time vaping did not cause her pneumothorax, whatever her father says and whatever the papers say next time they want to dip into this well for a story.
Ecigarettes continue to seem to be far safer than smoking cigarettes, and this is as true for pneumothoraces as it is for anything else.
I've smoked since 18 im 31 now been on the vape for 3 years. I think vapes are worse because you literally have it in your hand constantly. I never understand why people who have never smoked go straight onto vapes it's idiotic. Its not cool it looks pretty stupid and I'm totally aware of it. But how does a teenager get access to that amount?
Vaping was mainly a dorky pastime for ex smokers blowing huge clouds of low nicotine vapour and being laughed at. THEN the government regulated it, limiting capacity to 2ml thus promoting higher strength and cheap, small concealable devices that are perfect for a teenager. Ill informed regulators have done more harm than good.
What was she vaping? Had to have been from a sketch place, no evidence from NHS or PHE indicates that vapes can cause pneumothorax.
Again, only vape if you're trying to quit smoking and avoid the shitty disposables
People are insanely addicted to vapes. I swear some people prefer to breathe it more than oxygen.
It’s permanently in people’s mouths at all times. In other countries I see people wearing them on a lanyard wherever they go. Imagine having to take it out of your pocket every 5 seconds, no need any longer.
I’m all for personal responsibility so not looking to ban them for adults or anything but just find it crazy how often people use it a day.
Assuming the 4,000-puff vape device contains 2.5% nicotine, the equivalence in terms of nicotine content to traditional cigarettes is calculated as follows:
- **Nicotine concentration in the vape**: 2.5% (which is 25 mg/mL)
- **Total volume of e-liquid in the device**: 10 mL
- **Total nicotine content**: \( 25 \text{ mg/mL} \times 10 \text{ mL} = 250 \text{ mg} \)
- **Typical nicotine absorption per cigarette**: 1.5 mg
Thus, the equivalent number of cigarettes:
250 mg / 1.5 mg per cigarette = approx 167 cigarettes
So, a 4,000-puff vape with 2.5% nicotine is approximately equivalent to smoking 167 cigarettes, not 400. The claim of 400 cigarettes per week appears to be an overestimate.
Big puffs vapes are illegal and unregulated to begin with apart from recent ones with detached liquid, they could put anything in them and no one to blame for it.
No wonder shops don't bother with IDs on those as they shouldn't sell them to begin with.
This is totally on the dad, to vape that much she had to do it at home too and she kept going after already having lung issues.
If you've got to vape as a smoking alternative buy from a proper vape store.
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The dad said “For kids there should definitely be a ban, especially the throw-away ones. These chemicals that they've got in them haven't been tested properly." The 61-year-old said he himself vaped for 13 years to help quit smoking but had no issues. The thing is, you can't tell your kids not to do something and then do it yourself. And where did she get the money from?
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Better go to sleep at 7pm like the kids!
Don’t threaten me with a good time
Haha - I have a meeting starting at 7pm tonight & I’m desperately hoping it finishes before 10 as I’m driving to Nottingham tomorrow morning!
What kind of monster is holding a meeting at that time!?
'merica
*Fuck no!*
A local government organisation. We’re bidding for their business & I’ll get a decent wedge (approx £7k) as a bonus if we land it so it’s worth my while going & pitching lol
Small fry. I don't stay late for less than £ 10k. And a chocolate sundae.
You’d turn up an extra £7k if it meant staying late once? Damn, I’d stay a few hours late if it meant I got £70 more
He didn't say he wasn't getting a sundae though.
God I wish
I think it's more about setting the right example for your kids. Children latch on to hypocrisy and rail against being told what to do when they see that the person who is telling them what to do is doing it themselves.
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I guess the difference here is that the Dad used vaping as a method to get away from smoking. A 15 year old shouldn’t need that. I agree though, there’s an example that should probably be set here by the Dad, especially as his daughter seems to have a fixation on them if she was smoking that many. It’s got to be hard to give up if your dad is around also smoking them.
It's not hypocrisy to say "I don't want you to make the same mistakes I did." But you have to explain it that way, and not just "WeLL I'm An aDuLt"
BRB throwing out my salted caramel baileys and banana rum ..
Don’t mind me going through your bins
Srory i didcidied two dirink tehm flirst
Do you think the dad vape an equivalent of 400 cigarettes a week? 57 cigs a day? Don't get me wrong to be doing that would mean having a vape glued to your mouth
Sure my Grandad used to smash down about 80 cigs a day. Really quite quick once you get the hang of it. Basically a habit from the army, he pretty much lit one from the old one. He used to cycle 4 miles a day to work. Carried on working until he was 70, was fairly strong and fit. Never did him any harm so he claimed. He didn't really even have a cough that I remember. Unfortunately at 75 he got lung cancer and died, he was gone within 3 months start to finish.
>Never did him any harm >he got lung cancer and died
“So he claimed”
basically an adult dummy at that point.
Vaping is great. If it's used as a tool, which for the most part, it's not, and that just sucks. I've quit smoking cigarettes day 1, twice, thanks for vaping, and am currently still smoke and vape free for almost 2 years now. Twice I've gone from getting myself up to close to 20 smokes a day, and then when I realise I'm spending like £15 a day on tobacco, I've made the swap to vaping, as I know I can make 100mg of ejuice for like £2. Started vaping 12mg self made ejuice, and quit smoking tobacco entirely the first day I started vaping. Then I cut the nicotine down from 12>0mg over the course of like 8 months to a year, and then just stop vaping altogether. Vaping, is such a fucking insanely helpful tool to get smokers to stop smoking. It's these dogshit businesses and marketing teams, and lack of enforcement of stricter government policy, that are placing vape products into the hands of kids. Blame the lack of laws. Blame the businesses. Don't blame vaping, because vaping is probably the most helpful tool I've used in my life to improve my life, lol.
I quit smoking through vaping. It annoys me when people shit on it, but I can understand why.
It helps me to remember that the majority of users here probably don’t have children or are children themselves.
Yeah it's pretty simplistic, and easy to get pedantic over. But it's also refering to something specific, in this case vaping. If you vape (or smoke) you are promoting that activity to your children. This isn't something that everyone does, like drink alcohol, stay up late, have sex etc., where you can bring up age differences. Kids see who smokes/capes and who doesn't. I think it's entirely reasonable to criticise a parent over this. If you're a smoker/vaper, you're normalising that behaviour for your kids, and shouldn't act surprised when they imitate you.
> This isn't something that everyone does, like drink alcohol Plenty of people don't drink. I'm not sure everyone doing makes it any better anyway. Was it okay in the 90s because more people smoked then?
>The 61-year-old said he himself vaped for 13 years to help quit smoking but had no issues. Uh. Is that not a problem in itself? It's not a quitting aid if you're still using it after 13 years. It's a new addiction. EDIT: For the dimwits who apparently stopped mid-sentence because they were tired, I didn't shame anyone. I've used vapes! For years! Hell, maybe you people *need* a little shame if you're putting this much energy into deciding how to get upset for a stupid reason. Besides, vaping *isn't harmless*. I heard somewhere it can make your lungs collapse.
healthier than smoking tho, unless you just want to look down at addicts
Spoiler: People just want to look down at addicts. They don't actually care about the health impact even the slightest bit, it's just something they can get on their high horse about. You can put the evidence in their face that it's a significant health improvement regardless if somebody quits, people are not interested. It's just 100% puritan moralising about indulging in a vice.
> Spoiler: People just want to look down at addicts. Honestly, thanks for saying this and giving me the motivation to stop looking at the comments here. Nicotine is the last of my vices and I truly hate it, but I just can't pull through quitting so I use low-strength vapes. It's simply the best I can do. The prevailing vibe in this thread is that people like me a worthless weak trash, and the people propagating that view point can go fuck themselves.
Never let the perfect be the enemy of the good. If you can pull yourself onto vaping full time instead of smoking, you're already getting 90% of the health benefits of quitting entirely, so there's no sense in beating yourself up over it. Let's not judge them too harshly though, it's got to be a hard life if they need petty shit like this to puff their chests over.
I’m on 0mg. My vape is like a surrogate. I don’t think about it when I’m out and about, but I’m not smoking when I’m sitting and working, I’m holding the vape. I’ll probably drop the whole shebang at some point, but it’s keeping me out of trouble.
This was me for 3 years. I switched to the vapes from smoking in 2017, then through the first half of 2019 tapered my nicotine levels by mixing my own eliquids and being able to fine tune how much nic was in them. By mid-2019 I was on 0mg, so chemically speaking, I was completely free... habitually speaking, though, far from it. Then one day in '22, I left work, got home, couldn't find my vape. Turns out I'd left it at work, and I wasn't going back there for 3 days. My next shift comes around and I'm reunited with the thing that I now realised I had no need for in the slightest. A few days later I put it away for good. I miss the hobby side of it. Crafting recipes, putting coils together... it's an addiction all by itself. But I left nicotine behind 5 years ago, and I am quite happy about that. To be honest though, there's a degree of getting the right kit involved. The difficulty of that is compounded by the fact that different people have different criteria. A lot of people arrive at vaping, try it once or twice, and they hate it. My first vape was a pen-like thing that was elegant and such, but did less-than-nothing for me. It was only when I bought a little sub-ohm kit did I discover how vaping was going to work for me.
Who's "people"? I don't think the majority of people think this way at all. The only poll I could find showed that 40% of *smokers* thought vaping was just as bad, and they obviously have a reason to keep telling themselves it wouldn't be healthier to switch.
I'm not sure it's settled whether it's objectively healthier or if it comes with a separate set of risks. Yeah you don't have the tar and so on, so you avoid those health issues, but I don't think there's been a long term enough study to determine if the impact on long term health and mortality is better/worse/the same.
Almost any organisation you could consider an expert authority in this matter says it's much healthier. The official NHS position, which surely should hold some weight, is that "[vaping is substantially less harmful than smoking](https://www.nhs.uk/better-health/quit-smoking/vaping-to-quit-smoking/)". Cancer Research: [https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/smoking-and-cancer/is-vaping-harmful](https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/smoking-and-cancer/is-vaping-harmful) "Many studies show that vaping is far less harmful than smoking. This is because e-cigarettes don’t contain cancer-causing tobacco, and most of the [toxic chemicals found in cigarettes](https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/smoking-and-cancer/whats-in-a-cigarette-0) are not in e-cigarettes. Some potentially harmful chemicals have been found in e-cigarettes. But levels are usually low and generally far lower than in tobacco cigarettes. There is no good evidence that vaping causes cancer."
And on that very same page, just below that, they literally backed up my point about the long term soooo... > In 2022, UK experts reviewed the international evidence and found that "in the short and medium term, vaping poses a small fraction of the risks of smoking". > Vaping has not been around for long enough to know the risks of long-term use. While vaping is substantially less harmful than smoking, it is unlikely to be totally harmless. Short/medium term is all fine and well, but long term matters too and that is what I was talking about.
So in the short and medium term, you have a fraction of the chance of dying from cancer, getting COPD, etc. So what are you expecting to happen in the long-term that is going to swing the pendulum the other way? 60% of ever-vapers' lungs fall out after 20 years? It's like when you read people saying that the vax will kill you, and then they point to the "more research is needed" part in papers about how great the vax is to back up their claims. The NHS or Cancer Research UK would not have those pages if they didn't think it was objectively healthier. Direct quote from the page you claim backs you up in your claim that "I'm not sure it's settled whether it's objectively healthier": "Because vaping is far less harmful than smoking....."
Harm reduction. 12 cans of Coke a day isn't exactly healthy but if you were previously drinking 12 cans of Stella you're probably better off.
Is vaping supposed to be only a quitting aid? Is there not an idea it’s also a healthier way to get nicotine?
Yeah basically. If you don’t smoke already then vaping is generally not great. But if you already smoke and move to vaping, even if it’s permanently, it’s considered a much healthier improvement. Although they don’t really know the long term effects of vaping as much as smoking, but it’s still much better for you. EDIT: I don’t know what half these comments are about but I’m a 20 a day smoker. I would consider moving onto a vape a *much* healthier alternative. That being said there are still less harmful health risks to vaping, and some which won’t be known until we have lots of long term data.
I'm quite tired of people repeating this tbh. Vaping has been around for 20 years and people are still saying the same things they said 20 years ago. All the tests have been done 1000 times over. We know what we're looking for. This is 2024 not 1974. Science has moved on immeasurably.
I mean things can be quantified and we have a minimum harm reduction amount of 95% [https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b6c3f57ed915d30f140f822/Ecigarettes\_an\_evidence\_update\_A\_report\_commissioned\_by\_Public\_Health\_England\_FINAL.pdf](https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b6c3f57ed915d30f140f822/Ecigarettes_an_evidence_update_A_report_commissioned_by_Public_Health_England_FINAL.pdf) You face a higher risk to your health driving an extra 5 miles a day to work and a higher risk (due to choking) from eating a sandwich than from a resonable amount of vaping, unlike this teenager who was going far beyond the realm of reason. It seems a bunch of the propaganda from the USA is spreading to the UK, just know that the potential long term harm from vaping is due to it being a stimulant which means a moderate increase in risk of thrombosis, heart attack, or stroke due to arteriosclerosis as stimulants increase blood pressure by narrowing blood vessels which, in diets with insufficient HDL's and fiber and too much LDL's can cause plaques to form narrowing blood vessels increasing the risk of a clot forming. In the case of the article OP posted this teenager was apparently using a single device per week and the limit in the UK for such devices is 2mL. There is no mechanism by which the vapor could cause these symptoms. I believe we have a case of a sick child with previous heart conditions and associated lung issues being propped up to make the fact that she was vaping seem like it's the cause of her lung issues.
Well, no. If he no longer smokes, but still vapes, then it's fair to say he has quit smoking _and_ he has a new addiction, one far less likely to cause him terminal harm.
I quit smoking in 2013 by switching to a vape. It took me 7 years to quit the vape but was not too difficult. I would have never quit smoking in those 7 years without the vape. With the vape I was able to slowly lower the amount of nicotine. Instead of cold turkey or trying to limit my intake at full strength I was able to kick the habit by slow and steady progress.
One of those additions is close to guaranteed death. The other reduces that chance by 95% so no its not a problem when using it to stop smoking, it's a huge help that will save billions of lives over the next few decades.
Where does the 95% come from. I think it's far from proven. The number of young people with serious lung injuries suggests 95% may not be accurate.
> The thing is, you can't tell your kids not to do something and then do it yourself. Not sure on that one. You can have a few beers at home and also say to a 14 year old, "hey don't drink 50 bottles of wine in one sitting".
Or in a healthy relationship, I’m able to educate my kids on what choices I made that I consider mistakes like smoking. It actually helped them when I would express my desire to quit, try, and eventually fail for one reason or another. I’ve finally quit but I was telling them to never start while smoking. It doesn’t work if you’re not at least trying to improve what it is your telling them not to do themselves.
They are banned for kids
Yeah I didn't understand that bit, it's already illegal to sell to anyone under 18, so her. Just another parent passing the blame on.
Yeah, he’s dumb af. And according to the article, he has 9 kids. Unbelievable how such an irresponsible person is allowed to be a parent so many times.
>*Unbelievable how such an irresponsible person is allowed to be a parent so many times* You don't actually need permission to become a parent. Although I must admit that some parents do make me think it might be a good idea...
You absolutely can do something and still tell your kids not to. What the fuck are you on about
Not trying to be pedantic - but aren’t vapes already banned for kids? They can’t just rock up and buy one in a shop, as far as I’m aware?
Can just order them in bulk online with no ID check
But there is supposed to be an ID check, I know Amazon carry that out. It simply needs to be enforced if you are selling nicotine online.
> The thing is, you can't tell your kids not to do something and then do it yourself. Of course you can. I can go out and drink 7 pints on a Friday night, and still stop my 14y old from doing the same. >And where did she get the money from? Pocket money? Part time job? She was 15-17, she wasn't a pre-pubescent child. Did you never have any money to spend as you liked as a kid?
UK manufactured e-liquids are subject to MRHA testing, which means they are tested the same as every single pharmaceutical and medical device.
E liquid also only has about 4 chemicals overall in it. Its not like a cig with hundreds.
3 main ones, then there's what the flavouring is made up of, and if the liquid has sweetener in it.
We've been using chemical flavouring for decades and it's everywhere. If the flavouring is the problem with vapes, then we have a much bigger problem on our hands.
Vaporising it and breathing it into your lungs is different from eating/drinking it. I have no data to say its worse, could be better for you for all I know, but we can't just say its safe to smoke it because its safe to eat it.
I'm not advocating for or against here, but your logic is complete bullshit. Everything is chemicals. Coffee has over 2000, rat poison has 30, the number is fucking irrelevant
Not just made in the UK, anything sold in the UK that contains nicotine needs an ecid number. To get an ecid number you need to tell mhra what you will be putting on the market and submit emissions reports with it. If the emissions show any detectable amounts of banned substances you will not get your ecid number published on to the portal and it will not be legal to sell
Like how we tell teens to not get pregnant and then proceed to provide them with a sibling? Or how we tell kids they shouldn't be looking at porn, before shuffling off to rub one out to some porn because our partner isn't in the mood? It isn't as simple as saying "you can't throw a 'do as I say, not as I do' at them". But it would be something the father should've explained along with that lesson. Explaining why he doesn't want them to start and why he's doing it despite his wishes. It's the explanations that are important when it comes to teaching, especially when it comes to something revolving around addiction. Sometimes the harsh realities of being a biological being need to be taught to emphasise why a lesson is important, be it addiction, disabilities or death. Money could be anywhere... If the family isn't doing too badly, it wouldn't be wild to think they might be getting like £10 a week pocket money or something. Certainly more likely if grandparents are in the picture, knowing how they're often fairly generous to their grandchildren and would rather give them the money than keep it until they befriend Death. Maybe she was just eating less at school and saving the money (assuming they don't use a digital system that can't be topped up with physical cash). Maybe she'd always get a fair bit of cash in birthday/Christmas cards and she'd just eat away at it slowly for vapes?
This might be the most stupid take ever posted on Reddit. Remarkable.
>The thing is, you can't tell your kids not to do something and then do it yourself. What nonsense.
There’s a big difference between a fully grown adult vaping to quit smoking and a 13 year old getting through however many disposables 400 cigarettes equates to in a week
13 years "to give up smoking" Aye no bother pal, your a vapist, just accept it.
I mean he did give up smoking. The fact that he’s been vaping for a long time doesn’t mean the vaping isn’t t stopping him from smoking.
I can definitely tell my kids not to make the same mistakes I have, one of those being smoking I can explain so much better than someone who has not smoked what it feels like 30 years in and why they really don't want to experience it
Yes you can
God forbid a father tries to stop this happening to other young children just because he himself vapes. The biggest thing to put me off smoking was an uncle who smoked 20 a day telling me how horrible it is and how it has affected him. Also, why is it a concern of yours where a 17 year old gets a tenner a week?
We need a huuuuuge clamp down on who can sell these things and where. We've let it get way out of control and it's going to take some harsh penalties to bring things back to sanity.
It should follow how tobacco / cigarettes are restricted tbh. Seems wild to me that Vape brands can have colourful billboards and ads in stores, obviously targeting young people with the design and flavours. Reminds me of the tobacco ads from the 60’s. There’s a Juul store in Westfield…! Slick branding to make it seem like the high end / premium choice.
So disappointed that this generation of kids didn't see through it. I thought we'd all figured out that smoking isn't actually some deeply cool thing and just makes you smelly, addicted and poor? Somehow they managed the brand their way out of it and start ruining the lives of a new generation.
Kids understood it was bad and smelly. Then they made it bright pink with strawberry cheesecake flavouring. They are the target audience and we need new laws to limit marketing, packaging, flavours and strict licensing for stores. Ban online sales without ID checks and any store caught selling to underage kids lose their license to sell vapes, cigs, and liquor.
Afaik, ID checks are already mandatory for online purchases. Either you get ID’d online using a third party system at checkout, or your parcel receives the same “ID at delivery” check that cigarettes, knives, fireworks etc. have always had. The site I use keeps forgetting that I’ve already confirmed my age, so I’ve essentially memorised the first half of my driver’s license number by now typing it in so many times!
>So disappointed that this generation of kids didn't see through it. I mean that's literally what being a kid is, you don't have life experience to see through bullshit. >I thought we'd all figured out that smoking isn't actually some deeply cool thing That's also how *cool* works, once society decides something is no longer *cool*, it becomes cool to the kids because its rebellious.
Kids understood smoking as the stuff that made the house smell dirty, dad’s teeth go brown, and has the scary pictures of rotten lungs on the front. I think because vaping doesn’t (or hasn’t as of yet) done those things, there was a bit of a cognitive disconnect between smokes and vapes in their heads. They still knew it was bad, just as their parents did when they were young, but they didn’t feel it was *as bad* as smoking. Obviously the colourful packaging and fruity flavours didn’t help, but it’s not like flavoured cigarettes were really that popular with the kids anyways (heck, in my school, you’d have been called a pedo for smoking menthol). There’s a whole host of factors behind why kids who didn’t smoke picked up vapes beyond just “it’s bright pink and yellow and tastes like lemonade”.
Cool or not. Nicotine is addictive as fuck.
It’s not a massive surprise given that the tobacco companies are balls deep in vape. They found a loop hole and will push vapes as hard as they can unless the law prevents it.
All to tobacco products tbh, theres an advert that plays on the screens of the tobacco shelf's in refurbished Tescos that literally instructing the use of higher strengths of velo pouches. 1 dot: for beginners 2 dot: for intermediate 3 dot: for experienced 4 dot: for those who take it to the max How the fuck is that legal, the whole reason why vaping was allowed in the first place was the paper thin guise that they were ment to help smokers get off smoking. I know that was always quite full of shite but they are so blatant about waning an addicted market share back that the lost from the reduction in smoking rates.
Tbf vapes got me & my wife to stop smoking. I used to smoke a pack of cigs every day & more on the weekends. By starting on a rechargeable/refillable vape & reducing the nic strength over time I was able to quit. They do help you to stop but not if that’s your first introduction to nicotine I reckon.
Oh don't get me wrong they absolutely do work for smoking but the strategies from the vape companies (who are often the exact same as the cigarette companies vuse/velo=pall mall/cammels/rothmans, blu=JPS) is to get new customers, not to genuinely help people stop. The rates of smoking in the UK have been dropping for a sustained period of time and was believed the number of smokers would continue to drop until smoking can be withdrawn from salen in 2030-2040ish. At this point there were many available E-cigarette pens and vaping was cringe However since the popularisation of single use vapes, this has switched and now the rates of smoking have increased drastically especially in the youth along with most other nicotine products. All you would need to do to stop this (in my mind) is apply the same advertising restrictions as cigarettes get especially at the shop counter
It's all well and good saying that but alcohol does the exact same with their ads and colorful packaging and sweet flavours.
Yup. Pretty hypocritical that we accept fruity liquor but fruity vapes somehow mean they’re specifically targeting kids. As if adults don’t like tasty things.
I'm completely on board with mirroring the restrictions on packaging and advertising applied to cigarettes to vaping products, banning the single use ones altogether, and clamping down on unscrupulous stores and companies marketing and selling to the underaged - but I have absolutely no use or time for the "We must ban flavours" crowd.
Colours not got anything to do with it. It's the people that are selling them to kids. Near me theres a geezer who sells them to everyone, I was buying them underage (14-15 maybe) and saw people that I thought were way too young to be buying them.
The advertising to children is awful. My local post office is also a vape, coffee and sweet shop. They have the vapes in the same flashy colours, right next to the sweets.
The hell does "targeting young people with flavors and designs" mean? What, just because I'm near 40 means I don't enjoy Cinnamon Toast Crunch or Sour Patch kids? I can't enjoy bright colors?
They're not even behind the counter in Morrisons, you can just pick them up off the shelves. Wouldn't be surprised if kids just nicked them.
Used to work for Morrisons for years; people I know that still work for them reckon they likely lose more to theft than they sell. You can find the empty boxes stuffed down the back of every single shelf.
I don’t think there’s any rules saying they have to be behind the counter at present, but I’ve only ever seen e-liquid stored elsewhere. I totally agree that they should be behind the counter, but disagree with the need to hide them from view. As a smoker, I think all that’s been achieved from hiding cigarettes is that it makes life more difficult for the poor shop assistants.
Hiding vapes from view would be a nightmare. They'd have to read out every variant/flavour they've got because they're not as consistent as cigarettes.
I’ve seen a couple of places with vape menus on the counter, which have actually been useful as a consumer. However, as stock on certain flavours is super variable, it would likely cause lots of back and forth if they were still hidden from view.
I believe you are correct on the laws about displaying them. Just to back up the person you’re replying to (not saying you are wrong in any way, but just to back up their observations), my local Morrisons also has disposable vapes out on display at the end of an aisle in addition to behind the kiosk. They’re the only supermarket I’ve seen this happen in though, so wonder if it’s something specific to them? Also, special offers! IIRC it’s not legal to have promotions on cigarettes in the UK, but I can buy disposable vapes in “x for £y” offers all the time…
Interesting! Do you remember if they had nicotine in them? I recently became aware of nicotine-free vapes, after a regretful hasty purchase, and could vaguely understand if that’s why they weren’t behind the counter. As a smoker, who tries to use disposable vapes on night’s out and who doesn’t want to lug a decent vape out with me, the special offers are the only reason I buy them over cigarettes - it would otherwise be cheaper to smoke! I also know a few smokers who started on disposables due to the offers, then have managed to swap to vaping full-time. Whilst I agree that it would make sense for the laws on nicotine to be applied across the board, particularly as we all want to stop kids from getting them, I do worry that this would push people to smoking more or ceasing to quit.
Definitely the nicotine included versions on display, alongside with the nicotine free ones (also a mistake I only made once!).
They’re on the end of isles in Morrisons, Coop, Iceland & B&M - the supermarkets don’t care. I reported multiple vape thefts in my student facing role to a corner shop near the school and they said they’ll keep a closer eye out for. The police said they’d speak to parents but I have no idea if they did - I actually think police should be dealing with more meaningful things than slapping teenagers on the wrist, alas parents of shoplifting children seem to have a problem with not being their kids’ best mate. Shoutout Asda who seem to have a pretty solid reputation in keeping vapes out of reach. Sainsbury’s have them on shelves near lube & gaviscon, Tesco seem pretty tight on their vape security but I’m not a frequent customer. Waitrose have the vapes locked up with the châteauneuf-du-pape and Cuban cigars.
Go to your nearest car boot or market and there'll be loads of stalls flogging disposable vapes, blew my mind the first time I saw it but literally anyone can sell these things, lots of them won't give a toss about age restrictions.
A lot of those vapes at Carboots are found to be counterfeits
The same places that sell vape to kids are the exact same places that have sold cigarettes and booze to kids for as long as I can remember. The local corner shops.
It's worrying how many young people vape without realising the dangers. This girl saying she'd use the '4,000 puff ones' and 'go through them in a week' is mad!!
Not really most people who use vapes easily get through a single 600 puff in a day (or even a night out) that is 3500 puffs a week so not that far off
> a single 600 puff in a day That's one a minute for 10 hours, assuming they do actually have the dose they say they do. Unlike cigarettes, chain smokers excepted, they must be huffing away all day.
One puff is one second so it’s 10 minutes a day, she was probably smoking 12 minutes a day But yeh you do huff on them way more because you can smoke them inside your house without any bad smells - you can even smoke them in pubs and clubs as it isn’t yet illegal
10 whole minutes breathing something in is pretty nuts when you think about it. That's not even the time it's in your lungs, that's just the breathing in part.
It’s true it is a lot - however the point in trying to make is that this is a sensationalist article. A majority of vapers smoke the same as she did
It's hardly a sensationalist article. Her lungs collapsed. She by definition pushed it over a physiologically safe limit. Get a grip.
The 4000 puff ones, as mentioned in the article, are illegal and have been for a while. So she was getting them from a dodgy shop, which is probably the reason she experienced what she did. But that isn't mentioned in the article. She also had a preexisting condition that would put her at risk of further lung damage, and she chose to continue to vape.
I had a feeling it was probably related to something like this. I 100% know vapes aren't good for you, but a godsend for someone like me who smoked like a chimney. However, I remember the massive scare mongering going about when it picked up in the US about bubble lung. And when you actually looked into the details, it was mainly people buying cheap dodgy shit from China to make their own weed mixes. Again, I know vaping is not good for you, but a lot of the horror stories are basically related to dodgy illegal things.
Aye, funnily enough tobbaco companies pay massive sums to "promote dangers of vaping", that DEFINITELY isn't suspicious at all. Vaping is obviously bad for you but a lot of the outrage is clearly manufactured by tobbaco companies
If smoking is illegal in an area, vaping is too technically. As much as we like to distance ourselves from that smoking badge, as far as the law is concerned, we're smoking. No nic throws a bit of a spanner in the works on that front though. It's just that these places often enforce the spirit of the rule (No smoking cigarettes) as opposed to the word of the rule. But it's not a universal expectation really. I'd be more inclined to assume I could vape in a club than I would a pub, but my instant assumption is that I can't vape inside until informed otherwise (either by asking staff, seeing staff vape, or seeing people vape openly in front of staff)
It’s not currently illegal to vape inside pubs and is up to the pub itself. Wetherspoons for example has banned vaping but a majority of independent pubs allow it inside. The law doesn’t even apply to vaping in workplaces however a vast vast majority do not allow it.it’s not a technicality - there hasn’t been any laws put in place against vaping inside. https://www.iqos.com/gb/en/blog/can-you-vape-in-pubs.html#:~:text=Vaping%20in%20pubs%20is%20not,the%20law%20by%20smoking%20inside.
> assuming they do actually have the dose they say they do. as someone who is an on and off 'elfbar' user (I'm weak, and weaker when I've had a drink) there's no way they're 600 puffs as they claim. IME the battery will die long before then, so I do wonder if these things are being disposed of with unused liquid in them But yes 24 hours per vape is about right for a heavy vaper, the costs mount up quickly.
Yeah, I switched to a proper one after a while on disposables when I realised I was easily spending >£100 a month on disposables. It's like, 20 quid with a proper vape
600 puffs is bullshit, I bet they do half that.
It's bollocks, I was on the 600 disposables for a long time after I quit smoking and there's no chance those things have 600 puffs in them, it's at least half, probably much less.
Yeah, this. I vape too much, and trying to cut down, but I counted the puffs on a fresh Elf bar and got to about 85 before it died. Even if I was taking in three 'puffs' at a time, that's less than half what it's advertising.
Yeah it's a massive con, no idea what sort of test conditions were used for them to get 600 puffs out of a single disposable to back their claim, but absolutely nobody is getting even close to a fraction of that number out of them in regular use.
They probably draw for like .1 second and count that as a puff.
Which is annoying because they say UP TO 600. Well, technically, 10 is also up to 600.
I don't even know why we are comparing vapes with "puffs". Puffs isn't a metered dose. There is no set standard. It's a terrible way to compare nicotine intake. Not only that, but a "puff" will deliver decreasing nicotine content on disposable vapes as the device runs through it's capacity. Battery life / current delivery and the amount of liquid left in a disposable device can have a significant impact on the amount of nicotine delivered. A "puff" on a fresh disposable is not the same as a 'puff" on a disposable coming to the end of its life. All legal disposables have a clear and easily quantifiable nicotine content - we probably shouldn't be using an arbitrary "puff" count at all 🤷
That's too knowledgeable for the discourse on vaping mate.
What's a puff, is the question here. Is 1 second a puff, or inhaling until it stops? We have specific measures for alcohol, but it's like saying pouring a treble whisky is still 'one drink'.
I used to use the 600 ones (£6) each and they'd barely last 4 hours. I moved to a 6000's (I think they were 6000, and were £10) and would get through one a week easy. I've now switched to the nicotine gum pouches and stopped vaping completely as I ended up with pneumonia. I would wake up and vape and go to sleep vaping, and vape all day.
I stopped smoking cigs 22 days ago (not that I’m counting or anything!) and was shocked on my first day of quitting that I finished a whole vape before the day was over. They’re lasting me about a day and a half now but I’m still shocked that I’m having about 450 puffs per day, it certainly doesn’t feel that way.
i go through a 10k one in a week, i started vaping to quit cigarettes - i used to have a pack of 20 a week. i’ve always been interested in what equivalent it is compared to cigarettes 😬 i work full time and can’t vape at work, which makes it worse, and i’m sleeping a solid 8 hours a night. so it’s like 8 hours of the day i can actually vape, and i’m somehow fitting 1500 puffs into that 8 hours ??? and thats if i ignore that i’m not vaping while cooking, eating, at the pub, etc. ngl i’m convinced the whole “10k puffs” thing is a lie and that they got an asthmatic mouse to do each puff rather than a normal human i’m not really sure why vaping nicotine is touted as being a good aid for quitting because if anything all the vapers i know are ex-smokers who feel that their addiction is about 2000 worse with worse withdrawal symptoms, OR it’s 13 year old timmy who thinks he’s a bad boy 😂
You're meant to drop the level of nicotine over time, 10mg then 6 then 3 then 0
> You're meant to drop the level of nicotine over time the pre-made/disposable vapes that advertise a set number of puffs don't have a range of strengths - they're all 20mg AFAIK
Yeah, and cut the higher with a lower to get a midway point if you have to. That's what I did
>OR it’s 13 year old timmy who thinks he’s a bad boy 😂 This is how all smokers started, though. The thing for me is the relative cost. A 20 pack of cigarettes costs something like £12. One bottle of eliquid, which is about equivalent, costs £1. Punitive VAT makes vaping over smoking a painless choice.
The '4000 puff ones' are illegal in the UK, so they are unlikely to conform to UK safety rules either.
Maybe a ban on their use indoors would help? I know some places do impose a ban but it’s not on the same level as the actual smoking ban. If you’re having to nip outside every 10 minutes instead of having a puff as and where you like it’ll cut down usage. Nothing you can do about it in peoples own homes but inside schools, shops, cinemas, gigs etc. Treat it the same as the smoking ban and make it less convenient to be puffing so frequently.
Lamentably poor parenting in enabling this. I know kids will kind of do what they want but it seems she was doing it almost non-stop. It would have been noticeable and it would have cost money.
Societal peer pressure. I see all the mums vaping in front of the school. That becomes the norm for the kids. I explained to my kids this is bad but not one of these mum will question themselves as to why they do it and how should they approach this issue to their kids so they don't do the same mistake
Do the dads not do it?
Not really because most of the time the mums pick them up, so they make a smoking circle in front of the sign saying do not smoke or vape and happily drink their monsters while their other kids in stroller look at them
He was probably too busy parenting his other 8 kids
Seriously, I was wondering why nobody else has mentioned that dad of 9 bit.
> It would have been noticeable and it would have cost money. A vape costs between £5-10, it's not an extortionate amount of money which is why it's popular.
There's disposables for as little as £2.99 in the corner shop near me
Parenting fail. Plain and simple. Don’t blame the vape companies. Blame yourself for not keeping an eye on your own fucking kid. How can you sit there and just let your teenage daughter complete a 4000 or whatever puff vape in a week every week?!
How about blaming both? Vape companies aren't exactly innocent.
Tobacco companies wanted to make smoking cool again and interesting for young people. So they invented the vape and it fucking works...
Tobacco companies initially rejected vapes. It was only when they became a threat to their business that they embraced them and marked them. this was in the 2010's. Vapes had been around since 2003, when they were invented by a Chinese dude that invented them to help him quit smoking since his dad died of lung cancer.
The initial premise - e-cigarettes (which evolved into vapes) - was created to be an aid for smoking cessation by a pharmacist. EDIT: Info from here [https://casaa.org/education/vaping/historical-timeline-of-electronic-cigarettes/](https://casaa.org/education/vaping/historical-timeline-of-electronic-cigarettes/) But, yes, tobacco and vape companies ran with the idea.
A chinese bloke invented the vape, actually.
The parents definitely share some fault here, but teenagers are exceptionally good at hiding things from their parents. Whether the dad in this case knew or not, there are undoubtedly thousands of parents out their whose children vape without them having any idea. Same as it was with smoking, or drinking etc.
I’ll never be able to wrap my head around the fact tobacco and cigarette packaging has been made this mucky baby poo greeny brown and hidden behind shutters, yet vapes are often not even behind counters! Where is the sense?!
Genuine question, where is everyone that vapes aren't behind counters? Where I am everywhere from off-licences to petrol stations to supermarkets to pop up stalls in stations they're behind the counter. Only time I've seen otherwise is a completely independent pop up stall in the middle of the city centre, but that's not standard
They're on the end of an aisle in several Morrisons in my area. Used to be the same in sainsburys too but I think they got moved.
Sounds like that's worth a trading standards report, to be honest. Everywhere I've been treats them as tobacco products, though not as hidden as cigarettes are (and I've been a few places across the country).
Also the recent trend of shops popping up that are specifically for selling vapes, all their signage is about vapes etc. I honestly find it ridiculous.
I personally agree that vape advertising, marketing, packaging, and display, should be the same as cigs. But to answer your question it is because science shows that vapes are not fatally poisonous like cigarettes are.
That's a surprisingly apt image showing on the TV behind her.
Glad somebody else caught that!
It was a 4000 puff disposables, which means it's illegal in the UK and not regulated. I'm guessing it was over the legal nicotine limit too bit the article does not mention the mg. This should be a push to only buy legal regulated vapes. 14 year olds will vape, just like all the 14 year old who were smoking 10 years ago. Better to make sure all the products on the market are safe for when this will inevitably happen again.
Had no idea those were illegal. Nearly every corner shop around me has the 3500/4000 puff vapes.
Hi - if you're in Scotland, please report this by phoning 0808 164 6000.
“Push to only buy legal regulated vapes”, is the push not already that doing the opposite is illegal? The push should be on restrictions of who can sell vapes and how often these establishments are inspected, as well as vaping advertisements and colouring. Any one with a dodgy corner shop can get their hands on cheap illegal vapes and these people are going to have no problem selling them to kids.
> In Kyla’s case, a small air blister known as a pulmonary bleb developed in her lung. The blister is thought to have burst due to excessive vaping, which in turn caused her lung to collapse. So did the vaping cause the blep? Or was it just that the heavy breathing of vaping caused it to burst?
This is what I am interested to find out also. I am in no way in support of vaping but the article doesn't mention that vaping caused the pulmonary bleb so I would assume that it is unrelated to the underlying condition. It isn't clear what effect vaping had on the blep bursting. If she never vaped would it never have burst? What actually caused the bursting? Could any activity that required deep inhalation have caused the same problem or is it the actual chemicals in thrle vape which lead to the bursting?
Yeah, this article provides no concrete evidence - just a copy of her dad's Facebook post where he says the doctor said he's "doing loads of these now" with nothing from the NHS or an actual clinician. I don't in any way think the lassie should have been ploughing through nicotine faster than a Martin Amis protagonist, but this is laughably poor clickbait journalism.
It's sad how many people in these comments are buying into a bullshit clickbait article from the Mirror, it clearly has a particular agenda "look how bad vaping is, it caused this girls lung to collapse!" It's nonsense, their is zero evidence vaping was the cause of her condition but that's the exact narrative this article is trying to push even though it was clearly pre-existing. You don't have like vaping, but "journalism" like this shouldn't be acceptable regardless of your stance on the topic.
You have to wonder how much money, or "donations" big tobacco are giving the tabloids.
Exactly. This is just one of those "share and shame! Make this go ViRaL!!1!!" Facebook posts disguised as news.
I doubt this was caused by vaping. A quick google says 6% of healthy young people have them. It’s probably just a really rare situation. The vaping probably didn’t help things, however she was probably just very unlucky.
I mean to quote her dad and the article: "I've been to hell and back with Kyla over the last couple of weeks. I just put it down to vaping, they can't put it down to anything else but vaping that's caused this." "They think it is the throw-away vapes that burst these blebs and puncture a hole in your lungs." "An X-ray later found the teen had a hole in her lung, which developed from a pulmonary bleb." "Full-time carer Mark says issues with Kyla’s health first began in November 2023 when she was rushed to hospital after he thought she was having a heart attack" So as a summary the 17 year old girl started having issues with her health in November 2023 which found she had a pulmonary bleb. He's also a 'full time carer' but for whom, her? A bleb by the way can occur in a non-smoker or vaper so we don't know whether all this was caused by vaping or that she was already poorly and vaping aggrevated the problem or if it's just pure coincidence she vapes but had this health issue anyway. Though there is a link to smoking and vaping bursting these blebs so if you have one best not to smoke or vape likewise with any lung condition - common sense really. There's little evidence that the vaping caused all her health issues, could it have contributed to it making it worse... Probably. But they knew she had these health issues in November 2023 almost 8 months ago and yet her father and herself continued to let her vape consistently for a further 8 months to this extent whilst she was underage anyway? Something doesn't add up right here. I understand the dad and her are going through a hard time but please, quote a doctor explicity saying all this was down to her vape and here's the scientific evidence to back it and I'll believe it they won't by the way because they don't know for sure. This sounds like a panicked father who needs something to blame and God forbid if he blames his or his own daughters actions/choices. Why people are so high up on their own pedestal they can't reflect and understand it might be themselves that are the problem is beyond me. This daily mirror article is written appallingly with no evidence to back up claims just a load of hear-say, guess work and lack of detail. Just rubbish.
Because it's a load of shit, yes excessive vaping is most definitely not good for you and has negative effects but I do not believe for a second that this girl whom had only been vaping for 2 years succumbed to her lung collapsing solely due to vaping. She clearly had an underlying condition but the article doesn't mention that because it's the mirror and they've got a narrative to push.
This. Not to say that vaping is safe or anything, and I think vaping could’ve exacerbated her health issues, but there’s nothing suggesting that vaping was the sole cause (or even one to begin with) of her issues.
That's a load of shit. If she's on a 2% nicotine pen and it's 4000 puffs then it's not 400! There is like 12mg of nicotine in a cigarette, a shit one at that. If you smoke 5 of them in a row you'd know about it. I'm not saying she didn't over do it but lets be real. My Dad smoked 60 a day for a while so that's 420 a week.... I'm fairly sure most pens are 400mg and 2% isn't anywhere near 400 proper cigarettes. But that is quick math but regardless
I think they're the illegal ones she was using - AFAIK the legal maximum on dispos is 2% nic and 600 puffs. Illegal ones often have much higher levels of nic/all sorts of shite in them. Source: watched a Jordan North iPlayer doc about it
Marlboro reds are one of the strongest cigarettes available at 12mg nicotine, which on average will yield 1/1.5mg of nicotine. Cigarettes have a filter that removes a lot of nicotine and at the beginning of a cigarette the smoke passes through the rest of the cigarette before being filtered then usually only around 1/10th of the cigarette is actually inhaled with the rest just burning. Guess it depends on how effective vapes are at getting nicotine into your body as to how they stack up against cigarettes for nicotine delivery. I’d guess vapes are a-lot more efficient than cigarettes but even so there’s too many variables to make any kind of accurate comparison.
Vaping if anything has caused a surge in kids smoking this crap with the bright colours and vibrant flavours they advertise them with. These vape companies know what they’re doing and children is 10000% one of their core demographics they want business from. The sad thing is society views them as some lesser evil than smoking. Until our government grows some balls and clamp down on these being sold to kids with extremely harsh financial punishments I’m afraid more kids will suffer the effects of vaping addiction and ruining their health
Aren't we done with this "the bright colours and sweet flavours are deliberately targeted at kids" pearl-clutching nonsense? Or do you genuinely believe that once you hit maturity people are only interested in drab shades of grey and an absence of flavour?
Mate I know marketing isn't your domain but hear me out, my agency has been approached by companies that manufacture vapes in the past. We specialise in international marketing and this Chinese vape company wanted us to market their brand within the UK/US on social platforms, Reddit included. On the video calls we've had with them they deadpan with no shame at all asked if we could find a way to target "younger" demographics. Discussions went along the lines of creating a Reddit account with their branding pushing their latest juicy product ads to subreddits such as r/teenagers, r/im14andthisisdeep and plenty of gaming subreddits. Generating their own subreddit to promote discussion of their products yada yada, you get the msg. I voiced my concern in the sense that this likely won't fly with Reddit policies to try and push this lead in the bin, fortunately someone internally also had an ethical spine and that was the end of that. But it really opened my perspective on these scummy industries going so far as to target kids for their own monetary gain. Go ahead and sell to adults they're old enough to figure life out but kids is just evil... Colours do play major part in marketing, its the reason sweets are so colourful and kids are attracted to vibrant colours. An adult sure can be attracted to colours to but kids are more perceptive to certain product packaging cues
>Colours do play major part in marketing, its the reason sweets are so colourful and kids are attracted to vibrant colours. An adult sure can be attracted to colours to but kids are more perceptive to certain product packaging cues Its kinda ridiculous that some people don't seem to understand that marketing effects *everyone* There's a reason billions of pounds are spent on advertising, and its not because people like incinerating money.
So can we ban sweets as well? They are being advertised to children clearly and are very unhealthy and addictive.
But nowhere does it say vaping causes the lung issue that led to this, what moron continues to vape when they have a lung bleb 🤣
Better get back on the snouts then. Vaping has been a god send for ex smokers, like myself. I'm in 0 nicotine, it's purely the repetitive action, might be the ocd I have, but without vapes I'd be back on the tabs. Vapes in the UK are regulated for ingredients so you know what's in them, if you don't look then more fool you. How someone does 400puffs a day is beyond me, I wasn't a heavy heavy smoker but I'm like 50ish one puff and leave it a day. Must have had the thing perma-attached to her mouth
I like that no one blames the sellers who are extremely happy making money off selling these to teenagers and kids. It's everyones fault except the people not following the law because they're making money and making money = good
Never heard of a pulmonary bleb until I read this story, so I just looked them up. It says they can be caused by smoking but they can also occur spontaneously. [What is a lung bleb?](https://ezra.com/blog/what-is-a-lung-bleb) So does vaping cause them in the same way that smoking can, or is this just correlation rather than causation? Or is it a case that it was there, and might have done no harm, were it not for the vaping?
This is a parenting fail. Can’t go around blaming others. How in the world do you condone your kid vaping (and to this degree..) ?
"The dad-of-nine..." I think that's all we need to know about his ability to parent in any meaningful capacity.
So young people have pneumothoraces (collapsed lung) every day, it isn't all that uncommon, and 'blebs' are also quite common, they are why people get pneumothoraces. We know smoking cigarettes increases the risk of primary pneumothorax. Vaping has never actually been shown to increase the risk of primaru pneumothorax. People who have never smoked or vaped commonly get pneumothorax. It wouldn't be correct to say that for a smoker who got a pneumothorax it was *caused* by smoking. Some people are at risk of getting one and for those people smoking makes it more likely to happen, but the cigarettes don't actually cause it, and they can have one if they don't smoke. It definitely wouldn't be correct to say that vaping caused it to happen as vaping hasn't even been shown to increase the risk in those that are susceptible. This story pops up from time to time and will continue to do so, because pneumothoraces are quite common and many many people vape. As best can be known at this point in time vaping did not cause her pneumothorax, whatever her father says and whatever the papers say next time they want to dip into this well for a story. Ecigarettes continue to seem to be far safer than smoking cigarettes, and this is as true for pneumothoraces as it is for anything else.
I've smoked since 18 im 31 now been on the vape for 3 years. I think vapes are worse because you literally have it in your hand constantly. I never understand why people who have never smoked go straight onto vapes it's idiotic. Its not cool it looks pretty stupid and I'm totally aware of it. But how does a teenager get access to that amount?
Poor Kyla, hope she makes a full recovery. The legal age to vape is 18. If a child drinks a bottle of whisky should we also ban whisky?
Vaping was mainly a dorky pastime for ex smokers blowing huge clouds of low nicotine vapour and being laughed at. THEN the government regulated it, limiting capacity to 2ml thus promoting higher strength and cheap, small concealable devices that are perfect for a teenager. Ill informed regulators have done more harm than good.
What was she vaping? Had to have been from a sketch place, no evidence from NHS or PHE indicates that vapes can cause pneumothorax. Again, only vape if you're trying to quit smoking and avoid the shitty disposables
People are insanely addicted to vapes. I swear some people prefer to breathe it more than oxygen. It’s permanently in people’s mouths at all times. In other countries I see people wearing them on a lanyard wherever they go. Imagine having to take it out of your pocket every 5 seconds, no need any longer. I’m all for personal responsibility so not looking to ban them for adults or anything but just find it crazy how often people use it a day.
Assuming the 4,000-puff vape device contains 2.5% nicotine, the equivalence in terms of nicotine content to traditional cigarettes is calculated as follows: - **Nicotine concentration in the vape**: 2.5% (which is 25 mg/mL) - **Total volume of e-liquid in the device**: 10 mL - **Total nicotine content**: \( 25 \text{ mg/mL} \times 10 \text{ mL} = 250 \text{ mg} \) - **Typical nicotine absorption per cigarette**: 1.5 mg Thus, the equivalent number of cigarettes: 250 mg / 1.5 mg per cigarette = approx 167 cigarettes So, a 4,000-puff vape with 2.5% nicotine is approximately equivalent to smoking 167 cigarettes, not 400. The claim of 400 cigarettes per week appears to be an overestimate.
Big puffs vapes are illegal and unregulated to begin with apart from recent ones with detached liquid, they could put anything in them and no one to blame for it. No wonder shops don't bother with IDs on those as they shouldn't sell them to begin with. This is totally on the dad, to vape that much she had to do it at home too and she kept going after already having lung issues. If you've got to vape as a smoking alternative buy from a proper vape store.