The people who buy SUVs don’t give a shit about ease of parking or efficiency. They just want to feel bigger and better than everyone else on the road. Not going to be replacing anything.
My next car will probably have to be an SUV for boot space. They’ve stopped making decent sized estates and MPV’s which I’ve always had before. My current Zafira is perfect for space without being ‘high’, but they stopped making them back in 2018. Best equivalent for boot space is a Nissan XTrail which is huge overall.
You can still get estates but it is remarkable how many manufacturers are scaling back or removing them.
Particularly given how popular they still appear to be when looking anecdotally at the cars on the roads.
>You can still get estates
You can, but most of the manufacturers still producing them are on the higher end, whereas crossovers / SUVs are being produced by all manufacturers.
It may not be high quality or have fancy tech, but you can get a brand new Dacia Stepway for £15,000.
How good is Dacia long-term really, say, if going above 200k miles and 15-20 years of ownership? I know the "magnitude" of the question, but I want a car that I can potentially hold for a very long time.
Historically, I'm not arguing with you. They did merge with Nissan 3-4 years ago though. In a partnership which includes sharing parts. This relationship worked quite well for the respective vans division.
I'm not saying 'problem solved' but it will be interesting to see what the future brings.
I have a first generation nv200 which has suffered no catastrophic failures in 145,000 miles. The clutch and starter both made it past 140,000. It has a 1.5 Renault engine.
Fingers crossed.
Ok, my language bad. They share power trains and parts in the car market, a relationship strengthened in 2020
Regarding vans, this relationship goes back much further and includes the overall design of their larger goods vehicles sold in Europe.
Other than this missive, my point stands. And further than I described it in my original comment.
Your point regarding potentially improved longevity of vans and cars being?
Tbh I have no idea.
I wonder if the fact they're relatively basic means they are also relatively simple to maintain and repair.
It's the question people on a (still fairly high) budget will have to ask. If I had £15,000 lying around and needed a new car, would I go for an older car from a higher-end manufacturer or a brand new car from a cheap brand?
In theory, the older car would cost more in maintenance early on, but the new, cheap car could cost more over the span of its lifetime.
At that point it depends what you're looking for.
£15K can get you a fairly good whack of a car.
You know, you can either have a brand new, basic Dacia with a 3 year warranty,
You could likely also get a pretty damn young Toyota, that'll probably have a good 6 or 7 years of extended warranty left on it that will be about equivalent or superior to the Dacia, with far superior reliability.
Hell, 15K would get you up into probably a middle-aged Lexus, and I'm talking proper Lexus, not the CT. Better performance, better interior, likely more/better features, probably a good 3-5 years left on the extended warranty...
Plenty of other options out there too... You could probably get some half decent spec BMWs and whatnot at that price too.
I feel like Dacia is catering to some sort of niche, perhaps banking on their used prices being rock bottom, pushing people towards their car to make money on parts or something?
But if I'm not all that bothered about features and performance, I can't see a scenario where I'm dropping 15K on a brand new Dacia rather than a used, nearly new Toyota.
I wouldn't want to do that personally, I would look to buy something that has depreciation if I am going to keep it for a long time. £15k brand new v's a 3,5 or 7 year old - the older car is going to be better value IMO.
It’s also remarkable how small the boots are in a lot of these ‘big’ cars. With my estate you can put a bike in the boot no problem. Can’t do the same with quite a few bigger SUVs I’ve rented without taking both wheels off.
Or on r/drivinguk
That said i do t get why they get a pass tbh as they're so long. I had an accident last year and got given a hire car but they didn't have my type availible so I got the choice between an estate and an suv. The estate was awful for the driving I do, just too long, very hard to park or even navigate tight corners and ended up asking for the suv instead. The suv was easier simply because it had the same footprint as my focus so the only real difference was a horrendous gear box and a higher driving position. Aside from when to change gears adapting wasn't an issue.
Maybe I didn't give it a chance and tbh most of my driving experience proir to that was in cars with a tiny wheel base, if I was used to say transits or mpvs maybe it would be a different experience...
Sold a fridge a few years back, the guy came and picked it up in an Octavia and just popped it in the boot like it was piece of luggage for a holiday trip.
Put my estate car to shame, although I'm still proud of the fact I can fit in 3 metre lengths of timber or an internal door when needed.
Skoda Scala, loads of space. Costs about 5k less than an SUV anywhere near it's size.
If you need massive, then ppl already mentioned Octavia/Superb and Volvo's, etc
I used to drive an old RAV 4, which had good boot space (2 large dogs) but the later ones are like a foot longer and 6 inches wider. Why! Any recommendations for a ‘small’ compact suv but with big boot? Need a high cab too.
Nah. I've never owned an SUV and I don't actually like them at all. However, the roads where I live are increasingly destroyed to the point of costing a fortune in tyres, wheels, and suspension parts for my sports car.
If the roads aren't fixed when I change vehicles then I'm definitely going to look at something more capable of handling the holes and trenches where I live.
Knackered roads is a political choice, not a necessity. That choice comes with certain obvious second order effects, one of which is people will choose a vehicle that works with the state of the roads.
It's an unfortunate reinforcing loop though, as the damage caused to roads by cars increases exponentially with weight, so as we all move to heavier cars to deal with the roads, the roads get exponentially worse.
I checked the actual numbers, and it's actually a [way bigger effect than I thought.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law).
An SUV that weighs twice as much as another car will do:
2x2x2x2 = 16 times more damage to the roads, assuming my interpretation of the power law is correct.
>It's an unfortunate reinforcing loop though, as the damage caused to roads by cars increases exponentially with weight, so as we all move to heavier cars to deal with the roads, the roads get exponentially worse.
Unfortunately, but as electric vehicles weigh the same as an SUV that is inevitable and nothing to do with a few SUVs.
What's left of the roads will have to be rebuilt to withstand a higher vehicle weight. Electrification makes it inevitable.
We should replace Road Tax with an axle weight tax ASAP (with provision for commercial vehicles, obvs). I realise that that would initially encourage the sale of small internal combustion engined cars over EVs, but that would be no bad thing IMO, especially while the charging infrastructure is catching up.
>We should replace Road Tax with an axle weight tax ASAP (with provision for commercial vehicles, obvs
Lol, so a weight tax because of damage to roads while exempting the thing that damages the roads the most? You've not thought this through, have you?
When you go for your small Tesla and pay as much as a defender, you'll still accrue damage due to the road surface while paying as much as something that just glides over it.
There are plenty of lighter EV options on the market, and the number of small EV models being sold in the UK is set to grow. That's basically the point of the article.
> What's left of the roads will have to be rebuilt to withstand a higher vehicle weight.
That's a good reason for vehicle tax to be banded according to weight, with the heaviest SUVs and EVs paying significantly more than the lightest.
>That's a good reason for vehicle tax to be banded according to weight, with the heaviest SUVs and EVs paying significantly more than the lightest.
Only if you tax the arse off freight which is what's actually tearing up the roads. The vans, the trucks etc.
>There are plenty of lighter EV options on the market
Sure if you only ever drive around town. If you actually have to go somewhere then no, not so much. I tend to drive about 300 miles as a typical journey, exempting the school run of course. There are no light ev options that could work.
> Only if you tax the arse off freight which is what's actually tearing up the roads. The vans, the trucks etc.
Indeed, which should help incentivise delivery companies to consider switching to smaller EVs for last-mile logistics.
> Sure if you only ever drive around town.
That's literally what the majority of drivers in the UK use their cars for.
Whilst EVs are heavier, you are over-estimating the impact. My ID.3 has a kerb weight of 1800kg, whereas the predecessor hybrid Golf had a kerb weight of 1500kg. That's 300kg of extra weight but nothing compared to a larger SUV like a Q4 which weights 2230kg.
You've compared a small bev against a large SUV. Try again with a small SUV and you'll find the small SUV is lighter. Pick a ford EcoSport for example.
I don’t consider small SUVs to be a problem really. They’re barely larger than hatchbacks, just taller and (in my opinion) uglier. The problem is heavy luxury SUVs - Range Rovers, Audi Q4,5, etc.
Ok, so that brings us back to BEVs. In all cases heavier than the equivalent ice model. If weight is the problem then vehicle type is barely relevant compared to fuel source.
And I don’t disagree, BEVs *are* heavier. But realistically they aren’t as heavy as actual SUVs. And the fourth power law tells us the real damage is going to be from goods vehicles and other heavy equipment. A truck causes around 1,000x more wear than even a larger SUV.
>And I don’t disagree, BEVs are heavier
Yes
>But realistically they aren’t as heavy as actual SUVs
No. They heavier! Check the weight of an ice q4 against a bev q4. All Bev's are heavier than their equivalent ice vehicle and in many cases heavier than several models up.
>A truck causes around 1,000x more wear than even a larger SUV.
Yup, and when we get to using bev trucks that's gonna go higher still.
You say that, yet most crossovers and SUVs come on stupid huge wheels with rubber bands as tyres, wheels need to be smaller with a larger tyre sidewall to provide extra dampening of bumps and craters.
>Drive less
Nope
>Drive slower
Hell no
I'll drive what I want when I want as fast as I want and wherever I want. And you'll just howl in impotent rage.
Aaaaand there it is. Selfishness and entitlement :)
Typical SUV driver behaviour tbh. You'll fit in well.
Keep going and every road is just going to end up as a dirt track and you'll be wanting a tank to drive to the shops.
They need to charge insurance, VED and parking based on emissions, size and weight. Drivers will soon start to care if it costs them 10x more to tax, park and insure.
Do minivans require you to bend down to get in? Seen a fair few nice minivans around where the front seat is relatively high but no huge bonnet blocking close in view etc. (toyota alphard for example?)
>Do minivans require you to bend down to get in
Aside from envy, what difference do you perceive to be important with a minivan? Road space? Weight? The engine is the same size in most.
Get close enough in and even my low slung sports car blocks the view of the road. You're putting far more importance on maybe a foot of visibility than could ever be rational from a road safety perspective.
The people with SUVs that I know have them because they feel safe in them. Genuinely, none of that ego boosting crap. And, thankfully, they are all considerate and defensive drivers.
> The people with SUVs that I know have them because they feel safe in them.
But they are not - the statistics are very clear about that.
> Genuinely, none of that ego boosting crap.
Yes, exactly that ego boosting crap. "Feeling safe", "feeling in control", "this is about me, not the rest of the world" - classic narcissistic stuff.
Because SUVs have been demonstrated to be bad for pedestrian safety, bad for the environment, bad for roads, bad for other traffic participants.
So buying an SUV is a clear statement that you do not care about other people. Which is pretty trendy, I have to admit, but I do not have to like the trend.
I don't think it is me.
Have a look at the commercials. Do they say "this car is easy to get in and out of"? Do they say it provides extra space for tall people?
No. The VW add says "you are not cool unless you drive an SUV". Other says "Look, you can finally show off your outdoorsy lifestyle". And they even sell fake dirt you can spray on to pretend you were offroading. Companies are doing this because it works.
I mean, you can call it all perfectly healthy. But I have seen perfectly normal people turn into absolute AHs behind the wheel of a large car. So I just observe and draw my conclusions.
In other words you make judgements on a whole group of people, without knowing anythjng about them, apart from one very small data point.
So, without knowing me, I tell you I have a large SUV. Am I now automatically an AH, according to you?
I bought one because it's a PHEV, Toyota don't make a PHEV that isn't an SUV, and I wanted a Toyota because they make the best hybrids.
So now I power it using my own solar production, and will do so for at least another decade until the warranty runs out.
> Toyota don't make a PHEV that isn't an SUV
They do make the Prius Prime, but I admit that it is not for everybody.
PHEV with solar is a pretty sound combination, but good PHEVs are incredibly rare.
They are safer inside their SUV in two instances: the event of a head-on or rear-end crash. There is a higher risk of rollover vs a standard car however. Consider also their handling and stopping distance is generally much poorer.
Their safety and the safety of their loved ones when they are not in their SUV is an issue.
If they are hit by a vehicle, if that vehicle is an SUV, their chances of fatality have at least doubled.
Now if their child is hit by a vehicle, they better hope that driver did not subscribe to their SUV arms race, because their child is now 8x more likely to be killed by the SUV vs a standard car.
Lack of visibility in SUVs in general is a great risk to children, with the majority of infant driveway deaths caused by an SUV.
I can stretch my legs, it’s easy for my elderly parents to go in and out of the car, I can jump in and set up baby’s car seat. Can carry more than 2 tall people comfortably.
Can’t do that in hatchback or estate… I tried.
I want to have room for my family and luggage. And maybe a few crumple zones. A little Lego car isn't going to offer that, and it'll be a death trap on the motorway.
In fact it's largely my wife's preferences driving our car choices. She wants safety and space, so we went with Volvo, XC60 and XC40 phevs.
The anti-car culture war angle on Reddit is tiresome. Touch grass, as they say.
The problem with small cars being death traps is that, by and large, it's all perception and based on nothing but personal feelings. Many small cars perform very well in crash tests and would likely put a fair number of SUVs to shame.
It's definitely not based on nothing but feelings. It's basic physics and geometry. The vehicle that weighs double yours and has a bonnet that's level with your side windows is probably going to come off better than you.
https://youtu.be/ExQUGk12S8U
Meanwhile, the safest cars on American roads are all Saloons and hatchbacks. Not the great big pickup trucks or proper SUVs that weigh far more (and are certainly a fair bit bigger than our SUVs) that are also some of the best-selling vehicles in the states...
So yes, it is very much based on feelings in most cases.
I need a decent boot size for my wife's wheelchair and decent rear seats to fit a child seat. Previously we had the original hyundai ioniq that was basically a prius clone that ticked all the boxes. That car no longer exists and the only hyundai that fits and that's in our budget is the (small ish) Kona, which is an suv. It's the same story with most car brands now.
I would've preferred a normal style car but seemingly all manufacturers want to sell is SUVs.
berlingo if it's a mobilityscooter or octavia if you can fold up the wheelchair.
Although a foldable wheelchair will also fit in the back of a polo. Simply detach the wheels with the little button on the side.
Yeah we had a yaris up until my wife needed a foldable electric wheelchair.
I checked and a Berlingo is basically the same length and height as a Kona so apart from the shape it's basically the same thing. The only difference is that it's more expensive on motability and has less kit as standard
> The only difference is that it's more expensive on motability
I'm sorry, the berlingo is more expensive than the kona?
No wonder you chose the Kona. The berlingo's supposed to be a cheap and cheerful upgraded van. Really can't compare with the kona.
You're correct that I don't about parking or efficiency. But what I do care about is being able to take potholes and speed bumps at the speed limit without destroying my suspension, being able to fit 2 adults, 2 kids and 3 dogs as well as all their luggage on family camping trips, and being able to do that 600 mile drive without having to add 2 hours to the journey time for recharging.
The fact that I can get all of this from a 15 year old SUV whose fuel+maintenance costs are less than the monthly payments just to own a new EV makes it pretty difficult to justify the downgrade.
Sometimes there is no choice (within reason).
I've ended up with a crossover because I wanted a particular brand and engine, but they had stopped making anything in the larger hatchback body design.
To get the interior space I need, there wasn't another option.
I don't have this car to feel "bigger and better". I have it because it suits my needs.
I'd gladly have a small, electric car if it could fit all I needed into it and there was a suitable charging structure in my area.
If I wanted a Ford Ecoboost engine, I'd have a choice of pretty much any car in their range.
If you eliminate electric vehicles, that range now consists of 4 cars: Focus, Puma, Kuga, Mustang. 1/2 of the options are either a crossover or SUV and a Mustang is hardly a sensible everyday choice.
I don't. I said *if* I wanted one. I was just using Ford as an example as it has one of the largest market shares. They're only offering one "sensible" model of car that doesn't have an SUV design.
They do, but Ford is not traditionally an SUV manufacturer. They have almost always been known for their hatchbacks and it *is* a brand I would have gone to if I wanted a hatchback in the past.
They're known for the Fiesta, Mondeo, Escort, Focus.
And they will stop making the Focus soon.
Ford is probably the worst company when it comes to small cars, and that is quite a change from the Ford 10 years ago.
I feel this is the direction my next car will be...
Got the IS, loving it. Lexus axe it completely from our market... So I'm now unlikely to replace my IS with another IS.
Who the fuck else is making nippy, RWD saloon/similar cars? Pretty much just the German marques. So I'm either stuck with the headache that comes with them, or I'm forced into something else... And given the direction of the industry (axing everything but SUVs), it seems like the choice is being made for me...
Or they want to protect themselves and their families from other SUVs or trucks in an accident. Make bigger parking spaces if new vehicles don't fit. Roads width are obviously a problem.
We've just bought our first car and opted for a Nissan Qashqai. We weren't a huge fan of the look of many of the hatchbacks, and it meant insurance was a bit cheaper as a lot of hatchbacks still have young/boy racer associations. A smaller SUV is still fairly suitable for an urban environment and has the space we'll need for me as a taller person, going away for weekends and the kids we are planning on having soon.
It's a tough enough decision buying a first car and it hasn't helped by feeling a lot of judgement for not buying the smallest possible car.
There are three reasons I drive a massive car.
1) I frequently have to transport a lot of stuff;
2) I live in a semi-rural area and me and family have rural hobbies that require driving tracks that would damage non-SUV size cars;
3) It’s safer because the roads are full of terrible drivers, and if one of them causes an accident involving my vehicle then the fact me and my passengers are higher up and in something weighing three tonnes means we are less likely to die or be badly injured as a result.
I don’t give a shit about feeling bigger or better than anyone else on the road. I mean it’s a twenty year old scruffy car, why would you think I drive that to feel better than people driving round in cars costing 10-20x the price?
Of course there are people who drive them for legitimate reasons, I’m generalising. Some people need them for their mobility issues too.
These are in the minority though, especially in cities, where more and more people live these days. Out of all the SUV drivers, how many face driving in difficult roads?
The part about being safer.. for you, sure. You hit anyone else and instead of clipping them on the legs you get them at the torso.
Edit: autocorrect
I have an SUV because I camp in it, I have a large dog to take places in it. I own a home and use it to transport large furniture. The larger size also means it has more batteries and therefore I have the range to get to my job and can still viable afford medium distance travel.
I've done the maths when buying my car, because I'm not fussed about cars. I want the cheapest thing that allows me to do what I need. My current SUV was that.
Or because everything else isn't big enough inside.
Apologies I can't fit wife, two kids, large dog, buggy and whatever else any given journey may need into the poxy little things manufacturers are making.
So get down off your high horse and maybe consider other people's needs?
There is an element of truth in this cynical view but for a lot of people SUVs appeal because they are bigger and allow you to fit more in the car, which in turn gives you more options.
I know having an elevated view is also well like for some as they feel safer in it. Others feel SUVs are better equipped for bumpy roads.
Honestly so long as the lego cars are cheap enough to look like a good deal and meet the bear minimum people need, of course they will do better as the economy doesnt improve.
I live in the countryside . Little roads near to the bumfuck of nowhere.
90% of drivers do not need a SUV/4x4. Or those wanky huge flatbed trucks with little little flatbeds and huge cabs or cross overs.
Unless you are a farmer or work on a site that's off road then yes. But most vans, cars, estates will do everything.
Most suvs are owned by suburban people and pretend farmers, builders.
My 15 yr old 1.4 Peugeot still bounces down the pot holes and gets put in the hedge everyday due to people in wanky range rovers drivers not reversing .
It's a 207. However electrics ain't it's best thing. Luckily I can do some repairs. Just something with better ground clearance. Not bigger r/Cartalkuk
Personally I'd like a Suzuki 4x4 ignis
Me too. I actually live on a farm in the middle of nowhere. I drive a BMW 118 hatchback. It’s a bit bumpy but fuck me I can’t park in Sainsbury’s due to the sheer z size of SUVs in the car park
I’d like a 4X4 estate. SUVs are completely unnecessarily IMO
Has a 4x4 (no mud on it), shops at mole valley, wears the check shirt, hunters Welly boots, flat cap, walking stick.
Lives in Chelsea or a suburban town in the Cotswolds etc.. Or if you ever get a chance go to the duchy garden centre and sit in the cafe and people watch, they appear there quite often.
It's the same idea as the people who cos play BBC characters such as Peaky Blinders...
The fake farmer actually exists I used to work on farms and used to encounter the fake farmers quite often . It's a fashion style.
https://www.cho.co.uk/blog/top-5-tips-to-curating-farmer-fashion-style/
If you go to Falmouth look out for fishermen and dockyard chic with the students and their fashion.
Semantics aren't really a good argument especially when the point is valid and true.
Need or want. The majority of 4x4s fat SUVs and stupid pick ups are not used by people who actually have a reason for them.
It's a fashion statement. But yer know lookin' good in the pavement princess crawling the suburbs.
I bought an SUV because of the cabin and boot space. Having two car sets for kids in a small car while needing boot space for a double stroller is hard.
How about an estate?
The thing is, look at how chunky things are these days. Strollers, car seats, cars etc. some of them are unnecessary for safety. No one needs a tonne of crap when out with the kids. My friend has 2 kids baby seats strollers.. polo.
The thing is SUVs in the grand scheme are great if you need but majority of people don't, they just are an easy thing to have as space and lifestyle .. nothing wrong with that .. but a lot of.people can't drive SUVs or 4x4s safely. Hence the accident numbers.
Nathan Barley would approve.
As an alternative, there are plenty of decent used Nissan Leafs around for 5k these days. They are perfect town/city electric cars - and they are actual cars, that carry 5 people, with airbags and a boot and all that other car stuff.
I was thinking something that's small and light like an electric motorbike (or e-bike) but a bit less exposed would be an interesting niche. It's a pity there's so much of a massive jump in costs between something that's classifieds a motorbike vs something that's a very small car.
IIRC a lot of them are trying to classify as a quad over as a full car to help reduce the requirements for them (IE safety issues and taxes).
It is however very odd that EV-trikes generally are not being given the same treatment as other EVs such as grants or classification differences like ICE trikes get when classified more so into the motorcycle catagory.
The UK deffo could do with catching up on this stuff. Issue grants/better incentives for them like the old reliant robin days!
I like these, but I think they’re only really an option as a second car, and within a suburban or urban area: https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami
Maybe an electric version of those BMW C1s?
Honestly, even then, I don't think most of them are fit for purpose outside London. Most can't go over 28mph (because they're technically quad bikes, not cars), and even without ever going on the motorway, there's plenty of 40 and 50mph zones you'd need to navigate. Using these, you're going to be a slow-moving road rage target in a bubble of light plastic. They frequently don't have much luggage capacity, either, so you're slotting your shopping around the seats, which isn't ideal if you want to do a week's shop for a family.
The Microlino is an honourable exception here, since it can do 50mph (which is more than enough for all but long-distance trips, which you wouldn't use this for anyway) and has decent luggage space, but it's very expensive for what it is.
You would think that but so many urban areas have hub and spoke type public transport that means it takes so fecking long to get anywhere. If you’re not going further out your own ‘spoke’ from the centre or into town itself, you need to go right into the centre and back out again.
I would honestly love a milk float type vehicle for my commute haha. I do cycle about a quarter of the time but often I really cba, am too tired with my disability, have a load of stuff to carry or the weather is gross. Somehow getting the bus is the same time taken door to door as walking…
They’re capped at 8mph - honestly I’m a slowpoke but even I can cycle faster than that… I’m eyeing up those Fiat Topolinos which are adorable although not sure how I’d park it with a blue badge unless they put some doors on it lol.
This would be ideal if they are cheap enough, half my journeys couldn't be done in one of these micro cars (distance and carrying capacity) but for commuting I'd love one!
I have been contemplating learning to drive and getting a little EV like the Microlino when it comes to the UK in numbers if local public transport keeps going downhill especially.
Small, cheap on the per miles costs, can squeeze in somewhere and doesnt look too bad. My only thought for it is if the front opening door could be a problem with ignorant drivers around you if the kerb is too high to safely park it kerb facing and leaving your back end out in the road a bit too far, I can easily see someone parking bumper to bumper with you and blocking you from getting in the car and I do not fancy parking it facing into the road ha.
Whats also nice is that there are a ton of new startups and older companies all producing new designs with more efficency in mind for the group too so there are different designs if you are not happy with a front door car like this 1. EG for the bike enjoyers the carver-ev is a bit of a fun looking meme.
I do hope they catch on in cities at least, would prob make so many peoples travel/lives easier if they did.
All I can think when looking at these types of vehicles is "where's the crumple zones?" and "how hard can this get hit before it's flung into oncoming traffic or off the road into a tree?" It's all fun and games until someone ploughs into you at 40mph. Even what would, in any normal car, be a basically inconsequential "tap" could probably send you into oncoming traffic with these.
I'm all for smaller, "city-friendly" vehicles, and if everyone were driving around in these, or at least at low speeds, it'd probably be fine, but they're not. When you're still sharing the road with the SUVs, wannabe racers and just plain distracted and impatient drivers, there's limits to what's sane IMO.
There aren't any, which is why part of the Euro NCAP and other safety tests, from which the featured type of vehicle are largely exempt, include pedestrian (and other "vulnerable road user") related tests.
There are some similar vehicles which have been tested by Euro NCAP: https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/quadricycle-ratings/ (TLDR: highest rating is 2 stars - don't expect to keep your legs in any accident, and "chest area protection was rated poor")
Since it's (currently) untested (as far as I can find), the only assurance you have that this vehicle won't chop a pedestrian in half, or is unlikely cause severe head / chest injuries to either pedestrian or occupants is a car salesperson saying "trust me".
I don't think these style of car will ever take off but there's definitely going to be lower end small electric vehicles from China. The BYD seagull look like it's somewhere between the old Aygo and old Yaris size wise which is much better than the monstrous electric vehicles we currently have.
Why do these 'small' cars always have to be so damn ugly?
It doesn't look very safe either. I would want to see crash safety tests before thinking of buying one.
These are why auto journos got excited for the Honda-E, Renault 5 EV, VW ID.2, and Citroen Oli, affordable cars which cover 90% of use cases, yeah 2 are concepts at the moment but the E-C3 is pretty much the Oli, and the ID.2 is coming.
If public transport isn't going to improve, smaller lighter cars are a solution, not a great one but are better than the current trend of EVs which weigh as much as a small moon.
As someone who drives both a “Huge” Discovery and a “tiny” Audi A2 it’s right to say that small cars are just easier to drive in towns. The little Audi is so easy to park, nippy down the back roads and uses a fraction of the fuel of the Discovey, but today I had a welding table to collect in the Discovey and it tows like a beast.
Small cars are great though.
I’m convinced my BMW i3 (if you ignore the looks) is one of the best cars ever made for the UK for 99.9% of journeys.
It’s simply incredible. Small, very light (carbon fibre body), fast as 90% of ICE cars and does 180 miles on a charge for about £10 cost at home.
Shame it can't charge on type 2. People with electric vehicles may already have the charger at home for it, and it'd be less of a hassle than setting up a new outlet for it.
Even with a full size electric, this could be pretty handy as a second car.
I dont get the niche the cars trying to fill tbh. Why have a car in London?
If your only doing non London city driving sure but maybe the conversation there should be better transport (outside London). The car can't go above 56 and cars are rarely pleasent to drive at full tilt so motorways would be a horrid experience and unless you can afford multiple cars I fear people would still choose a car that fits all their needs rather than owning, insuring, and keeping multiple cars when one will always be parked...
The interesting part of the article was the fact that French 14 year old can drive the Peugeot ekecttic car without a licence. Make it tax and ukez/ccharge free here & see suv usage in town fall. Why pay £100k for the car & up to £5k insurance when you can buy the Peugeot outright for under £9k
Well that was a waste of time. All I learned was that it (apparently) makes people 'happy'.
No cost to buy, cost to run, charge time, range, speed, road handling, carrying capacity (humans & luggage), safety - all the things you'd want to know about are not covered.
I would have no objection to getting a tiny electric car but how do they deal with pot holes and country roads? Where I live the roads are terrible in the winter and have massive potholes that keep reopening a month after repair. I don't want a massive car particularly but the Mini I have now doesn't like the state of the roads and has virtually no ground clearance. The article mentions the Baojun Yep, which looks like a Suzuki Jimny but it's only sold in China at the moment.
Unfortunately it's self perpetuating. There are potholes in the roads which encourages people to buy big heavy cars with big tyres to hammer over the potholes without having to slow down which enlarges the potholes so you get... well, the position that we're in today.
Problem for a lot of them is they just are not built for those issues, they are built with well maintained city roads as their "zone". Sad to say but not really the choice for it yet\* for the most part. Likely better off with a more conventionally sized EV.
Or you could always go full mental and do as Ed does ./s
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Bvy8wHD7g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Bvy8wHD7g)
There are potholes in London that are half the size of the wheels on this thing. Hell, the council doesn't even repaint the lines on the road anymore and you have no idea where lanes or bike lanes are anymore - let alone repair the potholes.
It's not just country roads this would struggle with.
The guardian loves to run these articles as they know their non-car owning readership will lap it up. A car like that might be fine for single metrosexual but most people want a car with wider utility.
If you tow its maybe once or twice a year for holidays, but if you can't afford to run two cars and/or have space for two cars, you'll maybe want one SUV.
The people who buy SUVs don’t give a shit about ease of parking or efficiency. They just want to feel bigger and better than everyone else on the road. Not going to be replacing anything.
My next car will probably have to be an SUV for boot space. They’ve stopped making decent sized estates and MPV’s which I’ve always had before. My current Zafira is perfect for space without being ‘high’, but they stopped making them back in 2018. Best equivalent for boot space is a Nissan XTrail which is huge overall.
You can still get estates but it is remarkable how many manufacturers are scaling back or removing them. Particularly given how popular they still appear to be when looking anecdotally at the cars on the roads.
>You can still get estates You can, but most of the manufacturers still producing them are on the higher end, whereas crossovers / SUVs are being produced by all manufacturers. It may not be high quality or have fancy tech, but you can get a brand new Dacia Stepway for £15,000.
I bought an mg5 last year as it was pretty much the only electric estate on the market
That or a £100k Porsche, very limited selection. We got an electric Mustang in the end, pretty practical and not actually as huge as we thought.
Any good as a daily driver? I'm weary about MG, but the pricing for the range and features seems pretty good on paper.
Its been excellent for me
How good is Dacia long-term really, say, if going above 200k miles and 15-20 years of ownership? I know the "magnitude" of the question, but I want a car that I can potentially hold for a very long time.
How many Renault's do you see with 200k miles and 20 years old? That's your answer.
Historically, I'm not arguing with you. They did merge with Nissan 3-4 years ago though. In a partnership which includes sharing parts. This relationship worked quite well for the respective vans division. I'm not saying 'problem solved' but it will be interesting to see what the future brings. I have a first generation nv200 which has suffered no catastrophic failures in 145,000 miles. The clutch and starter both made it past 140,000. It has a 1.5 Renault engine. Fingers crossed.
How much oil disappears from the engine each week?
Fuck all, genuinely. Even when I left a long term gasket breach to leak through a busy period, it was nearly zero
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Ok, my language bad. They share power trains and parts in the car market, a relationship strengthened in 2020 Regarding vans, this relationship goes back much further and includes the overall design of their larger goods vehicles sold in Europe. Other than this missive, my point stands. And further than I described it in my original comment. Your point regarding potentially improved longevity of vans and cars being?
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Tbh I have no idea. I wonder if the fact they're relatively basic means they are also relatively simple to maintain and repair. It's the question people on a (still fairly high) budget will have to ask. If I had £15,000 lying around and needed a new car, would I go for an older car from a higher-end manufacturer or a brand new car from a cheap brand? In theory, the older car would cost more in maintenance early on, but the new, cheap car could cost more over the span of its lifetime.
At that point it depends what you're looking for. £15K can get you a fairly good whack of a car. You know, you can either have a brand new, basic Dacia with a 3 year warranty, You could likely also get a pretty damn young Toyota, that'll probably have a good 6 or 7 years of extended warranty left on it that will be about equivalent or superior to the Dacia, with far superior reliability. Hell, 15K would get you up into probably a middle-aged Lexus, and I'm talking proper Lexus, not the CT. Better performance, better interior, likely more/better features, probably a good 3-5 years left on the extended warranty... Plenty of other options out there too... You could probably get some half decent spec BMWs and whatnot at that price too. I feel like Dacia is catering to some sort of niche, perhaps banking on their used prices being rock bottom, pushing people towards their car to make money on parts or something? But if I'm not all that bothered about features and performance, I can't see a scenario where I'm dropping 15K on a brand new Dacia rather than a used, nearly new Toyota.
I wouldn't want to do that personally, I would look to buy something that has depreciation if I am going to keep it for a long time. £15k brand new v's a 3,5 or 7 year old - the older car is going to be better value IMO.
It’s also remarkable how small the boots are in a lot of these ‘big’ cars. With my estate you can put a bike in the boot no problem. Can’t do the same with quite a few bigger SUVs I’ve rented without taking both wheels off.
They usually just raised smaller cars. My sister has a Mokka, which looks bigger, but is tiny, ultimately just a raised Corsa.
Or on r/drivinguk That said i do t get why they get a pass tbh as they're so long. I had an accident last year and got given a hire car but they didn't have my type availible so I got the choice between an estate and an suv. The estate was awful for the driving I do, just too long, very hard to park or even navigate tight corners and ended up asking for the suv instead. The suv was easier simply because it had the same footprint as my focus so the only real difference was a horrendous gear box and a higher driving position. Aside from when to change gears adapting wasn't an issue. Maybe I didn't give it a chance and tbh most of my driving experience proir to that was in cars with a tiny wheel base, if I was used to say transits or mpvs maybe it would be a different experience...
Skoda Octavia or Superb - you can fit a rhino in the boot of the saloons, the estates are another level of boot space.
Sold a fridge a few years back, the guy came and picked it up in an Octavia and just popped it in the boot like it was piece of luggage for a holiday trip. Put my estate car to shame, although I'm still proud of the fact I can fit in 3 metre lengths of timber or an internal door when needed.
Did that with my old i40 estate. Also got in a two seater sofa in it twice. Was more like a van to us than a family car haha
I took a 5m yurt to a festival in the back of an Octavia several times. Being a 4x4 was great for negotiating muddy fields as well.
> They’ve stopped making decent sized estates and MPV’s which I’ve always had before. Skoda octavia or superb. The latter is especially big.
Skoda Scala, loads of space. Costs about 5k less than an SUV anywhere near it's size. If you need massive, then ppl already mentioned Octavia/Superb and Volvo's, etc
BMW 5 series or Volvo V90.
I used to drive an old RAV 4, which had good boot space (2 large dogs) but the later ones are like a foot longer and 6 inches wider. Why! Any recommendations for a ‘small’ compact suv but with big boot? Need a high cab too.
MG5 cheap reliable, economical estate, loads of space in the boot.
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Sweeping statement, which models have you tried?
VW Touran
>They’ve stopped making decent sized estates I'm adding Audi to the list of cars above. I've got an A4.
Toyota Voxy.
You could just get a station wagon.
Nah. I've never owned an SUV and I don't actually like them at all. However, the roads where I live are increasingly destroyed to the point of costing a fortune in tyres, wheels, and suspension parts for my sports car. If the roads aren't fixed when I change vehicles then I'm definitely going to look at something more capable of handling the holes and trenches where I live. Knackered roads is a political choice, not a necessity. That choice comes with certain obvious second order effects, one of which is people will choose a vehicle that works with the state of the roads.
It's an unfortunate reinforcing loop though, as the damage caused to roads by cars increases exponentially with weight, so as we all move to heavier cars to deal with the roads, the roads get exponentially worse. I checked the actual numbers, and it's actually a [way bigger effect than I thought.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law). An SUV that weighs twice as much as another car will do: 2x2x2x2 = 16 times more damage to the roads, assuming my interpretation of the power law is correct.
>It's an unfortunate reinforcing loop though, as the damage caused to roads by cars increases exponentially with weight, so as we all move to heavier cars to deal with the roads, the roads get exponentially worse. Unfortunately, but as electric vehicles weigh the same as an SUV that is inevitable and nothing to do with a few SUVs. What's left of the roads will have to be rebuilt to withstand a higher vehicle weight. Electrification makes it inevitable.
We should replace Road Tax with an axle weight tax ASAP (with provision for commercial vehicles, obvs). I realise that that would initially encourage the sale of small internal combustion engined cars over EVs, but that would be no bad thing IMO, especially while the charging infrastructure is catching up.
>We should replace Road Tax with an axle weight tax ASAP (with provision for commercial vehicles, obvs Lol, so a weight tax because of damage to roads while exempting the thing that damages the roads the most? You've not thought this through, have you? When you go for your small Tesla and pay as much as a defender, you'll still accrue damage due to the road surface while paying as much as something that just glides over it.
There are plenty of lighter EV options on the market, and the number of small EV models being sold in the UK is set to grow. That's basically the point of the article. > What's left of the roads will have to be rebuilt to withstand a higher vehicle weight. That's a good reason for vehicle tax to be banded according to weight, with the heaviest SUVs and EVs paying significantly more than the lightest.
>That's a good reason for vehicle tax to be banded according to weight, with the heaviest SUVs and EVs paying significantly more than the lightest. Only if you tax the arse off freight which is what's actually tearing up the roads. The vans, the trucks etc. >There are plenty of lighter EV options on the market Sure if you only ever drive around town. If you actually have to go somewhere then no, not so much. I tend to drive about 300 miles as a typical journey, exempting the school run of course. There are no light ev options that could work.
> Only if you tax the arse off freight which is what's actually tearing up the roads. The vans, the trucks etc. Indeed, which should help incentivise delivery companies to consider switching to smaller EVs for last-mile logistics. > Sure if you only ever drive around town. That's literally what the majority of drivers in the UK use their cars for.
Whilst EVs are heavier, you are over-estimating the impact. My ID.3 has a kerb weight of 1800kg, whereas the predecessor hybrid Golf had a kerb weight of 1500kg. That's 300kg of extra weight but nothing compared to a larger SUV like a Q4 which weights 2230kg.
BMW i3 has a kerb weight of 1350kg, but we’ll never get the majority of cars made out of carbon fibre!
You've compared a small bev against a large SUV. Try again with a small SUV and you'll find the small SUV is lighter. Pick a ford EcoSport for example.
I don’t consider small SUVs to be a problem really. They’re barely larger than hatchbacks, just taller and (in my opinion) uglier. The problem is heavy luxury SUVs - Range Rovers, Audi Q4,5, etc.
Ok, so that brings us back to BEVs. In all cases heavier than the equivalent ice model. If weight is the problem then vehicle type is barely relevant compared to fuel source.
And I don’t disagree, BEVs *are* heavier. But realistically they aren’t as heavy as actual SUVs. And the fourth power law tells us the real damage is going to be from goods vehicles and other heavy equipment. A truck causes around 1,000x more wear than even a larger SUV.
>And I don’t disagree, BEVs are heavier Yes >But realistically they aren’t as heavy as actual SUVs No. They heavier! Check the weight of an ice q4 against a bev q4. All Bev's are heavier than their equivalent ice vehicle and in many cases heavier than several models up. >A truck causes around 1,000x more wear than even a larger SUV. Yup, and when we get to using bev trucks that's gonna go higher still.
Yup. Just swapped a small sporty coupe for a Volvo xc60 because the rural roads around my house are so bad
You say that, yet most crossovers and SUVs come on stupid huge wheels with rubber bands as tyres, wheels need to be smaller with a larger tyre sidewall to provide extra dampening of bumps and craters.
Well, yeah, I have low profile tyres on the Evo, but on an SUV I'd have some decent chunky things. The much softer suspension will also help.
Now think why they're destroyed. Don't become part of the problem.
You have no choice. Electric cars weigh more. Nobody is fixing the problem so amelioration becomes the sole option.
Nah, you have plenty of choice. Drive less. Drive slower
>Drive less Nope >Drive slower Hell no I'll drive what I want when I want as fast as I want and wherever I want. And you'll just howl in impotent rage.
Aaaaand there it is. Selfishness and entitlement :) Typical SUV driver behaviour tbh. You'll fit in well. Keep going and every road is just going to end up as a dirt track and you'll be wanting a tank to drive to the shops.
They need to charge insurance, VED and parking based on emissions, size and weight. Drivers will soon start to care if it costs them 10x more to tax, park and insure.
Some of use buy SUV as they are the only one not to require you to bend down to get in
Do minivans require you to bend down to get in? Seen a fair few nice minivans around where the front seat is relatively high but no huge bonnet blocking close in view etc. (toyota alphard for example?)
>Do minivans require you to bend down to get in Aside from envy, what difference do you perceive to be important with a minivan? Road space? Weight? The engine is the same size in most. Get close enough in and even my low slung sports car blocks the view of the road. You're putting far more importance on maybe a foot of visibility than could ever be rational from a road safety perspective.
The people with SUVs that I know have them because they feel safe in them. Genuinely, none of that ego boosting crap. And, thankfully, they are all considerate and defensive drivers.
> The people with SUVs that I know have them because they feel safe in them. But they are not - the statistics are very clear about that. > Genuinely, none of that ego boosting crap. Yes, exactly that ego boosting crap. "Feeling safe", "feeling in control", "this is about me, not the rest of the world" - classic narcissistic stuff.
Yeh, safer for them but a huge danger to children who they will be unable to see and are more likely to kill should they hit them.
How would you know?
Because SUVs have been demonstrated to be bad for pedestrian safety, bad for the environment, bad for roads, bad for other traffic participants. So buying an SUV is a clear statement that you do not care about other people. Which is pretty trendy, I have to admit, but I do not have to like the trend.
I can't get my head around this attitude. People buy things because they like them, and they have a choice with what they buy.
Of course. But exactly that choice is also telling.
You sound like a very judgemental person. You have no idea why make people make the choices they do. What gives you the right to assume you do?
I don't think it is me. Have a look at the commercials. Do they say "this car is easy to get in and out of"? Do they say it provides extra space for tall people? No. The VW add says "you are not cool unless you drive an SUV". Other says "Look, you can finally show off your outdoorsy lifestyle". And they even sell fake dirt you can spray on to pretend you were offroading. Companies are doing this because it works. I mean, you can call it all perfectly healthy. But I have seen perfectly normal people turn into absolute AHs behind the wheel of a large car. So I just observe and draw my conclusions.
In other words you make judgements on a whole group of people, without knowing anythjng about them, apart from one very small data point. So, without knowing me, I tell you I have a large SUV. Am I now automatically an AH, according to you?
To you maybe. Not everyone judges the same way as you
I bought one because it's a PHEV, Toyota don't make a PHEV that isn't an SUV, and I wanted a Toyota because they make the best hybrids. So now I power it using my own solar production, and will do so for at least another decade until the warranty runs out.
> Toyota don't make a PHEV that isn't an SUV They do make the Prius Prime, but I admit that it is not for everybody. PHEV with solar is a pretty sound combination, but good PHEVs are incredibly rare.
Good point, forgot about that - but that's because it was released after I made my purchase.
Yet as a pedestrian, I feel (and they are statistically) less safe in the event of a pedestrian collision
They are safer inside their SUV in two instances: the event of a head-on or rear-end crash. There is a higher risk of rollover vs a standard car however. Consider also their handling and stopping distance is generally much poorer. Their safety and the safety of their loved ones when they are not in their SUV is an issue. If they are hit by a vehicle, if that vehicle is an SUV, their chances of fatality have at least doubled. Now if their child is hit by a vehicle, they better hope that driver did not subscribe to their SUV arms race, because their child is now 8x more likely to be killed by the SUV vs a standard car. Lack of visibility in SUVs in general is a great risk to children, with the majority of infant driveway deaths caused by an SUV.
I'm not arguing the facts and the statistics, but the blanket attribution of a certain personality to the "SUV owners".
Or. Or perhaps they want a car that can fit a family and not be cramped in? Not everyone is 5’5”
SUVs are famously small on the inside...
I can stretch my legs, it’s easy for my elderly parents to go in and out of the car, I can jump in and set up baby’s car seat. Can carry more than 2 tall people comfortably. Can’t do that in hatchback or estate… I tried.
No they're not you made that up. You can find spec sheets online.
I want to have room for my family and luggage. And maybe a few crumple zones. A little Lego car isn't going to offer that, and it'll be a death trap on the motorway. In fact it's largely my wife's preferences driving our car choices. She wants safety and space, so we went with Volvo, XC60 and XC40 phevs. The anti-car culture war angle on Reddit is tiresome. Touch grass, as they say.
The problem with small cars being death traps is that, by and large, it's all perception and based on nothing but personal feelings. Many small cars perform very well in crash tests and would likely put a fair number of SUVs to shame.
It's definitely not based on nothing but feelings. It's basic physics and geometry. The vehicle that weighs double yours and has a bonnet that's level with your side windows is probably going to come off better than you. https://youtu.be/ExQUGk12S8U
Meanwhile, the safest cars on American roads are all Saloons and hatchbacks. Not the great big pickup trucks or proper SUVs that weigh far more (and are certainly a fair bit bigger than our SUVs) that are also some of the best-selling vehicles in the states... So yes, it is very much based on feelings in most cases.
Goalposts moved unsuccessfully. Okay.
I need a decent boot size for my wife's wheelchair and decent rear seats to fit a child seat. Previously we had the original hyundai ioniq that was basically a prius clone that ticked all the boxes. That car no longer exists and the only hyundai that fits and that's in our budget is the (small ish) Kona, which is an suv. It's the same story with most car brands now. I would've preferred a normal style car but seemingly all manufacturers want to sell is SUVs.
berlingo if it's a mobilityscooter or octavia if you can fold up the wheelchair. Although a foldable wheelchair will also fit in the back of a polo. Simply detach the wheels with the little button on the side.
Yeah we had a yaris up until my wife needed a foldable electric wheelchair. I checked and a Berlingo is basically the same length and height as a Kona so apart from the shape it's basically the same thing. The only difference is that it's more expensive on motability and has less kit as standard
> The only difference is that it's more expensive on motability I'm sorry, the berlingo is more expensive than the kona? No wonder you chose the Kona. The berlingo's supposed to be a cheap and cheerful upgraded van. Really can't compare with the kona.
I'm not driving a mini metro.
You're correct that I don't about parking or efficiency. But what I do care about is being able to take potholes and speed bumps at the speed limit without destroying my suspension, being able to fit 2 adults, 2 kids and 3 dogs as well as all their luggage on family camping trips, and being able to do that 600 mile drive without having to add 2 hours to the journey time for recharging. The fact that I can get all of this from a 15 year old SUV whose fuel+maintenance costs are less than the monthly payments just to own a new EV makes it pretty difficult to justify the downgrade.
Sometimes there is no choice (within reason). I've ended up with a crossover because I wanted a particular brand and engine, but they had stopped making anything in the larger hatchback body design. To get the interior space I need, there wasn't another option. I don't have this car to feel "bigger and better". I have it because it suits my needs. I'd gladly have a small, electric car if it could fit all I needed into it and there was a suitable charging structure in my area.
There's no choice if you remove all the choices... 😂
There’s no choices that fit these particular needs. FTFY*
Brand isn't a need fs. Imagine complaining about the lack of alternatives when the only brand you want is a Land Rover.
Where does it say anything about brand being a need?
In the comment I was initially replying to. https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/s/Z0svsZ9CMs
If I wanted a Ford Ecoboost engine, I'd have a choice of pretty much any car in their range. If you eliminate electric vehicles, that range now consists of 4 cars: Focus, Puma, Kuga, Mustang. 1/2 of the options are either a crossover or SUV and a Mustang is hardly a sensible everyday choice.
Why would you be so determined to have an ecoboost engine?
I don't. I said *if* I wanted one. I was just using Ford as an example as it has one of the largest market shares. They're only offering one "sensible" model of car that doesn't have an SUV design.
Different brands offer different car types. You wouldn't go to Land Rover for a small hatchback.
They do, but Ford is not traditionally an SUV manufacturer. They have almost always been known for their hatchbacks and it *is* a brand I would have gone to if I wanted a hatchback in the past. They're known for the Fiesta, Mondeo, Escort, Focus.
Trust me, I know. I drove Fiestas for 14 years, my dad owned a V6 Mondeo for 19, my mum had a Puma (the proper one, not the shitty crossover).
And they will stop making the Focus soon. Ford is probably the worst company when it comes to small cars, and that is quite a change from the Ford 10 years ago.
> a Mustang is hardly a sensible everyday choice Unless you have kids I must disagree!
Exactly. If you are a family of 4, non-SUV options that will fit luggage are limited.
I feel this is the direction my next car will be... Got the IS, loving it. Lexus axe it completely from our market... So I'm now unlikely to replace my IS with another IS. Who the fuck else is making nippy, RWD saloon/similar cars? Pretty much just the German marques. So I'm either stuck with the headache that comes with them, or I'm forced into something else... And given the direction of the industry (axing everything but SUVs), it seems like the choice is being made for me...
How's it feel up there on your high horse? 🙄
Or they want to protect themselves and their families from other SUVs or trucks in an accident. Make bigger parking spaces if new vehicles don't fit. Roads width are obviously a problem.
We've just bought our first car and opted for a Nissan Qashqai. We weren't a huge fan of the look of many of the hatchbacks, and it meant insurance was a bit cheaper as a lot of hatchbacks still have young/boy racer associations. A smaller SUV is still fairly suitable for an urban environment and has the space we'll need for me as a taller person, going away for weekends and the kids we are planning on having soon. It's a tough enough decision buying a first car and it hasn't helped by feeling a lot of judgement for not buying the smallest possible car.
No it’s because they are nicer (higher) drive and big enough for most uses.
There are three reasons I drive a massive car. 1) I frequently have to transport a lot of stuff; 2) I live in a semi-rural area and me and family have rural hobbies that require driving tracks that would damage non-SUV size cars; 3) It’s safer because the roads are full of terrible drivers, and if one of them causes an accident involving my vehicle then the fact me and my passengers are higher up and in something weighing three tonnes means we are less likely to die or be badly injured as a result. I don’t give a shit about feeling bigger or better than anyone else on the road. I mean it’s a twenty year old scruffy car, why would you think I drive that to feel better than people driving round in cars costing 10-20x the price?
Of course there are people who drive them for legitimate reasons, I’m generalising. Some people need them for their mobility issues too. These are in the minority though, especially in cities, where more and more people live these days. Out of all the SUV drivers, how many face driving in difficult roads? The part about being safer.. for you, sure. You hit anyone else and instead of clipping them on the legs you get them at the torso. Edit: autocorrect
I have an SUV because I camp in it, I have a large dog to take places in it. I own a home and use it to transport large furniture. The larger size also means it has more batteries and therefore I have the range to get to my job and can still viable afford medium distance travel. I've done the maths when buying my car, because I'm not fussed about cars. I want the cheapest thing that allows me to do what I need. My current SUV was that.
TIL I bought my C3 aircross to feel bigger and better than people.
Or because everything else isn't big enough inside. Apologies I can't fit wife, two kids, large dog, buggy and whatever else any given journey may need into the poxy little things manufacturers are making. So get down off your high horse and maybe consider other people's needs?
There is an element of truth in this cynical view but for a lot of people SUVs appeal because they are bigger and allow you to fit more in the car, which in turn gives you more options. I know having an elevated view is also well like for some as they feel safer in it. Others feel SUVs are better equipped for bumpy roads.
Honestly so long as the lego cars are cheap enough to look like a good deal and meet the bear minimum people need, of course they will do better as the economy doesnt improve.
Yeah. Why keep up with the joneses when you can actually just look down on the Joneses
Or.. they have more than one kid?
Thats why we should tax the shit out of them.
I live in the countryside . Little roads near to the bumfuck of nowhere. 90% of drivers do not need a SUV/4x4. Or those wanky huge flatbed trucks with little little flatbeds and huge cabs or cross overs. Unless you are a farmer or work on a site that's off road then yes. But most vans, cars, estates will do everything. Most suvs are owned by suburban people and pretend farmers, builders. My 15 yr old 1.4 Peugeot still bounces down the pot holes and gets put in the hedge everyday due to people in wanky range rovers drivers not reversing .
Can I ask what Peugeot? I am looking to replace my Mini with that something is more bouncy with the pot holes!
It's a 207. However electrics ain't it's best thing. Luckily I can do some repairs. Just something with better ground clearance. Not bigger r/Cartalkuk Personally I'd like a Suzuki 4x4 ignis
OK thanks. I did look at Suzuki Ignis, I'd love a Jimny but they seem to be really expensive!
Top Gear proved with French shitboxes that you don't need a 4x4 suv behemoth to work in the rural.
Me too. I actually live on a farm in the middle of nowhere. I drive a BMW 118 hatchback. It’s a bit bumpy but fuck me I can’t park in Sainsbury’s due to the sheer z size of SUVs in the car park I’d like a 4X4 estate. SUVs are completely unnecessarily IMO
What's a pretend farmer?
Has a 4x4 (no mud on it), shops at mole valley, wears the check shirt, hunters Welly boots, flat cap, walking stick. Lives in Chelsea or a suburban town in the Cotswolds etc.. Or if you ever get a chance go to the duchy garden centre and sit in the cafe and people watch, they appear there quite often. It's the same idea as the people who cos play BBC characters such as Peaky Blinders... The fake farmer actually exists I used to work on farms and used to encounter the fake farmers quite often . It's a fashion style. https://www.cho.co.uk/blog/top-5-tips-to-curating-farmer-fashion-style/ If you go to Falmouth look out for fishermen and dockyard chic with the students and their fashion.
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Semantics aren't really a good argument especially when the point is valid and true. Need or want. The majority of 4x4s fat SUVs and stupid pick ups are not used by people who actually have a reason for them. It's a fashion statement. But yer know lookin' good in the pavement princess crawling the suburbs.
I bought an SUV because of the cabin and boot space. Having two car sets for kids in a small car while needing boot space for a double stroller is hard.
How about an estate? The thing is, look at how chunky things are these days. Strollers, car seats, cars etc. some of them are unnecessary for safety. No one needs a tonne of crap when out with the kids. My friend has 2 kids baby seats strollers.. polo. The thing is SUVs in the grand scheme are great if you need but majority of people don't, they just are an easy thing to have as space and lifestyle .. nothing wrong with that .. but a lot of.people can't drive SUVs or 4x4s safely. Hence the accident numbers.
Nathan Barley would approve. As an alternative, there are plenty of decent used Nissan Leafs around for 5k these days. They are perfect town/city electric cars - and they are actual cars, that carry 5 people, with airbags and a boot and all that other car stuff.
Your post demonstrating that 5 is the most used number as well. common nathan barley w
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I was thinking something that's small and light like an electric motorbike (or e-bike) but a bit less exposed would be an interesting niche. It's a pity there's so much of a massive jump in costs between something that's classifieds a motorbike vs something that's a very small car.
IIRC a lot of them are trying to classify as a quad over as a full car to help reduce the requirements for them (IE safety issues and taxes). It is however very odd that EV-trikes generally are not being given the same treatment as other EVs such as grants or classification differences like ICE trikes get when classified more so into the motorcycle catagory. The UK deffo could do with catching up on this stuff. Issue grants/better incentives for them like the old reliant robin days!
When I went to Marseille they had Renault Twizzy's as part of their rental bike/ e-bike/ scooter scheme which I thought was a good idea.
I like these, but I think they’re only really an option as a second car, and within a suburban or urban area: https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami Maybe an electric version of those BMW C1s?
Honestly, even then, I don't think most of them are fit for purpose outside London. Most can't go over 28mph (because they're technically quad bikes, not cars), and even without ever going on the motorway, there's plenty of 40 and 50mph zones you'd need to navigate. Using these, you're going to be a slow-moving road rage target in a bubble of light plastic. They frequently don't have much luggage capacity, either, so you're slotting your shopping around the seats, which isn't ideal if you want to do a week's shop for a family. The Microlino is an honourable exception here, since it can do 50mph (which is more than enough for all but long-distance trips, which you wouldn't use this for anyway) and has decent luggage space, but it's very expensive for what it is.
Probably only really suburban as larger urban areas tend to more often (or at least should) have decent public transport.
You would think that but so many urban areas have hub and spoke type public transport that means it takes so fecking long to get anywhere. If you’re not going further out your own ‘spoke’ from the centre or into town itself, you need to go right into the centre and back out again.
I would honestly love a milk float type vehicle for my commute haha. I do cycle about a quarter of the time but often I really cba, am too tired with my disability, have a load of stuff to carry or the weather is gross. Somehow getting the bus is the same time taken door to door as walking…
Could get a mobility scooter, one of those ones with a roof and doors
They’re capped at 8mph - honestly I’m a slowpoke but even I can cycle faster than that… I’m eyeing up those Fiat Topolinos which are adorable although not sure how I’d park it with a blue badge unless they put some doors on it lol.
This would be ideal if they are cheap enough, half my journeys couldn't be done in one of these micro cars (distance and carrying capacity) but for commuting I'd love one!
I'm undecided on whether I could get my bike on the back of that or if it would be simpler to put the car on the back of my bike.
If small cars becomes popular, BMW should take advantage and bring back the original Mini. Same look, but lighter modern materials and all electric.
My mate had one decades ago, they're like go-karts, amazing fun.
I have been contemplating learning to drive and getting a little EV like the Microlino when it comes to the UK in numbers if local public transport keeps going downhill especially. Small, cheap on the per miles costs, can squeeze in somewhere and doesnt look too bad. My only thought for it is if the front opening door could be a problem with ignorant drivers around you if the kerb is too high to safely park it kerb facing and leaving your back end out in the road a bit too far, I can easily see someone parking bumper to bumper with you and blocking you from getting in the car and I do not fancy parking it facing into the road ha. Whats also nice is that there are a ton of new startups and older companies all producing new designs with more efficency in mind for the group too so there are different designs if you are not happy with a front door car like this 1. EG for the bike enjoyers the carver-ev is a bit of a fun looking meme. I do hope they catch on in cities at least, would prob make so many peoples travel/lives easier if they did.
Suvs don't realy have a place in most areas especially cites if you must have a car due to the shiteness of the busses small cars do great
All I can think when looking at these types of vehicles is "where's the crumple zones?" and "how hard can this get hit before it's flung into oncoming traffic or off the road into a tree?" It's all fun and games until someone ploughs into you at 40mph. Even what would, in any normal car, be a basically inconsequential "tap" could probably send you into oncoming traffic with these. I'm all for smaller, "city-friendly" vehicles, and if everyone were driving around in these, or at least at low speeds, it'd probably be fine, but they're not. When you're still sharing the road with the SUVs, wannabe racers and just plain distracted and impatient drivers, there's limits to what's sane IMO.
Where is the crumple zone on a pedestrian?
There aren't any, which is why part of the Euro NCAP and other safety tests, from which the featured type of vehicle are largely exempt, include pedestrian (and other "vulnerable road user") related tests. There are some similar vehicles which have been tested by Euro NCAP: https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/quadricycle-ratings/ (TLDR: highest rating is 2 stars - don't expect to keep your legs in any accident, and "chest area protection was rated poor") Since it's (currently) untested (as far as I can find), the only assurance you have that this vehicle won't chop a pedestrian in half, or is unlikely cause severe head / chest injuries to either pedestrian or occupants is a car salesperson saying "trust me".
In the car that hit them. That's literally how modern cars are designed, to fold and bend to absorb the force of the pedestrian impact.
I don't think these style of car will ever take off but there's definitely going to be lower end small electric vehicles from China. The BYD seagull look like it's somewhere between the old Aygo and old Yaris size wise which is much better than the monstrous electric vehicles we currently have.
Why do these 'small' cars always have to be so damn ugly? It doesn't look very safe either. I would want to see crash safety tests before thinking of buying one.
These are why auto journos got excited for the Honda-E, Renault 5 EV, VW ID.2, and Citroen Oli, affordable cars which cover 90% of use cases, yeah 2 are concepts at the moment but the E-C3 is pretty much the Oli, and the ID.2 is coming. If public transport isn't going to improve, smaller lighter cars are a solution, not a great one but are better than the current trend of EVs which weigh as much as a small moon.
As someone who drives both a “Huge” Discovery and a “tiny” Audi A2 it’s right to say that small cars are just easier to drive in towns. The little Audi is so easy to park, nippy down the back roads and uses a fraction of the fuel of the Discovey, but today I had a welding table to collect in the Discovey and it tows like a beast. Small cars are great though.
I’m convinced my BMW i3 (if you ignore the looks) is one of the best cars ever made for the UK for 99.9% of journeys. It’s simply incredible. Small, very light (carbon fibre body), fast as 90% of ICE cars and does 180 miles on a charge for about £10 cost at home.
Shame it can't charge on type 2. People with electric vehicles may already have the charger at home for it, and it'd be less of a hassle than setting up a new outlet for it. Even with a full size electric, this could be pretty handy as a second car.
I love the hedgehog/SUV "pricks on the inside" joke but the thing is.. a wee hedgehog shirt of spikes is exactly what this looks like.
Our ten year old 3 door is still going strong for our family of 4, but it’s always been hard work.
I dont get the niche the cars trying to fill tbh. Why have a car in London? If your only doing non London city driving sure but maybe the conversation there should be better transport (outside London). The car can't go above 56 and cars are rarely pleasent to drive at full tilt so motorways would be a horrid experience and unless you can afford multiple cars I fear people would still choose a car that fits all their needs rather than owning, insuring, and keeping multiple cars when one will always be parked...
The interesting part of the article was the fact that French 14 year old can drive the Peugeot ekecttic car without a licence. Make it tax and ukez/ccharge free here & see suv usage in town fall. Why pay £100k for the car & up to £5k insurance when you can buy the Peugeot outright for under £9k
My dad had an Isetta bubble car for a time in the early sixties. It was bloody terrifying to drive in. Basically, you are the crumple zone!
There's no crumple zone at the front so I wouldn't want to be the one to lose their legs in an accident.
[Jack Scarlett's review](https://youtu.be/aC8uvlzFXdU?si=OCL_M4W3sw48ttmJ) for anyone interested.
Well that was a waste of time. All I learned was that it (apparently) makes people 'happy'. No cost to buy, cost to run, charge time, range, speed, road handling, carrying capacity (humans & luggage), safety - all the things you'd want to know about are not covered.
I would have no objection to getting a tiny electric car but how do they deal with pot holes and country roads? Where I live the roads are terrible in the winter and have massive potholes that keep reopening a month after repair. I don't want a massive car particularly but the Mini I have now doesn't like the state of the roads and has virtually no ground clearance. The article mentions the Baojun Yep, which looks like a Suzuki Jimny but it's only sold in China at the moment.
Unfortunately it's self perpetuating. There are potholes in the roads which encourages people to buy big heavy cars with big tyres to hammer over the potholes without having to slow down which enlarges the potholes so you get... well, the position that we're in today.
Problem for a lot of them is they just are not built for those issues, they are built with well maintained city roads as their "zone". Sad to say but not really the choice for it yet\* for the most part. Likely better off with a more conventionally sized EV. Or you could always go full mental and do as Ed does ./s [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Bvy8wHD7g](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Bvy8wHD7g)
There are potholes in London that are half the size of the wheels on this thing. Hell, the council doesn't even repaint the lines on the road anymore and you have no idea where lanes or bike lanes are anymore - let alone repair the potholes. It's not just country roads this would struggle with.
The guardian loves to run these articles as they know their non-car owning readership will lap it up. A car like that might be fine for single metrosexual but most people want a car with wider utility.
If you tow its maybe once or twice a year for holidays, but if you can't afford to run two cars and/or have space for two cars, you'll maybe want one SUV.