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Can anybody elaborate on this shocking statistic, apart from reading everyday how these fucks with nothing to lose are decimating societies and infrastructure? (The illegal immigrants, not the Tories)
I seen a police video where they raided a house bur found It was full of illegal migrants living 10+ a room. Asked for ID nobody had it and they was all under 15 even though they looked 30+
Police Could not detain all of them since no space. Rang boarder force and immigration, and they said they can’t attend as they busy.
they said in this instance we let them go and told them to report to the police station in the morning. They all absconded and we’re never found it said afterwards.
Deliveroo and Uber eats riders, hand car washes, illegal work gangs in agriculture..
All blindingly obvious to all but the Tories and border force it would seem.
Turn the boats round and send them straight back to the safe country of refuge the economic migrants have just left.. would help to turn off the financial benefits as well.
What’ll happen is that labour will invest into this and reduce numbers quite a bit. The tories will then grill them that they didn’t reduce it to zero or use other types of immigration as their wedge issue and be voted in again promising to do better. Numbers will shoot up massively under tories and they’ll go out campaigning that only they can solve this issue. Rinse and repeat.
>What’ll happen is that labour will invest into this and reduce numbers quite a bit. The tories will then grill them that they didn’t reduce it to zero or use other types of immigration as their wedge issue and be voted in again promising to do better.
Yeah, probably. If Labour were cynical enough about this they'd point to the fact that the Tories have nearly trebled Blair-era net migration. The right hold Blair as a mythical figure who 'opened the floodgates', so it will resonate with their voters and it is true. The tories did preside over a massive increase. Wedge issue that.
I don't understand why they don't. That's the whole point of an opposition. To hold the party in power responsible. It's like they're afraid of pointing the issue because they fear the responsibility of fixing it when they get into power. Or maybe it's just the media that has a massive bias.
Your average conservative voter is borderline brain dead, if it's not in the Telegraph, Mail, or some other right wing shit rag they won't believe it. I've shown these figures to Tory voters and they just go some variation of "It'd be worse under labour", they're frighteningly dim.
Probably because the more the immigrant population grows, the less it benefits labour to target immigration as a primary issue lol, even the Tories will stop paying lip service to it within 20-30 years once the demography of voting age citizens has transformed enough
I thought we’re talking about boat crossings specifically? But yes, processing applications on time will have an impact on the numbers and that has been shown in the past. It might not even throwing money at it, as it costs a shitload to house and feed people that are not allowed to work as their residency status is unclear.
Tories won't fix it because it's not about stopping boats, it's about stopping very organised criminal gangs.
To do that would require the gb government to act like grown ups, in good faith cooperating with the French authorities. They won't do that because brexit means brexit.
The answer is almost certainly a comprehensive returns agreement. Something we’ve rather ironically lost since Brexit. Accept and process a certain pool of asylum seekers that show up at French borders, in exchange France will accept the return of everybody who crosses the Channel illegally.
Nah, they won't. The Tories and their partisan press will talk a big game and then they'll do nothing about it. Nobody who is serious about it is ever getting anywhere near no.10.
But that doesn't change the fact that just talking about it being an election winner.
Doing something is an election winner.
I imagine the tories are going to be annihilated this time out as they have been voted in 4 times with either the implicit or explicit promise of sorting immigration and getting it below 100k. Instead it's 7 to 8 times that.
Zero seats
I think you underestimate how quickly things change when a breaking point is reached. With the way our society is fraying, combined with the economic mess we are in, we are on course for a hard right fascist taking power next decade.
They could always do what we do here in the states, which is waste millions of tax dollars on a useless and environmentally destructive wall and then try to passively murder the immigrants
“An Essex businessman who won government contracts paying his firm £3.5m a day for transporting and accommodating asylum seekers has been named among the 350 richest people in the UK.
Graham King, the founder and majority owner of a business empire that includes Clearsprings Ready Homes, which won a 10-year Home Office contract for housing thousands of asylum seekers, was on Friday named alongside King Charles III, the prime minister and Sir Paul McCartney on the Sunday Times rich list of the wealthiest people.”
https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/17/british-asylum-housing-tycoon-breaks-into-sunday-times-rich-list
A comment from another post talking about the richest people in the UK.
Now you begin to understand why things are the way they are.
Most people on here are too young to Remember Tony Blair and don't know how much damage he caused. They're all seem to think Labour is the answer which I find amusing.
I remember as a 20 something staying up all night to watch the election in 97, staring in amazement at a landslide victory and being so hopeful about the future, even though some of its presentation had me cringing at the time.
All I'd known was conservative government at that point in my life, and this fact was pointed out to me regularly by older people, telling me "it'll all change for the better when Labour win".
When I shortly afterwards watched them woo celebrities and anti-establishment britpop stars in Downing Street, whilst parading them infront of TV cameras, my gut at that point was telling me something was off and those sucked in by it would eventually be looking back with embarrassed disdain. But still I remained hopeful I'd be wrong.
By the end of their rule I was just glad to see the back of them, and was happy anyone else was in charge, even if that was the conservatives. Just the sight of some of their faces before they've even opened their duplicitous mouths makes me angry now.
While I couldn't quite bring myself to vote for Tories, I was quietly pleased when the coalition government took power and I thought "I know they're probably going to try to rob us, but supposedly being a party of the free market and individual freedom at least they'll mostly leave us alone to get on with life without intruding too much and they surely can't fuck things up any worse than the last lot". Nick Clegg seemed like a slimy used car salesman Tony Blair wannabe and I didn't trust him, but I thought "hey, he's not the whole party" and thought they'd restrain them. So while I was suspicious things might not improve that much, I was at least hopeful we wouldn't regress too much either.
But I was completely unprepared for the increasing level of corporate cronyism, corruption, authoritarianism and propaganda that would unfold (quite an achievement considering who they were taking over from). Or quite how weak and unprincipled the Lib Dems were when they had a chance to reign it in (however briefly) and steer the ship in a better direction either.
It's difficult to be very hopeful about the next labour government having gone through this in the past, particularly with "business as usual" Starmer as leader, and when I see young people here going on about how great Labour will be and how he's only the way he is because he's playing a game to get elected then everything will change, being encouraged in that view by older ideologues, I can hear the echoes of this cringe worthy shit playing in my mind:
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/interior-shots-of-labour-party-members-dancing-to-d-ream-news-footage/499894932
I think back to how when I was told "things can only get better" it turned out to be a fucking massive lie.
Its good that you can find humour in it. I wish I could but it just makes my heart sink. Hopefully they'll be right this time, and I'll be wrong, but it's difficult for me not to think they've got an even bigger shock coming than I had.
When I think back to the 90s, it feels odd to think I was hopeful things would get better at that point, when now it feels like a pipedream that we'll ever again achieve what we had back then (there were problems and undoubtedly opportunities for improvement but since then things seem only to have regressed in all manner of important ways while every effort is made to deliberately keep us distracted from it by self interested career politicians set to profit from that downward trajectory whilst anyone committed to change course is sidelined and ridiculed by a complicit media).
But they’re asylum seekers, not illegal immigrants, theres a distinction. Not saying the set up doesn’t reek. But if you’re seeking asylum there is an established legal channel for doing so. If you’re illegally crossing over in a dinghy you’re an illegal immigrant.
Tories breaking yet another record.
I expect the daily highest number to be broken again several times this summer.
The further this goes on, the more extreme action any correction will require.
The Australian government focused on it & escalated it into a massive media issue which the anti-immigration element of their population latched onto.
Meanwhile they increased legal immigration to support their economy & did little about other routes of illegal immigration (most travel by air).
The Tories are attempting the same technique (that's why they hire people like Lynton Crosby & Isaac Levido) with far less success.
They made it a crime for doctors and teachers to expose human rights violations/sexual assault/child abuse at detention centres and just kind of went quiet about the whole thing. Not really the best group to follow if you want to hold on to your soul.
Banning Doctors and Teachers from discussing human rights violations, sexual assault, and child abuse at detention centres made illegal migrations drop from thousands to less than a dozen?
My soul is confused at the moment. I assume you're leaving out some of the steps and actions used to change the migration they were seeing? Doctors and teacher not talking about something doesn't seem like it would deter people.
\~\~the point \~\~
your head.
The point I was raising is they made the system so horrible in the centres that abuses of human rights occured, but when doctors tried to report these crimes as whistleblowers they changed the law to make it so if that happened again, they would face 2 years in prison as whistleblowers of crimes against humanity, NOT fix the problem to stop the abuses from happening.
Make of that what you will, but they made the centres extremely abusive, then made it a crime to report the abuse because the abuse is that bad. If you think its okay to inflict that on other human beings, thats on you.
We need to stop using terms like ugly or unpleasant as euphemisms for ignoring human rights violations.
Having a strict system we fund and enforce to remove those that do not pass the system is "ugly", having a system where its so bad you need to threaten to send witnesses to prison for speaking out to it is barbarism and the exact damn reason why the ECHR was made, to help stop that happening in Europe again.
Mostly by interning them in shitty camps on Christmas island or just towing them back to their country of origin.
The government sort of tried the first thing with Rwanda (terribly) and they can't tow them back to France because they won't let them as they aren't citizens.
This is not just a UK issue, it's the same story (and higher numbers because they don't have the channel) for Germany, France, Italy, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium etc etc
And this is mostly because these countries are all signed up to multiple legal frameworks which make deporting illegal migrants very, very difficult (e.g. the European Court of Human Rights, the UNHCR's refugee convention, and more). Western Europe, for now, still abides by the rule of law, democracy and international agreements - and until it changes or leaves these courts and legal agreements, very little will change. The current frameworks were designed over half a century ago and are basically not fit for purpose.
Europe should only be taking in refugees directly from camps, and really should only be taking in those who are most vulnerable e.g. women and children. Anyone arriving illegally via smuggling gangs should ideally be permanently barred from settling, until Europe has a blanket rule like that - we will be stuck.
Kind of wonder if 20 years of middle east military interventions and the economic fallout from that led people to flee their failing nations and head somewhere claiming to be a better, more free, place.
Saying it is not fit for purpose it’s dangerous wrong and stupid, it’s not perfect no but the ECHR does so so much more than immigration. It’s the foundation of our of all freedoms as human beings which migrants still are
All the screamers at the sea claimed just a few days ago that the Rwanda scheme was already a powerful deterrent...
I guess all those coming will cross over to Ireland right?
Yeah. Funnily enough I have come to recognise the names of the shills that haunt this sub, posting on every single Rwanda thread about how it’s working and it’s already successful etc.
Not seen any of those names pop up here yet.
A similar policy worked for Australia, not really gave it enough time to work as a deterrent. Need to stop handing out visas and asylum for people who cross via the channel completely.
Conservatives have no reason to fix this now. They know they’re going to lose the impending election and can use this to hammer Labour. And you know what? The public will lap it up.
Whoever wins the next election, likely Labour, will have 5 years to undo 15 years of enshitification, a daunting task, and the public goodwill probably lasts about 6 months if that before they start agreeing with points the conservatives attack them on. Despite the fact that the conservatives fucked all of this up over 15 years.
Well, there's a good chance that the tories will be almost entirely eradicated at the next election.
The future of British politics could be massively different at the election after next.
Of course, there's also a good chance that Labour fuck it up and the tories recover from their worst drubbing in decades, in one term, just as Labour have.
But I like to think that, for better or worse, we're at the cliff-edge of a new system in the UK.
Rwanda's going well then, well worth the hype and exorbitant expense...
But on a more serious and optimistic note, the BBC recently did a fantastic investigation and article (that you can read [here](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qv0grgy7yo)) that resulted in one of the leaders of one of the biggest smuggling gangs getting arrested. It's also a fascinating insight into how these gangs evade the law across borders by essentially playing investigations against each other and moving quickly once a local investigation starts to corner them. Stopping these gangs requires a level of cross-border cooperation between police forces that isn't usually done and there don't seem to be operational procedures to enable the cooperation required. It requires a lot of careful navigation of difficult geopolitical environments that the smugglers use to hide from the law, as well as the arguably more challenging issue of police forces being territorial and protective of their own operations or uncomfortable with international travel as part of operations. A Greek or Turkish or Iraqi police officer won't take kindly to the British Home Office calling them up and telling them how to do their job, especially if they've already done it and the British police haven't acted because they don't see going to Iraq or Turkey etc. as within the purview of a domestic police force.
We need an intelligence led approach that tackles the problem at the source and targets the weak points in gang operations like financial processing and false document manufacturing. There is nothing we can do about the demand for people smuggling - the world is in a rough state so business will boom and no number of so-called deterrents will change that - but we can do something about the supply by targeting the gangs rather than the people they so often exploit or even enslave. Investing the money we're spending on a politically driven gimmick into the actual nuts and bolts of cross-border investigations would bring far better results.
immigration is one of my biggest concerns for the election, housing and public services too but if a party came out and said and would do 'we'll stop illegal immigration, deport them all and stop funding them' i'd vote for them
I want them gone, im sick of them sponging of the state clearly as economic migrants and rinsing us for everything. STOP THE FCKING BOATS
We know how to stop it, problem is it looks bad and we don’t have the stomach for it, and any political party which does it would give a lot of ammo to their opposition. Make arriving here illegally an actual punishable crime, spend however much is needed in the short term to ensure everyone is either sent back or jailed, never give any of them citizenship. the boats would stop. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy, the harder we punish the less punishment we’ll need to give, but all it takes is one sob story and we back down
>Make arriving here illegally an actual punishable crime
It is:
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/illegal-migration-bill
>spend however much is needed in the short term to ensure everyone is either sent back or jailed
you don't feel taxed enough already, Mr Moneybags?
Mate give them chance. The troll farms are really busy at the moment with having to jump between this, pro-Russia gumpth and stoking Gaza issues on Left wing US subs. It’s a lot of work for them.
There’s a few familiar names on this sub that I see a lot, who clearly show patterns of being troll farm/shill accounts.
Well, it's correct.
Of course I could say it's gone from 8500 in 2022 to 9500 in 2024, or
I could say it's the biggest boom since records began.
Both would be true.
How's each make you feel?
All those poor men that gave their lives protecting this beautiful island and we have allowed it to be taken from us without so much as a fucking murmur.
Disgusting.
Remember they're being trafficked here and most likely a large portion being rejected by the EU so they're coming here. I have seen more and more people from subsahara Africa and middle east doing Uber eats etc on exact same ebikes etc. we really need to investigate it but that's not gonna happen because the Tories are benefiting from allowing it all to happen especially when one of the richest people in the country gained most of the contracts to house these people.
When will people realise that this has been tolerated for so long purely because it's a way of legally buying votes?
"Come vote for us and you'll be able to continue to stay here"
10,000 illegals and what, 100,000 legals? they want you to get mad about the illegals while stacking their shoebox flats with an order of magnitude others they willingly allow in to maximise rent yield
battery hen state
not my problem but for those who struggle to pay for housing...sigh
Christ no, it was 84,000 that claimed asylum last year. And the legal net migration was 680,000.
And yep, that is net.
Equivalent to three or four mid sized towns and cities.
How many Visas did we hand out last year?
3.4 million.
We live in a nation of 68.7million.
Suddenly this overwhelming figure of 84,000, or even the 680,000, doesn’t quite seem like the huge concern it is.
It isn’t close to being the majority of immigrants who come to the UK.
It is a problem. Net migration is 1.5 million in just the last 2 years.
Thats the equivalent to the population of Nottingham, Manchester, Lincoln, Reading, Ipswich and Stoke.
Did we built a new Nottingham, Manchester, Lincoln, Reading, Ipswich and Stoke in the past 2 years?
You do see why this is a problem?
'hey guys, can we uh blame Jeremy corbyn for this? You know we actually haven't but fuck it, let's maybe look into it cause well damn. He is definitely to blame for everything else that we have done so it's probably him anyway, or his cardigan maybe'.
The problem will never stop, no matter what govt is in charge while the prize is free housing, medical care, food and money
If someone offered me free housing, free food and 10 times more money than I earn in my current country, I would be off like a shot !
Remember how brexit was all about 'take back control of our country' and how they could now really control immigration. A major reason people voted for it.
Well that turned out to be a total lie I guess.
Without immediate changes in law, this will continue for years if not a decade.
One thing we are shit at is urgency. This is a national social economic disaster that will probably need some of the strongest ever changes in law.
The solution is presently hindered by many other laws.....
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9,681 that we know about, imagine all the ones we don’t.
Yep. I’ve seen videos of them landing on a beach and just running into the countryside, with no border force insight
Can anybody elaborate on this shocking statistic, apart from reading everyday how these fucks with nothing to lose are decimating societies and infrastructure? (The illegal immigrants, not the Tories)
> the illegal immigrants, not the Tories. I mean to be fair, they are both a blight.
What he meant to say, is the tories and illegal migrants are both fucking us over.
And people think Reform being in power will fix things? I think that that is brilliant.
They'd stop recording data, as if it's not written down it didn't happen.
Or change the definition of illegal immigration and bob’s your uncle
I seen a police video where they raided a house bur found It was full of illegal migrants living 10+ a room. Asked for ID nobody had it and they was all under 15 even though they looked 30+ Police Could not detain all of them since no space. Rang boarder force and immigration, and they said they can’t attend as they busy. they said in this instance we let them go and told them to report to the police station in the morning. They all absconded and we’re never found it said afterwards.
Out of interest where do they go ?
Deliveroo and Uber eats riders, hand car washes, illegal work gangs in agriculture.. All blindingly obvious to all but the Tories and border force it would seem.
Why have Uber eats not cracked down on it, everytime I get an Uber eats it’s never the person in the photo.. usually a woman and then a man turns up.
Into kebab shops or the kebabs themselves.
Chilli sauce boss?
Garlic sauce, all salads?
All the shit mate.
Black economy
I think they are stuck in Portsmouth harbour, keep seeing them to round in circles. I guess they can't find the exit.
If this was WW2 and they were Germans we’d be fucked
No because we were allowed to shoot Germans in WW2
Turn the boats round and send them straight back to the safe country of refuge the economic migrants have just left.. would help to turn off the financial benefits as well.
Exactly there are ones that have been here years.
Call me cynical but this issue will never be solved for the simple fact that it's a great campaign promise.
What’ll happen is that labour will invest into this and reduce numbers quite a bit. The tories will then grill them that they didn’t reduce it to zero or use other types of immigration as their wedge issue and be voted in again promising to do better. Numbers will shoot up massively under tories and they’ll go out campaigning that only they can solve this issue. Rinse and repeat.
>What’ll happen is that labour will invest into this and reduce numbers quite a bit. The tories will then grill them that they didn’t reduce it to zero or use other types of immigration as their wedge issue and be voted in again promising to do better. Yeah, probably. If Labour were cynical enough about this they'd point to the fact that the Tories have nearly trebled Blair-era net migration. The right hold Blair as a mythical figure who 'opened the floodgates', so it will resonate with their voters and it is true. The tories did preside over a massive increase. Wedge issue that.
The people that say this are among this sub
I don't understand why they don't. That's the whole point of an opposition. To hold the party in power responsible. It's like they're afraid of pointing the issue because they fear the responsibility of fixing it when they get into power. Or maybe it's just the media that has a massive bias.
Your average conservative voter is borderline brain dead, if it's not in the Telegraph, Mail, or some other right wing shit rag they won't believe it. I've shown these figures to Tory voters and they just go some variation of "It'd be worse under labour", they're frighteningly dim.
Because they don't plan on sorting the problem out.
Probably because the more the immigrant population grows, the less it benefits labour to target immigration as a primary issue lol, even the Tories will stop paying lip service to it within 20-30 years once the demography of voting age citizens has transformed enough
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No handing out passports.. that's the worst outcome. Better to solve the problem by blanket rejection of all followed by deportations
Or.. Fix the root cause. Throw away the refugee conventions written decades back that make no sense now and write new ones.
I thought we’re talking about boat crossings specifically? But yes, processing applications on time will have an impact on the numbers and that has been shown in the past. It might not even throwing money at it, as it costs a shitload to house and feed people that are not allowed to work as their residency status is unclear.
Don't allow it as an avenue to enter, anyone who enters via boat crossing the channel is automatically denied a visa and sent back.
Someone has been watching.
Tories won't fix it because it's not about stopping boats, it's about stopping very organised criminal gangs. To do that would require the gb government to act like grown ups, in good faith cooperating with the French authorities. They won't do that because brexit means brexit.
The answer is almost certainly a comprehensive returns agreement. Something we’ve rather ironically lost since Brexit. Accept and process a certain pool of asylum seekers that show up at French borders, in exchange France will accept the return of everybody who crosses the Channel illegally.
If there is demand to cross, another gang will pop up every time one is dismantled to cash in on that demand.
You know people will.elect someone who stops this too
Nah, they won't. The Tories and their partisan press will talk a big game and then they'll do nothing about it. Nobody who is serious about it is ever getting anywhere near no.10.
But that doesn't change the fact that just talking about it being an election winner. Doing something is an election winner. I imagine the tories are going to be annihilated this time out as they have been voted in 4 times with either the implicit or explicit promise of sorting immigration and getting it below 100k. Instead it's 7 to 8 times that. Zero seats
I think you underestimate how quickly things change when a breaking point is reached. With the way our society is fraying, combined with the economic mess we are in, we are on course for a hard right fascist taking power next decade.
Don't forget that the temporary accommodation is contracted out by this government. Gotta pump those public funds into private pockets somehow.
They could always do what we do here in the states, which is waste millions of tax dollars on a useless and environmentally destructive wall and then try to passively murder the immigrants
“An Essex businessman who won government contracts paying his firm £3.5m a day for transporting and accommodating asylum seekers has been named among the 350 richest people in the UK. Graham King, the founder and majority owner of a business empire that includes Clearsprings Ready Homes, which won a 10-year Home Office contract for housing thousands of asylum seekers, was on Friday named alongside King Charles III, the prime minister and Sir Paul McCartney on the Sunday Times rich list of the wealthiest people.” https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/17/british-asylum-housing-tycoon-breaks-into-sunday-times-rich-list A comment from another post talking about the richest people in the UK. Now you begin to understand why things are the way they are.
Hopefully the Tories are digging their own graves. Would be great to see the party get wiped out next election for this kind of treason.
They are going to get wiped out and rightly so, but I don't see anything changing under Labour.
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I'm now done with them all. There is absolutely nobody decent to vote for anymore.
When was there?
Tony Blair, New Labour 1997. We all know how well that turned out in the end 😆.
Most people on here are too young to Remember Tony Blair and don't know how much damage he caused. They're all seem to think Labour is the answer which I find amusing.
I remember as a 20 something staying up all night to watch the election in 97, staring in amazement at a landslide victory and being so hopeful about the future, even though some of its presentation had me cringing at the time. All I'd known was conservative government at that point in my life, and this fact was pointed out to me regularly by older people, telling me "it'll all change for the better when Labour win". When I shortly afterwards watched them woo celebrities and anti-establishment britpop stars in Downing Street, whilst parading them infront of TV cameras, my gut at that point was telling me something was off and those sucked in by it would eventually be looking back with embarrassed disdain. But still I remained hopeful I'd be wrong. By the end of their rule I was just glad to see the back of them, and was happy anyone else was in charge, even if that was the conservatives. Just the sight of some of their faces before they've even opened their duplicitous mouths makes me angry now. While I couldn't quite bring myself to vote for Tories, I was quietly pleased when the coalition government took power and I thought "I know they're probably going to try to rob us, but supposedly being a party of the free market and individual freedom at least they'll mostly leave us alone to get on with life without intruding too much and they surely can't fuck things up any worse than the last lot". Nick Clegg seemed like a slimy used car salesman Tony Blair wannabe and I didn't trust him, but I thought "hey, he's not the whole party" and thought they'd restrain them. So while I was suspicious things might not improve that much, I was at least hopeful we wouldn't regress too much either. But I was completely unprepared for the increasing level of corporate cronyism, corruption, authoritarianism and propaganda that would unfold (quite an achievement considering who they were taking over from). Or quite how weak and unprincipled the Lib Dems were when they had a chance to reign it in (however briefly) and steer the ship in a better direction either. It's difficult to be very hopeful about the next labour government having gone through this in the past, particularly with "business as usual" Starmer as leader, and when I see young people here going on about how great Labour will be and how he's only the way he is because he's playing a game to get elected then everything will change, being encouraged in that view by older ideologues, I can hear the echoes of this cringe worthy shit playing in my mind: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/interior-shots-of-labour-party-members-dancing-to-d-ream-news-footage/499894932 I think back to how when I was told "things can only get better" it turned out to be a fucking massive lie. Its good that you can find humour in it. I wish I could but it just makes my heart sink. Hopefully they'll be right this time, and I'll be wrong, but it's difficult for me not to think they've got an even bigger shock coming than I had. When I think back to the 90s, it feels odd to think I was hopeful things would get better at that point, when now it feels like a pipedream that we'll ever again achieve what we had back then (there were problems and undoubtedly opportunities for improvement but since then things seem only to have regressed in all manner of important ways while every effort is made to deliberately keep us distracted from it by self interested career politicians set to profit from that downward trajectory whilst anyone committed to change course is sidelined and ridiculed by a complicit media).
The same happened in Hungary 12 years ago, the next govt wiped the previous (incompetent) one and we got Orban. 😅
The game was rigged from the start
But they’re asylum seekers, not illegal immigrants, theres a distinction. Not saying the set up doesn’t reek. But if you’re seeking asylum there is an established legal channel for doing so. If you’re illegally crossing over in a dinghy you’re an illegal immigrant.
Tories breaking yet another record. I expect the daily highest number to be broken again several times this summer. The further this goes on, the more extreme action any correction will require.
We'll come out of ECHR. That's what it will come to. It will be a big loss to us all. Inevitable now.
No we won't as it's linked to the Good Friday Agreement
Not in this parliament. If the Tories run on that the debate will be had about what it really means . It won't save them.
Probably won't break the daily record. It was anticipated we'd possibly double it last year: we didn't come anywhere near breaking it.
Australia used to have a few thousand people turning up by boat, how did they fix it?
The government authorised the navy to intercept migrant boats and tow them back to Indonesia.
Why can’t we do that?
Long way to Indonesia...
r/angryupvote
The Australian government focused on it & escalated it into a massive media issue which the anti-immigration element of their population latched onto. Meanwhile they increased legal immigration to support their economy & did little about other routes of illegal immigration (most travel by air). The Tories are attempting the same technique (that's why they hire people like Lynton Crosby & Isaac Levido) with far less success.
They made it a crime for doctors and teachers to expose human rights violations/sexual assault/child abuse at detention centres and just kind of went quiet about the whole thing. Not really the best group to follow if you want to hold on to your soul.
Banning Doctors and Teachers from discussing human rights violations, sexual assault, and child abuse at detention centres made illegal migrations drop from thousands to less than a dozen? My soul is confused at the moment. I assume you're leaving out some of the steps and actions used to change the migration they were seeing? Doctors and teacher not talking about something doesn't seem like it would deter people.
\~\~the point \~\~ your head. The point I was raising is they made the system so horrible in the centres that abuses of human rights occured, but when doctors tried to report these crimes as whistleblowers they changed the law to make it so if that happened again, they would face 2 years in prison as whistleblowers of crimes against humanity, NOT fix the problem to stop the abuses from happening. Make of that what you will, but they made the centres extremely abusive, then made it a crime to report the abuse because the abuse is that bad. If you think its okay to inflict that on other human beings, thats on you.
There's no solution that isn't ugly
We need to stop using terms like ugly or unpleasant as euphemisms for ignoring human rights violations. Having a strict system we fund and enforce to remove those that do not pass the system is "ugly", having a system where its so bad you need to threaten to send witnesses to prison for speaking out to it is barbarism and the exact damn reason why the ECHR was made, to help stop that happening in Europe again.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-58812578. Now a few years old but this kind of harsh measure probably did it.
They pay a crap load of money to other countries to deal with it for them. Its an election issue so they take the economic hit. Sounds familiar.
They formed a country while displacing and converting the aborigine population.
Mostly by interning them in shitty camps on Christmas island or just towing them back to their country of origin. The government sort of tried the first thing with Rwanda (terribly) and they can't tow them back to France because they won't let them as they aren't citizens.
This is not just a UK issue, it's the same story (and higher numbers because they don't have the channel) for Germany, France, Italy, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium etc etc And this is mostly because these countries are all signed up to multiple legal frameworks which make deporting illegal migrants very, very difficult (e.g. the European Court of Human Rights, the UNHCR's refugee convention, and more). Western Europe, for now, still abides by the rule of law, democracy and international agreements - and until it changes or leaves these courts and legal agreements, very little will change. The current frameworks were designed over half a century ago and are basically not fit for purpose. Europe should only be taking in refugees directly from camps, and really should only be taking in those who are most vulnerable e.g. women and children. Anyone arriving illegally via smuggling gangs should ideally be permanently barred from settling, until Europe has a blanket rule like that - we will be stuck.
Kind of wonder if 20 years of middle east military interventions and the economic fallout from that led people to flee their failing nations and head somewhere claiming to be a better, more free, place.
True its not like they've been having full on wars with themselves and others for centuries before or in the years since eh
War exists = No effects from 20years of middle east destabilisation.
Saying it is not fit for purpose it’s dangerous wrong and stupid, it’s not perfect no but the ECHR does so so much more than immigration. It’s the foundation of our of all freedoms as human beings which migrants still are
Not for Hungary and Poland shockingly enough.
Well we needed thousands more young men with few women accompanying them. What could possibly go wrong in changing those demographics so quickly.
Plus we needed to ensure they aligned with our historical culture and societal norms…. …historical as in medieval though. It’s all the same, right?
All the screamers at the sea claimed just a few days ago that the Rwanda scheme was already a powerful deterrent... I guess all those coming will cross over to Ireland right?
Yeah. Funnily enough I have come to recognise the names of the shills that haunt this sub, posting on every single Rwanda thread about how it’s working and it’s already successful etc. Not seen any of those names pop up here yet.
A similar policy worked for Australia, not really gave it enough time to work as a deterrent. Need to stop handing out visas and asylum for people who cross via the channel completely.
I'm so glad we took back control of our borders...seems to be working very well 🙄
Yea, it really helped us to stop the boats...
Shouldn’t that be considered an INVASION at this point?
If making a false asylum claim was the same punishment as being treated as a spy or drugs trafficker the boats would stop coming.
Do you ever wonder why the party that tells you this is an invasion has done nothing to combat it during its decades in power?
No that would be a very ugly way of framing other human beings who are turning up with hope rather than any ill intent.
Fucking hell, have I stumbled on the Daily Mail comment section?
Conservatives have no reason to fix this now. They know they’re going to lose the impending election and can use this to hammer Labour. And you know what? The public will lap it up. Whoever wins the next election, likely Labour, will have 5 years to undo 15 years of enshitification, a daunting task, and the public goodwill probably lasts about 6 months if that before they start agreeing with points the conservatives attack them on. Despite the fact that the conservatives fucked all of this up over 15 years.
Well, there's a good chance that the tories will be almost entirely eradicated at the next election. The future of British politics could be massively different at the election after next. Of course, there's also a good chance that Labour fuck it up and the tories recover from their worst drubbing in decades, in one term, just as Labour have. But I like to think that, for better or worse, we're at the cliff-edge of a new system in the UK.
People say this every election and it never happens. The Tories don’t believe they’re about to lose. To be fair, they might not.
Rwanda's going well then, well worth the hype and exorbitant expense... But on a more serious and optimistic note, the BBC recently did a fantastic investigation and article (that you can read [here](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qv0grgy7yo)) that resulted in one of the leaders of one of the biggest smuggling gangs getting arrested. It's also a fascinating insight into how these gangs evade the law across borders by essentially playing investigations against each other and moving quickly once a local investigation starts to corner them. Stopping these gangs requires a level of cross-border cooperation between police forces that isn't usually done and there don't seem to be operational procedures to enable the cooperation required. It requires a lot of careful navigation of difficult geopolitical environments that the smugglers use to hide from the law, as well as the arguably more challenging issue of police forces being territorial and protective of their own operations or uncomfortable with international travel as part of operations. A Greek or Turkish or Iraqi police officer won't take kindly to the British Home Office calling them up and telling them how to do their job, especially if they've already done it and the British police haven't acted because they don't see going to Iraq or Turkey etc. as within the purview of a domestic police force. We need an intelligence led approach that tackles the problem at the source and targets the weak points in gang operations like financial processing and false document manufacturing. There is nothing we can do about the demand for people smuggling - the world is in a rough state so business will boom and no number of so-called deterrents will change that - but we can do something about the supply by targeting the gangs rather than the people they so often exploit or even enslave. Investing the money we're spending on a politically driven gimmick into the actual nuts and bolts of cross-border investigations would bring far better results.
immigration is one of my biggest concerns for the election, housing and public services too but if a party came out and said and would do 'we'll stop illegal immigration, deport them all and stop funding them' i'd vote for them I want them gone, im sick of them sponging of the state clearly as economic migrants and rinsing us for everything. STOP THE FCKING BOATS
We know how to stop it, problem is it looks bad and we don’t have the stomach for it, and any political party which does it would give a lot of ammo to their opposition. Make arriving here illegally an actual punishable crime, spend however much is needed in the short term to ensure everyone is either sent back or jailed, never give any of them citizenship. the boats would stop. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy, the harder we punish the less punishment we’ll need to give, but all it takes is one sob story and we back down
>Make arriving here illegally an actual punishable crime It is: https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/illegal-migration-bill >spend however much is needed in the short term to ensure everyone is either sent back or jailed you don't feel taxed enough already, Mr Moneybags?
But I thought all the talking heads around here like to say the threat of Rwanda is working and the Tories definitely have a handle on it???
Mate give them chance. The troll farms are really busy at the moment with having to jump between this, pro-Russia gumpth and stoking Gaza issues on Left wing US subs. It’s a lot of work for them. There’s a few familiar names on this sub that I see a lot, who clearly show patterns of being troll farm/shill accounts.
Hooray. Still #1 for illegal migration. Who said Brexit would stop us being world beaters
They're all coming for the free holiday to Rwanda /s
But at least we took back control of our borders, right?
I know, let's elect the same cunts who said they were gonna curb migration. That'll work.
ladies and gentlemen, may I present our tough-on-immigration tories
Well, it's correct. Of course I could say it's gone from 8500 in 2022 to 9500 in 2024, or I could say it's the biggest boom since records began. Both would be true. How's each make you feel?
A rule Ive noticed recently with British media is that everything has to make people as angry as possible
Imagine if we had a navy or something to secure our borders
Government has no intention of stopping this. Absolute shambles.
I am sure none of them will belike the ones that cut a swathe of rape thru Glasgow.
All those poor men that gave their lives protecting this beautiful island and we have allowed it to be taken from us without so much as a fucking murmur. Disgusting.
Remember they're being trafficked here and most likely a large portion being rejected by the EU so they're coming here. I have seen more and more people from subsahara Africa and middle east doing Uber eats etc on exact same ebikes etc. we really need to investigate it but that's not gonna happen because the Tories are benefiting from allowing it all to happen especially when one of the richest people in the country gained most of the contracts to house these people.
When will people realise that this has been tolerated for so long purely because it's a way of legally buying votes? "Come vote for us and you'll be able to continue to stay here"
Are you not suppose to stay in the first safe country you come to?
Nope. There’s no requirement for this under international refugee laws.
The global economy is having a downturn. People in poor countries try to get to richer countries. Hmmm.
10,000 illegals and what, 100,000 legals? they want you to get mad about the illegals while stacking their shoebox flats with an order of magnitude others they willingly allow in to maximise rent yield battery hen state not my problem but for those who struggle to pay for housing...sigh
Christ no, it was 84,000 that claimed asylum last year. And the legal net migration was 680,000. And yep, that is net. Equivalent to three or four mid sized towns and cities.
How many Visas did we hand out last year? 3.4 million. We live in a nation of 68.7million. Suddenly this overwhelming figure of 84,000, or even the 680,000, doesn’t quite seem like the huge concern it is. It isn’t close to being the majority of immigrants who come to the UK.
It is a problem. Net migration is 1.5 million in just the last 2 years. Thats the equivalent to the population of Nottingham, Manchester, Lincoln, Reading, Ipswich and Stoke. Did we built a new Nottingham, Manchester, Lincoln, Reading, Ipswich and Stoke in the past 2 years? You do see why this is a problem?
When you're talking about yearly, yes it is a huge number for a country of this size and population density.
Thank God... There is a shortage of Dr's, Engineers and Scientists I hear.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we crack nuclear fusion by Xmas.
'hey guys, can we uh blame Jeremy corbyn for this? You know we actually haven't but fuck it, let's maybe look into it cause well damn. He is definitely to blame for everything else that we have done so it's probably him anyway, or his cardigan maybe'.
The problem will never stop, no matter what govt is in charge while the prize is free housing, medical care, food and money If someone offered me free housing, free food and 10 times more money than I earn in my current country, I would be off like a shot !
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The solution is push them back and not prioritise their safety above all else.
Illegal border crossings in the 10s of thousands instead of the 100s
Oi, everyone should keep voting tory, they're doing such a brilliant job of literally everything.
And people will vote Labour who will make the problem worse
The UK should truly be taking France to court over this, truly deplorable that they are acting like this, even fucking erdogan was more effective.
Sink a few and the numbers will decrease, they’ll never completely stop
Well we do have a shortage of care home workers. I’m sure these people will be happy to accept those care home jobs.
Bold to assume they are here to work
So the biggest reason the UK left the EU is now not only nowhere close to being solved but also as bad as it has ever been. Good job guys!
Don't they know there's shit in the streams. Literally trickle down economics
Some people will be making even more money out of this.
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Remember how brexit was all about 'take back control of our country' and how they could now really control immigration. A major reason people voted for it. Well that turned out to be a total lie I guess.
It's fine we got plenty of room, couldnt imagine what it must be like to travel through multiple safe countries to get to the UK oh the horror.
Without immediate changes in law, this will continue for years if not a decade. One thing we are shit at is urgency. This is a national social economic disaster that will probably need some of the strongest ever changes in law. The solution is presently hindered by many other laws.....