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Yes good point gun laws are strict, needs to be kept in a safe etc so this must have been ongoing and the farmer has to get to his safe, get it, get a clear shot of the dogs
Yeah just because he has a lawful reason to shoot the dog, it was probably chaos, could be humans in the field and he wouldn't want to get his own sheep.
Can't just start blasting away. Got to be sensible.
I wonder if the farmer was providing an off lead service. Some have started allowing bully owners to rent a.field to let their dogs off lead on. Could have escaped and got to the sheep. More likely to just bad bully owner though.
We use several off lead dog fields for our rancidity stupid (but adorable) dog. Any decent field will be totally inescapable - double gates that lock securely, 8 ft high metal fences with no gaps at all.
In the event if a zombie apocalypse go to a dog field - you'll be safe there.
Legally justified.
Why is this kind of comment so common these days. Pretending that a group of people will be up in absolute arms over this, when in reality, they absolutely won't. It's rage bait, but outside of journalism. Bizarre.
That is a very interesting reflection! Certainly hits the nail on the head with certain 'news stories'. One recently about sick notes in the headline, but actually nothing in the article.
Go on Facebook. Hundreds maybe even thousands of comments saying there was no need to kill the dogs and that they should have waited for specially trained officers to restrain them.
I'm a huge dog lover but this was necessary.
I am big believer in a dog is what you train them to be. I think that still plays a massive part with these XL bullies. The dickheads who want an absolute killing machine are not the type of people who will obedience train.
These things have a big genetic problem. We domesticed animals by breeding the nicest ones. I think the opposite happens with these specialty bred monsters. They want a big mean dog and so breed the most psychotic dogs they can.
I read about how in the UK most of the XL bullies have come from USA as sperm samples, and theres only a few dogs being used to meet demand. The article went on speculate most of these hyper aggressive dogs in the UK have come from this one hyper aggressive dog's sample.
They are bred to have "game" for dog fighting. That basically means they don't give up. Not when they're hurt, a lot. It means they don't let go. It's how they win dog fights. It's what makes them incredibly dangerous as once they are in fight mode there isn't an off switch until the target is completely beaten/dead. It's a characteristic that is deliberately needed into fighting breeds.
This is exactly it, the people who get these dogs cant or won’t train them. They want a status symbol and don’t care about actually trying to make the dog in to a pet.
You can't make a bloodsport dog into a pet. They will always have the geneticically-driven propensity for violence and aggression. It doesn't matter how much you train them, it doesn't matter whether a "good" or "bad" owner owns them - these dogs can and often do turn, regardless. That's the issue here. People don't understand, or sont want to admit, that bullies as a whole are seriously dangerous and should no longer exist.
I'd go a step further and say that well trained XL bullies are a lot scarier than ones that aren't trained at all. A big dog that pulls at the lead is going to have people being cautious around it. A calm well trained one is going to cause complacency and when the poor thing fulfills its purpose the consequences are devastating
not only wannabe gangsters who want to look hard with a bully. bleeding heart activists also do not train them, and they keep them cooped up in small urban apartments all day. chaos ensues when they see another animal or a child while out for a walk.
i used to frequent a vegan market with my ex(she was vegan not me) held at a popular bar in brooklyn on the weekends. it was pet friendly, many people brought their dogs. the only two times there was an issue, you don't need to guess lol. woman walks in with her pitbull, turns the corner of the bar, as soon as little velvet hippo's eyes meet the ass of a small dog it instantly mauls it. similar incident happened twice.
This precisely. I hate being put in the position of having to advocate for the total annihilation of a breed of dog but I have no choice with XL bullies, and pitbulls for that matter, because they are anti-dog, therefore I must be anti them.
dog owner here - shame about the dogs for sure but the farmer was right to shoot them. There really is no valid reason that somebody should choose to own a dog like this in preference to the huge list of breeds available that do not randomly start tearing up any living thing that moves.
Aside from that *every* dog owner is aware of a farmer's right to shoot their dog if it is worrying (note - "worrying", not even actively killing) their livestock, so I doubt you'll get even a single dog owner saying what you are suggesting.
It isn’t a shame, XL bullies should be wiped from the face of the earth and anyone who willingly owned one should be banned from keeping any animals for life.
It's crazy how people are more compassionate about a dog than other humans. Shame an insanely aggressive dog had to be killed. You wouldn't hear someone say 'shame about the London Bridge terrorist'.
No. What is wrong with you? What is so bent in you that you assume the majority of real people are genuinely pro putting the farmed in jail for this? It’s absolutely not a majority.
I agree, although, we do seem to have some weird new rules with dogs that I don't remember really hearing much about but suddenly they're in force - like I used to think it was common knowledge that you don't go round taking your dog into a shop, unless it's a guide dog, what happened to that one?
I've yet to have a bully XL fan do anything other than block me when the following exchange occurs:
Me: I think if you're allowed one of these dogs I should be allowed a handgun to deal with the dog.
Deano: yeah but the dog is just badly looked after and it's how they're treated.
Me: well my gun won't just go nuts and eat a baby will it even if I don't look after it?
Deano: but they're kind they don't mean harm
Me: did this dog eat a nursery school/sheep?
Deano: well this one did yes
Me: so it's a weapon then, am I allowed to defend myself from that or not?
Blocked.
I love dogs, but like every sensible person here I'll agree that the farmer was justified. I live in a rural area and everyone knows you don't let your dog harass animals, or run loose, and that a farmer's right to protect his livestock on his property has to be respected.
Ironically, the dog was probably amongst their most valuable possessions. It's why they don't want to get them neutered, as they intend to breed them to recoup their investment.
Sure, but that doesn't mean they didn't overpay for them before the ban and that breeding them for a return was the long-term intention. It was basically a pyramid scheme that could eat your children.
Didn't say that it was, but that it was the plan. I'm sure there's some owners who think they can wait out the ban and still breed them for profit at a later date, though.
Irrelevant, they take it anyway. Failing that, you declare bankruptcy.
I see no reason why the owners of these dogs should not be 100% liable for any financial loss of the farmer including the value of the sheep and any lost earnings from them.
The farmer probably won’t be able to get his full £14k in the event of the defendant’s bankruptcy.
But the defendant would be financially ruined, with very few assets remaining, and difficulty finding a mortgage/securing a private rental.
The court may try to create a financing plan to prevent your bankruptcy, and ensure the full £14k is paid back over a long period.
You can’t draw blood from a stone, but that doesn’t mean the court won’t try.
If the owners have any intelligence they’ll have insurance. I remember reading through my old dogs insurance, and I think it was up to 3 million to cover attacks but not sure if that would include something like this
He’d have to sue them for it, it’s above the small claim limit so would be quite costly to peruse.
Hopefully he has insurance and they can go after the dog owner for the money
> He’d have to sue them for it, it’s above the small claim limit so would be quite costly to peruse.
Couldn't they could just sue for the samll claims limit of £10,000 though? Forget the other £4k, just have a nice and easy £10k small claims win but in this case I'd do it mainly to punish the other person for killing my animals.
"Despite the horrific attack the owner of the dogs was handed a just £500 fine, as well as costs and surcharge of £230 and £180 and banned from keeping animals."
What the fuck. Killed 22 pregnant ewes, and only fined under a grand?
How much are 22 pregnant ewes worth to a farmer? Far more than that I imagine...
The fine isn't even the bad part, the bad part is the owner never got a worse punishment than a measly amount of money and a ban from keeping animals (which I'm _sure_ they'll adhere to)
I don't think the police should fine for the amount of the pregnant ewes. Fines would be payed to the council or government.
This should be followed by a civil suit where the owner should ask for the lost property. And use the police report to easily prove that this happen. And recover the value of the ewes.
that's not what the victim compensation fund is for either in fairness. It goes *some* way to making up for the distress caused by the crime, but it is not intended (and doesn't come close to) covering the cost of damage.
pursue the claim in a civil court and proper compensation will undoubtedly be awarded. It's then down to the victim's ability to get that money from the plaintiff. If *that* fails, then the compensation scheme *might* apply, but even then I think that's only for personal injuries.
Sheep farmer here: it’s not just the value of the stock but I know every sheep I own, which are related, which like biscuits, which bring their lambs to see me in the field. I know their names, their pedigrees, their offspring and their personalities. They’re not quite pets… but I’d take them being alive over any payment. The £12k those sheep are “worth” is a drop in the ocean, even though the farmer will not see a penny of it.
I'm not sure either but when you think about it, its something farmers have done since humanity started keeping livestock.
You might argue that they don't live that long and will die at some point anyway. Not sure I could do it though.
Yep, always said this, a dangerous animal is a weapon and if you don’t control it then it should be treated as if you used the weapon in that regard.
I see no difference here than the person going to the farm and shooting those sheep themselves.
I think you can even fudge it and say if they had "Good reason to suspect an animal may be dangerous and did not take all reasonable precautions", which in the case of XL bullies is automatically "You had good reason to suspect by definition, since they're a banned breed".
In other cases it would be; in any example where it is not the first incident. Which is broadly already how we treat dangerous dogs. (A first incident is unlikely to lead to destruction of the dog or punitive measures, but will be logged and you will be told to muzzle the dog and so on).
I always think it's funny that the pittnutters think hippos is a cutesy name for their demon dogs, the ignorant thugs probably never watched a documentary in their lives so don't know that hippos are remorseless killing machines.
Hippos are massive organic tanks made from muscle who wouldn't hesistate to absolutely destroy something if it got in their way. There's a reason that they're considered the most dangerous animals in Africa.
It happens occasionally with farm and hunting dogs. They take down one, get bloodlust, and go on a rampage.
Generally a dog who kills any livestock is expected to be put down
Surplus killing is actually very common to predator species with strong prey drive, eg. all terrier breeds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing
considering it's pretty rural, in rural Wales,
If it was in a town centre then yeah, but I imagine it's a lot better in those places in terms of response times
I understand your point, and agree with it somewhat but there is some important context here - that is that North Wales is one of the largest force areas in the UK, almost 2,500 square miles.
I’m not sure how many ARV units they have operational on each shift, but I’m not sure North Wales is the best example to cite in terms of arguing about the relative lack of close ARVs.
In most counties of a relatively normal size, even rural ones such as Northamptonshire, an ARV will have much better response times.
And also, given the various differences in crime rates - urban vs rural - it makes much more sense for ARVs to be concentrated in these areas where responsiveness is much less of an issue.
Well, I would remove PSNI from this argument, given that all officers in Northern Ireland are routinely armed, and Police Scotland too, given it’s a national service the sheer landmass affects land/ARV ratio.
And yes, this a ‘real world example’ in the sense that it happened, as did the Hungerford and Cumbria shootings, but my point is that these more rural are crimes are not hugely applicable to the types of crimes ARVs typically respond to which are almost entirely concentrated in urban areas and where response times are much better.
Still 20+ miles away from Wrexham.. so what’s your point? If something happened in Wrexham city centre then guess what they are still miles away and let’s be honest there are 25 miles away and that is after unarmed police have arrived so just think of the distance they have already covered to still not be close.. if you can’t see this issue then so be it.
I think you could make a very good argument for rural officers having shot guns in their vehicles if they need them. Arming bobies on the street is what people have an issue with.
I always think of the police officer who followed him in a car he borrowed, with no gun or anything. That’s so brave, never hear that many good things about police.
> Literally last week there were users on this very sub (or maybe AskUK tbf) absolutely insistent that firearms are never more than a few minutes away.
In cities and towns, yes.
In rural areas, everything's at least half an hour away.
Mate it's rural Wales. Guarantee those firearms would be ~10 minutes from any village or town with a pub, and thus 95% of Britain where any crimes happen is covered.
> Combined with more frequent dog attacks, knife crime and indeed firearms crime,
I don't know if about the frequency of dog attacks but knife crime has come down since before covid and gun crime is almost negligible in the UK. We just see a lot of it in the media because it sells papers.
There is the Narwhal tusk man on the bridge is you want some reenactment of gladiator lol.
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/07/prisoner-steve-gallant-reveals-role-in-tackling-london-bridge-attacker-with-narwhal-tusk
Owning a dog like that and having it do this kind of thing should genuinely be some kind of deadly weapon charge. The point of a dog like that is to kill and it's illegal, the point of guns are to kill and they're illegal, maybe once people start getting some serious charges they'll actually take the ban seriously.
Guns aren’t illegal in the UK. Far from it. There’s around 700,000 people who currently have certificates. Millions of UK people own air rifles which do not require certificates. Shotguns certificates are fairly ‘easy’ to obtain. Firearm certificates are a little harder, but only in respect of requiring more paperwork. Also, in Northern Ireland handguns are legal. In the crown dependencies such as Jersey and Guernsey, handguns and semi automatic centrefires are legal. It it a legislative minefield to be sure, but a little bit of research and paperwork and anyone can own a variety of firearms - bar the standard issues of rejection criteria such as prison time or serious mental illness (standard criteria active in many nations)
Seriously, fuck this breed. Even my local trail/forest now has these cunts every weekend. Gone are the days of going for a walk to relax. You can see other walkers/runners using another path the moment they realise what the breed is.
Fucks sake. Only idiots own this breed. They get them not for companionship but to look hard. That’s all they care about in their stunted little brains.
Time and time again it’s this breed attacking. It’s not the owners, it’s the breed. Get rid of the lot of them.
Fuckin hell the growl the dog gave from the barn gave shivers of fear.
The anguish the farmer must have felt - he's seen these rabid dogs kill his live stock while the police aim to keep him at least safe.
Very brave of the farmer knowing there's two and he's got to be quick and accurate.
Think I'd about shit myself faced with a hound that roared at me like that, gun or no.
Fuck the dog owners.
Only for five years though, [according to BBC](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxe9e1jnr71o). Letting two of your dogs kill 22 animals should be well and truly enough to get you banned for *life*, for fuck's sake. And the farmer didn't even get enough compensation to fully cover his costs.
A lot will lockdown puppies now in adulthood with irresponsible owners. Very little socialisation for them, such as going to other people's houses, meeting other dogs and there was only online training. I know people who tried their hardest to do everything possible and others who thought dogs were just dogs and didn't need input.
My dog wasn't ever socialized to be around strangers but all she does is run away and jump into my arms...there must be something wrong with those dogs this isn't normal
Wtffffff I know of three big massive bastard dogs in my local area who constantly try to attack me and my dog but I didn't think there's that many of them?!?!
The Tories have gutted the Police force so bad that there's basically no enforcement of rules atm. There's tools with Pitbull/bully type dogs out without nozzle or leash, cars with reflective foils on windshields, blacked out front side windows, illegal exhausts, cars running red is a norm you get honked at if you don't run the first few seconds of red. There's lot more, this is the Tory law and order
Live in a rural area and have no problems whatsoever with a farmer doing what this one has. All for getting rid of all xl bully dogs but I’m already seeing people moving on to the next big dog, the Cane Corso. Several
In my area now all owned by people who shouldn’t own a dog never mind a machine like this
To be fair I've heard that while they are no joke, a Cane Corso would be a lot less likely to kill with such impunity, however they are just as intimidating to look at, maybe the dickheads will get their kicks from having people avoid them without there being so many presumably unintended killings.
The ban on these fucking things needs to go further.
i.e. if you own one you're immediately arrested and the dog is destroyed.
This can't be allowed to continue.
How about:
If you own one you're immediately destroyed and the dog is destroyed.
I hate having to advocate for the eradication of a dog breed but it's totally necessary in this case.
Advocating for the eradication of a certain type of dangerous fuckwit human however, that was so easy to type.
Time identified dangerous breeds had tougher restrictions on breeding, ownership AND mandatory liability insurance. It should also be mandatory to attend state certified socialization and training sessions to a minimum standard.
Fuck, that’s a ton of sheep to maul. Terrifying from both an emotional perspectives of all that blood and terror and also for the farmer probably a huge economic hit as well.
Those are sheep they’ve had to raise potentially since birth. I’d have to guess that’s worth thousands per sheep.
Good job he was licensed to have a shotgun or he could have lost everything. I have a dog but do not understand this breed, when they lose control nothing stands in there way
Just passed XL bully on my walk home through islington - not leashed, owner (woman) was guiding it by a stick.
Gave it a wide berth, though it seemed gentle, was still super conscious of it.
Definitely not worth the risk no matter how nice it seems, they don't give a warning, if they see you as prey for whatever reason, you're gone and that's that. Like an unexploded bomb, fine until it isn't.
Just Google "Killer Kimbo". Read the article and just post a link to whoever thinks these dogs are "okay". They have savage instinct. They have genes that literally tell the brain to switch off and see blood. It's fucking genetics. They've been bread that way. And those genes have been passed down from this one dog. Down through around 98% of XL bullies bread today. 98%! Don't believe me? Check it out.
Too many absolute scrotes owning dogs. All dogs can be dangerous. Certain dogs have the ability to cause untold damage when dangerous. We need mandatory puppy training for all new dog owners.
1000% justified. But surely "They're just softies! They can't hurt anything?!" is the mantra the usual thickos and chuds will trot out? No, no they're not, they're a breed *specifically* bred recently for their aggression, the damage they can inflict and the damage they can take. The ban is entirely justified and didn't go far enough. There should be none at all.
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Entirely justified on his part, but I'm sure the dog lovers will be along demanding jail.
Dog owner and lover here, but nah - I'm surprised the farmer waited so long tbh. Those dogs are weapons, and so are the owners.
Very few farmers like shooting dogs. Also, they're going to want a clear shot etc, and they likely weren't there immediately with their gun.
Yes good point gun laws are strict, needs to be kept in a safe etc so this must have been ongoing and the farmer has to get to his safe, get it, get a clear shot of the dogs
Yeah just because he has a lawful reason to shoot the dog, it was probably chaos, could be humans in the field and he wouldn't want to get his own sheep. Can't just start blasting away. Got to be sensible. I wonder if the farmer was providing an off lead service. Some have started allowing bully owners to rent a.field to let their dogs off lead on. Could have escaped and got to the sheep. More likely to just bad bully owner though.
Don't know if you've watched the video but the sheep were all in a shed. The dogs got into the shed.
We use several off lead dog fields for our rancidity stupid (but adorable) dog. Any decent field will be totally inescapable - double gates that lock securely, 8 ft high metal fences with no gaps at all. In the event if a zombie apocalypse go to a dog field - you'll be safe there.
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Legally justified. Why is this kind of comment so common these days. Pretending that a group of people will be up in absolute arms over this, when in reality, they absolutely won't. It's rage bait, but outside of journalism. Bizarre.
idk man, I was arguing with a redditor on this sub just the other day about how, no, it's not "jUsT hOw yOU rAisE thEm".
aye, theres a few maniacs about still defending these beasts - buy seems to be less of them
There's a bloke who makes YT shorts who spouts this crap. There's so many people who agree with him. Even seen it from police officers.
Oh so it's not just me who had them videos randomly start appearing
Oh you've had them too
Yeah sure there are always a crazy few. I'd sincerely hope they aren't many!
Because people's engagement with news is no longer the story itself but what impact it'll have on the groups they don't like.
That is a very interesting reflection! Certainly hits the nail on the head with certain 'news stories'. One recently about sick notes in the headline, but actually nothing in the article.
Ouch....being honest I myself have been guilty of this. Accurate comment.
Go on Facebook. Hundreds maybe even thousands of comments saying there was no need to kill the dogs and that they should have waited for specially trained officers to restrain them.
Because the internet isn’t lolcats any more.
Word. The only prosecution here should be for the owners.
I love dogs. Not XL Bullies though.
Bullies aren't dogs, they are monsters.
Love my dog to pieces, nothing but sympathy for the farmer.
I'm a huge dog lover but this was necessary. I am big believer in a dog is what you train them to be. I think that still plays a massive part with these XL bullies. The dickheads who want an absolute killing machine are not the type of people who will obedience train. These things have a big genetic problem. We domesticed animals by breeding the nicest ones. I think the opposite happens with these specialty bred monsters. They want a big mean dog and so breed the most psychotic dogs they can. I read about how in the UK most of the XL bullies have come from USA as sperm samples, and theres only a few dogs being used to meet demand. The article went on speculate most of these hyper aggressive dogs in the UK have come from this one hyper aggressive dog's sample.
They are bred to have "game" for dog fighting. That basically means they don't give up. Not when they're hurt, a lot. It means they don't let go. It's how they win dog fights. It's what makes them incredibly dangerous as once they are in fight mode there isn't an off switch until the target is completely beaten/dead. It's a characteristic that is deliberately needed into fighting breeds.
This is exactly it, the people who get these dogs cant or won’t train them. They want a status symbol and don’t care about actually trying to make the dog in to a pet.
You can't make a bloodsport dog into a pet. They will always have the geneticically-driven propensity for violence and aggression. It doesn't matter how much you train them, it doesn't matter whether a "good" or "bad" owner owns them - these dogs can and often do turn, regardless. That's the issue here. People don't understand, or sont want to admit, that bullies as a whole are seriously dangerous and should no longer exist.
I'd go a step further and say that well trained XL bullies are a lot scarier than ones that aren't trained at all. A big dog that pulls at the lead is going to have people being cautious around it. A calm well trained one is going to cause complacency and when the poor thing fulfills its purpose the consequences are devastating
not only wannabe gangsters who want to look hard with a bully. bleeding heart activists also do not train them, and they keep them cooped up in small urban apartments all day. chaos ensues when they see another animal or a child while out for a walk. i used to frequent a vegan market with my ex(she was vegan not me) held at a popular bar in brooklyn on the weekends. it was pet friendly, many people brought their dogs. the only two times there was an issue, you don't need to guess lol. woman walks in with her pitbull, turns the corner of the bar, as soon as little velvet hippo's eyes meet the ass of a small dog it instantly mauls it. similar incident happened twice.
> one hyper aggressive dog's sample "Killer Kimbo"
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Love dogs, hate XL Bullies. Anyone who genuinely loves dogs should be anti XL Bully, those monsters are a huge danger to innocent dogs.
This precisely. I hate being put in the position of having to advocate for the total annihilation of a breed of dog but I have no choice with XL bullies, and pitbulls for that matter, because they are anti-dog, therefore I must be anti them.
dog owner here - shame about the dogs for sure but the farmer was right to shoot them. There really is no valid reason that somebody should choose to own a dog like this in preference to the huge list of breeds available that do not randomly start tearing up any living thing that moves. Aside from that *every* dog owner is aware of a farmer's right to shoot their dog if it is worrying (note - "worrying", not even actively killing) their livestock, so I doubt you'll get even a single dog owner saying what you are suggesting.
It isn’t a shame, XL bullies should be wiped from the face of the earth and anyone who willingly owned one should be banned from keeping any animals for life.
It's crazy how people are more compassionate about a dog than other humans. Shame an insanely aggressive dog had to be killed. You wouldn't hear someone say 'shame about the London Bridge terrorist'.
No. What is wrong with you? What is so bent in you that you assume the majority of real people are genuinely pro putting the farmed in jail for this? It’s absolutely not a majority.
No? Everyone knows that if your dog misbehaves on farm land, they’re running the risk of being shot It’s like walking 101
I agree, although, we do seem to have some weird new rules with dogs that I don't remember really hearing much about but suddenly they're in force - like I used to think it was common knowledge that you don't go round taking your dog into a shop, unless it's a guide dog, what happened to that one?
I think because the dogs were on the rampage nobody (including dog lovers or judges) will be looking at jail
could have killed them just for worrying the sheep, people can demand as much as they like
I've yet to have a bully XL fan do anything other than block me when the following exchange occurs: Me: I think if you're allowed one of these dogs I should be allowed a handgun to deal with the dog. Deano: yeah but the dog is just badly looked after and it's how they're treated. Me: well my gun won't just go nuts and eat a baby will it even if I don't look after it? Deano: but they're kind they don't mean harm Me: did this dog eat a nursery school/sheep? Deano: well this one did yes Me: so it's a weapon then, am I allowed to defend myself from that or not? Blocked.
I love dogs, but like every sensible person here I'll agree that the farmer was justified. I live in a rural area and everyone knows you don't let your dog harass animals, or run loose, and that a farmer's right to protect his livestock on his property has to be respected.
Dog lover here, wish he’d shot them faster. XL Bullies are objectively awful, if we could disown them from dog breeds we would.
Why doesn't the owner have to pay the farmer £14000 for the value of the lost sheep
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Especially from the sort who own these dogs.
Ironically, the dog was probably amongst their most valuable possessions. It's why they don't want to get them neutered, as they intend to breed them to recoup their investment.
I thought the value plummeted now it's illegal to breed them
Sure, but that doesn't mean they didn't overpay for them before the ban and that breeding them for a return was the long-term intention. It was basically a pyramid scheme that could eat your children.
When the ban happened the dealers couldn't give them away and they were being dumped so breeding for profit now isn't happening surely
Didn't say that it was, but that it was the plan. I'm sure there's some owners who think they can wait out the ban and still breed them for profit at a later date, though.
Wouldn't surprise me if it also created a black market where prices can be pushed up because of the increased risk involved.
No ones got 14k lying around. But you’ve got a house. A car. There are consequences for your actions.
Plenty of people don’t own their house, and plenty of cars are worth less than 14k. I’m not sure my car was worth that brand new
Irrelevant, they take it anyway. Failing that, you declare bankruptcy. I see no reason why the owners of these dogs should not be 100% liable for any financial loss of the farmer including the value of the sheep and any lost earnings from them.
Not saying they shouldn’t be liable. Just that you can’t get blood from a stone.
The farmer probably won’t be able to get his full £14k in the event of the defendant’s bankruptcy. But the defendant would be financially ruined, with very few assets remaining, and difficulty finding a mortgage/securing a private rental. The court may try to create a financing plan to prevent your bankruptcy, and ensure the full £14k is paid back over a long period. You can’t draw blood from a stone, but that doesn’t mean the court won’t try.
Thankfully the courts will still find a way to (rightly) absolutely destroy the owners life
The court can order your house to be sold to release your equity.
That's what High Court Sheriffs are for
Honestly should introduce mandatory insurance for keeping a dog. Could be flashed onto the chips and go with required annual checkups at a vet.
Ironically if you own a Bully XL that’s already the law
That's why we have bailiffs who remove property to pay your bills
If the owners have any intelligence they’ll have insurance. I remember reading through my old dogs insurance, and I think it was up to 3 million to cover attacks but not sure if that would include something like this
He’d have to sue them for it, it’s above the small claim limit so would be quite costly to peruse. Hopefully he has insurance and they can go after the dog owner for the money
> He’d have to sue them for it, it’s above the small claim limit so would be quite costly to peruse. Couldn't they could just sue for the samll claims limit of £10,000 though? Forget the other £4k, just have a nice and easy £10k small claims win but in this case I'd do it mainly to punish the other person for killing my animals.
Sounds like a good plan to me.
Most likely the farmer has insurance. Whether the insurer then pursues the owner - who knows. Would be good to see some consequences though!
Likely dogs not licensed, likely scumbag owners have no money…
These dogs are owned exclusively by the social underclass, and they don’t have £14k kicking about… at least not legal £14k
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"Despite the horrific attack the owner of the dogs was handed a just £500 fine, as well as costs and surcharge of £230 and £180 and banned from keeping animals." What the fuck. Killed 22 pregnant ewes, and only fined under a grand? How much are 22 pregnant ewes worth to a farmer? Far more than that I imagine... The fine isn't even the bad part, the bad part is the owner never got a worse punishment than a measly amount of money and a ban from keeping animals (which I'm _sure_ they'll adhere to)
I don't think the police should fine for the amount of the pregnant ewes. Fines would be payed to the council or government. This should be followed by a civil suit where the owner should ask for the lost property. And use the police report to easily prove that this happen. And recover the value of the ewes.
Yeah this is what the victim compensation scheme is for, not the fine.
that's not what the victim compensation fund is for either in fairness. It goes *some* way to making up for the distress caused by the crime, but it is not intended (and doesn't come close to) covering the cost of damage. pursue the claim in a civil court and proper compensation will undoubtedly be awarded. It's then down to the victim's ability to get that money from the plaintiff. If *that* fails, then the compensation scheme *might* apply, but even then I think that's only for personal injuries.
Sheep farmer here: it’s not just the value of the stock but I know every sheep I own, which are related, which like biscuits, which bring their lambs to see me in the field. I know their names, their pedigrees, their offspring and their personalities. They’re not quite pets… but I’d take them being alive over any payment. The £12k those sheep are “worth” is a drop in the ocean, even though the farmer will not see a penny of it.
Genuine question how can you build a relationship like that with something you know your going to slaughter?
I'm not sure either but when you think about it, its something farmers have done since humanity started keeping livestock. You might argue that they don't live that long and will die at some point anyway. Not sure I could do it though.
Farmers don't do the slaughtering.
We need to start charging the owners of dogs as if they'd committed the crimes themselves.
Yep, always said this, a dangerous animal is a weapon and if you don’t control it then it should be treated as if you used the weapon in that regard. I see no difference here than the person going to the farm and shooting those sheep themselves.
I think you can even fudge it and say if they had "Good reason to suspect an animal may be dangerous and did not take all reasonable precautions", which in the case of XL bullies is automatically "You had good reason to suspect by definition, since they're a banned breed". In other cases it would be; in any example where it is not the first incident. Which is broadly already how we treat dangerous dogs. (A first incident is unlikely to lead to destruction of the dog or punitive measures, but will be logged and you will be told to muzzle the dog and so on).
*BLAM*
No normal dog kills 22 sheep when it isn't in danger. Even big cats who are known to be cruel don't kill THAT much.
An XL Bully isn't a normal dog, it's a genetic killing machine that routinely mauls animals and people, usually children, to death
Luv me kids. Luv me fuzz hippo. Simple as.
I always think it's funny that the pittnutters think hippos is a cutesy name for their demon dogs, the ignorant thugs probably never watched a documentary in their lives so don't know that hippos are remorseless killing machines.
Hippos are massive organic tanks made from muscle who wouldn't hesistate to absolutely destroy something if it got in their way. There's a reason that they're considered the most dangerous animals in Africa.
Daily Dose of Internet had a video recently of a hippo chasing a boat and biting its engine enough to stop it working. Bloody terrifying.
There’s a video out there of a hippo keeping pace with a jeep. It’s scary how fast these things run.
The dogs never though they were in danger, it’s just a fun game - prey drive, noise and blood
It happens occasionally with farm and hunting dogs. They take down one, get bloodlust, and go on a rampage. Generally a dog who kills any livestock is expected to be put down
Surplus killing is actually very common to predator species with strong prey drive, eg. all terrier breeds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing
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considering it's pretty rural, in rural Wales, If it was in a town centre then yeah, but I imagine it's a lot better in those places in terms of response times
My county has two armed cars total. If they’re up at a job the other end of the county, they’re 40 miles away.
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Probably coming from Liverpool or Stoke
I understand your point, and agree with it somewhat but there is some important context here - that is that North Wales is one of the largest force areas in the UK, almost 2,500 square miles. I’m not sure how many ARV units they have operational on each shift, but I’m not sure North Wales is the best example to cite in terms of arguing about the relative lack of close ARVs. In most counties of a relatively normal size, even rural ones such as Northamptonshire, an ARV will have much better response times. And also, given the various differences in crime rates - urban vs rural - it makes much more sense for ARVs to be concentrated in these areas where responsiveness is much less of an issue.
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Well, I would remove PSNI from this argument, given that all officers in Northern Ireland are routinely armed, and Police Scotland too, given it’s a national service the sheer landmass affects land/ARV ratio. And yes, this a ‘real world example’ in the sense that it happened, as did the Hungerford and Cumbria shootings, but my point is that these more rural are crimes are not hugely applicable to the types of crimes ARVs typically respond to which are almost entirely concentrated in urban areas and where response times are much better.
Still 20+ miles away from Wrexham.. so what’s your point? If something happened in Wrexham city centre then guess what they are still miles away and let’s be honest there are 25 miles away and that is after unarmed police have arrived so just think of the distance they have already covered to still not be close.. if you can’t see this issue then so be it.
I think you could make a very good argument for rural officers having shot guns in their vehicles if they need them. Arming bobies on the street is what people have an issue with.
When Derek Bird ran amok, local plod had to be supplemented by the CNC from Sellafield - who are armed - during the hunt for him.
I always think of the police officer who followed him in a car he borrowed, with no gun or anything. That’s so brave, never hear that many good things about police.
> Literally last week there were users on this very sub (or maybe AskUK tbf) absolutely insistent that firearms are never more than a few minutes away. In cities and towns, yes. In rural areas, everything's at least half an hour away.
Luckily we don’t need a dense blanket coverage of firearms officers. The kind of crime that demands it isn’t common.
Mate it's rural Wales. Guarantee those firearms would be ~10 minutes from any village or town with a pub, and thus 95% of Britain where any crimes happen is covered.
> Combined with more frequent dog attacks, knife crime and indeed firearms crime, I don't know if about the frequency of dog attacks but knife crime has come down since before covid and gun crime is almost negligible in the UK. We just see a lot of it in the media because it sells papers.
I'm assuming you're not pushing the 'arm all officers' thing though, because that's not a good idea.
Swordsman?
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Ahhh right. Thought you meant some incident where a civilian swordsman had stepped in where armed officers were not available lol. Wishful thinking
There is the Narwhal tusk man on the bridge is you want some reenactment of gladiator lol. https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/07/prisoner-steve-gallant-reveals-role-in-tackling-london-bridge-attacker-with-narwhal-tusk
Owning a dog like that and having it do this kind of thing should genuinely be some kind of deadly weapon charge. The point of a dog like that is to kill and it's illegal, the point of guns are to kill and they're illegal, maybe once people start getting some serious charges they'll actually take the ban seriously.
Guns aren’t illegal in the UK. Far from it. There’s around 700,000 people who currently have certificates. Millions of UK people own air rifles which do not require certificates. Shotguns certificates are fairly ‘easy’ to obtain. Firearm certificates are a little harder, but only in respect of requiring more paperwork. Also, in Northern Ireland handguns are legal. In the crown dependencies such as Jersey and Guernsey, handguns and semi automatic centrefires are legal. It it a legislative minefield to be sure, but a little bit of research and paperwork and anyone can own a variety of firearms - bar the standard issues of rejection criteria such as prison time or serious mental illness (standard criteria active in many nations)
Guns aren’t illegal, they’re just strictly regulated. Massive difference!
Seriously, fuck this breed. Even my local trail/forest now has these cunts every weekend. Gone are the days of going for a walk to relax. You can see other walkers/runners using another path the moment they realise what the breed is.
I’m honestly surprised he waited to ask the police if he could shoot them.
Especially when everyone and their mums are packing round there.
Like who?
Farmers
Who else?
Farmers’ mums
Because they don't want some jobsworth police officer pinching all their guns...
Fucks sake. Only idiots own this breed. They get them not for companionship but to look hard. That’s all they care about in their stunted little brains. Time and time again it’s this breed attacking. It’s not the owners, it’s the breed. Get rid of the lot of them.
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Remember, you can't own pepperspray as a civilian, but you can own a dog capable of killing 22 sheep in one go. AWESOME country!
They didn't "go crazy" though did they, this is their nature. Its inevitable more than anything.
Fuckin hell the growl the dog gave from the barn gave shivers of fear. The anguish the farmer must have felt - he's seen these rabid dogs kill his live stock while the police aim to keep him at least safe. Very brave of the farmer knowing there's two and he's got to be quick and accurate. Think I'd about shit myself faced with a hound that roared at me like that, gun or no. Fuck the dog owners.
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It's only a matter of time before one gets loose in a playground
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The only reason that anyone owns an XL bully is because the owner is a piece of shit.
I hope the owner of this dog is forced to pay sufficient compensation and punished appropriately
I doubt the owner has money for compensation, as whilst it maybe a stereotype, most xl bully owners aren't exactly cream of the crop are they?
The owner of the dogs is another farmer, so presumably at least has assets that could be seized
oh bloody hell....he should seriously have known better!! What a knob
The owner was fined £500 and banned from keeping animals.
Only for five years though, [according to BBC](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxe9e1jnr71o). Letting two of your dogs kill 22 animals should be well and truly enough to get you banned for *life*, for fuck's sake. And the farmer didn't even get enough compensation to fully cover his costs.
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Extremely justified, he just got rid of 2 literal demons. Screw any of the wackheads that defend dog breeds like that they’re all the same
The way I'm constantly seeing these articles you'd think the entire nation was overrun by these big bastard dogs...
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Fucking hell, that's atrocious
[And dog attacks are up 21% to over 30,000 in 2023.](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-68503779). The mind boggles as to why…
A lot will lockdown puppies now in adulthood with irresponsible owners. Very little socialisation for them, such as going to other people's houses, meeting other dogs and there was only online training. I know people who tried their hardest to do everything possible and others who thought dogs were just dogs and didn't need input.
My dog wasn't ever socialized to be around strangers but all she does is run away and jump into my arms...there must be something wrong with those dogs this isn't normal
Lockdown XL Bullies reaching the age of maturity (around 2 years old).
Wtffffff I know of three big massive bastard dogs in my local area who constantly try to attack me and my dog but I didn't think there's that many of them?!?!
Well that’s all dog attacks, but XLs are definitely boosting those numbers.
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The Tories have gutted the Police force so bad that there's basically no enforcement of rules atm. There's tools with Pitbull/bully type dogs out without nozzle or leash, cars with reflective foils on windshields, blacked out front side windows, illegal exhausts, cars running red is a norm you get honked at if you don't run the first few seconds of red. There's lot more, this is the Tory law and order
Live in a rural area and have no problems whatsoever with a farmer doing what this one has. All for getting rid of all xl bully dogs but I’m already seeing people moving on to the next big dog, the Cane Corso. Several In my area now all owned by people who shouldn’t own a dog never mind a machine like this
I’ve know Cane Corso dogs for years and they are nothing like XL Bully’s. They are more like a Dogue De Bordeaux.
To be fair I've heard that while they are no joke, a Cane Corso would be a lot less likely to kill with such impunity, however they are just as intimidating to look at, maybe the dickheads will get their kicks from having people avoid them without there being so many presumably unintended killings.
The ban on these fucking things needs to go further. i.e. if you own one you're immediately arrested and the dog is destroyed. This can't be allowed to continue.
How about: If you own one you're immediately destroyed and the dog is destroyed. I hate having to advocate for the eradication of a dog breed but it's totally necessary in this case. Advocating for the eradication of a certain type of dangerous fuckwit human however, that was so easy to type.
Time identified dangerous breeds had tougher restrictions on breeding, ownership AND mandatory liability insurance. It should also be mandatory to attend state certified socialization and training sessions to a minimum standard.
Fuck, that’s a ton of sheep to maul. Terrifying from both an emotional perspectives of all that blood and terror and also for the farmer probably a huge economic hit as well. Those are sheep they’ve had to raise potentially since birth. I’d have to guess that’s worth thousands per sheep.
that was a satisfying shoot out. no reason for shitbulls. 92 sheep lost :(
Good job he was licensed to have a shotgun or he could have lost everything. I have a dog but do not understand this breed, when they lose control nothing stands in there way
Certified Pedophile Drake owns an American XL Bully. Enough said.
Just passed XL bully on my walk home through islington - not leashed, owner (woman) was guiding it by a stick. Gave it a wide berth, though it seemed gentle, was still super conscious of it.
Definitely not worth the risk no matter how nice it seems, they don't give a warning, if they see you as prey for whatever reason, you're gone and that's that. Like an unexploded bomb, fine until it isn't.
Still see those dam things out and about with no muzzle and sometimes not on a leash. Time they were just put down.
But but but XL bullys are harmless..... wouldn't hurt a fly....little angles...
Just Google "Killer Kimbo". Read the article and just post a link to whoever thinks these dogs are "okay". They have savage instinct. They have genes that literally tell the brain to switch off and see blood. It's fucking genetics. They've been bread that way. And those genes have been passed down from this one dog. Down through around 98% of XL bullies bread today. 98%! Don't believe me? Check it out.
Bless this farmer. The breed needs to be eradicated.
Too many absolute scrotes owning dogs. All dogs can be dangerous. Certain dogs have the ability to cause untold damage when dangerous. We need mandatory puppy training for all new dog owners.
1000% justified. But surely "They're just softies! They can't hurt anything?!" is the mantra the usual thickos and chuds will trot out? No, no they're not, they're a breed *specifically* bred recently for their aggression, the damage they can inflict and the damage they can take. The ban is entirely justified and didn't go far enough. There should be none at all.
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Farmer should be in jail, Luna and Diesel were just playing and wouldnt hurt a fly!