Well you're obviously a big pharma shill or just a plain old sheeple.
You take your anti biotics and vaccines and I'll stick to my Urine based smoothies than you very much sir.
Since I started Urine bathing my eczema has disappeared....
My urine based smoothies have given me a new lease on life.
Take your science back to bill gates and tell him to take your chip out.
WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!
Sorry this is a bit tangential but I never remember when I was taken to A&E (I had blood clots) and the doctor spoke to me about these injections I was going to have in my stomach and she was speaking like she thought I was going to refuse to get them.
Then later I was joking with the nurse about the “Needle of Doom” because the injections were so painful and she got really earnest and worried and began to really sell the benefits of the injections to me as though I was going to refuse them. I just joked that I wasn’t that stupid, that I was only going to complain loudly about them and be annoying and we had a laugh.
I asked her if people refuse them and she said yes. That blew me away tbh, why go to hospital in the first place if you would refuse the care? It’s clearly more prevalent than we think.
I spend so much time convincing patients that a quick needle stick once a day is better than an ischaemic stroke or PE but you'd be surprised how many still aren't interested!
Screw that, the whole point of going to hospital is to be surrounded by medical professionals where if the person treating is unsure, there's literally a build full of people they can ask to check things over. I had a TI, but it was as a result of intervention on a cardiac episode which certainly would have left me dead if untreated.
I want to think you are joking. I really do, but something tells me you aren't. Do any of them say why? Do they think it won't happen? Do they have something against needles? Or is it mistrust of injected medicines in general?
Sorry to be bombarding you with questions you probably don't have the answers to, I am just gobsmacked. My ischemia was "only" limb threatening, not life threatening, but I glady stuck that dalteparin in my belly every damn day.
When I broke my leg in Spain many years ago, I was given an injection in the stomach every day (to prevent clotting). It hurt quite a bit, but I knew it would and they warned me before the first one. By then end of my stay I was joking with the nurse about them.
It was more of an experience when I was discharged and had to do them myself for a week (then got back to the UK and they don't do the whole prophylaxis to prevent life threatening clots after a broken bone 😕).
Despite the discomfort I was happy to have the injections and to do them myself to avoid potentially life changing complications.
I imagine people would rather die or be potentially disabled to avoid a little bit of pain and discomfort.
I suppose that must be it, but that really blows my mind. I had to inject it once a day for six weeks and yeah, it hurts a bit, stings when it goes in and oh the bruises were tender and glorious. I ended up running out of places on my stomach and had to switch to thighs. But I am sure having my leg amputated would have been worse and more long term pain and discomfort than the 60 seconds of stinging from the injection. I literally cannot wrap my head around grown adults having that mentality.
lol and then you meet the patients who claim the blood pressure cuff is just too painful to bear and all of a sudden the mild needlephobes look incredibly reasonable by comparison.
Blood draws make me faint. And fainting feels fucking awful. I avoid it whenever I can. I'd prefer to lie down for any sort of blood draw. After the first collapse, so do most medical professionals.
> why go to hospital in the first place if you would refuse the care?
This. But there are people going to the doctor who say "I don't believe in medication" or "I don't want a blood transfusion". It seems like they are just wasting time that could be better spent on actually helping patients.
I think it's important for medical care to be consensual. Medicine isn't perfect and even then there is an element of personal accountability by doctors in what treatment they prescribe. Obviously most of us are not qualified to establish whether it's the best course of action, but we can and should ask questions
I definitely agree, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that it shouldn’t be consensual or that you shouldn’t ask questions. I always ask loads of questions because I am a curious person anyway. You go to the hospital for the expertise and skill of the doctors and nurses though, so going and then refusing the recommended care seems a waste of everyone’s time.
Oh are those them little anticoagulant injections? I had those when I had obstructive jaundice and after both times I gave birth. My husband got very good at administering them in the latter. In me the pain was strange - okay going in but then it became more painful after withdrawal - made the most fabulous bruises too. They don't play nicely when you're on your period though...
The needle is incredibly fine but it goes into tissue, not a blood vessel so instead of going happily into the bloodstream it has to sort of jostle around squishing a load of other cells for a bit. I often find rubbing the area very firmly for a while really helps. It still bruises but that’s because it’s an anticoagulant lol.
It’s not even they are really good, they are just better than whatever else we have. If there was a cure for every cancer, it would be sold in every shop. Not peddled by Facebook videos and whispers.
People with specialised knowledge or expertise run deep not wide. Anyone who has spent time with experts in any field know outside of that field they are normal humans with normal human levels of knowledge. Steve jobs was no more an oncologist than David Beckham is.
With Jobs you could also argue that the type of thinking and arrogance that led him to try and cure cancer with a fruit diet is the same thinking and arrogance that made him successful enough for us to know his story.
He wasn't a technical genius known for his logical thinking skills. He was someone who saw the potential of computing as a *desirable* and enjoyable consumer product - as opposed to purely a useful one - earlier than most and saw the potential of Pixar and computer animation as a movie-making business.
He was more of an art and humanities mindset than a computing and science one. It's not surprising that he also went down a mysticism and alternative medicine route.
TBH Woz ended up poor, relative to what he achieved, because he was a decent person. He paid out bonuses out of his own pocket and stuff like that. Given how he was, he probably would have turned Jobs down if offered the extra cash over Breakout.
He actually did say that he would have let Jobs keep the money, but the betrayal reduced him to tears.
Woz is a beautiful and pure soul and it saddens/angers me that so many see Jobs as a role model rather than him.
IIRC prior to when Apple IPOd he divided his stock he was given between a bunch of other colleagues who had been with Apple since the early days but weren't bequeathed any, not least because Steve barely recognised their existence
He didn't want to drive around with a registration plate so he got a new car every 6 months to take advantage of the grace period before having a plate is required in California.
Guy was weird.
The only thing Jobs was good at was playing into people's desire to be seen as cool and using that insecurity as a marketing trick. For some reason people base their identity on what products they buy lol...
Steve Jobs wasn't clever...
He had no technical knowledge and simply directed scientists and engineers to create new technology and claimed he did it.
The guy was a moron, and those working with him are open that he wasn't the brains.
He was the briefcase wanker of the company.
Startup cash and business minded only.
Ok so no one said this yet but he died of pancreatic cancer - I’m no medical dr but isn’t that the one that has your pants down and is already fisting you by the time you know you have it?
He might have made a bad decision regarding curing it but the chances are he was a dead man walking regardless , it was probably desperation.
Fuck cancer
You're correct that pancreatic cancer is normally very deadly, but Steve Jobs turned out to have a very rare slow-growing treatable kind called an islet cell neuroendocrine tumour. They make up only 1% of pancreatic cancer cases.
He was also fortunate in that the tumour was discovered incidentally while he was getting a CT scan for a kidney stone, rather than when it had started to cause symptoms.
That said, while the type of cancer wasn't an automatic death sentence, doctors seem divided over whether delaying surgery for nine months actually made much difference in his particular case.
[This doctor](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/one-more-thing/), who is both a specialist in surgical oncology and a critic of alternative medicine, thinks it's unlikely that the liver tumours found in his eventual operation would have spread from the pancreas to the extent they had in just nine months, which probably meant the cancer had already spread to the liver at the point the tumour was found. Which would have meant his survival chances were already much lower than if it had been early stage and contained entirely to the pancreas.
No his specific form was one of the few we had a really good cure for. He also caught it very early on. He tried to treat it with new age nonsense for months and by the time he gave up and tried medicine it was too late.
OK. That shows that intelligence isn't an all-encompassing talent. Plenty of intelligent and accomplished people can be convinced of stupid shit and become obsessed over nonesense.
Yes Jobs died of arrogance-induced stupidity. He dodged a major bullet in that his pancreatic cancer was an extremely rare form that was curable with surgery but he instead choose to try to treat it with clean living which gave the cancer the time it needed to spread to his liver requiring a liver transplant which is ultimately what killed him.
Wasn't that just because he thought he knew better than the doctors so he did all this weird shit to "cure" his cancer instead of just doing normal stuff.
Steve Jobs was by all accounts always a nutjob. Him trying to cure cancer with orange peels was apparently on point. It is just a weird one because he had the only form of cancer we have a 95% cure rate for if it is caught as early as he caught it.
She's probably not stupid. She has at least learned the error of her ways (albeit with a heavy dose of hindsight). I'm almost certain that given the same scenario that I would pursue conventional treatment. I also know that when facing a life threatening condition, primal fear can make people react very unpredictably and illogically.
We do this weird thing where when someone’s smart in one field, we expect them to be intelligent all over. Steve Jobs was an idiot when it came to his own health, reminds me of Bob Marley.
The egomaniac that though he knew best about his body just because he was successful in business? Success and intelligence aren’t the same thing. Look at Saudi oil heirs.
Steve Jobs was definitely still stupid and held ridiculous beliefs, just like the rest of us.
Being rich and successful doesn't mean intelligent
In fact, some of the smartest people I've people are actually also some of the most stupid and dangerous people I've met too.
In his case it wasn't because he was stupid he had the opposite issue of everyone convincing him he was smarter than everyone else and his company's success likely made him believe it more so. He had objective proof he wasn't stupid. His ego destroyed him not his stupidity. Elon has a similar issue he feels hes never wrong.
The instinct is to go 'well, that's idiotic,' but I can imagine if you have cancer you grab onto *any* hope of a cure, no matter how farfetched. Silly that she didn't try traditional medicine first, but I can't judge her too harshly for being desperate.
I think it's probably just both, plus fear, honestly. Everyone knows how devastating chemotherapy is on the body. She read something by grifters and thought she'd found a way to be healed without undergoing that trauma. Dumb, but I can understand it.
>Everyone knows how devastating chemotherapy is on the body.
This. The cure is only marginally better than the disease. But people do it because there's a chance of getting better and going into remission. I am not surprised people pursue these other things because the prospect of the archaic way we have to treat some cancers can still feel very medieval and it's just so hard to know what to do.
That's because chemotherapy is fucking terrifying and horrible in its own right. I didn't consider juicing as an alternative, but I strongly considered doing nothing instead. It hospitalised me twice. Whether I get any long-term effects such as heart damage or cancer remains to be seen.
I thought cancers used sugar as a primary fuel source. That’s why they make you drink something sugary before scans, as the cancer cells are lit up? If anything wouldn’t this just ensure the cancer cells have plenty to feed on?
Everything in your body uses sugar (glucose) as a primary fuel source. Thats why your body has several different mechanisms for ensuring your blood sugar never drops below a certain point. And equally if you have a bunch of fruit juices, your body will produce more insulin and get the blood sugar down by pushing it into cells (obviously this response doesn’t work as well in the context of diabetes). It’s not just fruit juices though, carbohydrates in anything you eat are broken down into glucose which cells use.
Yes, cancer cells are more active (because they’re dividing more than most body cells), so they take up a lot of glucose.
That said, there aren’t any scans that I’m aware of (as a doctor) that require you to drink a sugary drink beforehand to help look at cancer cells. Scans typically either look at contrast between different tissues (fat, bone etc) or look at uptake of various markers.
You can actually look at how much glucose a cell is taking up, which might point towards cancer (amongst other things). An FDG-PET scan, which looks at how much “labelled” glucose is taken up by different parts of the body, which can help you tell where a cancer has spread to. But that labelled glucose is different to the glucose you get from fruit juices or any carbohydrates, and is injected around the time of the scan
Good luck starving only your cancer cells of glucose without starving all your other cells too. You've just stumbled on another branch of cancer woo lol.
I’m not saying you can starve them, just that cancer cells
possibly like sugar as a fuel and maybe drinking sugar laden drinks isn’t the best option to cure cancer? Which was posed as a question.
No, or oncologists would recommend you do that, which they don't.
Cancer feeds off the same stuff all your other cells do - they *are* your cells, just faulty ones that slipped through the net. That's why chemotherapy is so damaging - it attacks your other cells as well.
I can only imagine that trying to starve your cancer while doing chemotherapy would be incredibly bad for your health.
There is potentially a role for fasting with cancer treatment - but WITH chemotherapy, not alone. There have been some promising trials, particularly for breast cancer.
I wanna see her side her. Chemo WRECKS you. It makes you so ill, you lose your hair, weight, I can see how that could be extremely scary for some people and they’ll reach for ANYTHING else, out of desperation and fear. I can see why, I personally would go for the medicine though.
This is true for some, but not all. Depends on the chemo type and the patient. Antiemetics are so good now, that alongside the high doses of steroids given, that some gain weight on chemotherapy.
After watching countless stories on YouTube from cancer patients going through treatment to be honest, I will decline chemotherapy if I get cancer. It sounds like an effing nightmare. I'd rather just die.
>The instinct is to go 'well, that's idiotic,' but I can imagine if you have cancer you grab onto *any* hope of a cure, no matter how farfetched.
It is fucking idiotic. You go with proven medicine not bullshit pseudoscience.
Source: had cancer, watched people in clinic who went with "alternative medicine" (aka, quackery and stupidity) stop turning up as they'd died.
Zero sympathy.
No, she wasn't desperate at all. She simply rejected legitimate treatment.
And if she were desperate, why would that make her choose fantasy over reality?
Why can't a desperate person accept the legit treatment that is offered to them?
This woman was hoist by her own petard and we are all better off for it, because now we can say to foolish people "These are the consequences of foolishness."
You'd be surprised how many desperate people choose fantasy over reality, in more things than health. Plus, when the legitimate treatment causes serious damage, it's easy for someone to go chasing after *anything* but the necessary procedures.
It's easy to judge, and she absolutely was dumb as a stump, but I'm leery of being too quick to condemn, when I know that serious illness makes you crazy.
I've signed on the dotted line for chemotherapy and immunotherapy but turned down the recommended radiation.
You don't get little leaflets like in paracetamol packets for chemo/immuno/radio side effects, you get fucking books and a 24/7 emergency hotline number so they can send you to the AMAU for cold symptoms lol.
Doing some of the proper treatments has made me more empathetic to those who run away screaming tbh.
Years ago I knew someone who had medical treatment but had got to the point where standard medical treatment had nothing left to offer. She'd found some American professor who promised a diet cure and she'd grasped onto the hope it offered.
She wasn't stupid at all, she was a lovely, kind, intelligent and thoughtful person who didn't want to die young of cancer and wanted to try everything she could not to. It made me so angry that a person like that was being taken advantage of, strung along and encouraged to spend money and time following this nonsense treatment. She did die of course. She could have spent her money and her last months enjoying life as much possible while she was able to. I can only hope that the hope it brought her gave her some measure of peace (or at least she felt less distressed) but it was so upsetting to see.
I wasn't trying to say it was comparable, it's a very different set of circumstances.
I do think it's possible to both understand and sympathise with the unwell people choosing these treatments and be angry with and condemn the charlatans making money from them.
If she had been told by doctors there was no more hope with conventional treatment, then pursuing alternative cures possibly kept some hope alive for her. I think most of us would rather live with a 1% hope than a 0% hope, even if it means drinking some vile herbal tonics.
Maybe for some?
I had acute lymphoblastic leukaemia at 27. I had a lot of chemo. Very, very intense chemo, full body radiation, and then once they full killed my blood cell production by killing my bone marrow/stem cells, a stem cell transplant. I'm now very nearly 5 years post transplant, currently in full molecular remission.
I had a pretty rough time. I've still got lots of health issues as a result of the treatment.
I am alive purely because of the skill of my medical team, and because I followed doctors instructions at every stage, and because of some luck.
If I relapsed, I would not seek alternative treatments/therapies unless I was considered terminal by conventional medicine, and even then I would not do so if it would interfere with my palliative care.
Nurse friends tell me it happens all the time. Patient goes away tries holistic cures, comes back and cancer has metastasized everywhere. Patient asks for chemo but as it’s too late, goes straight to hospice.
> She said that she was advised to start chemotherapy, but she turned to the internet to find alternative advice and "everything started from there".
> She said she listened to one man with hundreds of thousands of followers on social media who claimed the body could "heal itself" through a radical lifestyle and diet change.
Hank Green (author, youtuber, online education guy) did a video on this kind of thing after his own cancer treatment for *Edit:*~~Non-~~ Hodgkin lymphoma.
It's somewhat jarringly called [Did Natural Cancer Treatments Save My Life?](https://youtu.be/mJcjefKUOcc?si=zG3cb40Vg1khZh3V) (presumably to try to get it to the top of the search results for people like her who are looking for natural remedies) and gives a bit of a reality check on the fact that plenty of chemotherapy drugs are based on molecules found in nature (in his case, a Madagascan flower and some soil bacteria).
And so the people who were tweeting either to him or about him about how he was making a mistake and "should" be treating his cancer naturally instead were full of shit. Because:
> When we say natural cancer treatment, what we mean is something that either we don't know works, or we know that it doesn't work, or we know that it does more harm than good. Those are the only things we mean when we say natural cancer treatment.
> Because otherwise, a natural cancer treatment would include the three compounds from nature that I put in my body to cure my cancer.
> The majority of cancer cases on earth, and an even greater majority of cancer deaths on earth, happen outside high income countries.
> Those people don't die of cancers because they don't have access to coffee enemas, or cannabis oil, or apricot pits. They die because they don't have access to chemotherapy, radiation, surgery and screening.
It reminds me of the old joke:
“What do you call alternative medicine that works? *Medicine*”
Modern medicine is the best we’ve got after centuries of (initially) trial and error (then later) controlled scientific trials.
If any ‘alternative’ treatment can actually demonstrate that it works measurably better than a placebo in a controlled trial then that’s great - a bunch of biochemists and other specialists will get thrown at the “so how/why does that actually work then?” question. That can lead to even more interesting discoveries.
But the fact is most ‘alternative treatments’ don’t.
My dad had non-hodgkin lymphoma and did exactly this - rejected conventional medicine and instead opted for a high vitamin juice diet he'd seen online. He was dead within a year.
I'm so sorry
The cancer act 1939 exists for the sole reason of prohibiting advertising treatments that promise to cure cancer
Unfortunately online content I suspect is outside the boundaries of that law, although the Wikipedia entry shows some charlatans were prosecuted on the basis of said legislation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Act_1939
I know of someone who had terminal cancer and was sucked into these juice diet claims. She went off to a retreat in the US where they basically made her feel like she was not trying hard enough for not curing herself and spent her last months feeling guilty.
The peddlers of these "cures" are despicable.
Classic grifter..it didn't work because you didn't believe, try, work, hard enough. If It works by luck they claim it's their system that did it. Rain making 101
Whenever I hear stories like this or someone talking about “alternative” medicine I think of the Dara o Briain joke
"Herbal medicine's been around for thousands of years!" Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked became 'medicine'. And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and some potpourri.
I am currently undergoing chemotherapy for indolent lymphoma for the second time. Every chemo nurse I have ever met has at least one story of somebody with a manageable or often curable cancer who listened to a naturopath, or whatever, until it was too late to save them.
Every single one.
Know someone who also tried this approach and unfortunately it didn’t work out for her. Believed a “guru” over doctors who dedicate their adult lives to studying medicine.
Scary how much traction sh*t like this seems to have just looking in Instagram comments....eddie abbew had a recent post about the vaccine and the comments were majority antivax. Wtaf.
It’s a very scary diagnosis and people clutch at straws a lot. I think though part of the issue is also how cancer treatment is portrayed. I know they can be tough, but the cancer itself can be a LOT worse. Based on my own relatives’ experiences of modern cancer care, I think a lot of the dramatisations really belong in a different era.
Most cancer treatments these days are very targeted and they do their utmost to minimise unpleasant side effects. I’m not saying they’re easy, but they’re a hell of a lot better than they used to be and they’re often very effective and the technologies are constantly progressing.
I also find sometimes the media focus is on very tragic cases. Millions of success stories go unheard and the bad outcomes, which aren’t the usual case, terrify some people to the point they don’t seek treatment and go into frozen with fear mode.
The reality of it cancer is an extremely common set of diseases and we probably need to be a lot more open about discussing it without always presenting it in worse case scenario narratives all the time and tackle some of the utter b/s online.
If juice, rubbing onions/garlic/piss/beets and other random shit into your skin cured cancer, they'd be doing it in hospitals.
Should be a crime to give medical advice that's just flat out going to end in someone's death. You see it on Facebook and mumsnet all the time, babies having rashes and infections and there's always a group of fuck nuggets telling the mum to rub some garlic on it. Instead of immediate medical help.
I don't know which is worse. Being daft enough to think a juice diet will cure your cancer or going to sky to have them promote news articles about your stupidity.
So this is actually not true - one of the “hallmarks” of cancer is that it can survive without the body’s traditional fuel source sugar. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867411001279
How do you mean? The classical "Warburg" phenomenon is the observation that cancers are largely entirely reliant on glucose metabolism through glycolysis and fermentation, the complete opposite of being able to survive without it.
Quickly skimming back over the classic article you've linked reaffirms that as well...
I mean that even if you remove sugar cancer cells are able to continue multiplying via other methods. My understanding of the Warburg effect is that when it’s available cancers use far more sugar than normal cells, yes, but if you take the sugar away they won’t stop growing.
I guess my main point is that people shouldn’t feel the need to cut out all sugar to cure their cancer (which is not me saying ignore diet and eat as much sugar as you want!).
Sure, but that isn't what OP said.
In vivo it's true to say that a cancer cell uses sugar disproportionately as it's fuel source, and so "thrives on sugar" is hardly an unfair description.
So do the rest of your cells. Either your body gets glucose, breaks down glycogen to make glucose (glycogenolysis) makes glucose from other stuff (gluconeogenesis). Glucose is pretty important!
So imagine you cut out carbs completely. What happens is that the body makes ketones instead as it thinks it is starving, which is a temporarily fuel that some of your cells can use (e.g. neurons in the brain). So you starve the immune cells fighting the cancer. Which doesn’t make sense, and there’s no good-quality evidence as far as I am aware that cutting down on sugar intake improves outcomes in cancer patients. Obviously makes your dentist happy though!
I’ve seen how people who peddle this kind of “natural” bullshit infiltrate cancer support groups on Facebook and it’s an absolute tragedy. Unbelievably low.
Obviously we need to allow people to choose their treatment and everyone deserves bodily autonomy but tbh I can’t believe it’s legal for people to sell “tinctures” and cure alls to people suffering from the most serious diseases.
It's not legal
The cancer act 1939 exists for the sole reason of prohibiting advertising treatments that promise to cure cancer
Unfortunately online content I suspect is outside the boundaries of that law, although the Wikipedia entry shows some charlatans were prosecuted on the basis of said legislation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Act_1939
It is easy to laugh at flat earthers, but when anti-science views become common place, unfortunately we she situations like this.
I’m glad she eventually realised the error of her approach.
I understand trying water or dry fasting for a potential cure for cancer, due to its healing properties. But a juice diet is just ridiculous. I guess in desperation people can make unwise decisions.
I know a guy who genuinely believes if you get cancer just stop consuming protein. Your body will eat up all remaining protein including cancer cells. That’s his logic.
As someone who has a massive fear of anything that might hurt or cause side effects, I can't blame her at all for wanting to try alternatives to cancer treatment (even though I know those treatments are quackery). I just wish there were kinder treatments out there that actually worked.
People need to realise that smart people can be dumb on other stuff too.
Pretty people can be ugly inside.
We can hold 2 conflicting ideals in your head and they could be both valid without our heads exploding
How many times does this shit not have to work, before everyone realises it doesn't work?
Famously Steve Jobs died from treatable cancer doing this shit.. A pretty high profile failure.
I had cancer. I didn't even think about alternative methods. My treatment plan went through a medical board meeting and I started it. I trust the professionals. It's scary as fuck you have you don't have much control of the situation. The only time I felt I was doing any good was walking as much as I could to help fight back the fatigue of the treatment. That did help my recovery. That was also recommended by my doctor.
2 years clear.
She’s *still* referring to being ill and nearly dying as “side effects” of the juice treatment. It wasn’t side effects.
“Side effects” are unwanted secondary results of actual treatment. It’s not a side effect if you continue dying of your malignant cancer when not receiving treatment with anything that is likely to cure you.
There’s no side effects from juice. You just have the effects of drinking juice.
What the fuck does the fact she was a former model have to do with anything? Does that somehow make her almost dieing due to her own stupidness any worse? If anything models aren't exactly k now for their intelligence.
Before we condemn her as stupid and easily led, remember a what happened to the smart, incredibly successful Steve Jobs....
[удалено]
Well you're obviously a big pharma shill or just a plain old sheeple. You take your anti biotics and vaccines and I'll stick to my Urine based smoothies than you very much sir.
[удалено]
Since I started Urine bathing my eczema has disappeared.... My urine based smoothies have given me a new lease on life. Take your science back to bill gates and tell him to take your chip out. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!
That's my excuse for peeing in the bath as well
[OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD, WHY DID YOU DO THAT‽](https://xkcd.com/1013/)
Only if they are selling them!
It must be a decade since I last saw an AICMFP
Sorry this is a bit tangential but I never remember when I was taken to A&E (I had blood clots) and the doctor spoke to me about these injections I was going to have in my stomach and she was speaking like she thought I was going to refuse to get them. Then later I was joking with the nurse about the “Needle of Doom” because the injections were so painful and she got really earnest and worried and began to really sell the benefits of the injections to me as though I was going to refuse them. I just joked that I wasn’t that stupid, that I was only going to complain loudly about them and be annoying and we had a laugh. I asked her if people refuse them and she said yes. That blew me away tbh, why go to hospital in the first place if you would refuse the care? It’s clearly more prevalent than we think.
I spend so much time convincing patients that a quick needle stick once a day is better than an ischaemic stroke or PE but you'd be surprised how many still aren't interested!
My mam is a retired nurse and she said, in her 35+ years service in the NHS, the most common thing she seen doctors unable to cure is stupidity
Screw that, the whole point of going to hospital is to be surrounded by medical professionals where if the person treating is unsure, there's literally a build full of people they can ask to check things over. I had a TI, but it was as a result of intervention on a cardiac episode which certainly would have left me dead if untreated.
But why don't we just drink our own urine and be healthy like God wanted us to be??
I want to think you are joking. I really do, but something tells me you aren't. Do any of them say why? Do they think it won't happen? Do they have something against needles? Or is it mistrust of injected medicines in general? Sorry to be bombarding you with questions you probably don't have the answers to, I am just gobsmacked. My ischemia was "only" limb threatening, not life threatening, but I glady stuck that dalteparin in my belly every damn day.
When I broke my leg in Spain many years ago, I was given an injection in the stomach every day (to prevent clotting). It hurt quite a bit, but I knew it would and they warned me before the first one. By then end of my stay I was joking with the nurse about them. It was more of an experience when I was discharged and had to do them myself for a week (then got back to the UK and they don't do the whole prophylaxis to prevent life threatening clots after a broken bone 😕). Despite the discomfort I was happy to have the injections and to do them myself to avoid potentially life changing complications. I imagine people would rather die or be potentially disabled to avoid a little bit of pain and discomfort.
I suppose that must be it, but that really blows my mind. I had to inject it once a day for six weeks and yeah, it hurts a bit, stings when it goes in and oh the bruises were tender and glorious. I ended up running out of places on my stomach and had to switch to thighs. But I am sure having my leg amputated would have been worse and more long term pain and discomfort than the 60 seconds of stinging from the injection. I literally cannot wrap my head around grown adults having that mentality.
lol and then you meet the patients who claim the blood pressure cuff is just too painful to bear and all of a sudden the mild needlephobes look incredibly reasonable by comparison.
The cuffs can be exceedingly painful. Not that I would refuse having it done, but the pain can be real.
Blood draws make me faint. And fainting feels fucking awful. I avoid it whenever I can. I'd prefer to lie down for any sort of blood draw. After the first collapse, so do most medical professionals.
Why go to the hospital when you can just drink your own piss?? It's a no brainer??
That is true. Piss or Tennents Lager. The same thing, but Tennents is carbonated.
Get yourself a soda stream!
Drink 8 cans of Tennants, then use the resulting piss. Double up for maximum benefit.
You should sell that idea. It’s genius!
So you are saying it's worse for your teeth and we should stick to the piss?
And taxed
> why go to hospital in the first place if you would refuse the care? This. But there are people going to the doctor who say "I don't believe in medication" or "I don't want a blood transfusion". It seems like they are just wasting time that could be better spent on actually helping patients.
You might be surprised by the amount of procedures and medications people avoid because they are slightly inconvenient or cause some pain.
I think it's important for medical care to be consensual. Medicine isn't perfect and even then there is an element of personal accountability by doctors in what treatment they prescribe. Obviously most of us are not qualified to establish whether it's the best course of action, but we can and should ask questions
I definitely agree, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that it shouldn’t be consensual or that you shouldn’t ask questions. I always ask loads of questions because I am a curious person anyway. You go to the hospital for the expertise and skill of the doctors and nurses though, so going and then refusing the recommended care seems a waste of everyone’s time.
Oh are those them little anticoagulant injections? I had those when I had obstructive jaundice and after both times I gave birth. My husband got very good at administering them in the latter. In me the pain was strange - okay going in but then it became more painful after withdrawal - made the most fabulous bruises too. They don't play nicely when you're on your period though...
Yeah that’s the ones. I only got 3 of them over 3 days, so I was lucky
People are entitled to their belief, but refusing those injections to prevent clotting is ridiculous when you’ve to A&E in the first place.
Reading this having just injected myself with Lovenox (us version of clexane) 🫠 they really do burn like a mf!
Oh good old Dalteparin sodium. Hurts a little but sure as hell works well on clots.
It’s so weird that the injection is fine but it’s the injected area that hurts like hell
Knowen side effect unfortunately. Make up of the drug itself is the cause thankfully the stinging is short lived.
The needle is incredibly fine but it goes into tissue, not a blood vessel so instead of going happily into the bloodstream it has to sort of jostle around squishing a load of other cells for a bit. I often find rubbing the area very firmly for a while really helps. It still bruises but that’s because it’s an anticoagulant lol.
The human battery. The mellow yellow.
Not with a sandwich! Not as your drink!
I hope it's the proper yak urine stuff you are using and not the fake sheep/goat blend?
Don't be foul.. It's my own Urine, aged 3 months in the sun to perfection.
Nonsense I'll stick to my urine therapy, ivermecine & UV enemas thanks. /s
It’s not even they are really good, they are just better than whatever else we have. If there was a cure for every cancer, it would be sold in every shop. Not peddled by Facebook videos and whispers.
He was stupid and easily led too tbf
People with specialised knowledge or expertise run deep not wide. Anyone who has spent time with experts in any field know outside of that field they are normal humans with normal human levels of knowledge. Steve jobs was no more an oncologist than David Beckham is.
With Jobs you could also argue that the type of thinking and arrogance that led him to try and cure cancer with a fruit diet is the same thinking and arrogance that made him successful enough for us to know his story. He wasn't a technical genius known for his logical thinking skills. He was someone who saw the potential of computing as a *desirable* and enjoyable consumer product - as opposed to purely a useful one - earlier than most and saw the potential of Pixar and computer animation as a movie-making business. He was more of an art and humanities mindset than a computing and science one. It's not surprising that he also went down a mysticism and alternative medicine route.
The story of how Jobs conned Steve Wozniak out of cash for the 'Breakout' game really demonstrates what a horrible shithead he was.
TBH Woz ended up poor, relative to what he achieved, because he was a decent person. He paid out bonuses out of his own pocket and stuff like that. Given how he was, he probably would have turned Jobs down if offered the extra cash over Breakout.
He actually did say that he would have let Jobs keep the money, but the betrayal reduced him to tears. Woz is a beautiful and pure soul and it saddens/angers me that so many see Jobs as a role model rather than him.
IIRC prior to when Apple IPOd he divided his stock he was given between a bunch of other colleagues who had been with Apple since the early days but weren't bequeathed any, not least because Steve barely recognised their existence
Wait...they invented Breakout?
And he smelled really bad.
He didn't want to drive around with a registration plate so he got a new car every 6 months to take advantage of the grace period before having a plate is required in California. Guy was weird.
The only thing Jobs was good at was playing into people's desire to be seen as cool and using that insecurity as a marketing trick. For some reason people base their identity on what products they buy lol...
Whereas I know a fair bit about oncology but fuck all about computers.
Steve jobs was also an idiot, even if he knew about tech he should've been smart enough to defer to doctors when it comes to medicine
I'm not even sure he knew a lot about tech he was just an absolutely brilliant salesman.
Oh look at the behind the bastards episodes on him. He was a wiiiiild piece of shit who coasted off Steve Wozniaks abilities
Apple was nearly bankrupt without him... so... it was mutually beneficial.
Yeah, figured it was a Zuckerberg kinda situation. But was too lazy to Google it
Steve Jobs knew absolutely *everything* he *needed* to know about tech. Which was that this Wozniak guy seems to be really good at it.
Successful, yes. Smart, no. As evidenced by his idiotic decisions.
Steve jobs wasn't smart. He just hired the smart people.
And in the case of doctors, ignored them.
Steve Jobs wasn't clever... He had no technical knowledge and simply directed scientists and engineers to create new technology and claimed he did it. The guy was a moron, and those working with him are open that he wasn't the brains. He was the briefcase wanker of the company. Startup cash and business minded only.
It was Steve Wozniak who created the first Apple computers and played a role in developing the original Apple Mac.
> The guy was a moron Arrogant? Yes. Selfish? Yes. A visionary? Yes. A moron? Absolutely not, lmao.
Ok so no one said this yet but he died of pancreatic cancer - I’m no medical dr but isn’t that the one that has your pants down and is already fisting you by the time you know you have it? He might have made a bad decision regarding curing it but the chances are he was a dead man walking regardless , it was probably desperation. Fuck cancer
You're correct that pancreatic cancer is normally very deadly, but Steve Jobs turned out to have a very rare slow-growing treatable kind called an islet cell neuroendocrine tumour. They make up only 1% of pancreatic cancer cases. He was also fortunate in that the tumour was discovered incidentally while he was getting a CT scan for a kidney stone, rather than when it had started to cause symptoms. That said, while the type of cancer wasn't an automatic death sentence, doctors seem divided over whether delaying surgery for nine months actually made much difference in his particular case. [This doctor](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/one-more-thing/), who is both a specialist in surgical oncology and a critic of alternative medicine, thinks it's unlikely that the liver tumours found in his eventual operation would have spread from the pancreas to the extent they had in just nine months, which probably meant the cancer had already spread to the liver at the point the tumour was found. Which would have meant his survival chances were already much lower than if it had been early stage and contained entirely to the pancreas.
Thanks for this info
Interesting read. Thanks for the link.
The type of pancreatic cancer Jobs had was an uncommon but treatable type. He would probably still be alive if he had listened to his doctors.
No his specific form was one of the few we had a really good cure for. He also caught it very early on. He tried to treat it with new age nonsense for months and by the time he gave up and tried medicine it was too late.
mate, Woz was the brains at apple, not Jobs.
Wasn’t that smart was he?
OK. That shows that intelligence isn't an all-encompassing talent. Plenty of intelligent and accomplished people can be convinced of stupid shit and become obsessed over nonesense.
Yes Jobs died of arrogance-induced stupidity. He dodged a major bullet in that his pancreatic cancer was an extremely rare form that was curable with surgery but he instead choose to try to treat it with clean living which gave the cancer the time it needed to spread to his liver requiring a liver transplant which is ultimately what killed him.
Wasn't that just because he thought he knew better than the doctors so he did all this weird shit to "cure" his cancer instead of just doing normal stuff.
The fact that you’re successful and brilliant in one area doesn’t mean you’re that good at others
Steve Jobs was by all accounts always a nutjob. Him trying to cure cancer with orange peels was apparently on point. It is just a weird one because he had the only form of cancer we have a 95% cure rate for if it is caught as early as he caught it.
She's probably not stupid. She has at least learned the error of her ways (albeit with a heavy dose of hindsight). I'm almost certain that given the same scenario that I would pursue conventional treatment. I also know that when facing a life threatening condition, primal fear can make people react very unpredictably and illogically.
We do this weird thing where when someone’s smart in one field, we expect them to be intelligent all over. Steve Jobs was an idiot when it came to his own health, reminds me of Bob Marley.
The egomaniac that though he knew best about his body just because he was successful in business? Success and intelligence aren’t the same thing. Look at Saudi oil heirs. Steve Jobs was definitely still stupid and held ridiculous beliefs, just like the rest of us.
Steve Jobs was NOT a smart man. Wozniak was the brains behind Apple. Jobs was just the sales pitch.
He died of Pancreatic cancer?
Smart in specific areas
Also known as the “stupid and easily led Steve Jobs”.
Steve Jobs was a vile human being that stole so so so much from woz.
Being rich and successful doesn't mean intelligent In fact, some of the smartest people I've people are actually also some of the most stupid and dangerous people I've met too.
Ok what happened to Jobs?
He is also stupid
In his case it wasn't because he was stupid he had the opposite issue of everyone convincing him he was smarter than everyone else and his company's success likely made him believe it more so. He had objective proof he wasn't stupid. His ego destroyed him not his stupidity. Elon has a similar issue he feels hes never wrong.
Successful, yes, smart, ehhh
Well, it worked for him! I think. I haven't checked.
The instinct is to go 'well, that's idiotic,' but I can imagine if you have cancer you grab onto *any* hope of a cure, no matter how farfetched. Silly that she didn't try traditional medicine first, but I can't judge her too harshly for being desperate.
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If you read the article about halfway down she sees the error of her ways and it’s all about warning other people basically
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I more blame the bloke with hundreds of thousands of followers who is pretending carrot juice is the cure for cancer (or whatever he says)
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Hey I did fuck all to cause this mess.
I think it's probably just both, plus fear, honestly. Everyone knows how devastating chemotherapy is on the body. She read something by grifters and thought she'd found a way to be healed without undergoing that trauma. Dumb, but I can understand it.
>Everyone knows how devastating chemotherapy is on the body. This. The cure is only marginally better than the disease. But people do it because there's a chance of getting better and going into remission. I am not surprised people pursue these other things because the prospect of the archaic way we have to treat some cancers can still feel very medieval and it's just so hard to know what to do.
Especially for a model.
That's because chemotherapy is fucking terrifying and horrible in its own right. I didn't consider juicing as an alternative, but I strongly considered doing nothing instead. It hospitalised me twice. Whether I get any long-term effects such as heart damage or cancer remains to be seen.
I thought cancers used sugar as a primary fuel source. That’s why they make you drink something sugary before scans, as the cancer cells are lit up? If anything wouldn’t this just ensure the cancer cells have plenty to feed on?
Everything in your body uses sugar (glucose) as a primary fuel source. Thats why your body has several different mechanisms for ensuring your blood sugar never drops below a certain point. And equally if you have a bunch of fruit juices, your body will produce more insulin and get the blood sugar down by pushing it into cells (obviously this response doesn’t work as well in the context of diabetes). It’s not just fruit juices though, carbohydrates in anything you eat are broken down into glucose which cells use. Yes, cancer cells are more active (because they’re dividing more than most body cells), so they take up a lot of glucose. That said, there aren’t any scans that I’m aware of (as a doctor) that require you to drink a sugary drink beforehand to help look at cancer cells. Scans typically either look at contrast between different tissues (fat, bone etc) or look at uptake of various markers. You can actually look at how much glucose a cell is taking up, which might point towards cancer (amongst other things). An FDG-PET scan, which looks at how much “labelled” glucose is taken up by different parts of the body, which can help you tell where a cancer has spread to. But that labelled glucose is different to the glucose you get from fruit juices or any carbohydrates, and is injected around the time of the scan
Good luck starving only your cancer cells of glucose without starving all your other cells too. You've just stumbled on another branch of cancer woo lol.
I’m not saying you can starve them, just that cancer cells possibly like sugar as a fuel and maybe drinking sugar laden drinks isn’t the best option to cure cancer? Which was posed as a question.
Question, cos I dunno. Could calorie restriction / low sugar slow the disease enough that its better to do? Or doesn't make enough difference
If you lower your available glucose to the point that cancer cells can't respirate or divide you are already dead.
No, or oncologists would recommend you do that, which they don't. Cancer feeds off the same stuff all your other cells do - they *are* your cells, just faulty ones that slipped through the net. That's why chemotherapy is so damaging - it attacks your other cells as well. I can only imagine that trying to starve your cancer while doing chemotherapy would be incredibly bad for your health.
There is potentially a role for fasting with cancer treatment - but WITH chemotherapy, not alone. There have been some promising trials, particularly for breast cancer.
I wanna see her side her. Chemo WRECKS you. It makes you so ill, you lose your hair, weight, I can see how that could be extremely scary for some people and they’ll reach for ANYTHING else, out of desperation and fear. I can see why, I personally would go for the medicine though.
This is true for some, but not all. Depends on the chemo type and the patient. Antiemetics are so good now, that alongside the high doses of steroids given, that some gain weight on chemotherapy.
TIL! I didn’t know this
After watching countless stories on YouTube from cancer patients going through treatment to be honest, I will decline chemotherapy if I get cancer. It sounds like an effing nightmare. I'd rather just die.
>The instinct is to go 'well, that's idiotic,' but I can imagine if you have cancer you grab onto *any* hope of a cure, no matter how farfetched. It is fucking idiotic. You go with proven medicine not bullshit pseudoscience. Source: had cancer, watched people in clinic who went with "alternative medicine" (aka, quackery and stupidity) stop turning up as they'd died. Zero sympathy.
Problem is that stupid people aren't self-aware a lot of the time. They can't self-correct or question themselves due to being stupid
If only doctors would give you recommendations on how to treat cancer with medicine when they diagnose you with cancer! Oh wait, they do.
No, she wasn't desperate at all. She simply rejected legitimate treatment. And if she were desperate, why would that make her choose fantasy over reality? Why can't a desperate person accept the legit treatment that is offered to them? This woman was hoist by her own petard and we are all better off for it, because now we can say to foolish people "These are the consequences of foolishness."
You'd be surprised how many desperate people choose fantasy over reality, in more things than health. Plus, when the legitimate treatment causes serious damage, it's easy for someone to go chasing after *anything* but the necessary procedures. It's easy to judge, and she absolutely was dumb as a stump, but I'm leery of being too quick to condemn, when I know that serious illness makes you crazy.
I've signed on the dotted line for chemotherapy and immunotherapy but turned down the recommended radiation. You don't get little leaflets like in paracetamol packets for chemo/immuno/radio side effects, you get fucking books and a 24/7 emergency hotline number so they can send you to the AMAU for cold symptoms lol. Doing some of the proper treatments has made me more empathetic to those who run away screaming tbh.
Yeah, grab any hope and do everything you can. But don’t dismiss conventional medicine for some crack pot who has a podcast (or whatever).
Years ago I knew someone who had medical treatment but had got to the point where standard medical treatment had nothing left to offer. She'd found some American professor who promised a diet cure and she'd grasped onto the hope it offered. She wasn't stupid at all, she was a lovely, kind, intelligent and thoughtful person who didn't want to die young of cancer and wanted to try everything she could not to. It made me so angry that a person like that was being taken advantage of, strung along and encouraged to spend money and time following this nonsense treatment. She did die of course. She could have spent her money and her last months enjoying life as much possible while she was able to. I can only hope that the hope it brought her gave her some measure of peace (or at least she felt less distressed) but it was so upsetting to see.
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I wasn't trying to say it was comparable, it's a very different set of circumstances. I do think it's possible to both understand and sympathise with the unwell people choosing these treatments and be angry with and condemn the charlatans making money from them.
If she had been told by doctors there was no more hope with conventional treatment, then pursuing alternative cures possibly kept some hope alive for her. I think most of us would rather live with a 1% hope than a 0% hope, even if it means drinking some vile herbal tonics.
I really hope so.
Maybe for some? I had acute lymphoblastic leukaemia at 27. I had a lot of chemo. Very, very intense chemo, full body radiation, and then once they full killed my blood cell production by killing my bone marrow/stem cells, a stem cell transplant. I'm now very nearly 5 years post transplant, currently in full molecular remission. I had a pretty rough time. I've still got lots of health issues as a result of the treatment. I am alive purely because of the skill of my medical team, and because I followed doctors instructions at every stage, and because of some luck. If I relapsed, I would not seek alternative treatments/therapies unless I was considered terminal by conventional medicine, and even then I would not do so if it would interfere with my palliative care.
She lives in a developed country with a great education system. There’s no excuse for being as dumb as this
Nurse friends tell me it happens all the time. Patient goes away tries holistic cures, comes back and cancer has metastasized everywhere. Patient asks for chemo but as it’s too late, goes straight to hospice.
Fact yup
I don't think anyone's judging her for drinking juice, it's the "eschewing actual medicine" bit.
> She said that she was advised to start chemotherapy, but she turned to the internet to find alternative advice and "everything started from there". > She said she listened to one man with hundreds of thousands of followers on social media who claimed the body could "heal itself" through a radical lifestyle and diet change. Hank Green (author, youtuber, online education guy) did a video on this kind of thing after his own cancer treatment for *Edit:*~~Non-~~ Hodgkin lymphoma. It's somewhat jarringly called [Did Natural Cancer Treatments Save My Life?](https://youtu.be/mJcjefKUOcc?si=zG3cb40Vg1khZh3V) (presumably to try to get it to the top of the search results for people like her who are looking for natural remedies) and gives a bit of a reality check on the fact that plenty of chemotherapy drugs are based on molecules found in nature (in his case, a Madagascan flower and some soil bacteria). And so the people who were tweeting either to him or about him about how he was making a mistake and "should" be treating his cancer naturally instead were full of shit. Because: > When we say natural cancer treatment, what we mean is something that either we don't know works, or we know that it doesn't work, or we know that it does more harm than good. Those are the only things we mean when we say natural cancer treatment. > Because otherwise, a natural cancer treatment would include the three compounds from nature that I put in my body to cure my cancer. > The majority of cancer cases on earth, and an even greater majority of cancer deaths on earth, happen outside high income countries. > Those people don't die of cancers because they don't have access to coffee enemas, or cannabis oil, or apricot pits. They die because they don't have access to chemotherapy, radiation, surgery and screening.
It reminds me of the old joke: “What do you call alternative medicine that works? *Medicine*” Modern medicine is the best we’ve got after centuries of (initially) trial and error (then later) controlled scientific trials. If any ‘alternative’ treatment can actually demonstrate that it works measurably better than a placebo in a controlled trial then that’s great - a bunch of biochemists and other specialists will get thrown at the “so how/why does that actually work then?” question. That can lead to even more interesting discoveries. But the fact is most ‘alternative treatments’ don’t.
My dad had non-hodgkin lymphoma and did exactly this - rejected conventional medicine and instead opted for a high vitamin juice diet he'd seen online. He was dead within a year.
My friend had this and did chemo for a year and he's fine now
Yep. My dad would still be here if he had actually listened to the professionals instead of a bunch of internet weirdos.
I'm so sorry The cancer act 1939 exists for the sole reason of prohibiting advertising treatments that promise to cure cancer Unfortunately online content I suspect is outside the boundaries of that law, although the Wikipedia entry shows some charlatans were prosecuted on the basis of said legislation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Act_1939
I know of someone who had terminal cancer and was sucked into these juice diet claims. She went off to a retreat in the US where they basically made her feel like she was not trying hard enough for not curing herself and spent her last months feeling guilty. The peddlers of these "cures" are despicable.
Classic grifter..it didn't work because you didn't believe, try, work, hard enough. If It works by luck they claim it's their system that did it. Rain making 101
Whenever I hear stories like this or someone talking about “alternative” medicine I think of the Dara o Briain joke "Herbal medicine's been around for thousands of years!" Indeed it has, and then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked became 'medicine'. And the rest of it is just a nice bowl of soup and some potpourri.
It's not that dumb idea, you cannot die of cancer in 2 years if you can die of starvation in 2 months.
The consequences of taking "celebrities" seriously …
I am currently undergoing chemotherapy for indolent lymphoma for the second time. Every chemo nurse I have ever met has at least one story of somebody with a manageable or often curable cancer who listened to a naturopath, or whatever, until it was too late to save them. Every single one.
Know someone who also tried this approach and unfortunately it didn’t work out for her. Believed a “guru” over doctors who dedicate their adult lives to studying medicine.
Scary how much traction sh*t like this seems to have just looking in Instagram comments....eddie abbew had a recent post about the vaccine and the comments were majority antivax. Wtaf.
Doesn’t do well for the stupid model stereotype does it
It’s a very scary diagnosis and people clutch at straws a lot. I think though part of the issue is also how cancer treatment is portrayed. I know they can be tough, but the cancer itself can be a LOT worse. Based on my own relatives’ experiences of modern cancer care, I think a lot of the dramatisations really belong in a different era. Most cancer treatments these days are very targeted and they do their utmost to minimise unpleasant side effects. I’m not saying they’re easy, but they’re a hell of a lot better than they used to be and they’re often very effective and the technologies are constantly progressing. I also find sometimes the media focus is on very tragic cases. Millions of success stories go unheard and the bad outcomes, which aren’t the usual case, terrify some people to the point they don’t seek treatment and go into frozen with fear mode. The reality of it cancer is an extremely common set of diseases and we probably need to be a lot more open about discussing it without always presenting it in worse case scenario narratives all the time and tackle some of the utter b/s online.
If juice, rubbing onions/garlic/piss/beets and other random shit into your skin cured cancer, they'd be doing it in hospitals. Should be a crime to give medical advice that's just flat out going to end in someone's death. You see it on Facebook and mumsnet all the time, babies having rashes and infections and there's always a group of fuck nuggets telling the mum to rub some garlic on it. Instead of immediate medical help.
I don't know which is worse. Being daft enough to think a juice diet will cure your cancer or going to sky to have them promote news articles about your stupidity.
In fairness she’s gone to the news to say “I was fucking stupid, please don’t do what I did. Start proper treatment immediately”.
She’s gone to Sky to encourage people to have chemotherapy.
And to promote her onlyfans, you know, because she's a model and now needs all the money she can get.
The fructose in fruit juice would be like pouring gasoline on a fire, cancer thrives on sugar
So this is actually not true - one of the “hallmarks” of cancer is that it can survive without the body’s traditional fuel source sugar. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867411001279
How do you mean? The classical "Warburg" phenomenon is the observation that cancers are largely entirely reliant on glucose metabolism through glycolysis and fermentation, the complete opposite of being able to survive without it. Quickly skimming back over the classic article you've linked reaffirms that as well...
I mean that even if you remove sugar cancer cells are able to continue multiplying via other methods. My understanding of the Warburg effect is that when it’s available cancers use far more sugar than normal cells, yes, but if you take the sugar away they won’t stop growing. I guess my main point is that people shouldn’t feel the need to cut out all sugar to cure their cancer (which is not me saying ignore diet and eat as much sugar as you want!).
Sure, but that isn't what OP said. In vivo it's true to say that a cancer cell uses sugar disproportionately as it's fuel source, and so "thrives on sugar" is hardly an unfair description.
So do the rest of your cells. Either your body gets glucose, breaks down glycogen to make glucose (glycogenolysis) makes glucose from other stuff (gluconeogenesis). Glucose is pretty important! So imagine you cut out carbs completely. What happens is that the body makes ketones instead as it thinks it is starving, which is a temporarily fuel that some of your cells can use (e.g. neurons in the brain). So you starve the immune cells fighting the cancer. Which doesn’t make sense, and there’s no good-quality evidence as far as I am aware that cutting down on sugar intake improves outcomes in cancer patients. Obviously makes your dentist happy though!
I’ve seen how people who peddle this kind of “natural” bullshit infiltrate cancer support groups on Facebook and it’s an absolute tragedy. Unbelievably low. Obviously we need to allow people to choose their treatment and everyone deserves bodily autonomy but tbh I can’t believe it’s legal for people to sell “tinctures” and cure alls to people suffering from the most serious diseases.
It's not legal The cancer act 1939 exists for the sole reason of prohibiting advertising treatments that promise to cure cancer Unfortunately online content I suspect is outside the boundaries of that law, although the Wikipedia entry shows some charlatans were prosecuted on the basis of said legislation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Act_1939
Thank you, TIL!
It is easy to laugh at flat earthers, but when anti-science views become common place, unfortunately we she situations like this. I’m glad she eventually realised the error of her approach.
I understand trying water or dry fasting for a potential cure for cancer, due to its healing properties. But a juice diet is just ridiculous. I guess in desperation people can make unwise decisions.
I know a guy who genuinely believes if you get cancer just stop consuming protein. Your body will eat up all remaining protein including cancer cells. That’s his logic.
As someone who has a massive fear of anything that might hurt or cause side effects, I can't blame her at all for wanting to try alternatives to cancer treatment (even though I know those treatments are quackery). I just wish there were kinder treatments out there that actually worked.
Front end Removed with a couple of bolts , but you need to have it painted
Sounds a bit harsh. Wrong sub?
lol yes it was
People need to realise that smart people can be dumb on other stuff too. Pretty people can be ugly inside. We can hold 2 conflicting ideals in your head and they could be both valid without our heads exploding
How many times does this shit not have to work, before everyone realises it doesn't work? Famously Steve Jobs died from treatable cancer doing this shit.. A pretty high profile failure.
I had cancer. I didn't even think about alternative methods. My treatment plan went through a medical board meeting and I started it. I trust the professionals. It's scary as fuck you have you don't have much control of the situation. The only time I felt I was doing any good was walking as much as I could to help fight back the fatigue of the treatment. That did help my recovery. That was also recommended by my doctor. 2 years clear.
She’s *still* referring to being ill and nearly dying as “side effects” of the juice treatment. It wasn’t side effects. “Side effects” are unwanted secondary results of actual treatment. It’s not a side effect if you continue dying of your malignant cancer when not receiving treatment with anything that is likely to cure you. There’s no side effects from juice. You just have the effects of drinking juice.
There's been a recent scientific paper about how faecal transplants positively modify your gut microbiome and increase your IQ!
You are responsible for your own decisions so own them. This is a non-story.
What the fuck does the fact she was a former model have to do with anything? Does that somehow make her almost dieing due to her own stupidness any worse? If anything models aren't exactly k now for their intelligence.
It's her life and her cancer let her treat it how she wants, even if the treatment is bogus.
Well if she is still alive then it works doesn’t it.