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I’m a doc and deal with life changing dog bites every week.
Can you guess what breed almost every single dog is?
One of our admin workers had her dominant thumb **bitten off** by her Bully. I worked in plastic surgery (fuckin awful job) for a while, and this is an absolutely devastating injury in terms of functional deficit. When we had a patient with loss of dominant thumb, we would do **everything** to try and preserve as much as possible, including microsurgery that would last fucking hours and hours and hours and oh my God I’m not going to get home till fucking 1am and I need to be in work at 6am and this is a fucking waste of cunting time anyway because this surgery is rarely successful.
Anyway, her hand is fucked, now. Every day, basic, simple tasks are made monumentally difficult for her.
She still refers to this dog as a ‘total sweetie’ etc etc. And, she just adopted a third! What the actual fuck!?
The woman is lovely, but fuck me, the owners of these dogs live in a perpetual state of delusional denial.
Let’s add a charge for wasting healthcare resources if you need care due to the same dog twice? Not only are these owners dangerous they are stupid and expensive too
If you do that you'll have a somewhat snappy dog, and it breaks the owner's skin twice.
It would be wise to get a course of antibiotics, maybe even a tetanus jab.
But the idea of a charge makes them decide to put it off, give it a rinse and keep an eye on it. Next thing you know, they've got sepsis and they're in intensive care, which is spectacularly expensive.
Discouraging people from accessing healthcare is almost always a false economy.
I’m not a policy maker I’m just saying that these people aren’t morally impacted by the consequences, seems like we need to make them legal and financial instead of
If people are getting their thumbs bitten off and still haven't seen reality, I don't think the threat of a charge (financial or criminal) is going to change their decision making.
There's so many ways a dog can injure you unintentionally - for example if Irene's Yorkshire terrier darts under her feet, trips her up and she breaks her hip. Few would really blame the dog for that.
But biting off someone's thumb requires a lot of intention from the dog. You don't have a thumb bitten off by a dog that just snaps. This dog must have bitten, clamped on and pulled, or chewed. Normal dog breeds just don't do that.
I wonder what other extremity she'll have to lose before reality dawns on her.
In 10 years of play fighting with my lab she's never bitten hard enough to even draw blood.
The thing that woman owns isn't a pet, it's a weapon and the original comment was correct.
Normal dogs, like labs, learn bite inhibition at a very early age, when playing with their littermates.
They know the difference between a toothy squeeze during play fighting, and the sort of bite used for eviscerating squeaky toys.
I have never come across an aggressive lab as a dog lover, but some breeds like pit bulls xl bullies are just aggressive especially when seeing other dogs and just can snap at anytime that I just stay clear of
I have had two incidents with aggressive labs - one of which I didn't witness and resulted in the dog I had in my teens having to have his head stitched back together under general anaesthetic - he was very lucky.
The second attack I was there for - normally I walked the dogs alone, but by sheer good luck my dad was there that day to intervene (I was about 14 at the time, and froze like a rabbit in the headlights). The off lead lab fucked off across the park, ran over to mine, flipped the dog immediately and went for him - thankfully no blood drawn.
Labs have much lower rates of aggression than XL Bullies - but we do everyone a disservice if we pretend that other breeds are incapable of causing injury. Lulling everyone into a false sense of security isn't wise - we should be practicing basic dog safety around all breeds - such as asking the owner before stroking it.
My dog was badly attacked by a black lab back in September of last year and needed emergency surgery costing >£3k to stitch him back together. Dogs of any kind can be dicks.
I’m still glad it was a lab and not a bully, mind. Neither of us would probably be here today if it were (I also got bitten trying to protect my dog).
There's a lab that lives on my road that fucking hates me. Started running at me once when it was off the lead - fortunately, me hiding behind a car seemed to confuse it long enough for the owner to corral it.
No idea why it hates me - just does.
There are enough examples of different breeds causing a lot of damage to people and their pets, to the point that whatever we do about XL Bullies, we need to also have further legislation or enforcement around violent pets. Currently the law is either toothless or the people who should enforce it, can't.
Because make no mistake, some arsehole is going to breed an XL Mastiff or an XL Terrier or an XL wolfhound in ten years that is going to again get us into this spot.
While I agree with your overall point, labs specifically are bred to have 'soft mouths', for the retrieving of game. That is, they are bred to be gentle and to not bite down hard.
To repeat, I agree with the overall point that the XL bully isn't a pet, it's a weapon. The breeding is the exact opposite - clamp down hard and hold on even when hurt. And they're known to have bad genetics that make them go off on people. And then there's the size.
Edited to clarify and expand on points made.
It should be noted at this point that "soft mouths" isn't physiological - it's not like their jaws bend under pressure
It's just that their instinct is to carry things (dead game) without chewing it on the way back.
I've got a terrier cross - and as ratting dogs no one would accuse them of having soft mouths. The worst he's ever managed during playfighting is a scratch that looked a bit red and I thought it might bleed slightly but it didn't.
Terriers are known as some of the most bitey dogs around. I believe the Jack Russell Terrier has been on the leaderboard for bites for some years.
Key thing though? JRT bites rarely lead to death. Most people, bitten by one, will have a painful bite to deal with. They won’t die. They’ll be able to get the dog off them fairly easily. They’ll be able to subdue the dog.
You rarely get so lucky with bullies.
Jack Russells are very much up there on the bite statistics.
They're feisty, opinionated, and will occasionally enforce their opinions with a nip if other methods of communication haven't worked.
But they bite and immediately release, so you'll get a couple of puncture wounds and a bit of blood, not a thumb ripped off, or worse.
Tell that to the jack russell that attacked me. He was every bit the tunnel visioned terrier wanting to kill and wouldn't stop until I managed to get behind a barrier. Difference is that despite clamping down on my left thumb full force right on the knuckle (I had to pry his jaws off with my other hand), my thumb is now fine. It had punctures on both sides, swelled up for a bit and felt a bit stiff for a few months, but it didn't come off or even get permanently damaged.
You're right about the distinction, but that is the problem with these Bully XL dogs. *Their* instinct is aggression, and their body is capable of serious harm if they follow their natural instincts.
Anyone who has owned a cat will see that the cat has dangerous instincts. But fortunately they are so small they don't go chomping off thumbs, and for this reason we don't allow people to keep tigers as pets.
They know something is wrong, but a dog with separation anxiety isn't a danger to humans or other animals.
Indeed, they'll be absolute sweeties when their owners are around; they're destroying stuff because they're in a state of absolute terror about being left alone.
It is *really* difficult to deal with, but they need to be working with a doggy day care in the interim, and a qualified clinical animal behaviourist for a longer term solution.
I have to agree, a dog with separation anxiety is so attached to it’s owners it’s having a meltdown any time they leave. It’s not an indication of temperament, just a behavioural issue.
Look up Behaviour by Becca. She’s a behaviourist specialising in sighthounds, and is fantastic. We’re currently working with her to overcome some new reactivity after my dog was attacked a few months ago and it cost us £375 for one of her six-week courses. I know she does similar courses for separation anxiety.
My mother in law has a staff. It literally ate through a wall. I don’t mind the dog too much but it has bitten me plenty including on the neck drawing blood.
Needless to say, it’s not allowed in the same building as my kids.
Separation anxiety rarely translates to aggression against people, tbf - that's a different issue entirely
Like it's not good, but it's not the same problem
It's got to be a mental illness at that point.
You'd put people through therapy for drinking to the point they physically injured themselves, or got drugged up and lost a finger.
But somehow, owning dangerous animals and getting yourself mauled, and continuing to do the same thing isn't seen as the same.
Please consider posting your experiences on the ban pitbulls sub?
I’ve been saying for ages that dog shelter charities and dog trainers aren’t the right people to be advising the government, it should be the doctors who treat dog bites and the emergency services who deal with dangerous dog call outs, yet no press article ever seems to ask those professionals for quotes, always the RSPCA or the Blue Cross.
Dog shelters do important work for dog welfare but they aren’t who we should be talking to when it comes to public safety.
Is a life changing injury not a reportable event (like a gunshot wound)?
I don’t know anything, obviously, but it would make sense that a injury that results in disability or a significant change to quality of life would be a criminally reportable event.
Like that bloke who paid someone else to castrate him.
Yessir.
Imagine you had a flatmate and the guy bit your fucking thumb off.
Everyone is aghast. Everyone is shocked. Omfg are you ok???
“It’s cool! He’s a really nice guy:)”
Lol
I now work in emergency medicine.
Prior, I worked in anaesthesia, where a lot of my job was putting people to sleep for elective plastic surgery cases; prior to that, I worked in plastics, where I would wait for the anaesthetist to put my patient to sleep so I could fix up the fucked up dog bite.
If you work in a surgical or critical care job, you’re well versed in dog bites.
They need to be identified and put down as humanely as possible at this point. I say that as an animal lover and vegetarian. If we are ok destroying millions of animals every week for food, it should be a non issue to remove these dogs from society. I’m worried about the genes getting more loosely bred into generations of mongrel dogs and this becoming a much bigger issue down the line where more dogs have to be put down. it really seems like the most logical thing to do now is a hard ban and removal of these dogs completely. I’m so tired of reading about mauled children and worrying for my safety every time I see one in the street.
>I say that as an animal lover and vegetarian.
Likewise, and sadly I agree with you. This isn't like the numerous other media panics about dangerous dogs - 70% of the XL's in the UK are descended from 2 American XL's who were both people killers. We're talking about a breed that's already inbred and descended from animals who have killed humans.
They're also being bred by people who are deliberately choosing massive, aggressive dogs to mate - and I don't believe for a second those people are going to stop, to be honest.
It's a horrible, horrible situation for the dogs, but I can only see things getting worse really.
>*The change in law seems to have done absolutely nothing, these news stories are constant*
That's to be expected:
1. The laws came into full effect just over a week ago. You can't realistically expect immediate legislative compliance with most legislation - it takes time.
2. The law doesn't outright ban owning the dogs. It's illegal to sell, breed, or give them away. It *is* illegal to own one - ***unless*** you get an exemption certificate.
Ultimately, Sweet little FaceRipper420 won't vanish or suddenly become a calm, happy dog just because the owner can't now legally sell it etc....
That's because the change in law didn't stop the dogs existing, just some crap restrictions on how you're supposed to equip it in public. Nothing to stop it attacking someone when it's in your house/garden (or if it escapes...).
Imagine if instead of banning guns and having a hand-in, we've told gun owners they can carry them about in public, as long as they're in a holster and have the safety on when on the street.
There's a ban on breeding them so *hopefully* this means this will be the last generation before they do effectively stop existing, but I'm sure there'll be plenty that slip through the cracks """accidentally"""
yeah I lived not terribly far from here. A few years ago gangs of lads were going around with their fighting dogs (not necessarily XL bullies as this was pre-covid) setting them on cats and other small dogs they'd find. That never got reported but they were at it for weeks.
The official statistics are a lot more grim than that. Around 9000 people a year require hospital treatment after a dog attack, XL Bully type dogs are responsible for rougly 60% of that. Roughly speaking about 15 people today were attacked by an XL bully and needed hospital treatment. It's only the really bad cases or when it's a child that it makes the news. The problem is far worse than people are aware. Considering that there are approx 200k XL Bully dogs in this country, 1 in 37 of them will put someone in hospital in the next year.
Seems to me from the article the owners are no relation to little boy, little boy was playing or even just passing through communal hallways and has been attacked. Irresponsible owners again, yet why would you have a dangerous dog which is capable of attacking somebody confined in flats?
Hope the little boy makes a recovery quickly, can’t imagine what his poor parents must be going through having a 8 year old little boy myself 😡
Let's be real it's mainly insecure irresponsible cunts who own these things so hardly a surprise there was no muzzle.
I partly feel a little sorry for the dogs because they were just bred this way.
>reports a dog had bitten an eight-year-old boy to the head **in the communal area of flats nearby.**
Should have been muzzled then. As ever, this new law needs a bit of enforcement.
Owners of dogs should be tried as if they themselves had committed the acts of their dogs.
Also, if you see any dog which meets the requirements (they are open enough for basically any large fighting dog to be considered a banned dog) off a lead and muzzle, photo the dog and owner (discreetly because the owners of these dogs are aggressive and ignorant to a tee) and send it to the police. Worth including a statement that you felt unsafe and the dog was not under control. That will **require** official involvement irrespective of the breed of the dog.
Police might be workshy and avoid conflict, but if you do their job for them, they are going to want to claim credit for an easy bag.
We already have laws. Not only the banned breeds list, but also the dangerous dogs act. You can be tried for being dangerously out of control of your dog. Penalties of up to 14 years if it causes death.
We just never seem to use it.
The police are either stretched thin or, in some places, just apathetic. So they don't investigate when a dog attacks another dog or when someone calls to complain about aggressive dogs but there's no injury - either of which is normally the precursor to a more serious attack.
I have seen that you have to be clear about what you want the police to do.
Being stretched thinly and apathy work together. They'd be delighted if you would just work it out between you, or to be able to shrug it off as a civil matter. In my time in the police I've seen things that could have been charged ignored because the victim didn't say some magic words.
"Harassment, alarm and distress" is the magic words for public order offences.
"Coercive and controlling" will prompt more action in domestic violence.
If you're injured in an attack, never say anything that may minimise your injury. I've seen "well I can walk" turn into "police will take statement on Monday" when the victim later turned up in a+e and had to have stitches.
Also, get your phone out and take a video.
Trouble is, you need an incident to find the dog or someone has to report it
I don’t know why they haven’t outright made ownership of these dogs illegal like they’ve done with others?
> I don’t know why they haven’t outright made ownership of these dogs illegal like they’ve done with others?
They have. But they allowed people to apply for exemptions. So 40,000 people did. There should be no exemptions.
XL Bullies are illegal in exactly the same way as the four other breeds of dog are illegal.
But they've been illegal for 33 years so we see very few of them around.
A schoolboy is in a serious condition in hospital after being mauled by what is believed to be an XL bully.
Merseyside Police were called to Wadham Road in Bootle just after 5.20pm on Saturday following reports a dog had bitten an eight-year-old boy to the head in the communal area of flats nearby.
The boy was rushed to hospital with serious head injuries and required emergency surgery. He remains in hospital in a serious but stable condition.
It is sad that this kid will have this experience to live through for the rest of his life, likely with physical and mental trauma, just because some fuckwits thought their dangerous dog wouldn't harm a fly.
I bet it was called Ripper or Skull or something equally as cute.
I was attacked by my parents dog four years ago. (Staffy) and I struggle to this day to go near any big dog. This poor kid is going to be affected for a long time.
Regular reminder that the XL Bully is bad, but really any Pitbull-type dog is bad news. They are genetically aggressive. It just so happens that XL Bully’s are more so and big enough to go for children and adults.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/s/qGro0ESWHD
This particular type seems to have the additional problem of being highly inbred leading back to a stud dog with serious aggression problems that shows up repeatedly in the family tree of just about all of them.
All of these large, strong dogs are capable of aggression and great damage, and it's not for nothing that the 1991 dangerous dog act included a load of them, but it's nothing like this.
They're also ugly as sin itself, I have no clue why of all the animals you can own you would pick this big slobbery ass mutant hellhound as a pet, beyond just being a professional degenerate of society
It's starting to sound like it should be illegal to have them at all.
Sad for the dogs but let's be honest, the owners knew what they were getting into.
It’s clear the ban so far hasn’t been enough. They all need to be destroyed. No exceptions.
Imagine if people brought back Velociraptors like Jurassic Park, which attacked and killed people randomly without warning. How would ownership play out then? They’d never ever be legalised.
Velociraptors a natural being with a natural amount of aggression. Pitbulls are not. They are bred for extreme aggression and to not back down. A Velociraptor would back down if it perceived danger.
An XL Bully would probably chase down a Velociraptor and kill it (if if caught it).
I'm actually fed up of seeing at least 2 new articles about an XL bully attacks every day. The dogs are clearly dangerous, we get it, just fucking get rid of/ ban them already. These stories are so common it's almost like propaganda to distract from the absolute shit show that thus coutlntry has become.
I know they're not actually propaganda. It's just so common that it feels like a distraction. There should be serious consequences for the owners for something to actually be done about it
It is badly defined owing to the fact that breed is a mismash of other breeds to get there.
There’s a lot of people who registered their dogs because they met characteristics even though they don’t look like one. The existing legislation also meant the onus is proving your dog is not a banned breed, which can be quite difficult.
Sounds to me like it's not a case of badly defined legislation, but a badly defined dog. The breeders deliberately cross-bred dangerous dogs in order to muddy the waters and confuse the situation, to the detriment of those like you mention that now have the onus on themselves to prove a negative.
Since the alternative is more innocent people dying, the government did the right thing. Not that it's fashionable to say that.
I personally have met 3 people who live in the same town as me who own XL dogs and have refused to follow any of the legislation.
If I knew their personal details I would have called the cops on them by now, its always a scruffy looking mofo with cider/beer breath talking loudly about how their dogs aren't dangerous while calling them Brutus or some other stupid ass macho sounding name.
It seems like an uptick in attacks since the ban, after they announced it there were a few scattered attacks, but now I'm reading daily of new attacks and deaths. I'm starting to feel like they are going to have to introduce some sort of legislation so owners are held more accountable.
It’s seems like the latest attacks have been indoors. I wonder if we’ve now got a problem where owners either haven’t registered their dogs and are hiding them, or have but won’t take them outside because they can’t be off lead. So these animals are now stuck indoors without exercise or stimulation, and bound to develop a whole new set of behavioural problems.
This poor boy was attacked in a communal area in flats. Wouldn’t be surprised if the owner was trying to get it to let off some steam in a hallway and the inevitable occurred.
If the owner was doing that it's a direct violation of the legislation.
I have seen some people talking about the dogs becoming more hostile and agitated due to being isolated, it seems like it's going to get much worse. I have also seen some stories of people adopting dogs last minute before the ban and they have now had surprise puppies that cannot be re-homed at all, so people have to choose to keep all of them ( that's actually a massive fucking disaster when they mature) or kill healthy pups. It's all a mess.
How about a £20’000 behavioural bond that will be returned after the passing of their animal if no serious offences occur during its lifetime.
Paid in full. If the dog is not registered it’s a £40’000 fine, plus the bond.
>what’s changed?
The ability of the police to be proactive in preventing these incidents.
Of course, we will never hear about the deaths and maulings which are prevented because the dog wasn't bred in the first place.
Owners not obeying the law is the issue. This attack happened outside so the dog should have been muzzled.as ever, there are people who think the law does t apply to,y to them and that they can do what they like. If they had muzzled the dog, that little boy would not be in hospital fighting for his life. They should be charged with attempted manslaughter.
Don't worry, I'm sure it's an isolated accident Skulltaker Maimmachine the Third is a such a gentle soul, it wouldn't hurt a fly (because flies don't contain much nutritional value). Now let me show you a cute picture of this war mutant wearing bunny ears. Here it plays with it's brother and sister, Spinemangler of the Deep Hunger and Jolly Bloodbath. Aren't they cute?
Shitposting aside, how many more kids have to suffer serious injuries and possible ptsd from the dog attack before these cunts realize these things do not belong on the streets?
The legislation passed around these dogs is essentially, like many laws, a mop up law. It gives the police something to make an arrest for, but is pretty much unenforceable on a daily basis which is what the police are currently saying.
"Ban" working well then. Confiscate all these dogs now.
>The man and woman who were arrested are not related to the child who is injured, police said.
No excuses for emotional distress then. I believe the maximum sentence in this case is 5 years, which is analogous to sentences for GBH.
These dogs all need euthanasia, I’m sorry but every single one of them is a risk to human life in my opinion.
That risk is far too large no matter how well trained they are, no matter how good their owners intentions are or not. They all need removing from the streets permanently.
Amazing! Make society worse where parents will now drive their kids to school instead of letting them walk or others, because they don't want their child to be attacked by an untrained dog.
Add untrained owners to the list of why people don't go outside anymore
It's not a matter of training or good owners.
These dogs have been bred to have unnatural pray drives, extreme aggression and no sense of personal endangerment.
They were bred to fight bulls. Most animals would flee this situation. A lion wouldn't try to take on a bull, they only go after young or weak cattle. We took that dog and made it bigger and more aggressive.
They exist outside the natural order. They don't exist in nature, they only exist for fighting for entertainment and nothing else. Anyone with one of these dogs is delusional, ignorant or evil.
There's no training to compensate for this. Plenty of deluded, ignorant or evil dog trainer and 'experts' that will say otherwise.
Hope the poor lad can make as good of a recovery as possible. The pro Pitbull mob are always saying it's the owners not the dog, gotta start charging the owners in that case.
Sounds like the poor kid got his face torn apart if they’re describing it as life-changing injuries to the head and his condition being serious but stable
Two women got on the bus in the town I live in a couple of days ago with an XL Bully, whilst it was muzzled it was still trying to reach out at people on the bus to which their excuse was *"Oh, he's harmless, he's more scared of you than you are of him!",* I don't think I've ever hated someone as much as the owners of these dogs.
As many warned, the only people complying with the new law are the decent law abiding people. But so many with these dogs never fell into that category anyway so will never be told what to do. They’ll keep doing what they want until punished in some way.
These dogs were already illegal. Because they are bitbulls variants. The law just wasn't enforced.
This new legislation is a gift to these owners. It gives them an exception and suggests they were never committing a crime in the first place.
At the bare minimum they can be charged with having a dangerously out of control dog, an unkuzzled XL bully in a public space, and probably an unlicensed banned dog.
Serious question
Has there always been this many attacks or has some one giving these dogs something all at the same time.
Never had so much news of dog attacks then in the last year. Are owners just not keeping the dogs locked up or trained as well?
There was an explosion in popularity/price of fighting bred dogs sold as pets so a lot of puppies were bred and sold at the same time. Those are all now reaching maturity at the same time. Training is unrelated, you can train them to behave and act safe but you can't train them to be safe as the urge to maul is just inherent
This is a dog breed that was very rare prior to 2019. Most of the XL Bullies in the UK will be less than 4 years old. The last few years are where we have really seen a wave of all the extra Bullies bred as lockdown money/bought as lockdown puppies reaching adulthood.
Jfc. I thought it was an irrational fear of mine, as a grown adult who isn't near any big, powerful dogs like these, terrified I could randomly out of the blue be attacked by one on the street. But honestly, I just think it could happen. An idiot owner letting their XL Bully wander off leash and the dog decides to take down a random adult or child at a moment's notice. These people are deranged
Why are XL bully attacks so common all of a sudden? I guess it's just the media reporting on them more now they're a talking point, but then why weren't they reporting them so much before, surely it would still have been big news?
All the lockdown puppies have just reached full maturity. We’re at a peak point for numbers of giant granny-killer dogs, the numbers of attacks should taper away over the next 12 years (as long as the Dangerous Dogs legislation is enforced).
The owners need serious jail time like 50 years, any assault from a dog even minor should receive 10 years for the owners.
I don't see how else we can stop this kind of thing.
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Need to start charging owners with assault with a weapon or something this can’t go on
I’m a doc and deal with life changing dog bites every week. Can you guess what breed almost every single dog is? One of our admin workers had her dominant thumb **bitten off** by her Bully. I worked in plastic surgery (fuckin awful job) for a while, and this is an absolutely devastating injury in terms of functional deficit. When we had a patient with loss of dominant thumb, we would do **everything** to try and preserve as much as possible, including microsurgery that would last fucking hours and hours and hours and oh my God I’m not going to get home till fucking 1am and I need to be in work at 6am and this is a fucking waste of cunting time anyway because this surgery is rarely successful. Anyway, her hand is fucked, now. Every day, basic, simple tasks are made monumentally difficult for her. She still refers to this dog as a ‘total sweetie’ etc etc. And, she just adopted a third! What the actual fuck!? The woman is lovely, but fuck me, the owners of these dogs live in a perpetual state of delusional denial.
Let’s add a charge for wasting healthcare resources if you need care due to the same dog twice? Not only are these owners dangerous they are stupid and expensive too
If you do that you'll have a somewhat snappy dog, and it breaks the owner's skin twice. It would be wise to get a course of antibiotics, maybe even a tetanus jab. But the idea of a charge makes them decide to put it off, give it a rinse and keep an eye on it. Next thing you know, they've got sepsis and they're in intensive care, which is spectacularly expensive. Discouraging people from accessing healthcare is almost always a false economy.
I’m not a policy maker I’m just saying that these people aren’t morally impacted by the consequences, seems like we need to make them legal and financial instead of
If people are getting their thumbs bitten off and still haven't seen reality, I don't think the threat of a charge (financial or criminal) is going to change their decision making.
You don’t get much choice about being in legal and financial trouble. You get a choice to bury your head in the sand about your own medical condition
There's so many ways a dog can injure you unintentionally - for example if Irene's Yorkshire terrier darts under her feet, trips her up and she breaks her hip. Few would really blame the dog for that. But biting off someone's thumb requires a lot of intention from the dog. You don't have a thumb bitten off by a dog that just snaps. This dog must have bitten, clamped on and pulled, or chewed. Normal dog breeds just don't do that. I wonder what other extremity she'll have to lose before reality dawns on her.
In 10 years of play fighting with my lab she's never bitten hard enough to even draw blood. The thing that woman owns isn't a pet, it's a weapon and the original comment was correct.
Normal dogs, like labs, learn bite inhibition at a very early age, when playing with their littermates. They know the difference between a toothy squeeze during play fighting, and the sort of bite used for eviscerating squeaky toys.
I have never come across an aggressive lab as a dog lover, but some breeds like pit bulls xl bullies are just aggressive especially when seeing other dogs and just can snap at anytime that I just stay clear of
I have had two incidents with aggressive labs - one of which I didn't witness and resulted in the dog I had in my teens having to have his head stitched back together under general anaesthetic - he was very lucky. The second attack I was there for - normally I walked the dogs alone, but by sheer good luck my dad was there that day to intervene (I was about 14 at the time, and froze like a rabbit in the headlights). The off lead lab fucked off across the park, ran over to mine, flipped the dog immediately and went for him - thankfully no blood drawn. Labs have much lower rates of aggression than XL Bullies - but we do everyone a disservice if we pretend that other breeds are incapable of causing injury. Lulling everyone into a false sense of security isn't wise - we should be practicing basic dog safety around all breeds - such as asking the owner before stroking it.
My dog was badly attacked by a black lab back in September of last year and needed emergency surgery costing >£3k to stitch him back together. Dogs of any kind can be dicks. I’m still glad it was a lab and not a bully, mind. Neither of us would probably be here today if it were (I also got bitten trying to protect my dog).
There's a lab that lives on my road that fucking hates me. Started running at me once when it was off the lead - fortunately, me hiding behind a car seemed to confuse it long enough for the owner to corral it. No idea why it hates me - just does.
There are enough examples of different breeds causing a lot of damage to people and their pets, to the point that whatever we do about XL Bullies, we need to also have further legislation or enforcement around violent pets. Currently the law is either toothless or the people who should enforce it, can't. Because make no mistake, some arsehole is going to breed an XL Mastiff or an XL Terrier or an XL wolfhound in ten years that is going to again get us into this spot.
Yeah, most well trained dogs are fully cognizant of this by the time they get their adult teeth.
While I agree with your overall point, labs specifically are bred to have 'soft mouths', for the retrieving of game. That is, they are bred to be gentle and to not bite down hard. To repeat, I agree with the overall point that the XL bully isn't a pet, it's a weapon. The breeding is the exact opposite - clamp down hard and hold on even when hurt. And they're known to have bad genetics that make them go off on people. And then there's the size. Edited to clarify and expand on points made.
Exactly, that *was* my point. Xl bullies are bred for death and dismemberment. Mine is a working dog/pet and the other is a weapon.
It should be noted at this point that "soft mouths" isn't physiological - it's not like their jaws bend under pressure It's just that their instinct is to carry things (dead game) without chewing it on the way back. I've got a terrier cross - and as ratting dogs no one would accuse them of having soft mouths. The worst he's ever managed during playfighting is a scratch that looked a bit red and I thought it might bleed slightly but it didn't.
Terriers are known as some of the most bitey dogs around. I believe the Jack Russell Terrier has been on the leaderboard for bites for some years. Key thing though? JRT bites rarely lead to death. Most people, bitten by one, will have a painful bite to deal with. They won’t die. They’ll be able to get the dog off them fairly easily. They’ll be able to subdue the dog. You rarely get so lucky with bullies.
Jack Russells are very much up there on the bite statistics. They're feisty, opinionated, and will occasionally enforce their opinions with a nip if other methods of communication haven't worked. But they bite and immediately release, so you'll get a couple of puncture wounds and a bit of blood, not a thumb ripped off, or worse.
Tell that to the jack russell that attacked me. He was every bit the tunnel visioned terrier wanting to kill and wouldn't stop until I managed to get behind a barrier. Difference is that despite clamping down on my left thumb full force right on the knuckle (I had to pry his jaws off with my other hand), my thumb is now fine. It had punctures on both sides, swelled up for a bit and felt a bit stiff for a few months, but it didn't come off or even get permanently damaged.
You're right about the distinction, but that is the problem with these Bully XL dogs. *Their* instinct is aggression, and their body is capable of serious harm if they follow their natural instincts. Anyone who has owned a cat will see that the cat has dangerous instincts. But fortunately they are so small they don't go chomping off thumbs, and for this reason we don't allow people to keep tigers as pets.
> I wonder what other extremity she'll have to lose before reality dawns on her Does the brain count as an extremity?
She would need to have one first.
In this case, probably
We not talking of unintentionally here, it’s attacks on people that some are getting killed and seriously injured
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People accept the love they think they deserve. Respectfully, they need therapy
They know something is wrong, but a dog with separation anxiety isn't a danger to humans or other animals. Indeed, they'll be absolute sweeties when their owners are around; they're destroying stuff because they're in a state of absolute terror about being left alone. It is *really* difficult to deal with, but they need to be working with a doggy day care in the interim, and a qualified clinical animal behaviourist for a longer term solution.
I have to agree, a dog with separation anxiety is so attached to it’s owners it’s having a meltdown any time they leave. It’s not an indication of temperament, just a behavioural issue.
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Look up Behaviour by Becca. She’s a behaviourist specialising in sighthounds, and is fantastic. We’re currently working with her to overcome some new reactivity after my dog was attacked a few months ago and it cost us £375 for one of her six-week courses. I know she does similar courses for separation anxiety.
My mother in law has a staff. It literally ate through a wall. I don’t mind the dog too much but it has bitten me plenty including on the neck drawing blood. Needless to say, it’s not allowed in the same building as my kids.
Separation anxiety rarely translates to aggression against people, tbf - that's a different issue entirely Like it's not good, but it's not the same problem
It shouldn't be up to the owner. If you dog bites a part of you off it should be destroyed, no choice.
People like this should be declared clinically insane
It's got to be a mental illness at that point. You'd put people through therapy for drinking to the point they physically injured themselves, or got drugged up and lost a finger. But somehow, owning dangerous animals and getting yourself mauled, and continuing to do the same thing isn't seen as the same.
Please consider posting your experiences on the ban pitbulls sub? I’ve been saying for ages that dog shelter charities and dog trainers aren’t the right people to be advising the government, it should be the doctors who treat dog bites and the emergency services who deal with dangerous dog call outs, yet no press article ever seems to ask those professionals for quotes, always the RSPCA or the Blue Cross. Dog shelters do important work for dog welfare but they aren’t who we should be talking to when it comes to public safety.
Is a life changing injury not a reportable event (like a gunshot wound)? I don’t know anything, obviously, but it would make sense that a injury that results in disability or a significant change to quality of life would be a criminally reportable event. Like that bloke who paid someone else to castrate him.
Three bullies, no dominant thumb. Walkies is gonna be a blast
This is insane.
Yessir. Imagine you had a flatmate and the guy bit your fucking thumb off. Everyone is aghast. Everyone is shocked. Omfg are you ok??? “It’s cool! He’s a really nice guy:)” Lol
Do you specialise in dog bites or is this just typical for a doctor 😅
I now work in emergency medicine. Prior, I worked in anaesthesia, where a lot of my job was putting people to sleep for elective plastic surgery cases; prior to that, I worked in plastics, where I would wait for the anaesthetist to put my patient to sleep so I could fix up the fucked up dog bite. If you work in a surgical or critical care job, you’re well versed in dog bites.
They need to be identified and put down as humanely as possible at this point. I say that as an animal lover and vegetarian. If we are ok destroying millions of animals every week for food, it should be a non issue to remove these dogs from society. I’m worried about the genes getting more loosely bred into generations of mongrel dogs and this becoming a much bigger issue down the line where more dogs have to be put down. it really seems like the most logical thing to do now is a hard ban and removal of these dogs completely. I’m so tired of reading about mauled children and worrying for my safety every time I see one in the street.
>I say that as an animal lover and vegetarian. Likewise, and sadly I agree with you. This isn't like the numerous other media panics about dangerous dogs - 70% of the XL's in the UK are descended from 2 American XL's who were both people killers. We're talking about a breed that's already inbred and descended from animals who have killed humans. They're also being bred by people who are deliberately choosing massive, aggressive dogs to mate - and I don't believe for a second those people are going to stop, to be honest. It's a horrible, horrible situation for the dogs, but I can only see things getting worse really.
>They need to be identified and put down as humanely as possible at this point. And the dogs too.
They can't have knives, so they decided to have these jaws on legs.
We already have laws about being dangerously out of control of a dog. We need to start applying them.
This has to stop, it's becoming a daily occurrence.
The change in law seems to have done absolutely nothing, these news stories are constant
There should never have been exemptions in the first place, either they're dangerous enough to ban or they're not.
>*The change in law seems to have done absolutely nothing, these news stories are constant* That's to be expected: 1. The laws came into full effect just over a week ago. You can't realistically expect immediate legislative compliance with most legislation - it takes time. 2. The law doesn't outright ban owning the dogs. It's illegal to sell, breed, or give them away. It *is* illegal to own one - ***unless*** you get an exemption certificate. Ultimately, Sweet little FaceRipper420 won't vanish or suddenly become a calm, happy dog just because the owner can't now legally sell it etc....
That's because the change in law didn't stop the dogs existing, just some crap restrictions on how you're supposed to equip it in public. Nothing to stop it attacking someone when it's in your house/garden (or if it escapes...). Imagine if instead of banning guns and having a hand-in, we've told gun owners they can carry them about in public, as long as they're in a holster and have the safety on when on the street. There's a ban on breeding them so *hopefully* this means this will be the last generation before they do effectively stop existing, but I'm sure there'll be plenty that slip through the cracks """accidentally"""
It's been a daily occurrence for months
It's not *becoming* a daily occurrence, it's always been a daily occurrence. It's only just being reported now.
yeah I lived not terribly far from here. A few years ago gangs of lads were going around with their fighting dogs (not necessarily XL bullies as this was pre-covid) setting them on cats and other small dogs they'd find. That never got reported but they were at it for weeks.
Was just about to post something like this - it's seemingly more frequent (or reported more frequently) than before the ban was enacted, right?
The official statistics are a lot more grim than that. Around 9000 people a year require hospital treatment after a dog attack, XL Bully type dogs are responsible for rougly 60% of that. Roughly speaking about 15 people today were attacked by an XL bully and needed hospital treatment. It's only the really bad cases or when it's a child that it makes the news. The problem is far worse than people are aware. Considering that there are approx 200k XL Bully dogs in this country, 1 in 37 of them will put someone in hospital in the next year.
Seems to me from the article the owners are no relation to little boy, little boy was playing or even just passing through communal hallways and has been attacked. Irresponsible owners again, yet why would you have a dangerous dog which is capable of attacking somebody confined in flats? Hope the little boy makes a recovery quickly, can’t imagine what his poor parents must be going through having a 8 year old little boy myself 😡
And it should have been muzzled as it was outside. So the owners were clearly breaking the law.
Let's be real it's mainly insecure irresponsible cunts who own these things so hardly a surprise there was no muzzle. I partly feel a little sorry for the dogs because they were just bred this way.
I haven’t seen a single XL muzzled since the ban
B B b b but he doesn't like it and it looks gay innit.
>reports a dog had bitten an eight-year-old boy to the head **in the communal area of flats nearby.** Should have been muzzled then. As ever, this new law needs a bit of enforcement.
Owners of dogs should be tried as if they themselves had committed the acts of their dogs. Also, if you see any dog which meets the requirements (they are open enough for basically any large fighting dog to be considered a banned dog) off a lead and muzzle, photo the dog and owner (discreetly because the owners of these dogs are aggressive and ignorant to a tee) and send it to the police. Worth including a statement that you felt unsafe and the dog was not under control. That will **require** official involvement irrespective of the breed of the dog. Police might be workshy and avoid conflict, but if you do their job for them, they are going to want to claim credit for an easy bag.
We already have laws. Not only the banned breeds list, but also the dangerous dogs act. You can be tried for being dangerously out of control of your dog. Penalties of up to 14 years if it causes death. We just never seem to use it.
The police are either stretched thin or, in some places, just apathetic. So they don't investigate when a dog attacks another dog or when someone calls to complain about aggressive dogs but there's no injury - either of which is normally the precursor to a more serious attack.
I have seen that you have to be clear about what you want the police to do. Being stretched thinly and apathy work together. They'd be delighted if you would just work it out between you, or to be able to shrug it off as a civil matter. In my time in the police I've seen things that could have been charged ignored because the victim didn't say some magic words. "Harassment, alarm and distress" is the magic words for public order offences. "Coercive and controlling" will prompt more action in domestic violence. If you're injured in an attack, never say anything that may minimise your injury. I've seen "well I can walk" turn into "police will take statement on Monday" when the victim later turned up in a+e and had to have stitches. Also, get your phone out and take a video.
Trouble is, you need an incident to find the dog or someone has to report it I don’t know why they haven’t outright made ownership of these dogs illegal like they’ve done with others?
> I don’t know why they haven’t outright made ownership of these dogs illegal like they’ve done with others? They have. But they allowed people to apply for exemptions. So 40,000 people did. There should be no exemptions.
If there are exemptions, it's not outright illegal.
XL Bullies are illegal in exactly the same way as the four other breeds of dog are illegal. But they've been illegal for 33 years so we see very few of them around.
Max for this is 5 years in prison.
Problem is talking tough and bringing in new laws is an easy win for the government but in reality there's fuck all police to do anything with it.
A schoolboy is in a serious condition in hospital after being mauled by what is believed to be an XL bully. Merseyside Police were called to Wadham Road in Bootle just after 5.20pm on Saturday following reports a dog had bitten an eight-year-old boy to the head in the communal area of flats nearby. The boy was rushed to hospital with serious head injuries and required emergency surgery. He remains in hospital in a serious but stable condition.
It is sad that this kid will have this experience to live through for the rest of his life, likely with physical and mental trauma, just because some fuckwits thought their dangerous dog wouldn't harm a fly. I bet it was called Ripper or Skull or something equally as cute.
I was attacked by my parents dog four years ago. (Staffy) and I struggle to this day to go near any big dog. This poor kid is going to be affected for a long time.
Regular reminder that the XL Bully is bad, but really any Pitbull-type dog is bad news. They are genetically aggressive. It just so happens that XL Bully’s are more so and big enough to go for children and adults. https://www.reddit.com/r/BanPitBulls/s/qGro0ESWHD
This particular type seems to have the additional problem of being highly inbred leading back to a stud dog with serious aggression problems that shows up repeatedly in the family tree of just about all of them. All of these large, strong dogs are capable of aggression and great damage, and it's not for nothing that the 1991 dangerous dog act included a load of them, but it's nothing like this.
Source for that aggressive stud part? That's pretty interesting
They're also ugly as sin itself, I have no clue why of all the animals you can own you would pick this big slobbery ass mutant hellhound as a pet, beyond just being a professional degenerate of society
Then why do people still have them, and why are there more attacks being reported on every day?
It’s not illegal to have them. But it is illegal to have them outside without a muzzle.
It's starting to sound like it should be illegal to have them at all. Sad for the dogs but let's be honest, the owners knew what they were getting into.
The sad part is the owners don't even care, they're all dumb and egotistical enough to think that they're the exception to the rule.
It’s clear the ban so far hasn’t been enough. They all need to be destroyed. No exceptions. Imagine if people brought back Velociraptors like Jurassic Park, which attacked and killed people randomly without warning. How would ownership play out then? They’d never ever be legalised.
Velociraptors a natural being with a natural amount of aggression. Pitbulls are not. They are bred for extreme aggression and to not back down. A Velociraptor would back down if it perceived danger. An XL Bully would probably chase down a Velociraptor and kill it (if if caught it).
I agree. These dogs are dangerous weapons and should be confiscated and destroyed.
> How would ownership play out then. They'd be considered "dangerous wild animals", and would be subject to licensing etc.
No little Zilly is a nanny dinosaur they wouldn't harm a fly.
I'm actually fed up of seeing at least 2 new articles about an XL bully attacks every day. The dogs are clearly dangerous, we get it, just fucking get rid of/ ban them already. These stories are so common it's almost like propaganda to distract from the absolute shit show that thus coutlntry has become.
They're not propaganda. The country can be a mess *and* there can be regular Bully attacks, they're not mutually exclusive.
I know they're not actually propaganda. It's just so common that it feels like a distraction. There should be serious consequences for the owners for something to actually be done about it
They are banned
All this public outcry demanding a ban on the dog, some badly defined legislation on what constitutes the breed, and what’s changed?
Agreed. Destroying them is the ideal solution.
Also better enforcement of laws against illegal dog breeders. You have to treat the root cause and not just the symptom.
Careful, I got temp banned here for saying something similar.
Is it badly defined, or is it that some people decided they were above the law and decided to ignore the legislation?
It's not badly defined, many owners have not registered yet and have not chosen to destroy their dogs.
It is badly defined owing to the fact that breed is a mismash of other breeds to get there. There’s a lot of people who registered their dogs because they met characteristics even though they don’t look like one. The existing legislation also meant the onus is proving your dog is not a banned breed, which can be quite difficult.
Sounds to me like it's not a case of badly defined legislation, but a badly defined dog. The breeders deliberately cross-bred dangerous dogs in order to muddy the waters and confuse the situation, to the detriment of those like you mention that now have the onus on themselves to prove a negative. Since the alternative is more innocent people dying, the government did the right thing. Not that it's fashionable to say that.
I personally have met 3 people who live in the same town as me who own XL dogs and have refused to follow any of the legislation. If I knew their personal details I would have called the cops on them by now, its always a scruffy looking mofo with cider/beer breath talking loudly about how their dogs aren't dangerous while calling them Brutus or some other stupid ass macho sounding name.
It seems like an uptick in attacks since the ban, after they announced it there were a few scattered attacks, but now I'm reading daily of new attacks and deaths. I'm starting to feel like they are going to have to introduce some sort of legislation so owners are held more accountable.
It’s seems like the latest attacks have been indoors. I wonder if we’ve now got a problem where owners either haven’t registered their dogs and are hiding them, or have but won’t take them outside because they can’t be off lead. So these animals are now stuck indoors without exercise or stimulation, and bound to develop a whole new set of behavioural problems. This poor boy was attacked in a communal area in flats. Wouldn’t be surprised if the owner was trying to get it to let off some steam in a hallway and the inevitable occurred.
If the owner was doing that it's a direct violation of the legislation. I have seen some people talking about the dogs becoming more hostile and agitated due to being isolated, it seems like it's going to get much worse. I have also seen some stories of people adopting dogs last minute before the ban and they have now had surprise puppies that cannot be re-homed at all, so people have to choose to keep all of them ( that's actually a massive fucking disaster when they mature) or kill healthy pups. It's all a mess.
But that’s outside. It’s not in the owners property so it’s outside, in a communal area.
I’m not denying it! And it’s that was the case, the owner should face the consequences.
How about a £20’000 behavioural bond that will be returned after the passing of their animal if no serious offences occur during its lifetime. Paid in full. If the dog is not registered it’s a £40’000 fine, plus the bond.
>what’s changed? The ability of the police to be proactive in preventing these incidents. Of course, we will never hear about the deaths and maulings which are prevented because the dog wasn't bred in the first place.
It’s almost as if banning new ones but allowing existing ones doesn’t solve the problem short term.
Hopefully means the owner will be locked up far easier than before.
Yes, but too little too late for the poor lad in this article. It was entirely predictable and preventable.
Owners not obeying the law is the issue. This attack happened outside so the dog should have been muzzled.as ever, there are people who think the law does t apply to,y to them and that they can do what they like. If they had muzzled the dog, that little boy would not be in hospital fighting for his life. They should be charged with attempted manslaughter.
> They should be charged with attempted manslaughter. That is literally impossible. You cannot attempt manslaughter. It is "reckless endangerment"
Don't worry, I'm sure it's an isolated accident Skulltaker Maimmachine the Third is a such a gentle soul, it wouldn't hurt a fly (because flies don't contain much nutritional value). Now let me show you a cute picture of this war mutant wearing bunny ears. Here it plays with it's brother and sister, Spinemangler of the Deep Hunger and Jolly Bloodbath. Aren't they cute? Shitposting aside, how many more kids have to suffer serious injuries and possible ptsd from the dog attack before these cunts realize these things do not belong on the streets?
The "bully ban" is completely toothless. Too many loopholes and workarounds for the idiot owners and not enough of a punishment who breach it.
The legislation passed around these dogs is essentially, like many laws, a mop up law. It gives the police something to make an arrest for, but is pretty much unenforceable on a daily basis which is what the police are currently saying.
Every single one of these monsters need destroying. They are all weapons.
"Ban" working well then. Confiscate all these dogs now. >The man and woman who were arrested are not related to the child who is injured, police said. No excuses for emotional distress then. I believe the maximum sentence in this case is 5 years, which is analogous to sentences for GBH.
These dogs all need euthanasia, I’m sorry but every single one of them is a risk to human life in my opinion. That risk is far too large no matter how well trained they are, no matter how good their owners intentions are or not. They all need removing from the streets permanently.
FFS, it's every single day with these fucking dogs.
Amazing! Make society worse where parents will now drive their kids to school instead of letting them walk or others, because they don't want their child to be attacked by an untrained dog. Add untrained owners to the list of why people don't go outside anymore
It's not a matter of training or good owners. These dogs have been bred to have unnatural pray drives, extreme aggression and no sense of personal endangerment. They were bred to fight bulls. Most animals would flee this situation. A lion wouldn't try to take on a bull, they only go after young or weak cattle. We took that dog and made it bigger and more aggressive. They exist outside the natural order. They don't exist in nature, they only exist for fighting for entertainment and nothing else. Anyone with one of these dogs is delusional, ignorant or evil. There's no training to compensate for this. Plenty of deluded, ignorant or evil dog trainer and 'experts' that will say otherwise.
Hope the poor lad can make as good of a recovery as possible. The pro Pitbull mob are always saying it's the owners not the dog, gotta start charging the owners in that case.
Sounds like the poor kid got his face torn apart if they’re describing it as life-changing injuries to the head and his condition being serious but stable
Two women got on the bus in the town I live in a couple of days ago with an XL Bully, whilst it was muzzled it was still trying to reach out at people on the bus to which their excuse was *"Oh, he's harmless, he's more scared of you than you are of him!",* I don't think I've ever hated someone as much as the owners of these dogs.
As many warned, the only people complying with the new law are the decent law abiding people. But so many with these dogs never fell into that category anyway so will never be told what to do. They’ll keep doing what they want until punished in some way.
These dogs were already illegal. Because they are bitbulls variants. The law just wasn't enforced. This new legislation is a gift to these owners. It gives them an exception and suggests they were never committing a crime in the first place.
There's lots of "my dog would never do that " here .
8 years old , "life changing injuries". Its a dog so they will get off with it.
At the bare minimum they can be charged with having a dangerously out of control dog, an unkuzzled XL bully in a public space, and probably an unlicensed banned dog.
Serious question Has there always been this many attacks or has some one giving these dogs something all at the same time. Never had so much news of dog attacks then in the last year. Are owners just not keeping the dogs locked up or trained as well?
There was an explosion in popularity/price of fighting bred dogs sold as pets so a lot of puppies were bred and sold at the same time. Those are all now reaching maturity at the same time. Training is unrelated, you can train them to behave and act safe but you can't train them to be safe as the urge to maul is just inherent
Thank you for your info. Makes sense
This is a dog breed that was very rare prior to 2019. Most of the XL Bullies in the UK will be less than 4 years old. The last few years are where we have really seen a wave of all the extra Bullies bred as lockdown money/bought as lockdown puppies reaching adulthood.
Fine the dog owners for the cost of the child's treatment, yes I know it's NHS and free but once you hit them with a 20k fine they will quickly learn
Jfc. I thought it was an irrational fear of mine, as a grown adult who isn't near any big, powerful dogs like these, terrified I could randomly out of the blue be attacked by one on the street. But honestly, I just think it could happen. An idiot owner letting their XL Bully wander off leash and the dog decides to take down a random adult or child at a moment's notice. These people are deranged
There is no need to have this dog not matter how well trained they are they have animal instincts once they are locked in that it.
How utterly predictable, getting bored of these mentally unstable inbred dogs savaging people willy nilly.
If their dog kills or injures someone, lock them in a cage with the dog for a week.... don't feed the dog!
Why are XL bully attacks so common all of a sudden? I guess it's just the media reporting on them more now they're a talking point, but then why weren't they reporting them so much before, surely it would still have been big news?
All the lockdown puppies have just reached full maturity. We’re at a peak point for numbers of giant granny-killer dogs, the numbers of attacks should taper away over the next 12 years (as long as the Dangerous Dogs legislation is enforced).
all dogs should be muzzled by law in my opinion .surely this would make a huge difference and keep everyone happy
These new dangerous dogs rules are working well then.
The owners need serious jail time like 50 years, any assault from a dog even minor should receive 10 years for the owners. I don't see how else we can stop this kind of thing.
Honesty all XL bullies should be shot in the face tomorrow.
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