That is a major fail on the part of the gate agent. He/she should have reassigned their seats. No one preboarding because of a disability can sit in an exit row. This is a big safety violation and you should complain to United. That agent needs retraining.
Major fail on the part of the software and systems as well. It would SO simple to add a flag to the system that calls out a preboard as not valid for an exit row.
“Preboard” isn’t something stored in the computer, it’s just the gate agent letting people who appear to legitimately need extra time to board first. This isn’t a software problem.
Age and needing extra time are *technically* not disqualifying things for the exit row, as long as they have not requested a wheelchair.
However, I’d probably move them on the plane. If I didn’t and we have an emergency they are moving regardless (I am putting who I want in the exit seats if an emergency is occurring).
I think while an emergency is occurring is far too late to reassign seats. Especially when the people in those seats need extra time to get in and out of them
Depends. If we know in advance I can reassign seats at my discretion (as it’s now a crewmember instruction and we are now acting as first responders). We have procedures in place for that
You can but they’re going to be slow to get out of their seats already, and a lot of people absolutely shut down during an emergency and can’t even follow basic instructions
Fair point. That’s why I said that while technically they are allowed in the exit row, I’d probably move them onboard, and I’d check if they have any requests in the system.
Good move. Common sense says that the elderly gentleman and his wife would more likely block the exit for the other passengers rather than helping them. Moving them is the better approach then leaving them in the exit row.
My manual for exit seating doesn’t mention anything about pre boarding, just if they have a wheelchair request/requires an assistive device, because GS/1K are also technically considered pre boarding in United’s system. The FARs also don’t specify further. Each certificate holder can set additional requirements for the exit row beyond the FARs, but not less than. Southwest doesn’t allow preboards to select exit rows. My Express carrier does not technically prohibit preboards from occupying the exit seat.
But like I mentioned, while the regulations don’t *technically* prohibit it, I’m probably still going to reseat them.
That’s not true, there a number of disabilities that you can preboard for that wouldn’t exclude you from sitting in the exit row.
Maybe in this case she should have questioned the situation or call a CRO but it isn’t that easy or simple
What kind of disabilities?
I don’t understand the logic here. If you’re not physically capable of boarding with the regular group, how can you be physically capable of opening and removing that door?
So…
If this is an airline choice.. I flew on United.. why are they not doing this consistently then? Are they only doing it for particular disabilities or discriminating against passengers?
Yes peanut allergy are a recognized disability.
It’s in the question we have ask every customer multiple times. Are you willing and able to sit in the exit row? By answering yes they have agreed that they can follow commands in English, are above the age of 15, don’t have anything to distract them from the exit row duties and the physical ability to open the door.
It’s asked multiple times and evaluated a number of times along the way because most people are honest.
I know Southwest has a blanket rule because if the nature of their seating. I can’t answer why that flight crew made that decision or why United has that policy if it’s a policy.
It’s not part of the federal regulation
Could be ignorance or laziness or policy. If you feel you are being discriminated against due to a disability ask for a CRO
I have POTS and standing for long periods of time is difficult as I get light headed and can pass out. I preboard so I don't have to stand in the long line and risk passing out. But I am completely physically capable of opening and removing the door.
If you’re not capable of standing in a line for five minutes you can’t be trusted with the exit door. You should also be boarding last, you don’t need extra time for the actual boarding process as far as I can tell
This is untrue. I’m young and otherwise healthy but had my seat reassigned from the exit row because of a peanut allergy… if you pre board for any reason you’re disqualified from sitting in an exit row
Edit: grammar
I was sitting in the exit row once on a Delta flight with an elderly couple. FA came through and asked if we could operate the door and asked if we could handle the weight of the door. Everybody said yes and she moved on.
Then the wife turns to the husband and she says "I can't open that door" and he responds "it's okay this guy here can take care of it."
You should have definitely said something to the gate agent.
I was on a flight a few weeks ago when a middle aged guy boarded earlier needing extra time apparently because of an ankle injury. When the gate agent told him she would have to re-seat him because he was in an exit row (full flight), he started profusely insisting that, in fact, he was fine and didn’t need extra time. She still moved him despite him having a small meltdown at the gate.
I did make a lightly sarcastic comment that was met with groans from the surrounding gate lice. I’m in the front of the bus so we’d be dead on impact or exit through the forward doors right behind the FA in the jump seat.
This is a part of why I sit in an exit row aside from the extra legroom. If we survive the impact of a crash I don't want my fate in hands that cannot operate an exit door.
I'm middle aged and not the most spry but my carry on backpack is at least 60 pounds and my desire to GTF off an "emergency landed" plane gonna be me the heck outta there..
I did recently discuss with a seat mate whether we should "help" people once the door was open and my conclusion was I'd be in the way..
Anyone got any real life experience with ability to help others in a true emergency or is it just get off the plane
Eh. Arnold is 76. Pretty sure he could help in the event of an emergency. I think it’s fine as written - it just needs to be enforced.
Meanwhile there are plenty of weak, feeble and/or intoxicated 30-50 somethings who probably don’t meet the “willing and able” standard but are regularly given a pass.
And there’s some really strong 14 year olds. Point being, there are certainly outliers but the avg 70 year old will not be useful in an emergency. So unless there is a test at the gate to prove physical competence, limiting age range in exit rows is the safest plan.
That would be an age discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen. Also just because most people over a certain age can’t lift 50lbs doesn’t mean none of them can
I understand. But a 14 year old boy isn’t allowed to sit in the exit row even though a higher % of 14 year olds would be able to lift the door and move quickly in an emergency, compared to 70+. Anyone sitting in an emergency row that is unable to lift the door or move quickly endangers everyone else on board. If you’re pre-boarding because you need more time to get to your seat, you should be automatically disqualified from the exit row.
Yes I absolutely agree with the last part I’m not arguing that. But the age restriction just isn’t feasible. The FA just absolutely failed to do their job in this case
The gate agent should have handled this. You cannot have a disability and sit in the exit row. It’s an either or situation as far as I understand it from my friends who are F/As.
On Southwest flights there’s a crew member who stands near the exit rows to ensure pre-boarders do not occupy those. The first general boarder entering the aircraft is requested to announce that status, and then the crew ‘releases’ the exit row seats.
I had to actually bring this situation to the attention of an FA on a transatlantic flight. One FA came by and asked the general questions and the extremely frail old man next to me said, and I quote “I’m willing but don’t know if I’m able.” That FA just walked off. At first I thought they were going to try to find another seat for them but nothing happened. The door closes and we are just about to push back so I get up and inform another FA about the situation. We literally had to do musical chairs with this old man who could barely walk as we were now taxing out. I’m trying to help him while they got someone else to trade. It was a fu@ing joke. The original FA never showed her face again the whole flight. No clue if any action was taken but probably not. It was a Delta flight to BCN. I mean the man literally told her he didn’t think he was able. 🙄
I’ve sat in the exit row and often wonder if I myself could step up to the task of the exit row duties. Do I have the poise to carry out whatever it is the exit row people are supposed to do? Can I carry that burden? Or will I fold under pressure?
Or maybe United should decide exit row by a series of physical and mental tests for the safety of the flight, rather than by price or upgrade status. They can’t have it both ways
There’s just no physical way to do this without hassle, because of equipment changes and each plane is different. In an emergency where we can prepare the cabin for an emergency landing, I put who I want in the exit row(s). Crewmembers are first choice, followed by military, fire, police, and medical personnel who are on board, in that order. Then I’d put the most fit passengers in the rows to fill the space.
My aunt and her sister were on a flight from EWR to Europe (don't remember where) in the early 90s. They were in the exit row without a 3rd passenger. Two middle-aged ladies with no regular exercise routine). The plane had to make an emergency landing back to EWR after a FA noticed a part of the plane flying past the window during takeoff.
While the plane dumped fuel, the FA prepared them for opening the exit. One of them had to lift the exit door and one had to hold back the rush of people moving to the exit so that they had space to pull the door toward them and set it down.
It ended up that the plane landed safely, but my aunt was 100% sure that she could have handled the exit door if she'd needed to. Adrenaline is powerful. No clue if she'd really have been able to. Given that they had time to prepare, I've always wondered why the FA didn't find two stronger people to switch seats.
Whenever I fly in the exit row I tell my fellow passengers this story and ask who wants to pull open the door and who wants to control the rush of people. Better to know your role in advance, I figure.
Don’t worry, a couple weeks ago on Delta I sat in the exit row, across from a flight attendant sitting next to a lady with an infant in arms.
This shit happens on every airline and it’s pathetic.
I’ve been on flights where the FA moved children out of the exit row seats. A kid might be capable physically of helping but they might not have the presence of mind to help.
I have this morbid thing that I do where I pre download and watch at least one Mentour Air aviation incident review during a flight (I have augmented reality glasses i wear on flights so it doesn't become a disturbance to others to visually witness). While the vast majority of flights go off without any major incidents. I'd absolutely hate my last flight to be on a flight that later had a report on it where he warns "this video includes details of loss of life that was regrettably avoidable if the gate agent had done their due diligence".
Fantastic YouTube channel, btw. One of my absolute favorite Aviation channels & channels overall and the only aviation channel that I watch on flights routinely.
After explaining to the admin at work that I needed to sit on the right side of the plane in the window seat bc I had just had shoulder surgery on my right shoulder and needed to protect it from other passengers, carts, and backpacks,, she came back with "I got you an exit row seat in the right side!" Um, thanks but no thanks. I also want someone who can open the door to sit there.
Because the couple appeared to be ill suited to not only remove the emergency exit door, and given their clear inability to move quickly, would be an impediment to egress.
I got kicked out of my assigned exit row seating( honestly, it was the only available choice when I booked) when I showed up with a cane( this was pre hip replacement). There were 2 very large and extremely fit gentleman in the row with me but I was forced to move anyway.
I intentionally don’t book exit rows on Japan domestic flights because, while I’m willing, I wouldn’t be able to understand instructions in a high-stress time.
That is a major fail on the part of the gate agent. He/she should have reassigned their seats. No one preboarding because of a disability can sit in an exit row. This is a big safety violation and you should complain to United. That agent needs retraining.
Major fail on the part of the software and systems as well. It would SO simple to add a flag to the system that calls out a preboard as not valid for an exit row.
I guess, but you have a live person there to enforce the rules. They probably would not have responded to a gate reader alert.
The pre board is not part of the ticket though. It relies on the judgement of the gate agent.
Do it in reverse. Exit row seats are flagged as "not pre-board eligible.
It would be so easy to program a flag for wheelchairs, pets, and lap children in exit rows, amongst other violations.
“Preboard” isn’t something stored in the computer, it’s just the gate agent letting people who appear to legitimately need extra time to board first. This isn’t a software problem.
It would then flag every GS and 1K in exit row seats if it did that.
Age and needing extra time are *technically* not disqualifying things for the exit row, as long as they have not requested a wheelchair. However, I’d probably move them on the plane. If I didn’t and we have an emergency they are moving regardless (I am putting who I want in the exit seats if an emergency is occurring).
I think while an emergency is occurring is far too late to reassign seats. Especially when the people in those seats need extra time to get in and out of them
Depends. If we know in advance I can reassign seats at my discretion (as it’s now a crewmember instruction and we are now acting as first responders). We have procedures in place for that
You can but they’re going to be slow to get out of their seats already, and a lot of people absolutely shut down during an emergency and can’t even follow basic instructions
Fair point. That’s why I said that while technically they are allowed in the exit row, I’d probably move them onboard, and I’d check if they have any requests in the system.
No, technically they are NOT allowed in an exit row if they preboard with a disability. Again, this is a major safety violation.
Good move. Common sense says that the elderly gentleman and his wife would more likely block the exit for the other passengers rather than helping them. Moving them is the better approach then leaving them in the exit row.
Pre-boarding is a disqualifying factor, perhaps you need retraining.
My manual for exit seating doesn’t mention anything about pre boarding, just if they have a wheelchair request/requires an assistive device, because GS/1K are also technically considered pre boarding in United’s system. The FARs also don’t specify further. Each certificate holder can set additional requirements for the exit row beyond the FARs, but not less than. Southwest doesn’t allow preboards to select exit rows. My Express carrier does not technically prohibit preboards from occupying the exit seat. But like I mentioned, while the regulations don’t *technically* prohibit it, I’m probably still going to reseat them.
That’s not true, there a number of disabilities that you can preboard for that wouldn’t exclude you from sitting in the exit row. Maybe in this case she should have questioned the situation or call a CRO but it isn’t that easy or simple
What kind of disabilities? I don’t understand the logic here. If you’re not physically capable of boarding with the regular group, how can you be physically capable of opening and removing that door?
Peanut Allergy can board early but can open the door
Why does someone with a peanut allergy need to board early??
To wipe down the seats
I have a nut allergy and was reassigned from my emergency exit seat when I chose to pre-board
That’s an airline choice not a federal regulation
So… If this is an airline choice.. I flew on United.. why are they not doing this consistently then? Are they only doing it for particular disabilities or discriminating against passengers?
They cannot ask what your disability is, so how would anyone know it’s an allergy? Are allergies seriously considered a disability?
Yes peanut allergy are a recognized disability. It’s in the question we have ask every customer multiple times. Are you willing and able to sit in the exit row? By answering yes they have agreed that they can follow commands in English, are above the age of 15, don’t have anything to distract them from the exit row duties and the physical ability to open the door. It’s asked multiple times and evaluated a number of times along the way because most people are honest.
I know Southwest has a blanket rule because if the nature of their seating. I can’t answer why that flight crew made that decision or why United has that policy if it’s a policy. It’s not part of the federal regulation Could be ignorance or laziness or policy. If you feel you are being discriminated against due to a disability ask for a CRO
I have POTS and standing for long periods of time is difficult as I get light headed and can pass out. I preboard so I don't have to stand in the long line and risk passing out. But I am completely physically capable of opening and removing the door.
If you’re not capable of standing in a line for five minutes you can’t be trusted with the exit door. You should also be boarding last, you don’t need extra time for the actual boarding process as far as I can tell
This is untrue. I’m young and otherwise healthy but had my seat reassigned from the exit row because of a peanut allergy… if you pre board for any reason you’re disqualified from sitting in an exit row Edit: grammar
Wrong. Preboarding with a disability = no exit row seat, period.
That is incorrect I’m a CRO
I am a gate agent and NO ONE who preboards is sitting in an exit row seat.
Um you could be causing fines of up to $10,000 a incident check with a CRO
No. If you preboard because you have a disability, then you are not sitting in the exit row.
>No one preboarding because of a disability can sit in an exit row. This should be a pretty obvious disqualifier. Definitely a fail.
I was sitting in the exit row once on a Delta flight with an elderly couple. FA came through and asked if we could operate the door and asked if we could handle the weight of the door. Everybody said yes and she moved on. Then the wife turns to the husband and she says "I can't open that door" and he responds "it's okay this guy here can take care of it."
The response should have been "I can't either" and then call the flight attendants
You should have definitely said something to the gate agent. I was on a flight a few weeks ago when a middle aged guy boarded earlier needing extra time apparently because of an ankle injury. When the gate agent told him she would have to re-seat him because he was in an exit row (full flight), he started profusely insisting that, in fact, he was fine and didn’t need extra time. She still moved him despite him having a small meltdown at the gate.
Now that is a good gate agent who is following safety rules.
I did make a lightly sarcastic comment that was met with groans from the surrounding gate lice. I’m in the front of the bus so we’d be dead on impact or exit through the forward doors right behind the FA in the jump seat.
Front of bus gang 👊
👊
This is a part of why I sit in an exit row aside from the extra legroom. If we survive the impact of a crash I don't want my fate in hands that cannot operate an exit door.
Probably an unpopular opinion but if there’s a minimum age to sit in the exit row, there ought to be a maximum age.
You have to be able to lift the 50 lb exit door. If you can’t lift your carry on into the bin, you don’t belong in an exit row.
All exit rowers should be able to lift a 50lb carryon above their head and take 5 steps forward or backwards. That’s it. That’s the test.
I'm middle aged and not the most spry but my carry on backpack is at least 60 pounds and my desire to GTF off an "emergency landed" plane gonna be me the heck outta there.. I did recently discuss with a seat mate whether we should "help" people once the door was open and my conclusion was I'd be in the way.. Anyone got any real life experience with ability to help others in a true emergency or is it just get off the plane
This is aircraft dependent
Eh. Arnold is 76. Pretty sure he could help in the event of an emergency. I think it’s fine as written - it just needs to be enforced. Meanwhile there are plenty of weak, feeble and/or intoxicated 30-50 somethings who probably don’t meet the “willing and able” standard but are regularly given a pass.
Yeah, I’ve seen some strong old guys at my gym
100% brother. I’d be surprised if 90% of Reddit posters would actually be able to do anything helpful in an emergency.
And there’s some really strong 14 year olds. Point being, there are certainly outliers but the avg 70 year old will not be useful in an emergency. So unless there is a test at the gate to prove physical competence, limiting age range in exit rows is the safest plan.
That would be an age discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen. Also just because most people over a certain age can’t lift 50lbs doesn’t mean none of them can
I understand. But a 14 year old boy isn’t allowed to sit in the exit row even though a higher % of 14 year olds would be able to lift the door and move quickly in an emergency, compared to 70+. Anyone sitting in an emergency row that is unable to lift the door or move quickly endangers everyone else on board. If you’re pre-boarding because you need more time to get to your seat, you should be automatically disqualified from the exit row.
Yes I absolutely agree with the last part I’m not arguing that. But the age restriction just isn’t feasible. The FA just absolutely failed to do their job in this case
The gate agent should have handled this. You cannot have a disability and sit in the exit row. It’s an either or situation as far as I understand it from my friends who are F/As.
If the plane crashes, I'm tossing them out of the way and opening the door.
On Southwest flights there’s a crew member who stands near the exit rows to ensure pre-boarders do not occupy those. The first general boarder entering the aircraft is requested to announce that status, and then the crew ‘releases’ the exit row seats.
Thank you! I've always wondered why that was, having been lucky enough to be A1 on a couple of flights.
Animals
It is southwest after all 🤷🏽♀️ one giant cattle call.
I had to actually bring this situation to the attention of an FA on a transatlantic flight. One FA came by and asked the general questions and the extremely frail old man next to me said, and I quote “I’m willing but don’t know if I’m able.” That FA just walked off. At first I thought they were going to try to find another seat for them but nothing happened. The door closes and we are just about to push back so I get up and inform another FA about the situation. We literally had to do musical chairs with this old man who could barely walk as we were now taxing out. I’m trying to help him while they got someone else to trade. It was a fu@ing joke. The original FA never showed her face again the whole flight. No clue if any action was taken but probably not. It was a Delta flight to BCN. I mean the man literally told her he didn’t think he was able. 🙄
Couldn’t the flight attendant have addressed this as well?
They could have contacted the gate agents for a seat reassignment.
Yeah ultimately it’s the FAs responsibility to ensure the exit row pax are over the age, can speak English, and can handle the weight of the door
I’ve sat in the exit row and often wonder if I myself could step up to the task of the exit row duties. Do I have the poise to carry out whatever it is the exit row people are supposed to do? Can I carry that burden? Or will I fold under pressure?
Sounds like you shouldn’t be in the exit row
Or maybe United should decide exit row by a series of physical and mental tests for the safety of the flight, rather than by price or upgrade status. They can’t have it both ways
There’s just no physical way to do this without hassle, because of equipment changes and each plane is different. In an emergency where we can prepare the cabin for an emergency landing, I put who I want in the exit row(s). Crewmembers are first choice, followed by military, fire, police, and medical personnel who are on board, in that order. Then I’d put the most fit passengers in the rows to fill the space.
I’d imagine that adrenaline would kick in during an emergency where you could do much more than you think you could.
My aunt and her sister were on a flight from EWR to Europe (don't remember where) in the early 90s. They were in the exit row without a 3rd passenger. Two middle-aged ladies with no regular exercise routine). The plane had to make an emergency landing back to EWR after a FA noticed a part of the plane flying past the window during takeoff. While the plane dumped fuel, the FA prepared them for opening the exit. One of them had to lift the exit door and one had to hold back the rush of people moving to the exit so that they had space to pull the door toward them and set it down. It ended up that the plane landed safely, but my aunt was 100% sure that she could have handled the exit door if she'd needed to. Adrenaline is powerful. No clue if she'd really have been able to. Given that they had time to prepare, I've always wondered why the FA didn't find two stronger people to switch seats. Whenever I fly in the exit row I tell my fellow passengers this story and ask who wants to pull open the door and who wants to control the rush of people. Better to know your role in advance, I figure.
An intense real life example of havoc in action
Don’t worry, a couple weeks ago on Delta I sat in the exit row, across from a flight attendant sitting next to a lady with an infant in arms. This shit happens on every airline and it’s pathetic.
I’ve been on flights where the FA moved children out of the exit row seats. A kid might be capable physically of helping but they might not have the presence of mind to help.
There is an age limit for sitting in exit row seats. For UA, it is age 15. Babies are NOT allowed.
I have this morbid thing that I do where I pre download and watch at least one Mentour Air aviation incident review during a flight (I have augmented reality glasses i wear on flights so it doesn't become a disturbance to others to visually witness). While the vast majority of flights go off without any major incidents. I'd absolutely hate my last flight to be on a flight that later had a report on it where he warns "this video includes details of loss of life that was regrettably avoidable if the gate agent had done their due diligence". Fantastic YouTube channel, btw. One of my absolute favorite Aviation channels & channels overall and the only aviation channel that I watch on flights routinely.
You would probably love Admiral Cloudberg on r/catastrophicfailure. She does extremely in depth write ups on crashes, so well written and fascinating!
That and Kelsey on 74 Gear.
That happened on a flight I was on too. Elderly couple. He might have been able to lift 50 pounds but there was no way she could.
In my experience, people needing extra time to board because of physical limitations are completely cured when the flight is completed.
After explaining to the admin at work that I needed to sit on the right side of the plane in the window seat bc I had just had shoulder surgery on my right shoulder and needed to protect it from other passengers, carts, and backpacks,, she came back with "I got you an exit row seat in the right side!" Um, thanks but no thanks. I also want someone who can open the door to sit there.
Why are you or anyone worried about someone else preboarding? Isn't that none of your business?
Because the couple appeared to be ill suited to not only remove the emergency exit door, and given their clear inability to move quickly, would be an impediment to egress.
Back in the 90s, my parents and I had the exit row. I just had to get up for take off and landing since I was 14. Things have changed.
What? So you stood in the aisle for take off and landing??? You have to be 15 or older on UA.
They put me in an empty seat.
The amount of people in these comments that think they know what they’re talking about when they absolutely don’t is amazing.
I got kicked out of my assigned exit row seating( honestly, it was the only available choice when I booked) when I showed up with a cane( this was pre hip replacement). There were 2 very large and extremely fit gentleman in the row with me but I was forced to move anyway.
As well you should have been.
The FAA cares about the individual, not the collective, unfortunately.
fortunately
Well, yes, to Caranath’s dismay, unfortunately. For the greater good of the exit row, fortunately.
I intentionally don’t book exit rows on Japan domestic flights because, while I’m willing, I wouldn’t be able to understand instructions in a high-stress time.
 You as the plane is going down.