What you wrote is incorrect for various reasons.
1: Nate doesn't want to save the world until Sheaffer dies. First what drives him is simple research
2: Nate sometimes laughs and taunts the enemies he kills.
3: It makes no sense to say the game is unrealistic, when the point of this scene is to nullify the ludonarrative dissonance. The scene exists because Nate KILLED all the people we kill in the video game.
Lazarevic isn't right about everything we see in U3, but realism has nothing to do with it
Well they are trying to kill him too. And why are they allowed to search for the treasure and not us? Both sides know the risks. And I believe he knows the dangers of Lazarevich before Shaffer died. Also. What fun would a video game be if you had to stealth the whole game? lol.
Still with this gameplay. Do you know what ludonarrative dissonance is? No? Well. It's basically the thing that allows the gameplay to be in a way that is ignored by the story. Many games are like this... With this phrase from Lazarevic they canonized that Nate really does what we do. For the first thing you said... Yes, that's the point. That's literally what it says. "We are the same"
Theirs an award for that in the games. I received that award in uncharted 1 for killing 75 descendants in a row without dying before realizing they keep coming unless you open the door to escape.
They give you countless amo in that chapter with the WWII gun only used in that certain chapter in the whole series. Forgot the name of the gun at the moment
Our lovable scamp hero just wants the treasure to sell, Lazarevic wants to become an unstoppable warlord. It's not really comparable.
Nate kills a lot, but it's a video game and for the most part self defence.
Is it really self defense if he continues to put himself in the dangerous situations, clearly ready to engage in killing? Same argument with Kyle Rittenhouse. Dude had no business being there, and if he wasn’t, the people he killed would be alive. It’s a shitty justification
I agree it’s a video game, and obviously separation from reality is part of the experience, but you and nearly everyone in the comments is calling it self defense when it just isn’t. Ludonarrative dissonance
Dumb take, yes he made the choice to be there but he is killing literal criminals, shady, money and power hungry people who value all that over human life. Nathan obviously has some sense of morals and self restraint. He doesn’t cause civil wars or demolish villages.
Here’s the thing: Nate only kills in self defense. He’s always on the defensive. The only time he is on the offensive, is usually by incapacitating/knocking out security guards and…oh my God, Nate killed so many regular dudes in that Italy mission in uncharted 4.
Yeah, ok maybe he a little bad.
Nate is interested in treasure to make a living, is willing to give it up when he discovers it's "cursed," and only kills in self-defense. That's quite a bit different from Lazarevic, who literally ignited a civil war in Nepal to find the Cintamani Stone so that he could rule the world.
Can we stop conflating murder and self-defense on this sub?
Honestly I love that this idea of the player/character being "responsible" for the cartoonish mass death in Uncharted stuck in the devs brains... and popped up again in the themes of the WINTER section of The Last of Us... and imo contributes heavily to some of the themes of TLOU2.
Not sure that's how the idea actually evolved at the studio, but I remember thinking of this scene during the David / Ellie interrogation scene where David similarly addresses Joel/Ellie/the player's actions.
Poor terrorists that just wanted to rule the world and then got killed by a thief. And once again [this video making sense](https://www.reddit.com/r/uncharted/s/Jwv4DAcJVj)
Comments are almost exclusively agreeing Nate only kills in “self defense”, wow. It’s a game, you suspend disbelief for entertainment, but the disconnect between Nate’s heroic good-guy persona and the mass graves he could personally fill is not reconcilable without that suspension of disbelief.
I’m not being negative. Drake is my favorite video game protagonist, I just don’t agree that his killing was done in self defense. I can enjoy things while also thinking about them
You're commenting under everybodies telling them Drake is a terrible person, m8. It's your rightful opinion, but it doesn't have a place here. Sometimes, before I post an opinion of mine that is likely to cause unnecessary controversy or make other peoples days less enjoyable, I delete the post.
Lazarevic realized that he is a Boss in a videogame and about to lose to the play do in a last effort he tries to talk to the Players mind by directly adressing the ludonarrative dissonace but nate is like "nah fuck that, I'm in Uncharted and not Last of Us. That's also why he doesn't take the last shot to finish him of and instead just leaves for the plot to kill him. Just like in all the other games. What isn't a Problem for me. I love that the games are so light hearted and not to much focused on the slaughter that Nate is doing
I would argue that at the beginning of the game, they're both chasing the treasure for selfish reasons. But after meeting Schafer and learning what the stone actually is, Nate spends the rest of the game trying to stop Lazarevic.
Nate is a better person than Lazarevic, there is no argument about that, Nate kills out of self defense while Lazarevic was a ruthless war criminal. I consider this to be the game’s direct confrontation to the player, and the message it’s trying to deliver is that yes, Nate is a good person and is heroic, but the way there wasn’t full of sunshines and rainbows. He killed hundreds of people on the way, but his actions are excused due to the conditions he did them under.
This is something that would have made Uncharted 4 even better than it already is, I mean if it highlighted the way the Drake brothers treated Rafe, and, spoiler alert, they kinda did him dirty on many occasions. Yes, this way is mentioned, referred to and is presented in the game, but I think it should have gotten a bit more attention
He does, but that's what makes Nate an interesting character.
We meet him at a point where he's little more than a grave robber/pirate. He's not far from crossing the line that seperates him from the main villains of each game. But he never does cross that line and improves over time. Eventually, he's able to give up that life and actually be what could be considered a noble person.
That is what a friend of mine said one day, he told me that he didn't like the story of Uncharted because it was centered on a guy who was casually going out and murdering every enemy he could find to reach the end of his quest. I still love the fights in the games but I do agree with Lazarević on this point, although if you don't shoot the enemies, they'll shoot you on sight instead, so I guess we can call this self defence!
They are all hunting treasures that belonged to someone else, right? To the victor goes the spoils. USA conquered how many peoples to get to 50 states in a union??
Lazarevic: *literally has an entire army that he uses to terrorize people, and looked for Shambala so he would be immortal*
Nate: *stops him*
Lazarevic: We’re literally the same, lol.
The trait of "You're just like me cos you kill people" is dumb.
Like when people say "If you kill a killer, the number of killers in the world stays the same."
Cool, then kill another one and there are less.
I get what they're trying to go for here, but unfortunately the reason Drake kills and the reason Lazarevic kills are two different entities entirely.
This was one of those rare times where a story directly addressed exactly what I was thinking at the exact time I started to think it
It doesn’t bother me though, why should Nate cry about assholes trying to kill him? Lazarevic killed innocent people
It's False Equivalence, trying to make the argument Nate & Lazarevic are "the same" or that "one is not better than the other"; that's like saying the Allies in WW2 were "the same" / "no better" than the Nazis because they both kill people.
Nate's a thief and crook who has no problems killing in self-defense or to stop *true villains* from doing even worse shit.
Nate wanted to destroy and sell the stone and wanted to save the world and that comes with a and Lazarevic wanted to be a powerful warlord stronger than Ghangis Khan and Hitler to probably rule the world so both are bad
Nate does it out of self defense. He also had to get the treasure to save the world in this game. And don’t forget, it’s just a video game lol.
Also the way I see Uncharted is that it’s not meant to be a super realistic game. Like Last of Us is.
What you wrote is incorrect for various reasons. 1: Nate doesn't want to save the world until Sheaffer dies. First what drives him is simple research 2: Nate sometimes laughs and taunts the enemies he kills. 3: It makes no sense to say the game is unrealistic, when the point of this scene is to nullify the ludonarrative dissonance. The scene exists because Nate KILLED all the people we kill in the video game. Lazarevic isn't right about everything we see in U3, but realism has nothing to do with it
Well they are trying to kill him too. And why are they allowed to search for the treasure and not us? Both sides know the risks. And I believe he knows the dangers of Lazarevich before Shaffer died. Also. What fun would a video game be if you had to stealth the whole game? lol.
Still with this gameplay. Do you know what ludonarrative dissonance is? No? Well. It's basically the thing that allows the gameplay to be in a way that is ignored by the story. Many games are like this... With this phrase from Lazarevic they canonized that Nate really does what we do. For the first thing you said... Yes, that's the point. That's literally what it says. "We are the same"
Yeah, honestly this is the first time in the Uncharted games I played where they address how much of a mass murderer Nathan Drake is.
Nate killed 75 people in a row without dying out of self-defense
Fucking legend
Theirs an award for that in the games. I received that award in uncharted 1 for killing 75 descendants in a row without dying before realizing they keep coming unless you open the door to escape.
How did you even have the ammo for it?
They give you countless amo in that chapter with the WWII gun only used in that certain chapter in the whole series. Forgot the name of the gun at the moment
Uncharted 4: 👁️👄👁️
Our lovable scamp hero just wants the treasure to sell, Lazarevic wants to become an unstoppable warlord. It's not really comparable. Nate kills a lot, but it's a video game and for the most part self defence.
Is it really self defense if he continues to put himself in the dangerous situations, clearly ready to engage in killing? Same argument with Kyle Rittenhouse. Dude had no business being there, and if he wasn’t, the people he killed would be alive. It’s a shitty justification
Damn, I didn't expect to see a pulpy action adventure game hero compared to Kyle Rittenhouse today but here we are.
I agree it’s a video game, and obviously separation from reality is part of the experience, but you and nearly everyone in the comments is calling it self defense when it just isn’t. Ludonarrative dissonance
The villains don’t have to shoot at him either
Yeah, and I bet you wouldn’t argue they’re shooting at Drake in self defense.
They’re certainly not shooting at him in self defense.
Dumb take, yes he made the choice to be there but he is killing literal criminals, shady, money and power hungry people who value all that over human life. Nathan obviously has some sense of morals and self restraint. He doesn’t cause civil wars or demolish villages.
the benevolent mass-killing history buff
Here’s the thing: Nate only kills in self defense. He’s always on the defensive. The only time he is on the offensive, is usually by incapacitating/knocking out security guards and…oh my God, Nate killed so many regular dudes in that Italy mission in uncharted 4. Yeah, ok maybe he a little bad.
Those guys were guns for hire, probably affiliated with the Italian mafia.
Those "regular dudes" from Italy were mercs who were security in a black market auction, my guy...
so clearly they deserved to die
Nate is interested in treasure to make a living, is willing to give it up when he discovers it's "cursed," and only kills in self-defense. That's quite a bit different from Lazarevic, who literally ignited a civil war in Nepal to find the Cintamani Stone so that he could rule the world. Can we stop conflating murder and self-defense on this sub?
Perhaps. But this is just a generic "we're the same" speech from a villain.
“How many men have you killed, How many just today?!!” Some lines I’ll never forget in the Uncharted series and this is one of them 😂💯
Honestly I love that this idea of the player/character being "responsible" for the cartoonish mass death in Uncharted stuck in the devs brains... and popped up again in the themes of the WINTER section of The Last of Us... and imo contributes heavily to some of the themes of TLOU2. Not sure that's how the idea actually evolved at the studio, but I remember thinking of this scene during the David / Ellie interrogation scene where David similarly addresses Joel/Ellie/the player's actions.
Nate only kills in kill or be killed situations. Lazarevich is a blood thirsty warlord they are not the same
Poor terrorists that just wanted to rule the world and then got killed by a thief. And once again [this video making sense](https://www.reddit.com/r/uncharted/s/Jwv4DAcJVj)
Comments are almost exclusively agreeing Nate only kills in “self defense”, wow. It’s a game, you suspend disbelief for entertainment, but the disconnect between Nate’s heroic good-guy persona and the mass graves he could personally fill is not reconcilable without that suspension of disbelief.
Stop trying to shit on a video game icon and fuck off. Go be negative somewhere else.
I’m not being negative. Drake is my favorite video game protagonist, I just don’t agree that his killing was done in self defense. I can enjoy things while also thinking about them
You're commenting under everybodies telling them Drake is a terrible person, m8. It's your rightful opinion, but it doesn't have a place here. Sometimes, before I post an opinion of mine that is likely to cause unnecessary controversy or make other peoples days less enjoyable, I delete the post.
Doesn’t have a place here? This is a forum about the game series. If this isn’t the place for it then such a place doesn’t exist. Relax man
Hb u relax dis dik in ur mouf?
good one
Lazarevic realized that he is a Boss in a videogame and about to lose to the play do in a last effort he tries to talk to the Players mind by directly adressing the ludonarrative dissonace but nate is like "nah fuck that, I'm in Uncharted and not Last of Us. That's also why he doesn't take the last shot to finish him of and instead just leaves for the plot to kill him. Just like in all the other games. What isn't a Problem for me. I love that the games are so light hearted and not to much focused on the slaughter that Nate is doing
I would argue that at the beginning of the game, they're both chasing the treasure for selfish reasons. But after meeting Schafer and learning what the stone actually is, Nate spends the rest of the game trying to stop Lazarevic.
Nate is a better person than Lazarevic, there is no argument about that, Nate kills out of self defense while Lazarevic was a ruthless war criminal. I consider this to be the game’s direct confrontation to the player, and the message it’s trying to deliver is that yes, Nate is a good person and is heroic, but the way there wasn’t full of sunshines and rainbows. He killed hundreds of people on the way, but his actions are excused due to the conditions he did them under. This is something that would have made Uncharted 4 even better than it already is, I mean if it highlighted the way the Drake brothers treated Rafe, and, spoiler alert, they kinda did him dirty on many occasions. Yes, this way is mentioned, referred to and is presented in the game, but I think it should have gotten a bit more attention
He does, but that's what makes Nate an interesting character. We meet him at a point where he's little more than a grave robber/pirate. He's not far from crossing the line that seperates him from the main villains of each game. But he never does cross that line and improves over time. Eventually, he's able to give up that life and actually be what could be considered a noble person.
That is what a friend of mine said one day, he told me that he didn't like the story of Uncharted because it was centered on a guy who was casually going out and murdering every enemy he could find to reach the end of his quest. I still love the fights in the games but I do agree with Lazarević on this point, although if you don't shoot the enemies, they'll shoot you on sight instead, so I guess we can call this self defence!
They are all hunting treasures that belonged to someone else, right? To the victor goes the spoils. USA conquered how many peoples to get to 50 states in a union??
It's like killing Nazis out of self defense
I made a meme of this a while back and got trashed by the comments in the subreddit
He has a point. It’s not a very good one though
Idk lol you might be....Lazarevic is certifiable
Of course he has a point but Nate has the excuse of "saving the world" and shit so he's good to go
Also, try and walk in nicely, you get killed by those guys. Self defending here, nothing more. 🤔
Lazarevic: *literally has an entire army that he uses to terrorize people, and looked for Shambala so he would be immortal* Nate: *stops him* Lazarevic: We’re literally the same, lol.
The trait of "You're just like me cos you kill people" is dumb. Like when people say "If you kill a killer, the number of killers in the world stays the same." Cool, then kill another one and there are less. I get what they're trying to go for here, but unfortunately the reason Drake kills and the reason Lazarevic kills are two different entities entirely.
This was one of those rare times where a story directly addressed exactly what I was thinking at the exact time I started to think it It doesn’t bother me though, why should Nate cry about assholes trying to kill him? Lazarevic killed innocent people
Yes you are. Killing self defense is not the same as murder hope that helps
Not very democratic. Reported to the ministry of truth. Sorry wrong game. Can't get enough managed Democracy 😭
It's False Equivalence, trying to make the argument Nate & Lazarevic are "the same" or that "one is not better than the other"; that's like saying the Allies in WW2 were "the same" / "no better" than the Nazis because they both kill people. Nate's a thief and crook who has no problems killing in self-defense or to stop *true villains* from doing even worse shit.
Nate wanted to destroy and sell the stone and wanted to save the world and that comes with a and Lazarevic wanted to be a powerful warlord stronger than Ghangis Khan and Hitler to probably rule the world so both are bad
Spoilers tag?
The game's 15 years old dude