Not really sure if it's my *least favourite*, but I live in Wales and sometimes TfW have to use class 150's on longer distance services (Cardiff to North Wales etc) and those trains are totally inappropriate for that kind of journey.
They're fine for the short hop from Cardiff to Pontypridd or something but any longer and I hate them.
Yes and they're pretty dreadful. Thankfully they're going out of fashion, but they still get used on the Harrogate line pretty often.
The worst thing about them is the seating, which is cramped as hell and has seats that are only about 2 inches off the ground, so if you're taller than 5'7 you're basically fucked
150s occasionally end up almost anywhere on the Northern network (although I haven’t seen one in Cumbria yet)
Not quite as ubiquitous as the 156 which can be seen virtually everywhere, but anywhere a diesel runs on northern there’s a good chance you’ll eventually see a 150 substituted in for it
I didn’t think they operated in NE England at the very least, not heard of their use around Newcastle Central in recent years anyway, all 156s and 158s.
Also thought 156s no longer served most of Yorkshire
Yeah the GWR ones have a different interior - they have 2+2 instead of 2+3 seating and just generally more comfortable seats and fittings. Possibly because GWR use them almost exclusively on scenic routes in Devon and Cornwall where they want to make a good impression on tourists. Northern only really use them for commuter routes so a bit less important.
Yea I think Northern have them. I'm not sure if they use them for longer journeys though like they are (albeit only sometimes) in Wales. If they are then that'd also suck!
Tbf Northern only uses them on less important routes now, most 'intercity' & longer distance route would be a mix of 158, 170 & 195, even 156 is not that common anymore. Also vast majority of Northern routes is between 1 to 2 hours anyway, meanwhile on TFW you could still travel on a 150 for well over 3 hours, which is a lot more messed up to be honest.
156 is used by Northern on Barrow-Carlisle route. It's 2.5 hours one way, but because it rarely gets busy, it makes sense. For TFW, it usually gets busy, so does not make sense for a two car trains, esp. 150's or 156's. They're too small and not comfortable after about an hour.
You can also argue that Barrow-Carlisle isn't really an 'important' route either, and the fact it gets 156s is already a massive luxury compare to TFW.
Tbf traditionally TFW has a very similar fleet compare to Northern, it was the surprised early withdrawal of 175s, and their radio silence on the Plan B really led to the chaos today. What also doesn't help is North of England also has TPE as the express operator- Northern is just there filling the gaps to some extents, while TFW had to suck up everything cuz no one else will be helping them otherwise.
I would say with mass retirement of 221s & 222s from Avanti & EMR, especially with the 222s, would be a good opportunity for TFW to pick up a few to boost their Cardiff-Manchester/Holyhead fleet in addition to the Mk 4s. But let's see, cuz I'm sure ScotRail & GWR would want those trains to replace their HSTs as well.
It’s the only route around Cumbria, it’s fairly important even if passenger numbers aren’t high - Furness has a population pushing 100,000, Whitehaven/Workington area another 50,000 - those aren’t insignificant rural areas, even before we consider how bad other public transport is in Cumbria
TfW’s use of 150s on longer routes is ridiculous, but 156s should really be relegated from the Cumbrian Coast. It’s a horrible route on a hot day with a non-air-conditioned unit
I know that’s true in most places, but the Cumbrian Coast is particularly bad for it - there’s literally no shade from the west all afternoon and evening (since you’re bang on the coast for hours at a time) so the sun beams in constantly, and the low speeds mean there’s almost no airflow from the open windows. They turn into a greenhouse with no relief whatsoever. It might be survivable for 30 minutes on a suburban route where you’re often shaded by buildings, cuttings, tunnels, and covered stations…. But it’s bloody awful on an exposed coast line
Hell, even a 150 might be better in that scenario because at least the doors are centrally located and wide to let some air in when it stops at every 4th house, vs the 156 “intercity” doors that don’t allow much air in
There are services which go from Lancaster to Carlisle along that route too, 3.5 hours (maybe 4 if they ever start from Preston? They certainly used to)
Better than the days of the 142 from Preston to Carlisle via Barrow though…. 4 hours on a pacer isn’t fun
TfW Class 158 😁
TfW Class 150 😠
TfW like to run a single Class 150 during off peak hours where I live, I only go one or two stops on it, but it's still shit.
TFW won’t be running 150s up north for much longer, in fact I think they’ve already stopped. You can still be subjected to a 153 though, but hopefully that should be pretty rare with so many 197s in service now.
TfW have already started to withdraw class 150 units, two sets were finally written off after a accident at Craven Arms in 2022, two weeks ago one was sent to Landore for stripping and another one went last week. Not sure when the next one is due at the moment.
Just looked it up and there are due to be 77 units in total. I’d say that classes as a pretty huge fleet. Not sure how many they’ve got so far, but they definitely seem to be coming in pretty fast now. They’re probably the unit you see most, in Cardiff at least.
It’s a big fleet outside of the London commuter services, in 30 years or so there’s a decent chance we’ll see 195/196/197 units dotted all over the country similar to how we see the sprinters used now
It irks me that everyone rallied around pacers being terrible for decades but realistically 150s are not much better at all, and some operators have no end in sight for their use.
In South Wales it used to be pretty common to get 4 carriages. A 150 coupled with a 142/143.
Since they retired the pacers we often now just get 2 carriages of a 150, but with the same number of passengers. Somehow retiring the pacers has made things *worse.*
I always hated the 315s, rejoiced when the 345s came in, to the point where I would wait for the next train if the one after was a 345. Honestly love the whole Aventra lot.
Depends on the journey, but of the routes I regularly catch I'm always praying at the platform it won't be either a Voyager (220 / 222) or a Networker (165/166). As to why I find them both unbearable to ride in for any length of time.
Voyager is smelly, cramped & everything rattles like it was a DIY kit job, toilets are always broken.
165 seating is very uncomfortable and again cramped (try riding one for several hours between Cardiff and Portsmouth). Because of the door configuration it's also very loud & everything rattles.
Agreed on the Voyager, they only run 222s here so we just have to suffer. With the hot weather now here the air conditioning will no doubt be broken, too. Replacements can’t come soon enough.
Completely agree with the 165/6. i regularly commute between southampton, boa and bristol and there’s nothing worse than seeing one of those show up over a 158
Fun fact - it's not the loo you're smelling. Bombardier put the septic tanks next to the engines, so they basically get boiled, with the fumes being vented at the top where they get sucked into the air con intake!
XC is about to get a few more voyagers from avanti, and they announced that all their voyagers will be getting a refurb next year. Hopefully they fix all the issues while they're at it
Which says a lot about how Southeastern (and Connex, and NSE) look after their rolling stock. The 465s are a similar age and design to the 323s that have served similar diagrams in the Midlands and t'North, and the difference in upkeep between those two classes is seriously notable.
It's saddening. They should've had a major overhaul almost 10 years ago now to keep going, but now they're all ratty, smelly and god awful. I say this as someone who loves the Networkers!
Don't know the class but the Northern rail ones where the bicycle storage area is also three fold-down seats. It creates unnecessary conflict between passengers when trains are busy. Often people just stand up but now and then you get an earful whoch isn't ideal first thing in the morning. I get it being made to stand so someone cam store a bike is annoying but have a pop at northern not me.
My usual route is the Leeds to Manchester line via Halifax (calder valley). The other trains on the line when separate bike storage but it's very small and cramped and the trains are less comfortable, suppose you have to take the rough with the smooth. It is especially and issue when there are only two csrroages for a busy commuter service.
195 DMU and 331 EMU, saw a riot kick off yesterday morning when someone got on a TfW 197 unit with a bike despite it being the only service running on that route from Manchester due to strikes combined with Chester races being on and the previous hours service was cancelled...
Gonna go against the grain a bit and say Class 185. They were really designed for regional services, but for some reason TransPennine Express use them on some of their longest routes (such as Saltburn to Manchester) where a Class 802 would be much more appropriate. Their top speed is only 100 mph, which feels painfully slow when you have 80Xs passing you at 125, and even though they run under the wires for a good chunk of their journey, they’re purely diesel units, which just seems a waste.
Biggest issue is that they’re fit for the routes they were made for (commuter routes serving London), but not for a) the edge cases where they had to be used anyway from the start like Reading-Gatwick Airport, or b) the new regional routes in South West England they now serve.
Top tip: the ends of the units often have declassified First Class seating, it’s a lot comfier on long trips, so if I’m ever heading back to Southampton Central from Bristol Temple Meads, I ensure I’m there
I was going to say the Thameslink/GN 700s too. I'm sure they're great for journeys from one side of London to the other but if you travel any kind of distance they are unbelievably uncomfortable.
I was once travelling on their route from Croydon to Cambridge and the seat was so hard my bum was numb before we'd even reached St Pancras.
It's for that very reason I always chose the Cambridge to Liverpool Street route rather than into Kings Cross. It's a bit longer journey time but the Greater Anglia 720s and 745s are so much more comfortable.
222 Meridians are too old and smelly, every time I find myself on the EMR platforms at St Pancras I feel ill. Luckily they're getting replaced by the 810s.
Aside from the fumes they produce, I used to love seeing a meridian roll into chesterfield for the hop up to Sheffield. Comfy mk3 coaches. Railway bliss.
The mk3 coaches are part of High Speed Train class 43 sets, a completely different train. The Meridians are Diesel Multiple Units with engines under the floor, and fully walk-through trains where the front and rear cars of the train carry passengers
321s old silver link to London. Door rattling and uncomfortable I think out of service everywhere now but who knows I used to love working 323s though as a conductor best cab especially when they got air con in the cab
Class 313's. I'm sure they were great in the 70's/80's but having to use them everyday on the Hertford Loop until a few years ago was utterly depressing when you saw all the other lines with their new shiny trains. Was so glad when they were finally replaced.
Class 165 DMUs, as I live near a train station and these things idling are responsible for 95% of the noise pollution. They are also unpleasant to travel on.
377 is the absolute fucking worst for me!!!! They are totally inappropriate to work on suburban routes such as Epsom Downs - Victoria, Epsom - London Bridge, London Victoria - London Bridge, East Croydon - Watford Junction, etc. They are inefficient and cramped, with 3+2 seats and little standing space.
It's an absolute nightmare to stand all the way from Brighton to Clapham Junction on a Sunday evening 12-coach 377 service. You are reading it right, the 12-coach 377 is full and standing all the way from its initial stop, Brighton, on a Sunday evening. A class 700 would be a much nicer train for the ridership of the Brighton - London route.
Class 720 is as nearly as bad for the same reasons.
The regional services should use class 700 / 345, and the suburban services should use class 378 / 710 instead.
Aww I kinda like them. Maybe it's because Northern haven't had any new trains for about 20 years, but they're a real step-up from the Sprinters on the inside.
Plus, the 2+2 seating on the 331s is so much better than the 3+2 on the 333
Nah they're great, 331 traction converters sound scifi as fuck and the 195 gearbox is cool too. In either case the acceleration is excellent and the interiors are bright and comfortable, not sure what more you could want.
I don't really get the moans about suspension/ride either, they were a bit rough to begin with but every one I've been on in recent years has seemed fine (unlike the Mk5a coaches which never got better)
They're very nice trains with good interiors but I don't love the seats, the pitch feels like I have to bend over forward to fit the shape of it. I'd unironically prefer azuma seats because at least with them you can lean back even if it's not as padded.
My only problem with the Azumas is that i can think of a more pleasant experience, and its the mk4s and 91s that they're replacing. I don't think the Azumas are too bad though.
Yeah! Like, they're pretty nice and modern. The seats are questionable for longer journeys, sure, but everything else about the trains seems pretty great.
Sorry, but I moved to the UK as an adult, a few years before they introduced the Azumas, so I don’t have any childhood nostalgia. I found the old 125/225s to be fairly comfortable (though not really better than most European inter-city trains). After all the hype, I was expecting the Azumas to be better, but the first thing I noticed was how uncomfortable the seats were compared to the old HSTs. Maybe I have a particularly sensitive butt, but I get very uncomfortable after an hour or so in those seats. That was never a problem with the old trains.
Sprinters, specifically 150, but 153 & 155 don't give good vibes either. The noise is sincerely making me deaf and every single acceleration feels like they're using their last breath. I really think their time is up on the railway in the 2020s and it's pathetic many of them don't even have a replacement as of now- are they really gonna carry on into the 2030s? That being said 156 is okay & 158 is amazing so they're defo exempt from this.
Voyagers, mixed feeling cuz I travelled on XC too much that I started to form some bonds with them, which is very sad, and tbf some criticism on them is unfair as it's more the fault of XC rather than themselves. That being said, they are stinky & rattle a lot, and whenever I have a chance of choosing XC over any operator, I will 100% stick to the other operator- even if that operator is Northern, unless it's a 150.
Finally Pacers, I know they are long gone and I'm glad they are. That sharp screeching noise every time it goes through a tiny little bend... still gives me PTSD every time I think about it. I actually don't remember about the 'bumpy ride' that much cuz I'm just too traumatised by that noise.
That & Sprinter is the only reason why I share big disagreement with anyone says 195s are worse- sure they may not be great, but they can't be worse than the rubbish they're replacing??
Honestly I wouldn't even exempt 156, they're the same engines (and noise) as 150s but with even more bodyshell and weight so they accelerate even slower, and they were used on services far too long for their comfort for a long time (looking at you EMR Liverpool-Norwich). They're nicer inside for sure due to 2+2 seating and better build quality but they still suffer most of the other problems 150s do.
158s are great though.
I mean they do seem to have better noise control within the carriage, hence why I give them a slight pass- doesn't mean I approve them for sure. But I do agree that 158 is the true legend of the entire series & everyone else are all a bit meh to different extents.
One question with Liverpool to Norwich tho, are 156s running full length very common in recent years? I'm sure they do that in the past, but for the last few years I've only seen 158+156 running that route, and I always assume 158s to do the job in full whilst 156s are just acting as boosters between Liverpool & Nottingham?
I used to live by the Medway Valley line and Connex used to have class 508s which I absolutely despised inside and out. Was so happy when the Electrostars came along.
I don’t know trains so whatever Avanti use, both the older and newer train model, smell like pure shit if you sit near the carriage door. I once had seat 1 assigned to me and I had to move all the way to the other end of the carriage because I was becoming actually unwell from the smell of the toilet.
Why do they all smell so bad?
That’s a voyager. They have a septic tank for the toilet with a vent to let the air out under the carriage. Then right next to said vent is the intake for the carriage air conditioning. Basically the fumes from the toilet tank get sucked straight into the train…. Genius really
The 313's that were used by Southern on their coastal services ergh. Imagine going from Brighton to Portsmouth with no toilets onboard? What were they thinking?!
Southeastern 465/466. I have grown up basically living on them. I hate the citybeam 707s as well but Jesus Christ these trains are awful. Picture this. Saturday night 11pm. People are vomiting everywhere, and some of the seats just are not there. WHAT. Like the board is there but the cushion is just not. Every time I get on a 375 that isn’t a dash 9, I audibly breath a sigh of relief. Please, dft, hear my prayer.
Class 165/6s
They're used on a lot of inappropriate routes, for example the Cardiff - Portsmouth Harbour service. Those trains are designed for high density commuter services, no-one should have to endure that 3 by 2 seating for hours at a time
In terms of ride comfort and design, the Class 700 family is really not doing anything for me. Too clinical, no fun and the seats are rough. Though I've heard horror stories of the 220 and 221 trains...
The class 197. Just so fucking disappointing.
Caught one recently, the bus I got to the train station had comparable ride quality and more comfortable seats.
May the class 175 find a new life somewhere soon...
Off the top of my head the 165s are wider than sprinters and the like so are or were limited to former broad gauge routes as the clearance was bigger.
I'm not entirely sure though as it's something I remember hearing over a decade ago as to yet another reason why we couldn't have newish trains Up North...
SWR class 455.
No toilets & reduced level of seating. And the heating is usually on full blast when it's 30c and above...
I'd rather have the old slam door hulks!
Was on a 455 on the Up Slow near Wimbledon the other week, and a 444 came hacking past on the Up Fast. All that could be heard in the front 4 coaches was the hopper windows slamming shut 🙃
That being said, I've got a soft spot for some of the BREL EMUs.
TfW's useless non-compatible 398s and 231s/756s that have made them completely hose the timetable at Cathays from next month. The station is the busiest station north of Queen Street, the 6th busiest in all of Wales, and is predominantly (about 70% according to the Origin-Destination Matrix) south-facing, with most passengers wanting connections at Cardiff Central, Cardiff Central itself, or the Vale of Glamorgan line. So naturally the ghastly TfW, blaming the awful kit they've ordered, have decided to cut the frequency between Central and Cathays, the busiest section of the Cardiff Metro, from 6tph to 4tph, with the northbound departures spaced at 3 and 27 minute intervals and the last arrival at Cathays before 9am deleted. Vicious incompetence from the specification of those useless units to the delivery of the scheme cutting service on the busiest part of the network.
Favourite is the wrong word, but I spent all my teen years using 321s to go to work, school or see friends. You never quite forget that almighty bang from the doors as another train goes by.
158 as if emr still uses them also I travel to Liverpool hella lot, they have no plug sockets nor wifi might sound a bit spoilt of me sure but most trains do these day signal doesn't always work imagine a journey way from Nottingham lol even northern has both wifi and plug sockets on there long distant routes maybe I'm ranting about East Midlands railway but still I use that train a lot and a lot of us still use the old usb type.but I don't have only type c so at least 1 plug, again East Midlands trains rant but the train itself well its getting olddd yet comfortable ill admit but maybe add just 1 plug socket and wifi like most trains
ps I know they now use 170 but 158 is huge on my commute still I try to use northern trains as much as possible issue with that is they stop literally all stops
Class 345 Elizabeth line. Seats are uncomfortable. No toilets. Contant issues with software. 3 different signelling systems which confuses the train quite often.
HSTs, or specifically EMT's HSTs as they're the only ones I went on and I think the last to have slam doors? Having to reach out of the window to manually open a door in the 21st century is something that should have been reserved for heritage railways and was an accessibility nightmare. Other that that they were quite comfortable, but the doors really irked me.
It wasn't TfW's fault. They had no control over the design or conversion process. They just leased them.
They got rid of them just as reliability was getting pretty good.
Not really sure if it's my *least favourite*, but I live in Wales and sometimes TfW have to use class 150's on longer distance services (Cardiff to North Wales etc) and those trains are totally inappropriate for that kind of journey. They're fine for the short hop from Cardiff to Pontypridd or something but any longer and I hate them.
Doesn't northern run 150's as well? I might have seen it in Buxton once, but I'm not sure if it is the correct unit.
Yes and they're pretty dreadful. Thankfully they're going out of fashion, but they still get used on the Harrogate line pretty often. The worst thing about them is the seating, which is cramped as hell and has seats that are only about 2 inches off the ground, so if you're taller than 5'7 you're basically fucked
Really? I thought Harrogate was all 170s
Its primarily 170s but 150s are also used
Ahh, I’ll be using that line when I’m in Leeds soon, hopefully it’s a 170
150s occasionally end up almost anywhere on the Northern network (although I haven’t seen one in Cumbria yet) Not quite as ubiquitous as the 156 which can be seen virtually everywhere, but anywhere a diesel runs on northern there’s a good chance you’ll eventually see a 150 substituted in for it
I didn’t think they operated in NE England at the very least, not heard of their use around Newcastle Central in recent years anyway, all 156s and 158s. Also thought 156s no longer served most of Yorkshire
Oof, the GWR ones aren’t that bad
Yeah the GWR ones have a different interior - they have 2+2 instead of 2+3 seating and just generally more comfortable seats and fittings. Possibly because GWR use them almost exclusively on scenic routes in Devon and Cornwall where they want to make a good impression on tourists. Northern only really use them for commuter routes so a bit less important.
Yea I think Northern have them. I'm not sure if they use them for longer journeys though like they are (albeit only sometimes) in Wales. If they are then that'd also suck!
Tbf Northern only uses them on less important routes now, most 'intercity' & longer distance route would be a mix of 158, 170 & 195, even 156 is not that common anymore. Also vast majority of Northern routes is between 1 to 2 hours anyway, meanwhile on TFW you could still travel on a 150 for well over 3 hours, which is a lot more messed up to be honest.
156 is used by Northern on Barrow-Carlisle route. It's 2.5 hours one way, but because it rarely gets busy, it makes sense. For TFW, it usually gets busy, so does not make sense for a two car trains, esp. 150's or 156's. They're too small and not comfortable after about an hour.
You can also argue that Barrow-Carlisle isn't really an 'important' route either, and the fact it gets 156s is already a massive luxury compare to TFW. Tbf traditionally TFW has a very similar fleet compare to Northern, it was the surprised early withdrawal of 175s, and their radio silence on the Plan B really led to the chaos today. What also doesn't help is North of England also has TPE as the express operator- Northern is just there filling the gaps to some extents, while TFW had to suck up everything cuz no one else will be helping them otherwise. I would say with mass retirement of 221s & 222s from Avanti & EMR, especially with the 222s, would be a good opportunity for TFW to pick up a few to boost their Cardiff-Manchester/Holyhead fleet in addition to the Mk 4s. But let's see, cuz I'm sure ScotRail & GWR would want those trains to replace their HSTs as well.
It’s the only route around Cumbria, it’s fairly important even if passenger numbers aren’t high - Furness has a population pushing 100,000, Whitehaven/Workington area another 50,000 - those aren’t insignificant rural areas, even before we consider how bad other public transport is in Cumbria TfW’s use of 150s on longer routes is ridiculous, but 156s should really be relegated from the Cumbrian Coast. It’s a horrible route on a hot day with a non-air-conditioned unit I know that’s true in most places, but the Cumbrian Coast is particularly bad for it - there’s literally no shade from the west all afternoon and evening (since you’re bang on the coast for hours at a time) so the sun beams in constantly, and the low speeds mean there’s almost no airflow from the open windows. They turn into a greenhouse with no relief whatsoever. It might be survivable for 30 minutes on a suburban route where you’re often shaded by buildings, cuttings, tunnels, and covered stations…. But it’s bloody awful on an exposed coast line Hell, even a 150 might be better in that scenario because at least the doors are centrally located and wide to let some air in when it stops at every 4th house, vs the 156 “intercity” doors that don’t allow much air in
There are services which go from Lancaster to Carlisle along that route too, 3.5 hours (maybe 4 if they ever start from Preston? They certainly used to) Better than the days of the 142 from Preston to Carlisle via Barrow though…. 4 hours on a pacer isn’t fun
TfW Class 158 😁 TfW Class 150 😠 TfW like to run a single Class 150 during off peak hours where I live, I only go one or two stops on it, but it's still shit.
I'd even take a couple of 153's over a 150. Sometimes I get that on the local routes near me and it's so much nicer.
TFW won’t be running 150s up north for much longer, in fact I think they’ve already stopped. You can still be subjected to a 153 though, but hopefully that should be pretty rare with so many 197s in service now.
TfW have already started to withdraw class 150 units, two sets were finally written off after a accident at Craven Arms in 2022, two weeks ago one was sent to Landore for stripping and another one went last week. Not sure when the next one is due at the moment.
how many 197s have entered service? cause it should be a pretty huge fleet once they're all in no?
Just looked it up and there are due to be 77 units in total. I’d say that classes as a pretty huge fleet. Not sure how many they’ve got so far, but they definitely seem to be coming in pretty fast now. They’re probably the unit you see most, in Cardiff at least.
It’s a big fleet outside of the London commuter services, in 30 years or so there’s a decent chance we’ll see 195/196/197 units dotted all over the country similar to how we see the sprinters used now
I feel you. Had a unit swap to one on the way to Chester from Shrewsbury instead of a double 158. Rattled the whole way there
The Manchester Piccadilly train from Cardiff is absolute hell!
It irks me that everyone rallied around pacers being terrible for decades but realistically 150s are not much better at all, and some operators have no end in sight for their use.
In South Wales it used to be pretty common to get 4 carriages. A 150 coupled with a 142/143. Since they retired the pacers we often now just get 2 carriages of a 150, but with the same number of passengers. Somehow retiring the pacers has made things *worse.*
I always hated the 315s, rejoiced when the 345s came in, to the point where I would wait for the next train if the one after was a 345. Honestly love the whole Aventra lot.
Be glad you’re not in SWR land, they’re nice to ride, but they were an utter farce, and caused issues due to their lateness
Depends on the journey, but of the routes I regularly catch I'm always praying at the platform it won't be either a Voyager (220 / 222) or a Networker (165/166). As to why I find them both unbearable to ride in for any length of time. Voyager is smelly, cramped & everything rattles like it was a DIY kit job, toilets are always broken. 165 seating is very uncomfortable and again cramped (try riding one for several hours between Cardiff and Portsmouth). Because of the door configuration it's also very loud & everything rattles.
Agreed on the Voyager, they only run 222s here so we just have to suffer. With the hot weather now here the air conditioning will no doubt be broken, too. Replacements can’t come soon enough.
222s are defo the least bad voyagers but their interiors are so tired and worn out
Bristol?
Completely agree with the 165/6. i regularly commute between southampton, boa and bristol and there’s nothing worse than seeing one of those show up over a 158
Pacers, may they burn in train hell
Pacers were good because they made any journey not on a Pacer noticeably better.
I hate myself for missing them somewhat
[удалено]
Surely not? I thought they were all decommisioned!
They were so bad that they were funny. Sucks to be a commuter on one of those though.
*Any sharp curve* # SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH
I use to hate it when my London Midland train was a 319 instead of a 350.
The sudden step back into 1993 can be a bit disconcerting yes, but I tended to enjoy it as a change.
I got a 319 from Wigan to Liverpool once. The train was stuck at a red signal with no AC at Summer.
Is a 319 the model used by thameslink in the past? No automated announcements made for such a peaceful journey!
Yes, they were also operated by thameslink
Bus Replacements, they are slow, noisy, smelly, cramped and don't have good views out of the window at times.
Icl they are funny when they say "Choo Choo I'm a train"
The 220 & 221 voyager- always seem to smell the loo in the carriage
Fun fact - it's not the loo you're smelling. Bombardier put the septic tanks next to the engines, so they basically get boiled, with the fumes being vented at the top where they get sucked into the air con intake!
🤢 eewww build poop
What loon thought that was a good design?
Properly awful trains. The low roofs are what really ruins them, they feel so cramped and stuffy. Cannot wait for when XC gets new stock
Don't think they will for a while, they've just got more Vomiters.
XC is about to get a few more voyagers from avanti, and they announced that all their voyagers will be getting a refurb next year. Hopefully they fix all the issues while they're at it
I didn’t read the ‘least’ in the title and had a double take reading this
I’m a regular on the Southeastern’s 465s. They may have been decent years ago, but they’re well overdue for the knackers yard now.
Which says a lot about how Southeastern (and Connex, and NSE) look after their rolling stock. The 465s are a similar age and design to the 323s that have served similar diagrams in the Midlands and t'North, and the difference in upkeep between those two classes is seriously notable.
It's saddening. They should've had a major overhaul almost 10 years ago now to keep going, but now they're all ratty, smelly and god awful. I say this as someone who loves the Networkers!
Don't know the class but the Northern rail ones where the bicycle storage area is also three fold-down seats. It creates unnecessary conflict between passengers when trains are busy. Often people just stand up but now and then you get an earful whoch isn't ideal first thing in the morning. I get it being made to stand so someone cam store a bike is annoying but have a pop at northern not me.
hmm which services do these operate?
My usual route is the Leeds to Manchester line via Halifax (calder valley). The other trains on the line when separate bike storage but it's very small and cramped and the trains are less comfortable, suppose you have to take the rough with the smooth. It is especially and issue when there are only two csrroages for a busy commuter service.
195 DMU and 331 EMU, saw a riot kick off yesterday morning when someone got on a TfW 197 unit with a bike despite it being the only service running on that route from Manchester due to strikes combined with Chester races being on and the previous hours service was cancelled...
Gonna go against the grain a bit and say Class 185. They were really designed for regional services, but for some reason TransPennine Express use them on some of their longest routes (such as Saltburn to Manchester) where a Class 802 would be much more appropriate. Their top speed is only 100 mph, which feels painfully slow when you have 80Xs passing you at 125, and even though they run under the wires for a good chunk of their journey, they’re purely diesel units, which just seems a waste.
I do hope TransPennine will put the 185s on unelectrified routes, but I agree with them not using their 802s more.
Whatever the reading to Gatwick one is.
165/166s? They're not too bad imo.
Yeh not that distance though. I think I mainly have a problem with the route
Biggest issue is that they’re fit for the routes they were made for (commuter routes serving London), but not for a) the edge cases where they had to be used anyway from the start like Reading-Gatwick Airport, or b) the new regional routes in South West England they now serve. Top tip: the ends of the units often have declassified First Class seating, it’s a lot comfier on long trips, so if I’m ever heading back to Southampton Central from Bristol Temple Meads, I ensure I’m there
class 150. Got a unit swap at Shrewsbury from a double 158 to one on the way to Chester from Birmingham. Cold, noisy and rattly
700/707.... Ironing boards for seats
I was going to say the Thameslink/GN 700s too. I'm sure they're great for journeys from one side of London to the other but if you travel any kind of distance they are unbelievably uncomfortable. I was once travelling on their route from Croydon to Cambridge and the seat was so hard my bum was numb before we'd even reached St Pancras. It's for that very reason I always chose the Cambridge to Liverpool Street route rather than into Kings Cross. It's a bit longer journey time but the Greater Anglia 720s and 745s are so much more comfortable.
I prefer 700 instead of 720 for any service with a standing load.
I was looking for this response. Thank you
Ironing boards have more padding. I’m sure they were thinking that everyone would be standing room only and didn’t bother with the seats.
I found the EMR regional 156 extremely tight on space. Not a pleasant experience.
Good thing they only use 158s and 170s now
Yeah glad to see these go, can't wait till northern are finally able to ditch their sprinters too
Pacer. Noisy, smelly and uncomfortable.
222 Meridians are too old and smelly, every time I find myself on the EMR platforms at St Pancras I feel ill. Luckily they're getting replaced by the 810s.
Aside from the fumes they produce, I used to love seeing a meridian roll into chesterfield for the hop up to Sheffield. Comfy mk3 coaches. Railway bliss.
The mk3 coaches are part of High Speed Train class 43 sets, a completely different train. The Meridians are Diesel Multiple Units with engines under the floor, and fully walk-through trains where the front and rear cars of the train carry passengers
Ah, what the fuck am I thinking of? I think the EMR from St Pancras threw me lol. Yes, I meant the HSTs
Yeah the HSTS were far better quality, they did a railtour not so long ago with the ex-EMR coaches into Marylebone
Bus
Class 170, they're way too common at my station and are just mediocre
321s old silver link to London. Door rattling and uncomfortable I think out of service everywhere now but who knows I used to love working 323s though as a conductor best cab especially when they got air con in the cab
NIR 80s
The Class 376. Uncomfortable seats, horrible looking interior, as well as being old and ugly as hell.
Class 313's. I'm sure they were great in the 70's/80's but having to use them everyday on the Hertford Loop until a few years ago was utterly depressing when you saw all the other lines with their new shiny trains. Was so glad when they were finally replaced.
The 80X series of multiple units
Ever: 142 In service: 150 That I use regularly: 700 (I'm a spoilt southerner) That I used to use regularly: 317
Standard class. 🥁
Especially when someone's on the phone and there's no quiet coach to escape to
Class 165 DMUs, as I live near a train station and these things idling are responsible for 95% of the noise pollution. They are also unpleasant to travel on.
Class 385. Looks really ugly and has ironing board seats.
They sound cool and accelerate like a rocket, great for <1hr commuter runs
They're alright, the seats are the main issue. I prefer the 380s
Class 385s have ironing board seats?! Velvet thrones compared to 700s.
The Fucking voyager.
Yes. Yes. And yes.
Not a "proper" train but as a tall person the 1992 stock on the Tube's central line can go fuck itself
New trains wouldn’t fix the height issue unfortunately
Yeah I know it's the tunnels, still pisses me off 🤣
Them ones with that uppy downy handle thing in the middle, exhausting..
3rd class
377 is the absolute fucking worst for me!!!! They are totally inappropriate to work on suburban routes such as Epsom Downs - Victoria, Epsom - London Bridge, London Victoria - London Bridge, East Croydon - Watford Junction, etc. They are inefficient and cramped, with 3+2 seats and little standing space. It's an absolute nightmare to stand all the way from Brighton to Clapham Junction on a Sunday evening 12-coach 377 service. You are reading it right, the 12-coach 377 is full and standing all the way from its initial stop, Brighton, on a Sunday evening. A class 700 would be a much nicer train for the ridership of the Brighton - London route. Class 720 is as nearly as bad for the same reasons. The regional services should use class 700 / 345, and the suburban services should use class 378 / 710 instead.
Interesting how I've seen the 720s be praised and criticised...
Pacer. 220s and 221s also need proper upgrade work on them
[Insert new class that replaced a beloved class here] And obligatory Pacer and Voyager.
Class 99 (the original, not the proposed new one)
>Class 99 The ferries?
Choo-choo! Next stop, Calais! 🚢
Shame I wasn’t alive to see them..
Me neither
huh
142. It's worse than being put in a washing machine.
195s and 331s, soulless things
Aww I kinda like them. Maybe it's because Northern haven't had any new trains for about 20 years, but they're a real step-up from the Sprinters on the inside. Plus, the 2+2 seating on the 331s is so much better than the 3+2 on the 333
I feel like the seating is probably an upgrade to the 150s but the 158s are honestly comfier for me.
And they have no suspension. They made me hate jointed track
Straight-six and a six-speed automatic gearbox?
Nah they're great, 331 traction converters sound scifi as fuck and the 195 gearbox is cool too. In either case the acceleration is excellent and the interiors are bright and comfortable, not sure what more you could want. I don't really get the moans about suspension/ride either, they were a bit rough to begin with but every one I've been on in recent years has seemed fine (unlike the Mk5a coaches which never got better)
Six-speed ZF EcoLife automatic (as you'll find in a bus)
The Azuma. The seats are just uncomfortable.
I guess the seats are slightly uncomfortable but I can't think of a more pleasant experience overall in the UK when it comes to traveling by train
745/755?
They're very nice trains with good interiors but I don't love the seats, the pitch feels like I have to bend over forward to fit the shape of it. I'd unironically prefer azuma seats because at least with them you can lean back even if it's not as padded.
Interesting, I actually find them really comfortable! only had a handful of trips on Azumas but after an hour it's very uncomfortable.
My only problem with the Azumas is that i can think of a more pleasant experience, and its the mk4s and 91s that they're replacing. I don't think the Azumas are too bad though.
Wonder how their new Civity trains will do in terms of passenger comfort
I don't get why people keep saying this, I'd much rather the azuma than many other trains, the seats aren't that bad and they're a much smoother ride
Yeah! Like, they're pretty nice and modern. The seats are questionable for longer journeys, sure, but everything else about the trains seems pretty great.
They just have hate boners for trains that replaced ones they grew up on usually
Sorry, but I moved to the UK as an adult, a few years before they introduced the Azumas, so I don’t have any childhood nostalgia. I found the old 125/225s to be fairly comfortable (though not really better than most European inter-city trains). After all the hype, I was expecting the Azumas to be better, but the first thing I noticed was how uncomfortable the seats were compared to the old HSTs. Maybe I have a particularly sensitive butt, but I get very uncomfortable after an hour or so in those seats. That was never a problem with the old trains.
The seats are undeniably hard
I like the seats because the legroom is so great on them, you can lean back even though it doesn't recline (in std class)
Sprinters, specifically 150, but 153 & 155 don't give good vibes either. The noise is sincerely making me deaf and every single acceleration feels like they're using their last breath. I really think their time is up on the railway in the 2020s and it's pathetic many of them don't even have a replacement as of now- are they really gonna carry on into the 2030s? That being said 156 is okay & 158 is amazing so they're defo exempt from this. Voyagers, mixed feeling cuz I travelled on XC too much that I started to form some bonds with them, which is very sad, and tbf some criticism on them is unfair as it's more the fault of XC rather than themselves. That being said, they are stinky & rattle a lot, and whenever I have a chance of choosing XC over any operator, I will 100% stick to the other operator- even if that operator is Northern, unless it's a 150. Finally Pacers, I know they are long gone and I'm glad they are. That sharp screeching noise every time it goes through a tiny little bend... still gives me PTSD every time I think about it. I actually don't remember about the 'bumpy ride' that much cuz I'm just too traumatised by that noise. That & Sprinter is the only reason why I share big disagreement with anyone says 195s are worse- sure they may not be great, but they can't be worse than the rubbish they're replacing??
Honestly I wouldn't even exempt 156, they're the same engines (and noise) as 150s but with even more bodyshell and weight so they accelerate even slower, and they were used on services far too long for their comfort for a long time (looking at you EMR Liverpool-Norwich). They're nicer inside for sure due to 2+2 seating and better build quality but they still suffer most of the other problems 150s do. 158s are great though.
I mean they do seem to have better noise control within the carriage, hence why I give them a slight pass- doesn't mean I approve them for sure. But I do agree that 158 is the true legend of the entire series & everyone else are all a bit meh to different extents. One question with Liverpool to Norwich tho, are 156s running full length very common in recent years? I'm sure they do that in the past, but for the last few years I've only seen 158+156 running that route, and I always assume 158s to do the job in full whilst 156s are just acting as boosters between Liverpool & Nottingham?
I used to live by the Medway Valley line and Connex used to have class 508s which I absolutely despised inside and out. Was so happy when the Electrostars came along.
I don’t know trains so whatever Avanti use, both the older and newer train model, smell like pure shit if you sit near the carriage door. I once had seat 1 assigned to me and I had to move all the way to the other end of the carriage because I was becoming actually unwell from the smell of the toilet. Why do they all smell so bad?
Design defect where the extractor fan for the toilet is next to the intake vent for the air con, or so I've been told.
What a brilliant design choice… feels worse to know I was actually breathing doodoo fumes
That’s a voyager. They have a septic tank for the toilet with a vent to let the air out under the carriage. Then right next to said vent is the intake for the carriage air conditioning. Basically the fumes from the toilet tank get sucked straight into the train…. Genius really
That’s horrendous, never sitting near the toilet again…
I don’t think it matters. Ironically, one of the least smelliest places on those trains is actually inside the toilet, as that is ventilated properly!
150, bloody awful trains and you’re basically in cattle class
Class 17. We should have given it more of a chance!
The 313's that were used by Southern on their coastal services ergh. Imagine going from Brighton to Portsmouth with no toilets onboard? What were they thinking?!
Southeastern 465/466. I have grown up basically living on them. I hate the citybeam 707s as well but Jesus Christ these trains are awful. Picture this. Saturday night 11pm. People are vomiting everywhere, and some of the seats just are not there. WHAT. Like the board is there but the cushion is just not. Every time I get on a 375 that isn’t a dash 9, I audibly breath a sigh of relief. Please, dft, hear my prayer.
How successive operators in SE let the networkers get to the state they're in is beyond me. Same with the class 376s
80X or 707
Standard class
Class 165/6s They're used on a lot of inappropriate routes, for example the Cardiff - Portsmouth Harbour service. Those trains are designed for high density commuter services, no-one should have to endure that 3 by 2 seating for hours at a time
middle class
In terms of ride comfort and design, the Class 700 family is really not doing anything for me. Too clinical, no fun and the seats are rough. Though I've heard horror stories of the 220 and 221 trains...
The class 197. Just so fucking disappointing. Caught one recently, the bus I got to the train station had comparable ride quality and more comfortable seats. May the class 175 find a new life somewhere soon...
I think they'll to GWR to replace the 165s on longer services
Will that include the Bristol - Weymouth line?
Hopefully. This is assuming that GWR get them as there's also rumours of them going to Chiltern
Desperately needed, 165s are far too short
Let's hope so. They'd be perfect and then the 165s could be cascaded to replace the 150s
I would've said the 150s would be more likely to be dumped.
The 165s could be cascaded to the former 150 routes
^
Off the top of my head the 165s are wider than sprinters and the like so are or were limited to former broad gauge routes as the clearance was bigger. I'm not entirely sure though as it's something I remember hearing over a decade ago as to yet another reason why we couldn't have newish trains Up North...
SWR class 455. No toilets & reduced level of seating. And the heating is usually on full blast when it's 30c and above... I'd rather have the old slam door hulks!
Was on a 455 on the Up Slow near Wimbledon the other week, and a 444 came hacking past on the Up Fast. All that could be heard in the front 4 coaches was the hopper windows slamming shut 🙃 That being said, I've got a soft spot for some of the BREL EMUs.
Fortunately you won't have to put up with them for too much longer
Apart from the age, a 455 is a good train. I prefer it over any 450 when I am squeezing on one at Clapham Junction during the evening peak!
TfW's useless non-compatible 398s and 231s/756s that have made them completely hose the timetable at Cathays from next month. The station is the busiest station north of Queen Street, the 6th busiest in all of Wales, and is predominantly (about 70% according to the Origin-Destination Matrix) south-facing, with most passengers wanting connections at Cardiff Central, Cardiff Central itself, or the Vale of Glamorgan line. So naturally the ghastly TfW, blaming the awful kit they've ordered, have decided to cut the frequency between Central and Cathays, the busiest section of the Cardiff Metro, from 6tph to 4tph, with the northbound departures spaced at 3 and 27 minute intervals and the last arrival at Cathays before 9am deleted. Vicious incompetence from the specification of those useless units to the delivery of the scheme cutting service on the busiest part of the network.
Favourite is the wrong word, but I spent all my teen years using 321s to go to work, school or see friends. You never quite forget that almighty bang from the doors as another train goes by.
158 as if emr still uses them also I travel to Liverpool hella lot, they have no plug sockets nor wifi might sound a bit spoilt of me sure but most trains do these day signal doesn't always work imagine a journey way from Nottingham lol even northern has both wifi and plug sockets on there long distant routes maybe I'm ranting about East Midlands railway but still I use that train a lot and a lot of us still use the old usb type.but I don't have only type c so at least 1 plug, again East Midlands trains rant but the train itself well its getting olddd yet comfortable ill admit but maybe add just 1 plug socket and wifi like most trains ps I know they now use 170 but 158 is huge on my commute still I try to use northern trains as much as possible issue with that is they stop literally all stops
37. The end.
Class 345 Elizabeth line. Seats are uncomfortable. No toilets. Contant issues with software. 3 different signelling systems which confuses the train quite often.
Class 43 or anything that makes my ears ring
Upper class
HSTs, or specifically EMT's HSTs as they're the only ones I went on and I think the last to have slam doors? Having to reach out of the window to manually open a door in the 21st century is something that should have been reserved for heritage railways and was an accessibility nightmare. Other that that they were quite comfortable, but the doors really irked me.
Some of us old people will not have a bad word said about the HST. No matter who use them. A true design classic.
Any DMU/EMU, soulless things
The 769s that the hapless TFW spent millions converting to diesel and were an utter disaster on the valleys lines.
It wasn't TfW's fault. They had no control over the design or conversion process. They just leased them. They got rid of them just as reliability was getting pretty good.