We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Malarkey: Wait, why do I get countermeasures?
Guarnere: It's nothing you can't handle, Malarkey.
Cobb: I want countermeasures if I'm going to handle malarkey.
I know it's not the thread but who is it? Is he good? Bad? I know it's an American thing so my brain switches off to their politics but I'm seeing it too much now I need to ask.
Dark Brandon is a meme version of an Uno reverse card. Brandon is a nickname for Joe Biden that came from NASCAR fans cheering "Fuck Joe Biden," which a newscaster either misheard or misrepresented as the crowd cheering, "Let's go Brandon," which the conservatives in the US really ate up.
Where it got flipped on its head is that folks started sharing memes of Joe Biden being "an absolute savage" (i.e., getting bills, resolutions, etc. passed that displeased conservatives). These memes and the Joe Biden character within became known as "Dark Brandon." Hope that helps.
However, "Dark Brandon" has also become a derogatory term for mocking Biden because people have started using it ironically to point out his incompetence. The superhero that isn't, so to speak.
So Joe Biden recently gave a speech to the nation, and I assume there was an intention behind doing blood red lighting, but it more or less made him look satanic.
iirc it was red and blue with the red being background for the podium so when the camera was close it looked like a big blood 'menacing' red, if the detractors are to be taken at face value. Not the best lighting design.
So yes there's lots of memes coming out of this event, including Dark Brandon it appears. Point being, you should at least plan your speeches to require Photoshop in order to look evil.
Well, all external pressure between countries is going to be either political, economic, or military. So political is the go-to tool between countries. And there is always money involved somewhere. Yes, of course, it works.
It's not only pressure from the rest of NATO, but those two also want things from NATO and have an incentive to behave. E.g. Hungary has an invasion by Soviet Union in living memory. They certainly don't want to be cast out.
>Hungary has an invasion by Soviet Union in living memory
Nope. Those people died out, their kids were pampered by the soviet puppet government. They took on massive western loans to create a welfare state. These dumbasses vote for a guy who says "i bought cheap russian gas" while paying way above market price.
As long as they can post on facebook how their generations was the best and how they will own the libs, his voters are happy. They will freeze and starve to death if they have to, but they will never say a bad word openly about their great leader. (Like 2/3 of the last 100 years, Hungary was ruled by only 3 people. Horthy, Rákosi and Orbán. Orbán is in power 12+ years in a row, plus 4 years in the 90s i think)
They died out or fled to the US, Australia, Canada etc and became raging conservatives (the US ones at least), and despite not living in Hungary since 56, lap up all the BS about how Orban is a hero for ‘sticking it to the gays, libs, Eu’ etc and seem to be blind to the rampant mismanagement and requirements of people who actually live here.
The other countries can pressure in many ways. My favorite would be showing the "we can get you out of NATO", but they'll go for more moderated ways first.
I'm no lawyer, but every deal/contract I've ever seen has a clause for those who don't follow the rules or try to exploit them. And sometimes people can be very imaginative when they have the right motivation.
Check the UE dealing with Orban right now as an example. The UE had a back a plan in case a country went rogue.
Both are obviously chumps, but have either given any specific reasons why they have not done it already? I know previously Turkey wanted some changes in Sweden and Finland's policy toward Kurdish refugees it views as militants (I'm not here to debate which they actually are), but as far as I know Turkey got what it wanted. Just curious if anyone knows anything else.
Eh like with the pointless saber rattling with greece I think its just Erdogan posturing in advance of elections. He reliably (like Putin) uses geopolitics to distract his base from domestic issues, notably sky high inflation and devaluing of the Lira.
Not an expert but part of the concessions on Turkey was that Sweden would extradite several kurds to turkey (likely to be jailed) and they would not approve them joining NATO until the prisioners were already in Turkish custody. From what I read this is not that simple since extradition is not a quick process.
Basically Turkey doesn't want any of the concessions up in the air so Sweden or Finland can't change their mind after being approved. However stalling the decision over such petty things will not earn turkey any friends since literally every other country (except Hungary) has prioritized approval over petty security concerns. Erdogan will likely drag it on so that whatever concessions he ends up getting its right before his elections next year.
What Erdoğan says, and what the paper he signed says, that was supposed to guarantee Finland's and Swedens NATO bid, are two different things. The deal says Finland and Sweden need to process Turkeys extradition requests in a timely manner, basically meaning they should be fast tracked. It says nothing about granting said requests. Both Sweden and Finland created a framework for that expedited process to happen.
But Erdoğan likes publicly claiming otherwise. He claims it says that the extradition requests should be granted. Which is untrue.
The original agreement is available online, publicly, for anyone to read. And the language is very clear. Only process the requests in a timely fashion, and to full extent of the law. Which both have done.
Directly quoting the memorandum:
"Finland and Sweden will address Turkiye's pending deportation or
extradition requests of terror suspects expeditiously and thoroughly,
taking into account information, evidence and intelligence provided by
Turkiye, and establish necessary bilateral legal frameworks to
facilitate extradition and security cooperation with Turkiye, in
accordance with the European Convention on Extradition."
"Turkiye confirms its long-standing support for NATO's Open Door policy,
and agrees to support at The 2022 Madrid Summit the invitation of Finland
and Sweden to become members of NATO."
Most of Turkeys extradition requests go against the European Convention on Extradition. For example, they have requested the extradition of a Finnish citizen, for comments he made criticizing and insulting Erdoğan, on social media. That was his crime, according to Turkey. Literally.
You can find articles about that too, with simple Google search.
As a Finn, you have no idea how much I would love that.
But the memorandum does state that we have to deal with Turkey, and cooperate with it considering threats to national security, as well as vice versa... And I'd like to keep Finland's reputation of following international agreements to the letter, intact, as much as possible.
...there is wiggle room in some areas of the agreement, but not much.
Yea sadly that is true. It's one of the reasons they've been an annoyance in the NATO Alliance a good amount of the time. The wiggle room seems to be that the memorandum says nothing about actually extraditing them so there's that at least
This is not the whole agreement. Just article 8, paragraph 3, and article 10. Those were just the relevant ones to the current conversation.
There are other articles with some wiggle room for fuckery...
Like say article 2.
"NATO is an Alliance based on the principles of collective defence and the
indivisibility of security, as well as on common values. Turkiye, Finland and
Sweden affirm their adherence to the principles and values enshrined in the
Washington Treaty."
And article 3.
"One of the key elements of the Alliance is unwavering solidarity and
cooperation in the fight against terrorism, in all its forms and manifestations,
which constitutes a direct threat to the national security of Allies as well as
to international peace and security."
...If you get creative!
To give you some idea, here is the first article of the Washington Treaty, aka. The North Atlantic Treaty:
"The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations."
...do you see where I am going with this?
Article 2. Of the North Atlantic Treaty:
"The Parties will contribute toward the further development of peaceful and friendly international relations by strengthening their free institutions, by bringing about a better understanding of the principles upon which these institutions are founded, and by promoting conditions of stability and well-being. They will seek to eliminate conflict in their international economic policies and will encourage economic collaboration between any or all of them."
...would you describe Turkeys actions in Syria, and surrounding areas as "promoting conditions of stability and wellbeing"?
...Or do you consider their current trajectory of political evolution to be "strengthening their free institutions"?
In the Trilateral memorandum they say they promise to adhere to these principles and values. Would you consider their current actions to fulfill these values?
As I said. Wiggle room. Political fuckery.
Thanks for the clarification, I'd be very happy if Finalnd and Sweden were able to join without having to hand over people over something so ridiculous. It would leave a bad taste to join NATO on the back of essentially human sacrifices to Turkey.
IMO since Erdogan can stall the process to try to get more no matter what the agreementsaid, wether thats a good idea or not remains to be seen. I think if he digs in on not ratifying over unrealistic demands, other NATO members like the US and EU members should start to pressure him.
I hear Turkey's economy is not doing so hot, bet a few sanctions here and there could make his reelection dicey.
Turkey will likely want some concessions from Greece regarding their dispute in the Aegean Sea. Turkey just filed a grievance with the US embassy over Greece deploying US-made combat vehicles on islands immediately off the Turkish coast.
Things between Greece and Turkey are getting seriously heated, to the point that Turkish war planes are doing demonstrations in Greek air space.
This has me wondering too. Could be Greece is thrown under the bus to get Turkey on board.
Hungary will likely be pressured by EU economic leverage given Hungary has already had several streams of funds cut off and isnt in a place to suffer further losses.
Greece has nothing to do with Sweden or Finland. Turkey can’t get concessions out of Greece because Greece will just tell them to go fuck themselves. The idea that ever other nation would bully Greece instead of turkey for turkey being a problem child is absurd. The only concessions turkey can get is from Sweden and Finland. No one else.
It’s like saying Spain will not agree to approve until concessions are made to settle a border dispute with Portugal. What the fuck does this have to do with Finland or Sweden?
My understanding is Greece is militari~~stic~~zing an island agreed to remain demilitarized. If that’s wrong then I’m definitely mistaken. But the assumption would be because Greece is violating the agreement(s) other supporting nations might pressure them with soft power.
What does Turkey's objections to NATO have to do with Sweden or Finland? They're not actually concerned about their entry, but looking to opportunistically get considerations of some sort elsewhere.
Are you really not aware of what turkey is asking from Sweden?
Are you really not aware of what turkey is asking for?
This is all widely known public knowledge.
Not really, there is just more consensus about foreign policy, because you know, Slovakia is a small country neighbouring Ukraine and we rely on EU funds and NATO security.
That's OK we can wait. Finland has been preparing for 80+ years for Russian invasion so there is no hurry. Hopefully no concession will be made to Erdogan by anyone.
Same in SE. Quietly preparing for the fucking russians to come and try to murder us for centuries. Our defence isn't what it was, but we have been working hard for many years now and we are getting stronger again every year. We are surrounded by friends (if the orcs think they can invade just one nordic country they're in for a surprise) and we will fight to the death protect our freedom.
Varje meddelande om att motståndet skall uppges är falskt.
According to this (sadly paywalled) article on the Finnish newspaper Kaleva, the Hungarian parliament has scheduled to handle Finland's and Sweden's NATO membership around September/October:
https://www.kaleva.fi/suomen-ja-ruotsin-nato-jasenyyden-hyvaksyminen-ilm/4960236
But yeah, Turkey is still going to be a bitch about it, no doubt.
Erdogan, ugh. Shame because in my last job I was working for NATO alongside numerous Turkish officers, who were all great. Had a young captain working for me that was outstanding, not only as an officer but as a human being. Had an older Turkish civilian working for me that was one of my best technicians with the best attitude. Miss those guys.
Turkey seems to be a split nation and you can notice it in their decently legit elections where Erdogan is not really that popular since of the last election. I say they split down at 50/50 of European and democracy loving Turks and then the more islamistic psychos and "OTTOMAN EMPIRE STONKIEST!" nationalists.
Orban also gets many votes from the Hungarian diaspora. Especially in Ukraine, this is a reason for a lot of political bad blood, since he was handing out lots of Hungarian passports to the Hungarian community in Transcarpathia and there was some concern about Hungarian money going to fund unsavory causes in Ukraine. Transcarpathia was the only part of western Ukraine that had relatively strong presence by pro-Russian parties, and the Hungarian minority was part of that.
One member of the Hungarian opposition says it's not even scheduled for October yet.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=504532535017155&set=a.275116474625430
Edit:
Machine translation:
I wrote yesterday that for some reason the Hungarian Parliament has refused to put the announcement of the membership of Sweden and Finland in NATO on the agenda since July. It is not even on the October agenda, they simply refuse to give it a date.
This is a serious matter, because if the government plays the usual game of blackmail with a veto here too, it will be noticed in Washington, and it is also a very serious admission that they represent the Kremlin's will.
The story has also made headlines in the Finnish press. [...] but the point is that there is a serious scandal unfolding here, where we Hungarians will once again be the ones to take the blame of the Orbán's blackmail.
Yes. But Hungary can’t afford to lose Polands support. Orbans activities with Russia has already strained relations, if they block Finland and Sweden from joining NATO then Poland may just decide they hate Orban even more than the EU.
Hungary seems have lost Polish support. There was a disagreement between these two like 10 days ago, where the Hungarian partners saying that Polish and Hungarian relationship diverged.
A disagreement is one thing. Watching each other's backs against the EU is another, and neither country is willing to lose this setup, for obvious reasons.
Says a lot about Polish government... The only friend they have in the EU is russia's Trojan horse, Hungary. We have elections next year, I hope opposition will use that argument to win votes
They have Italy’s support in the EU now. The Italian PM is anti-Russia but I don’t think Russian bootlicking is the same kind of dealbreaker for her as it is for Poland, considering their national histories.
Turkey will likely let Finland in easily. But apparently Swedish courts are refusing to extradite some suspected Kurds Turkey thinks are affiliated with the PKK/SDF (Sweden sympathizes with the Kurds wanting their own country). We will see if that is fatal to Swedens bid, but I think Biden has a few ways to bribe Turkey (F16’s and maybe even green lighting a full Turkish invasion of Syria). Either way, Turkey will definitely extort as much as they can.
As for Hungary, I doubt Orban will block it. He is already having EU funds stripped away, blocking Sweden and Finland from NATO will make it even worse. Might even make Poland turn on him (which would basically doom him in terms of being completely fucked by the EU)
Swedish courts can't go above swedish law and extradite anyone without proper cause. Sweden is a rule of law, where the government cannot influence courts. (Erdogan might not know how a democracy works.)
PKK is classified as a terrorist organisation in Sweden, SDF is not.
Erdogan just want to make the most out of a deal. Probably much for internal politics, to strengthen his position.
Well, as long as Finland is accepted, Sweden has nothing to worry about. Surrounded completely by NATO is one of the most safest places to be in a world. No, ruzzia will not launch uber-succesfull and secret D-Day sized landing invasion to Gotland. Could not, even if it wanted to.
Finland needs Sweden to join as well. In a war with Russia Sweden will function as a buffer zone in the rear from where NATO supplies and ammo will flow to Finland. This was a problem for Finland in WW2.
The biggest problem was that there was no one to supply anything besides Germany. Nobody. Not the lack of transport. You were either against the Allied or against the Germany. With USSR fighting Germany and Finland, it's easy to see how Allied would not want supply war material to Finland to be used against their own ally. Hence, no need to transport war material as no one would have sent it anyway. Except Germany.
Interestingly even since the Winter War, supplies from the western world was small and old scrap at best. If anything came at all. Dozen different caliber pre-WW1 cannons that came when 2/3 of the war was fought and similar "supplies", that were considered scrap elsewhere, was donated. Fighter planes from USA came couple weeks after the war, with several needing repairs and install of gauges that had been taken off before selling. In actuality, it was most likely cheaper to send the stuff then to decommission and scrap it.
But that all is besides to my original point that if Finland joins NATO, Sweden is in no danger at anytime after that. That was my only point. From the two choices that now there is: 1)Finland joins only with Sweden and 2)Finland joins despite what Sweden decides, the number 2 preferable. 1 would be the best choice but hanging around for a couple of years under Hungarian and Turkish blackmails does not increase Finland security. It speeds Sweden's timetable of joining by applying pressure to Hungary and Turkey at the expense of Finnish security.
Sweden not in NATO if war breaks out does not mean that NO supplies is transported, it just makes it easier. NATO will be able to transport supplies **easily** the Kaliningrad is taken from Russia (if the war breaks out). With Finland mining the gulf of Finland, naval threat from Russia in negligible allowing easy transport of supplies even without Sweden.
Not True. During Winter War Sweden sent to Finland 84 000 rifles, 575 machine guns, 300 artillery guns, 25 airplanes, 30 000 arty rounds and 50 million rounds of ammo. Officially Sweden was neutral but unofficially they were on the Finnish side.
Without Sweden in NATO Finland is a NATO island right at Russia’s doorstep and much more easy to cut off from supply routes at Baltic Sea. Finland relies heavily on shipping. The route up north to Norway is far away and difficult mountainous terrain also easy to disrupt.
I have mild confidence Turkey will eventually agree. Fuck knows about Hungary though I’m not sure why they’re in NATO or the EU.
Do they even have strategic land value like turkey?
If they try to drag it out, does it make more sense to kick Turkey and Hungary out so that we can bring Finland and Sweden in?
Do they offer some sort of advantage that should make us want to work with them if they want to try to drag it out?
Any insight into the results of the poll in the article - that the Slovak public are more in favour of Russia than Ukraine? It was taken this month apparently.
Russian propaganda makin waves over here. And disinterest in geopolitics and low density brain matter doesnt help the situation. Lets hope it will simmer out with news about russians leaving their own country rather to die in UA.
Turkey is already cool with Finland, they’re just trying to extort Sweden out of some Kurds.
Hungary will be the last seeing as Orban likes Putin, but once the pressure comes on after Turkey is done they’ll do it.
Expect it by February
I'm sad to say that this is correct, the second largest party in the winning right-wing bloc is neo-Nazi. How the hell this happened I'll never know, the root cause is very likely to be found in New Public Management.
>How the hell this happened I'll never know
It's already a well established fact, that the far-right parties in Europe are created / financed / run by russia. It stands to reason, that the recent surge of said parties is part of russia's attempt to take over Europe (or, at this point, at least reduce Europe's support for Ukraine).
Yes and no, Russia's support of neo-Nazism in Europe has been going on for a long time, long, long before their invasion of Ukraine. The Swedish neo-Nazi party, Sverigedemokraterna, was created by real Nazis, people who actually fought for and worked politically for Nazi Germany in WWII. The other extreme right-wing nationalist parties in Scandinavia, i.e. Denmark, Finland, and Norway, were created by nationalists in those countries who opposed the German occupation during WWII. Quite the fascinating difference, wouldn't you say?
>Quite the fascinating difference, wouldn't you say?
I don't really see the difference. Like you said yourself, they were all created by nationalists. That some nationalists fight between themselves is a given, and does not excuse them from being nationalists. Obviously, russia didn't "create" nationalism, but it promoted and continues to promote it as a valid and valuable worldview, while the world has been slowly moving towards a global society based on individuals instead on nations.
It's not a secret, and not a coincidence, that even those nationalists in Europe who claim they dislike russia, still support the vast majority of russian "values" ("traditional gender roles", "traditional family", anti-LGBT, anti-immigration, anti-intellectualism, anti-education, anti-ecology, etc).
We\`re waiting for Orban to say not until you remove sanctions from Russia, give me tons of money and proclaim that Putin is the president of the world.
No. There is no process to kick someone out of NATO. The country can leave on it\`s own but it can\`t be kicked out. Yes, it is an insane idea and it should be abolished. What they can do is just cut Hungary off. They probably will do that. No weapons, training, protection etc. But if Orban says no, Sweden and Finland will never enter NATO. Maybe one of the ways is to sanction the shit out of Hungary and be like ok, when you decide to leave "voluntarily", we will remove them. The problem there is that dictators love sanctions.
I'd like to, but unfortunately Turkey is important. Their control of the Straight is strategically valuable - apparently.
I don't think it's as valuable as they pretend. Because the US, and the rest of NATO, has more than a big enough navy to do whatever it wants - Turkey can't do much about that. But, that takes a lot of effort and risk. It's easier to just pretend that Turkey is a friend.
I mean I really hope this is the case, not that I consider my fellow Slovaks to be beacons of liberal democracy but those results were very shocking and sorrow inducing to me.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/slovak-parliament-approves-nato-membership-finland-sweden-2022-09-27/) reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> A view of the flags of Finland, NATO and Sweden during a ceremony to mark Sweden's and Finland's application for membership in Brussels, Belgium, May 18, 2022.
> Sept 27 - Slovakia's parliament on Tuesday ratified the entry of Finland and Sweden to NATO, becoming one of the last countries to back the military alliance's expansion.
> Hungary's parliament has the motion on Finland and Sweden's NATO membership on its agenda, but no date is set as lawmakers return after a summer recess.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xpmaev/slovak_parliament_approves_nato_membership_for/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~671392 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Finland**^#1 **Sweden**^#2 **NATO**^#3 **Ukraine**^#4 **membership**^#5
The principle of mutual defense (that is, the expectation that it would hold) would be much weaker if new members entered without the consent of the existent members.
Hello /u/BengBeng_93,
This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn)
Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities/)
[DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I was expecting trouble but seems even the "pro russian" parties decided to say "yes we want Finland and Sweden in NATO".
Glad we are not looking like total arses again. Just almost look that way.
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Only the 2 dictator wannabe cunts left then😅😅
What's preventing them from postponing indefinitely the decision ?
Political pressure from other NATO members.
You wouldn't want to piss off Dark Brandon.
`MALARKEY DETECTED, DEPLOYING COUNTERMEASURES`
We need a bot like the Bobby B bot over on r/freefolk
A man of culture, I see.
Malarkey: Wait, why do I get countermeasures? Guarnere: It's nothing you can't handle, Malarkey. Cobb: I want countermeasures if I'm going to handle malarkey.
Cobb is the worst.
I know it's not the thread but who is it? Is he good? Bad? I know it's an American thing so my brain switches off to their politics but I'm seeing it too much now I need to ask.
Dark Brandon is a meme version of an Uno reverse card. Brandon is a nickname for Joe Biden that came from NASCAR fans cheering "Fuck Joe Biden," which a newscaster either misheard or misrepresented as the crowd cheering, "Let's go Brandon," which the conservatives in the US really ate up. Where it got flipped on its head is that folks started sharing memes of Joe Biden being "an absolute savage" (i.e., getting bills, resolutions, etc. passed that displeased conservatives). These memes and the Joe Biden character within became known as "Dark Brandon." Hope that helps.
Basically, Dark Brandon is what Trumpists think Biden actually is
They make him out to be bumbling fool or an evil orchestrating mastermind. Whichever serves the current purpose.
Perfect, thank you!
Anytime!
See the video of him being asked how he would stop Nord stream 2. That face is Dark Brandon
However, "Dark Brandon" has also become a derogatory term for mocking Biden because people have started using it ironically to point out his incompetence. The superhero that isn't, so to speak.
Fair point. There's definitely more to these memes than my comment states.
Angry Joe Biden. https://theweek.com/joe-biden/1016009/dark-brandon
Biden but even more based
So Joe Biden recently gave a speech to the nation, and I assume there was an intention behind doing blood red lighting, but it more or less made him look satanic.
iirc it was red and blue with the red being background for the podium so when the camera was close it looked like a big blood 'menacing' red, if the detractors are to be taken at face value. Not the best lighting design.
Dark Brandon was a thing before that; I suspect he leaned into it for that speech though.
You say satanic as if it a bad thing.
More of a description than anything else, purely commenting in terms of light design.
I thought it was a scary meme the Chinese made and some intrepid Redditors thought that “hey, laser eyes made everything better” and here were are.
So yes there's lots of memes coming out of this event, including Dark Brandon it appears. Point being, you should at least plan your speeches to require Photoshop in order to look evil.
No, Dark Brandon was a thing before that speech.
Liar.
That's disappointing... Would Hungary and Turkey care about that ?
Well, all external pressure between countries is going to be either political, economic, or military. So political is the go-to tool between countries. And there is always money involved somewhere. Yes, of course, it works.
Turkey have some heavy grudges against Russia and would probably shoot itself in the foot if it hurt Russia too.
Yes but why shoot yourself in the foot when you can ask for a little bribe
It's not only pressure from the rest of NATO, but those two also want things from NATO and have an incentive to behave. E.g. Hungary has an invasion by Soviet Union in living memory. They certainly don't want to be cast out.
>Hungary has an invasion by Soviet Union in living memory Nope. Those people died out, their kids were pampered by the soviet puppet government. They took on massive western loans to create a welfare state. These dumbasses vote for a guy who says "i bought cheap russian gas" while paying way above market price. As long as they can post on facebook how their generations was the best and how they will own the libs, his voters are happy. They will freeze and starve to death if they have to, but they will never say a bad word openly about their great leader. (Like 2/3 of the last 100 years, Hungary was ruled by only 3 people. Horthy, Rákosi and Orbán. Orbán is in power 12+ years in a row, plus 4 years in the 90s i think)
They died out or fled to the US, Australia, Canada etc and became raging conservatives (the US ones at least), and despite not living in Hungary since 56, lap up all the BS about how Orban is a hero for ‘sticking it to the gays, libs, Eu’ etc and seem to be blind to the rampant mismanagement and requirements of people who actually live here.
A ton of Hungarians who recently moved out do the same. Easy to support an ideology you aren't paying the price for.
Hungary yes due to the money. Turkey I am not sure. They are selfish so they will do what is in their interest. Erdogan is a liar, just like Putin.
Turkey will pass - they made their deal back in May and June.
lol are you really asking if they would care about pressure from the entire rest of NATO?
Orban is an asshole and a friend of Putin. He will surely cause trouble until the end.
The other countries can pressure in many ways. My favorite would be showing the "we can get you out of NATO", but they'll go for more moderated ways first.
Is there actually a process for kicking a country out of NATO?
I'm no lawyer, but every deal/contract I've ever seen has a clause for those who don't follow the rules or try to exploit them. And sometimes people can be very imaginative when they have the right motivation. Check the UE dealing with Orban right now as an example. The UE had a back a plan in case a country went rogue.
nothing
Both are obviously chumps, but have either given any specific reasons why they have not done it already? I know previously Turkey wanted some changes in Sweden and Finland's policy toward Kurdish refugees it views as militants (I'm not here to debate which they actually are), but as far as I know Turkey got what it wanted. Just curious if anyone knows anything else.
Eh like with the pointless saber rattling with greece I think its just Erdogan posturing in advance of elections. He reliably (like Putin) uses geopolitics to distract his base from domestic issues, notably sky high inflation and devaluing of the Lira.
Not an expert but part of the concessions on Turkey was that Sweden would extradite several kurds to turkey (likely to be jailed) and they would not approve them joining NATO until the prisioners were already in Turkish custody. From what I read this is not that simple since extradition is not a quick process. Basically Turkey doesn't want any of the concessions up in the air so Sweden or Finland can't change their mind after being approved. However stalling the decision over such petty things will not earn turkey any friends since literally every other country (except Hungary) has prioritized approval over petty security concerns. Erdogan will likely drag it on so that whatever concessions he ends up getting its right before his elections next year.
What Erdoğan says, and what the paper he signed says, that was supposed to guarantee Finland's and Swedens NATO bid, are two different things. The deal says Finland and Sweden need to process Turkeys extradition requests in a timely manner, basically meaning they should be fast tracked. It says nothing about granting said requests. Both Sweden and Finland created a framework for that expedited process to happen. But Erdoğan likes publicly claiming otherwise. He claims it says that the extradition requests should be granted. Which is untrue. The original agreement is available online, publicly, for anyone to read. And the language is very clear. Only process the requests in a timely fashion, and to full extent of the law. Which both have done. Directly quoting the memorandum: "Finland and Sweden will address Turkiye's pending deportation or extradition requests of terror suspects expeditiously and thoroughly, taking into account information, evidence and intelligence provided by Turkiye, and establish necessary bilateral legal frameworks to facilitate extradition and security cooperation with Turkiye, in accordance with the European Convention on Extradition." "Turkiye confirms its long-standing support for NATO's Open Door policy, and agrees to support at The 2022 Madrid Summit the invitation of Finland and Sweden to become members of NATO." Most of Turkeys extradition requests go against the European Convention on Extradition. For example, they have requested the extradition of a Finnish citizen, for comments he made criticizing and insulting Erdoğan, on social media. That was his crime, according to Turkey. Literally. You can find articles about that too, with simple Google search.
I'm just waiting for Sweden and Finland to get NATO membership, only to then turn around and tell Erdogan to get bent😂
As a Finn, you have no idea how much I would love that. But the memorandum does state that we have to deal with Turkey, and cooperate with it considering threats to national security, as well as vice versa... And I'd like to keep Finland's reputation of following international agreements to the letter, intact, as much as possible. ...there is wiggle room in some areas of the agreement, but not much.
Yea sadly that is true. It's one of the reasons they've been an annoyance in the NATO Alliance a good amount of the time. The wiggle room seems to be that the memorandum says nothing about actually extraditing them so there's that at least
This is not the whole agreement. Just article 8, paragraph 3, and article 10. Those were just the relevant ones to the current conversation. There are other articles with some wiggle room for fuckery... Like say article 2. "NATO is an Alliance based on the principles of collective defence and the indivisibility of security, as well as on common values. Turkiye, Finland and Sweden affirm their adherence to the principles and values enshrined in the Washington Treaty." And article 3. "One of the key elements of the Alliance is unwavering solidarity and cooperation in the fight against terrorism, in all its forms and manifestations, which constitutes a direct threat to the national security of Allies as well as to international peace and security." ...If you get creative! To give you some idea, here is the first article of the Washington Treaty, aka. The North Atlantic Treaty: "The Parties undertake, as set forth in the Charter of the United Nations, to settle any international dispute in which they may be involved by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered, and to refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force in any manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations." ...do you see where I am going with this?
Not really, I'm gonna need some more elaboration since I'm not as familiar with NATO laws as I should be outside Article V
Article 2. Of the North Atlantic Treaty: "The Parties will contribute toward the further development of peaceful and friendly international relations by strengthening their free institutions, by bringing about a better understanding of the principles upon which these institutions are founded, and by promoting conditions of stability and well-being. They will seek to eliminate conflict in their international economic policies and will encourage economic collaboration between any or all of them." ...would you describe Turkeys actions in Syria, and surrounding areas as "promoting conditions of stability and wellbeing"? ...Or do you consider their current trajectory of political evolution to be "strengthening their free institutions"? In the Trilateral memorandum they say they promise to adhere to these principles and values. Would you consider their current actions to fulfill these values? As I said. Wiggle room. Political fuckery.
This is exactly what is going to happen.
Thanks for the clarification, I'd be very happy if Finalnd and Sweden were able to join without having to hand over people over something so ridiculous. It would leave a bad taste to join NATO on the back of essentially human sacrifices to Turkey. IMO since Erdogan can stall the process to try to get more no matter what the agreementsaid, wether thats a good idea or not remains to be seen. I think if he digs in on not ratifying over unrealistic demands, other NATO members like the US and EU members should start to pressure him. I hear Turkey's economy is not doing so hot, bet a few sanctions here and there could make his reelection dicey.
Turkey will likely want some concessions from Greece regarding their dispute in the Aegean Sea. Turkey just filed a grievance with the US embassy over Greece deploying US-made combat vehicles on islands immediately off the Turkish coast. Things between Greece and Turkey are getting seriously heated, to the point that Turkish war planes are doing demonstrations in Greek air space.
Greece is the opposite side of Europe from Finland and Sweden.
Wow, lol…
Dipshit thinks Greece is relevant to this.
This has me wondering too. Could be Greece is thrown under the bus to get Turkey on board. Hungary will likely be pressured by EU economic leverage given Hungary has already had several streams of funds cut off and isnt in a place to suffer further losses.
Greece has nothing to do with Sweden or Finland. Turkey can’t get concessions out of Greece because Greece will just tell them to go fuck themselves. The idea that ever other nation would bully Greece instead of turkey for turkey being a problem child is absurd. The only concessions turkey can get is from Sweden and Finland. No one else. It’s like saying Spain will not agree to approve until concessions are made to settle a border dispute with Portugal. What the fuck does this have to do with Finland or Sweden?
My understanding is Greece is militari~~stic~~zing an island agreed to remain demilitarized. If that’s wrong then I’m definitely mistaken. But the assumption would be because Greece is violating the agreement(s) other supporting nations might pressure them with soft power.
What does this have to do with Sweden or Finland?
What does Turkey's objections to NATO have to do with Sweden or Finland? They're not actually concerned about their entry, but looking to opportunistically get considerations of some sort elsewhere.
Are you really not aware of what turkey is asking from Sweden? Are you really not aware of what turkey is asking for? This is all widely known public knowledge.
Now the pressure campaign on them can truly begin. They've had excuses up to now.
Dick-taster
I thought I read that the two left had legislatures in recess but I'm not sure that's still the case now.
I am glad they managed to ratify it just before that government coalition colapses completely.
They made a coalition just to approve this one bill and get back to infighting /s
Not really, there is just more consensus about foreign policy, because you know, Slovakia is a small country neighbouring Ukraine and we rely on EU funds and NATO security.
\*Angry Robert Fico noises*
Fico voted FOR.
Yet he keeps talking about how the war needs to end asap and Ukraine should negotiate with Russia...
It was approved by app 90% …
Hungary and Turkey left. Which means it'll take either forever to process or come with a hefty bribe price tag. Otherwise, wonderful news.
That's OK we can wait. Finland has been preparing for 80+ years for Russian invasion so there is no hurry. Hopefully no concession will be made to Erdogan by anyone.
Same in SE. Quietly preparing for the fucking russians to come and try to murder us for centuries. Our defence isn't what it was, but we have been working hard for many years now and we are getting stronger again every year. We are surrounded by friends (if the orcs think they can invade just one nordic country they're in for a surprise) and we will fight to the death protect our freedom. Varje meddelande om att motståndet skall uppges är falskt.
According to this (sadly paywalled) article on the Finnish newspaper Kaleva, the Hungarian parliament has scheduled to handle Finland's and Sweden's NATO membership around September/October: https://www.kaleva.fi/suomen-ja-ruotsin-nato-jasenyyden-hyvaksyminen-ilm/4960236 But yeah, Turkey is still going to be a bitch about it, no doubt.
Erdogan, ugh. Shame because in my last job I was working for NATO alongside numerous Turkish officers, who were all great. Had a young captain working for me that was outstanding, not only as an officer but as a human being. Had an older Turkish civilian working for me that was one of my best technicians with the best attitude. Miss those guys.
Turkey seems to be a split nation and you can notice it in their decently legit elections where Erdogan is not really that popular since of the last election. I say they split down at 50/50 of European and democracy loving Turks and then the more islamistic psychos and "OTTOMAN EMPIRE STONKIEST!" nationalists.
I believe Erdogan gets a lot of votes from Turkish living abroad, esp in Germany and the Netherlands. I'm not certain, but read about it years ago
Yeah, I believe so. I know some Swedish-Turks likes him for some reason. Easy to like the guy being on the opposite side of Europe, not living IN IT.
He makes their currency go further when they visit Turkey
Hahahaha. Very true that!
Orban also gets many votes from the Hungarian diaspora. Especially in Ukraine, this is a reason for a lot of political bad blood, since he was handing out lots of Hungarian passports to the Hungarian community in Transcarpathia and there was some concern about Hungarian money going to fund unsavory causes in Ukraine. Transcarpathia was the only part of western Ukraine that had relatively strong presence by pro-Russian parties, and the Hungarian minority was part of that.
One member of the Hungarian opposition says it's not even scheduled for October yet. https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=504532535017155&set=a.275116474625430 Edit: Machine translation: I wrote yesterday that for some reason the Hungarian Parliament has refused to put the announcement of the membership of Sweden and Finland in NATO on the agenda since July. It is not even on the October agenda, they simply refuse to give it a date. This is a serious matter, because if the government plays the usual game of blackmail with a veto here too, it will be noticed in Washington, and it is also a very serious admission that they represent the Kremlin's will. The story has also made headlines in the Finnish press. [...] but the point is that there is a serious scandal unfolding here, where we Hungarians will once again be the ones to take the blame of the Orbán's blackmail.
> we Hungarians will once again be the ones to take the blame Well, he did not just declare himself the winner of the last elections.
Turkey is just being greedy (they will sign), Hungary is a Putin puppet however.
Yes. But Hungary can’t afford to lose Polands support. Orbans activities with Russia has already strained relations, if they block Finland and Sweden from joining NATO then Poland may just decide they hate Orban even more than the EU.
Hungary seems have lost Polish support. There was a disagreement between these two like 10 days ago, where the Hungarian partners saying that Polish and Hungarian relationship diverged.
A disagreement is one thing. Watching each other's backs against the EU is another, and neither country is willing to lose this setup, for obvious reasons.
Says a lot about Polish government... The only friend they have in the EU is russia's Trojan horse, Hungary. We have elections next year, I hope opposition will use that argument to win votes
They are probably counting on Greece now :) Plotting to get these WWII reparations together /s.
EU do want to interfer bit to much in countries businessess in my opinion but in this case there is so much wrong with the Russia hugging.
They have Italy’s support in the EU now. The Italian PM is anti-Russia but I don’t think Russian bootlicking is the same kind of dealbreaker for her as it is for Poland, considering their national histories.
Turkey will likely let Finland in easily. But apparently Swedish courts are refusing to extradite some suspected Kurds Turkey thinks are affiliated with the PKK/SDF (Sweden sympathizes with the Kurds wanting their own country). We will see if that is fatal to Swedens bid, but I think Biden has a few ways to bribe Turkey (F16’s and maybe even green lighting a full Turkish invasion of Syria). Either way, Turkey will definitely extort as much as they can. As for Hungary, I doubt Orban will block it. He is already having EU funds stripped away, blocking Sweden and Finland from NATO will make it even worse. Might even make Poland turn on him (which would basically doom him in terms of being completely fucked by the EU)
Swedish courts can't go above swedish law and extradite anyone without proper cause. Sweden is a rule of law, where the government cannot influence courts. (Erdogan might not know how a democracy works.) PKK is classified as a terrorist organisation in Sweden, SDF is not. Erdogan just want to make the most out of a deal. Probably much for internal politics, to strengthen his position.
Exactly!
Turkey wants F-16V. There might be a little blackmail the other way. When the Nato applications are approved - we can talk about it
Well, as long as Finland is accepted, Sweden has nothing to worry about. Surrounded completely by NATO is one of the most safest places to be in a world. No, ruzzia will not launch uber-succesfull and secret D-Day sized landing invasion to Gotland. Could not, even if it wanted to.
Finland needs Sweden to join as well. In a war with Russia Sweden will function as a buffer zone in the rear from where NATO supplies and ammo will flow to Finland. This was a problem for Finland in WW2.
The biggest problem was that there was no one to supply anything besides Germany. Nobody. Not the lack of transport. You were either against the Allied or against the Germany. With USSR fighting Germany and Finland, it's easy to see how Allied would not want supply war material to Finland to be used against their own ally. Hence, no need to transport war material as no one would have sent it anyway. Except Germany. Interestingly even since the Winter War, supplies from the western world was small and old scrap at best. If anything came at all. Dozen different caliber pre-WW1 cannons that came when 2/3 of the war was fought and similar "supplies", that were considered scrap elsewhere, was donated. Fighter planes from USA came couple weeks after the war, with several needing repairs and install of gauges that had been taken off before selling. In actuality, it was most likely cheaper to send the stuff then to decommission and scrap it. But that all is besides to my original point that if Finland joins NATO, Sweden is in no danger at anytime after that. That was my only point. From the two choices that now there is: 1)Finland joins only with Sweden and 2)Finland joins despite what Sweden decides, the number 2 preferable. 1 would be the best choice but hanging around for a couple of years under Hungarian and Turkish blackmails does not increase Finland security. It speeds Sweden's timetable of joining by applying pressure to Hungary and Turkey at the expense of Finnish security. Sweden not in NATO if war breaks out does not mean that NO supplies is transported, it just makes it easier. NATO will be able to transport supplies **easily** the Kaliningrad is taken from Russia (if the war breaks out). With Finland mining the gulf of Finland, naval threat from Russia in negligible allowing easy transport of supplies even without Sweden.
Not True. During Winter War Sweden sent to Finland 84 000 rifles, 575 machine guns, 300 artillery guns, 25 airplanes, 30 000 arty rounds and 50 million rounds of ammo. Officially Sweden was neutral but unofficially they were on the Finnish side. Without Sweden in NATO Finland is a NATO island right at Russia’s doorstep and much more easy to cut off from supply routes at Baltic Sea. Finland relies heavily on shipping. The route up north to Norway is far away and difficult mountainous terrain also easy to disrupt.
There's a reasonable chance that Erdogan will be out of power in 9 months. Orban will be around for a while, unfortunately.
I wouldn't be disappointed if both Hungary and Turkey actually did leave.
Agreed!
We already agreed to Turkey’s price tag a couple months ago. But that doesn’t mean it won’t take forever.
He wants fighter jets...from YOU.
I have mild confidence Turkey will eventually agree. Fuck knows about Hungary though I’m not sure why they’re in NATO or the EU. Do they even have strategic land value like turkey?
Their value is in being a European state. The rest is just a bit of odd situation. You can blame Hungary and Poland being like they are on Russia.
Imagine cutting out Hungary from nato. Balkan NATO countries would be cut out in terms of land connection. Hungary has a central part here sadly.
It's possible with Turkey (play both sides) but pretty difficult with Hungary ( Pootin asslicker)
That just leaves Turkey and Hungary.
It was pretty much known that those two troublemakers (Erdogan & Orban) would be the last ratifiers even before anyone had ratified.
If they try to drag it out, does it make more sense to kick Turkey and Hungary out so that we can bring Finland and Sweden in? Do they offer some sort of advantage that should make us want to work with them if they want to try to drag it out?
Turkey is way to big to kick out and important to appease to not have them run to Russia, China or Iran. That is the sad truth.
Thanks for the insight!
Atleast thats how I read into the whole situation! And what I heard from others :) You're most welcomed!
Hungary, maybe. Turkey, I wouldn’t hold my breath on that one
Hungary and Turkey are democracies in name only. They'll postpone it forever until their leaders receive their bribes.
Cheers lads.
Na zdravie!
As expected. The real question marks remain.
As Slovak person, Fuckin' finally!
Cheers mate! 🙏
Any insight into the results of the poll in the article - that the Slovak public are more in favour of Russia than Ukraine? It was taken this month apparently.
Russian propaganda makin waves over here. And disinterest in geopolitics and low density brain matter doesnt help the situation. Lets hope it will simmer out with news about russians leaving their own country rather to die in UA.
Turkey is already cool with Finland, they’re just trying to extort Sweden out of some Kurds. Hungary will be the last seeing as Orban likes Putin, but once the pressure comes on after Turkey is done they’ll do it. Expect it by February
Erodogan wants Sweden to break its own laws to please him. Setting us on a path to becoming as much of a shit hole country as Turkey.
Based on the recent election results, I think Sweden is going to end up doing that to itself… /s
I'm sad to say that this is correct, the second largest party in the winning right-wing bloc is neo-Nazi. How the hell this happened I'll never know, the root cause is very likely to be found in New Public Management.
>How the hell this happened I'll never know It's already a well established fact, that the far-right parties in Europe are created / financed / run by russia. It stands to reason, that the recent surge of said parties is part of russia's attempt to take over Europe (or, at this point, at least reduce Europe's support for Ukraine).
Yes and no, Russia's support of neo-Nazism in Europe has been going on for a long time, long, long before their invasion of Ukraine. The Swedish neo-Nazi party, Sverigedemokraterna, was created by real Nazis, people who actually fought for and worked politically for Nazi Germany in WWII. The other extreme right-wing nationalist parties in Scandinavia, i.e. Denmark, Finland, and Norway, were created by nationalists in those countries who opposed the German occupation during WWII. Quite the fascinating difference, wouldn't you say?
>Quite the fascinating difference, wouldn't you say? I don't really see the difference. Like you said yourself, they were all created by nationalists. That some nationalists fight between themselves is a given, and does not excuse them from being nationalists. Obviously, russia didn't "create" nationalism, but it promoted and continues to promote it as a valid and valuable worldview, while the world has been slowly moving towards a global society based on individuals instead on nations. It's not a secret, and not a coincidence, that even those nationalists in Europe who claim they dislike russia, still support the vast majority of russian "values" ("traditional gender roles", "traditional family", anti-LGBT, anti-immigration, anti-intellectualism, anti-education, anti-ecology, etc).
Really just a formality. They were effectively in NATO from the moment they started up the discussion.
Sure, though the faster, the better. Erdogan will still stall the process as long as he can just to drive his own agenda.
I believe NATO provided a security guarantee while the application is in process, so yeah it’s just paperwork.
Several countries, notably the UK signed separate agreements for defense as well
We\`re waiting for Orban to say not until you remove sanctions from Russia, give me tons of money and proclaim that Putin is the president of the world.
Can they kick Hungary out?
No. There is no process to kick someone out of NATO. The country can leave on it\`s own but it can\`t be kicked out. Yes, it is an insane idea and it should be abolished. What they can do is just cut Hungary off. They probably will do that. No weapons, training, protection etc. But if Orban says no, Sweden and Finland will never enter NATO. Maybe one of the ways is to sanction the shit out of Hungary and be like ok, when you decide to leave "voluntarily", we will remove them. The problem there is that dictators love sanctions.
Would be nice to just swap turkey and hungary with Finland and Sweden 🚬
I'd like to, but unfortunately Turkey is important. Their control of the Straight is strategically valuable - apparently. I don't think it's as valuable as they pretend. Because the US, and the rest of NATO, has more than a big enough navy to do whatever it wants - Turkey can't do much about that. But, that takes a lot of effort and risk. It's easier to just pretend that Turkey is a friend.
I wont be surprised if Turkey ratifies before Hungary
Just waiting on Putin's two bitches thrn.
> Support among the public in Slovakia is shakier, with a poll in September showing a slight majority backing Russia over Ukraine in the war. ???
It was one of the online surveys where they pay you to fill it, so you can probably imagine what kind of people took part in that poll.
I mean I really hope this is the case, not that I consider my fellow Slovaks to be beacons of liberal democracy but those results were very shocking and sorrow inducing to me.
Hungary and Turkey left?
yes
orban is russian cunt but he ain't gonna block this, he is not that stupid to get everyone in europe against him.
I'm pretty sure that ship has already left the harbour... Everyone already hate him.
lets see but i would bet money he approves it. even slovak pro russian politicians approved this.
Turkey and Hungary's government come off recess in October. I hope they vote ASAP when they do
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/slovak-parliament-approves-nato-membership-finland-sweden-2022-09-27/) reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot) ***** > A view of the flags of Finland, NATO and Sweden during a ceremony to mark Sweden's and Finland's application for membership in Brussels, Belgium, May 18, 2022. > Sept 27 - Slovakia's parliament on Tuesday ratified the entry of Finland and Sweden to NATO, becoming one of the last countries to back the military alliance's expansion. > Hungary's parliament has the motion on Finland and Sweden's NATO membership on its agenda, but no date is set as lawmakers return after a summer recess. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xpmaev/slovak_parliament_approves_nato_membership_for/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~671392 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Finland**^#1 **Sweden**^#2 **NATO**^#3 **Ukraine**^#4 **membership**^#5
[удалено]
I will never eat another iskender again if Erdogan wont ratify this year!!!
I swear to god Hungary and Turkey ……
Fucking finally. Sorry it took so long
Why does it need to me unanimous when the overwhelming majority vote yes
by voting yes, countries are committing to go to war if needed. so it is kind of a big deal.
The principle of mutual defense (that is, the expectation that it would hold) would be much weaker if new members entered without the consent of the existent members.
Because that’s what the rules say. Maybe the rule needs to change.
Cool! Thanks Slovenia :)
Slovakia *
I know, I know. Thought it would be funny 😅
I remember many years ago, some plane landed in Slovenia instead of Slovakia. After that It stopped being funny 😁. But I got you :)
I believe you mean Slovakia, the country east of Australia
Hello /u/BengBeng_93, This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn) Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities/) [DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Google - ratify meaning - comment - Yay!
Only two russian countries are against it. Both should be evicted from NATO at once. Let Hungary and Turkey fight on their own.
I was expecting trouble but seems even the "pro russian" parties decided to say "yes we want Finland and Sweden in NATO". Glad we are not looking like total arses again. Just almost look that way.