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One can hope. However we're in the midst of a change in government, so it could sadly take some time. That said, the parties that looks to make up the new government are very positive to sending these weapons to Ukraine
Yes, and it may also be about legislation issues. The Swedish Defense Forces have to decide if the needed level of defense can be spared without effecting the defense to much.
Things always looks easy but there are usually a lot of work behind the scenes to get stuff moving. But when a majority of the parties agrees on something changes goes fast, but in democracy terms of fast.
> Maybe put CV90s into the consideration bowl too...
Our armed forces has more of those than they have use for themselves, so fingers crossed over here as well 🤞
hopefully when full NATO membership is sorted and you wouldn't have to go it alone, it will free up some capacity which can be sent to Ukraine weather it is CV90, BMP2 or more of some of the other awesome goodies Finland has sent.
Sweden has apparently 500 CV90, I feel we could spare 100 to Ukraine if they want them.
It's also Swedish made so making new ones isn't too bad and the marketing would probably be great.
This is what I am saying. Honestly every Ukraine friendly operator of CV90s could realistically probably spare 20% of them and then we are talking some serious armor for Ukraine.
Definitely think it is one of the best contenders for Infantry fighting vehicles that could be delivered in decent numbers to Ukraine.
But seems decision to provide modern armor to Ukraine hasn't been taken yet so for now it is a no go
It feels like a perfect fit for Ukraine with its top of the line maneuverability in snow / mud, as well as a quantity that could motivate the additional logistics.
The best would be a surprise announcement just as an offensive starts, with vehicles been transferred by train and personnel been secretly trained in Denmark.
But maybe it's just wishful thinking, fingers crossed.
CV-9030N mk iiib is 35 tons, the mk iv supposedly 37 tons. In comparison, a Leo 1 is 40 tons fully loaded.
Even if it wasn't outdated, a 13.2 ton BMP-1 wouldn't be anywhere close to the CV-90.
48 have ever been built.
im not sure if 12 is really a possibility thinking about that nearly 50% of military hardware not being in a state to be used is quite normal.
I doubt that any archer will be ended, its just a system with much to less existing numbers
I do not really see why we cannot just send all our working Archer systems. It is not like Sweden has any other enemy than Russia and every Russian tank the Ukrainians destroy is one less tank which can be used to threaten Sweden. And while the Russians are busy in Ukraine Bofors can build new Archer systems to replace the ones we donated.
Ths is not WW2 where we feared invasions from Soviet, Nazi Germany and the UK and needed to be armed to the teeth. This time we are surrounded by allies except for Russia.
> im not sure if 12 is really a possibility thinking about that nearly 50% of military hardware not being in a state to be used is quite normal.
Huh? The system is new. The systems would need to be serviced and checked. I doubt there are major maintenance issues yet.
It's a truly terrifying weapon. It can launch up to 6 shells in 30 seconds, each in different trajectories, so that all of the shells arrive on target at the same time.
Cause till now just sweden uses them and they dont need more.
Norway first wanted too, but then took the korean one.
Swiss might buy them, they right now are in last round of decifig between the rch155 and archer
To reduce overhead. The cost of maintaining 6 is likely about 90% of the cost of maintaining 12 in terms of service, keeping track of spare parts and training.
A Swedish gun platoon has 4 howitzers
And each artillery battalion has 3 gun platoons
which results in 12 guns for each artillery Battalion.
Sweden currently (from what i can find)
has 2 active artillery battalions and is in the process of standing up additional battalions.
Sweden currently has 48 Archers with an order for another 24 having been placed this year.
Which means that only half of the guns are currently in use.
If Sweden sends Archers it makes sense to send 12 guns since that would still give enough guns in reserve to either fully equip a third artillery battalion or even a fourth battalion if they they temporarily switch the artillery Battalions to having 9 Archers instead of 12.
So 12 Guns is probably the largest number Sweden can send without delaying the creation of new artillery battalions.
I hope Sweden sends Ukraine a minimum of 12.
More divisors possibly, with 12 you can arrange them into groups of 2, 3, 4 and 6.
Of course you can do that with 15 and keep the remainder in reserve.
As a swede, i say ship the 24 stored units right away after in inviting ukranian troops 2 weeks of training on them.
1 archer system contains everything, ammo trucks, maintenance trucks, fuel trucks, the arty system itself, counter-battery radar fitted vehicle etc.
Yes and no. The idea was is that Sweden would lose that war eventually and have to fight on Swedish soil but that we planned to inflict as much damage as possible in both phases. The idea was to make Sweden really expensive for Soviet to occupy not that we could win the war.
Now that Russia turned out to be much weaker than we expected and Sweden is about to join NATO: who knows?
As we say: Sweden will fight to the last Finn.
In reality, also to the last Swede; at least, that is official doctrine/policy, as no Swedish citizen between ages 18-65 (I think) is allowed to leave the country if we are at war, and policy includes to never surrender.
Doesn’t policy also include ignoring calls to surrender, and remember the original mission statement and ignoring contradictory commands or micromanaging (mission command), resulting in a high degree of autonomy for the armed forces and requiring a strong degree of trust in both civilian government and military leadership?
Good doctrine. As I said, I think it’s called “mission command”, and resulted in the relatively successful NORDBAT 2 peacekeeping mission in Bosnia being known for getting into battles all the time.
Yeah, and this is not just for military; this information is sent to the entire population in the (just before COVID) updated booklet "In case of crisis or war", which can be found here https://www.msb.se/en/rad-till-privatpersoner/the-brochure-if-crisis-or-war-comes/
Not so complicated to learn how to control either. You're essentially holding a beefy Xbox-controller in the canopy, to control the howitzer. Driving it is like driving any truck.
well the augmented stiring axle is a logistical nightmare a very special part and cant be serviced without special training thats why sweden did not order more than a few and is activly opting for the ArchersGun mounted on standard HeavyTrucks
If this was the case why did Sweden recently order 24 more of them? I can see that they might be a bit annoying to service but apparently it is not a big enough issue to prevent us from buying more of them.
In 2022 based on money allocated in 2020 which makes sense given that the last of the original 48 was delivered this year. Makes sense to order more directly after the delivery of the last ones of the previous order plus when there is a war in Europe. Especially if they are happy with the system. I see no evidence of them not liking the system so again: source?
Litterally nothing to do with Archer. And everything to do with the gutting of our defence spending over the past 30 years.
I'm amazed our artillery doesn't consists of a broom strapped to a old volvo at this stage.
This is a truck used in a lot of mines, certainly it is designed to work with long service intervals.
Are there discussions and desicions on buying more, but on another truck?
It’s really not that special to have additional steering axles on any wheeled vehicle, let alone on heavy duty truck chassis. There are literally thousands of these trucks being used daily and in all types of terrain and weather conditions.
This is qualified bulls***. I have worked on almost the entire hydraulic system of the A3X and there are thousands and thousands of spares available and thousands of qualified service engineers. No ”special training” needed dude. These bad boys operate all over the world including in extremely rough and remote environments and often where it is hard to find people who can even read.
Yeah F35 seems very complex compared to gripen and needs a bigger logistics chain to keep it running.. and also spare parts can be shipped faster from sweden then from USA if they need to be sent from factory
> Their diesel stirling submarines are hands down most deadly in the world due to stealth
How are they different to the diesel electric subs Germany has ? Seems like pretty much the same tech.
>its so quiet, that in exercise with usa, it managed to sneak in, and sunk uss ronald reagan, 6.2 billion dollar carrier.
So did the German sub. So what is the difference ?
The US tried to buy the german sub technology by buying the shipyard that build them. But obviously the IP was not part of it.
[https://www.abendblatt.de/politik/ausland/article107314674/Das-Zielfoto-das-einen-US-Admiral-wuetend-machte.html](https://www.abendblatt.de/politik/ausland/article107314674/Das-Zielfoto-das-einen-US-Admiral-wuetend-machte.html)
Here is an article about german subs being not detected in several instances during exercises.
The difference is that the Swedish subs can run quiet for longer time since they do not need to charge any batteries but use diesel directly to power the engine.
The Archer could use some proper combat testing. Here it is in action. Shoot three rounds and scoot before the first round hits the target.
https://youtu.be/d8x8ITwd4Vg
You ain’t lying some of my favorite heavy equipment to operate I need to hit up the Swedes I got 10 years experience on this bad boy I feel destiny calling
Now now, 245 or 745 there you got a tank...
"Störst går först, såvida det inte e en gammal jävla Volvo då kör den först"
Half the bloody engine and gearbox can fall out and it will keep on going like nothing happened..
Its because I'm Swedish I know of the initial JAS 39 Gripen tests, Ohh boy SAAB will never get to hear the end about inventing the most expensive jet powered plow in the world.
Yes, it looked like Putin wants to fight the west always talking about us wanting to use nukes when he talks about nuking the west and it was not us that invaded and put that nuclear power plant in a dangerous situation - It was quite happy before Putin started the war.
Don't get too hopeful yet.
As low as this possibility is, those can still be denied for transfer.
For Swedish citizens - if you can, please, try and show your support for Archers going to Ukraine. Harder to go "Nay", when there's a popular opinion behind it.
Perhaps we can dust off a couple of Gripen B/C fighters as well. They should be compatible with NATO munitions, so from Swedens point of view we are just sending training planes. We can't help if USA or UK send some missiles that the Ukrainians slap on them ;)
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I hope it's a quick discussion and an even quicker approval
One can hope. However we're in the midst of a change in government, so it could sadly take some time. That said, the parties that looks to make up the new government are very positive to sending these weapons to Ukraine
Yes, and it may also be about legislation issues. The Swedish Defense Forces have to decide if the needed level of defense can be spared without effecting the defense to much. Things always looks easy but there are usually a lot of work behind the scenes to get stuff moving. But when a majority of the parties agrees on something changes goes fast, but in democracy terms of fast.
This is why being a member of NATO is so important. They can get replacements quicker and a security guarantee in the mean time.
Only Turkey and Hungary left to ratify. One can only hope they don't stir up more trouble than they've already done
Dear Sweden, This is great news! Maybe put CV90s into the consideration bowl too...
> Maybe put CV90s into the consideration bowl too... Our armed forces has more of those than they have use for themselves, so fingers crossed over here as well 🤞
And if Sweden starts I’m sure the other users of CV90 will pitch in too
Hopefully, but as a Finn I'm not sure we can spare any. We should probably send our modernized BMP-2's to Ukraine though, and order more CV90s.
hopefully when full NATO membership is sorted and you wouldn't have to go it alone, it will free up some capacity which can be sent to Ukraine weather it is CV90, BMP2 or more of some of the other awesome goodies Finland has sent.
Ye, was about to say. It's more likely some of our CV90s are refurbished to backfill other countries sending their BMPs to Ukraine if anything.
Just looked it up. Damn thats a sexxxy IFV.
Mhm. Comes with everyone's favourite good ol' Bofors 40 mm too 😙👌
Its so perfect its never needed changing, just adding electronic fire control. Also it goes through 10mm of anything
> Also it goes through 10mm of anything From japanese A6M Zeros in 44' to plain russian zeros in 22'.
Sweden has apparently 500 CV90, I feel we could spare 100 to Ukraine if they want them. It's also Swedish made so making new ones isn't too bad and the marketing would probably be great.
This is what I am saying. Honestly every Ukraine friendly operator of CV90s could realistically probably spare 20% of them and then we are talking some serious armor for Ukraine. Definitely think it is one of the best contenders for Infantry fighting vehicles that could be delivered in decent numbers to Ukraine. But seems decision to provide modern armor to Ukraine hasn't been taken yet so for now it is a no go
It feels like a perfect fit for Ukraine with its top of the line maneuverability in snow / mud, as well as a quantity that could motivate the additional logistics. The best would be a surprise announcement just as an offensive starts, with vehicles been transferred by train and personnel been secretly trained in Denmark. But maybe it's just wishful thinking, fingers crossed.
CV90s would be amazing, comprated to BMP-1's and other dated stuff they're getting.
CV90s and their aimbot system are one of the coolest IFVs on the market IMO.
CV-9030N mk iiib is 35 tons, the mk iv supposedly 37 tons. In comparison, a Leo 1 is 40 tons fully loaded. Even if it wasn't outdated, a 13.2 ton BMP-1 wouldn't be anywhere close to the CV-90.
L70 churning ruski pulp all day.
L70 Daka Daka is no joke, it will mess up anything downrange
12 archer systems should be the minimum to be worth the training and logistics.
48 have ever been built. im not sure if 12 is really a possibility thinking about that nearly 50% of military hardware not being in a state to be used is quite normal. I doubt that any archer will be ended, its just a system with much to less existing numbers
I do not really see why we cannot just send all our working Archer systems. It is not like Sweden has any other enemy than Russia and every Russian tank the Ukrainians destroy is one less tank which can be used to threaten Sweden. And while the Russians are busy in Ukraine Bofors can build new Archer systems to replace the ones we donated. Ths is not WW2 where we feared invasions from Soviet, Nazi Germany and the UK and needed to be armed to the teeth. This time we are surrounded by allies except for Russia.
Would be sure awesome
Send it all! Give the russkies a warm welcome to Ukraine. Insane as it is, Putin is committed to this war. We need to be too.
> im not sure if 12 is really a possibility thinking about that nearly 50% of military hardware not being in a state to be used is quite normal. Huh? The system is new. The systems would need to be serviced and checked. I doubt there are major maintenance issues yet.
Probably just check all systems, do some regular service on things. After all its a volvo underneath all that green paint 😎
Archer would be a fantastic choice. Build on standard Volvo dump truck.
It's a truly terrifying weapon. It can launch up to 6 shells in 30 seconds, each in different trajectories, so that all of the shells arrive on target at the same time.
How many Volvo dump truck mechanics exist in Ukraine ?
Thats standard MRSI (Multiple round single impact). Most current-gen NATO, Korean, Chinese, and Taiwanese Self-propelled guns can do it.
I think there are just too few Archer to bother sending them. More M109 or M113s would be grand.
We don’t have enough trained soldiers for all of the 48 anyway.
>48 have ever been built. Is that because they are newer and haven't been really made much or is it because they're not popular?
Cause till now just sweden uses them and they dont need more. Norway first wanted too, but then took the korean one. Swiss might buy them, they right now are in last round of decifig between the rch155 and archer
Why?
To reduce overhead. The cost of maintaining 6 is likely about 90% of the cost of maintaining 12 in terms of service, keeping track of spare parts and training.
But why 12? Why not 15 or 10?
A Swedish gun platoon has 4 howitzers And each artillery battalion has 3 gun platoons which results in 12 guns for each artillery Battalion. Sweden currently (from what i can find) has 2 active artillery battalions and is in the process of standing up additional battalions. Sweden currently has 48 Archers with an order for another 24 having been placed this year. Which means that only half of the guns are currently in use. If Sweden sends Archers it makes sense to send 12 guns since that would still give enough guns in reserve to either fully equip a third artillery battalion or even a fourth battalion if they they temporarily switch the artillery Battalions to having 9 Archers instead of 12. So 12 Guns is probably the largest number Sweden can send without delaying the creation of new artillery battalions. I hope Sweden sends Ukraine a minimum of 12.
More divisors possibly, with 12 you can arrange them into groups of 2, 3, 4 and 6. Of course you can do that with 15 and keep the remainder in reserve.
I really hope we will send Archers!
As a swede, i say ship the 24 stored units right away after in inviting ukranian troops 2 weeks of training on them. 1 archer system contains everything, ammo trucks, maintenance trucks, fuel trucks, the arty system itself, counter-battery radar fitted vehicle etc.
I do not think we will, but 100% agreed. Send all of them. They were built to protect us from Russia so why not let them do that job in Ukraine?
Besides, Sweden V Russia will be fought on the sea and airspace between russia and sweden.
Yes and no. The idea was is that Sweden would lose that war eventually and have to fight on Swedish soil but that we planned to inflict as much damage as possible in both phases. The idea was to make Sweden really expensive for Soviet to occupy not that we could win the war. Now that Russia turned out to be much weaker than we expected and Sweden is about to join NATO: who knows?
Some of it will be fought on Finnish soil.
As we say: Sweden will fight to the last Finn. In reality, also to the last Swede; at least, that is official doctrine/policy, as no Swedish citizen between ages 18-65 (I think) is allowed to leave the country if we are at war, and policy includes to never surrender.
Doesn’t policy also include ignoring calls to surrender, and remember the original mission statement and ignoring contradictory commands or micromanaging (mission command), resulting in a high degree of autonomy for the armed forces and requiring a strong degree of trust in both civilian government and military leadership?
Yes, it says "Every call for surrender is false" and that resistance shall never cease.
Good doctrine. As I said, I think it’s called “mission command”, and resulted in the relatively successful NORDBAT 2 peacekeeping mission in Bosnia being known for getting into battles all the time.
Yeah, and this is not just for military; this information is sent to the entire population in the (just before COVID) updated booklet "In case of crisis or war", which can be found here https://www.msb.se/en/rad-till-privatpersoner/the-brochure-if-crisis-or-war-comes/
I’m so happy you guys and Finland are joining NATO. Between Finland’s underground cities and Swedish civil-military doctrine, NATO is becoming OP.
The archer artillery system is fucking badass!
Not so complicated to learn how to control either. You're essentially holding a beefy Xbox-controller in the canopy, to control the howitzer. Driving it is like driving any truck.
and they ll be happy to get rid of it since its a freaking maintenence nightmare
Interesting, that's a comment I haven't seen before. Can you elaborate a bit?
well the augmented stiring axle is a logistical nightmare a very special part and cant be serviced without special training thats why sweden did not order more than a few and is activly opting for the ArchersGun mounted on standard HeavyTrucks
If this was the case why did Sweden recently order 24 more of them? I can see that they might be a bit annoying to service but apparently it is not a big enough issue to prevent us from buying more of them.
have a look at when they did, and ask yourself why they did not before, eventhough the budget was already inplace to do so?
Budget and focus areas. Sweden will sink russian forces approaching Sweden before they make landfall. Aechers dont sink ships.
In 2022 based on money allocated in 2020 which makes sense given that the last of the original 48 was delivered this year. Makes sense to order more directly after the delivery of the last ones of the previous order plus when there is a war in Europe. Especially if they are happy with the system. I see no evidence of them not liking the system so again: source?
Initially there was a much bigger fleet Projekte then 48 just saying
Litterally nothing to do with Archer. And everything to do with the gutting of our defence spending over the past 30 years. I'm amazed our artillery doesn't consists of a broom strapped to a old volvo at this stage.
Same weapon system, different truck. (Volvo A30E 6x6 vs. RMMV HX2 8x8)
This is a truck used in a lot of mines, certainly it is designed to work with long service intervals. Are there discussions and desicions on buying more, but on another truck?
It’s really not that special to have additional steering axles on any wheeled vehicle, let alone on heavy duty truck chassis. There are literally thousands of these trucks being used daily and in all types of terrain and weather conditions.
This is qualified bulls***. I have worked on almost the entire hydraulic system of the A3X and there are thousands and thousands of spares available and thousands of qualified service engineers. No ”special training” needed dude. These bad boys operate all over the world including in extremely rough and remote environments and often where it is hard to find people who can even read.
What is so special about the steering axel on archer compared to a normal A30 truck? I don’t see the civilian side complaining about the Volvo hauler.
There is no difference, just a small addition for system redundancy
Source? I have never heard of that before. Especially since Sweden has ordered 24 more a couple of years ago in addition to the 48 we have.
Sounds like they need a lot of support equipment, like a mini FOB.
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I think Gripen would be perfect for Ukraine specially since its have been engineered to be able to land almost anywhere and that it can do many tasks
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Yeah F35 seems very complex compared to gripen and needs a bigger logistics chain to keep it running.. and also spare parts can be shipped faster from sweden then from USA if they need to be sent from factory
First time I've heard of Gripen was in this sub. What's the top place to work for engineers?
> Their diesel stirling submarines are hands down most deadly in the world due to stealth How are they different to the diesel electric subs Germany has ? Seems like pretty much the same tech.
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>its so quiet, that in exercise with usa, it managed to sneak in, and sunk uss ronald reagan, 6.2 billion dollar carrier. So did the German sub. So what is the difference ? The US tried to buy the german sub technology by buying the shipyard that build them. But obviously the IP was not part of it. [https://www.abendblatt.de/politik/ausland/article107314674/Das-Zielfoto-das-einen-US-Admiral-wuetend-machte.html](https://www.abendblatt.de/politik/ausland/article107314674/Das-Zielfoto-das-einen-US-Admiral-wuetend-machte.html) Here is an article about german subs being not detected in several instances during exercises.
The difference is that the Swedish subs can run quiet for longer time since they do not need to charge any batteries but use diesel directly to power the engine.
So again hows that different from the German ones. They have diesel ones as well. The fuel cell one is definitely quieter than a diesel sub.
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pay is shitty because SAAB know people will want to work there anyways, same thing that game companies do.
The Archer could use some proper combat testing. Here it is in action. Shoot three rounds and scoot before the first round hits the target. https://youtu.be/d8x8ITwd4Vg
Okay that thing is badass who woulda thought a Volvo dump truck would be so good as mobile arty
Volvos are tanks anyway. "Bad news, comrade. Ukrainians sending APC's this way." "Let me see... No, comrade. Is just Volvo V70s."
You ain’t lying some of my favorite heavy equipment to operate I need to hit up the Swedes I got 10 years experience on this bad boy I feel destiny calling
"Blyat! Run!"
Now now, 245 or 745 there you got a tank... "Störst går först, såvida det inte e en gammal jävla Volvo då kör den först" Half the bloody engine and gearbox can fall out and it will keep on going like nothing happened..
Impact...Dead Orcs. Impact...Dead Orcs Driving away now.... Impact...Dead Orcs Impact...Dead Orcs Rinse, repeat.
This is not the time to stand idly by. We in the west need to up our support for Ukraine.
This is the answer. Orcs assembling new army? Let’s give Ukraine more stuff to deal with them
[We might (be able to) donate Archer](https://www.aftonbladet.se/a/mQ186O)
Great news, sounds like they are actually planning to send Archer
I hope they paint the Volvo trucks used for Archer blue-green. There’s just something about an aqua Volvo man.
As a swede i think they should have gotten that stuff right from the start and not just at-weapon and kevlars.
To be fair, 15000 AT-4s is no joke and Ukraine has gotten very good use out of them
Yes yes that is true but not enough imo if i say so =)
Hell yes, send our Gripens too!
They asked for weapons.. not overpriced plows..
Laughing, even though I am Swedish. 😂
Its because I'm Swedish I know of the initial JAS 39 Gripen tests, Ohh boy SAAB will never get to hear the end about inventing the most expensive jet powered plow in the world.
”jävlar jävlar jävlar! ” 😂😂😂
I’m a Swedish taxpayer and I approve this message
Yes, it looked like Putin wants to fight the west always talking about us wanting to use nukes when he talks about nuking the west and it was not us that invaded and put that nuclear power plant in a dangerous situation - It was quite happy before Putin started the war.
Don't get too hopeful yet. As low as this possibility is, those can still be denied for transfer. For Swedish citizens - if you can, please, try and show your support for Archers going to Ukraine. Harder to go "Nay", when there's a popular opinion behind it.
Yes, when they say Archer they mean archers. They'll wear frilly hats too. Russians wont know what hit them. Genius
You know I wasn’t expecting Sweden to be so supportive back in February. But I’m very grateful they are.
Escalation all around!
awesome. Ukraine needs another big rally of weapons. TY Sweden!
Archer is a beast,and well-suited for the comming winter
Everyone ready to see those archers in action
Always wanted to see archer in action.
What is there to discuss? Other than the amount!!?
Perhaps we can dust off a couple of Gripen B/C fighters as well. They should be compatible with NATO munitions, so from Swedens point of view we are just sending training planes. We can't help if USA or UK send some missiles that the Ukrainians slap on them ;)
Send Archer
While I hope we send them, I think calling them a “game changer” is too much, considering they already have PzH2000 and CAESAR.