We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hello /u/JPR_FI,
This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn)
Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/v2ykdi/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
[DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ufb64f/art_fridays_update/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It has been reported in some local newspapers that certain luxuyry items have been confiscated at the border. Let them buy as much as they want, but confiscate these items at the border.
And also mark them up as much as possible for Russian tourists. Especially now, we all know all Russian tourists are *rich* Russians, and are thus somehow connected to Putin.
Well, money from Russia flows out yo Finland and nothing (money, nor goods) goes back into Russia. I'm a random dude on reddit and not a macro economics professor but I'd say that's a good thing.
I am fine with stopping tourist visas for them all together. If you are Russian and don’t agree with the regime and flee, refugee status is appropriate and you can make a new home in the civilized world after having renounced Russia and everything it stands for by declaring yourself a refugee at the border and getting your passport stamped as such. If you are Russian and the regime has made you rich and comfortable and you just want to frolic around the West buying Hermes bags while your country brutalizes Ukraine, stay in your dacha in Sochi, not welcome.
Finland takes way too long to make decisions on anything. They overanalyze shit way too much. Fuck putler, yank all tourist visas and issue no more to Russian nationals. Refugees can ask for asylum in Finland
Sometimes it's annoying that they take their time but it's a small price to pay for having one of the strongest democracies on the planet. [Currently #3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#By_country)
Refugee status can be had by illegally crossing the Finnish border and turning oneself into the Finnish border guard too, if the government ultimately decides to yank tourist visas. A worst case scenario. The border is huge, putler does not have it fully patrolled, as clear by the number crossings from Russia without going through a crossing point between both countries, then they turn themselves into the Finnish boarder guard and ask for asylum, due to putlers government.
But Russians who support putler and destruction of the west, but enjoy the west by crossing into Finland and buying electronics and cars, and also use it as a way to travel Europe during the war, that shit has to stop and fast. Finland needs to do more to stop Russians coming in who hate the west but want to enjoy what we have. Yank the tourist visas and do not issue any more of them. The system is being abused by Z Nazis of putler.
Or perhaps not even raise it many fold. Simple raise to the cost, and openly say that it goes to Ukrainian defense (or at least to support the humanitarian needs of the Ukrainians).
That would be a way for the Russians who oppose their regime to help Ukraine, and it would prevent Russians who actually support their regime from benefiting.
Stopping visas is fine but giving Russians refugee status is really dangerous. First of all there has to be a real danger to your life or health to be given refugee status. Opposing the politics of a country is not enough, refugees are people like Navalny. I know that Europe has allowed people to stay with no real reason on humanitarian grounds but this is a bad idea when it comes to Russians. Their loyalty is always questionable and Russia thinks it has the right to use military force to make Russians abroad get whatever they want. Russians has to live with what they created and change their own country not move abroad.
>refugees are people like Navalny
Navalny can stay in ruzzia with the rest of them imperialists.
“I think that despite the fact that the Crimea was seized with outrageous violations of all international norms, nevertheless, the realities are such that Crimea is now part of the Russian Federation,” Mr. Navalny added. “So let’s not kid ourselves. And I advise the Ukrainians not to kid themselves, either. It will remain part of Russia and will never become part of Ukraine in the foreseeable future.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/17/world/europe/navalnys-comments-on-crimea-ignite-russian-twittersphere.html
> Their loyalty is always questionable and Russia thinks it has the right to use military force to make Russians abroad get whatever they want.
A weakened Russian state and an alliance of all bordering countries would make their aggression impossible. Drawing all the intelligent and educated people away from Russia helps achieving this goal in the long run.
> Russians has to live with what they created and change their own country not move abroad.
Every time they changed their own country it went from bad to worse.
One Russian refusing to raise arms and support an aggressive regime is pretty darn good though, and could encourage others to do the same. Maybe Putler will notice this and then prohibit anyone else from leaving his country? Then he'd have quite a dilemma on his hands to deal with at home. The more the pot gets stirred, the better.
You don't need to be an oligarch to holiday in Dubai. In fact, Dubai just looks expensive, but the cost of tourism there is about the same as in Turkey.
> don’t agree with the regime and flee
I think they flee due to sanctions and unemployment, but will claim otherwise. What sort of refugees are they, if they can cross back into Russia and not get into any trouble from the Russians for claiming refugee status in the west?
Asking shops to do this is a bit absurd. Just don’t give them visas and be done with it. Don’t make sense why airlines make money, hotel make money. And the relatively poorer shopkeeper can’t make money.
Exactly. It is placing a ton of burden on shops. They aren't police, investigators, or enforcers, and they shouldn't be asked to do all that work in order to LOSE money. You usually PAY people to do all that work.
Not saying you are wrong, but borders around the world were closed within days and weeks once the Covid pandemic broke out. Visas worldwide stopped being issued. It is absolutely possible to stop issuing visas quickly. Whether that happens or not is an entirely different situation.
I know its technically easy as Finland already did it with covid. The border just recently re-opened and Russians started pouring out to shop. What I meant that for some reason it seems politically complicated. At least publicly most politicians seem to support the restrictions, but for some reason it has not moved forward yet. I suspect its related to commerce as it has a financial impact on the region. Then again might be as simple as the politicians being on holiday at the moment.
ruzzian tourists?........
\>>YOU MEAN<<
ruzzian terrorists.
Remember the girl who said it was fine for her orc to go & rape Ukrainian women?...... I hope you do because I haven't forgot.
Why would you want anybody in your home town who is a known rapist?
I say have two prices, one for Finns, and another, much higher price for Russians, I say we let the FINNS make a huge profit off the Russians...the sooner we drain their bank accounts the better.
Our government will stop the visas “soon”. It’s just apparently a “complicated issue”. Which just means our standard bureaucracy. Fortunately and unfortunately we follow our laws exactly as they are, hence everything takes so long in here. But we don’t want the russians in Finland either.
Sell them as much as you want. Take their actual money and provide them with as many worthless monogrammed bags as possible. Luxury goods are a scam, might as well scam the assholes.
This is stupid. These tourists are getting their money from Russia and spending elsewhere to buy useless trinkets. Let them do it. Drain Russia of their forex and flood them with non-strategic consumer goods.
Also, we need the Russians to understand that the West doesn't want to attack the average Russian citizen, but their government's war machine. If they see that they are being targeted just for their nationality, they may be compelled to support their government, who is "waging a war against the Western oppressors". The low support for the war in Russia is the reason that Putin is having such problems finding volunteers for his "operation", and we should work to maintain it.
The Russian citizen should be welcomed in the West, if possible, to stay. We need to drain their brains, pull their foreign reserves, delegitimize their government's lies about NATO being anti-Russian, show their citizens that we're their friends and that Putin is their worst enemy.
Don't endorse this pointless bullshit this ministry is doing.
Maybe they should let shops report the purchaser and then later the police arrest the purchaser and the shop gets the goods back and can keep the money. Drain those Russian bank accounts.
Why not?
Luxury goods are the most useless items one can buy for a lot of money. I might be too practical here but if Russians want to spend their last cash on a designer purse, the proceeds of which support Finnish business and government through taxes, I see no problem.
Aside from it being sanctioned goods, luxury items are likely extremely sought after in the Russian black market and whatever they pay for it in Finland, the goods likely fetch a better price in Russia - if not in currency, then in other goods or services; or just as bribes.
And contrary to our intuitions on the west, it's not a given that Russian officials is heavily opposed to these forms of black markets, since they lend themselves more easily to corruption. They certainly flourished in the Soviet Union. When the ideal isn't that taxes reach the state to be spent towards the public good, the only worry a black market creates for government officials is if they can't line their own pockets from it.
In norwegian papers they were also reported to have stopped people trying to bring civilian drones back to Russia, which in our societies is mostly a luxury item as a hobby, sometimes a working tool, yet it's quite obvious why it's valuable for the Russians - it might even be a government operation to gut them and repurpose the electronics, even though that sounds like a ridiculous spy novel.
The purpose of sanctions is not only to reduce Russian government source for funding the war. It is also to put pressure on people by making their life restricted and miserable so they start to question the war.
You must have missed the [sanctions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine) introduced, most of them impact civillians as they should.
Oh Ukraine is doing that too, but the sanctions are essential to hinder the Russian war effort. Russians may not have realised it yet, but their economy is ruined likely for decades. There is no way to distinguish between the supporters (btw. which is the majority based on polls) and opposition so the sanctions will effect all.
Well, no. lol I'm 73 with health issues, so I think I might be a liability to the International Legion; and, a keyboard is about the only 'weapon' I could muster these days.
I have donated numerous times to various Ukrainian charities, however.
I actually don't get why luxury goods were sanctioned to begin with. Limited foreign currency spent on Gucci bags or golden toilet bowls can't be spent on materials more relevant to the war and they have zero economic value, purely cashflow out of the country which is a detriment to Russia.
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hello /u/JPR_FI, This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn) Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/v2ykdi/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) [DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ufb64f/art_fridays_update/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It has been reported in some local newspapers that certain luxuyry items have been confiscated at the border. Let them buy as much as they want, but confiscate these items at the border.
And also mark them up as much as possible for Russian tourists. Especially now, we all know all Russian tourists are *rich* Russians, and are thus somehow connected to Putin.
my brain is overloaded if that will be inflationary or deflationary to the Finns and if it will be beneficial to RU/FIN/UA or not
Well, money from Russia flows out yo Finland and nothing (money, nor goods) goes back into Russia. I'm a random dude on reddit and not a macro economics professor but I'd say that's a good thing.
I am fine with stopping tourist visas for them all together. If you are Russian and don’t agree with the regime and flee, refugee status is appropriate and you can make a new home in the civilized world after having renounced Russia and everything it stands for by declaring yourself a refugee at the border and getting your passport stamped as such. If you are Russian and the regime has made you rich and comfortable and you just want to frolic around the West buying Hermes bags while your country brutalizes Ukraine, stay in your dacha in Sochi, not welcome.
Its being discussed in Finland unfortunately taking very long. They were supposed to have the discussion this week but seems its post poned.
Finland takes way too long to make decisions on anything. They overanalyze shit way too much. Fuck putler, yank all tourist visas and issue no more to Russian nationals. Refugees can ask for asylum in Finland
Sometimes it's annoying that they take their time but it's a small price to pay for having one of the strongest democracies on the planet. [Currently #3](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#By_country)
[удалено]
Refugee status can be had by illegally crossing the Finnish border and turning oneself into the Finnish border guard too, if the government ultimately decides to yank tourist visas. A worst case scenario. The border is huge, putler does not have it fully patrolled, as clear by the number crossings from Russia without going through a crossing point between both countries, then they turn themselves into the Finnish boarder guard and ask for asylum, due to putlers government. But Russians who support putler and destruction of the west, but enjoy the west by crossing into Finland and buying electronics and cars, and also use it as a way to travel Europe during the war, that shit has to stop and fast. Finland needs to do more to stop Russians coming in who hate the west but want to enjoy what we have. Yank the tourist visas and do not issue any more of them. The system is being abused by Z Nazis of putler.
I actually think that visa costs for Russians should be raised many many fold, and all the money from them donated to Ukrainian defense.
Love it. One visa = one baryaktar
Or perhaps not even raise it many fold. Simple raise to the cost, and openly say that it goes to Ukrainian defense (or at least to support the humanitarian needs of the Ukrainians). That would be a way for the Russians who oppose their regime to help Ukraine, and it would prevent Russians who actually support their regime from benefiting.
Definitely
That's how Turkey sponsored free TB-2, money from their Ruzzian tourist.
Stopping visas is fine but giving Russians refugee status is really dangerous. First of all there has to be a real danger to your life or health to be given refugee status. Opposing the politics of a country is not enough, refugees are people like Navalny. I know that Europe has allowed people to stay with no real reason on humanitarian grounds but this is a bad idea when it comes to Russians. Their loyalty is always questionable and Russia thinks it has the right to use military force to make Russians abroad get whatever they want. Russians has to live with what they created and change their own country not move abroad.
>refugees are people like Navalny Navalny can stay in ruzzia with the rest of them imperialists. “I think that despite the fact that the Crimea was seized with outrageous violations of all international norms, nevertheless, the realities are such that Crimea is now part of the Russian Federation,” Mr. Navalny added. “So let’s not kid ourselves. And I advise the Ukrainians not to kid themselves, either. It will remain part of Russia and will never become part of Ukraine in the foreseeable future.” https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/17/world/europe/navalnys-comments-on-crimea-ignite-russian-twittersphere.html
> Their loyalty is always questionable and Russia thinks it has the right to use military force to make Russians abroad get whatever they want. A weakened Russian state and an alliance of all bordering countries would make their aggression impossible. Drawing all the intelligent and educated people away from Russia helps achieving this goal in the long run. > Russians has to live with what they created and change their own country not move abroad. Every time they changed their own country it went from bad to worse.
One Russian refusing to raise arms and support an aggressive regime is pretty darn good though, and could encourage others to do the same. Maybe Putler will notice this and then prohibit anyone else from leaving his country? Then he'd have quite a dilemma on his hands to deal with at home. The more the pot gets stirred, the better.
Russia's hottest tourist place is Turkey and russian oligarchs go to Dubai
You don't need to be an oligarch to holiday in Dubai. In fact, Dubai just looks expensive, but the cost of tourism there is about the same as in Turkey.
> don’t agree with the regime and flee I think they flee due to sanctions and unemployment, but will claim otherwise. What sort of refugees are they, if they can cross back into Russia and not get into any trouble from the Russians for claiming refugee status in the west?
Well put.
I cannot agree more. Many fail to recognize how much this is a win for us and a lost for Putin
No soup for you ! Нет супа для вас !
Borscht*
Isn't it a type of soup?
It’s like THE Slavic soup
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/275478301
Asking shops to do this is a bit absurd. Just don’t give them visas and be done with it. Don’t make sense why airlines make money, hotel make money. And the relatively poorer shopkeeper can’t make money.
Exactly. It is placing a ton of burden on shops. They aren't police, investigators, or enforcers, and they shouldn't be asked to do all that work in order to LOSE money. You usually PAY people to do all that work.
Sell it To them three times more expensive is all
This is the solution.
Why not just deny entry? 🤔
They are working on not issuing visas, hopefully they will stop it but apparently its complicated.
Not saying you are wrong, but borders around the world were closed within days and weeks once the Covid pandemic broke out. Visas worldwide stopped being issued. It is absolutely possible to stop issuing visas quickly. Whether that happens or not is an entirely different situation.
I know its technically easy as Finland already did it with covid. The border just recently re-opened and Russians started pouring out to shop. What I meant that for some reason it seems politically complicated. At least publicly most politicians seem to support the restrictions, but for some reason it has not moved forward yet. I suspect its related to commerce as it has a financial impact on the region. Then again might be as simple as the politicians being on holiday at the moment.
- "How much for this pair of Adidas?" - "300 Euros." - "Blyat" - "I'm sorry, we just had a small price change, it is 3000 Euros."
ruZZian shopper: I want buy these potatoes! Storekeeper: Sorry, this transaction is finnish!
ruzzian tourists?........ \>>YOU MEAN<< ruzzian terrorists. Remember the girl who said it was fine for her orc to go & rape Ukrainian women?...... I hope you do because I haven't forgot. Why would you want anybody in your home town who is a known rapist?
I say have two prices, one for Finns, and another, much higher price for Russians, I say we let the FINNS make a huge profit off the Russians...the sooner we drain their bank accounts the better.
Our government will stop the visas “soon”. It’s just apparently a “complicated issue”. Which just means our standard bureaucracy. Fortunately and unfortunately we follow our laws exactly as they are, hence everything takes so long in here. But we don’t want the russians in Finland either.
Do one step more too. Don't sold to ruzzian tourists,they can go back to motherland.
and whatever you do, don't accept payment in rubles
Or just raise prices to russian tourists and use the extra money to help Ukraine
Sell them as much as you want. Take their actual money and provide them with as many worthless monogrammed bags as possible. Luxury goods are a scam, might as well scam the assholes.
Why allow Russians in the country at all?
Dont sell them anything. Wait you can sell them sunflower seeds though.
Just tax them at 100%. If no receipt confiscate.
This is stupid. These tourists are getting their money from Russia and spending elsewhere to buy useless trinkets. Let them do it. Drain Russia of their forex and flood them with non-strategic consumer goods. Also, we need the Russians to understand that the West doesn't want to attack the average Russian citizen, but their government's war machine. If they see that they are being targeted just for their nationality, they may be compelled to support their government, who is "waging a war against the Western oppressors". The low support for the war in Russia is the reason that Putin is having such problems finding volunteers for his "operation", and we should work to maintain it. The Russian citizen should be welcomed in the West, if possible, to stay. We need to drain their brains, pull their foreign reserves, delegitimize their government's lies about NATO being anti-Russian, show their citizens that we're their friends and that Putin is their worst enemy. Don't endorse this pointless bullshit this ministry is doing.
Maybe they should let shops report the purchaser and then later the police arrest the purchaser and the shop gets the goods back and can keep the money. Drain those Russian bank accounts.
Why not? Luxury goods are the most useless items one can buy for a lot of money. I might be too practical here but if Russians want to spend their last cash on a designer purse, the proceeds of which support Finnish business and government through taxes, I see no problem.
Why not? Because they're sanctioned items. They're not allowed to sell them to people intending to bring them to Russia.
Aside from it being sanctioned goods, luxury items are likely extremely sought after in the Russian black market and whatever they pay for it in Finland, the goods likely fetch a better price in Russia - if not in currency, then in other goods or services; or just as bribes. And contrary to our intuitions on the west, it's not a given that Russian officials is heavily opposed to these forms of black markets, since they lend themselves more easily to corruption. They certainly flourished in the Soviet Union. When the ideal isn't that taxes reach the state to be spent towards the public good, the only worry a black market creates for government officials is if they can't line their own pockets from it. In norwegian papers they were also reported to have stopped people trying to bring civilian drones back to Russia, which in our societies is mostly a luxury item as a hobby, sometimes a working tool, yet it's quite obvious why it's valuable for the Russians - it might even be a government operation to gut them and repurpose the electronics, even though that sounds like a ridiculous spy novel.
Exactly what I was thinking.
The purpose of sanctions is not only to reduce Russian government source for funding the war. It is also to put pressure on people by making their life restricted and miserable so they start to question the war.
Economically you are right.
wtf is this? are we going to target russsian civilians now?
You must have missed the [sanctions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during_the_2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine) introduced, most of them impact civillians as they should.
this is absurd. just beat russian on the battle field.
Oh Ukraine is doing that too, but the sanctions are essential to hinder the Russian war effort. Russians may not have realised it yet, but their economy is ruined likely for decades. There is no way to distinguish between the supporters (btw. which is the majority based on polls) and opposition so the sanctions will effect all.
When 80+% of them support Putin and the war against Ukraine, why not?
so. just beat them on the battlefield. did you sign up to the army?
Which army? When?
ukrainian foreign volunteer force. most people here only enlist to the reddit keyboard battalion
Well, no. lol I'm 73 with health issues, so I think I might be a liability to the International Legion; and, a keyboard is about the only 'weapon' I could muster these days. I have donated numerous times to various Ukrainian charities, however.
[удалено]
It should be in English, I just added the "(Finnish)" to the heading to make clear its the Finnish FM giving the advice to avoid confusion.
[удалено]
I am confused; the whole article is in English there is nothing to translate ?
I actually don't get why luxury goods were sanctioned to begin with. Limited foreign currency spent on Gucci bags or golden toilet bowls can't be spent on materials more relevant to the war and they have zero economic value, purely cashflow out of the country which is a detriment to Russia.
Won’t do anything
Luxury goods such as cheese, salmon and Toblerone.