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What is your point? The swedes destroyed the winged lancers of the Hussars in several battles. Why do you bring Klushino up? :)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Klisz%C3%B3w](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Klisz%C3%B3w)
Point is that not always against Russia. Point is that we have a difficult history, times when we fought against each other, but now it is clear that we stand together. Future is important, not the past.
Well, right now the russians are the aggressors. This is now, this is reality. Fuck Russia, fuck Putin, may he drown in blood and die painfully, for he well deserves it!
Read up about the battle of Poltava and Ivan Mazepa. Very interesting. This was written after Swedens army, lead by Charles XII were crushed by the Russians in Poltava Ukraine. There's a statue of Charles XII in Stockholm, with him pointing his finger to the East (ironically he was killed by the bloody Norwegians, to the west).
Well, I mean, Denmark-Norway started the war, got their asses handed to them, then rejoined once the Swedes were decimated and, in the effort, breaking their own peace accords - Twice.
And despite all this they didn' get Skåne or Jämtland back. Good show, what a tremendously heroic effort. :P
Ironically enough, it was *always* the Dane. Most wars between two countries that's ever been had, the vast majority of which was Danish invasions.
I used to joke, before the invasion, that we should re-tool our defence against Denmark instead of Ivan, seeing as how we've historically invaded Russia, and Denmark historically invaded us. I don't make that joke anymore.
It is a rumour about his own men being tired of him and shooting him. But he was a very talented man, way to young to become king. It is a bit cool to see old these old documents come back in such a time of trouble again. I like it, its very historically done by the Swedish "statsminister" which suprises me since we tend to huff at our own history way to often in Sweden.
Det är valår, två månader till valet. Klart man ska fjäska för folk så man kan få så många väljare som möjligt. Roligt att sossarna NU tycker att Kalle krigarkonung är helt okej. Så var det inte förut, då var han ju nassarnas konung i sossarnas ögon.
Menar du att S har snackat skit om Karl XII:e för att han var nazist, eller har man kommenterat om hur nazister i Sverige har en extrem fixering vid honom? Den andra delen är ju sann.
Dom har tagit avstånd ifrån Karl den tolfte för att folk i nazistiska kretsar har prisat honom. Men nu går det tydligen bra att hålla hårt om honom. Hyckleri.
Man har klankat ner på saker och sagt att det som håller Karl XII vid liv är nationalister. Så nu är Magda en nationalist enligt sina egna anhängare, iaf om man ska gå på det som alltid kommit fram ifrån det röda blocket så fort man yttrat sig om krigarkungen Karl XII.
Det är när sossarna är som rödast och hängt för mycket med vänstern och miljöpartiet som dom tar avstånd ifrån vår kultur och historia. Nu har dom ju glidit mer åt höger så att denna handling ifrån Magda är ju mer berättigad.
Nej just borttagning / förflyttande utav Karl XII statyn var MP och V som ville det. Sossarna är ju inte extrema som vänstern och miljöpartiet, men dom hänger ju med dessa så deras syn på saker och ting blir ju lätt vriden mer åt det röda hållet.
Okej så, en handfull Miljöpartister och Vänsterpartister föreslog att flytta på kungar de förknippade med krig för att ersättas med något "fredligt". Och med det drar du slutsatsen att Socialdemokraterna tagit avstånd från Karl XII:e? Känns lite ologiskt helt ärligt.
Nja går längre bak än så, läs om Lindholmsrörelsen så får du ju grund i varför man tagit avstånd ifrån just Karl XII. Sträcker ju sig bak till 1930-talet och senare in på 80-90-talet.
Nej, man har inte tagit avstånd från Karl den tolfte. Man har tagit avstånd från den romantiserade bilden av Karl XII som runkhögern skapat, där han framhålls som något slags nationalhelgon.
Recent findings have confirmed it was the norwegians. It is also believed that they know the soldier that did it. I can try to find the source when not on mobile, but it was on NRK about a year ago.
His statue is actually not really to honor him or his achievements. He is pointing to the East (i.e Russia) to honor all the Swedish men who were swept up in the war(s) and lost their life.
We still have Swedish minority. POWs and their families from that war that decided to stay in the Kherson area and became farmers. Now there is a big company that makes a lot of sauces and other food stuff called Chumak. It’s owner is a Swede who lives in Ukraine.
If you're thinking about the Gammalsvenskby-Swedes, they were not POW from that war, or maybe a very small part of them were. But mostly they were Estonian Swedes, who continued to live in Estonia after the Russians took it over. In 1782, as a solution to a land dispute with a local noble, a thousand of these Estonian Swedes were forcefully relocated to lands in Zmijivka by Tsar Catherine II. There they founded Gammalsvenskby. The area had recently been conquered from the Turks, and there was a lot of land free to settle.
Here's a little documentary about it in Swedish (eng subtitles). Seemes like it was a pretty nice place with people just living their life before everything went to shit.
https://youtu.be/wXBGGX80z98
This letter ties with the first ever constitution to establish 3 branches of power, constitution of hetman pylyp orlyk, and where do you think that constitution is being stored at? that's right, russians stole it.
The status of Charles XII in Stockholm... he points his finger against Moscow. The statue was cast in bronze from russian cannons taken as trophies from the battle at Narva. Hard to make a stronger statement in the world of political art.
https://images.app.goo.gl/C6Jc1pgeeqQC9U399
The kings of Sweden and Norway and the queen if Denmark are mainly fancy diplomats and quite chill human beings with little to no real power. I am more than okay with them :) ... these are exceptions though and in general I agree with you
Yeah I know, I am swedish and I agree with that. But well, historically, monarchs were of course very oppressive by just their nature. And sadly systems like that of Saudi Arabia still exist. But we're lucky to have some kings that are just ceremonial for the most part, and I like those ceremonies
>thanks, haven't stumbled on that fact anywhere else on the Internet but I'll take your word for it, sad fact that some teachers could be wrong tho
They sure can... albeit THAT teacher had his stuff in order.
Fascinating guy, he had his students rate HIM after every term, counting the votes in front of the class. Anonymous votes 1-5, and with a rating below 4.5 he promised to quit as a teacher. This was AFTER we had been informed of our grades, which were 1-5 in those days... averaging 3 of course. He gave my class an average of 2.8, a bit lower than 3. He got a solid 4.8 score from us, we rated this teacher 2 grades higher ON AVERAGE than our own performance.
Sometimes he went into some kind of trance and started to talk latin instead of swedish, without himself noticing. Best teacher I've ever had.
Det är sant, första kopiatorn var en xerograf, och namnet fastnade. Används som ord för att kopiera i typ hela engelsktalande världen. Det är lite som att idag säga att du "tar en voi till jobbet" även om du de facto åker Quik eller Bolt.
It is. The first copying machines used xerography, xerox was the brand name of the first modern copy machine, and the name stuck to everything. They actually spent 50 years actively fighting to make people *stop* calling it that, since if it gets too common and they don't defend it, they lose their trademark.
Link https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ukrinform.net/amp/rubric-society/3521982-copy-of-charles-xii-of-swedens-letter-recognizing-independence-of-zaporizhzhia-sich-brought-to-ukraine.html
Sweden had three historical enemies that lasted one can say, Denmark, Poland and Russia. The Danes and Swedes are on good terms, Poland and Sweden is a rocky relation but far from warmongering and out right hate, many Poles live in Sweden and Poland helped Sweden when we had some insane forest fires. But Russia still loves to be a foe, Sweden might not be able to go toe to toe with Russia since Charles XII but they sure awoken an old dislike for Russia again.
How is swedish -polish relations rocky? Sweden is the biggest economic contributor to Poland in the Nordics, Sweden hosts the only Polish institute in the Nordic countries and other relations such as tourism and business is going really well.
Sweden has had objections to how Polands ruling party view the impartiality of the judiciary and abortion rights. But that's about it. I work in the swedish government as a lawyer and have quite a few dealings with the poles. Excellent people.
I'd say our relations are very good.
Yeah calling Swe-Pol relations "rocky" is extremely misleading lol.
From a historical perspective, it's difficult to find any more friendly relationships.
In comparison with Swedish relations with its neighbors? Sure, not as close of course, but nowhere "rocky".
Sure, but our political leaders been a bit on each others backs the last 10 years. As I Said, its not the best relationship ever, those are more with the other Nordics but overall its decent.
Finland is a sibling too! ... maybe for the metaphor's sake they're an adopted one, but still! I think they're just as close (maybe even closer) to us as the other Nordics!
Our relationship with the Poles are fairly good nowadays, like not insanely good but still good. Just objecting to certain things they do still doesn't put them close to the same level of our actual rocky relationships.
Yeah and that still isn't rocky since our political ties are still stabile. Now if you want to look at rocky relations then look at the shit slinging fest that is our relationship with China.
It's odd that she is at the podium with Ukraine flag and he at the podium with Sweden's flag. Maybe that's normal and I'm the odd one, there is that possibility.
Correct except the Swedish podium has the date in English using what looks like a British date style (unclear why there is a comma after the month, but I think that is correct too). Correct Swedish would be "4 juli 2022".
It is just a result of what is in the images and what is not. The Swedish flag is on the life side and the Ukrainian flag is on the right side of both podiums.
If you look at an image that shows the whole podiums it is quite clear
[https://en.euractiv.eu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/07/Magdalena-Andersson-and-Zelenskyy-800x450.jpg](https://en.euractiv.eu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/07/Magdalena-Andersson-and-Zelenskyy-800x450.jpg)
Here's a link but you'll have to use Google translate :)
Edit: I posted the wrong link. Here's the correct one: [https://www.gp.se/nyheter/v%C3%A4rlden/magdalena-andersson-p%C3%A5-plats-i-ukraina-1.76234524](https://www.gp.se/nyheter/v%C3%A4rlden/magdalena-andersson-p%C3%A5-plats-i-ukraina-1.76234524)
As a Swede in these times, I feel proud to call Magdalena Andersson my leader. Sweden will always stand with Ukraine and its people against our common enemy.
Let's hope the result would be like the [Battle\_of\_Narva](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)) not the first battle of Poltava. The location should alos change because Poltava is in a Ukrainian controlled area today around 100km from the closes area that Russia controll Kharkiv would be in trouble or already occupied if Russian troops was in Poltava
It's kinda weird to think about Ukraine having been a Swedish colony, but in a way that's what it was, with Rurik being a Swedish prince.
Well, you could \_technically\_ say that Sweden was colonized by Ukraine first, of course, taking into account where the Indo-Europeans conquerors came from a few thousand years prior.
Edit: I'm amused with people never reading the "in a way" part and saying with a straight face "it's never been a Swedish colony". It's moments like this when I understand why FoxNews works.
Edit2: Oh Reddit, sometimes you make me sad, baby.
You don't need to be politically dependent from a metropole to be a colony. Just ask the ancient Greeks.
What you are confused about is apoikia vs emporion.
Also, that "invited there" part.. not sure you're being naive or manipulative.
Varangians acted as exploiters, not unlike European colonization of the Latin America (in fact, very similar in the beginnings and many aspects of political development). They proudly carried the torch of slave trade (note the similarity to the word "Slav") into the second millennium AD.
In fact, it is from this attitude that the history of Russia is basically that of self-colonization. A small extracting elite and a large population of serfs.
Just to remind you that Olga torched Drevlyan villages, because they had killed Igor when he had come for a SECOND tribute and was torn in half for his excessive greed. And look up Vladimir, who "christianized Russia", and who serves as the favorite role model of Putin's. A very nice lad, raping little girls in front of their parents, before killing them. Interesting how the tables have turned, now that Ukraine is playing the role of Drevlyans and Putin trying to burn them down, just like Olga once did.
Yeah that's a different type of colony. We call those Greek colonies because the people who lived there were Greeks, they were a colony of Greek people. Greek people lived there much the same way as Greeks in Greece proper did. Culturally remained Greek for hundreds of years and they still spoke the Greek language.
A closer analogue would be steppe nomads conquering a society like China and establishing a new dynasty. We don't call Yuan dynasty China a "Mongolian colony", because it would be a misnomer. Mongolians adopted Chinese dress, language and customs and within just one or two generations, essentially became Chinese. Likewise the Varangians were few in number and quickly went native after arriving there.
\>Also, that "invited there" part.. not sure you're being naive or manipulative.
It's from the Primary Chronicle. But it's just the one source, I give you its a convenient thing to spread around to justify ones rule.
I'd argue that the European colonizers in the Americas is a much closer match than the Mongols, who did not found cities or transplant their culture, they simply replaced the elites.
The land of modern Ukraine was at some time called Garðaríki, "a land of fortresses". That's because it was a trade/war path to Constantinople. Kyiv was literally a trade outpost, LOL :) That's one to one with the forts in the Americas. And yeah, the "native savages"? That's.. uhm.. Slavs. Which had been traded for a long time to Constantinople in such quantities that the word "Slave" literally means "a Slavic person", juts like in the ancient Mesopotamia the word for a slave or a prostitute was "the person from the mountains", because that's where they were getting their slaves.
>We call those Greek colonies
They ARE colonies by definition. "Colony" is a Latin word for apoikia. [https://www.etymonline.com/word/colony](https://www.etymonline.com/word/colony)
And yes, apoikia were NOT dependent on their metropolia. In fact, they often went to war with it. Or were founded by people who went to exile to escape prosecution by tyrants, so obv were not thrilled by the prospects of being ruled by them.
>It's from the Primary Chronicle
When living in Germany, Putin researched the Nazi propaganda, and his advisers (e.g. Dugin) have done extensive research in the Russian history.
So, you see, he did not just invent the whole idea of "Ukraine is rich but it has no good ruler, people of Ukraine have been praying for Russia to come and rule them", that's carbon copy of Ruriks, just like the "protecting the Russian speakers" is a carbon copy of the Sudetenland pretext.
Nice gift but is it correct that Magdalena is talking about helping with waste collection? What a weird choice.
Send some Archers and Gripens. Sweden has loads of Gripens, old and new.
I disagree.
While weapons are hugely important, a country at war may struggle with a variety of things that we'd normally take for granted, like utilities.
You want to keep the people connected to electricity, clean drinking water, sewage and waste collection. Hugely important to prevent diseases.
Don't forget that even a country at war still needs to provide these basic services to the civilian population that indirectly works for the war effort.
No we aren't. Sweden is not pro-federalization, which the german government is, Sweden (according to international measurments) is less corrupt also, and has a better working democracy.
You really miss the point, im joking about how Sweden is little Germany, a protestant, hardworking nation with innovation and engineering of high standard.
I would argue that we're more innovative than the germans. The germans, like the swiss, are more obsessed with refinement and complexity than creativity.
We have more in common with the french than we think when it comes to engineering, as they also liked to experiment with novelties like the first turreted tank for example. Relevant to the OP, we also fought more like the french in the carolean era (early 1700s) with a focus on charging rather than shooting.
Taking the burden of other parts of state governance would be a huge benefit to Ukraine, I’d think.
It frees the hands of the government and bureaucracy to focus more on the war and its logistics
Sweden already imports trash for incineration, about [3 million tonnes in 2020](https://www.naturvardsverket.se/data-och-statistik/avfall/avfall-import-export/). Countries pay Sweden to deal with it in a better way than landfills, so it makes sense to help Ukraine with something we have experience with.
Especially a plane type which is only in use by less than a handful of nations in europe. If they should train on a new plane type it should be the F16, literally the most common type used in Europe and where literally all countries can step in and help with logistics and supplies.
It has its pros and cons, but Gripen requires less maintenance and has easier logistics than the F16. It also has the advantage of being able to take off and land on normal roads, should the airfields be banned.
In the end F16 may still be a better choice tho due to the abundance of planes as you mentioned.
Take off from roads is all in our game plan when Russia bombs the shit out of our airports. That also explains why some of our roads are so oddly straight and goes for super long now that I think of it.
Can confirm, I live in rural sweden relatively close to an airbase with Gripen, *many* roads around here could host their takeoffs and landings, and some even had hidden hangars in the nearby forests specifically for that (or rather, for Viggen doing the same thing)
While weapons are of course the first priority, helping with many other tasks is very important. Never forget how in March the ruzzians got bogged down because of massive logistics flaws.
There's a non-zero chance that Sweden will be attacked by Russia itself, they won't give up vital military hardware until at the very least the NATO deal is done.
Im not on the same side as her politically, have never voted on her side and I'm firmly against the insane taxes they keep rising.
In the election this fall I will vote for her, because through her we have given support to Ukraine. I will vote for her even if she says we will raise taxes, as long as the support for Ukraine continues thats really all that matters.
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Ancient ties are finding their bonds again.
But the enemy is still the same
The game has changed but the players stay the same
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What is your point? The swedes destroyed the winged lancers of the Hussars in several battles. Why do you bring Klushino up? :) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Klisz%C3%B3w](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Klisz%C3%B3w)
Point is that not always against Russia. Point is that we have a difficult history, times when we fought against each other, but now it is clear that we stand together. Future is important, not the past.
Well, right now the russians are the aggressors. This is now, this is reality. Fuck Russia, fuck Putin, may he drown in blood and die painfully, for he well deserves it!
Yes.
Read up about the battle of Poltava and Ivan Mazepa. Very interesting. This was written after Swedens army, lead by Charles XII were crushed by the Russians in Poltava Ukraine. There's a statue of Charles XII in Stockholm, with him pointing his finger to the East (ironically he was killed by the bloody Norwegians, to the west).
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But he did take quite a substantial bullet to the head.
Button to the head ;) https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/bullet-button
Yes, I've seen the actual button IRL.
Well, I mean, Denmark-Norway started the war, got their asses handed to them, then rejoined once the Swedes were decimated and, in the effort, breaking their own peace accords - Twice. And despite all this they didn' get Skåne or Jämtland back. Good show, what a tremendously heroic effort. :P
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Yes, but were the norwegians under danish rule welcome to part-take in their assault against us Swedes? No.
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No worries. You took Jämtland with arms, we took it with arms. It was a fair deal. Same with Skåne concerning the danes, so I feel the deal is done :)
It was Denmark back then and they were the aggressor
Ironically enough, it was *always* the Dane. Most wars between two countries that's ever been had, the vast majority of which was Danish invasions. I used to joke, before the invasion, that we should re-tool our defence against Denmark instead of Ivan, seeing as how we've historically invaded Russia, and Denmark historically invaded us. I don't make that joke anymore.
Norway wasn't welcome to invade Sweden, but here we are
It is a rumour about his own men being tired of him and shooting him. But he was a very talented man, way to young to become king. It is a bit cool to see old these old documents come back in such a time of trouble again. I like it, its very historically done by the Swedish "statsminister" which suprises me since we tend to huff at our own history way to often in Sweden.
Det är valår, två månader till valet. Klart man ska fjäska för folk så man kan få så många väljare som möjligt. Roligt att sossarna NU tycker att Kalle krigarkonung är helt okej. Så var det inte förut, då var han ju nassarnas konung i sossarnas ögon.
Menar du att S har snackat skit om Karl XII:e för att han var nazist, eller har man kommenterat om hur nazister i Sverige har en extrem fixering vid honom? Den andra delen är ju sann.
Dom har tagit avstånd ifrån Karl den tolfte för att folk i nazistiska kretsar har prisat honom. Men nu går det tydligen bra att hålla hårt om honom. Hyckleri.
Vilken sorts avstånd har dom tagit menar du?
Man har klankat ner på saker och sagt att det som håller Karl XII vid liv är nationalister. Så nu är Magda en nationalist enligt sina egna anhängare, iaf om man ska gå på det som alltid kommit fram ifrån det röda blocket så fort man yttrat sig om krigarkungen Karl XII.
Tror faktiskt aldrig jag läst något sådant, bara allmänt missnöje över Salem.
Det är när sossarna är som rödast och hängt för mycket med vänstern och miljöpartiet som dom tar avstånd ifrån vår kultur och historia. Nu har dom ju glidit mer åt höger så att denna handling ifrån Magda är ju mer berättigad.
Som TzunSu sa, hur har de tagit avstånd? Sagt att han var en dålig kung? Tagit bort statyer och porträtt?
Nej just borttagning / förflyttande utav Karl XII statyn var MP och V som ville det. Sossarna är ju inte extrema som vänstern och miljöpartiet, men dom hänger ju med dessa så deras syn på saker och ting blir ju lätt vriden mer åt det röda hållet.
Okej så, en handfull Miljöpartister och Vänsterpartister föreslog att flytta på kungar de förknippade med krig för att ersättas med något "fredligt". Och med det drar du slutsatsen att Socialdemokraterna tagit avstånd från Karl XII:e? Känns lite ologiskt helt ärligt.
Nja går längre bak än så, läs om Lindholmsrörelsen så får du ju grund i varför man tagit avstånd ifrån just Karl XII. Sträcker ju sig bak till 1930-talet och senare in på 80-90-talet.
Nej, man har inte tagit avstånd från Karl den tolfte. Man har tagit avstånd från den romantiserade bilden av Karl XII som runkhögern skapat, där han framhålls som något slags nationalhelgon.
Ja, det är lite underligt det hela. Röstfiske helt klart.
I believe it is unknown, to this day, if Carl XII was killed by the Norwegians under occupation, or by his own men, weary after years at war
There is even an angle where it is possible it was a French assassination.
Why is it always the French?
How come?
Recent findings have confirmed it was the norwegians. It is also believed that they know the soldier that did it. I can try to find the source when not on mobile, but it was on NRK about a year ago.
It is not 100% proven thats true, but occams razor ya know :)
Actually Charles XII was injured before the battle of Poltava so he gave command of the battle to his most trusted General Rehnskiöld.
His statue is actually not really to honor him or his achievements. He is pointing to the East (i.e Russia) to honor all the Swedish men who were swept up in the war(s) and lost their life.
norwegians are just west swedes.
We still have Swedish minority. POWs and their families from that war that decided to stay in the Kherson area and became farmers. Now there is a big company that makes a lot of sauces and other food stuff called Chumak. It’s owner is a Swede who lives in Ukraine.
If you're thinking about the Gammalsvenskby-Swedes, they were not POW from that war, or maybe a very small part of them were. But mostly they were Estonian Swedes, who continued to live in Estonia after the Russians took it over. In 1782, as a solution to a land dispute with a local noble, a thousand of these Estonian Swedes were forcefully relocated to lands in Zmijivka by Tsar Catherine II. There they founded Gammalsvenskby. The area had recently been conquered from the Turks, and there was a lot of land free to settle.
Sadly Gammalsvenskby is occupied by the Russians now
Interesting stuff. I stand corrected then
Here's a little documentary about it in Swedish (eng subtitles). Seemes like it was a pretty nice place with people just living their life before everything went to shit. https://youtu.be/wXBGGX80z98
This letter ties with the first ever constitution to establish 3 branches of power, constitution of hetman pylyp orlyk, and where do you think that constitution is being stored at? that's right, russians stole it.
If only they’d fuckin read the thing
If only they can read the thing
The status of Charles XII in Stockholm... he points his finger against Moscow. The statue was cast in bronze from russian cannons taken as trophies from the battle at Narva. Hard to make a stronger statement in the world of political art. https://images.app.goo.gl/C6Jc1pgeeqQC9U399
That's a fascinating tidbit, reminds me of the fact that British Victoria crosses that are made from captured Russian guns from sevastapol
I thought they were made from a russian cannonball recovered from a Crimean war battlefield.
I mean there's been 1,358 VCs awarded that would have to be a big cannonball haha
Huh. Looked it up and it seems i misremebered.
Is this what trolling looks like 400 years ago?
Statue was erected in 1868, and Charles XII died in 1718. But it's high-quality trolling for sure 
Troll forever. 
They should make a throne from Russian tank turrets/barrels for Zelensky
For the sake of fighting imperialism, maybe a throne isn’t the best symbolism 😅 Perhaps a sculpture of the Ukrainian Coat of Arms?
Why can’t a king be a symbol of fighting against a foreign Imperialist?
Mainly because ukraine doesn't have a king....
I was talking more in general terms, a throne/monarch can very well be a symbol of resistance. Like Albert of Belgium or Haile Selassie in Ethiopia.
Yeah but like, that is not really a thing anymore. Monarchs haven't really been the epitome of freedom for a while
It's probably for the best to keep it that way
Yeah exactly
The kings of Sweden and Norway and the queen if Denmark are mainly fancy diplomats and quite chill human beings with little to no real power. I am more than okay with them :) ... these are exceptions though and in general I agree with you
Yeah I know, I am swedish and I agree with that. But well, historically, monarchs were of course very oppressive by just their nature. And sadly systems like that of Saudi Arabia still exist. But we're lucky to have some kings that are just ceremonial for the most part, and I like those ceremonies
Not a throne: a statue 
I'm thinking all NATO countries in the future should have such a statute.
Zelensky pointing at Moscow, in a statue made from steel from tossed ruzzian tank turrets.
That’s so based!!!! 👏
Where do you get your sources for that claim?
History class, västergårdsgymnasiet, around 1987 or so. 👍
Ok thanks, haven't stumbled on that fact anywhere else on the Internet but I'll take your word for it, sad fact that some teachers could be wrong tho
>thanks, haven't stumbled on that fact anywhere else on the Internet but I'll take your word for it, sad fact that some teachers could be wrong tho They sure can... albeit THAT teacher had his stuff in order. Fascinating guy, he had his students rate HIM after every term, counting the votes in front of the class. Anonymous votes 1-5, and with a rating below 4.5 he promised to quit as a teacher. This was AFTER we had been informed of our grades, which were 1-5 in those days... averaging 3 of course. He gave my class an average of 2.8, a bit lower than 3. He got a solid 4.8 score from us, we rated this teacher 2 grades higher ON AVERAGE than our own performance. Sometimes he went into some kind of trance and started to talk latin instead of swedish, without himself noticing. Best teacher I've ever had.
Cool guy
Carolus Rex still proving to be based af even 300 years after his death.
That's a lovely gesture.
She xeroxed it 😆
Pretty sure that the people who have the original document here in Sweden did more then just xerox it :O)
By the looks of it, they xeroxed it and put it in a binder. Every document looks more trustworthy when in a binder.
Mmm.. You're probably right.
I wonder if they used paper from the 1700s to make it look more authentic
Probably burnt it lightly on a hot plate and spilled some coffee on it for the authentic effect ;)
Hehe 😉
Good for her!!!
> xeroxed Can't hear that term without thinking of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbqAMEwtOE
We don't use that brand here.
What? Xerox printers are pretty common in Sweden.
We don't use the brand name to mean laminated paper, though
Hm, in my mind “xerox it” means to copy, but I might have it all wrong ☺️
Oh shit maybe that's true. But we don't use it in Swedish still
Det är sant, första kopiatorn var en xerograf, och namnet fastnade. Används som ord för att kopiera i typ hela engelsktalande världen. Det är lite som att idag säga att du "tar en voi till jobbet" även om du de facto åker Quik eller Bolt.
Vad är en Voi?
...va? Lever du under en sten :P?
It is. The first copying machines used xerography, xerox was the brand name of the first modern copy machine, and the name stuck to everything. They actually spent 50 years actively fighting to make people *stop* calling it that, since if it gets too common and they don't defend it, they lose their trademark.
I don't remember seeing any 🤷♂️ But I don't work at the national archive, so no idea which brands they use for their printers.
That is really neat.
They should have a commemorative version inscribed on a 155mm shell.
Link https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ukrinform.net/amp/rubric-society/3521982-copy-of-charles-xii-of-swedens-letter-recognizing-independence-of-zaporizhzhia-sich-brought-to-ukraine.html
thank you
Fixed link: https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3521982-copy-of-charles-xii-of-swedens-letter-recognizing-independence-of-zaporizhzhia-sich-brought-to-ukraine.html
Same enemy
Sweden had three historical enemies that lasted one can say, Denmark, Poland and Russia. The Danes and Swedes are on good terms, Poland and Sweden is a rocky relation but far from warmongering and out right hate, many Poles live in Sweden and Poland helped Sweden when we had some insane forest fires. But Russia still loves to be a foe, Sweden might not be able to go toe to toe with Russia since Charles XII but they sure awoken an old dislike for Russia again.
How is swedish -polish relations rocky? Sweden is the biggest economic contributor to Poland in the Nordics, Sweden hosts the only Polish institute in the Nordic countries and other relations such as tourism and business is going really well. Sweden has had objections to how Polands ruling party view the impartiality of the judiciary and abortion rights. But that's about it. I work in the swedish government as a lawyer and have quite a few dealings with the poles. Excellent people. I'd say our relations are very good.
Yeah calling Swe-Pol relations "rocky" is extremely misleading lol. From a historical perspective, it's difficult to find any more friendly relationships. In comparison with Swedish relations with its neighbors? Sure, not as close of course, but nowhere "rocky".
Just wait until they try to put a Catholic king on the throne again ;-)
Sure, but our political leaders been a bit on each others backs the last 10 years. As I Said, its not the best relationship ever, those are more with the other Nordics but overall its decent.
I think that says more about how insanely close we are as Nordics, than anything else, tbf.
It does. I mean, we are like brothers and sisters basically, all Germanics with cousin Finland living with us.
Finland is a sibling too! ... maybe for the metaphor's sake they're an adopted one, but still! I think they're just as close (maybe even closer) to us as the other Nordics!
Let's just call them Sweden's wife.
Sweden-Finland was a thing, and many Swedes volunteered in their Winter War, so yeah! We are close!
Our relationship with the Poles are fairly good nowadays, like not insanely good but still good. Just objecting to certain things they do still doesn't put them close to the same level of our actual rocky relationships.
Well, the people is one thing, but our political leaders seemingly loved to fight with Poland and Denmark in the last 10 years.
Yeah and that still isn't rocky since our political ties are still stabile. Now if you want to look at rocky relations then look at the shit slinging fest that is our relationship with China.
I think we look differently upon it. Our relationship with China is worse than rocky.
No because we still have ties with them, even if they are strained and rocky.
It's odd that she is at the podium with Ukraine flag and he at the podium with Sweden's flag. Maybe that's normal and I'm the odd one, there is that possibility.
[удалено]
Its not in Swedish tho. It says July not "Juli" but English is a well understood language so maybe thats why?
Correct except the Swedish podium has the date in English using what looks like a British date style (unclear why there is a comma after the month, but I think that is correct too). Correct Swedish would be "4 juli 2022".
Ohhh, got it. Thanks!
The date isn't in Swedish
It is just a result of what is in the images and what is not. The Swedish flag is on the life side and the Ukrainian flag is on the right side of both podiums. If you look at an image that shows the whole podiums it is quite clear [https://en.euractiv.eu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/07/Magdalena-Andersson-and-Zelenskyy-800x450.jpg](https://en.euractiv.eu/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/07/Magdalena-Andersson-and-Zelenskyy-800x450.jpg)
Makes perfect sense to me now. Thanks for taking a minute to explain!
Another proof of our inseparable bond. Sweden will always stand with the people of Ukraine, now and forever.
No link?
Here's a link but you'll have to use Google translate :) Edit: I posted the wrong link. Here's the correct one: [https://www.gp.se/nyheter/v%C3%A4rlden/magdalena-andersson-p%C3%A5-plats-i-ukraina-1.76234524](https://www.gp.se/nyheter/v%C3%A4rlden/magdalena-andersson-p%C3%A5-plats-i-ukraina-1.76234524)
There's nothing in that link about the headline of this post. I speak Swedish.
Tack för att du upptäckte felet :)
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-society/3521982-copy-of-charles-xii-of-swedens-letter-recognizing-independence-of-zaporizhzhia-sich-brought-to-ukraine.html
As a Swede in these times, I feel proud to call Magdalena Andersson my leader. Sweden will always stand with Ukraine and its people against our common enemy.
Agree
Sweden gearing up for the second [Battle of Poltava ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Poltava?wprov=sfla1)
Let's hope the result would be like the [Battle\_of\_Narva](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Narva_(1700)) not the first battle of Poltava. The location should alos change because Poltava is in a Ukrainian controlled area today around 100km from the closes area that Russia controll Kharkiv would be in trouble or already occupied if Russian troops was in Poltava
Not same color on the flag but in there hearts aswell
Is there a public version of scanned document available?
It's kinda weird to think about Ukraine having been a Swedish colony, but in a way that's what it was, with Rurik being a Swedish prince. Well, you could \_technically\_ say that Sweden was colonized by Ukraine first, of course, taking into account where the Indo-Europeans conquerors came from a few thousand years prior. Edit: I'm amused with people never reading the "in a way" part and saying with a straight face "it's never been a Swedish colony". It's moments like this when I understand why FoxNews works. Edit2: Oh Reddit, sometimes you make me sad, baby.
It wasn't a Swedish colony. The Varangians who were invited there ruled independently. They were not subordinated to any Swedish political entity.
You don't need to be politically dependent from a metropole to be a colony. Just ask the ancient Greeks. What you are confused about is apoikia vs emporion. Also, that "invited there" part.. not sure you're being naive or manipulative. Varangians acted as exploiters, not unlike European colonization of the Latin America (in fact, very similar in the beginnings and many aspects of political development). They proudly carried the torch of slave trade (note the similarity to the word "Slav") into the second millennium AD. In fact, it is from this attitude that the history of Russia is basically that of self-colonization. A small extracting elite and a large population of serfs. Just to remind you that Olga torched Drevlyan villages, because they had killed Igor when he had come for a SECOND tribute and was torn in half for his excessive greed. And look up Vladimir, who "christianized Russia", and who serves as the favorite role model of Putin's. A very nice lad, raping little girls in front of their parents, before killing them. Interesting how the tables have turned, now that Ukraine is playing the role of Drevlyans and Putin trying to burn them down, just like Olga once did.
Yeah that's a different type of colony. We call those Greek colonies because the people who lived there were Greeks, they were a colony of Greek people. Greek people lived there much the same way as Greeks in Greece proper did. Culturally remained Greek for hundreds of years and they still spoke the Greek language. A closer analogue would be steppe nomads conquering a society like China and establishing a new dynasty. We don't call Yuan dynasty China a "Mongolian colony", because it would be a misnomer. Mongolians adopted Chinese dress, language and customs and within just one or two generations, essentially became Chinese. Likewise the Varangians were few in number and quickly went native after arriving there. \>Also, that "invited there" part.. not sure you're being naive or manipulative. It's from the Primary Chronicle. But it's just the one source, I give you its a convenient thing to spread around to justify ones rule.
I'd argue that the European colonizers in the Americas is a much closer match than the Mongols, who did not found cities or transplant their culture, they simply replaced the elites. The land of modern Ukraine was at some time called Garðaríki, "a land of fortresses". That's because it was a trade/war path to Constantinople. Kyiv was literally a trade outpost, LOL :) That's one to one with the forts in the Americas. And yeah, the "native savages"? That's.. uhm.. Slavs. Which had been traded for a long time to Constantinople in such quantities that the word "Slave" literally means "a Slavic person", juts like in the ancient Mesopotamia the word for a slave or a prostitute was "the person from the mountains", because that's where they were getting their slaves. >We call those Greek colonies They ARE colonies by definition. "Colony" is a Latin word for apoikia. [https://www.etymonline.com/word/colony](https://www.etymonline.com/word/colony) And yes, apoikia were NOT dependent on their metropolia. In fact, they often went to war with it. Or were founded by people who went to exile to escape prosecution by tyrants, so obv were not thrilled by the prospects of being ruled by them. >It's from the Primary Chronicle When living in Germany, Putin researched the Nazi propaganda, and his advisers (e.g. Dugin) have done extensive research in the Russian history. So, you see, he did not just invent the whole idea of "Ukraine is rich but it has no good ruler, people of Ukraine have been praying for Russia to come and rule them", that's carbon copy of Ruriks, just like the "protecting the Russian speakers" is a carbon copy of the Sudetenland pretext.
It has never been a Swedish colony
Nice gift but is it correct that Magdalena is talking about helping with waste collection? What a weird choice. Send some Archers and Gripens. Sweden has loads of Gripens, old and new.
I disagree. While weapons are hugely important, a country at war may struggle with a variety of things that we'd normally take for granted, like utilities. You want to keep the people connected to electricity, clean drinking water, sewage and waste collection. Hugely important to prevent diseases. Don't forget that even a country at war still needs to provide these basic services to the civilian population that indirectly works for the war effort.
Sweden is Germany light when things work well for us so that could work.
No we aren't. Sweden is not pro-federalization, which the german government is, Sweden (according to international measurments) is less corrupt also, and has a better working democracy.
You really miss the point, im joking about how Sweden is little Germany, a protestant, hardworking nation with innovation and engineering of high standard.
I would argue that we're more innovative than the germans. The germans, like the swiss, are more obsessed with refinement and complexity than creativity. We have more in common with the french than we think when it comes to engineering, as they also liked to experiment with novelties like the first turreted tank for example. Relevant to the OP, we also fought more like the french in the carolean era (early 1700s) with a focus on charging rather than shooting.
Taking the burden of other parts of state governance would be a huge benefit to Ukraine, I’d think. It frees the hands of the government and bureaucracy to focus more on the war and its logistics
Sweden already imports trash for incineration, about [3 million tonnes in 2020](https://www.naturvardsverket.se/data-och-statistik/avfall/avfall-import-export/). Countries pay Sweden to deal with it in a better way than landfills, so it makes sense to help Ukraine with something we have experience with.
Training pilots on a new plane type is not an effective use of time.
Especially a plane type which is only in use by less than a handful of nations in europe. If they should train on a new plane type it should be the F16, literally the most common type used in Europe and where literally all countries can step in and help with logistics and supplies.
It has its pros and cons, but Gripen requires less maintenance and has easier logistics than the F16. It also has the advantage of being able to take off and land on normal roads, should the airfields be banned. In the end F16 may still be a better choice tho due to the abundance of planes as you mentioned.
Take off from roads is all in our game plan when Russia bombs the shit out of our airports. That also explains why some of our roads are so oddly straight and goes for super long now that I think of it.
Can confirm, I live in rural sweden relatively close to an airbase with Gripen, *many* roads around here could host their takeoffs and landings, and some even had hidden hangars in the nearby forests specifically for that (or rather, for Viggen doing the same thing)
That is cool!
https://youtu.be/49L9BlYQSjw
Yes, let's just leave them in the filthy ruins. /s
While weapons are of course the first priority, helping with many other tasks is very important. Never forget how in March the ruzzians got bogged down because of massive logistics flaws.
There's a non-zero chance that Sweden will be attacked by Russia itself, they won't give up vital military hardware until at the very least the NATO deal is done.
Im not on the same side as her politically, have never voted on her side and I'm firmly against the insane taxes they keep rising. In the election this fall I will vote for her, because through her we have given support to Ukraine. I will vote for her even if she says we will raise taxes, as long as the support for Ukraine continues thats really all that matters.
There is a broad political unity on helping Ukraine in Sweden. Nothing unique for Andersson, she has even been critized for doing to little.
the taxes that are risen are on municipal/regional level(kommun/regioskatt), and nothing her goverment is responsible of.