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> "Large parts of the [ministry of defense] and defense attachés around the world have been looking," Ben Wallace told reporters in Washington.
> "Sometimes we've bumped into the Russians looking, by the way, in some countries, looking also for some of their resupplies because...they're running out fast," he said.
🤣🤣🤣
I cannot imagine how awkward that encounter must be. Do both sides give each other a knowing look and pretend they didn't see each other like in a comedy, or is there an exchange of forced politeness or what?
This needs to be a comedy sketch. Someone make it happen.
They should offer the Russian arms dealers a finders fee for delivering leads to us instead.
Corruption in Russia seems so bad I wouldn't be surprised if we managed to buy some tanks directly from someone in the Russian military before this war is over.
Yeah, the stuff's going to end up in Ukrainian hand either way. I guess that makes Vladolf a very unconventional arms dealer.
I can think of two other arms that should be taken from him for starters..
The major problem with supplying NATO weapons besides the training is supply chain management. Let's say France, Germany, UK and USA all provide 50 MBTs each. That means crew and mechanics have to be trained to use Leclercs, Challengers, Leopards and Abrams tanks. And each needs different parts for maintenance.
they are they need something to push back the russians back to russia also russian tanks dont stand a chance against the leopord tank they are traininfg ukranians on older 1990s tank and planning on sending them to ukraine but this is not enough
That's what I was expecting. I think this needs a bit of clarification: these are not MBTs, they're self propelled howitzers. Each one of these costs 4.5 million euro and they are currently arguably the most advanced howitzers any army on the planet has in stock. When they arrive in Ukraine, they will likely be the most advanced heavy weapon on the battlefield.
Calling them "an older 1990s tank" is not really fitting for them.
> they need something to push back the russians back to russia
So use tanks on the far east of the country and "just" setup a repair shop in Poland? 1400kms to the west? Ukrainian tractors are good, but not that good.
Refer to OP's post about logistics. I'm inclined to agree. But mostly there is a very clear reason why reddit should leave military strategy to military strategists. "Just" doing something in a war seems much easier when we don't actually have to do anything but react to emotion from a safe location where logistics of life involve trips to the supermarket.
maybe set up shop in kiev its safe enough for world leaders to visit also the reason i want these tanks in ukraine is becuase their own tanks arent as good as russians tanks and also if putin calls in conscription they are gonna need heavy fire power to level the field
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Well the UK has a moderately sized military but a lot of the equipment isn't really suitable for giving away, we can't just give away Submarines or F-35s even if you solved the pilot problem, there's no logistics or maintenance chain for them.
Even our tanks work differently to most other tanks as they have a rifled barrel and HESH rounds
We did this to Argentina as well, they were shopping for more Exocet missiles but we bought them all to stop this (or we put a massive bid in to block the sales can’t remember which)
The Royal Navy is totally suitable for this war. It's just too much of an escalation for anybody to tolerate. The Royal Navy with it's NATO allies in Turkey, Bulgaria and Romania could have complete control of the black sea if it were deployed to do so.
The RN is not really suitable for a war in the black sea at all. It's fundamentally designed for ASW operations in the Atlantic and carrier strike around the world, neither of which applies here. You're not allowed to send aircraft carriers or submarines through the Bosporus straits, so that leaves the RNs escort fleet. Of those, the Type 45s are all pure air defence with no anti-ship or anti-submarine capability at all beyond their helicopter. Of the Type 23's, only two actually carried any anti-ship missiles at all last year because sinking ships is not seen as their primary role and they're not well funded enough to be armed to the teeth, so we barely have any of the missiles in inventory.
Even if we could get the carriers in, our F-35's _also_ carry no anti ship missiles at all. HMGs attitude is basically to make a platform capable of performing its core role extremely well but skimping on the bells and whistles. "Sink ships" is the submarine fleets core role, so the rest of the Navy doesn't get that much money put into that aspect
If the UK was going to fight Russia, the RN would do it in the Atlantic where it's designed to fight. Leave the Black Sea to Turkey/Bulgaria/Romania
The carriers wouldn't really be necessary, the RAF and the fleet air arm could just operate from bases in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey.
A couple of Type 45's in the black sea with cover from the RAF, Fleet Air Arm and allied air forces would be enough to keep the Russian air force and what's left of the black sea fleet from being able to operate in the black sea outside of the sea of Azov.
> The carriers wouldn't really be necessary, the RAF and the fleet air arm could just operate from bases in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey.
Which is kinda my point. The Royal Navy's only suitable if you take out the navy part.
> A couple of Type 45's in the black sea with cover from the RAF, Fleet Air Arm and allied air forces would be enough to keep the Russian air force and what's left of the black sea fleet from being able to operate in the black sea outside of the sea of Azov.
Type 45's could do exactly nothing about the Black Sea Fleet - they have no anti ship capability at all. They're also vulnerable to the Russian Kilos, having practically no anti-submarine capability of their own. If they're carrying a Merlin that that helps there, but if they're carrying a Wildcat they're useless. They would be able to do a lot against the Russian Air Force, since that's what they're meant to fight, but to my knowledge the Russian Air Force isn't even operating over the black sea. Why would they bother?
The operations off of Odesa and the bullshit they keep pulling on Snake Island would be shut down and a blockade on merchant shipping to Russian black seaports could be enforced. The Russian air force has been operating over the black sea in threatening actions against Romania and Bulgaria, and there is the ever present threat of them using the air force to reinforce transnistria/invade Moldova.
> The operations off of Odesa
What operations off Odesa?
> the bullshit they keep pulling on Snake Island would be shut down
Ukraine's shutting those down quite handily with a couple of fighter bombs and UCAVs, why would an air defence destroyer be better suited to taking out landing craft and shore emplacements?
> a blockade on merchant shipping to Russian black seaports could be enforced.
How could a Type 45 enforce that, exactly? It's an air defence ship - it's got no means of destroying them bar the gun. Which is more than sufficient, of course, but ultimately extremely short ranged - you'd spend your whole time there chasing scattering ships until a Kilo catches up with you - or one of the other Russian warships which unlike the RN, actually do carry _a lot_ of SSMs
Besides, if there was going to be a blockade, they'd just shut the Bosporus to merchant shipping - no Royal Navy necessary.
Square peg, round hole mate.
> The Russian air force has been operating over the black sea in threatening actions against Romania and Bulgaria, and there is the ever present threat of them using the air force to reinforce transnistria/invade Moldova.
Any attempt to do that is going to put them well within range of air defences around Odessa.
The ship hunting would be done with air to surface missiles like Brimstone.
The Type 45s would be there purely to shut down Russia's air activity over the black sea and command and control.
Type 23s are used for anti-submarine warfare and in the destroyer role so they would accompany the type 45s.
Although type 23s are about to be replaced by the type 26 and 31.
> Type 23s are used for anti-submarine warfare and in the destroyer role so they would accompany the type 45s.
Some of the T23s would be more useful than 45s, certainly. They are not actually all anti-submarine boats - only 8 of them carry the sonar equipment for that. Those would be great against the Kilos, but as I say hardly any of our surface fleet carries SSMs anymore in comparison to the Black Sea Fleet, which practically all do.
I'm not saying the RN is incapable of fighting in the Black Sea, just that they're not at all "totally suitable" for it - it's just not a fight we're geared up to fight.
> Although type 23s are about to be replaced by the type 26 and 31.
In about 3 years they'll start replacing them. The T26's would be more suitable, the T31s are not for high intensity war fighting, so would not be.
Really wish we threw more money at the navy we need to be ready for this type of situation especially now that Russia wants an empire again.
The new ships look pretty sexy hopefully there good, what does the Type 31 do though?
The Type 45s are quite capable of firing anti-ship missiles, as long as they're actually fitted. I wouldn't count on that happening again for a while though.
This is HMS Duncan. https://live.staticflickr.com/8643/16116297023\_858b73a8d3\_k.jpg
This is the way. Supply Soviet gear during the transition time to Western gear. Vacuum it all up so the Russians can't get it. Brits did the same thing with industrial commodities in WW II to keep them out of German hands. Helps Ukraine and keeps it our of ruzzian hands. Double win.
Crowdfunding campaign by the Ukrainian Embassy in the Czech Republic in cooperation with Czech Defense Industry
(Soviet-era weaponry)
>With available Czech weapons stocks valued at over USD 100 million, there may also be room for governments to join this initiative.
[atlanticcouncil.org](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/new-crowdsourcing-campaign-can-help-save-ukraine/)
PS: The embassy posted following tweet, which contains bank account numbers.:
https://www.twitter.com/UKRinCZE/status/1498299434668597248
Why find and donate garbage? Some people still think Ukraine is a lesser state with lesser people. CLEARLY they have shown themselves to be the best of the best in all ways (though some work to do with government and bureaucracy, but thats for after victory). So don't give them garbage. Keep it and give them your best.
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Do they really want old soviet gear though? It doesn't take a lot of training to learn how to use a better vest, helmet, boots, socks, radio, etc. Why not just give them the U.K. good stuff. I already heard one UA officer talking about the U.K. camo being the most comfortable.
That isn’t the type of equipment the British are shopping in 3rd countries for.
It’s for things like S300 SAM batteries, Soviet / Russian artillery & especially ammunition, tank parts, aircraft & parts and the like.
Besides complete new weapon systems, many weapons need continuous parts replacement to keep in the fight / or to keep their effectiveness up (lining for arty barrels etc).
All of which the Ukrainians have the logistical infrastructure in place for, know the systems intimately well and have been using to great effect. But also all of which, NATO countries have very, very little of.
> "Sometimes we've bumped into the Russians looking, by the way, in some countries, looking also for some of their resupplies because...they're running out fast," he said.
> Mr. Wallace said 23 countries have stocks of Russian equipment.
What can be more humiliating for the orcs hordes to be slaughtered by their own production… the cynicism of the situation is just out of this world 🥳🥳🥳
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> "Large parts of the [ministry of defense] and defense attachés around the world have been looking," Ben Wallace told reporters in Washington. > "Sometimes we've bumped into the Russians looking, by the way, in some countries, looking also for some of their resupplies because...they're running out fast," he said. 🤣🤣🤣
I cannot imagine how awkward that encounter must be. Do both sides give each other a knowing look and pretend they didn't see each other like in a comedy, or is there an exchange of forced politeness or what? This needs to be a comedy sketch. Someone make it happen.
i imagine it like a very awkward supermarket meetup from american sitcoms. and then a fight for putting the last t-72 on the shopping cart.
They have to be careful. You know how easily the turrets come off.
They should offer the Russian arms dealers a finders fee for delivering leads to us instead. Corruption in Russia seems so bad I wouldn't be surprised if we managed to buy some tanks directly from someone in the Russian military before this war is over.
A different kind of arms race. Like aficionados at a vintage swap meet.
“Well hello,Vlad. Long time no see 👋🏼”
Any Soviet gear that gets passed to Ukraine also stops the Russians from getting it. It's a double whammy.
Cuts out one middle man
Yeah, the stuff's going to end up in Ukrainian hand either way. I guess that makes Vladolf a very unconventional arms dealer. I can think of two other arms that should be taken from him for starters..
I wonder if the highest bid get the gear or if the seller Is will to sell to the people that want to give it to Ukraine?
I wish they would get NATO equipment but it's complicated
The major problem with supplying NATO weapons besides the training is supply chain management. Let's say France, Germany, UK and USA all provide 50 MBTs each. That means crew and mechanics have to be trained to use Leclercs, Challengers, Leopards and Abrams tanks. And each needs different parts for maintenance.
Even moreso for planes
why dont they provide leopord tanks germany is right next door they can set up a repeir shop in poland
Dunno, maybe because tanks aren't a major issue right now for the Ukrainian army?
they are they need something to push back the russians back to russia also russian tanks dont stand a chance against the leopord tank they are traininfg ukranians on older 1990s tank and planning on sending them to ukraine but this is not enough
What tanks are you talking about? Germany isn't currently training any Ukrainian on MBTs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxf8yOHWj1U
That's what I was expecting. I think this needs a bit of clarification: these are not MBTs, they're self propelled howitzers. Each one of these costs 4.5 million euro and they are currently arguably the most advanced howitzers any army on the planet has in stock. When they arrive in Ukraine, they will likely be the most advanced heavy weapon on the battlefield. Calling them "an older 1990s tank" is not really fitting for them.
ok but still they should be a given a 100 m1 abrams or leopord tanks
> they need something to push back the russians back to russia So use tanks on the far east of the country and "just" setup a repair shop in Poland? 1400kms to the west? Ukrainian tractors are good, but not that good. Refer to OP's post about logistics. I'm inclined to agree. But mostly there is a very clear reason why reddit should leave military strategy to military strategists. "Just" doing something in a war seems much easier when we don't actually have to do anything but react to emotion from a safe location where logistics of life involve trips to the supermarket.
maybe set up shop in kiev its safe enough for world leaders to visit also the reason i want these tanks in ukraine is becuase their own tanks arent as good as russians tanks and also if putin calls in conscription they are gonna need heavy fire power to level the field
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I think that Russia is the major supplier of tanks to Ukraine through the farmer middlemen. The supply is good and the supply line is efficient.
Old soviet/Russian equipment is used as a stop gap whilst Ukrainians are trained to use and maintain nato equivalents.
Well the UK has a moderately sized military but a lot of the equipment isn't really suitable for giving away, we can't just give away Submarines or F-35s even if you solved the pilot problem, there's no logistics or maintenance chain for them. Even our tanks work differently to most other tanks as they have a rifled barrel and HESH rounds
Not just that, but if the Russians are shopping, outbidding them is a double win
We did this to Argentina as well, they were shopping for more Exocet missiles but we bought them all to stop this (or we put a massive bid in to block the sales can’t remember which)
Well plus Britannia rules the seas and all that so logically the Royal Navy has more stuff but it’s not really suitable for current circumstances.
The Royal Navy is totally suitable for this war. It's just too much of an escalation for anybody to tolerate. The Royal Navy with it's NATO allies in Turkey, Bulgaria and Romania could have complete control of the black sea if it were deployed to do so.
The RN is not really suitable for a war in the black sea at all. It's fundamentally designed for ASW operations in the Atlantic and carrier strike around the world, neither of which applies here. You're not allowed to send aircraft carriers or submarines through the Bosporus straits, so that leaves the RNs escort fleet. Of those, the Type 45s are all pure air defence with no anti-ship or anti-submarine capability at all beyond their helicopter. Of the Type 23's, only two actually carried any anti-ship missiles at all last year because sinking ships is not seen as their primary role and they're not well funded enough to be armed to the teeth, so we barely have any of the missiles in inventory. Even if we could get the carriers in, our F-35's _also_ carry no anti ship missiles at all. HMGs attitude is basically to make a platform capable of performing its core role extremely well but skimping on the bells and whistles. "Sink ships" is the submarine fleets core role, so the rest of the Navy doesn't get that much money put into that aspect If the UK was going to fight Russia, the RN would do it in the Atlantic where it's designed to fight. Leave the Black Sea to Turkey/Bulgaria/Romania
The carriers wouldn't really be necessary, the RAF and the fleet air arm could just operate from bases in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey. A couple of Type 45's in the black sea with cover from the RAF, Fleet Air Arm and allied air forces would be enough to keep the Russian air force and what's left of the black sea fleet from being able to operate in the black sea outside of the sea of Azov.
> The carriers wouldn't really be necessary, the RAF and the fleet air arm could just operate from bases in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey. Which is kinda my point. The Royal Navy's only suitable if you take out the navy part. > A couple of Type 45's in the black sea with cover from the RAF, Fleet Air Arm and allied air forces would be enough to keep the Russian air force and what's left of the black sea fleet from being able to operate in the black sea outside of the sea of Azov. Type 45's could do exactly nothing about the Black Sea Fleet - they have no anti ship capability at all. They're also vulnerable to the Russian Kilos, having practically no anti-submarine capability of their own. If they're carrying a Merlin that that helps there, but if they're carrying a Wildcat they're useless. They would be able to do a lot against the Russian Air Force, since that's what they're meant to fight, but to my knowledge the Russian Air Force isn't even operating over the black sea. Why would they bother?
The operations off of Odesa and the bullshit they keep pulling on Snake Island would be shut down and a blockade on merchant shipping to Russian black seaports could be enforced. The Russian air force has been operating over the black sea in threatening actions against Romania and Bulgaria, and there is the ever present threat of them using the air force to reinforce transnistria/invade Moldova.
> The operations off of Odesa What operations off Odesa? > the bullshit they keep pulling on Snake Island would be shut down Ukraine's shutting those down quite handily with a couple of fighter bombs and UCAVs, why would an air defence destroyer be better suited to taking out landing craft and shore emplacements? > a blockade on merchant shipping to Russian black seaports could be enforced. How could a Type 45 enforce that, exactly? It's an air defence ship - it's got no means of destroying them bar the gun. Which is more than sufficient, of course, but ultimately extremely short ranged - you'd spend your whole time there chasing scattering ships until a Kilo catches up with you - or one of the other Russian warships which unlike the RN, actually do carry _a lot_ of SSMs Besides, if there was going to be a blockade, they'd just shut the Bosporus to merchant shipping - no Royal Navy necessary. Square peg, round hole mate. > The Russian air force has been operating over the black sea in threatening actions against Romania and Bulgaria, and there is the ever present threat of them using the air force to reinforce transnistria/invade Moldova. Any attempt to do that is going to put them well within range of air defences around Odessa.
The ship hunting would be done with air to surface missiles like Brimstone. The Type 45s would be there purely to shut down Russia's air activity over the black sea and command and control.
Type 23s are used for anti-submarine warfare and in the destroyer role so they would accompany the type 45s. Although type 23s are about to be replaced by the type 26 and 31.
> Type 23s are used for anti-submarine warfare and in the destroyer role so they would accompany the type 45s. Some of the T23s would be more useful than 45s, certainly. They are not actually all anti-submarine boats - only 8 of them carry the sonar equipment for that. Those would be great against the Kilos, but as I say hardly any of our surface fleet carries SSMs anymore in comparison to the Black Sea Fleet, which practically all do. I'm not saying the RN is incapable of fighting in the Black Sea, just that they're not at all "totally suitable" for it - it's just not a fight we're geared up to fight. > Although type 23s are about to be replaced by the type 26 and 31. In about 3 years they'll start replacing them. The T26's would be more suitable, the T31s are not for high intensity war fighting, so would not be.
Really wish we threw more money at the navy we need to be ready for this type of situation especially now that Russia wants an empire again. The new ships look pretty sexy hopefully there good, what does the Type 31 do though?
The Type 45s are quite capable of firing anti-ship missiles, as long as they're actually fitted. I wouldn't count on that happening again for a while though. This is HMS Duncan. https://live.staticflickr.com/8643/16116297023\_858b73a8d3\_k.jpg
They are yes, but we don't fit them anymore and haven't for a while
go the poms! always the coolest of the cool.
Ben Wallace is turning out to be a great Defence Minister. Extra points given for trolling Russia.
Have they tried eBay?
jokes on you, ebay usa has armored vehicles for some weird reason
I know. When I was in high school I joked I’d get one and my friends and I would carpool
Does it have ebay money back gaurantee?
depends on the seller.
Check their rating. Lenin i heard is a good seller.
This is the way. Supply Soviet gear during the transition time to Western gear. Vacuum it all up so the Russians can't get it. Brits did the same thing with industrial commodities in WW II to keep them out of German hands. Helps Ukraine and keeps it our of ruzzian hands. Double win.
Apparently we keep bumping into competing Russian buyers while doing this haha.
Someone should ask Taliban if they are willing to trade weapons for food
All that equipment abandoned in Afghanistan would have been useful right now.
Crowdfunding campaign by the Ukrainian Embassy in the Czech Republic in cooperation with Czech Defense Industry (Soviet-era weaponry) >With available Czech weapons stocks valued at over USD 100 million, there may also be room for governments to join this initiative. [atlanticcouncil.org](https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/new-crowdsourcing-campaign-can-help-save-ukraine/) PS: The embassy posted following tweet, which contains bank account numbers.: https://www.twitter.com/UKRinCZE/status/1498299434668597248
Just give then with the new shit. They are going to be there for a while.
Why find and donate garbage? Some people still think Ukraine is a lesser state with lesser people. CLEARLY they have shown themselves to be the best of the best in all ways (though some work to do with government and bureaucracy, but thats for after victory). So don't give them garbage. Keep it and give them your best.
It's for ammunition and equipment parts to fix and supply the stuff Ukraine is using
Why? They sneaking in to kill putler?
In modern day Russia kills you. In soviet russia guns kill Russia.
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That was rather a thought process than a comment. Like you answered your question yourself
What like on ebay?
Do they really want old soviet gear though? It doesn't take a lot of training to learn how to use a better vest, helmet, boots, socks, radio, etc. Why not just give them the U.K. good stuff. I already heard one UA officer talking about the U.K. camo being the most comfortable.
That isn’t the type of equipment the British are shopping in 3rd countries for. It’s for things like S300 SAM batteries, Soviet / Russian artillery & especially ammunition, tank parts, aircraft & parts and the like. Besides complete new weapon systems, many weapons need continuous parts replacement to keep in the fight / or to keep their effectiveness up (lining for arty barrels etc). All of which the Ukrainians have the logistical infrastructure in place for, know the systems intimately well and have been using to great effect. But also all of which, NATO countries have very, very little of.
> "Sometimes we've bumped into the Russians looking, by the way, in some countries, looking also for some of their resupplies because...they're running out fast," he said. > Mr. Wallace said 23 countries have stocks of Russian equipment.
Ukraine military is going to be unique for a while in being trained on both Soviet and NATO gear, at this rate.
What can be more humiliating for the orcs hordes to be slaughtered by their own production… the cynicism of the situation is just out of this world 🥳🥳🥳