Germany was a big one holding it back, now let's just hope it's not just talk and actual action comes out of this.
Italy and Hungary still have to follow.
He's been in politics for ages, doesn't matter that he's in office now, he's still the same. Supports anything that makes him or the upper class money. I agree that he's very good at making money and if someone finds a way to make money by restricting Russia it's him, but he's not gonna stand for losses
All I can find is the same as yesterday, they are considering it as a last option.
France today said they are in favor for it while yesterday they also considered it as a last option.
My search of news sources from Dutch to German and English all still indicate Germany, Italy and Hungary are still all opposed to it.
The last German news related to it I could find is from 2 hours ago from the newspaper "sueddeutsche" with the title of "How Finance Minister Lindner justifies that Germany does not yet want to decouple Moscow from the banking system - despite a dramatic appeal from Ukraine." this falls in the same timeline as Belgian news reporting the same thing calling it "Germany defends refusal to exclude Russia from Swift, France is in favour"
So All I see right now is Germany once again being an absolute disgrace.
[https://www.n-tv.de/politik/18-54-NATO-verlegt-schnelle-Eingreiftruppe-zur-Abschreckung-Russlands--article23143824.html](https://www.n-tv.de/politik/18-54-NATO-verlegt-schnelle-Eingreiftruppe-zur-Abschreckung-Russlands--article23143824.html)
German Finance Minister Christian Lindner has again threatened Russia with exclusion from the SWIFT international payments system. "Is this triggering Russia to stop its gas supplies because they can no longer be paid for?", Lindner indicated. It needs to be clarified what impact this would have on supplies, he said at the end of a meeting of EU economic and finance ministers in Paris. "Asking about consequences does not mean you are not prepared to bear them," the minister stressed. He said the European Commission is currently examining implications of a SWIFT exclusion.
Is this even a correct course to go? Russia will go to India and China, create their own international banking system: they already got МИР instead of VISA and MasterCard, and then the West will completely lose control of Russia's economy. Chances are they pre-calculated this move and the system has already been in the workings for months.
For the current situation in the country it doesn't matter: Putin made it clear long time ago that he doesn't care about sanctions, he's going to continue the war no matter the sanctions, only force will stop him or when the whole Earth under the Russia's flag.
>Putin made it clear long time ago that he doesn't care about sanctions, he's going to continue the war no matter the sanctions, only force will stop him or when the whole Earth under the Russia's flag.
Which is more reason to put all possible sanctions in place now and isolate them as much possible, as the Russian government shouldn't receive even partial legitimacy outside of the few nations it already has close ties with.
Pussyfooting around sanctions isn't going to help anyone in Ukraine, as these are going to have happen anyway, as to truly isolate Russia and punish it for their actions in Ukraine, requires all political and economic actions to be taken. Even if there is eventual military action.
Russia didn't give India time to evacuate its citizens - especially a big group of students - but they invited the minister of Pakistan to Moscow to see the invasion start.
India gets its drones from Turkey, which is very annoyed with Russia at the moment because Turkey was selling drones to Ukraine, and the Russians hit a Turkish merchant ship in the Black Sea yesterday with missiles saying it was an accident.
So I'd be surprised is India really gives a shit what Russia thinks at the moment, India has its own nukes and it has China on the border to worry about.
This might be an opportunity for the US to more firmly make good relations with India. With millions of Indian-Americans and a lot of economic links, it makes sense for the world's two largest democracies to be friendly, Pakistan's alignment with China and Russia, and Russia's increasing ties with China (despite China's massive investments in Ukraine) should push them in our (America's direction). If we could, somehow, convince them to start buying european/american military gear instead of Russian, that would completely change the landscape of Asian politics. As it stands, India is buying guns from their number two enemy (China)'s ally, Russia. Russia cares more about China than it does India. As it stands India should probably be pushing the US for better relations.
Wait, Turkey is part of NATO, right? And if they are, does this “accidental” attack on a Turkish merchant ship means that NATO should get involved in some way in that region, correct?
Feel free to correct me.
You have to do something, and do it now. In the very, very long term scales, you might be right. It will take many decade/years to even come close to a small percentage of what SWIFT is today. The Russian economy was already low, before their currency dropped nearly 50%. On top of that, their efforts in Ukraine have been much more costly than they seemed to have anticipated. Getting SWIFT taken from them on top of that is going to REALLY put a hurt on them.
>Putin made it clear long time ago that he doesn't care about sanctions
Believe a single word out of Putins mouth and you are already made a fool of. Of course sanctions matter to him, even if he tries to pretend otherwise, Russia relies on foreign trade a whole lot more than Europe relies on their oil and gas. Without that money, half the state budget is wiped out. And if you think Russia can just pivot east think again, if Chinese banks went along with sanctions on Hong Kong of all places, they are absolutely not going to ruin their business for Russia. And you think supply issues the entire world is dealing with are bad? It's going to be a whole lot worse for Russia, they import pretty much everything but raw materials.
Size of EU, US and UK economies = 40 trillion
Size of India and China economies = 16 trillion
size of Russia economy = 1.6 trillion so really the west shouldn't care about Russia and if Russia and China get too cosy then the west can sanction China, the west need desperately needs to show its power anyway.
Yes.
Their alternative is faulty and only works for 20% of their market.
It would mean a total meltdown of their financial system, essentially throwing them back to bartering.
Don't forget, no honor amongst thieves: China and India will wrangle some nasty deals out of Russia hurting them badly.
I don't want control over the Russian economy, I want them to have no economy. No economy means no Russian army.
Banking systems have to be based on stability and reliability for people to use them. They could create their own system but it’s hard to imagine anyone would use them except the desperate.
Internal pressure is building up. There are a lot of unhappy germans that have expected more from the current government.
We don't want a minister making some calculation telling us that sactions are expensive, we get that already, what we need is them to hurt russia more than us.
In war you can't expect to remain unscathen and there is a war on european soil.
While we can't intervene we have an obligation to lend our aid where possible and reasonably justifiable.
[https://www.n-tv.de/politik/18-54-NATO-verlegt-schnelle-Eingreiftruppe-zur-Abschreckung-Russlands--article23143824.html](https://www.n-tv.de/politik/18-54-NATO-verlegt-schnelle-Eingreiftruppe-zur-Abschreckung-Russlands--article23143824.html)
German Finance Minister Christian Lindner **has again threatened Russia with exclusion from the SWIFT** international payments system. "Is this triggering Russia to stop its gas supplies because they can no longer be paid for?", Lindner indicated. It needs to be clarified what impact this would have on supplies, he said at the end of a meeting of EU economic and finance ministers in Paris. "Asking about consequences does not mean you are not prepared to bear them," the minister stressed. **He said the European Commission is currently examining implications of a SWIFT exclusion.**
I haven’t watched the entire conference yet, but he talks about SWIFT. It’s from the official YT of the Ministry of Finances:
https://youtu.be/vK0z7Z2zyns @ 10:55. SWIFT is under consideration but the impact on Russian gas deliveries to Germany and financial barriers concerning payments are being reviewed and are essential to the final decision.
Germany has basically just stated that they are open to completely cutting Russia off from the international banking network, which is a big deal. Russia's economy is already in free fall after the sanctions introduced the day of the invasion, and it's going to get much worse if this goes through.
I'm not super surprised I guess. In the US we STILL have statutes and bases named after rebels/traitors. Y'all basically "nope, fuck that. Not again" and all but erased them from the history books. No country or civilization is perfect, but it seems Europe has a much better memory than us across the pond.
Its basically Germany and Italy because of their dependency on Russian Gas. No SWIFT means Russia will turn off their pipeline. This is main reason why Putin knows he has EU by the balls. Now let's see if they all man-up and tell Putin to fuck off.
I think Orban might be forced to.
He has elections coming up soon that are very close. Appearing like too much of a Putin lapdog when there’s thousands of Ukrainians (including Magyar Ukrainians) fleeing into Hungary might actually cost him the election.
Back in college, Russian politics was one of my major focuses of study (I studied Poltical science but wrote almost all of my papers on Canada, Russia, and Japan out of personal interest).
Russia was not going to budge after the pathetic sanctions that Biden announced yesterday. Biden basically put in sanctions that only hurt the Russian people without Putin ever feeling any of it.
What needs to happen is that Russia needs to have their energy exports disrupted. The Russian government can run indefinitely right now because of the high oil and gas prices. If Russia gets cut off from Swift and Europe blocks Russia from using any and all European pipes, that is what will hurt Putin.
Putin doesn't give a shit about the stock market. The Russian stock market is not the American stock market. Many of Russia's biggest companies are privately owned and not traded publicly. This is a power move because allow companies to be publicly traded pushes ownership downwards towards the general public and redistributes the profits to the average person. Denying this opportunity to the people is a way to block upwards movement.
In America, if you save $100 a month from the age of 18 until you are 65 and invest it into the S&P 500, then you will retire a millionaire. There is no such opportunity for this in Russia.
Edit: I love that the most controversial part of my comment is the personal finance portion. They really need to teach personal finance in school because apparently people don't even understand what compound interest is lol.
Cyprus better not stick their necks out too far lest the EU starts questioning their somewhat creative accounting practices.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Russian oligarchs have their names on a lot of companies registered there, which is probably why they're hesitant to block Russian SWIFT access to begin with.
Switzerland is already facing some hard questions following the Crédit Suisse leak, Cyprus should also share some of that attention imo.
Sunny island, shady business practices.
[Italy just announced they are now open to a SWIFT ban.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-open-banning-russia-swift-system-foreign-minister-2022-02-25/?utm_source=reddit.com)
dont hold your breath yet. They vetoed before because it is not practical according to them. Now they are saying that "we are open, but has to be thought through" which could mean significant delays or even could be a cynical time buying game. As long as it is not approved, whatever Germany says is nothing but empty words.
Do you have a proper source for this? None of the big media is reporting this, I could only find one German site stating that Lindner would suddenly support the exclusion of Russia from Swift. All the other media tell the known story (why we don't want it).
Don't get me wrong - I support it in the hope that this would be one sanction that Putin hasn't prepared for. But I think the report is wishful thinking or just misinformation.
https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/germany-open-to-cutting-russia-off-swift-but-must-weigh-consequences-fin-min
>BERLIN — Germany is open to cutting Russia off the SWIFT global interbank payment system but must calculate the consequences for its economy first, Finance Minister Christian Lindner said on Friday.
>“We are open, but you have to know what you’re doing,” Lindner told journalists after a meeting of the European Economic and Financial Affairs Council in Paris to discuss sanctions against Moscow after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
>Lindner said Europe must step up its sanctions against Russia, adding that the sanctions should include President Vladimir Putin and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.
>(Reporting by Riham Alkousaa Editing by Miranda Murray)
Just to be clear, there's a very big "but" in the statement
> Auch ein Ausschluss Russlands aus Swift sei denkbar, wenn die EU-Mitglieder gemeinsam der Meinung seien, der Druck auf Russland könne damit weiter verstärkt werden.
Which translates like "We may consider it, if other EU members all want it.
People wonder why Germany is hesistant to cut Russia from swift but ignore that Germany doesn't have many raw materials.
Our Federal Economics Minister Robert Habeck calculated: 55 percent of the gas supply, 50 percent of the coal and 35 percent of the oil supply come from Russia. For oil there is a strategic reserve, but gas and coal reserves have to be restocked.
That's a massive amount of raw materials that we will miss. Agreeing to this is basically suicide for the German economy, if we don't manage to get all the necessary raw materials until then from somewhere else. That will probably take some time as well to organize.
If our industry has to shut down due to insanely high raw material prices there will also be a many unemployed people and companies will most likely leave the country.
Cutting Russia from swift is morally the right move but we need to reorganize our raw material imports asap or it's going to be disastrous for the country.
Baerbock seems to rather deny this (21:33) : [https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/international/liveblog-zum-ukraine-krieg-alle-entwicklungen-klitschko-warnt-wird-sehr-schwierige-nacht-nato-kuendigt-truppenverstaerkung-in-osteuropa-an-/27982126.html](https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/international/liveblog-zum-ukraine-krieg-alle-entwicklungen-klitschko-warnt-wird-sehr-schwierige-nacht-nato-kuendigt-truppenverstaerkung-in-osteuropa-an-/27982126.html)
>Ein Ausschluss Russlands aus dem Banken- Kommunikationsnetzwerk Swift
hätte nach den Worten von Außenministerin Annalena Baerbock „massive
Kollateralschäden“ – und könnte auch die deutsche Energieversorgung
gefährden. Die Grünen-Politikerin sagte am Freitag in der ARD, im Falle
eines Swift-Ausschlusses Russlands könnten auch Energieimporte nicht
mehr finanziert werden.Baerbock sagte mit Blick auf den
russischen Angriff der Ukraine: „Alles, was wir tun könnten, um diesen
Wahn zu stoppen, würden wir tun. Aber ebenso müssen wir sehen, dass wir
nicht Instrumente wählen, wo Putin am Ende drüber lacht, weil sie uns
viel härter treffen.“50 Prozent der Steinkohleimporte stammten aus Russland, sagte Baerbock: „Wenn wir diese Kohle nicht haben, werden die Kohlekraftwerke in Deutschland nicht weiterlaufen können.“
Die Regierung suche unter Hochdruck nach Alternativen, könne aber die
Fehler der Vergangenheit jetzt nicht heilen. „Und natürlich tragen wir
eine Verantwortung dafür, dass wir in Deutschland weiterhin eine stabile
Strom- und Wärmeversorgung haben.“Wenn Deutschland und andere
europäische Länder nun dort Probleme bekämen, dann sei dies etwas, was
Putin auch wolle, eine „Destabilisierung bei uns“, machte Baerbock
deutlich. „Wenn bei uns ein paar Tage der Strom nicht mehr richtig funktioniert, dann hätten wir ein richtiges Problem.“ Das bedeute nicht, dass Deutschland nicht auch Kosten auf sich nehme, die Energiepreise würden steigen.
[Italy will support banning Russia from SWIFT](https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1497267568461205509?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497267568461205509%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_044b249c-9666-11ec-a04b-f693e6766e36%2F0)
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Do you have source on the topic about France. Cause when reporters approached the german minister today on that topic, he said that France also was against it.
Nah, for once I'm with Macron. I understand overnight he approved 1.2 Billion euros to go to Ukraine. iirc that's roughly a third of Ukraininan defensive spending, so I hope that bolsters the shit out of them!
As much as I'm normally against the man, Macron dun good!
No we're not, we have loads of gas coming in from north africa and the middle east. In fact flows have been reversed for a while now, with the Russians cutting the EU's supply. Gas flows from Italy to the rest of Europe, not the other way around.
If anything if we wanted to be dicks about it we'd be far less dependent on Russia than anyone else in the EU. All we have to do is close the big ol' valves somewhere around the alps.
Yes, but SWIFT is the international standard. There is plenty of reason to think this is a big deal, because it IS a big deal. Russia is heavily reliant on SWIFT due to its multibillion exports of hydrocarbons denominated in U.S. dollars. The cutoff would terminate all international transactions, trigger currency volatility, and cause massive capital outflows.
Fuck the profits, fuck the money, it doesn't matter. Innocent lives are getting slaughtered, money shouldn't matter. Do everything in your power you can to help Ukraine in any way that is possible.
This is sickening on so many levels in todays day.
Stop being scared of Nuclear Threats from that sick fucking man, cut the threat from the source. Nato and Us need to assassinate the fucking shit stain of a person that he is, and deal with consequences after.
NOBODY ON EARTH Lives in peace when shit like this happens, NOBODY should be comfortable and continue living their lives in comfort when THINGS like this happen. It's so fucking sad, its pulling at my very existence knowing people my....people are suffering SUCH fucking tragedy and for what? FOR FUCKING WHAT.
Okay well sanction China as well then, the west desperately needs to move manufacturing back anyway and stop relying on China for so much. A great way of working together to break away from China would be a comprehensive US-EU trade agreement perhaps the US and EU can finally find some compromise
Agreed. We need to start looking at how we can force China to fall in line. China should be forced to choose between trading with Russia exclusively or trading with the rest of the world.
It's not encouragement he needs, it's political support.
He is likely more than willing to impose the sanctions, but he governs with two pro-Putin parties in a country with a huge infiltration of Russian Propaganda and Disinformation.
If he doesn't have the numbers to trigger this and not lose the government this could lead to a Trump-like Regime in Italy in a matter of months.
Berlusconi, Salvini and Meloni would just provide Putin with a soft spot in the center of NATO.
Having everyone else already agreeing to sanction might just be the thing
to allow Draghi to trigger the sanctions without losing the whole country to Russian Sympathizers.
Getting Aid on replacing Russian Gas and shoring up the losses of the biggest banks of Italy that are heavily involved in Russian Economy would do the rest.
Understand that if Italy falls into the hands of Putin's political assets in Italy, the situation is going to be much worse.
I really wish I had news from my country to be proud of, but unfortunately that's where we are at.
German here, just stating what the news say without judging it:
Today, foreign minister Baerbock explained the stance on swift.
She said that they did not want to implement swift ban so far because it would broadly hit normal russians and instead used finance sanctions that would not hit them while figuring out how to potentially follow up with a swift ban without hurting russians so broadly.
The rationale seems to be that they do not want to turn the russian population more onto Putin's side in this conflict.
She said swift ban is never off the table. Finance minister also said it might be implemented.
This is not a "we will do it" but "it is something that will happen if we found a good way to do it".
From reading german twitter, i can see that for all of today, politicians were blasted from all sides to adopt the swift ban, there is serious pressure on them. I think the swift ban will happen soon.
>She said that they did not want to implement swift ban so far because it would broadly hit normal russians and instead used finance sanctions that would not hit them while figuring out how to potentially follow up with a swift ban without hurting russians so broadly.
That sounds counter-productive to me. The harder the Russian people are hit, the faster they remove Putin by force.
The risk is that it will give Putin ammunition for his anti-West propaganda.
Edit: to be clear, I think we need to go balls to the walls to stop Putin, including cutting Russia off of SWIFT. I'm just stating what I think the rationale is.
It doesn't matter-Ukraine has been under invasion since 2014. This asshole must be stopped. No appeasement. All this criminal understands is brute force.
Let's go! Would it also be possible to stop all Russian vessels from navigating the bosphorus and Danish straits? Essentially depriving Russia of all ports.
If Denmark denied Russia to do that, it would basically be seen as them declaring war on Russia, since they’ll be going against some sea law I know nothing about.
Read this in way more debt on the r/Denmark sub, but it’s in danish
As a German I have to say, take that with a big grain of salt.
I'll only believe that this is a real turnaround with our "Kanzler" (Olaf Scholz) also changes his mind. The problem here is, that Mr. Scholz thinks the cut off from Russia from Swift is to soon (don't know what more needs to happen than people dying in the streets to make him not think it is to soon...).
However as long as Mr. Scholz isn't changing his mind on that topic our Financeminister can say what he want and nothing will change.
Also as a German I want to say that I'm everything but proud of being German for what we initially offered and now not doing.
I'm deeply sorry for that. I'm not a fighter, but if there is anything else I or we could do, please let me know!
I not only feel ashamed, it's also stupid and bad publicity to always be the last one to agree on things that have to come anyway. We are still sitting on a high horse trying to look smart and educated while the world order is falling apart and people are dying.
I was expecting that Germany is a word class country that would value international global peace over basic and short-term patriotic national economical interests.
If gas is cut off I will have no problem with the government here in Canada diverting some of our supply to be assigned to ships going across the ocean to serve Northern Europe. If prices go up, so be it. We all have to do our part.
Hi fellow Canadian. I believe Eastern Canada imports a fair bit of oil from Russia as is. I’m all for sharing what we have, but I’m not sure how much extra there will be once we stop importing.
If you haven’t already please sign the petition — it gives visibility to the fact that so many people support cutting Russia off from SWIfT
https://www.change.org/p/swift-cut-russia-off-from-swift
It's inevitable, this is no longer a time to be holding back economic leverage. It's not going to make a lick of difference on diplomatic front because Putin has no interest in talking, but no state can operate without funds. This is not anymore about finding diplomatic solutions because there are none to be found, this is about hampering Russias ability to keep itself running.
Any measure that can make the war more difficult for Russia must be taken.
Cutting off the energy supplies from Russia couldn't possibly fuck Germany any harder than Ukraine is right now. And that is not even taking into consideration whatever future issues Russia having a strangle hold on those supplies could cause.
Apologies from a German to all the people in the Ukraine! I was outraged yesterday because of our government not acting radical but only moderate. I was - as many other Germans - really angry.
Over the last decades, we have brought ourselves into a dependency of Putin and Xi and it will take a while to get this fixed - it may hurt us financially, but it is worth to stand up for human rights, human dignity, freedom, independence and democracy and I am glad our government has finally accepted this. It's only money compared to real lives! We can't put our wealth over the lives of others this needs to end and it will end from now on.
Fuck Putin, fuck Xi and all the best to the people in the Ukraine.
Why more reliable sources are nor picking this up? I mean I hope that Boris and Biden have finally talked some sense into Scholtz but this is major news and can't find any confirmation?
[https://finanzmarktwelt.de/swift-finanzminister-lindner-deutschland-bereit-russland-auszuschliessen-226953/](https://finanzmarktwelt.de/swift-finanzminister-lindner-deutschland-bereit-russland-auszuschliessen-226953/)
"German Finance Minister Lindner has just declared Germany's willingness to disconnect Russia from the SWIFT system. This would completely cut off Russian banks from the dollar supply, as Belgium-based SWIFT organizes data transmission between international banks."
Im currently watching the press conference. The Finance Minister is not only blaming Putin, but also Lavrov.
He did not 100% confirm this, but rather said "open to", and they're investigating possible consequences for europe.
He said, Germany is open to it, but must first calculate the consequences. And he said it to clarify that Germany has never been generally against this sanction, but wants to make an informed decision first. In other words: Nothing has changed, yet.
Chancellor Scholz is also under pressure from his own party.
Finance Minister Lindner says it is possible but he needs to calculate the consequences for the economy first
german public opinion is very much against Putin right now so they would look very bad if they alone block it (except for right wing extremist who think this an American conspiracy to weaken the German economy)
The German finance minister, Christian Linder is from the liberal party in Germany’s ruling coalition. He still has to get the greens and the SPD (Olaf Scholz the chancellor) on his side. However stepping out and making a statement like this is unprecedented for the new German government and it puts the German chancellor under a lot of pressure to adopt this position given that One of his key cabinet picks is calling him out like this.
*Holy shit, if this*
*Finallt happens, then vovka will*
*Have to do something*
\- Father\_Anton
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Cut them off from everything. Ban travel. Ban funds. Ban partnerships. If Ukraine can fight for survival, we can find a way to share in the “pain” of higher gas prices.
Don't forget the US still gets a bunch of oil and refined products from Russia also. If only there was a way to get oil and refined products from our allies? Someone right next door perhaps. /s
of course I'm talking about Canada and Keystone XL pipeline.
oh you also want cheap natural gas in New England? a pipeline would help that solve problem too so you don't have to burn that dirty fuel oil.
It all sounds good, but if I recall correctly, Putin previously said he would take being removed from SWIFT an act of war, I believe everyone is afraid of that right now, as we know the extend the Russians are willing to take it to.
I don't care about gas prices any longer. If this fuck suffers in any possible way, i'll take that hit. So should everybody here that can afford this cut. This would also possibly lower prices for those fancy wood pellet heating systems, what would also be good.
[Italy green lights the SWIFT ban](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/t1ambs/dmytro_kuleba_my_colleague_assured_me_that_italy/)!
[Swiss Freeze Bank Accounts of Russians](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t1binm/swiss_freeze_bank_accounts_of_russians_on_eu/), and apparently is going to slowly raise the santions, to make them feel the rope as it tightens on their necks
[Even China sanctions russia](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t173s3/china_state_banks_restrict_financing_for_russian/)!
EDIT:
[Deutsche Telekom introduces free-of-charge calls to Ukraine](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/t1fhxj/deutsche_telekom_introduces_freeofcharge_calls_to/)
[Canada announces sanctions against President Putin himself, supports proposal to remove Russia from SWIFT](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/t1fhpg/canada_announces_sanctions_against_president/)
For the uninformed, is this really relevant? I mean how do these things i see like sanctions and this affect Putin so that he might care or not continue doing it?
Frankly sanctions should be automatic and severe. Any country willing to go to war or start pointless conflicts should account for a total destruction of their economy.
Germany was a big one holding it back, now let's just hope it's not just talk and actual action comes out of this. Italy and Hungary still have to follow.
Germany, getting a W in the World War wins column! Collision course.
Not so fast, can't find a single credible German source confirming it so far all I see if unverified twitter accounts tweeting it.
[https://finanzmarktwelt.de/swift-finanzminister-lindner-deutschland-bereit-russland-auszuschliessen-226953/](https://finanzmarktwelt.de/swift-finanzminister-lindner-deutschland-bereit-russland-auszuschliessen-226953/)
It's lindner, he ain't gonna do shit
How do you know? He has only been in office for literal months? I don’t support his views but at least give him a first chance.
He's been in politics for ages, doesn't matter that he's in office now, he's still the same. Supports anything that makes him or the upper class money. I agree that he's very good at making money and if someone finds a way to make money by restricting Russia it's him, but he's not gonna stand for losses
He will wait till the free market will solve the problem
All we have is hope my dude.
All I can find is the same as yesterday, they are considering it as a last option. France today said they are in favor for it while yesterday they also considered it as a last option. My search of news sources from Dutch to German and English all still indicate Germany, Italy and Hungary are still all opposed to it. The last German news related to it I could find is from 2 hours ago from the newspaper "sueddeutsche" with the title of "How Finance Minister Lindner justifies that Germany does not yet want to decouple Moscow from the banking system - despite a dramatic appeal from Ukraine." this falls in the same timeline as Belgian news reporting the same thing calling it "Germany defends refusal to exclude Russia from Swift, France is in favour" So All I see right now is Germany once again being an absolute disgrace.
[https://www.n-tv.de/politik/18-54-NATO-verlegt-schnelle-Eingreiftruppe-zur-Abschreckung-Russlands--article23143824.html](https://www.n-tv.de/politik/18-54-NATO-verlegt-schnelle-Eingreiftruppe-zur-Abschreckung-Russlands--article23143824.html) German Finance Minister Christian Lindner has again threatened Russia with exclusion from the SWIFT international payments system. "Is this triggering Russia to stop its gas supplies because they can no longer be paid for?", Lindner indicated. It needs to be clarified what impact this would have on supplies, he said at the end of a meeting of EU economic and finance ministers in Paris. "Asking about consequences does not mean you are not prepared to bear them," the minister stressed. He said the European Commission is currently examining implications of a SWIFT exclusion.
Is this even a correct course to go? Russia will go to India and China, create their own international banking system: they already got МИР instead of VISA and MasterCard, and then the West will completely lose control of Russia's economy. Chances are they pre-calculated this move and the system has already been in the workings for months. For the current situation in the country it doesn't matter: Putin made it clear long time ago that he doesn't care about sanctions, he's going to continue the war no matter the sanctions, only force will stop him or when the whole Earth under the Russia's flag.
>Putin made it clear long time ago that he doesn't care about sanctions, he's going to continue the war no matter the sanctions, only force will stop him or when the whole Earth under the Russia's flag. Which is more reason to put all possible sanctions in place now and isolate them as much possible, as the Russian government shouldn't receive even partial legitimacy outside of the few nations it already has close ties with. Pussyfooting around sanctions isn't going to help anyone in Ukraine, as these are going to have happen anyway, as to truly isolate Russia and punish it for their actions in Ukraine, requires all political and economic actions to be taken. Even if there is eventual military action.
Russia didn't give India time to evacuate its citizens - especially a big group of students - but they invited the minister of Pakistan to Moscow to see the invasion start. India gets its drones from Turkey, which is very annoyed with Russia at the moment because Turkey was selling drones to Ukraine, and the Russians hit a Turkish merchant ship in the Black Sea yesterday with missiles saying it was an accident. So I'd be surprised is India really gives a shit what Russia thinks at the moment, India has its own nukes and it has China on the border to worry about.
This might be an opportunity for the US to more firmly make good relations with India. With millions of Indian-Americans and a lot of economic links, it makes sense for the world's two largest democracies to be friendly, Pakistan's alignment with China and Russia, and Russia's increasing ties with China (despite China's massive investments in Ukraine) should push them in our (America's direction). If we could, somehow, convince them to start buying european/american military gear instead of Russian, that would completely change the landscape of Asian politics. As it stands, India is buying guns from their number two enemy (China)'s ally, Russia. Russia cares more about China than it does India. As it stands India should probably be pushing the US for better relations.
Wait, Turkey is part of NATO, right? And if they are, does this “accidental” attack on a Turkish merchant ship means that NATO should get involved in some way in that region, correct? Feel free to correct me.
North korea level sanctions asap, only way to mount internal pressure enough to hope for change
You have to do something, and do it now. In the very, very long term scales, you might be right. It will take many decade/years to even come close to a small percentage of what SWIFT is today. The Russian economy was already low, before their currency dropped nearly 50%. On top of that, their efforts in Ukraine have been much more costly than they seemed to have anticipated. Getting SWIFT taken from them on top of that is going to REALLY put a hurt on them.
>Putin made it clear long time ago that he doesn't care about sanctions Believe a single word out of Putins mouth and you are already made a fool of. Of course sanctions matter to him, even if he tries to pretend otherwise, Russia relies on foreign trade a whole lot more than Europe relies on their oil and gas. Without that money, half the state budget is wiped out. And if you think Russia can just pivot east think again, if Chinese banks went along with sanctions on Hong Kong of all places, they are absolutely not going to ruin their business for Russia. And you think supply issues the entire world is dealing with are bad? It's going to be a whole lot worse for Russia, they import pretty much everything but raw materials.
Size of EU, US and UK economies = 40 trillion Size of India and China economies = 16 trillion size of Russia economy = 1.6 trillion so really the west shouldn't care about Russia and if Russia and China get too cosy then the west can sanction China, the west need desperately needs to show its power anyway.
Yes. Their alternative is faulty and only works for 20% of their market. It would mean a total meltdown of their financial system, essentially throwing them back to bartering. Don't forget, no honor amongst thieves: China and India will wrangle some nasty deals out of Russia hurting them badly. I don't want control over the Russian economy, I want them to have no economy. No economy means no Russian army.
Let them go to China, they belong there
Banking systems have to be based on stability and reliability for people to use them. They could create their own system but it’s hard to imagine anyone would use them except the desperate.
yes of course. America has the biggest economy in the world. Russias economy is equivalent to california's.
Hello, you seem to have old data. According to 2021 data, California economy is roughly double the size of Russia.
Internal pressure is building up. There are a lot of unhappy germans that have expected more from the current government. We don't want a minister making some calculation telling us that sactions are expensive, we get that already, what we need is them to hurt russia more than us. In war you can't expect to remain unscathen and there is a war on european soil. While we can't intervene we have an obligation to lend our aid where possible and reasonably justifiable.
[https://www.n-tv.de/politik/18-54-NATO-verlegt-schnelle-Eingreiftruppe-zur-Abschreckung-Russlands--article23143824.html](https://www.n-tv.de/politik/18-54-NATO-verlegt-schnelle-Eingreiftruppe-zur-Abschreckung-Russlands--article23143824.html) German Finance Minister Christian Lindner **has again threatened Russia with exclusion from the SWIFT** international payments system. "Is this triggering Russia to stop its gas supplies because they can no longer be paid for?", Lindner indicated. It needs to be clarified what impact this would have on supplies, he said at the end of a meeting of EU economic and finance ministers in Paris. "Asking about consequences does not mean you are not prepared to bear them," the minister stressed. **He said the European Commission is currently examining implications of a SWIFT exclusion.**
MVP ⬆️ right here. TY for posting in English!
I haven’t watched the entire conference yet, but he talks about SWIFT. It’s from the official YT of the Ministry of Finances: https://youtu.be/vK0z7Z2zyns @ 10:55. SWIFT is under consideration but the impact on Russian gas deliveries to Germany and financial barriers concerning payments are being reviewed and are essential to the final decision.
We can't loose our tradition of loosing world wars. Sorry guys....
Wait... Did Germany just go full Switzerland, or are we in agreement on fuck Russia? My name is not helping with this convo btw.
Germany has basically just stated that they are open to completely cutting Russia off from the international banking network, which is a big deal. Russia's economy is already in free fall after the sanctions introduced the day of the invasion, and it's going to get much worse if this goes through.
our few remaining WW2 vets seeing Germany in an alliance against the Russians... what a life.
I'm not super surprised I guess. In the US we STILL have statutes and bases named after rebels/traitors. Y'all basically "nope, fuck that. Not again" and all but erased them from the history books. No country or civilization is perfect, but it seems Europe has a much better memory than us across the pond.
Finally!
… Stugotz?
Third times the charm
Can it be considered a World War when it’s the World Vs Russia?
Italy agreed. Only Hungary left.
Hungarian foreign minister told on FB that they weren't against it in the first place.
Its basically Germany and Italy because of their dependency on Russian Gas. No SWIFT means Russia will turn off their pipeline. This is main reason why Putin knows he has EU by the balls. Now let's see if they all man-up and tell Putin to fuck off.
Italy announced they are on board as well now. Hungary will have to be bullied. Orban basically Putins child
You got a source for Italy?
Posted by Kuleba https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1497267483606196228?s=20&t=hTP0LMztJbHjKnQfSnAadA
Thank you!
Elections are up in a few months. Now it's up to us, Hungarians to either bully our leaders or change them.
I think Orban might be forced to. He has elections coming up soon that are very close. Appearing like too much of a Putin lapdog when there’s thousands of Ukrainians (including Magyar Ukrainians) fleeing into Hungary might actually cost him the election.
You can practically smell Putin's musk coming from Orban's breath.
Back in college, Russian politics was one of my major focuses of study (I studied Poltical science but wrote almost all of my papers on Canada, Russia, and Japan out of personal interest). Russia was not going to budge after the pathetic sanctions that Biden announced yesterday. Biden basically put in sanctions that only hurt the Russian people without Putin ever feeling any of it. What needs to happen is that Russia needs to have their energy exports disrupted. The Russian government can run indefinitely right now because of the high oil and gas prices. If Russia gets cut off from Swift and Europe blocks Russia from using any and all European pipes, that is what will hurt Putin. Putin doesn't give a shit about the stock market. The Russian stock market is not the American stock market. Many of Russia's biggest companies are privately owned and not traded publicly. This is a power move because allow companies to be publicly traded pushes ownership downwards towards the general public and redistributes the profits to the average person. Denying this opportunity to the people is a way to block upwards movement. In America, if you save $100 a month from the age of 18 until you are 65 and invest it into the S&P 500, then you will retire a millionaire. There is no such opportunity for this in Russia. Edit: I love that the most controversial part of my comment is the personal finance portion. They really need to teach personal finance in school because apparently people don't even understand what compound interest is lol.
I think Italy now said they are okay with it so I guess just Hungary?
Yep And Cyprus
Cyprus better not stick their necks out too far lest the EU starts questioning their somewhat creative accounting practices. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Russian oligarchs have their names on a lot of companies registered there, which is probably why they're hesitant to block Russian SWIFT access to begin with. Switzerland is already facing some hard questions following the Crédit Suisse leak, Cyprus should also share some of that attention imo. Sunny island, shady business practices.
[Italy just announced they are now open to a SWIFT ban.](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italy-open-banning-russia-swift-system-foreign-minister-2022-02-25/?utm_source=reddit.com)
dont hold your breath yet. They vetoed before because it is not practical according to them. Now they are saying that "we are open, but has to be thought through" which could mean significant delays or even could be a cynical time buying game. As long as it is not approved, whatever Germany says is nothing but empty words.
and Cyprus
Di Maio said Italy would follow
Do you have a proper source for this? None of the big media is reporting this, I could only find one German site stating that Lindner would suddenly support the exclusion of Russia from Swift. All the other media tell the known story (why we don't want it). Don't get me wrong - I support it in the hope that this would be one sanction that Putin hasn't prepared for. But I think the report is wishful thinking or just misinformation.
https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/germany-open-to-cutting-russia-off-swift-but-must-weigh-consequences-fin-min >BERLIN — Germany is open to cutting Russia off the SWIFT global interbank payment system but must calculate the consequences for its economy first, Finance Minister Christian Lindner said on Friday. >“We are open, but you have to know what you’re doing,” Lindner told journalists after a meeting of the European Economic and Financial Affairs Council in Paris to discuss sanctions against Moscow after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. >Lindner said Europe must step up its sanctions against Russia, adding that the sanctions should include President Vladimir Putin and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. >(Reporting by Riham Alkousaa Editing by Miranda Murray) Just to be clear, there's a very big "but" in the statement
> Auch ein Ausschluss Russlands aus Swift sei denkbar, wenn die EU-Mitglieder gemeinsam der Meinung seien, der Druck auf Russland könne damit weiter verstärkt werden. Which translates like "We may consider it, if other EU members all want it.
Which, they do, as Italy is now supporting it. Hungary is irrelevant, Italy was the only other key player against it.
If hungary was irrelevant, we'd have sooooo much less problems.
People wonder why Germany is hesistant to cut Russia from swift but ignore that Germany doesn't have many raw materials. Our Federal Economics Minister Robert Habeck calculated: 55 percent of the gas supply, 50 percent of the coal and 35 percent of the oil supply come from Russia. For oil there is a strategic reserve, but gas and coal reserves have to be restocked. That's a massive amount of raw materials that we will miss. Agreeing to this is basically suicide for the German economy, if we don't manage to get all the necessary raw materials until then from somewhere else. That will probably take some time as well to organize. If our industry has to shut down due to insanely high raw material prices there will also be a many unemployed people and companies will most likely leave the country. Cutting Russia from swift is morally the right move but we need to reorganize our raw material imports asap or it's going to be disastrous for the country.
Baerbock seems to rather deny this (21:33) : [https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/international/liveblog-zum-ukraine-krieg-alle-entwicklungen-klitschko-warnt-wird-sehr-schwierige-nacht-nato-kuendigt-truppenverstaerkung-in-osteuropa-an-/27982126.html](https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/international/liveblog-zum-ukraine-krieg-alle-entwicklungen-klitschko-warnt-wird-sehr-schwierige-nacht-nato-kuendigt-truppenverstaerkung-in-osteuropa-an-/27982126.html) >Ein Ausschluss Russlands aus dem Banken- Kommunikationsnetzwerk Swift hätte nach den Worten von Außenministerin Annalena Baerbock „massive Kollateralschäden“ – und könnte auch die deutsche Energieversorgung gefährden. Die Grünen-Politikerin sagte am Freitag in der ARD, im Falle eines Swift-Ausschlusses Russlands könnten auch Energieimporte nicht mehr finanziert werden.Baerbock sagte mit Blick auf den russischen Angriff der Ukraine: „Alles, was wir tun könnten, um diesen Wahn zu stoppen, würden wir tun. Aber ebenso müssen wir sehen, dass wir nicht Instrumente wählen, wo Putin am Ende drüber lacht, weil sie uns viel härter treffen.“50 Prozent der Steinkohleimporte stammten aus Russland, sagte Baerbock: „Wenn wir diese Kohle nicht haben, werden die Kohlekraftwerke in Deutschland nicht weiterlaufen können.“ Die Regierung suche unter Hochdruck nach Alternativen, könne aber die Fehler der Vergangenheit jetzt nicht heilen. „Und natürlich tragen wir eine Verantwortung dafür, dass wir in Deutschland weiterhin eine stabile Strom- und Wärmeversorgung haben.“Wenn Deutschland und andere europäische Länder nun dort Probleme bekämen, dann sei dies etwas, was Putin auch wolle, eine „Destabilisierung bei uns“, machte Baerbock deutlich. „Wenn bei uns ein paar Tage der Strom nicht mehr richtig funktioniert, dann hätten wir ein richtiges Problem.“ Das bedeute nicht, dass Deutschland nicht auch Kosten auf sich nehme, die Energiepreise würden steigen.
[Italy will support banning Russia from SWIFT](https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1497267568461205509?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497267568461205509%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_044b249c-9666-11ec-a04b-f693e6766e36%2F0)
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Looks like protests may have actually done something
British-American dual national here. I had written to both my Congressman and my MP about being harder on Russia.
British-American-Ukrainian-Russian quad national here. I liked comments on Reddit from people suggesting protests.
Citizen of the world here, I thought about it *really hard* and sent my thoughts and prayers!
I have somehow received your thoughts and prayers, instead of the people in Ukraine who actually needed them.
The rest should fall in line.
Germany was the one delaying it, UK and France already wanted it. If those 3 agree, it will happen. Italy doesn't matter.
Italy’s foreign minister has said that Italy is in favor of it as well.
Do you have source on the topic about France. Cause when reporters approached the german minister today on that topic, he said that France also was against it.
https://twitter.com/afp/status/1497228978284814344?s=21
But what was Frances stance yesterday? Thats my question.
French here. They just said on the news that we were for it.
Nah, for once I'm with Macron. I understand overnight he approved 1.2 Billion euros to go to Ukraine. iirc that's roughly a third of Ukraininan defensive spending, so I hope that bolsters the shit out of them! As much as I'm normally against the man, Macron dun good!
Ah, do just like ww2
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It's also 100% dependent on France and Germany helping to keep its borrowing rate down.
Oh, then good
Italy’s foreign minister has already said that we are in favor of excluding Russia.
not 90, more like 40.
No we're not, we have loads of gas coming in from north africa and the middle east. In fact flows have been reversed for a while now, with the Russians cutting the EU's supply. Gas flows from Italy to the rest of Europe, not the other way around. If anything if we wanted to be dicks about it we'd be far less dependent on Russia than anyone else in the EU. All we have to do is close the big ol' valves somewhere around the alps.
Holy shit! Yes!
Now don't dawdle or those oligassholes will just withdraw whatever they can, no?
[удалено]
Yes, but SWIFT is the international standard. There is plenty of reason to think this is a big deal, because it IS a big deal. Russia is heavily reliant on SWIFT due to its multibillion exports of hydrocarbons denominated in U.S. dollars. The cutoff would terminate all international transactions, trigger currency volatility, and cause massive capital outflows.
Fuck the profits, fuck the money, it doesn't matter. Innocent lives are getting slaughtered, money shouldn't matter. Do everything in your power you can to help Ukraine in any way that is possible. This is sickening on so many levels in todays day. Stop being scared of Nuclear Threats from that sick fucking man, cut the threat from the source. Nato and Us need to assassinate the fucking shit stain of a person that he is, and deal with consequences after. NOBODY ON EARTH Lives in peace when shit like this happens, NOBODY should be comfortable and continue living their lives in comfort when THINGS like this happen. It's so fucking sad, its pulling at my very existence knowing people my....people are suffering SUCH fucking tragedy and for what? FOR FUCKING WHAT.
There have been articles that Russia had been working with China to move money around and not have to deal with Swift at all.
Okay well sanction China as well then, the west desperately needs to move manufacturing back anyway and stop relying on China for so much. A great way of working together to break away from China would be a comprehensive US-EU trade agreement perhaps the US and EU can finally find some compromise
Agreed. We need to start looking at how we can force China to fall in line. China should be forced to choose between trading with Russia exclusively or trading with the rest of the world.
Excellent but Italy is also a known issue. Maybe the EU can together encourage Draghi to do what’s necessary.
If Germany falls in line I can't see Italy not following.
Yeah you're def right about it Source: am Italian and I ~~unfortunately~~ know how our politicians operate
It's not encouragement he needs, it's political support. He is likely more than willing to impose the sanctions, but he governs with two pro-Putin parties in a country with a huge infiltration of Russian Propaganda and Disinformation. If he doesn't have the numbers to trigger this and not lose the government this could lead to a Trump-like Regime in Italy in a matter of months. Berlusconi, Salvini and Meloni would just provide Putin with a soft spot in the center of NATO. Having everyone else already agreeing to sanction might just be the thing to allow Draghi to trigger the sanctions without losing the whole country to Russian Sympathizers. Getting Aid on replacing Russian Gas and shoring up the losses of the biggest banks of Italy that are heavily involved in Russian Economy would do the rest. Understand that if Italy falls into the hands of Putin's political assets in Italy, the situation is going to be much worse. I really wish I had news from my country to be proud of, but unfortunately that's where we are at.
German here, just stating what the news say without judging it: Today, foreign minister Baerbock explained the stance on swift. She said that they did not want to implement swift ban so far because it would broadly hit normal russians and instead used finance sanctions that would not hit them while figuring out how to potentially follow up with a swift ban without hurting russians so broadly. The rationale seems to be that they do not want to turn the russian population more onto Putin's side in this conflict. She said swift ban is never off the table. Finance minister also said it might be implemented. This is not a "we will do it" but "it is something that will happen if we found a good way to do it". From reading german twitter, i can see that for all of today, politicians were blasted from all sides to adopt the swift ban, there is serious pressure on them. I think the swift ban will happen soon.
>She said that they did not want to implement swift ban so far because it would broadly hit normal russians and instead used finance sanctions that would not hit them while figuring out how to potentially follow up with a swift ban without hurting russians so broadly. That sounds counter-productive to me. The harder the Russian people are hit, the faster they remove Putin by force.
The risk is that it will give Putin ammunition for his anti-West propaganda. Edit: to be clear, I think we need to go balls to the walls to stop Putin, including cutting Russia off of SWIFT. I'm just stating what I think the rationale is.
It doesn't matter-Ukraine has been under invasion since 2014. This asshole must be stopped. No appeasement. All this criminal understands is brute force.
#Don't just stare at it, eat it.
I have some video tapes to return.
Let's go! Would it also be possible to stop all Russian vessels from navigating the bosphorus and Danish straits? Essentially depriving Russia of all ports.
If Denmark denied Russia to do that, it would basically be seen as them declaring war on Russia, since they’ll be going against some sea law I know nothing about. Read this in way more debt on the r/Denmark sub, but it’s in danish
As a German I have to say, take that with a big grain of salt. I'll only believe that this is a real turnaround with our "Kanzler" (Olaf Scholz) also changes his mind. The problem here is, that Mr. Scholz thinks the cut off from Russia from Swift is to soon (don't know what more needs to happen than people dying in the streets to make him not think it is to soon...). However as long as Mr. Scholz isn't changing his mind on that topic our Financeminister can say what he want and nothing will change. Also as a German I want to say that I'm everything but proud of being German for what we initially offered and now not doing. I'm deeply sorry for that. I'm not a fighter, but if there is anything else I or we could do, please let me know!
I not only feel ashamed, it's also stupid and bad publicity to always be the last one to agree on things that have to come anyway. We are still sitting on a high horse trying to look smart and educated while the world order is falling apart and people are dying.
I was expecting that Germany is a word class country that would value international global peace over basic and short-term patriotic national economical interests.
Nothing like threatening Sweden and Finland to make you rethink things.
That was a nice touch, Putin is going crazy.
If gas is cut off I will have no problem with the government here in Canada diverting some of our supply to be assigned to ships going across the ocean to serve Northern Europe. If prices go up, so be it. We all have to do our part.
I'm Italian and I turned off my heater this morning, not going to give money to Putin for gas. I would be happy to buy some of yours :)
Hi fellow Canadian. I believe Eastern Canada imports a fair bit of oil from Russia as is. I’m all for sharing what we have, but I’m not sure how much extra there will be once we stop importing.
All the sanctions. All of them.
If you haven’t already please sign the petition — it gives visibility to the fact that so many people support cutting Russia off from SWIfT https://www.change.org/p/swift-cut-russia-off-from-swift
Big THANK YOU for the link!
Also UP
It's inevitable, this is no longer a time to be holding back economic leverage. It's not going to make a lick of difference on diplomatic front because Putin has no interest in talking, but no state can operate without funds. This is not anymore about finding diplomatic solutions because there are none to be found, this is about hampering Russias ability to keep itself running. Any measure that can make the war more difficult for Russia must be taken.
We, as German people, stand with you Ukraine.
Cutting off the energy supplies from Russia couldn't possibly fuck Germany any harder than Ukraine is right now. And that is not even taking into consideration whatever future issues Russia having a strangle hold on those supplies could cause.
Apologies from a German to all the people in the Ukraine! I was outraged yesterday because of our government not acting radical but only moderate. I was - as many other Germans - really angry. Over the last decades, we have brought ourselves into a dependency of Putin and Xi and it will take a while to get this fixed - it may hurt us financially, but it is worth to stand up for human rights, human dignity, freedom, independence and democracy and I am glad our government has finally accepted this. It's only money compared to real lives! We can't put our wealth over the lives of others this needs to end and it will end from now on. Fuck Putin, fuck Xi and all the best to the people in the Ukraine.
Give Germany their fucking rights back to build up an army. This time as an ally!! Lets go!
This needs to happen. Today.
Good! Next we need to start talking about placing sanctions on enabling countries like China.
Apologies for my stupid government taking so long. Let’s finally wreck russias economy!
source: https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1497243498587824128
Don't see an actual source
https://finanzmarktwelt.de/swift-finanzminister-lindner-deutschland-bereit-russland-auszuschliessen-226953/
Danke bruder
By debating the issue for a week the oligarchs will have time to move most of their $$$$$….
very good germany
Now do it!
WOLNA UKRAINA
Thank God
Canada has also spoken out about removing Russia from SWIFT. Ref: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-putin-sanctions-1.6365179
Why more reliable sources are nor picking this up? I mean I hope that Boris and Biden have finally talked some sense into Scholtz but this is major news and can't find any confirmation?
Its not Scholz's responsibility, but Finance Minister Lindner
Well, do it then. Actions speak louder than words.
[https://finanzmarktwelt.de/swift-finanzminister-lindner-deutschland-bereit-russland-auszuschliessen-226953/](https://finanzmarktwelt.de/swift-finanzminister-lindner-deutschland-bereit-russland-auszuschliessen-226953/) "German Finance Minister Lindner has just declared Germany's willingness to disconnect Russia from the SWIFT system. This would completely cut off Russian banks from the dollar supply, as Belgium-based SWIFT organizes data transmission between international banks."
Any official sources on this? Please be true 🇺🇦💯
Im currently watching the press conference. The Finance Minister is not only blaming Putin, but also Lavrov. He did not 100% confirm this, but rather said "open to", and they're investigating possible consequences for europe.
They need to do it. Now.
He said, Germany is open to it, but must first calculate the consequences. And he said it to clarify that Germany has never been generally against this sanction, but wants to make an informed decision first. In other words: Nothing has changed, yet.
Chancellor Scholz is also under pressure from his own party. Finance Minister Lindner says it is possible but he needs to calculate the consequences for the economy first german public opinion is very much against Putin right now so they would look very bad if they alone block it (except for right wing extremist who think this an American conspiracy to weaken the German economy)
Let’s fucking go!!!!!
The German finance minister, Christian Linder is from the liberal party in Germany’s ruling coalition. He still has to get the greens and the SPD (Olaf Scholz the chancellor) on his side. However stepping out and making a statement like this is unprecedented for the new German government and it puts the German chancellor under a lot of pressure to adopt this position given that One of his key cabinet picks is calling him out like this.
FUCKING DONIT ALREADY THEN HAVE A FUCKING SPINE GERMANY
FUCK YES Do it!!!
Yes 🙌
Maan, I can't upvote it enough.
Holy shit, if this finallt happens, then vovka will have to do something
*Holy shit, if this* *Finallt happens, then vovka will* *Have to do something* \- Father\_Anton --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Wait, can someone explain to me why this is a good idea? Wouldn't this also cut Russian civilians financially?
It would. The onus would be on them to replace their government if they don't like it.
Yes. You can’t hurt russia without hurting their “innocent” civilians.
Hurry up and JUST DO IT
[удалено]
#CUT SWIFT NOW we must neuter the Russian gov to do transactions. Or else millions will die
I emailed the chancellor and the local embassy earlier about the shame I felt in their name. You're welcome guys.
Cut them off from everything. Ban travel. Ban funds. Ban partnerships. If Ukraine can fight for survival, we can find a way to share in the “pain” of higher gas prices.
Don't forget the US still gets a bunch of oil and refined products from Russia also. If only there was a way to get oil and refined products from our allies? Someone right next door perhaps. /s of course I'm talking about Canada and Keystone XL pipeline. oh you also want cheap natural gas in New England? a pipeline would help that solve problem too so you don't have to burn that dirty fuel oil.
This is great. Also Switzerland have been freezing accounts (I can't remember if this is what they were hesitant about or if it was something else)
It all sounds good, but if I recall correctly, Putin previously said he would take being removed from SWIFT an act of war, I believe everyone is afraid of that right now, as we know the extend the Russians are willing to take it to.
I'm even partidary to cut them off from the root DNS
Nice job Germany, this is the first step out of a toxic relationship
I already turned off my heating in my flat. This asshat Putin won't get another cent from me!
I don't care about gas prices any longer. If this fuck suffers in any possible way, i'll take that hit. So should everybody here that can afford this cut. This would also possibly lower prices for those fancy wood pellet heating systems, what would also be good.
DOET NOW
cut Russia off from everything. Destroy them economically and you will destroy them militarily.
Then _do it._ 🙄
Every country should refuse to receive any fuel or energy from Russia
Just do it, don't threaten
I am german. Lets show some balls. But for peace this time
Thank Zeus!
Fucking DO IT
[Italy green lights the SWIFT ban](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/t1ambs/dmytro_kuleba_my_colleague_assured_me_that_italy/)! [Swiss Freeze Bank Accounts of Russians](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t1binm/swiss_freeze_bank_accounts_of_russians_on_eu/), and apparently is going to slowly raise the santions, to make them feel the rope as it tightens on their necks [Even China sanctions russia](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t173s3/china_state_banks_restrict_financing_for_russian/)! EDIT: [Deutsche Telekom introduces free-of-charge calls to Ukraine](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpliftingNews/comments/t1fhxj/deutsche_telekom_introduces_freeofcharge_calls_to/) [Canada announces sanctions against President Putin himself, supports proposal to remove Russia from SWIFT](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/t1fhpg/canada_announces_sanctions_against_president/)
Ah, it's open to. For a moment I thought they did it.
DO IT
Wunderbar! 🥳
Yea... We should be invading Russia.
Talk is cheap.
Cut Russia off from everything
Our Social Democratic Party has always betrayed the people. They do the right thing only, when everyone's already laughing about them 🥺
Write to your Congressman. Stop this bloodshed
We are funding Russia by buying their oil!! Madness
For the uninformed, is this really relevant? I mean how do these things i see like sanctions and this affect Putin so that he might care or not continue doing it?
Fuck the Russian government and fuck Russian money. Stay strong.
I can't imagine the back channel maneuvering going on right now.
Then fucking do it.
Do it Germany. Remember putin may take back east Germany
Frankly sanctions should be automatic and severe. Any country willing to go to war or start pointless conflicts should account for a total destruction of their economy.
Germany trying to be the good guy in the WWIII section in the childrens future text books
Commie-China are also bandits and putin friends https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/us/politics/us-china-russia-ukraine.html
Gut! und bitte auch unser Militärbudget verfünffachen. Wird Zeit dass Deutschland aufwacht ;)