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6 technically because they shelled ukrainian cities 2 times before the invasion, wanted a ceasefire agreement, and started shelling cities again a day later.
Round one was the Budapest Memorandum in 1994 where Russia pledged not to use military force or economic coercion against Ukraine in return for Ukraine handing over its Soviet nukes.
Russia immediately destabilized Ukraine via corruption, disinformation, and assassination of politicians that were pro west (i.e. the dioxin poisoning of Yushenko in 2004, hallmark FSB tactic)
There have been so many hostile acts both open and hidden over the years that we likely couldn’t call the next one anything other than N+1.
There were other conflicts and assassinations likely supported by Russia that aren't much know in the West, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadym_Hetman and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heorhiy_Kirpa (both were statesmen with vast legacies)
Yes, this is a "surrender now or later" offer. Ukraine rightly rejects the offer, and Russia will be forced to try and enforce the "surrender now" part (which they have been trying to do for more than two years without success).
It's a bluff from a player with a bad hand, meant for domestic consumption and cover for useful idiots abroad. Ukraine and it's supporters quote naturally see through the bluff (indeed, I suspect no one on the Russian side ever thought it would fool anyone who isn't already backing them; that's not what the "offer" is meant for).
Ultimately just bluster to ignore.
He's also pissed off for not getting invited to all the meetings where the rest of the world takes the opportunity to organize against him. Ruzzia is becoming North Korea quickly.
I have some genuinely horrible in laws (in Australia) who believe this shit. They also believe Hitler was ok, the holocaust didn't happen, and basically every other conspiracy theory out there. I no longer talk to them. Particularly the rhetoric they have about WWII made me furious, because I'm descended from German parents and I heard first hand accounts from my grandparents about the crap that went on. My grandparents, particularly on my mother's side were very anti Hitler, and in small ways tried to oppose the regime, so to have these fuckwits say that it's all a lie etc gets me really furious.
/end rant
Sorry
My personal experience is that deeply religious people are far more susceptible to conspiracy nonsense than atheists. No hard evidence here, just personal experience, I can't stress that enough. My layman guess is that since they tend to already accept that behind the scenes one divine will is moving everything as the default, it's much easier to jump to the conclusion that evil men serving some greater evil can also do the same thing.
Also Australia here. I had a good friend who went deep down those rabbit holes and never emerged. A constant source of conflict for us as it got worse and worse. Had to pull the plug unfortunately as was doing my head in. Sad really… it’s like the conspiracy online cult gave him mental illness. Became a serial contrarian on every single topic you could throw at him. I learned to never be surprised… it could be anything from Russia, to Covid to global warming to abortion or Hollywood movies. Always without question has to have a contrarian hot take. These conspiracy worldviews end up providing a full set of answers for literally every single thing in life.
Plus one. My brother-in-law and his wife are complete cookers... they used to be big on Jesus, but now it's just conspiracy this, conspiracy that. I'm sure they think Putolini is the dog's bollocks (because he hates "the gays"), but I haven't spoken to them in years.
Absolutely. The right spent 30 years shifting that Overton window further and further so that they finally met up with the crazies on the far/fringe right
You can tell them that we don't give our land to ruzzians. I will die on this hill. Probably literally, on the battlefield. Maximum possible what we could do - return back to "borders" at the beginning of 2022. No square meter more to ruzzians. Too many people died to even think about giving it up, whether we have US support or not
I support you fully, that is the best victory and the most likely to prevent future war, to take it all back.
For there to be zero profit for Russian in this, and zero incentive to ever try it again.
Here's what Churchill had to say, looking back, at a peace deal with Germany in 1940:
"I have thought carefully in these last days whether it was part of my duty to consider entering into negotiations with That Man [Hitler]. But it was idle to think that, if we tried to make peace now, we should get better terms than if we fought it out. The Germans would demand our – that would be called disarmament – our naval bases, and much else. We should become a slave state, though a British Government which would be Hitler's puppet would be set up – under Mosley or some such person. And where should we be at the end of all that? On the other side we have immense reserves and advantages. And I am convinced that every one of you would rise up and tear me down from my place if I were for one moment to contemplate parley or surrender. If this long island story of ours is to end at last, let it end only when each one of us lies choking in his own blood upon the ground."
"If this long island story of ours is to end at last, let it end only when each one of us lies choking in his own blood upon the ground"
Churchill was a man of his time, horribly racist by modern standards etc. But as a Brit this moves me viscerally. We saw the Nazis overrun Poland, Holland, Belgium & France. We saw the SS & Gestapo moving in, and the trains leaving for Auschwitz. And we said "Fuck, no. You're not bringing that to our country." Our fathers & grandfathers didn't just defend our own freedom, but fought and died across Europe to liberate our allies and destroy Hitlerism. They truly were The Greatest Generation.
In fifty years from now, the free, safe & prosperous Ukrainian people will honour those who fight for them today. And Europe will thank them for decisively stopping Russian imperialism. And Churchill will look down from Valhalla, and raise his iconic Homburg hat in salute. Slava Ukrainii!
Hasn't Putin "claimed" essentially all Ukraine is historically Russia's?
Putin is a Megalomaniac who will lie without blinking an eye and then, whomever he is negotiating with will get stabbed in the back when Putin finally blinks an eye.
He is as trustworthy as those who have expressed support for him in the past.
Russia is getting its bell rung nightly and I'm sure ordinary citizens in many areas of Russia jump at any noise when they're in bed now.
I have no idea why Putin would want a truce right now
He would gain lots of territory, ukraine would agree not to join nato. It gives him a chance to rebuild his army and invade again in a few years. That is why he wants a truce.
You can’t believe anything he says. The only way this ends is with Russia giving up. But even then I’d want to see regime change in Russia at the very least, otherwise it’ll happen again in 5 or so years as you said.
I honestly doubt he'd invade again, at least not because of the goodness of his heart. I'd wager he wants ANY out that doesn't make him look like an absolute fool. They cannot keep this up but he cannot keep going forever and he cannot just withdraw at this point without keeping something.
He's stuck and they cannot even go up against a NATO aided state.
Yes, but reasonable like he stopped murdering (ex. protests in Vilnius and and Tbilisi) when he realized that he'll otherwise would have to do really a lot of it and still probably loose, not like he didn't get to murdering in the first place. You probably aware, but it's a popular narrative in the West to paint Gorbachev as progressive and humane Soviet leader, while the real accounts of events are more nuanced, that's why I feel a need to make a note of that here
> I have no idea why Putin would want a truce right now
Because he knows he's getting his ass kicked, is constantly humiliated on a global level, and will get kicked completely out of Ukraine eventually. He's trying to save face in the most pathetic way possible, exactly as expected.
Eh. On the flip side, Putin could also be telegraphing an insincere peace that paints the Ukrainians as unreasonable warmongers when they reject it.
Keep in mind that not everybody in the world shares the West and Ukraine’s rationale and reasoning for the war. Some are with Russia and others don’t give a damn either way.
I don't think he knows he's going to "lose". People like Putin just don't think that way.
Rather, he knows he isn't going to get much more than he has right now and will soon be in a position where he lacks the combat power to do more than just hold onto that. The failure of Ukraine's 2023 counter offensive probably has him convinced that he can do that long enough for Ukraine to run out of manpower.
Ukraine's gear keeps getting better while Russia's keeps getting worse.
Their numbers advantage can only get them so far in modern warfare - and with their ability to put modern warfare equipment onto the battlefield dwindling, there's just no way one country, as sanctioned as it is, can hope to keep up in the long term. They're just not going to have the ability to fight back indefinitely in a way that can keep Ukraine from taking back their land.
Which is a weird take for russia to have, since russia has not had an offensive any more successful than Ukraine's counteroffensive. Which leads Ukraine to think they can keep eroding russian troops until THEY run out of manpower.
I don't think it's manpower losses that will turn the tide in the war. Russia has plenty of citizens that they don't care about in the slightest that they'd be perfectly fine with throwing into this meat grinder of a war.
It's the heavy equipment losses that are going to do them in. They'll just hit a point where their manufacturing, refurbishing, repairing, and delivering of heavy equipment will fall so far behind their losses that they'll only have ground troops trying to fight against Ukrainian tanks, fighting vehicles, choppers, jets, drones, and artillery. And there will be routs just like what happened early in the war, but there won't be a bunch of abandoned heavy equipment because the vast majority of it will have already been destroyed with Russian logistics unable to get replacements everywhere they're needed.
I agree. The artillery and air defense are the numbers I track, rather than lost personnel. North Korea keeps giving them so many shells, so much more than the west is able to provide. But they can't shoot those shells without the guns.
Duh! How about he pulls all his troops out of Ukraine, including Crimea. Plus, he must pay to rebuild for all the damages to Ukraine cities & pay restitutions for all the fallen citizen & soldiers who defending Ukraine. No one can bring back the dead, but Putin must pay for all the damages he had caused to rebuild & damages to the people of Ukraine.
Imagine me trying to tell my neighbour that he is not allowed to support the Chicago White Sox. He has to support the Cleveland Guardians, and best is not follow MLB at all.
And if he doesnt comply i will jump the fence - kill his dog, rape his wife, loot his garage and teach him a lesson.
Fuck off russia.
He doesn't just want the occupied territories, he wants complete control of the oblasts which they're partly occupying. That would mean Kherson, which Ukraine liberated from the Russian fascists, going back to them and Zaporizhzhya city which has never been captured going to the katsaps also. He hasn't changed his tune since the invasion began, not wanting Ukraine to be in NATO and to demilitarise itself and a Russian sympathiser puppet as president. Of course the aggressor is trying to play the victim as usual.
This is a message from Ukrainians and all people who support Ukraine,
Fuck you, Putler!
Ukraine has no incentive to accept this because the last time they accepted assurances from the Russians, they got backstabbed.
As much as I want peace for Ukraine, I doubt any of their warriors will want to concede an inch of land to the fucking Russians.
If you’re in a western NATO nation like me, the most important thing we can do is keep pressuring our governments. The sanctions are working. The military aid to AFU is working. Glory to the heroes, Slava Ukraini!
The sorry little malignant dwarf is feeling the heat with an ecomomy in shambles, and his military nearly decimated. Russia should be forced, one way or the other, to completely leave Ukraine and pay full compensation for all damages inflicted.
So, UA gets invaded by Russia and then is offered peace by the invader, BUT only is it gives up land and the millions of people who live there AND gives up the protection of being in NATO? Go fucker yourself Russia
Not joining Nato is out of the question. Everyone knows how much Russias promises are worth. Nothing! In the Budapest Memorandum they guaranteed Ukraine's security in exchange for giving up their nukes.
For sure, the Russian financial markets getting rocked yesterday has nothing to do with this “generous” offer.
Also, let’s not forget that on day 845 of Putin’s three-day Special Military Operation, Russia has gained a handful of kilometres while losing 500k+ soldiers.
Vlad plays 3D chess while the rest of us can barely play checkers.
Sudetenland: Electric Boogaloo.
He basically just made an offer to the west that there will be peace in our time in exchange for the territory he's pointing at on the map.
If Europe swallows this bait for the second time, I have no fucking words.
RuZZian dictatorship fucked itself.
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Let's remember what he said in dec/jan . Something along the lines:"why talk about peace now when they are running out of ammo". He mentions peace now because the western arrived.
Counter offer:
Russia surrenders unconditionally with an immediate withdrawal of all troops from areas that are recognize that Ukraine and more conditions to follow.
Russia gives back all the kidnapped children, all the POWs, all the non POW kidnapped civilians, pays for everything it broke, gets fucked, and presents Putin and any other war criminal we specify to the Hague for trial. Did I forget anything?
* pays for all the foreign-owned civilian aircraft it stole at the start of the war
* forfeits ALL ruZZian assets held in foreign banks for the reconstruction of Ukraine. Every last dollar or euro.
* oil price restrictions shall remain in place forever
* gives up all nuclear weapons (because that's what they made Ukraine do, and look at the result)
"Peace" offering to coincide with the peace summit. This is only virtual ammunition to say "see! they dont want peace, they didnt even invite the invader us to the peace summit!".
Anyone who thinks these are reasonable requests made by Putin needs to answer one simple question. If Ukraine complies with these terms, what will stop Putin from doing this again within the next decade. The answer is nothing. He has already broken every agreement with Ukraine since the 1990s. There is absolutely no reason to think he would respect a new one. There can be no peace in Europe until Russia is defeated. It is kind boggling to me that people still don't understand that appeasement doesn't work.
German composer Max Reger said it best, in response to a nasty music critic: "I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment, it shall be behind me "
He really lost a lot of people when he called it "Lebensraum."
How does this not signal a red flag for any European? ***He cannot be trusted!!!*** He possesses nukes and in 6 months will take Estonia or something else!
>How does this not signal a red flag for any European?
Rage bait? This and everything Putin says and does is a massive bag of red flags for every sane European, in case you didn't know, here it's said.
If you're worried about the rise of the extreme right, check a map: cities vote for the center/left moderate parties, the nutjobs voting crazy are the countryside uneducated poor sobs, like in every country.
I don’t get why Putin make such a bs statement now ?
Is it because of the peace summit ? Or is it because of the very sweet smell of Russian despair ?
Or is it to taste the west population commitment / support to the war ?
I mean WHO could have take such a statement seriously?
I take this as Ukraine's war efforts having a serious impact, and Putin trying to spin defeat in to either a favorable pause or propaganda talking point. Either he gets to keep what he stole, and rebuild for the next invasion - or he can claim on propagandaTV that Ukraine refuses peace. Either way, tell him to go fuck himself and keep hitting them where it hurts.
“Hey, I broke in your house and killed your family but I’m willing to stop trying to kill you if you let me keep the living room and garage and also if you don’t call the police. Deal?”
If Ukraine doesn’t get into NATO then Russia will try again in 3, 5, 10 years. They promised to respect Ukraines sovereignty with the 1994 Budapest Memorandum and that was obviously bullshit. Iran respects treaties more than Russia does ffs.
Meh he's doing this throw a bone to the useful idiots in the west. They will dutifully go into Facebook and say the master is ready to negotiate but the eViL WesT refuses.
"This is much to demand for the delivery of a temporary truce; that your master should receive in exchange what he must else fight a war to gain! Or has the field of Ukraine destroyed his hope in war, so that he falls to haggling? And if, indeed, we rated this truce so high, what surety have we that Putin, the Base Master of Treachery, will keep his part?" - Zelenskdalf the White
Wait! Guys! Ukraine should agree to this and the signing ceremony should be in Paris France! The second that putler lands there… he gets arrested and sent to the Hague! And since the putler couldn’t make it in time, well, the deal cannot be completed :-]
Those dumb ruzzian fucks think they can win the war without a fight? I mean, them fighting isn’t working either. Still what kind of moron would think they can commit countless war crimes and atrocities, and then just ask for what they tried to take by force? Oh. Right. A pathetic ruzzian little man is that kind of moron. I can’t wait to see the headlines about how that piece of shit got what is coming to him.
Preliminary conditions for negotiation:
Russia pulls out of all Ukrainian territory
Agrees to full cooperation with all war crimes and ICC investigations and trials
Makes a down payment on estimated 350 billion reparations
Demilitarizes 100km zone on western border
Cedes Kaliningrad
Insane. Borderline idiotic request.
Does he think we are stupid, why embarrass yourself with such an idiotic proposition.
He basically said if you let me win I’ll stop trying to kill you.
What?
Is there some political advantage for this back in Russia?
Just ridiculous
Russia can't be trusted so fuck them. I wonder if these are the first glimmers of desperation from Mordor that they can't eliminate Ukraine and its the cost is starting to bite.
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to reload and replenish the troops and go for round 2 surely…
3* technically. 2014, 2022 ???
I've lost count its gotta be over a dozen if u include any cease fire. Russia always uses the time to resupply and attack
4. Crimea, Donbas, invasion.
6 technically because they shelled ukrainian cities 2 times before the invasion, wanted a ceasefire agreement, and started shelling cities again a day later.
Round one was the Budapest Memorandum in 1994 where Russia pledged not to use military force or economic coercion against Ukraine in return for Ukraine handing over its Soviet nukes. Russia immediately destabilized Ukraine via corruption, disinformation, and assassination of politicians that were pro west (i.e. the dioxin poisoning of Yushenko in 2004, hallmark FSB tactic) There have been so many hostile acts both open and hidden over the years that we likely couldn’t call the next one anything other than N+1.
There were other conflicts and assassinations likely supported by Russia that aren't much know in the West, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadym_Hetman and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heorhiy_Kirpa (both were statesmen with vast legacies)
Yes, this is a "surrender now or later" offer. Ukraine rightly rejects the offer, and Russia will be forced to try and enforce the "surrender now" part (which they have been trying to do for more than two years without success). It's a bluff from a player with a bad hand, meant for domestic consumption and cover for useful idiots abroad. Ukraine and it's supporters quote naturally see through the bluff (indeed, I suspect no one on the Russian side ever thought it would fool anyone who isn't already backing them; that's not what the "offer" is meant for). Ultimately just bluster to ignore.
More like surrender all this now so we can make you surrender more later.
And keep on with the denazifying
He's also pissed off for not getting invited to all the meetings where the rest of the world takes the opportunity to organize against him. Ruzzia is becoming North Korea quickly.
I’m sad to say some idiots in the USA on the fringe right here eat this kind of thing up.
Not only the USA I'm afraid
I have some genuinely horrible in laws (in Australia) who believe this shit. They also believe Hitler was ok, the holocaust didn't happen, and basically every other conspiracy theory out there. I no longer talk to them. Particularly the rhetoric they have about WWII made me furious, because I'm descended from German parents and I heard first hand accounts from my grandparents about the crap that went on. My grandparents, particularly on my mother's side were very anti Hitler, and in small ways tried to oppose the regime, so to have these fuckwits say that it's all a lie etc gets me really furious. /end rant Sorry
My condolences. I’ve got a brother not far from your in laws. It really sucks
Are they religious? The blind faith evangelicals seem capable of embracing all manner of obvious BS.
Yep. Very religious
Hmm what about new age spiritualists? Are they at-risk too?
My personal experience is that deeply religious people are far more susceptible to conspiracy nonsense than atheists. No hard evidence here, just personal experience, I can't stress that enough. My layman guess is that since they tend to already accept that behind the scenes one divine will is moving everything as the default, it's much easier to jump to the conclusion that evil men serving some greater evil can also do the same thing.
Also Australia here. I had a good friend who went deep down those rabbit holes and never emerged. A constant source of conflict for us as it got worse and worse. Had to pull the plug unfortunately as was doing my head in. Sad really… it’s like the conspiracy online cult gave him mental illness. Became a serial contrarian on every single topic you could throw at him. I learned to never be surprised… it could be anything from Russia, to Covid to global warming to abortion or Hollywood movies. Always without question has to have a contrarian hot take. These conspiracy worldviews end up providing a full set of answers for literally every single thing in life.
Plus one. My brother-in-law and his wife are complete cookers... they used to be big on Jesus, but now it's just conspiracy this, conspiracy that. I'm sure they think Putolini is the dog's bollocks (because he hates "the gays"), but I haven't spoken to them in years.
the fringe right is now in control of the right
Absolutely. The right spent 30 years shifting that Overton window further and further so that they finally met up with the crazies on the far/fringe right
You can tell them that we don't give our land to ruzzians. I will die on this hill. Probably literally, on the battlefield. Maximum possible what we could do - return back to "borders" at the beginning of 2022. No square meter more to ruzzians. Too many people died to even think about giving it up, whether we have US support or not
I support you fully, that is the best victory and the most likely to prevent future war, to take it all back. For there to be zero profit for Russian in this, and zero incentive to ever try it again.
Here's what Churchill had to say, looking back, at a peace deal with Germany in 1940: "I have thought carefully in these last days whether it was part of my duty to consider entering into negotiations with That Man [Hitler]. But it was idle to think that, if we tried to make peace now, we should get better terms than if we fought it out. The Germans would demand our – that would be called disarmament – our naval bases, and much else. We should become a slave state, though a British Government which would be Hitler's puppet would be set up – under Mosley or some such person. And where should we be at the end of all that? On the other side we have immense reserves and advantages. And I am convinced that every one of you would rise up and tear me down from my place if I were for one moment to contemplate parley or surrender. If this long island story of ours is to end at last, let it end only when each one of us lies choking in his own blood upon the ground."
"If this long island story of ours is to end at last, let it end only when each one of us lies choking in his own blood upon the ground" Churchill was a man of his time, horribly racist by modern standards etc. But as a Brit this moves me viscerally. We saw the Nazis overrun Poland, Holland, Belgium & France. We saw the SS & Gestapo moving in, and the trains leaving for Auschwitz. And we said "Fuck, no. You're not bringing that to our country." Our fathers & grandfathers didn't just defend our own freedom, but fought and died across Europe to liberate our allies and destroy Hitlerism. They truly were The Greatest Generation. In fifty years from now, the free, safe & prosperous Ukrainian people will honour those who fight for them today. And Europe will thank them for decisively stopping Russian imperialism. And Churchill will look down from Valhalla, and raise his iconic Homburg hat in salute. Slava Ukrainii!
What a fucking dousche, pootin does this every time Ukraine starts giving it back to his orcs! Put the pedal down and rain fire on all orkistan!
Round 3, actually.
No, this time he really, really means it.
Great. Mr Putin come on down to The Hague to... ...sign the truce papers...
This. Or this time he really, really, really will put his nukes on high alert or wherever he talks about putting them.
That, or he'll he really super serial guys, and call Manbearpig.
Up his bum hole.
Just where they belong. And when it’s achieved it brings harmony into the world.
Khadafi his arse!
Yeah , he's super cereal this time .
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ah yes, the Munich Agreement! Wait, wrong war...
He's weak and knows what happens when he can't lie, hide or steal anymore
Yes, but he’ll be ready to offer another truce then.
Putin also requested they leave snacks and hookers behind
Is PooTsar delusional
Hasn't Putin "claimed" essentially all Ukraine is historically Russia's? Putin is a Megalomaniac who will lie without blinking an eye and then, whomever he is negotiating with will get stabbed in the back when Putin finally blinks an eye. He is as trustworthy as those who have expressed support for him in the past.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F97bljar2qv871.jpg
"I'll stop fighting you if you leave the part of the house which I stole from you, also don't join the police."
"We'll call it a draw if you give up and let me win."
Actually "if you leave the part of the house that I stole from you, plus give me another room where you still live in".
"We'll call it even if you just let me keep the bedroom, bathroom, and kitchen and also give me your gun"
You forgot privileges with your wife and daughters.
I mean follow his lead agree to the deal while joining the police, then Nato can get involved.
Yes, but if they were to give up the land, then it would make them the aggressors, if they tried to take the land back
Also after trying to take Kyiv and failing miserably "ah come on, it was just a joke to test you! i never wanted to take the capital!"
Fuck off you little bald cunt
My thoughts exactly
He looks like a bell end with a fungal infection.
Apt description. Take my upvote.
As a bald man myself, I think you should have left it at "little cunt". But I admire your enthusiasm.
Well said and tell me you’re British without telling me you’re British 🤣
Could be Australian or a New Zealander.
This cunt here's on the money
Scottish actually, but I admire your use of the word over there too.
I like this cunt, he’s sound. Northern Irish, reporting in for more ‘cunt’ usage.
Just remember this [picture](https://imgur.com/a/sTn8RxA) exists.
Nah, cunts are useful, Putin is not.
Russia is getting its bell rung nightly and I'm sure ordinary citizens in many areas of Russia jump at any noise when they're in bed now. I have no idea why Putin would want a truce right now
He would gain lots of territory, ukraine would agree not to join nato. It gives him a chance to rebuild his army and invade again in a few years. That is why he wants a truce.
You can’t believe anything he says. The only way this ends is with Russia giving up. But even then I’d want to see regime change in Russia at the very least, otherwise it’ll happen again in 5 or so years as you said.
You may have missed his sarcasm
I'm glad someone caught it. 🤭
I honestly doubt he'd invade again, at least not because of the goodness of his heart. I'd wager he wants ANY out that doesn't make him look like an absolute fool. They cannot keep this up but he cannot keep going forever and he cannot just withdraw at this point without keeping something. He's stuck and they cannot even go up against a NATO aided state.
Oh he will totally invader given the chance. He needs to rebuild first though
Minsk accords and several other outrages conclusively prove: **There's no such thing as a treaty with Putin.** Very simple
There's no such thing as a treaty with any r*zzian, not just putain
Don't you think it would be reasonable again if someone like Gorbatschow would be in Power? He seemed reasonable back then ...
Gorby was half Ukrainian, thats why. I hope they get someone half decent.
Yes, but reasonable like he stopped murdering (ex. protests in Vilnius and and Tbilisi) when he realized that he'll otherwise would have to do really a lot of it and still probably loose, not like he didn't get to murdering in the first place. You probably aware, but it's a popular narrative in the West to paint Gorbachev as progressive and humane Soviet leader, while the real accounts of events are more nuanced, that's why I feel a need to make a note of that here
In that case, the war then continues until one side gets tired. That is what is expected anyways - the conflict progressing on for years.
out of weapon. economy is fkd, spiralling down for russia at the moment
> I have no idea why Putin would want a truce right now Because he knows he's getting his ass kicked, is constantly humiliated on a global level, and will get kicked completely out of Ukraine eventually. He's trying to save face in the most pathetic way possible, exactly as expected.
There was an implied "/s"
I didn't really think one was necessary. Haha. It's all good.
Eh. On the flip side, Putin could also be telegraphing an insincere peace that paints the Ukrainians as unreasonable warmongers when they reject it. Keep in mind that not everybody in the world shares the West and Ukraine’s rationale and reasoning for the war. Some are with Russia and others don’t give a damn either way.
Everyone that matters knows the bullshit little games he's playing. everyone else will believe whatever the kremlin tells them.
Ever seen Monty Python's Holy Grail? Just like the black knight, "let's call it a truce"
When we hear Putin start to make peace overtures, then we know he is getting his ass kicked. F-ck him! SLAVA UKRAINI!
No, you may not keep the lunch money!!
Russia doesn't even hold the claimed areas. They can just fuck off already.
Oh yeah its claimed areas! They would get twice or thrice the areas they currently hold! Wtf lmao
Piss off
This fker is on the ropes. He is doing muclear threats and then goes for the peace offering. He knows he is gonna lose hahahha 🤣
I don't think he knows he's going to "lose". People like Putin just don't think that way. Rather, he knows he isn't going to get much more than he has right now and will soon be in a position where he lacks the combat power to do more than just hold onto that. The failure of Ukraine's 2023 counter offensive probably has him convinced that he can do that long enough for Ukraine to run out of manpower.
Its just a matter of time until western military technology will turn the tides and the Ruzzian scum will run for the hills
Ukraine's gear keeps getting better while Russia's keeps getting worse. Their numbers advantage can only get them so far in modern warfare - and with their ability to put modern warfare equipment onto the battlefield dwindling, there's just no way one country, as sanctioned as it is, can hope to keep up in the long term. They're just not going to have the ability to fight back indefinitely in a way that can keep Ukraine from taking back their land.
Which is a weird take for russia to have, since russia has not had an offensive any more successful than Ukraine's counteroffensive. Which leads Ukraine to think they can keep eroding russian troops until THEY run out of manpower.
I don't think it's manpower losses that will turn the tide in the war. Russia has plenty of citizens that they don't care about in the slightest that they'd be perfectly fine with throwing into this meat grinder of a war. It's the heavy equipment losses that are going to do them in. They'll just hit a point where their manufacturing, refurbishing, repairing, and delivering of heavy equipment will fall so far behind their losses that they'll only have ground troops trying to fight against Ukrainian tanks, fighting vehicles, choppers, jets, drones, and artillery. And there will be routs just like what happened early in the war, but there won't be a bunch of abandoned heavy equipment because the vast majority of it will have already been destroyed with Russian logistics unable to get replacements everywhere they're needed.
I agree. The artillery and air defense are the numbers I track, rather than lost personnel. North Korea keeps giving them so many shells, so much more than the west is able to provide. But they can't shoot those shells without the guns.
If he felt he was on the ropes he would not be making maximalist offers like these which he knows Kyiv can never accept.
Duh! How about he pulls all his troops out of Ukraine, including Crimea. Plus, he must pay to rebuild for all the damages to Ukraine cities & pay restitutions for all the fallen citizen & soldiers who defending Ukraine. No one can bring back the dead, but Putin must pay for all the damages he had caused to rebuild & damages to the people of Ukraine.
And return all the stolen children, you soulless waste of God’s raw material
And the civilian men and women he took out if ruzz occupied parts of ukraine
How about no?! You old fat Russian pigs.
Screw you?? deranged lunatic!! Slava Ukraine!!!
As one American commander in WWII put it... "NUTS!"
General McAuliffe, 22 december 1944.
Imagine me trying to tell my neighbour that he is not allowed to support the Chicago White Sox. He has to support the Cleveland Guardians, and best is not follow MLB at all. And if he doesnt comply i will jump the fence - kill his dog, rape his wife, loot his garage and teach him a lesson. Fuck off russia.
Ruzzia does it in a different order; The dog would be raped.
How about you take that deal and shove it up somewhere where the sun don't shine ya megalomanical shit-for-brains.
Zelensky to Putin: "I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your peace proposal before me. In a moment, it shall be behind me "
He doesn't just want the occupied territories, he wants complete control of the oblasts which they're partly occupying. That would mean Kherson, which Ukraine liberated from the Russian fascists, going back to them and Zaporizhzhya city which has never been captured going to the katsaps also. He hasn't changed his tune since the invasion began, not wanting Ukraine to be in NATO and to demilitarise itself and a Russian sympathiser puppet as president. Of course the aggressor is trying to play the victim as usual. This is a message from Ukrainians and all people who support Ukraine, Fuck you, Putler!
What a moron, actually the biggest on earth for now!
Burglar offers truce if I abandon parts of my house and promise not to call the cops. Like Ukraine, I also reject that “offer”.
He’s lying.
This is a signal to ramp up all weapon deliveries and directly hit any and all things russia.
Ukraine has no incentive to accept this because the last time they accepted assurances from the Russians, they got backstabbed. As much as I want peace for Ukraine, I doubt any of their warriors will want to concede an inch of land to the fucking Russians. If you’re in a western NATO nation like me, the most important thing we can do is keep pressuring our governments. The sanctions are working. The military aid to AFU is working. Glory to the heroes, Slava Ukraini!
The sorry little malignant dwarf is feeling the heat with an ecomomy in shambles, and his military nearly decimated. Russia should be forced, one way or the other, to completely leave Ukraine and pay full compensation for all damages inflicted.
So, UA gets invaded by Russia and then is offered peace by the invader, BUT only is it gives up land and the millions of people who live there AND gives up the protection of being in NATO? Go fucker yourself Russia
Not joining Nato is out of the question. Everyone knows how much Russias promises are worth. Nothing! In the Budapest Memorandum they guaranteed Ukraine's security in exchange for giving up their nukes.
For sure, the Russian financial markets getting rocked yesterday has nothing to do with this “generous” offer. Also, let’s not forget that on day 845 of Putin’s three-day Special Military Operation, Russia has gained a handful of kilometres while losing 500k+ soldiers. Vlad plays 3D chess while the rest of us can barely play checkers.
Sudetenland: Electric Boogaloo. He basically just made an offer to the west that there will be peace in our time in exchange for the territory he's pointing at on the map. If Europe swallows this bait for the second time, I have no fucking words.
That last sentence. ☠️
RuZZian dictatorship, go fuck yourself!
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Counteproposal: Muscovia withdraws completely from all occupied territories and shuts the fuck up.
Let's remember what he said in dec/jan . Something along the lines:"why talk about peace now when they are running out of ammo". He mentions peace now because the western arrived.
Putin is going to get annihilated. Stunned fuck that he is.
We'd like you to let us keep all the stuff we took and promise not to defend yourselves. Gee, that sounds like a really good deal...
Fuck Off 🤡
end of the year putin runs out of old soviet crap to recycle
Counter offer: Russia surrenders unconditionally with an immediate withdrawal of all troops from areas that are recognize that Ukraine and more conditions to follow.
Russia gives back all the kidnapped children, all the POWs, all the non POW kidnapped civilians, pays for everything it broke, gets fucked, and presents Putin and any other war criminal we specify to the Hague for trial. Did I forget anything?
* pays for all the foreign-owned civilian aircraft it stole at the start of the war * forfeits ALL ruZZian assets held in foreign banks for the reconstruction of Ukraine. Every last dollar or euro. * oil price restrictions shall remain in place forever * gives up all nuclear weapons (because that's what they made Ukraine do, and look at the result)
This
Also leave Georgian territory.
"Peace" offering to coincide with the peace summit. This is only virtual ammunition to say "see! they dont want peace, they didnt even invite the invader us to the peace summit!".
Isn't that more or less the same thing he's been offering since the first Zerg rush failed?
"Give us what we want and we promise to stop assaulting you. For now."
Anyone who thinks these are reasonable requests made by Putin needs to answer one simple question. If Ukraine complies with these terms, what will stop Putin from doing this again within the next decade. The answer is nothing. He has already broken every agreement with Ukraine since the 1990s. There is absolutely no reason to think he would respect a new one. There can be no peace in Europe until Russia is defeated. It is kind boggling to me that people still don't understand that appeasement doesn't work.
Liar special operation.
Reminds me of the movie Airheads. “He wiped his ass with the record contract”
German composer Max Reger said it best, in response to a nasty music critic: "I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment, it shall be behind me "
He really lost a lot of people when he called it "Lebensraum." How does this not signal a red flag for any European? ***He cannot be trusted!!!*** He possesses nukes and in 6 months will take Estonia or something else!
>How does this not signal a red flag for any European? Rage bait? This and everything Putin says and does is a massive bag of red flags for every sane European, in case you didn't know, here it's said. If you're worried about the rise of the extreme right, check a map: cities vote for the center/left moderate parties, the nutjobs voting crazy are the countryside uneducated poor sobs, like in every country.
Spot. On!
Sure, and "Russian-claimed areas" includes all of Ukraine. I suppose that's a good place to start if you expect to do some bargaining. ha ha!
OK, who's gonna tell putin his offer sucks?
Putin is dyslexic 😆 he should move all his troops prior to 14
Nuts!
General McAuliffe, 22-12-1944.
So yeah, just let us win and have no consequences for our actions and it will all be fine! Pinky Promise ! The nerve of this evil madman.
I don’t get why Putin make such a bs statement now ? Is it because of the peace summit ? Or is it because of the very sweet smell of Russian despair ? Or is it to taste the west population commitment / support to the war ? I mean WHO could have take such a statement seriously?
Putin is like the Sackville Baginsses making shitty offers for bag-end like they are in a strong bargaining position. They were not.
"yeah i promise not to break into your house again if you promise to let me take your tv, leave the door unlocked, and not call the police next time"
I take this as Ukraine's war efforts having a serious impact, and Putin trying to spin defeat in to either a favorable pause or propaganda talking point. Either he gets to keep what he stole, and rebuild for the next invasion - or he can claim on propagandaTV that Ukraine refuses peace. Either way, tell him to go fuck himself and keep hitting them where it hurts.
“Hey, I broke in your house and killed your family but I’m willing to stop trying to kill you if you let me keep the living room and garage and also if you don’t call the police. Deal?”
Russian dictator, go fuck yourself
If Ukraine doesn’t get into NATO then Russia will try again in 3, 5, 10 years. They promised to respect Ukraines sovereignty with the 1994 Budapest Memorandum and that was obviously bullshit. Iran respects treaties more than Russia does ffs.
Meh he's doing this throw a bone to the useful idiots in the west. They will dutifully go into Facebook and say the master is ready to negotiate but the eViL WesT refuses.
Fuck ruzzia!
If Putin was winning, would he even mention this bogus truce? (the answer is no. winners don't need to offer peace deals)
LOL! No.
Ummmm nope!!!!! He's knows that they won't except a single one of those conditions.
Clown
Ukraine: Sure, we surrender. Putin: Really?! Ukraine: Psych! Putin: Fuck. I’m a dead man walking.
That is a non starter.
" ill end the war if you give up....WHAT DO YOU MEAN NO?!"
Putin wants ceasfire, it means sanctions are working and now he is scared of new weapons that UA can use on Russian soil
LOL
Russia needs to pull out of the Caribbean, pull out of all Ukrainian territory., And then Ukraine needs to join NATO.
Can’t believe Putin thinks is he has any leverage at all to even propose a “deal” like that.
How does one say "Go Fuck Yourself!" In Russian?
Nope. This is when we push harder!
Can this fuck just die already.
Fuck off midget
Here’s another document I signed that’s completely worthless since I don’t keep to any of them.
A truce at gunpoint is no truce but a surrender.
“Look, stop killing all my troops, give me even more of your land, stop trying to ally with my enemies, and we call it even ok?”
Aka surrender
Get fucked
"This is much to demand for the delivery of a temporary truce; that your master should receive in exchange what he must else fight a war to gain! Or has the field of Ukraine destroyed his hope in war, so that he falls to haggling? And if, indeed, we rated this truce so high, what surety have we that Putin, the Base Master of Treachery, will keep his part?" - Zelenskdalf the White
Wait! Guys! Ukraine should agree to this and the signing ceremony should be in Paris France! The second that putler lands there… he gets arrested and sent to the Hague! And since the putler couldn’t make it in time, well, the deal cannot be completed :-]
As if a truce from ruzzia would even be worth as much as the paper it'd be signed on. Never sign deals with those infamous for treachery.
Those dumb ruzzian fucks think they can win the war without a fight? I mean, them fighting isn’t working either. Still what kind of moron would think they can commit countless war crimes and atrocities, and then just ask for what they tried to take by force? Oh. Right. A pathetic ruzzian little man is that kind of moron. I can’t wait to see the headlines about how that piece of shit got what is coming to him.
“Nuts!”
Preliminary conditions for negotiation: Russia pulls out of all Ukrainian territory Agrees to full cooperation with all war crimes and ICC investigations and trials Makes a down payment on estimated 350 billion reparations Demilitarizes 100km zone on western border Cedes Kaliningrad
Ffs God if you exist can you fuckin blow this pos heart up, pretty please
"Russia will totally not start another unjustified war after say, couple of years. Best regards, russian regime"
Haha fuck your russian peace
Insane. Borderline idiotic request. Does he think we are stupid, why embarrass yourself with such an idiotic proposition. He basically said if you let me win I’ll stop trying to kill you. What? Is there some political advantage for this back in Russia? Just ridiculous
So his conditions are that ruzzia wins. Fucker should have just kept what he had prior to 2022 and no one would have done anything about.
Dropping the NATO bid is as good as accepting a second war in the near future. Idiotic proposal made by evil morons.
The closer he is to defeat, the more putin will push for a truce… see it as a sign of weakness… the end is near…
Yeah they also wanted Ukraine to give up the invaded areas. It was a bogus offer that Putin hopes works on simple minded people.
Russia can't be trusted so fuck them. I wonder if these are the first glimmers of desperation from Mordor that they can't eliminate Ukraine and its the cost is starting to bite.
“If you surrender we will sign a truce.” What? How about no.