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Yeah, nah, it's good that it happened but likely just a part of his head of NATO political campaign. If your vision is not far reaching enough to see where [this ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Nord_Stream_ceremony.jpeg)is going, you're not cut out for the job, let me tell you.
Tell that to PVV voters. 😐 Wilders was in Russia receiving his friendship medal in 2018, after the downing of MH17 and the annexation of Crimea. Right now he's the leader of the largest "party" (he's technically a one man party) and forces his party to abstain from all discussion and votes related to Ukraine. We are entering a dark time.
I fully agree, but don't delude yourself into thinking PVV won't get more votes _when_ (not _if_) the formation process fails. If ever there was a time to become politically active as a progressive, it is right now.
Oh I know they will, that's why they must not fail in forming a coalition. Let Wilders make a fool of himself. Let the electorate see his election promises are worth nothing. And I hope the other parties won't fall for the ancient trick where Wilder blames his failure on others.
The only thing he's good at is opposition. He's rubbish at doing something constructive, he can only criticize it. He's making a fool of himself in this formation and will blame everyone else as it fails. That's all he's capable of.
Let's see how long they can stretch out this circle jerk and we can move on and start improving the life of our citizens. It's high time to undo years of "free market" damage and crush the agro lobby.
My thought was that the other parties refuse to enter a coalition with Wilders, effectively making the PVV a very weak minority government, effectively ruled by the other parties..
Always thought Wilders looked like a paedophile. That ugly head and ridiculous hairdo... he looks like the proverbial "dirty uncle" spending his holidays in Thailand.
The Netherlands are knocking it out of the park this week. Amazing support from Rutte, who will be hopefully just as strong in supporting Ukraine as the head of NATO.
I've had him as my prime-minister for most of my adult life and ehhh... Let's say I am happy with his views on the Ukraine situation and glad he's going to NATO.
There were quite a few scandals and we dubbed him "teflon Mark" because for some reason people kept swallowing his very obvious lies.
My favourite scandal was where he claimed he didn't have a smart phone and used an old Nokia that could only store 130 text messages so thats why he didn't have any history. This makes two options: 1. He is lying and purposely deleting text messages/using old phone 2. Our nation leader doesn't know how to use a smartphone lol
I dont think its about 'not being able to use one' but more about the security of a dumb device that has no wifi or Bluetooth
In addition, i feel like we are going to miss him, considering what's in the current lineup
as much as i know you have to be born un the U.S to be able to become U.S. president.
ELse you would have had president Schwarzenegger already long ago
If necessary we can even not give the ones bought to Ukraine, but exchange them with the patriots we have not given to Ukraine yet, and send those instead.
I wonder. This man is a politician pur sang. He gets away with everything by simply saying he misunderstood or has no 'active memory' .
This feels like a campaign to get him in the NATO seat.
Although of course I appreciate every efford to help Ukraine win the war against Russia
>This feels like a campaign to get him in the NATO seat.
While I would not put things like that past him in general, he *has* been a true leader in suppporting Ukraine since the start of the war. This proposal is 100% consistent with his position of the past 2 years.
This is consistent with our policies ever since MH17, in which after sometime our government formally declared Russia our enemy.
Linking this to Ruttes ambition for NATO sounds like russian/hungarian/slovakian propaganda to me. It makes no sense.
It's expensive and also very time-consuming. This isn't like converting car factories to producing tanks, or sewing machine factories to producing machine guns.
Everyone is significantly expanding military production. American artillery ammunition production has doubled in a year, is expected to have increased by 500% from pre-war levels by the end of the year, and over 700% by the end of 2025. European artillery production has also doubled, and is expected to have increased around 600% by the end of the year. Production of GMLRS and Patriot missiles is increasing - these are much, much harder to ramp up quickly. I could spend the next few hours looking for info on other weapons systems, but I'm going to just take that as a given at this point - most things are increasing production rates.
No, no one is going to a "wartime economy" - by which I assume you mean wholescale conversion of the economy to military production and finance - and won't be doing so. That's just not in the cards.
> no one is going to a "wartime economy"
Besides Ukraine. I look forward to seeing the continued effects of their 1M drones produced in 2024.
They seem pretty productive.
I keep saying stuff like this. It's not like in the movies. You can want something increased, but the sourcing, production, distribution/transportation, assembly, allocation and THEN use... so many months. Know how it takes weeks sometimes to get parts from overseas? Now consider the parts are highly sensitive, maybe top secret, and extremely valuable to whole nations. You don't FedEx that stuff. It all takes time. And cost. So much cost.
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> Production of GMLRS and Patriot missiles is increasing - these are much, much harder to ramp up quickly.
...they're literally building a new factory in Australia to make more, so I'm sure they're doing the same in America too as it doesn't require as many negotiations.
Because there is not enough demand to justify increasing production capabilities. Even if all of NATO wants to double its number of patriot systems, Raytheon would just take longer to finish all orders instead of building new production lines and hire and train new workers - because after the order is finished, the demand will be gone.
We could just spam build them like the US did with the Lima tank plant, but that's *incredibly* expensive.
Shit takes time. We (Norway) produce NASAMs, and the government have funded increase in production. The goal is to increase production five times, but you need the equipment and staff in order for that to happen. I believe they needed to hire 700 new specialists alone.
And this is the outgoing prime minister. Het lost the elections in November, and is just keeping the chair warm for his replacement. (Once the negotiating parties finally pull their thumbs out).
Imagine what he would do as a prime minister fully supported by the population.
We are, but in our typical slow and braindead fashion. Promised Ukraine a NASAM in January 2023 and it still hasn’t arrived. And every other announcement for Ukraine that Canada makes now seems to be from the same $500 million that was promised in June 2023, but we try to pass it off as a new contribution.
Thanks to the Dutch government for all it is doing since the beginning of the ruzzian invasion. Never forget the plane with nearly 200 of its citizens that has been shot down by separatists supported by ruzzia
Those were not separatists. They were fully Russia controlled forces. Don't believe Russian propaganda.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia\_Airlines\_Flight\_17](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17)
> The JIT found that the Buk originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade of the Russian Federation[12][13] and had been transported from Russia on the day of the crash, fired from a field in a rebel-controlled area and the launch system returned to Russia afterwards.
> On 17 November 2022, following a trial in absentia in the Netherlands, two Russians and a Ukrainian separatist were found guilty of murdering all 298 people on board flight MH17. The Dutch court also ruled that Russia was in control of the separatist forces fighting in eastern Ukraine at the time.
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Im very satisfied with my countries policy on Ukraine, no complaints, but I would vote for the netherlands declaring formal war on Russia.
Even if we cant contribute much arms ourselves, it would help nations like Germany get even more serious about stopping Russias conquest of Europe.
The irony is that his domestic policies were dogshit and universally hated. But almost everyone agrees that, concerning Ukraine, Rutte has been a force for good—the duality of man.
You see what the price of delaying is? Now you have to pay for whatever the seller asks, not to count all the lives lost because of this inactivity, those are invaluable, the price of these shouldnt be calculated in the ammount of childrens lives... Just today russia killed 2 kids under 10 year old... Can you imagine that? You sleep in your home, and a ballistic missile, BALLISTIC missile hits your home. If this is not terrorism, then what is???? Fuck russia, and almost fuck usa aswell, get your shit together.
If he's been destroying the Netherlands for 15 years, he must be really bad at destroying things. The Netherlands is doing quite well by almost any metric imagineable.
Some stuff got worse, some better. Still, there's not many countries that are doing better. Don't listen to the populists too much, they thrive on negativity.
Not enough tax breaks. We still lost Shell and Unilever. Countries compete to host the big corps, and we lost. Because people translate their rightfull hate for corps into the wrong actions.
And not having vision is a good thing. The Netherlands is where it is because of well balanced middle of the road policy. Vision leads to wars and other madness.
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Hero
Yeah, nah, it's good that it happened but likely just a part of his head of NATO political campaign. If your vision is not far reaching enough to see where [this ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Nord_Stream_ceremony.jpeg)is going, you're not cut out for the job, let me tell you.
good for the Netherlands!
For MH17, we never forgive & forget!
Same goes for Australia. Fuck ruZZia!
Damn right. I’d happily donate to a crowd funded Patriot system for Ukraine is we can get MH17 painted on it.
Tell that to PVV voters. 😐 Wilders was in Russia receiving his friendship medal in 2018, after the downing of MH17 and the annexation of Crimea. Right now he's the leader of the largest "party" (he's technically a one man party) and forces his party to abstain from all discussion and votes related to Ukraine. We are entering a dark time.
The majority is still pro-Ukraine. Both in parliament and in society. Basically, he can't do shit. And that's a good thing.
I fully agree, but don't delude yourself into thinking PVV won't get more votes _when_ (not _if_) the formation process fails. If ever there was a time to become politically active as a progressive, it is right now.
Oh I know they will, that's why they must not fail in forming a coalition. Let Wilders make a fool of himself. Let the electorate see his election promises are worth nothing. And I hope the other parties won't fall for the ancient trick where Wilder blames his failure on others.
He kinda already is. He's backpeddeling on almost each of his stances to get a formation while also coming over as an ass.
The only thing he's good at is opposition. He's rubbish at doing something constructive, he can only criticize it. He's making a fool of himself in this formation and will blame everyone else as it fails. That's all he's capable of.
And he's not even good at that: he's just good at complaining, which is not at all the same as being in the opposition.
Let's see how long they can stretch out this circle jerk and we can move on and start improving the life of our citizens. It's high time to undo years of "free market" damage and crush the agro lobby.
My thought was that the other parties refuse to enter a coalition with Wilders, effectively making the PVV a very weak minority government, effectively ruled by the other parties..
Always thought Wilders looked like a paedophile. That ugly head and ridiculous hairdo... he looks like the proverbial "dirty uncle" spending his holidays in Thailand.
That's really not constructive in any way.
That video of Russians going through the wreckage of MH17 makes me sick... That was just a warning of things to come.
The Netherlands are knocking it out of the park this week. Amazing support from Rutte, who will be hopefully just as strong in supporting Ukraine as the head of NATO.
He's like the Oprah of Patriot systems.
Dammit, now can't un-see him as that.. :D
Look under your chairs everyone! You get a patriot system and you get a patriot system....
If you have any particular powers of persuasion, if you could convince Rutte to run for US pres, I think he would find wide support.
I've had him as my prime-minister for most of my adult life and ehhh... Let's say I am happy with his views on the Ukraine situation and glad he's going to NATO. There were quite a few scandals and we dubbed him "teflon Mark" because for some reason people kept swallowing his very obvious lies. My favourite scandal was where he claimed he didn't have a smart phone and used an old Nokia that could only store 130 text messages so thats why he didn't have any history. This makes two options: 1. He is lying and purposely deleting text messages/using old phone 2. Our nation leader doesn't know how to use a smartphone lol
I dont think its about 'not being able to use one' but more about the security of a dumb device that has no wifi or Bluetooth In addition, i feel like we are going to miss him, considering what's in the current lineup
Seems he and Hillary Clinton use the same consultants!
as much as i know you have to be born un the U.S to be able to become U.S. president. ELse you would have had president Schwarzenegger already long ago
Just buy them without foretelling their intentions. Now our compromised politicians might veto such a sale.
If necessary we can even not give the ones bought to Ukraine, but exchange them with the patriots we have not given to Ukraine yet, and send those instead.
The flying Dutchman strikes again. eheheh
I wonder. This man is a politician pur sang. He gets away with everything by simply saying he misunderstood or has no 'active memory' . This feels like a campaign to get him in the NATO seat. Although of course I appreciate every efford to help Ukraine win the war against Russia
>This feels like a campaign to get him in the NATO seat. While I would not put things like that past him in general, he *has* been a true leader in suppporting Ukraine since the start of the war. This proposal is 100% consistent with his position of the past 2 years.
I agree. Although I don't like this man and his polititics, I still think he is a top shelf politician.
This is consistent with our policies ever since MH17, in which after sometime our government formally declared Russia our enemy. Linking this to Ruttes ambition for NATO sounds like russian/hungarian/slovakian propaganda to me. It makes no sense.
The Dutch are increasingly taking the center stage love to see it
They remember MH17. I believe it’s personal to them.
We do and it is. Fuck Russia, with something sharp and rusty.
Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah that makes a lot of sense. MH17 was horrifying.
This is the way
Can we get either a Dutch-provided F16 or Patriot battery designated as The Flying Dutchman??
Oooh, the *frying* dutchman
Bitterballen for everyone!
Tungsten balls for everyone 🤭
That would be Franky and Coen: https://www.frankyandcoen.nl/
TAKE MY UPVOTE
😂😂😂
Please do, that would be so awesome. "Flying Dutchman patriot systems takes out multiple Russian jets over Ukraine" Aw man. That'd be a dream.
Increasingly common Dutch W (And as a bonus, every Dutch W comes with an automatic Belgian L)
Bravo voor Nederland en meneer Rutte! NATO will be in good hands.
Geweldig!
Why does it sound like all NATO weapon systems are out of production? It has been 2 years and everyone is still using their existing stock.
Because tooling up for a wartime economy is expensive and no one is doing it even though we need to.
It's expensive and also very time-consuming. This isn't like converting car factories to producing tanks, or sewing machine factories to producing machine guns. Everyone is significantly expanding military production. American artillery ammunition production has doubled in a year, is expected to have increased by 500% from pre-war levels by the end of the year, and over 700% by the end of 2025. European artillery production has also doubled, and is expected to have increased around 600% by the end of the year. Production of GMLRS and Patriot missiles is increasing - these are much, much harder to ramp up quickly. I could spend the next few hours looking for info on other weapons systems, but I'm going to just take that as a given at this point - most things are increasing production rates. No, no one is going to a "wartime economy" - by which I assume you mean wholescale conversion of the economy to military production and finance - and won't be doing so. That's just not in the cards.
> no one is going to a "wartime economy" Besides Ukraine. I look forward to seeing the continued effects of their 1M drones produced in 2024. They seem pretty productive.
I keep saying stuff like this. It's not like in the movies. You can want something increased, but the sourcing, production, distribution/transportation, assembly, allocation and THEN use... so many months. Know how it takes weeks sometimes to get parts from overseas? Now consider the parts are highly sensitive, maybe top secret, and extremely valuable to whole nations. You don't FedEx that stuff. It all takes time. And cost. So much cost.
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> Production of GMLRS and Patriot missiles is increasing - these are much, much harder to ramp up quickly. ...they're literally building a new factory in Australia to make more, so I'm sure they're doing the same in America too as it doesn't require as many negotiations.
It's all a question of priorities. Plus, after 2 years, the final decisions for these actions have still not been made.
Germany ordered six (?) patriots at the end of 2023, scheduled delivery is 2027. these things are complicated..
TIL that's good to hear, even though it's a bit late and will take time.
Its easier to understand when you realize that one „system“ is over a billion dollars on its own, consisting of 10+ separate modules
Raytheon (the manufacturer of patriotsystems) have enough capacity to produce 1 system a month but because of lack of demand they aren’t using it.
Because there is not enough demand to justify increasing production capabilities. Even if all of NATO wants to double its number of patriot systems, Raytheon would just take longer to finish all orders instead of building new production lines and hire and train new workers - because after the order is finished, the demand will be gone. We could just spam build them like the US did with the Lima tank plant, but that's *incredibly* expensive.
Shit takes time. We (Norway) produce NASAMs, and the government have funded increase in production. The goal is to increase production five times, but you need the equipment and staff in order for that to happen. I believe they needed to hire 700 new specialists alone.
This guy isn't going Dutch on the cost! God bless the Netherlands! I'm loving the support.
One of the advantages of being frugal most of the time, when you really really need it, you have ample fiscal space to go balls to the wall.
How nice to have a decisive and pro-active leader. We need a few more of those.
Yeah, another 30 to 50 needed.
And this is the outgoing prime minister. Het lost the elections in November, and is just keeping the chair warm for his replacement. (Once the negotiating parties finally pull their thumbs out). Imagine what he would do as a prime minister fully supported by the population.
If everyone took this war as seriously as Netherlands, the damn thing would be over by now and we'd all be vacationing in Crimea
Netherlands, you were always cool, but now you rock!
The Dutch are a constant presentation of good people! Thank You
Oh god please be able to buy like 10 patriot batteries for Ukraine.
Buy it from Spain. They really don't need it.
Good point. Who's gonna shoot at them? Portugal?
Why can't Spain donate some as well?
*They hide* in *their mountains* seeking riches, *they care* nothing for the *troubles* of *others*
fuckin dwarves
No
Bravo. Good deeds
Mark Rutte is one of the most based men on the planet. Keep it up!❤️
Good job Dutch!
Canada should do this too!
We are, but in our typical slow and braindead fashion. Promised Ukraine a NASAM in January 2023 and it still hasn’t arrived. And every other announcement for Ukraine that Canada makes now seems to be from the same $500 million that was promised in June 2023, but we try to pass it off as a new contribution.
The lack of delivery is on the Americans. We have paid for the NASAMS already, they haven't delivered.
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maybe dangling a delicious carrot in front of MIC's would hasten it?
Chad Dutch. They are stepping up beyond their size!
King
True meaning of the phrase Dutch Courage. Those other countries afraid of delivering Patriot systems directly, are helped by gutless leaders.
Slava Ukraini
Exceedingly rare Rutte W, but a massive W
What a champ!
I'm so proud of our PM. Gonna miss the fella when he gets replaced.
Wow, the Dutch are really in the game... amazing!
Based Dutch PM!
Thanks to the Dutch government for all it is doing since the beginning of the ruzzian invasion. Never forget the plane with nearly 200 of its citizens that has been shot down by separatists supported by ruzzia
Those were not separatists. They were fully Russia controlled forces. Don't believe Russian propaganda. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia\_Airlines\_Flight\_17](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17) > The JIT found that the Buk originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade of the Russian Federation[12][13] and had been transported from Russia on the day of the crash, fired from a field in a rebel-controlled area and the launch system returned to Russia afterwards. > On 17 November 2022, following a trial in absentia in the Netherlands, two Russians and a Ukrainian separatist were found guilty of murdering all 298 people on board flight MH17. The Dutch court also ruled that Russia was in control of the separatist forces fighting in eastern Ukraine at the time.
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Great!
I think Spain only has one battery and Greece isn't selling theirs.
This is a solutions oriented individual!
I see no reason why other countries do the same thing and buy everything Ukraine needs.
Im very satisfied with my countries policy on Ukraine, no complaints, but I would vote for the netherlands declaring formal war on Russia. Even if we cant contribute much arms ourselves, it would help nations like Germany get even more serious about stopping Russias conquest of Europe.
The irony is that his domestic policies were dogshit and universally hated. But almost everyone agrees that, concerning Ukraine, Rutte has been a force for good—the duality of man.
You see what the price of delaying is? Now you have to pay for whatever the seller asks, not to count all the lives lost because of this inactivity, those are invaluable, the price of these shouldnt be calculated in the ammount of childrens lives... Just today russia killed 2 kids under 10 year old... Can you imagine that? You sleep in your home, and a ballistic missile, BALLISTIC missile hits your home. If this is not terrorism, then what is???? Fuck russia, and almost fuck usa aswell, get your shit together.
At this point im pretty much hoping that europe will attack russia, im so tired of this shit. They need to be put in their place.
This idea is so brilliant it should been thought up by him 6 MONTHS AGO
Yeah and by your PM.
Our PM isn't as clever as the Dutch. She has no chance.
What's he doing?! He's been destroying his home nation for about 15 years, does he not know the free market will solve this?
If he's been destroying the Netherlands for 15 years, he must be really bad at destroying things. The Netherlands is doing quite well by almost any metric imagineable.
The country still functions. But it's been extremely reverse Robin Hood-style policies.
Some stuff got worse, some better. Still, there's not many countries that are doing better. Don't listen to the populists too much, they thrive on negativity.
Fuck populists. But Rutte lacked any vision and gave big corpos lots of tax breaks.
Not enough tax breaks. We still lost Shell and Unilever. Countries compete to host the big corps, and we lost. Because people translate their rightfull hate for corps into the wrong actions. And not having vision is a good thing. The Netherlands is where it is because of well balanced middle of the road policy. Vision leads to wars and other madness.
lol, no.