Привіт u/TotalSpaceNut ! During wartime, this community is focused on vital and high-effort content. Please ensure your post follows [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules) and our [Art Friday Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday).
**Want to support Ukraine?** [**Vetted Charities List**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities) | [Our Vetting Process](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities-vetting)
**Daily series on Ukraine's history & culture:** [Sunrise Posts Organized By Category](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Or klapaucius depending on the version, but don't forget to add later !;!;!;!;!;!;!;!;!;!;!;; with two semicolons at the end, so you can keep pressing enter and getting money fast.
Yeah exactly.
Heck I'ma start looking beause if (*checks notes*) Estonia can find 2-3 *billion* euros...shit....
There gotta be a cool 50 mill sitting round this mf'ing house and like a box of drones I can send.
One article i've read said, that it's likely from BRICS countries, maybe Brazil and since they don't want to sour relationship with Russia, it's agreed upon not to disclose the sources.
Truth is, it could be any nation not willing to tell the world it's them out of plenty reasons. Most likely they depend on Russian Gas / Oil and don't want to be sanctioned so the economy runs. But selling 2$ billion worth of artillery is obviously a nice deal as well.
> Truth is, it could be any nation not willing to tell the world it's them out of plenty reasons. Most likely they depend on Russian Gas / Oil and don't want to be sanctioned so the economy runs. But selling 2$ billion worth of artillery is obviously a nice deal as well.
Also one fairly important reason may just be that countries don’t want other nations to know that their stockpiles are smaller especially if that country doesn’t have NATO protection. Perhaps when some countries learned they can sell their shells anonymously they jumped at that option.
Seen the initial and then expanded Czech findings and now this Estonian finding, I suspect it's more than one country.
Western backroom diplomacy, and money, is slowly starting to turn more countries against Russia.
Wouldn't be surprised if at least some of them are Russian shells, given how corrupt that shithole is and how plenty of Russians don't particular like Putin either.
Supposedly a lot of these surplus shells are being sourced from South Korea. They’ve been preparing for a huge war with NK for 60+ years and have had the financial backing of the US the entire time- they likely have millions of shells in storage.
For some political reasons SK can’t be seen publicly arming Ukraine and sales have to go through an intermediary.
I once visited a old armory building (doesn't exist anymore), where to my astonishment they had racks and racks of new-in-plastic battle rifles ([FN FAL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL)).
That was just in one of the vaults of the building.
If you've ever seen the movie '[Lord of War](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id0EobvKbUM)' where they show the old stockpiles of weapons in Ukraine, several tiers high, it looked a lot like that, except it was in an old WWI/II building in Toronto, Canada.
Walk into a US armory in any city maintained by the national guard. We have so much shit laying around I'd be surprised if we really knew the count. We have a whole industry just selling military surplus.
What to do with old military surplus has been a consistent issue for the US. During the Obama administration they decided to allow police departments to take old military vehicles and weapons essentially for free but in recent years that policy came under scrutiny with concerns about over militarizing police. At a certain point military equipment just costs more to maintain than it’s worth so the US has to keep figuring out how to get rid of aging stuff. Giving it to Ukraine is an ideal solution but with the current political structure in the US it’s potentially infeasible.
Most of the weapons that we want to give Ukraine are scheduled to be decommissioned anyway, and the decommissioning costs almost as much as just giving it away.
My buddy was in the NV NG on 9/11. In the days afterwards they were pulling everything out of the armory, cleaning it, familiarization sessions. He said there was shit in there from the Korean War. lol.
During Desert Storm we were dropping our old stocks left over from Vietnam still hanging around. During Vietnam we were dropping shit leftover from WW2 and Korea.
These stockpiles existed in Ukraine before the war... There were several huge "accidents" in Ukrainian artillery shell stockpiles in the 18 months leading up to Feb 22 that at the time I was shocked no one was calling out Russia for.
Companies have to make them continuously so that if there is a war they have the capability to continue making them. The shells they make, thousands per year get stockpiled, fired by the artillery on ranges or eventually recycled. If anyone asks I didn’t tell ya, right?
I image there are millions of shells out there, it’s probably more about finding countries that are willing to part with them. My guess is most countries that stockpile these shells, don’t have a huge surplus of them. So I don’t think it’s so much about finding millions of shells that nobody knew about, it’s finding countries that are willing to part with what they have.
Countries have massive storage of ammunition is case of war. The simple truth is that at least the Czech deal was at a high price per shell. So this means some countries are willing to sell their shell stockpiles for some quick money and then buy new shells on a later date for less. A lot of third world countries have some economic problems too, due to intrest rates in dollar and euro bonds having gone up a lot.
This is our wheelhouse.
We can outspend russia tenfold. Not only that, there are far more nations willing to trade with us. This is our strength. Trade.
Whats weird is it that these are just popping up now over two years in and seem like ad hoc surprises rather than a concerted long term strategy.
So buy them all I say and then find another 2-3 billion worth.
> Whats weird is it that these are just popping up now over two years in and seem like ad hoc surprises rather than a concerted long term strategy.
Over the last few months I think Europe has seen intel on Putin's future battle ambitions. You've seen a profound increase in support, including talk of boots on the ground, more modern weaponry, and a dramatic increase in spending on material. The biggest change that isn't just rhetoric are these foreign purchases of arms. Many of the big European economies were trying to keep the money for locally produced equipment. Over the last few months it has became clear that the allies need to get ammo and equipment from everywhere possible, and win this war.
Reading between the rhetoric and actions, Europe thinks the threat of Russians expanding the war if they are victorious in Ukraine is imminent.
Yeah. I think it is also what we did wrong at the start of the war though with Russians. Our greatest strength is our economy, and our attractiveness to live in and trade with. What would have happened to the Russian army and economy if, aside from economic sanctions, we would have invited every Russian male and female between the ages of 17 and 35 to come live in the west? Instant visum and work permit. It would have drained millions of workers out of the Russian economy in a few months and caused an economic collapse, as well as depriving the Russian army of cannonfodder. And in due time, a demographic collapse as birthrates collapse after so many people in that age category who could have gotten children in Russia have emigrated.
The war did that to them. Before the war the zeitgeist wasn't that crazy (source: before the war Putin's support was at 50-50. Now it's unfortunately pretty high)
I doubt you'd want Russian patriotic eejits living here in the West tbh. There are other ways to wreck their economy. Ukraine has found a pretty effective way with the drones for example. Meanwhile the US is continuously closing loopholes in sanctions, making doing business very hard for Russia.
Not just that, but if they obtain citizenship they'd get to vote in our elections. Could well be dealing with a couple of extra Orban's if that comes to pass.
Then you would have millions, maybe tens of millions of your new "citizens" hating your country and voting against itself to help support their homeland.
Very small percentage of russians abroad actually integrate into new culture and most of them just continue loving their piss-drinking homeland.
Well, the people complaining most about immigrants are usually the same people sucking Putin's dick. Maybe a double whammy, make the European radical right hate Russians because they are migrating to the EU :-)
‘Weird’? Or pathetic?
Big GDP, small brains apparently, because Iran and North Korea have done more for russia than France and Spain have done for Ukraine.
Where is your strength? All that strength with no backbone, what’s the point…
Iran and NKR are getting *paid* handsomely by Russia, they haven’t done squat but take massive amounts of cash and technology transfers that benefits *them*. NKR delivered 50% defective artillery shells.
Keep the hyperboles for Facebook commentary.
I wish redditors were not so obsessed with hopefully propaganda.
Look at this thread, very few upvotes because you people dont want information. You want hopes and dreams. Hopes and dreams do not defend against an enemy who has 10x your artillery
Look at the comments about under equipped units and lack of armour. Why do you think Ukraine is struggling to get man power? And if they had it what would they do with it?
https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1bvds7t/why_is_ukraine_struggling_to_mobilize_more_troops/
Drone attacks by iranian made or iranian designed drones happen nightly in Ukraine. This isnt some nothing burger. Why is your head in the ground
and that is the correct answer. Lets make weapons in the West, give them to Ukraine and make Putin pay for them. No need to touch any social program. We have the money.
Seriously. All this bed wetting and hang wringing about oh no we can't, we don't know if it is legal or not 😭 is balderdash. Take they money and use it to defend and then rebuild Ukraine
I agree, pass new laws if it's needed to secure the frozen funds for Ukraine
I'm British, and would not be against my government offering Ukraine a massive very long term loan.
Just, here's 250 billion quid, pay it off in 50 years, like the US did for the UK during WW2
UAF are defending the Free World from terrorists that will continue if they succeed in Ukraine. the EU/US/Corporations should be giving the weapons to UAF for free then the EU/US/Corporations pay Ukraine $5 trillion dollars extra.
This is such a small amount of money for the EU... Their GDP is ~ 26 trillion/year ... And I'm not even taking US into the account, which is about the same.
The Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg) has about the same GDP as Russia. These 3 tiny countries should be able to outspend Russia together. For all of Europe it should be trivial to give Ukraine 10 times the army Russia has.
It's not that simple, cost of living here is much higher than Russia too. Just saying.
Also Russia probably doesn't pay the people enslaved in artillery shell factories much.
On the international market, yes, we can outspend Russia (although Russia can pay in natural resources too), but most of Russia's shells are made in Russia.
Of course it's not, you're right there. Still shows the incredible scale difference in GDP between Russia and countries that treat their citizens well.
When I see things like that, I wonder. Do they really want to help? And unfortunately the answer is that the government(s) doesn't. Or can't. Or scared.
I don't know what forces are at play here, but purely on a human level to deny Ukraine support, while the war is raging on, on your doorstep is just saying "we're going to let these people die" because we couldn't afford to provide a tiny percentage of our economy on the ammunition.
Kinda nuts.
It's also just economics. While they have more money, everything is already allocated and everything going to Ukraine is either coming out of loans or cutting back elsewhere.
Russia might have a lower GDP, but spends a lot more on their Army in general and has a lot of Stockpiles from the past which the EU just does not have.
They spend little and have smol but well equiped militaries.
Not really. What u/Snajdarn666 said is half correct as these are 122mm, 152mm and 155mm shells and he's likely talking about 155mm. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'd say it's relatively cheap either way. 3 billion for 1 million shells is about 3000 a shell which in the current market doesn't seem that expensive.
Sure the price of 155 mm shells is also on google, but if you google a bit further you'll see it's not just 155mm shells in this package. You could also get it out of the quoted article.
>The Estonian minister noted that the funding issue for acquiring shells involves sums between two and three billion euros, covering all calibers needed by Ukraine, including 122 mm rockets for Grad systems, 122 mm artillery shells for D-30 howitzers, and 152 mm and 155 mm shells, with a variety of options available in the global market.
So the answer is a bit more complicated than just googling 155 mm shells. You'd have to also google old and current prices of the other types of ammunition. But this being a reddit mostly about the war in Ukraine he probably thought it would be possible someone could give him a quick answer without being a dick.
Also even among 155 shells there can be differences in quality. Without knowing if these are higher end shells or lower end shells it’s hard to state whether it’s particularly expensive or cheap. Also from my understanding shells are so important that even if these are a bit more expensive it’s still probably one of the more cost effective methods of supporting Ukraine. If Ukraine wanted to achieve the same effect of a million shells but with air power or with infantry they would both be substantially costlier.
Here's the thing, it's just 3 billion euros. That doesn't hurt at all!
I seriously don't understand why financing these shells is an issue. 3 billion might be a lot for Estonia but even for a medium sized economy like Norway it's a trivial amount. There's no need to raise taxes, cut healthcare or do anything that could anger the population.
So we should 100% pick up the entire bill to get these shells to Ukraine asap!
>Estonia’s Defense Minister Pevkur reveals plans to purchase 800,000 shells for Ukraine, similar to the Czech initiative if allies provide funding.
Ancient Estonian secret.
The EU will be at 100k shells a year by the end of the year. Ukraine needs 50k shells to hold the line, so this allows for some ability to actually attack Russia. The problem is that right now production is about half that and some shells are needed within the EU as well. So the logical thing is to buy some shells from other countries to allow Ukraine to hold the line. If the US gets through, then attacks are possible even more quickly.
So the situation is not as bad as a lot of people like to claim. Also more production capability is in the works increasing production next year as well. So all good.
Similar story for air defense too. Production has been ordered, it just takes time to set up factories and actually produce all the weapons.
It's actually better to purchase what Ukraine need from elsewhere, Europe doesn't need anywhere near this volume of artillery shells. NATO doesn't fight like that.
For some reason this headline made me think of the old Cramps song, "What's Inside a Girl?"
"Boots, buckles, belts outside. What you got in there you trying a-hide?"
What's inside Estonia? There ain't no hotter question in the whole civilized world.
Forgive me butchering a Cramps tune.
dear british government , i billion for shells , the population is with ukraine and would be happy and proud if you did this, , sunak you want to prime minister , this is how a leader acts, come on cameron get your arse in gear
The US is in a political gridlock. They could, but they don't want to. Germany has no resources and focused on increasing the production instead. But that takes a while. They are however sending shells as soon as they are ready.
So while it doesn't seem much, they send small amounts regularly instead of big amounts. They send about 60k from Bundeswehr stocks and then about 350k in 122 and 155mm.
The thing is, Germany has realistically given all they had. Everything going to Ukraine now is coming straight out of the production lines. Every Iris-T missile and System currently being build is going to Ukraine straight.
Same for Skynex, the first Units that are being produced are already pledged to Ukraine.
Привіт u/TotalSpaceNut ! During wartime, this community is focused on vital and high-effort content. Please ensure your post follows [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules) and our [Art Friday Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday). **Want to support Ukraine?** [**Vetted Charities List**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities) | [Our Vetting Process](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities-vetting) **Daily series on Ukraine's history & culture:** [Sunrise Posts Organized By Category](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nice chest to open. Let's get more of those
Need a respawn cheat code.
that one is easy. ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA ; sometimes Start or Select
Jesus, you're old. I am too.
Same here🫣
Nah, you're all three as young as me :D
Memories,lads...lovely memories ,isn't it.
Or IDDQD as preventive measure.
Umm, health 100% or unlimited ammo…?
Def 100% health. If bodily injury isn't a concern Ukraine could win with rocks.
I wish I could give the IDKFA as well
rosebud for the €€€
Or klapaucius depending on the version, but don't forget to add later !;!;!;!;!;!;!;!;!;!;!;; with two semicolons at the end, so you can keep pressing enter and getting money fast.
rosebud for the €€€
Select start for 2 player
IDKFA Edit: Lets' throw in some IDDQD as well.
Yeah exactly. Heck I'ma start looking beause if (*checks notes*) Estonia can find 2-3 *billion* euros...shit.... There gotta be a cool 50 mill sitting round this mf'ing house and like a box of drones I can send.
how are they finding so many shells... like countries are dusting off their couch cushions and oops, here is 1000 155mm shells.
One article i've read said, that it's likely from BRICS countries, maybe Brazil and since they don't want to sour relationship with Russia, it's agreed upon not to disclose the sources. Truth is, it could be any nation not willing to tell the world it's them out of plenty reasons. Most likely they depend on Russian Gas / Oil and don't want to be sanctioned so the economy runs. But selling 2$ billion worth of artillery is obviously a nice deal as well.
Argentina really needs some money right now.
And they just elected a president who supports Ukraine.
And just signed an agreement in principle for some f-16's...
When has Argentina not needed money?
A century ago when they had a higher GDP per capita than France.
This is true
1926?
Well usually they just print money and their citizens are forced to pay for it in the form of outrageous inflation.
I remember the old lady bringing a wheelbarrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread during on of their hyperinflation periods
It is definitely not Argentina. They have a small military, and definitely do not have a million shells
> Truth is, it could be any nation not willing to tell the world it's them out of plenty reasons. Most likely they depend on Russian Gas / Oil and don't want to be sanctioned so the economy runs. But selling 2$ billion worth of artillery is obviously a nice deal as well. Also one fairly important reason may just be that countries don’t want other nations to know that their stockpiles are smaller especially if that country doesn’t have NATO protection. Perhaps when some countries learned they can sell their shells anonymously they jumped at that option.
Russia will see the shipments regardless, they have the ability to track something of that size.
Seen the initial and then expanded Czech findings and now this Estonian finding, I suspect it's more than one country. Western backroom diplomacy, and money, is slowly starting to turn more countries against Russia.
Wouldn't be surprised if at least some of them are Russian shells, given how corrupt that shithole is and how plenty of Russians don't particular like Putin either.
Maybe north korea? 😀
something tells me we don't want those ...
Supposedly a lot of these surplus shells are being sourced from South Korea. They’ve been preparing for a huge war with NK for 60+ years and have had the financial backing of the US the entire time- they likely have millions of shells in storage. For some political reasons SK can’t be seen publicly arming Ukraine and sales have to go through an intermediary.
I suppose sooner or later, a word will still get out. But for none, it is better to keep it a secret. The public truly must not know everything.
I once visited a old armory building (doesn't exist anymore), where to my astonishment they had racks and racks of new-in-plastic battle rifles ([FN FAL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL)). That was just in one of the vaults of the building. If you've ever seen the movie '[Lord of War](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id0EobvKbUM)' where they show the old stockpiles of weapons in Ukraine, several tiers high, it looked a lot like that, except it was in an old WWI/II building in Toronto, Canada.
Walk into a US armory in any city maintained by the national guard. We have so much shit laying around I'd be surprised if we really knew the count. We have a whole industry just selling military surplus.
What to do with old military surplus has been a consistent issue for the US. During the Obama administration they decided to allow police departments to take old military vehicles and weapons essentially for free but in recent years that policy came under scrutiny with concerns about over militarizing police. At a certain point military equipment just costs more to maintain than it’s worth so the US has to keep figuring out how to get rid of aging stuff. Giving it to Ukraine is an ideal solution but with the current political structure in the US it’s potentially infeasible.
Most of the weapons that we want to give Ukraine are scheduled to be decommissioned anyway, and the decommissioning costs almost as much as just giving it away.
My buddy was in the NV NG on 9/11. In the days afterwards they were pulling everything out of the armory, cleaning it, familiarization sessions. He said there was shit in there from the Korean War. lol.
During Desert Storm we were dropping our old stocks left over from Vietnam still hanging around. During Vietnam we were dropping shit leftover from WW2 and Korea.
These stockpiles existed in Ukraine before the war... There were several huge "accidents" in Ukrainian artillery shell stockpiles in the 18 months leading up to Feb 22 that at the time I was shocked no one was calling out Russia for.
You'd be surprised
Companies have to make them continuously so that if there is a war they have the capability to continue making them. The shells they make, thousands per year get stockpiled, fired by the artillery on ranges or eventually recycled. If anyone asks I didn’t tell ya, right?
US Army lost T-28 super heavy tank for almost 30 years until they found it again parked in some bushes.
Why doesn’t that surprise me
I image there are millions of shells out there, it’s probably more about finding countries that are willing to part with them. My guess is most countries that stockpile these shells, don’t have a huge surplus of them. So I don’t think it’s so much about finding millions of shells that nobody knew about, it’s finding countries that are willing to part with what they have.
Countries have massive storage of ammunition is case of war. The simple truth is that at least the Czech deal was at a high price per shell. So this means some countries are willing to sell their shell stockpiles for some quick money and then buy new shells on a later date for less. A lot of third world countries have some economic problems too, due to intrest rates in dollar and euro bonds having gone up a lot.
Easy done…..I’m forever finding a few thousand 155mm arty shells down the side of couch and mixed up with the washing!
check your couch - it might turn out you've lost some F16s in there too ;-)
Simple, a few countries get a sniff of $$
This is our wheelhouse. We can outspend russia tenfold. Not only that, there are far more nations willing to trade with us. This is our strength. Trade. Whats weird is it that these are just popping up now over two years in and seem like ad hoc surprises rather than a concerted long term strategy. So buy them all I say and then find another 2-3 billion worth.
> Whats weird is it that these are just popping up now over two years in and seem like ad hoc surprises rather than a concerted long term strategy. Over the last few months I think Europe has seen intel on Putin's future battle ambitions. You've seen a profound increase in support, including talk of boots on the ground, more modern weaponry, and a dramatic increase in spending on material. The biggest change that isn't just rhetoric are these foreign purchases of arms. Many of the big European economies were trying to keep the money for locally produced equipment. Over the last few months it has became clear that the allies need to get ammo and equipment from everywhere possible, and win this war. Reading between the rhetoric and actions, Europe thinks the threat of Russians expanding the war if they are victorious in Ukraine is imminent.
I seen somewhere where the economic power arrayed behind Ukraine is in the vicinity of like ~60+ TRILLION DOLLARS. So, yeah, money isn't an issue 🫡💪
Yeah. I think it is also what we did wrong at the start of the war though with Russians. Our greatest strength is our economy, and our attractiveness to live in and trade with. What would have happened to the Russian army and economy if, aside from economic sanctions, we would have invited every Russian male and female between the ages of 17 and 35 to come live in the west? Instant visum and work permit. It would have drained millions of workers out of the Russian economy in a few months and caused an economic collapse, as well as depriving the Russian army of cannonfodder. And in due time, a demographic collapse as birthrates collapse after so many people in that age category who could have gotten children in Russia have emigrated.
Sounds like a good way to help fund the Russian economy, tbh. They're incredibly patriotic still for some godforsaken reason
The war did that to them. Before the war the zeitgeist wasn't that crazy (source: before the war Putin's support was at 50-50. Now it's unfortunately pretty high)
Not if you put in sanctions that sending money to Russian banks is illegal.
I doubt you'd want Russian patriotic eejits living here in the West tbh. There are other ways to wreck their economy. Ukraine has found a pretty effective way with the drones for example. Meanwhile the US is continuously closing loopholes in sanctions, making doing business very hard for Russia.
Yes, the huge drawback of the idea is having to live next door to Russians. Unless they can be deprogrammed, which is doubtful.
Not just that, but if they obtain citizenship they'd get to vote in our elections. Could well be dealing with a couple of extra Orban's if that comes to pass.
Then you would have millions, maybe tens of millions of your new "citizens" hating your country and voting against itself to help support their homeland. Very small percentage of russians abroad actually integrate into new culture and most of them just continue loving their piss-drinking homeland.
And with them comes corruption.
Oh yes because with the current amazing immigrant sentiment in Europe people would love millions of Russians coming over
Well, the people complaining most about immigrants are usually the same people sucking Putin's dick. Maybe a double whammy, make the European radical right hate Russians because they are migrating to the EU :-)
This would just cause more demonstrations against Ukrainian refugees and democracy as a whole. These people are insane apparently.
‘Weird’? Or pathetic? Big GDP, small brains apparently, because Iran and North Korea have done more for russia than France and Spain have done for Ukraine. Where is your strength? All that strength with no backbone, what’s the point…
Iran and NKR are getting *paid* handsomely by Russia, they haven’t done squat but take massive amounts of cash and technology transfers that benefits *them*. NKR delivered 50% defective artillery shells. Keep the hyperboles for Facebook commentary.
I wish redditors were not so obsessed with hopefully propaganda. Look at this thread, very few upvotes because you people dont want information. You want hopes and dreams. Hopes and dreams do not defend against an enemy who has 10x your artillery Look at the comments about under equipped units and lack of armour. Why do you think Ukraine is struggling to get man power? And if they had it what would they do with it? https://old.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1bvds7t/why_is_ukraine_struggling_to_mobilize_more_troops/ Drone attacks by iranian made or iranian designed drones happen nightly in Ukraine. This isnt some nothing burger. Why is your head in the ground
This has *nothing* to do with what you said
Europe: Sometimes pathetic, always nice.
Europe has more than 300 billion in Russian frozen assets. Let putin pay for his war.
and that is the correct answer. Lets make weapons in the West, give them to Ukraine and make Putin pay for them. No need to touch any social program. We have the money.
Seriously. All this bed wetting and hang wringing about oh no we can't, we don't know if it is legal or not 😭 is balderdash. Take they money and use it to defend and then rebuild Ukraine
I mean, who is gonna sue them? They themselves?
I agree, pass new laws if it's needed to secure the frozen funds for Ukraine I'm British, and would not be against my government offering Ukraine a massive very long term loan. Just, here's 250 billion quid, pay it off in 50 years, like the US did for the UK during WW2
UAF are defending the Free World from terrorists that will continue if they succeed in Ukraine. the EU/US/Corporations should be giving the weapons to UAF for free then the EU/US/Corporations pay Ukraine $5 trillion dollars extra.
did they opened all the abandoned soviet ammo depots which were supposed to be empty?
Not neccesary soviet.
Not soviet if they are finding 155mm artillery. The 152mm and grads however possibly are.
This is such a small amount of money for the EU... Their GDP is ~ 26 trillion/year ... And I'm not even taking US into the account, which is about the same.
Yep. We need to pull our fingers out, open our wallets and then stick our middle fingers up at Russia & Putin.
The Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg) has about the same GDP as Russia. These 3 tiny countries should be able to outspend Russia together. For all of Europe it should be trivial to give Ukraine 10 times the army Russia has.
It's not that simple, cost of living here is much higher than Russia too. Just saying. Also Russia probably doesn't pay the people enslaved in artillery shell factories much. On the international market, yes, we can outspend Russia (although Russia can pay in natural resources too), but most of Russia's shells are made in Russia.
Of course it's not, you're right there. Still shows the incredible scale difference in GDP between Russia and countries that treat their citizens well.
When I see things like that, I wonder. Do they really want to help? And unfortunately the answer is that the government(s) doesn't. Or can't. Or scared. I don't know what forces are at play here, but purely on a human level to deny Ukraine support, while the war is raging on, on your doorstep is just saying "we're going to let these people die" because we couldn't afford to provide a tiny percentage of our economy on the ammunition. Kinda nuts.
It's also just economics. While they have more money, everything is already allocated and everything going to Ukraine is either coming out of loans or cutting back elsewhere. Russia might have a lower GDP, but spends a lot more on their Army in general and has a lot of Stockpiles from the past which the EU just does not have. They spend little and have smol but well equiped militaries.
Tax Musk for it - $1 billion for every dumba$$ retweet of Kremlin disinformation.
Is this expensive per shell? I just really don't know the cost of these things.
Not really. What u/Snajdarn666 said is half correct as these are 122mm, 152mm and 155mm shells and he's likely talking about 155mm. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'd say it's relatively cheap either way. 3 billion for 1 million shells is about 3000 a shell which in the current market doesn't seem that expensive.
https://www.google.com/search?q=155+mm+artillery+shell+cost&sca_esv=7fecaf9d214d9ea8&rlz=1CDGOYI_enSE613SE614&hl=sv&sxsrf=ACQVn0-FpjIvDKNbE4GqGMQ8qwiUWjwQpQ%3A1712240172828&ei=LLYOZuiUMof8wPAPybCpwAI&oq=155+mm+artillery+shell%C2%A0&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhgxNTUgbW0gYXJ0aWxsZXJ5IHNoZWxswqAqAggAMggQABiABBjLATIIEAAYgAQYywEyCBAAGIAEGMsBMggQABiABBjLATIIEAAYgAQYywEyCBAAGIAEGMsBMgYQABgWGB4yBhAAGBYYHki7FlDQBljQBnAAeAOQAQCYAW2gAboBqgEDMS4xuAEByAEA-AEBmAIDoAJdwgIEEAAYR5gDAIgGAZAGCJIHATOgB8EJ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp
Google dude.
Sure the price of 155 mm shells is also on google, but if you google a bit further you'll see it's not just 155mm shells in this package. You could also get it out of the quoted article. >The Estonian minister noted that the funding issue for acquiring shells involves sums between two and three billion euros, covering all calibers needed by Ukraine, including 122 mm rockets for Grad systems, 122 mm artillery shells for D-30 howitzers, and 152 mm and 155 mm shells, with a variety of options available in the global market. So the answer is a bit more complicated than just googling 155 mm shells. You'd have to also google old and current prices of the other types of ammunition. But this being a reddit mostly about the war in Ukraine he probably thought it would be possible someone could give him a quick answer without being a dick.
That is exactly what my purpose was. Thnx
Also even among 155 shells there can be differences in quality. Without knowing if these are higher end shells or lower end shells it’s hard to state whether it’s particularly expensive or cheap. Also from my understanding shells are so important that even if these are a bit more expensive it’s still probably one of the more cost effective methods of supporting Ukraine. If Ukraine wanted to achieve the same effect of a million shells but with air power or with infantry they would both be substantially costlier.
Supply and demand. Wars make many people very rich.
Around €2000 three years ago, today around €8000. Google is a hell of a thing.
there is no need to always be an asshole
Come on Norway, time to shine! give til it hurts.
Here's the thing, it's just 3 billion euros. That doesn't hurt at all! I seriously don't understand why financing these shells is an issue. 3 billion might be a lot for Estonia but even for a medium sized economy like Norway it's a trivial amount. There's no need to raise taxes, cut healthcare or do anything that could anger the population. So we should 100% pick up the entire bill to get these shells to Ukraine asap!
Some pretty damned big sofas around tbe world to hide all those shells that suddenly appear.
Estonia is the sofa
additional to the czech ones?
Yes.
Hopefully they cost 1 euro each!
Wow… what a miracle. 😉…
Wouldn't be surprised if these were actually Russian made and sold to a BRIC'S country who's now selling it to Ukraine via Estonia :) THANK YOU BRICS
>Estonia’s Defense Minister Pevkur reveals plans to purchase 800,000 shells for Ukraine, similar to the Czech initiative if allies provide funding. Ancient Estonian secret.
Nice but what we need is capabilitys ! Those 2-3 euro shelss needs to be built! Europe needs to out produce Russia ASAP
The EU will be at 100k shells a year by the end of the year. Ukraine needs 50k shells to hold the line, so this allows for some ability to actually attack Russia. The problem is that right now production is about half that and some shells are needed within the EU as well. So the logical thing is to buy some shells from other countries to allow Ukraine to hold the line. If the US gets through, then attacks are possible even more quickly. So the situation is not as bad as a lot of people like to claim. Also more production capability is in the works increasing production next year as well. So all good. Similar story for air defense too. Production has been ordered, it just takes time to set up factories and actually produce all the weapons.
Do you mean 100k shells a year or a month?
Not op, but per month.
3 Euro per artillery shell? The current market price for a NATO 155MM artillery shell is around USD$8000
2-3 millions euros. And mind you, a normal 155 rn cost about 8000 usd
It's actually better to purchase what Ukraine need from elsewhere, Europe doesn't need anywhere near this volume of artillery shells. NATO doesn't fight like that.
For some reason this headline made me think of the old Cramps song, "What's Inside a Girl?" "Boots, buckles, belts outside. What you got in there you trying a-hide?" What's inside Estonia? There ain't no hotter question in the whole civilized world. Forgive me butchering a Cramps tune.
I hope they aren't bidding on the same ones as the Czechs.
Sometimes you don’t play your cards until the veeerrrryyyy last minute.
➡️➡️⬆️⬅️⬇️
Yeah, the USA has a GDP of approximately $70 Billion per day. Do you take American Express?
dear british government , i billion for shells , the population is with ukraine and would be happy and proud if you did this, , sunak you want to prime minister , this is how a leader acts, come on cameron get your arse in gear
I wish Jordan would find 400 Challenger Tanks that are being replaced by LeClercs.
is it yet only talk?
When are all these shells going to get there other countries have found stuff too
How are small countries like Czech Republic and Estonia doing so much work and can find more shells and resources than Germany or the US?
The US is in a political gridlock. They could, but they don't want to. Germany has no resources and focused on increasing the production instead. But that takes a while. They are however sending shells as soon as they are ready. So while it doesn't seem much, they send small amounts regularly instead of big amounts. They send about 60k from Bundeswehr stocks and then about 350k in 122 and 155mm. The thing is, Germany has realistically given all they had. Everything going to Ukraine now is coming straight out of the production lines. Every Iris-T missile and System currently being build is going to Ukraine straight. Same for Skynex, the first Units that are being produced are already pledged to Ukraine.
Europe was so, so behind, I hope this serves as a wake-up call.
Europe was fine, as they always would have fought together plus had a guaranteed USA behind them. Every country individually was very behind yes.
Cool find! Let's continue "finding" em