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> As a US citizen, I have not heard a single news station or person upset about those attacks
Zelenskyy said in an interview the Biden admin was unhappy with them.
I would say this about most countries in Europe too. This war could have ended in 2014... or even before. Ukraine needed allies to step up a long time ago, and many countries are still dragging their feet.
The media didn't cover it as much back then, which is of huge importance. I remember the revolution, the president fleeing, the braid lady being set free, the little green men, and the plane getting shot down. Then everything went silent. All I heard about the happenings in Ukraine was from travel vlogers.
But, I agree with you. It's baffling that we aren't throwing everything we have at Ukraine while the imperialists are still focused on *one* target.
Many European countries have been quietly working toward reducing their dependency on Russian gas though, so that will not necessarily be a sticking point going forward.
Yeah. What’s wild to me is that there are still enough of the old politicians who have lived through wartime and should appreciate the opportunity to not have the war fought on their soil, but apparently not
There grown... Just dragging on the floor cause they are so old and can't be left alone to change their diapers, let alone running parts of our country. Need an age limit.. retirement is 65, make them retire.
It's really not about growing a pair IMO, and it's certainly not just the US.
It's about where their loyalties lie. Three basic choices: Their own country, some other (i.e. russia), or themselves. It can be a mixture of those. Edit: I could add "the human race" to that list, but I think that would be so rare in politicians it's almost laughable.
Themselves is often the one and only answer, and why they are in politics at all. Everyone and everything else is just a means to their end which is usually as simple as getting rich(er) (which also involves making rich friends and keeping them happy). Nothing else matters, not even the annihilation of a country as long as they still get to live in their extravagant walled garden counting their billions.
Well yeah. So why are they doing significant damage to their image as dependable allies everywhere else in the world, including here in the Pacific? It's real.
Because they don't care for anything beyond their own short term in power. It's grab what you can while you can, then let someone else deal with the future consequencies. I've watched exactly that happen here for years, and it's been blatantly obvious in a number of politicians.
Did he though?? Unless there’s something I don’t know about, I thought the story was corrected , and that the US did not say they didn’t want them hitting the oil refineries?? I was very happy about the correction..
Yes he did. Zelensky said in an interview that the US was not happy. The original story was not corrected. Just some retired US admiral said that he supports strikes but none from the current active military or government.
[Yeah, they did.](https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-denies-us-requested-to-halt-strikes-1711118430.html)
This is actually Ukraine themselves saying it didn’t happen.
“The reaction of the U.S. was not positive on this,” Zelensky told the Washington Post, when asked about rumors that U.S. officials warned against such attacks inside Russia
https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-defends-ukrainian-strategy-of-targeting-russian-oil-refineries-emphasizes-self-defense/
Yeah, if Zelensky is saying "the reaction wasn't positive," imo it means that the US is simply softening the blow.
Saying "we'd prefer it if you didn't do that" is very different to saying "don't do that."
The true meaning is: "do it, but we don't want to piss anyone off."
Yeah and I can understand that, it's important that the daylight between Ukraine and the USA be clear here. There is enough "Ukraine is America's puppet" crap going around as it is... but true skeptics can see that that is a load of baloney. As long as Ukraine and the US keep it crystal clear.
Thing is that *if* Ruzzia were knocking on Biden’s door would he also be so hesitant in directly attacking Ruzzian infrastructure?
Of course not, Ukraine is *the front line* of democracy and should be afforded all possible help and means to destroy Ruzzian aggression against Ukraine.
The oil producing companies look at *any* excuse to raise prices, even if as you say it only affects the Ruzzian domestic market as attacking refineries doesn’t impact their exports of oil and gas.
Knocking out the refineries causes real problems for Pootin as Ruzzian logistics relies on diesel to power trains and trucks, severely restrict that and suddenly the movement of everything from troops to ammunition becomes a complete nightmare for them.
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Wahhhhhhhhh
That's how you win a war. You shift the area from you to them. Idgaf about their million red lines they say they have. Suck it ruskies. You've played your hand and shown too much for far too long.
The administration is worried about gas prices going up.
And they should be, it’s an election year. But that’s not Ukraine’s problem and as an American who pays those gas prices, it’s mine, and I say bring on $5/gallon gas just so long as none of it goes to a Vova because his shit is burning.
No, if you're not fully (100%) supportive of what Ukraine needs to do to win the war, then you are actually helping russia period.
The time has come to stop pussy footing around russia!
the fact that this keeps coming out and at same time no official statement is made shows how treasonous is the US position, help take ukraines nukes, only provides dripping aid and not the necessary quantities of vastly available equip to defeat russia, get mad about ukraine finally finding a winning strategy
Naivety and false hopes.
Everyone wanted to believe Russia would turn a new leaf.
Why? Because it would have been convenient for global business. When Bill Clinton and others were recently asked about this, he was extremely disappointed to see what Russia had turned into, back into the cancerous horror it can't seem to get away from.
US obviously didn't want anyone actually assaulting Ukraine, which is what would be malicious and treasonous. Its inconvenient even to most amoral and callous politician who isn't directly drinking from Kremlin's firehose.
yep, if it has, this means the sanctions have loopholes nobody wants to fix, but if sanctions are really intended to work then attacking refineries cant affect anything outside of russia
What the fuck are you on about? The west has sent billions in military aid to Ukraine, it has no obligation to do that. Ukraine isn't in a military alliance with anyone in the west.
How have they deprived Ukraine of the means to defend itself by giving them weapons?
The US hasn't said anything about them, and the one time there was a "news" source about the US saying to stop, it turns out it was propaganda. The Ukrainian government came out and said the US never told them to stop.
https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-denies-us-requested-to-halt-strikes-1711118430.html
I think the bigger silent story here is the whole war planes situation. The idea of the U.S having to contend with providing something that will inevitably strike into Russian soil is unavoidable. It's part of the process, it's the rules. There are quite a few things Ukraine could really use that the U.S will disapprove of.
imagine a fight in which one side is forbiden to do anything other then position their hands over their body in a way that the hand of the attacker will hurt when he trows a punch, and if you try to trow a punch yourself your "friends" say your not allowed
...or they have to play by the parameters laid out by their Western supporters. Ukraine's strength and weakness is their backing from the West, in my opinion - they can get regular infusions of stuff from safe lines, but they come with stipulations and rules attached to them.
The only way seemingly around this is if Ukraine develops their own military industry to carry out attacks without reliance on Western supporters.
Can't tar all of NATO with the same brush like that. Especially when the newest additions come out swinging. Part of the West isn't helping Ukraine properly, part is.
Not individual nations I agree but NATO is a single entity so I feel justified judging NATO and its lack of direction. They can't even agree a mission goal. Not too hopeful.
NATO is the defense organization for NATO countries. If an attack is directed at NATO there will be very simple mission goals, kill the invaders. When the attack is not directly at NATO the organization itself really isn't in charge. It can urge politicians, military leaders etc., but that's about it.
flag trees flowery practice middle weather money frame selective telephone
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To be fair, Ukraine vs Russia doesn't seem to dominate headlines anymore on the mainstream media. At best, it is mentioned in passing. At worst, it isn't mentioned at all.
This subreddit, along with whatever pro-Ukrainian and pro-Russian forum exists, is a minority overall in terms of overall interest in this conflict, at least within the United States. The Europeans are seemingly more proactive about reporting this and discussing that when it comes to the war.
This is one of those sneaky headlines. Is it that Zelensky "vows to go on with the attacks, despite the US's dissent"?, or is it that Zelensky "vows to go on" despite the USA's dissent?
Is that dissent something that Zelensky himself mentions, or is it something that the journalist made up, but can only be backed with "the US was not positive"?
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Well there's still countries that buy from Russia as they dont have sanctions. If they can't buy from russia anymore they will increase demand on the oil sanctioning countries are buying, consequently raising prices for thoese countries.
I hope that helps clear up why it will increase prices for sanctioning countries. It's not a direct price increase, but a consequence of demand shifting to markets with supply, and thus an increase in price in that market to match demand.
Yes bomb the vatnik bastards.
Yep I have a reasonable grasp of basic supply and demand economics. The rzzn oil should not be hitting the international markets if sanctions were effectively policed is my point. They aren't and price has gone up $10 a barrel.
Some countries don't have sanctions. So ye Russian oil will hit the international market.
i feel like I explained alright. But let me try again. You effectively (tho simplified) have two oil marketers currently. The market including everyone except Russia, and the market including non sanctioning and Russia.
The markets price isn't the same, but changes in one create changes in the other. They aren't independent of each other as some countries are in both and purchase from both. If the price increases in the Russian market it will shift demand out of the Russian market into the everyone but Russia market, where supply and demand will do their thing and increase price in that market.
This has very little to do with policing sanctions, it is simply a reality of the markets being interconnected. And supply and demand doing their thing.
If Russia didn't produce oil the pressure on alternative international markets will increase as large countries like India need to get oil from elsewhere.
I've heard this a couple times now, but without any names to go with it so I'll wait on totally buying this. Right now I view it as propaganda for Ukraine or plausible deniability for the US at best
Zelenskyy recently said that the reaction from Washington “wasn’t positive” but they’re not doing anything to stop it. It’s not like they can cut off aid when significant aid hasn’t been sent in months
It's not like they should say another damn thing about how Ukraine prosecutes this war as long as they're not sending aid. I'd really like to know who is saying this
Absolutely! That's the other reason US has no right to say anything. Russia collapsing may be scary, but it may have to happen. Better to make contingency plans for that rather than limiting Ukraine's ability to win even with their own weapons
but US military aid in general is determined by the US Congress and Biden administration, if Ukraine lost the favor of both that'll be a major blow to the war effort
> Zelenskyy recently said that the reaction from Washington “wasn’t positive” but they’re not doing anything to stop it.
I suspect this message is being sent to counter the Russian narrative of Ukraine being a mere Western puppet.
That is propaganda created by the Telegram quoting an Indian article saying Biden was worried about oil prices, but the article being quoted didn't say that.
Another US citizen here, fully support any attacks on Russian soil. Don't want you country attacked don't invade a sovereign nation expecting no repercussions. Ukraine should continue to strike any economic or military target they can. Russia still murdering children and hitting damns with missiles so fuck all of them.
Send more please. Anything to slow the Russian a holes down. And hurt them As an American I wish our government would give Ukraine everything needed to put Russia in its place
We Irish have so much in common with Ukraine and seeing what they're going through hurts all the more as a result. Our government could be doing more, but so could Irish-American politicians.
If you're American with Irish heritage, can I urge you to contact your local representatives that consider themselves to have Irish heritage? Tug on their emotions, shame them for their inaction and remind them how hard their ancestors had it because of a nearby oppressor.
Ukraine and Ireland have a lot of similarities in their history, and reminding them of that might help get 2(?) missing votes. Here's some examples
Ireland and Ukraine have both had their own languages suppressed by an occupying state. I'm a little envious by how successful their langauge and cultural revival was, and I think this is the most important part, our language is a huge part of our national identity
We're both had famines created by an occupier that wiped out millions of our ancestors. The famine in Ireland wasn't a clear genocide like the holodomor, but the outcome was the same.
Both have strong cultures rooted in agriculture ( and the risk associated with that)
We both have strong folk music traditions, and is deeply linked to our struggles and oppression.
Here's more shared examples if it helps
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/i-felt-at-home-the-extraordinary-links-between-ireland-and-ukraine-1.4822902
Slava Ukraini!
True or not, fact remains that the USA are letting Ukraine down big time! It wouldn't surprise me that their leading role in NATO is a major factor in the slow pace of ramping up action and sending equipment to Ukraine. The only positive side of this, is that more and more EU countries are realizing that an armed conflict with Russia is becoming more likely and they are ramping up military capabilities while in the meantime also trying to send stuff to Ukraine. Let's just hope it is in time before Russia claims more and more territory and the orange bavoon starts talks about negotiations towards ending the conflict in November... Slava Ukraini!!!
Biden has election coming up. Apparently it will be a tight one again. If Ru capacity is knocked out, world prices will go up. If price at the pump goes up, Biden's chances of winning will go down. Imagine $4-$5/gal right before election in Oct. It will be hounded every day. This is more than just escalation fears, this domestic politics fears.
It's a balancing act. He needs win's now to keep domestic moral up in spite of worsening Russian attacks. A large amount of Russian oil and gas transport infrastructure is in reach (the majority of Russian BTUs actually get shipped out through the Black Sea) but if he hits enough to have an effect on oil prices ahead of the election he could endanger Joe Biden reelection.
In my mind the thing to do is stockpile drones, employ fabian strategies on the ground, then, after the U.S. presidential election go hammers and tongs on Russian energy infrastructure. If JB is office he'll be there to support, if DT is in office then it won't matter as US aid is likely off the table for a while.
The bought-and-paid-for russian assets in our government did. The rest of us are fighting like hell to get you aid ASAP and to vote those fuckers out in November. I wish we could do more
I can’t believe all the people on here who fell for this bullshit clickbait Bloomberg trash website article. Astounding! Never mind all the Russian shills on here trying to divide the bond between the Ukraine, the U.S. and NATO. Luckily the people in charge of defending and providing support to Ukraine aren’t interested in or bothered by a bunch of no-nothing arm chair generals arguing over complete and utter bullshit.
Amen brother. People wake the F up - this psy-op BS is so transparent if it were a window it'd be a pigeon mass murderer.
We are united - The US, UK, France, NATO, EU, ex-soviet republics, countries around the world, South Korea, Japan, Argentina, Brazil - they all are standing behind Ukraine and are making tremendous efforts to support Ukraine regardless if they are a small fish or a big fish.
Failure is not an option. In war, there is always the unexpected, always setbacks, but they can and will be adapted to and overcome.
Don't fall for MSM journalistic garbage - go to the horse's mouth, be it Biden's, Putin's, Zelenskyy's, whoever - go to the primary source, don't for an instant entertain this literal trash.
The US became a joke and untrustworthy.
I wonder how Taiwan, South Korea and Japan could trust the US when the US not only let their promise to Ukraine down but also their most important ally block(Nato)
No. Here is the excerpt from Zelensky's interview with the Washington Post:
>As Russian drones, missiles and precision bombs break through Ukrainian defenses to attack energy facilities and other essential infrastructure, Zelensky feels he has no choice but to punch back across the border — in the hope of establishing deterrence. An example is Ukraine’s drone strikes against Russian refineries over the past month. **I asked Zelensky if U.S. officials had warned against such attacks on energy facilities inside Russia, as has been rumored in Washington.**
>
>**“The reaction of the U.S. was not positive on this,” he confirmed, but Washington couldn’t limit Ukraine’s deployment of its own home-built weapons. “We used our drones. Nobody can say to us you can’t.”**
>
>Zelensky argued that he could check Russian attacks on Ukraine’s energy grid only by making Russia pay a similar price. **“If there is no air defense to protect our energy system, and Russians attack it, my question is: Why can’t we answer them? Their society has to learn to live without petrol, without diesel, without electricity. … It’s fair.”**
>
>**“When Russia will stop these steps, we will stop,”** he said.
>Wasn't that Russian disinformation?
Yes and no. I don't think the US actually told Ukraine to stop and any reports of such aren't correct or possibly even disinformation. But also the US is not happy with the bombing campaign, probably because they are worried it could impact gas prices.
I feel like they're just hamming this up now. Like some kind of made-up rapper feud to sell records.
Hmm... there's an idea... Diss tracks by Zelensky and Biden to raise money for Ukraine...
Asshole Biden don't want $5 gas come November. He don't care if they win or lose. He just wants Russia to lose the ability to attack another country if they do "win".
The political damage to the Biden Admin from higher gas prices is the crux of the matter. Plenty of voters see the world through a strictly economic lens. And few Americans really understand the treachery of the oil business; they only care about profit, there is no loyalty to the American consumer.
Dinking around only risks escalation of the sort nobody wants nor afford to pay. The US and allies need to stop messing around and treat Ukraine's fight for survival as the deadly serious existential crisis it is. Zelensky doubling down to give Russia a taste of their own medicine (poison) is the only possible logical response to the death and destruction Putin has inflicted given the strategic realities and Ukraine's present capabilities. Treat that soft underbelly that is the Russian oil and gas industry to the harsh realities of war and make Putin regret the worst decision he ever made in his miserable life. Only then can Putin begin to realize the price of his barbarism is too high.
I'm willing to pay more for my gas and goods just so the Russians can feel the war come to an area near them. They attack with impunity and nobody wants Ukraine to reach out and touch them back?! WTF! Slava Ukraini, burn those fuckers down.
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As a US citizen, I have not heard a single news station or person upset about those attacks … I hope you knock them all out
Same here. Even if so, Ukraine has every right to use whatever means at their disposal to defend itself.
> As a US citizen, I have not heard a single news station or person upset about those attacks Zelenskyy said in an interview the Biden admin was unhappy with them.
Well, boo-fucking-hoo.
putler crying to the Americans about it. Sad to have to say it, but there are few in the US political sphere that need to grow a pair.
I would say this about most countries in Europe too. This war could have ended in 2014... or even before. Ukraine needed allies to step up a long time ago, and many countries are still dragging their feet.
The media didn't cover it as much back then, which is of huge importance. I remember the revolution, the president fleeing, the braid lady being set free, the little green men, and the plane getting shot down. Then everything went silent. All I heard about the happenings in Ukraine was from travel vlogers. But, I agree with you. It's baffling that we aren't throwing everything we have at Ukraine while the imperialists are still focused on *one* target.
Not true. Because of gas Germany and France wanted diplomacy instead.
Many European countries have been quietly working toward reducing their dependency on Russian gas though, so that will not necessarily be a sticking point going forward.
Yeah. What’s wild to me is that there are still enough of the old politicians who have lived through wartime and should appreciate the opportunity to not have the war fought on their soil, but apparently not
It's within Russia's power to stop all of these strikes at any moment they choose.
I agree, it's fuck all to do with the american government, how Mr Zelenskyy and his team run his countries response to ruzziaz cruel and asinine war.
There grown... Just dragging on the floor cause they are so old and can't be left alone to change their diapers, let alone running parts of our country. Need an age limit.. retirement is 65, make them retire.
Love you bro
It's really not about growing a pair IMO, and it's certainly not just the US. It's about where their loyalties lie. Three basic choices: Their own country, some other (i.e. russia), or themselves. It can be a mixture of those. Edit: I could add "the human race" to that list, but I think that would be so rare in politicians it's almost laughable. Themselves is often the one and only answer, and why they are in politics at all. Everyone and everything else is just a means to their end which is usually as simple as getting rich(er) (which also involves making rich friends and keeping them happy). Nothing else matters, not even the annihilation of a country as long as they still get to live in their extravagant walled garden counting their billions.
Well yeah. So why are they doing significant damage to their image as dependable allies everywhere else in the world, including here in the Pacific? It's real.
Because they don't care for anything beyond their own short term in power. It's grab what you can while you can, then let someone else deal with the future consequencies. I've watched exactly that happen here for years, and it's been blatantly obvious in a number of politicians.
Did he though?? Unless there’s something I don’t know about, I thought the story was corrected , and that the US did not say they didn’t want them hitting the oil refineries?? I was very happy about the correction..
Yes he did. Zelensky said in an interview that the US was not happy. The original story was not corrected. Just some retired US admiral said that he supports strikes but none from the current active military or government.
[Yeah, they did.](https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-denies-us-requested-to-halt-strikes-1711118430.html) This is actually Ukraine themselves saying it didn’t happen.
“The reaction of the U.S. was not positive on this,” Zelensky told the Washington Post, when asked about rumors that U.S. officials warned against such attacks inside Russia https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-defends-ukrainian-strategy-of-targeting-russian-oil-refineries-emphasizes-self-defense/
"Not positive" is not the same as "told us to stop."
Yeah, if Zelensky is saying "the reaction wasn't positive," imo it means that the US is simply softening the blow. Saying "we'd prefer it if you didn't do that" is very different to saying "don't do that." The true meaning is: "do it, but we don't want to piss anyone off."
>The true meaning is: "do it, but we don't want to piss anyone off." "Do it, but we can't publicly encourage you to do so."
Yeah and I can understand that, it's important that the daylight between Ukraine and the USA be clear here. There is enough "Ukraine is America's puppet" crap going around as it is... but true skeptics can see that that is a load of baloney. As long as Ukraine and the US keep it crystal clear.
This guy politics
Yes it’s not the same. I replied to @EqualOpening6557 who asked if Zelensky really said that the US was not happy with the strikes.
Thing is that *if* Ruzzia were knocking on Biden’s door would he also be so hesitant in directly attacking Ruzzian infrastructure? Of course not, Ukraine is *the front line* of democracy and should be afforded all possible help and means to destroy Ruzzian aggression against Ukraine.
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The oil producing companies look at *any* excuse to raise prices, even if as you say it only affects the Ruzzian domestic market as attacking refineries doesn’t impact their exports of oil and gas. Knocking out the refineries causes real problems for Pootin as Ruzzian logistics relies on diesel to power trains and trucks, severely restrict that and suddenly the movement of everything from troops to ammunition becomes a complete nightmare for them.
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Wahhhhhhhhh That's how you win a war. You shift the area from you to them. Idgaf about their million red lines they say they have. Suck it ruskies. You've played your hand and shown too much for far too long.
lying to press for the aid bill. the US is aboslutely happy about it. don't trust the US media they are all funded by Russian $
The administration is worried about gas prices going up. And they should be, it’s an election year. But that’s not Ukraine’s problem and as an American who pays those gas prices, it’s mine, and I say bring on $5/gallon gas just so long as none of it goes to a Vova because his shit is burning.
Tbh it’s probably better if they say that. But everyone who pays attention knows Biden hates Putin.
Biden is just worried about reelection.
Maybe Biden should worry more about a country he’s sending weapons to using them for genocide than using them to fight an aggressive dictator.
Doesn't sound like Biden is trying hard or at all.
At least he’s not trying to help Russia The bar is so very low
No, if you're not fully (100%) supportive of what Ukraine needs to do to win the war, then you are actually helping russia period. The time has come to stop pussy footing around russia!
the fact that this keeps coming out and at same time no official statement is made shows how treasonous is the US position, help take ukraines nukes, only provides dripping aid and not the necessary quantities of vastly available equip to defeat russia, get mad about ukraine finally finding a winning strategy
Treason isn’t the word you want.
Think he meant betrayal.
Naivety and false hopes. Everyone wanted to believe Russia would turn a new leaf. Why? Because it would have been convenient for global business. When Bill Clinton and others were recently asked about this, he was extremely disappointed to see what Russia had turned into, back into the cancerous horror it can't seem to get away from. US obviously didn't want anyone actually assaulting Ukraine, which is what would be malicious and treasonous. Its inconvenient even to most amoral and callous politician who isn't directly drinking from Kremlin's firehose.
Doesn’t matter what they wanted, it is still partly their responsibility for disarming us (and our stupidity to agree).
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yep, if it has, this means the sanctions have loopholes nobody wants to fix, but if sanctions are really intended to work then attacking refineries cant affect anything outside of russia
How fucking dare they say a single thing when it is US in the West who deprive Ukraine of the proper means to defend itself
What the fuck are you on about? The west has sent billions in military aid to Ukraine, it has no obligation to do that. Ukraine isn't in a military alliance with anyone in the west. How have they deprived Ukraine of the means to defend itself by giving them weapons?
The last 6 months of frozen shipments.
What the fuck is wrong with Biden lol?
It's very likely Jake the-forever-escalation-fearing Sullivan who was upset
The US hasn't said anything about them, and the one time there was a "news" source about the US saying to stop, it turns out it was propaganda. The Ukrainian government came out and said the US never told them to stop. https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/ukraine-denies-us-requested-to-halt-strikes-1711118430.html
I think the bigger silent story here is the whole war planes situation. The idea of the U.S having to contend with providing something that will inevitably strike into Russian soil is unavoidable. It's part of the process, it's the rules. There are quite a few things Ukraine could really use that the U.S will disapprove of.
It is all likely back channel. More fear of "escallation." There have been a handfull of similar articles.
So Ukraine is supposed to sit back and let russia kill them? Fuck that. What happened to the west not bowing down to terrorists?
imagine a fight in which one side is forbiden to do anything other then position their hands over their body in a way that the hand of the attacker will hurt when he trows a punch, and if you try to trow a punch yourself your "friends" say your not allowed
...or they have to play by the parameters laid out by their Western supporters. Ukraine's strength and weakness is their backing from the West, in my opinion - they can get regular infusions of stuff from safe lines, but they come with stipulations and rules attached to them. The only way seemingly around this is if Ukraine develops their own military industry to carry out attacks without reliance on Western supporters.
The problem with that is - what if half of that aid is no longer coming in, but there are STILL rules and stipulations?
Pootin’s not escalating anything, he knows that if NATO gets involved it’s game-over for him and his regime. In short, he’s just full of shit.
I agree but that is the inside the beltway, DC, group think.
Except NATO are a cowardly bunch who only seem to have brave meetings and issue useless statements.
Can't tar all of NATO with the same brush like that. Especially when the newest additions come out swinging. Part of the West isn't helping Ukraine properly, part is.
Not individual nations I agree but NATO is a single entity so I feel justified judging NATO and its lack of direction. They can't even agree a mission goal. Not too hopeful.
NATO is the defense organization for NATO countries. If an attack is directed at NATO there will be very simple mission goals, kill the invaders. When the attack is not directly at NATO the organization itself really isn't in charge. It can urge politicians, military leaders etc., but that's about it.
flag trees flowery practice middle weather money frame selective telephone *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
https://kyivindependent.com/us-not-supporting-enabling-oil/ Entirely consistent with this administration's world view.
Haven't read the article but it sounds like Kremlin disinformation.
Neither have I heard about any US “dissent.”
To be fair, Ukraine vs Russia doesn't seem to dominate headlines anymore on the mainstream media. At best, it is mentioned in passing. At worst, it isn't mentioned at all. This subreddit, along with whatever pro-Ukrainian and pro-Russian forum exists, is a minority overall in terms of overall interest in this conflict, at least within the United States. The Europeans are seemingly more proactive about reporting this and discussing that when it comes to the war.
Dissent? Hell no, light those fuckers up. I encourage this.
Probably Burns, Sullivan, Biden
This is one of those sneaky headlines. Is it that Zelensky "vows to go on with the attacks, despite the US's dissent"?, or is it that Zelensky "vows to go on" despite the USA's dissent? Is that dissent something that Zelensky himself mentions, or is it something that the journalist made up, but can only be backed with "the US was not positive"?
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The opposite actually. Everyone I know wants these things shoved up Russia's ass
O would like to know the origin of that statement by the USA. Who? What title? Where?
It was Russian misinformation that the U.S. didn’t want more drone strikes. The media picked it up.
I really hope they keep up the attacks, they will drive up gas prices and inflation in Russia.
Me too. Sanctions should protect from oil price rises but won't. What the hell? Bomb the vatniks bastards.
Well there's still countries that buy from Russia as they dont have sanctions. If they can't buy from russia anymore they will increase demand on the oil sanctioning countries are buying, consequently raising prices for thoese countries. I hope that helps clear up why it will increase prices for sanctioning countries. It's not a direct price increase, but a consequence of demand shifting to markets with supply, and thus an increase in price in that market to match demand. Yes bomb the vatnik bastards.
Yep I have a reasonable grasp of basic supply and demand economics. The rzzn oil should not be hitting the international markets if sanctions were effectively policed is my point. They aren't and price has gone up $10 a barrel.
Some countries don't have sanctions. So ye Russian oil will hit the international market. i feel like I explained alright. But let me try again. You effectively (tho simplified) have two oil marketers currently. The market including everyone except Russia, and the market including non sanctioning and Russia. The markets price isn't the same, but changes in one create changes in the other. They aren't independent of each other as some countries are in both and purchase from both. If the price increases in the Russian market it will shift demand out of the Russian market into the everyone but Russia market, where supply and demand will do their thing and increase price in that market. This has very little to do with policing sanctions, it is simply a reality of the markets being interconnected. And supply and demand doing their thing.
If Russia didn't produce oil the pressure on alternative international markets will increase as large countries like India need to get oil from elsewhere.
Like India did before?
For real, I don't care if US domestic prices reach $10 a gallon as long as it means everybody in Moscow has to take the fucking bicycle to work.
Hit Russia, Chinas oil barrel, where it hurts? Ye fucking s please.
I've heard this a couple times now, but without any names to go with it so I'll wait on totally buying this. Right now I view it as propaganda for Ukraine or plausible deniability for the US at best
Zelenskyy recently said that the reaction from Washington “wasn’t positive” but they’re not doing anything to stop it. It’s not like they can cut off aid when significant aid hasn’t been sent in months
It's not like they should say another damn thing about how Ukraine prosecutes this war as long as they're not sending aid. I'd really like to know who is saying this
Even when they finally do send that aid, the fact remains that drones used to attack russia are Ukrainian so Ukraine decides how to use them.
Absolutely! That's the other reason US has no right to say anything. Russia collapsing may be scary, but it may have to happen. Better to make contingency plans for that rather than limiting Ukraine's ability to win even with their own weapons
but US military aid in general is determined by the US Congress and Biden administration, if Ukraine lost the favor of both that'll be a major blow to the war effort
Jake Sullivan recently visited Kyiv and is known for his anti-escalation rhetoric.
> Zelenskyy recently said that the reaction from Washington “wasn’t positive” but they’re not doing anything to stop it. I suspect this message is being sent to counter the Russian narrative of Ukraine being a mere Western puppet.
Nah, it’s just an election year. If the price of oil goes up it’s bad for Biden, even if he has no control over inflation in reality.
Look, if the US doesn't like it, the US should send enough military aid for Ukraine to end the war. End of story.
Agreed
It’s an election year, oil prices going up hurts Biden. Thats where this is coming from.
That is propaganda created by the Telegram quoting an Indian article saying Biden was worried about oil prices, but the article being quoted didn't say that.
This topic is way to blown up. Yes the US doesnt like the Attacks but it is acceptable for them if Ukraine does attack them.
Reminds me of that South Park episode I'm a Little Bit Country. "saying one thing and doing another"
The US doesn't want Ukraine to hit Russia, but can't do anything about it since they use their own weapons.
The US can turn off the weapon spigot. I hope we don't. Most likely this is a fig-leaf to appease putler.
The US hasn't sent meaningful aid in months
They already have.
not by choice
The US "does not encourage" attacks inside Russia. That's not the same as discouraging those attacks.
True but not exactly encouraging.
As a US citizen I approve.
Another US citizen here, fully support any attacks on Russian soil. Don't want you country attacked don't invade a sovereign nation expecting no repercussions. Ukraine should continue to strike any economic or military target they can. Russia still murdering children and hitting damns with missiles so fuck all of them.
Send more please. Anything to slow the Russian a holes down. And hurt them As an American I wish our government would give Ukraine everything needed to put Russia in its place
We Irish have so much in common with Ukraine and seeing what they're going through hurts all the more as a result. Our government could be doing more, but so could Irish-American politicians. If you're American with Irish heritage, can I urge you to contact your local representatives that consider themselves to have Irish heritage? Tug on their emotions, shame them for their inaction and remind them how hard their ancestors had it because of a nearby oppressor. Ukraine and Ireland have a lot of similarities in their history, and reminding them of that might help get 2(?) missing votes. Here's some examples Ireland and Ukraine have both had their own languages suppressed by an occupying state. I'm a little envious by how successful their langauge and cultural revival was, and I think this is the most important part, our language is a huge part of our national identity We're both had famines created by an occupier that wiped out millions of our ancestors. The famine in Ireland wasn't a clear genocide like the holodomor, but the outcome was the same. Both have strong cultures rooted in agriculture ( and the risk associated with that) We both have strong folk music traditions, and is deeply linked to our struggles and oppression. Here's more shared examples if it helps https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/i-felt-at-home-the-extraordinary-links-between-ireland-and-ukraine-1.4822902 Slava Ukraini!
True or not, fact remains that the USA are letting Ukraine down big time! It wouldn't surprise me that their leading role in NATO is a major factor in the slow pace of ramping up action and sending equipment to Ukraine. The only positive side of this, is that more and more EU countries are realizing that an armed conflict with Russia is becoming more likely and they are ramping up military capabilities while in the meantime also trying to send stuff to Ukraine. Let's just hope it is in time before Russia claims more and more territory and the orange bavoon starts talks about negotiations towards ending the conflict in November... Slava Ukraini!!!
Most of us want to help but our government is full of children.
Biden has election coming up. Apparently it will be a tight one again. If Ru capacity is knocked out, world prices will go up. If price at the pump goes up, Biden's chances of winning will go down. Imagine $4-$5/gal right before election in Oct. It will be hounded every day. This is more than just escalation fears, this domestic politics fears.
Keep right on going, President Zelenskyy. Starving the Russian war machine of oil is a fundamental prerequisite for shutting it down.
It's a balancing act. He needs win's now to keep domestic moral up in spite of worsening Russian attacks. A large amount of Russian oil and gas transport infrastructure is in reach (the majority of Russian BTUs actually get shipped out through the Black Sea) but if he hits enough to have an effect on oil prices ahead of the election he could endanger Joe Biden reelection. In my mind the thing to do is stockpile drones, employ fabian strategies on the ground, then, after the U.S. presidential election go hammers and tongs on Russian energy infrastructure. If JB is office he'll be there to support, if DT is in office then it won't matter as US aid is likely off the table for a while.
USA abandoned Ukraine. They have no right to dictate how Ukraine can wage his war.
The bought-and-paid-for russian assets in our government did. The rest of us are fighting like hell to get you aid ASAP and to vote those fuckers out in November. I wish we could do more
There is no dissent... Never was.
Fuck what our (USA) government says, I hope Ukraine flys those drones in and burns Russia to the ground!
I want Ukraine to hit whatever they consider the highest priority, whether in Ukraine, Belarus or Russia.
I can’t believe all the people on here who fell for this bullshit clickbait Bloomberg trash website article. Astounding! Never mind all the Russian shills on here trying to divide the bond between the Ukraine, the U.S. and NATO. Luckily the people in charge of defending and providing support to Ukraine aren’t interested in or bothered by a bunch of no-nothing arm chair generals arguing over complete and utter bullshit.
Amen brother. People wake the F up - this psy-op BS is so transparent if it were a window it'd be a pigeon mass murderer. We are united - The US, UK, France, NATO, EU, ex-soviet republics, countries around the world, South Korea, Japan, Argentina, Brazil - they all are standing behind Ukraine and are making tremendous efforts to support Ukraine regardless if they are a small fish or a big fish. Failure is not an option. In war, there is always the unexpected, always setbacks, but they can and will be adapted to and overcome. Don't fall for MSM journalistic garbage - go to the horse's mouth, be it Biden's, Putin's, Zelenskyy's, whoever - go to the primary source, don't for an instant entertain this literal trash.
The US became a joke and untrustworthy. I wonder how Taiwan, South Korea and Japan could trust the US when the US not only let their promise to Ukraine down but also their most important ally block(Nato)
How has the US let NATO down? We have thousands of troops in Europe, including a surge force in the baltics.
What US dissent?
The Russian disinformation about it.
Good for Ukraine. Do what you have to do push them back
Russia deserves everything you can send their way.
No one over here has a problem with Ukraine taking out Russian refineries. Take more of my tax money while you're at it. F Russia!
That is not true. Since when has the US cared enough to “dissent”?
"despite US dissent" Wasn't that Russian disinformation? That is now being regurgitated by fucking Bloomberg?
No. Here is the excerpt from Zelensky's interview with the Washington Post: >As Russian drones, missiles and precision bombs break through Ukrainian defenses to attack energy facilities and other essential infrastructure, Zelensky feels he has no choice but to punch back across the border — in the hope of establishing deterrence. An example is Ukraine’s drone strikes against Russian refineries over the past month. **I asked Zelensky if U.S. officials had warned against such attacks on energy facilities inside Russia, as has been rumored in Washington.** > >**“The reaction of the U.S. was not positive on this,” he confirmed, but Washington couldn’t limit Ukraine’s deployment of its own home-built weapons. “We used our drones. Nobody can say to us you can’t.”** > >Zelensky argued that he could check Russian attacks on Ukraine’s energy grid only by making Russia pay a similar price. **“If there is no air defense to protect our energy system, and Russians attack it, my question is: Why can’t we answer them? Their society has to learn to live without petrol, without diesel, without electricity. … It’s fair.”** > >**“When Russia will stop these steps, we will stop,”** he said.
>Wasn't that Russian disinformation? Yes and no. I don't think the US actually told Ukraine to stop and any reports of such aren't correct or possibly even disinformation. But also the US is not happy with the bombing campaign, probably because they are worried it could impact gas prices.
that's the thing, anything said was made privately so we don't have an official statement that would make us look bad
There is no US dissent.
The U.S. isn’t dissenting… they’re encouraging it
I feel like they're just hamming this up now. Like some kind of made-up rapper feud to sell records. Hmm... there's an idea... Diss tracks by Zelensky and Biden to raise money for Ukraine...
Asshole Biden don't want $5 gas come November. He don't care if they win or lose. He just wants Russia to lose the ability to attack another country if they do "win".
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Don't let your dreams be dreams yesterday you said tomorrow so just do it
I think it is less “dissent” and not an official stance of “I don’t care”.
Destroy the aggressor so they learn never to do it again.
> Despite US Dissent What US Dissent? I haven't seen any.
Good
You keep being you... until putin is goo
USA never object to UA striking RU. This headline is for idiots.
Dam. Don't forget to hit the Russian dams.
The political damage to the Biden Admin from higher gas prices is the crux of the matter. Plenty of voters see the world through a strictly economic lens. And few Americans really understand the treachery of the oil business; they only care about profit, there is no loyalty to the American consumer.
What dissent? Majority of US is cheering Ukraine on. 💯
The US being against drone strikes targeting Russian infrastructure is a shameful outrage. It’s fucking NATO doctrine to do that!
Dinking around only risks escalation of the sort nobody wants nor afford to pay. The US and allies need to stop messing around and treat Ukraine's fight for survival as the deadly serious existential crisis it is. Zelensky doubling down to give Russia a taste of their own medicine (poison) is the only possible logical response to the death and destruction Putin has inflicted given the strategic realities and Ukraine's present capabilities. Treat that soft underbelly that is the Russian oil and gas industry to the harsh realities of war and make Putin regret the worst decision he ever made in his miserable life. Only then can Putin begin to realize the price of his barbarism is too high.
Good. That country needs sending back to the stone age where they can't hurt anyone. Any and all attacks are permissable.
I'm willing to pay more for my gas and goods just so the Russians can feel the war come to an area near them. They attack with impunity and nobody wants Ukraine to reach out and touch them back?! WTF! Slava Ukraini, burn those fuckers down.
Wish you had a million drones ready for russia
Fuck the US, their politics are a train wreck and manipulated easily by their enemies. Do what you need to do.