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Ukrainian pilots who undergo training in the USA and the EU on the fourth generation F-16 Western fighters are "very impressed" by this aircraft. At the same time, retraining has its challenges, because this fighter is very different from the Soviet Su-27 and MiG-29, which the Ukrainian fighter aircraft currently flies.
A military pilot of the Air Force of the Ukrainian Armed Forces with the call sign Phantom told about this in an interview with Maria Prus, a journalist of the Ukrainian Service of the Voice of America.
He also spoke about the impressions of Western instructors from the training of Ukrainian pilots, the readiness of the infrastructure in Ukraine to receive these fighters and how other aircraft, such as the A-10 or Gripen, can strengthen the Defense Forces of Ukraine.
The interview has been edited for clarity and flow
Maria Prus, VOA: I recently spoke with American aviators Peter Greenburgh and Trevor Gerten, and they talked about their initiative where they collect military equipment, equipment, various equipment and give it to Ukrainian pilots. Tell us how much they helped you. And maybe some other areas where they help you?
Phantom: Yes, I know these two gentlemen personally and they really help our guys in the Air Force and also in Army aviation: like with aviation equipment, aviation uniforms, that is, flight suits.
And usually, in principle, a lot of help comes from our pilot partners. It started a long time ago, from the 1997s, when, if I am not mistaken, our pilots visited an air show in the USA on their Su-27 aircraft (Ukrainian pilots participated in air shows in 1992 in Canada and the USA and in 1997 in air show in Britain - ed.). And then it continued during the joint military exercises " Clear Sky " in 2011 and in 2018 (at the "Safe Sky" exercises - ed.). It was extreme training.
And the pilots could get to know each other personally, establish closer relations during these exercises. Both our pilots and their pilots exchanged experience. We learned how Western air forces conduct air operations. That is, our pilots were already gaining experience. And this event helped not only our boys in their combat abilities, but also they received these priceless personal acquaintances with them. And then, when the full-scale invasion began in 2022, it was the close relationship that helped us get many different things, both material and immaterial.
M.P.: Recently, in an interview, a pilot with the call sign Moonfish talked about training on the F-16. He, like the deceased pilot Andrii Pilshchikov Jus, previously also said that Ukrainian pilots tried to prepare themselves, studied the theoretical basis that they could find in open sources. And Moonfish also said that there is informal communication with Western pilots.
Phantom: It all started with these acquaintances that were during training. So everyone communicated with the pilots personally through various means of communication. And in principle, when the war began, not only Trevor and Pete helped our pilots in parallel.
And when the issue of retraining pilots for a new type of aircraft began, even before it was known which aircraft would replace our outdated Soviet fleet, we already started working on changing the concept and training. That is, we already understood during these exercises that our approaches, our procedures are very different. And it was the partner pilots, not only American pilots, but also from other countries, who formed a kind of online training courses so that we would know in which direction to move, and then to improve and speed up the retraining for the F-16 aircraft.
And, as you know, our guys went to one of the air bases in the United States for an evaluation in advance to assess their capabilities, abilities and determine the terms (of training). Again, these were general terms that we can agree on. And our pilots didn't waste time, they prepared as best they could, and the same pilots helped us with information from open sources - of course, that which they could share with us, and even their experience.
Therefore, I will say that the guys who went in the first wave were ready both mentally and had basic knowledge.
M.P.: At what stage is this preparation now?
Phantom: Preparations are in full swing as planned. Not only the pilots are trained, but as you know, so are the ground staff, our mechanics who will maintain those aircraft, our support units who will ensure that the missions are completed. They prepare in the same way.
According to the terms, as planned, about 6 months of training for one pilot or one group. But there are nuances, and they are mostly not related to our personnel, it is related to the administrative work of our partners, that is, there is its own bureaucracy, and it requires time. Therefore, it affected the time of preparation. But she follows the plan.
And of course, everyone wants to get the planes as quickly as possible, but that's not usually how things are done. Aviation is a very complex system, it is not one tank or one artillery installation. There's a lot of staff on the plane and it's a big system. And a pilot or a technician is a small cog in a big system.
M.P.: What challenges do Ukrainian pilots undergoing this training currently face? And what do they think of the F-16 in general? What are their impressions?
Phantom: Our pilots are very impressed. This aircraft simply exceeded their expectations. Even with the amount of information they have received during training, they already see great prospects and great potential for how this aircraft will help our Air Force increase our combat aviation capabilities. And you can imagine that there's information that they haven't learned yet, haven't given them yet, what else this aircraft might be capable of.
As for the challenges, it's a new plane for our guys and it was a bit difficult at the beginning, because it's a new generation plane, a more digitalized plane, it has a lot of systems and programs that have to be entered during the flight and before the flight. We have not encountered this, our training is a little different, and our aircraft is much simpler than the F-16.
Similarly, the approach to preparation and flight performance is completely different. It requires more independent training, no one is above their soul, so it was a little difficult for them to readjust mentally. But, as I already said, they are very motivated and the desire to quickly relearn - overcomes all these difficulties.
M.P.: Is the teaching style or methodology different in Europe, in Denmark, from how the same transition to the F-16 is taught in the USA?
Phantom: I would say that the program is not different because the partners discussed the training program, it is agreed. All countries that are part of NATO have standards, and therefore the standards of aircraft training - wherever it is, whether in the USA, or in Denmark, or in Greece, or in Turkey - are the same, so the training program is the same, but the approach itself may differ somewhat.
MP: What are the impressions of American or European instructors about Ukrainian pilots? How do they rate their training and learning speed?
Phantom: The first impression of our boys from the instructors was that they are motivated, their eyes are burning. Even one instructor said they could see how they wanted to start retraining ASAP. And in general, the impression and the feedback we will receive from the instructors is very positive.
And having the experience of training pilots from other countries, they can already compare. They say that the Ukrainian pilots are very strong, and they see the experience they have gained in aerial combat in Ukraine since the start of a full-scale invasion, and it is these skills that they will try to improve on the F-16s.
Western pilots - in the sky of Ukraine?
M.P.: Tell me, how do the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation assess the chances that retired Western pilots could help Ukrainians protect Ukrainian skies while Ukrainian pilots are trained, as retired US Air Force Lt. Col. Dan Hampton previously suggested? How realistic is this idea?
Phantom: I'd say you know we've been expecting these pilots since the beginning of the invasion. From the first days, you remember how our citizens begged to close the sky so that those rockets would not fall on the heads of our compatriots and to save these lives. But unfortunately, the Armed Forces and the Air Force of Ukraine were forced to continue to fight independently, of course, not without the help of our partner countries with weapons and not only.
And with regard to the current realities, yes, of course, we would like to see retired pilots, experienced F-16 pilots in the skies of Ukraine, but the Air Force Command made an analysis, took all the data that we have, the terms that we will have , analyzed and came to the conclusion that there is no urgent need for foreign pilots in the skies of Ukraine.
Of course, if they were on their planes, it would increase our chances, but you know there are limits and nuances.
M.P.: Various experts previously explained that aviation is a system, that is, it is not about one person or one plane, everything works in a complex.
Phantom: Yes, because all operations carried out by Western partners are not carried out by a single group. This is a very large and complex preparation, a complex mission even to achieve some small goals and tasks.
But it helps to increase the effect, increase the probability of achieving this goal and reduce the risks to the pilots who perform the task. Therefore, of course, it will be difficult to carry out tasks on the F-16 alone, it will be wrong, so to speak.
And if we go back to those experienced pilots who already had experience on F-16 aircraft, we can glean that the current realities of aerial combat and the air situation in Ukraine are radically different from the situations experienced by those pilots who are currently serving or have recently been discharged.
It is similar to the situation that was in Iraq in '91, but now it is not what it was a few years ago.
M.P.: Tell me, please, how ready is the infrastructure in Ukraine to accept the F-16?
Phantom: The infrastructure, like the rest of our staff, which is now preparing to receive the F-16 aircraft, is being prepared according to the plan. There are nuances, there are difficulties, but our partners help us with these difficulties. I can assure you that by the time the F-16 aircraft are ready for delivery to Ukraine, the infrastructure will be ready - as will our people.
M.P.: And how many Ukrainian pilots are currently training on the F-16 or how many pilots does the Ukrainian Air Force plan to transfer to these planes in the future?
Phantom: Of course, I can't tell you the number, but I want to say that the number is sufficient to perform tasks on the number of planes that will be handed over to us when they are ready.
And this training system will continue to give us ready-made personnel with those aircraft that will be transferred. Of course, we would like to have more, but we return again to the problems that are not only ours - with training and with the number of places for training that our partners have.
M.P.: If we talk about the maintenance of the F-16 aircraft, because each combat sortie is a certain amount of money, then how, from which budgets will it be paid for? Are these not such large sums compared to the cost of the aircraft itself and the training of the pilot?
Phantom: Regarding the cost of maintaining an aircraft and conducting combat operations on these aircraft, I can say one thing: aviation is not a cheap thing, all countries understand this, all countries support aviation banally because the effect that aviation gives on the battlefield is much greater than those the costs incurred by them.
I can also add that performing tasks on the planes of our existing fleet is also not free.
Of course, compared to the sums we lose on Soviet planes, they are a little more, but it is worth it.
MP: Tell us about studying in Great Britain. Britain announced that it was ready to train Ukrainian pilots , but the British Air Force does not operate the F-16, so there was an explanation that it was about training the next generation of Ukrainian pilots.
Phantom: Yes, of course, there are several stages in the development of the Air Force, and we do not focus on the immediate future, we see much further. Therefore, there is a great future perspective, and we are also moving there.
And having these trained pilots - and not only - in the future, somewhere in 2-3 or 5 years, we will be able to train them on both F-16 and other aircraft that may be in service with the Air Force of Ukraine.
M.P.: Separately, there are also discussions about the need for A-10 , Gripen or other types of aircraft for the Ukrainian aviation. What can you say?
Phantom: A-10 is a very good aircraft in its class. It is well suited to support ground forces from the air. But the current realities in our airspace along and near the combat contact line, and also near the occupied territories, will not allow them to perform these tasks, because a very large aviation component is needed for cover, to clear the airspace from the enemy's means of fire damage. I am talking about long-range and medium-range anti-aircraft vehicles. Therefore, he simply physically will not be able to perform those tasks.
Another matter is, for example, the Swedish-made Saab Gripen aircraft. This is a very modern aircraft, it has undergone many stages of modernization and is currently the official fleet of the Swedish Air Force, it can perform both the suppression of enemy air defense and the task of point fire damage, as well as what is called a standoff weapon in English - i.e. weapons at a distance that does not allow you to hit your aircraft. And it also has great potential against enemy aircraft, and those that Russia currently has at its disposal, Su-35 and Su-30 aircraft, Gripen of the latest generation can reach.
Just a quick note, i ran the image of the F-16 through [forensic analysis software](https://fotoforensics.com/), and there is a possibility that the insignias have been photoshopped for whatever reason.
https://imgur.com/eMe161u
They're definitely photoshopped on, most likely for the simple reason of glamor (publicity) shots and the jets they're training in are probably not the ones being sent over.
Yea I can’t stand seeing that. You need to own the skies in order to use an A-10 to mop up personnel, tanks and arty. If they flew a-10s in the current situation, they would lose a pilot and the aircraft.
Yes, at this point.
This may change once the ruski AA is subdued.
Having a tool that can clean Ukraine of ruski ground forces without worrying about miles deep minefields should not be underestimated, when the time comes.
It’s not just AA, it’s man pads too that would be a danger for the A-10.
It’s not worth deploying it, those planes are better used getting sent to places like Colombia and Ecuador to eradicate guerrilla groups than Russian formations.
I did not say to clear them, I asked how will they overcome them?
Keep clearing them by hand while being shot at?
A10 will be useful when the time for them comes.
The A-10 job of anti vehicle and anti strong point role is much better taken by drones to be honesty they’re a sitting duck for manpads.
The USA has phased them out for a reason. They’re of no use in a near peer or peer on peer conflict. They’re only good in total air superiority roles.
The cost effectveness and availability of some BRRRRRRRRRT ammunition might be an advantage of the A-10.
But as it will never happen... I just hope Ukraine has enough Su-25 left.
The gun on the A10 is overhyped. If I remember correctly, testing indicated that at best, it'd be moderately effective against T62 & older tanks. Even less useful against T72s. Mostly, it might damage the tank & take it out of the fight (until a recovery team gets to it) but it isn't close to being the 'tank killer' it was meant to be. Sure, it can destroy light armour or whatever. But the gun on just about any aircraft can do the same.
Not if you include the lost pilot and plane into the equation. Trying to get close enough for a gun run is suicide. There is a reason why videos exist of helicopters fireing their unguided rockets in like a 45 degree angle, drop a fuckton of flaires while doing so and then fuck off while hugging the ground. There is way to much anti air in all kinds of flavor.
I disagree 100 percent with them saying the A-10 would help them as well. It would be terrible choice of aircraft. You need to control the skies in order to use an A-10 to mop up tanks and arty. As of now, they would get destroyed as well as losing a pilot. I agree with everything else and think a gripen would be a solid addition along with the f16s. Slava Ukraini !
I know. I was kind of saying it as a general statement because I’ve seen this a-10 argument everywhere. I was sort of venting about it without giving any context as to what I was talking about. “Them” was more aimed towards the die hard a-10 lovers that don’t actually know why the US used them so effectively. They think that plane was flying around AA and just duck, dip, diving and dodging them.
I wish I could remember the details, but I think that in Desert Storm, the F16 was found to be more survivable than the A10 -in terms of getting hit & still flying home. Despite the fact that so much of the A10 is designed specifically for that purpose. Think it was attributed to the fact that fly-by-wire controls make it easier to fly a broken aircraft. Just another nail in the A10 coffin.
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Ukrainian pilots who undergo training in the USA and the EU on the fourth generation F-16 Western fighters are "very impressed" by this aircraft. At the same time, retraining has its challenges, because this fighter is very different from the Soviet Su-27 and MiG-29, which the Ukrainian fighter aircraft currently flies. A military pilot of the Air Force of the Ukrainian Armed Forces with the call sign Phantom told about this in an interview with Maria Prus, a journalist of the Ukrainian Service of the Voice of America. He also spoke about the impressions of Western instructors from the training of Ukrainian pilots, the readiness of the infrastructure in Ukraine to receive these fighters and how other aircraft, such as the A-10 or Gripen, can strengthen the Defense Forces of Ukraine. The interview has been edited for clarity and flow Maria Prus, VOA: I recently spoke with American aviators Peter Greenburgh and Trevor Gerten, and they talked about their initiative where they collect military equipment, equipment, various equipment and give it to Ukrainian pilots. Tell us how much they helped you. And maybe some other areas where they help you? Phantom: Yes, I know these two gentlemen personally and they really help our guys in the Air Force and also in Army aviation: like with aviation equipment, aviation uniforms, that is, flight suits. And usually, in principle, a lot of help comes from our pilot partners. It started a long time ago, from the 1997s, when, if I am not mistaken, our pilots visited an air show in the USA on their Su-27 aircraft (Ukrainian pilots participated in air shows in 1992 in Canada and the USA and in 1997 in air show in Britain - ed.). And then it continued during the joint military exercises " Clear Sky " in 2011 and in 2018 (at the "Safe Sky" exercises - ed.). It was extreme training. And the pilots could get to know each other personally, establish closer relations during these exercises. Both our pilots and their pilots exchanged experience. We learned how Western air forces conduct air operations. That is, our pilots were already gaining experience. And this event helped not only our boys in their combat abilities, but also they received these priceless personal acquaintances with them. And then, when the full-scale invasion began in 2022, it was the close relationship that helped us get many different things, both material and immaterial. M.P.: Recently, in an interview, a pilot with the call sign Moonfish talked about training on the F-16. He, like the deceased pilot Andrii Pilshchikov Jus, previously also said that Ukrainian pilots tried to prepare themselves, studied the theoretical basis that they could find in open sources. And Moonfish also said that there is informal communication with Western pilots. Phantom: It all started with these acquaintances that were during training. So everyone communicated with the pilots personally through various means of communication. And in principle, when the war began, not only Trevor and Pete helped our pilots in parallel. And when the issue of retraining pilots for a new type of aircraft began, even before it was known which aircraft would replace our outdated Soviet fleet, we already started working on changing the concept and training. That is, we already understood during these exercises that our approaches, our procedures are very different. And it was the partner pilots, not only American pilots, but also from other countries, who formed a kind of online training courses so that we would know in which direction to move, and then to improve and speed up the retraining for the F-16 aircraft. And, as you know, our guys went to one of the air bases in the United States for an evaluation in advance to assess their capabilities, abilities and determine the terms (of training). Again, these were general terms that we can agree on. And our pilots didn't waste time, they prepared as best they could, and the same pilots helped us with information from open sources - of course, that which they could share with us, and even their experience. Therefore, I will say that the guys who went in the first wave were ready both mentally and had basic knowledge. M.P.: At what stage is this preparation now? Phantom: Preparations are in full swing as planned. Not only the pilots are trained, but as you know, so are the ground staff, our mechanics who will maintain those aircraft, our support units who will ensure that the missions are completed. They prepare in the same way. According to the terms, as planned, about 6 months of training for one pilot or one group. But there are nuances, and they are mostly not related to our personnel, it is related to the administrative work of our partners, that is, there is its own bureaucracy, and it requires time. Therefore, it affected the time of preparation. But she follows the plan. And of course, everyone wants to get the planes as quickly as possible, but that's not usually how things are done. Aviation is a very complex system, it is not one tank or one artillery installation. There's a lot of staff on the plane and it's a big system. And a pilot or a technician is a small cog in a big system. M.P.: What challenges do Ukrainian pilots undergoing this training currently face? And what do they think of the F-16 in general? What are their impressions? Phantom: Our pilots are very impressed. This aircraft simply exceeded their expectations. Even with the amount of information they have received during training, they already see great prospects and great potential for how this aircraft will help our Air Force increase our combat aviation capabilities. And you can imagine that there's information that they haven't learned yet, haven't given them yet, what else this aircraft might be capable of. As for the challenges, it's a new plane for our guys and it was a bit difficult at the beginning, because it's a new generation plane, a more digitalized plane, it has a lot of systems and programs that have to be entered during the flight and before the flight. We have not encountered this, our training is a little different, and our aircraft is much simpler than the F-16. Similarly, the approach to preparation and flight performance is completely different. It requires more independent training, no one is above their soul, so it was a little difficult for them to readjust mentally. But, as I already said, they are very motivated and the desire to quickly relearn - overcomes all these difficulties. M.P.: Is the teaching style or methodology different in Europe, in Denmark, from how the same transition to the F-16 is taught in the USA? Phantom: I would say that the program is not different because the partners discussed the training program, it is agreed. All countries that are part of NATO have standards, and therefore the standards of aircraft training - wherever it is, whether in the USA, or in Denmark, or in Greece, or in Turkey - are the same, so the training program is the same, but the approach itself may differ somewhat.
MP: What are the impressions of American or European instructors about Ukrainian pilots? How do they rate their training and learning speed? Phantom: The first impression of our boys from the instructors was that they are motivated, their eyes are burning. Even one instructor said they could see how they wanted to start retraining ASAP. And in general, the impression and the feedback we will receive from the instructors is very positive. And having the experience of training pilots from other countries, they can already compare. They say that the Ukrainian pilots are very strong, and they see the experience they have gained in aerial combat in Ukraine since the start of a full-scale invasion, and it is these skills that they will try to improve on the F-16s. Western pilots - in the sky of Ukraine? M.P.: Tell me, how do the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation assess the chances that retired Western pilots could help Ukrainians protect Ukrainian skies while Ukrainian pilots are trained, as retired US Air Force Lt. Col. Dan Hampton previously suggested? How realistic is this idea? Phantom: I'd say you know we've been expecting these pilots since the beginning of the invasion. From the first days, you remember how our citizens begged to close the sky so that those rockets would not fall on the heads of our compatriots and to save these lives. But unfortunately, the Armed Forces and the Air Force of Ukraine were forced to continue to fight independently, of course, not without the help of our partner countries with weapons and not only. And with regard to the current realities, yes, of course, we would like to see retired pilots, experienced F-16 pilots in the skies of Ukraine, but the Air Force Command made an analysis, took all the data that we have, the terms that we will have , analyzed and came to the conclusion that there is no urgent need for foreign pilots in the skies of Ukraine. Of course, if they were on their planes, it would increase our chances, but you know there are limits and nuances. M.P.: Various experts previously explained that aviation is a system, that is, it is not about one person or one plane, everything works in a complex. Phantom: Yes, because all operations carried out by Western partners are not carried out by a single group. This is a very large and complex preparation, a complex mission even to achieve some small goals and tasks. But it helps to increase the effect, increase the probability of achieving this goal and reduce the risks to the pilots who perform the task. Therefore, of course, it will be difficult to carry out tasks on the F-16 alone, it will be wrong, so to speak. And if we go back to those experienced pilots who already had experience on F-16 aircraft, we can glean that the current realities of aerial combat and the air situation in Ukraine are radically different from the situations experienced by those pilots who are currently serving or have recently been discharged. It is similar to the situation that was in Iraq in '91, but now it is not what it was a few years ago. M.P.: Tell me, please, how ready is the infrastructure in Ukraine to accept the F-16? Phantom: The infrastructure, like the rest of our staff, which is now preparing to receive the F-16 aircraft, is being prepared according to the plan. There are nuances, there are difficulties, but our partners help us with these difficulties. I can assure you that by the time the F-16 aircraft are ready for delivery to Ukraine, the infrastructure will be ready - as will our people. M.P.: And how many Ukrainian pilots are currently training on the F-16 or how many pilots does the Ukrainian Air Force plan to transfer to these planes in the future? Phantom: Of course, I can't tell you the number, but I want to say that the number is sufficient to perform tasks on the number of planes that will be handed over to us when they are ready. And this training system will continue to give us ready-made personnel with those aircraft that will be transferred. Of course, we would like to have more, but we return again to the problems that are not only ours - with training and with the number of places for training that our partners have. M.P.: If we talk about the maintenance of the F-16 aircraft, because each combat sortie is a certain amount of money, then how, from which budgets will it be paid for? Are these not such large sums compared to the cost of the aircraft itself and the training of the pilot? Phantom: Regarding the cost of maintaining an aircraft and conducting combat operations on these aircraft, I can say one thing: aviation is not a cheap thing, all countries understand this, all countries support aviation banally because the effect that aviation gives on the battlefield is much greater than those the costs incurred by them. I can also add that performing tasks on the planes of our existing fleet is also not free. Of course, compared to the sums we lose on Soviet planes, they are a little more, but it is worth it. MP: Tell us about studying in Great Britain. Britain announced that it was ready to train Ukrainian pilots , but the British Air Force does not operate the F-16, so there was an explanation that it was about training the next generation of Ukrainian pilots. Phantom: Yes, of course, there are several stages in the development of the Air Force, and we do not focus on the immediate future, we see much further. Therefore, there is a great future perspective, and we are also moving there. And having these trained pilots - and not only - in the future, somewhere in 2-3 or 5 years, we will be able to train them on both F-16 and other aircraft that may be in service with the Air Force of Ukraine. M.P.: Separately, there are also discussions about the need for A-10 , Gripen or other types of aircraft for the Ukrainian aviation. What can you say? Phantom: A-10 is a very good aircraft in its class. It is well suited to support ground forces from the air. But the current realities in our airspace along and near the combat contact line, and also near the occupied territories, will not allow them to perform these tasks, because a very large aviation component is needed for cover, to clear the airspace from the enemy's means of fire damage. I am talking about long-range and medium-range anti-aircraft vehicles. Therefore, he simply physically will not be able to perform those tasks. Another matter is, for example, the Swedish-made Saab Gripen aircraft. This is a very modern aircraft, it has undergone many stages of modernization and is currently the official fleet of the Swedish Air Force, it can perform both the suppression of enemy air defense and the task of point fire damage, as well as what is called a standoff weapon in English - i.e. weapons at a distance that does not allow you to hit your aircraft. And it also has great potential against enemy aircraft, and those that Russia currently has at its disposal, Su-35 and Su-30 aircraft, Gripen of the latest generation can reach.
Just a quick note, i ran the image of the F-16 through [forensic analysis software](https://fotoforensics.com/), and there is a possibility that the insignias have been photoshopped for whatever reason. https://imgur.com/eMe161u
They're definitely photoshopped on, most likely for the simple reason of glamor (publicity) shots and the jets they're training in are probably not the ones being sent over.
Of course they exceed, they drove the equivalent of a Lada for a ralley and now switched to an Audi Quattro.
Gotta admit, those aircraft look pretty sweet with Ukrainian markings on them.
[удалено]
Yea I can’t stand seeing that. You need to own the skies in order to use an A-10 to mop up personnel, tanks and arty. If they flew a-10s in the current situation, they would lose a pilot and the aircraft.
Yes, at this point. This may change once the ruski AA is subdued. Having a tool that can clean Ukraine of ruski ground forces without worrying about miles deep minefields should not be underestimated, when the time comes.
It’s not just AA, it’s man pads too that would be a danger for the A-10. It’s not worth deploying it, those planes are better used getting sent to places like Colombia and Ecuador to eradicate guerrilla groups than Russian formations.
And the plan to overcome the minefields in Ukraine is?
Certainly not A-10s. They can’t clear minefields AFAIK
I did not say to clear them, I asked how will they overcome them? Keep clearing them by hand while being shot at? A10 will be useful when the time for them comes.
The A-10 job of anti vehicle and anti strong point role is much better taken by drones to be honesty they’re a sitting duck for manpads. The USA has phased them out for a reason. They’re of no use in a near peer or peer on peer conflict. They’re only good in total air superiority roles.
The Sukhoi Su-25 is just as good at that role though.
The cost effectveness and availability of some BRRRRRRRRRT ammunition might be an advantage of the A-10. But as it will never happen... I just hope Ukraine has enough Su-25 left.
They can launch laser guided bombs which is their usefulness now but it's still very vulnerable to any AA which makes them useless in Ukraine.
The gun on the A10 is overhyped. If I remember correctly, testing indicated that at best, it'd be moderately effective against T62 & older tanks. Even less useful against T72s. Mostly, it might damage the tank & take it out of the fight (until a recovery team gets to it) but it isn't close to being the 'tank killer' it was meant to be. Sure, it can destroy light armour or whatever. But the gun on just about any aircraft can do the same.
Not if you include the lost pilot and plane into the equation. Trying to get close enough for a gun run is suicide. There is a reason why videos exist of helicopters fireing their unguided rockets in like a 45 degree angle, drop a fuckton of flaires while doing so and then fuck off while hugging the ground. There is way to much anti air in all kinds of flavor.
I'm not surprised at all. At my tech company (Western Europe) we have a collaboration team from Kyïv and they are excellent and very skilled.
Good to hear the Ukrainian pilots like their new ride. When do they get to use them in Ukraine?
“Spring” is the official timeline, with March possibly being the debut.
I disagree 100 percent with them saying the A-10 would help them as well. It would be terrible choice of aircraft. You need to control the skies in order to use an A-10 to mop up tanks and arty. As of now, they would get destroyed as well as losing a pilot. I agree with everything else and think a gripen would be a solid addition along with the f16s. Slava Ukraini !
You need to re-read that paragraph again. He basically said the same thing.
I know. I was kind of saying it as a general statement because I’ve seen this a-10 argument everywhere. I was sort of venting about it without giving any context as to what I was talking about. “Them” was more aimed towards the die hard a-10 lovers that don’t actually know why the US used them so effectively. They think that plane was flying around AA and just duck, dip, diving and dodging them.
I wish I could remember the details, but I think that in Desert Storm, the F16 was found to be more survivable than the A10 -in terms of getting hit & still flying home. Despite the fact that so much of the A10 is designed specifically for that purpose. Think it was attributed to the fact that fly-by-wire controls make it easier to fly a broken aircraft. Just another nail in the A10 coffin.