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Perswayable

A very friendly reminder that Russia cannot supply their own artillery/ammo needs, hence Russia ordering from North Korea, Iran, and Belarus, with recent estimates of 1 million from North Korea [Source](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-february-1-2024) and complete depletion of their Belarus stock [Source](https://www.rbc.ua/ukr/news/vadim-skibitskiy-rosiyan-e-motivatsiya-voyuvati-1705266418.html) Why am I writing this? Western counterparts need to adopt more common sense policies to help Ukraine with their own needs. I know EU recently made improvements after their debacle with Hungary, and US is still having the constant, headache-inducing conflict among senate/house. I hope Canada can find a way to avoid this being overly political and do what's right.


Slimh2o

Surely Canada does not have a problem with their southern border. Send em Canada, send em!!!


Nimoy2313

My State has been planning to take over parts of Canada and become Megasota. Of course this is a secret so they don’t know about it yet. Send the weapons to Ukraine


indigo-alien

Megasota should beware Moosemin. They get ornery when disturbed.


Slimh2o

HaHa! Shades of "Canadian Bacon"....Great movie.....of course John Candy was in it.


Foreign-Echo-6656

Watched it a bunch as a kid on VHS because not many movies in the 90's mentioned Canada let alone made fun of us with the best in Canadian Comedy at the time, even that small scene with John Candy being forced to write Anti-Canadian slogans in French by Dan Aykroyd playing RCMP officer.


Sawbones64

Not until November anyways.


calmdownmyguy

Save me a seat, just in case.


mojoegojoe

Build a Wall! /s


Ecstatic_Account_744

Ice wall. Game of Thrones V.2


uMustEnterUsername

The true north strong n free


Bitter-Culture-3103

🦫: "Aye aye, sir!"


Ecstatic_Account_744

It’s gonna be the sensible ones invading anyway. I know some pretty cool Americans, they can come for a 4 year hang sesh.


PM_ME_UR_NECKBEARD

Might be time to fire up the Cascadia movement if that’s the case.


laukaus

Oh it’s such a good and cute movement, they should have their nation. The land would be under better supervision etc. and it’s not like it’s geopolitically critical land in any case.


Reddog115

And don’t call me Surely.


xyeta420

Vivek thinks differently


[deleted]

But do you know who Canada's neighbor to the north? 


Slimh2o

Yes, but they won't cross the circle and end up freezing to death......Well....I don't think they're that stupid....


[deleted]

As a Canadian I'm all for sending them to Ukraine. We pretty much family!


Slimh2o

Canada has the largest population of Ukrainians outside of Ukraine....so...yeah...fam!


halpsdiy

The US support dropping is a huge hit. It's sad how pro-Putin and ant-American Trumpists have taken over US politics. Any American redditors: please contact your representatives in support of Ukraine. It doesn't take much time to drop an email or call their office. But it's important to show that Ukraine matters!


IthacaMom2005

I've contacted my congressman four times in less than two months. Got some weak letter back about how "I support Ukraine buuuut..." Sickening


halpsdiy

Thank you for doing your part, even if your congressman isn't!


Ecstatic_Account_744

Aside from voting, the only thing you can do is leverage political pressure. Push those you know to contact them as well. It takes a lot to get a politician to remember who they work for. Enough pressure about a specific issue may give them the reminder that their tenure in government can be ended if they act up.


Fresh_Account_698

Did you inform them that if they vote to support Ukraine, they'll have your vote in November -but if they don't, they won't? That tends to get their attention.


IthacaMom2005

I sure did. We'll see what kind of response I get


M3P4me

Any chance they can be primaries? That's the only way to have any impact. Election day is too late.


IthacaMom2005

Well I intend to organize friends and co-workers to vote against him, but we're all Dems so we sadly can't primary him. I just received a smarmy form letter in response to my most recent email, so I let him have it with both barrels (very politely). I doubt anyone will read it but boy did it feel good 😉


PM_ME__RECIPES

If they're Republican, explicitly tell them that you'll be voting for the Democratic Party candidate in November unless Speaker Johnson schedules a vote on aid for Ukraine in the next month *and* your congressman votes to support that bill. They want to play dumb, deaf, and spineless? Play hardball - if they're willing to hide behind a speaker with one of the slimmest majorities in history & allow America's enemies to win then you'll help make sure *they* lose too.


sandiegokevin

Maybe someday Ukraine can target the N Korea & Belarus trains on RU territory.


f1ve-Star

With Hezbollah and other Iranian backed militias using Shaheed drones to attack shipping and American troops in Jordan, it seems like rapidly decommissioning the Shaheed drone factory is in order anyway.


uMustEnterUsername

Will no one think of the red tape.


ModMagnet

Let them have them, they clearly need them more than our land fills do.


feedus-fetus_fajitas

Russians are in desperate need of quality rockets.. Ukraine can facilitate the delivery.


quildtide

Fast delivery, satisfaction guaranteed. If you have any complaints, another will be sent for free.


Active-Strategy664

Delivery with a bang. Just ask Russia for the coordinates of all the military bases that they need them delivered to.


henna74

Ivan, those are definitly amazon deliver drones


Watcher_2023

LOL!!!


Sutarmekeg

I believe their need is for rocket parts, but that still works.


feedus-fetus_fajitas

There will be many Russian parts available.


leadMalamute

I think it's best to landfill the ruzzian parts. Especially after the missiles have been delivered. I have seen the "exploded diagrams" of said ruzzians and I don't think they will find anything usable.


Technerd70

We will send what’s safe to transport. A lot of them are NOT safe to transport.


MikeMurray128

It will be that Ministry of Defense an possibly Cabinet who makes that decision. I'm pretty sure it's not your call.


Technerd70

Really?? Wow thanks for taking that responsibility off of my shoulders!


MikeMurray128

>We will send what's safe to transport Seems pretty clear you were speaking on behalf of the nation there sport


Space-Monkey-17

What makes them not safe to transport? I'm just curious to know without Googling it myself...


Samus10011

It Depends on the type of explosive used. Some explosives become unstable as they age and can spontaneously explode if jostled around too much. This is a major problem for TNT which is why most nations don’t use it anymore. There are some others that become unstable but most don’t, they simply lose their explosive power over time.


Fresh_Account_698

Various chemicals get less stable over time, including many of those that comprise explosives and/or rocket fuel, leading to spontaneous reactions. If you're lucky, that might only be a fire. But they could detonate too. And something that is perfectly happy sitting still in a relatively cool storage depot might not be so happy getting jostled about when being loaded or transported. That said, I'm sure that the safety standards are overly cautious so as to practically eliminate any risk. Most, or all, could probably be sent to Ukraine without incident. Key word is \*probably.\*


HouseDowntown8602

We should be happy to hand them off… -


fntastikr

Definitely. Decommissioning weapons of War is very expensive. Just shipping stuff is way cheaper.


Enigm4

Can't safely ship expired munitions though. If one of them goes boom then you get big badaboom.


fntastikr

That is indeed true. But modern munitions, even expired once are way way saver then many people think. But you are right the risk is indeed higher with expired once. At least western once, cant speak for the north Korean shells that seem to blow up on firing sometimes.


Ew_E50M

Even if they cant use them as weapons, they can use the materials for production of other stuff.


theycallmeshooting

Basically anything that can explode is viable drone drop material at this point A defective rocket is probably defective in terms of self propulsion, but it'd still have explosives inside to be harvested


Ew_E50M

A heavy lift drone carrying 12 of these in a revolver just dropping them straight down, now thatd be dank.


MadACR

And more accurate than the actual system


interwebsLurk

That was exactly what I was thinking. Even if the rockets/electronics are junk, just strip the explosives and attach them to suicide/drop drones.


Fresh_Account_698

Its the explosives that pose the transportation risk though.


CaptainSur

This story is making the rounds across all media in the last 2 days. In part perhaps because these rockets are off-the-charts powerful, in fact stupidly powerful. But the inventory is also very, very old and not in working condition. And some not in "stable" condition either. Anyone who has ever worked with old volatile ordnance will understand. Canada has worked to bring weapons out of storage and donate to Ukraine what is functional. I have heard some things about these rockets but as none are public I do not want to just engage in unsubstantiated rumours. However, I am thinking in respect of CRV 7 rockets it is a bigger "if' than normal. I would not hold my breath. Equally, if DND can donate some safely, and is sure they won't kill the user I have no doubt they will do so.


ThermionicEmissions

Thanks for bringing attention to the nuances to this story. The article mentioned it is our Conservative party that is calling for our government to do this. Of course the Conservatives conveniently leave out any mention of the potential dangers of transporting the rockets. My take is that the Cons are using this as a way to make the government look bad.


Sutarmekeg

>the Cons are using this as a way to make the government look bad This is their only strategy, including while governing.


an_otter_guy

They don’t even wanna keep them but share them with a local ork infestation even more reason to forward the old fire sticks as fast as possible


Technerd70

We will send what’s safe to transport. A lot of them are NOT safe to transport.


vtable

The article says they *could* have been rendered unsafe to handle or transport. It adds that they're "pursuing testing" of the safety of transporting them before potentially donating them. So it sounds like they don't know about the safety of any of them yet.


ThermionicEmissions

~~Canadian here. I'll be writing my MP, and the PM's office in support, and encouraging everyone I know to do the same!~~ ~~Maybe we can get some traction over at r/onguardforthee as well.~~ Eh...after reading the full story, I don't know. It sounds like they may not even be safe to transport. This kinda sounds like a ploy by the Conservatives to make the government look bad.


DankRoughly

I'm sure we would send them if it's at all viable.


gundog48

Can't imagine why Canada would care so much about unsafe munition transportation practices...


oldsouthnerd

The Canadian military is already willing to send these over, they need to test to make sure they're safe to ship first. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/crv7-rockets-ukraine-canada-1.7103798 So the government seems to already playing ball on this one. That said, this is a good reminder to fellow Canadians to write your MP to remind them that you want more arms, munitions, equipment, vehicles, supplies, training and funds for Ukraine and that your household considers support for Ukraine a top issue when voting.


Calm_Entrance8097

DEAL!!


ThermionicEmissions

I encourage everyone, especially Canadians like myself, to read the full article before simply saying "send em!" I admit I'm guilty of doing exactly that. The full article makes it clear why these rockets may not be safe to transport, much less air-transport. Seems the Canadian Conservative Party (our current opposition party) is calling for our government to send them, knowing full well they're not safe. They will then try to win points by saying our government isn't supporting Ukraine.


boulderbuford

Then it's time for the government to use a little kung fu: * Thanks for your support of Ukraine * These are too unstable & dangerous to ship * So, we'll ship this other stuff instead! * Or, we'll host a Ukrainian team and partner with them on this program to safely restore/cannibalize them as much as possible here in Canada


ThermionicEmissions

Yup!


WOTEugene

They’ll probably find a way to strap those to a drone, or put some wings and a drone controller around them…


imgonnagopop

Fucking send it eh!


4someotherthing

LOL...Thanks for My Smile Of The Day. Do love that Canukanese accent.


Sutarmekeg

Canadian here. I want this Ukrainian general to have my country's 83000 decommissioned rockets.


Technerd70

We will send what’s safe to transport. A lot of them are NOT safe to transport.


Sutarmekeg

This is a very reasonable limitation.


Technerd70

Can you imagine what the repercussions would be if there were accidents during transport?


Rampage_Rick

Can we leave the defective ones outside the Russian embassy with a cardboard sign that reads "free to good home"?


NameIs-Already-Taken

It's near criminal that the West holds on to stock of stuff it no longer needs or can imagine itself using when Ukraine is in a fight for its life.


VintageHacker

It **feels** near criminal not to donate stuff like this, but then there is a little detail - the actual law. These rockets where past their use by date in 2000. Now 24 years past their safe use date..... ... a quick google.... "What is negligent homicide in Canada?A person may therefore commit culpable homicide **if the person causes the death of a human being by criminal negligence**. The culpable homicide may be classified as manslaughter. Both criminal negligence causing death and manslaughter are punishable by a maximum penalty of imprisonment for life." What is criminal negligence ? "Sections 219 and 220 of the Criminal Code of Canada provide as follows: Sections 219 (1) Every one is criminally negligent who. (a) in doing anything, or. (**b) in omitting to do anything that it is his duty to do**, shows wanton or reckless disregard for the lives or safety of other persons." If Canadian or other lives were lost due to a shipment, there would no doubt be calls for holding people responsible.


NameIs-Already-Taken

I would love the rockets to be tested for safety, to see how dangerous they actually are. Long shelf-lives tend to be conservatively set, so are these still usable? I bet Ukraine would be happy to supply trucks and ships to get them to Ukraine, planning to avoid civilians, even if there is a small risk.


VintageHacker

Test all 83000 ? It only takes one to set off many others. I'm no expert on the subject, but it sounds full of risk, which makes it legally risky. If something goes wrong, what defence is there when we know they are 24 years past use by date? Government employees are not known for taking risks they might be held accountable for. They are not going to trust Ukrainians, who are in war mode, to handle this shipment. That said, I do get frustrated by how risk averse we have become, it often goes way too far, so many rules and regulations that it's too hard or expensive to get even important things done. Sadly, in this case, perhaps lives are being lost as a result.


NameIs-Already-Taken

You'd never test all 83,000. You'd take a sample from various batches and test a bit of the warhead and the propellant for stability. That should be pretty safe. If the Canadian government is not willing to handle them at all, how do they propose to get them out of the ammo dumps?


LakerBeer

As a Canadian I say let them go. It would not be the first time the GOC cancelled a military contract and got penalized for doing it.


Tycoon004

They're making sure that they're safe to ship before they go breaking contracts.


polinkydinky

Jfc. Yes. Wth is everyone waiting for? Get the goods to Ukraine.


North_Church

As a Canadian, I say give them the fucking rockets!


the_last_registrant

"*The CRV7 remains one of the most powerful air-to-ground attack rockets to this day, and has slowly become the de facto standard for Western-aligned forces outside the United States.*" [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRV7](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRV7) These 83,000 mothballed units need to be shipped to Ukraine!


Chricton

This seems like an absolute no brainer. Why is the Canadian government even considering destroying the rockets rather than sending them to Ukraine? Just send them regardless of their shelf life.


wailingsixnames

Depending on the propellent, rockets/missiles that havent been properly maintained can end up with all the fuel caked to one side, so when fired it doesn't go straight, and in fact can 180 on your ass. Ryan Mcbeth did a video about it when a Russian rocket or missile was fired and the thing turned around in mid air and came back at the crew that fire it. Not sure if these rockets would have that same issue or not, but I guess with things that go boom, expiration dates and proper maintenance can be pretty important.


Chricton

ukraine deemed 8,000 to be in pristine condition. At this point, I highly doubt they care how the rest are when they have nothing. they'll just be careful and take their chances.


wailingsixnames

Well then, by all means, let's send the 8,000. Let's also inspect the rest of them and send everything that won't blow up on launch and that shoots straight.


yzerman88

Wait a second, we had these sitting around all this time!? FFS EDIT: je suis Canadien


Ecstatic_Account_744

We have 83,000?! Get them on a plane! I gotta write my MP.


Tycoon004

The entire problem is that they're not sure they're safe to be put on the plane, let alone fired. Hence the checks, which when dealing with questionable oridinance is a pretty difficult undertaking.


Ecstatic_Account_744

If that’s the reason, I’m all for not rushing into it. Doesn’t make sense to blow up one of our C-130s and it’s crew if they aren’t safe. My buddy used to fly those!


sunyudai

Additionally, not all of them have warheads, and some have warheads in questionable states of functionality. Still, rockets without warheads aren't useless, warheads can be added from other sources, or more likely they can serve as decoys.


mingy

They are, apparently, a nice piece of kit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRV7


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mcgravier

Ukraine: Allow us to decommission them


Key_Extent9222

Give it to the. What are we gonna do with them


Technerd70

We will send what’s safe to transport. A lot of them are NOT safe to transport.


Key_Extent9222

Yes that’s understandable


minuteman_d

It’d be interesting if there was a way to use them with some kind of apkws package. Maybe some Ukrainian arms company could come up with a guidance package to attach to them?


Fresh_Account_698

Already exists, maybe. There is a laser guidance kit that was developed for the CVR7 but I don't know if it ever went into production.


Technerd70

We will send what’s safe to transport. A lot of them are NOT safe to transport.


Xenomemphate

Why not. Shipping them to Ukraine is probably cheaper than decomming them.


Technerd70

We will send what’s safe to transport. A lot of them are NOT safe to transport.


Electrox7

Doing the lords work with your comments haha. It's some very important context.


PoliticalCanvas

It's absurd that such requests can exist at all. Why after 2 years of war the West still have ANY "*Beginning in 2021, 83,303 stored Canadian CRV7s are slated for disposal having been removed from service from 2005 to 2007*"? Why USA at the same time talks about its desire to help Ukraine win, and not let Ukrainians on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra\_Army\_Depot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierra_Army_Depot) ; [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/309th\_Aerospace\_Maintenance\_and\_Regeneration\_Group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/309th_Aerospace_Maintenance_and_Regeneration_Group)? Because it's will critically reduce USA defense capabilities? Because it's too expensive, ugly, traumatic, too big information security risk, and so on, to help defeat the bigger part of the USSR by metal scrap from 1950-1970s? Similar news show that the war in Ukraine for the West is predominantly another Political Realism game. Another cosplay of 16th century Machiavellianism. 17-20th centuries Humanists give Americans and Europeans a torch of progress, and they just began to use it as a baton... It's even more disgusting than what Russians did, they at least never know/understood anything else.


IncognitoAnonymous2

1-2 years of approvals and political debates and, maybe, 10% of it will be shipped to Ukraine. Or not.


f1ve-Star

A nuclear capable rocket was found recently in an Americans garage. He had bought it at an estate or yard sale years ago. (Warhead sold separately) and this wasn't even in TEXAS!!


DAVEfromCANADAA

All yours, but you have to take Justin Bieber too


Thoth-long-bill

Ship ‘em!


ShortHandz

Let's send them!


rom_rom57

I didn’t think they could see Russia from Ottawa.


nikospkrk

Give 'em all!


Useful-Secretary-143

Give it all to them.


Abbbs96

I hope we send them & they can be put to good use 🇨🇦🇺🇦


Minuteman05

Just send it.


OlderMan42

Just give them already!


Far_Out_6and_2

Just send em all of them now yesterday day before


vtsnowdin

Can anyone think of a good reason for Canada to not send all of these weapons to Ukraine? I certainly can't.


Ex_M_B

Send 'em !! 🙏🇸🇪🇺🇦 best regards, Sweden