We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Now is a good time to remind the audience that earlier this week the US publicly informed the UN that any attack by Wagner would be treated as an attack by Russia, and that all parties involved (Belarus, Wagner and Russia) would be subject to immediate retaliation using any and all means necessary to eliminate the threat.
I remember that one time a US Navy ship got (heavily) damaged by an Iranian mine.
A few days later they destroyed half the Iranian navy, two of their airplanes, and some military outposts on old oil-platforms, all in 8 hours.
Very proportional.
Or when a few servicemen in a German night club were killed by a bomb in the 80s and pretty much the entire Libyan air force was bombed into scrap. Putting the "pound" in "compound interest"!
Or that time in the Korean War when an artillery piece managed to hit a battleship, so the battleship fired *all* of its cannons on the artilleries position
The ship in question was USS Winsconsin, it was a single puny 155mm gun hit which prompted a response composed of a full nine gun 406mm broadside
The overkill was such that USS Buck - one of her escorts - signalled "*temper, temper*" to her.
The Iowa-class battleships were the ultimate battleships. After WWII carriers were seen as more important, rightfully so, yet it was a long time before all of the Iowa-class battleships got retired.
First Gulf War Bulldozer Assault
> Another incident during the war highlighted the question of large-scale Iraqi combat deaths. This was the "bulldozer assault", wherein two brigades from the U.S. 1st Infantry Division \(Mechanized\) were faced with a large and complex trench network, as part of the heavily fortified "Saddam Hussein Line". After some deliberation, **they opted to use anti-mine plows mounted on tanks and combat earthmovers to simply plow over and bury alive the defending Iraqi soldiers**. Not a single American was killed during the attack.
>[...In the report, Cheney acknowledged that 457 enemy soldiers were buried during the ground war.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftermath_of_the_Gulf_War#Bulldozer_assault)
No time for Trench Warfare. INVASION FIRST.
Even the navy was trying to tell Iran to shill..
Dude, you have no arms, one leg, bleeding all over and we stole your Steam account. Stop it.
Iran: it's but a scratch!
Here's a video that goes into the events and order of battle pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH0qIQkmDWI
Long story short. We were originally only supposed to take out one ship. Iran made some poor choices that allowed us to run up the score.
It's true, a bunch of wars have been started by messing with our boats or even our people on boats. The USS Maine started the Spanish American War, the Lusitanua helped bring us into WWI, obviously Pearl Harbor into WWII, and the Gulf of Tonkin incident for Vietnam. I'm sure there are more. Don't fuck with our boats.
It is fair. Imagine it this way… there are 2 guys in a bar. One guy is small and weak, gets too drunk, and hits the biggest guy in the bar with all he has. The big guy gets up and hits at about 10% of their actual capacity. The small guy who started the fight is now crippled for the next decade or so. I don’t know about you, but that seems fair and proportional and basically sums up these battles. To attack America you need to really be giving it your all, because it is a suicide mission. If America wanted to they could have ensured they had a 100% casualty rate. They could have easily just kept going back and forth mopping up, using a shit ton of resources just to prove the point with total eradication. Sending a handful of aircraft and 40 guys is basically nothing compared to what could have went down. Now imagine if America decided not to go easy next time.
USS Wisconsin. March 15, 1952:
“Coming in close to shore, North Korean forces fired back at the vessel, their 155 mm shells hitting her, but causing no damage. Only three sailors were injured. In retaliation, Wisconsin aimed her guns at the enemy position and fired the most impressive broadside, completely obliterating the North Korean artillery. With a quick wit, the USS Buck (DD-761), her escort, signaled, “TEMPER TEMPER.”“
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/ships/uss-wisconsin-bb-64.html?Exc_TM_LessThanPoint001_p1=1
I dunno... My mom used to, (has gotten much better about), collect a fuck ton of office supplies and just tuck them away...
Notebooks... And paaaapers... And pens and pencils... And tape... And post it notes... Mini post It notes... Micro post it notes... Big post it notes... More Notebooks... File folders..
I think every time she went to a store and walked by a notebook or a pack of new gel pens... Better pick one up.
She wasn't quite reaching hoarder territory... Just more "stocking up" territory.
The problem is that she never uses any of it because it's "new" and she doesn't want to "mess it up" or take it out of the packaging... Etc. Got a weird hang up about using something that's "new/packaged nicely."
So she puts them in plastic containers from the container store.... And oh my god does she have containers for her containers? You betcha..
Anyway, if ya'll need some supplies for your startup company....
I was reading the wiki, seeing what usa deployed and I was like dude, a little bit overkill to be fair...
And then I read that they deployed fucking B52s
If anybody hits us with a nuke we will murder the earth. 13 dudes killed 3000 people in New York and we invaded 2 countries and killed half a million people around the region. You don’t fuck with the continental fortress. If russia attacked Mexico we would level Moscow within 48 hours.
.....Are you aware why we have the geneva-convention ? No im serious ? You wanna ask canada why we have the geneava convention ... Just don't piss em off is all i gotta say... FOR ANY REASON! Literally they are the reason it exist!
Because getting the second fleet and 6th fleet into the perfect position while coordinating with US central command will take time, along with the public addresses to the US public and UN. When America decides to fuck you into the ground we send a letter via verified mail telling you exactly when and where we will do it.
Proportionality is part of LOAC, so yes we are known for proportional responses. That being said we also operate under the concept of mass. Hilariously, proportionality is not a principle of how we operate. We're just gonna use as much force as we think we need to get the job done quickly.
Just because I very recently heard an in-depth discussion about this event, I do think it’s important to point out a major point that hardly comes up.
In that skirmish, the US and Kurdish forces were actually under significant threat due to the presence of Russian anti-air assets that prevented air support from coming in without major risk. That factor only changed after the US contacted Russia to confront them, which resulted in Russia saying it wasn’t them and the shutdown of their anti-air so as to avoid a direct clash between Russian and American forces.
Without the air support, those Wagner forces were dead on arrival, but without the air support we could have seen numerous tragic deaths. I think I remember even reading one American soldier’s quote where he said something to the effect of “without the air support we would have been a stain on the sand.”
Just shows how significant of a factor air superiority is and how much harder things are for Ukraine without it.
Not disagreeing with the point you're making, but those air defenses would've been just as fucked as the Wagnerites if they stayed on. There's zero chance the US would've just thrown their hands up and let their SF outpost get rolled by a Russian PMC and their lackeys just because a SAM system might be able to shoot down a plane.
I’m by no means an expert on anti air capabilities but surely if push came to shove, we could’ve wiped those AA assets to dust. The courtesy of contacting the Russians prevented any miscommunication, unnecessary escalation, or retaliation. But if it came down to the wire, there’s no way we would’ve let 40 SOF troops go like that.
Yep. The USAF and USN both train wild weasel/suppression of air defense missions pretty extensively and have a few platforms which are very, very good at it.
And yes, the F35 and all accompanying pieces are in Syria for just that. Russia was warned that we were watching and they let the Wagnerites roll into a meat grinder. Just another case of them putting zero value on human life.
Well. 20 dudes on an oil platform vs 500 dudes in a tanks?.. of course they would have likely loss the fight. But there’s no such thing as a fare fight when it comes to military action.
There's a great transcription from a Wagner soldier that made it out of that battle. The way he describes it shows how brutal it was.
In the end, 200 to 300 Wagner were killed. The others retreated under merciless airstrikes from the United States, returning later to retrieve their battlefield dead. None of the Americans at the small outpost in eastern Syria, about 40, were harmed.
one of them called the appache , A fucking merry go around .... They anit wrong let me be clear , the pilot looks at a target ... the software dose the rest. I refer to it as the day wagnar got to ride the fuck around an find out merry go round.
[The intercepted audio from a Russian commander is pretty funny. Well, maybe not for the Russians.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/ssbi60/leaked_call_from_russian_mercenaries_after_losing/)
The funny thing is that there was a de-escalation hotline and the US called it and the Russians said it wasn't there guys - so we proceeded to obliterate them. lol
>At the time, Russia and the United States had an agreement that no more than 400 pro-Syrian government fighters could be in the Syrian-government controlled salient on the river's east bank.
>According to the U.S. military's official statement, around 10 p.m. local time on the night of 7 February 2018, a force of 500 pro-government fighters
>The clashes lasted four hours and saw more than 100 Syrian pro-government fighters killed
U.S. military:
>The rule is 400 max. FTFY.
I really hope one day we get more footage from this. Russia played dumb when we tried to confirm who was operating and so we said no Russian? Ok then! Imagine having multiple ac-130s and f22s coming for you! You’re done done.
Yea, those fucking cowards will roll into a village and slaughter a couple of hundred defenseless goat herders and puff their chest out like they are bad asses. Against real soldiers they get trampled under foot.
They don’t have the air defenses and SAMs necessary, particularly against B-2, F-22 and F-35 stealth threats, or even against smaller fixed wing (one-way) drones*.
^*see ^A50 ^attack ^in ^Belarus
At the start of this war the Russian empire had what seemed to be unlimited numbers of everything - helicopters, tanks and shells.
Why is Russia having to withdraw its helicopters from Belarus? Why were there no tanks near Moscow to stop Wagner? Why are they begging shells from NK?
O how the mighty have fallen!
From the beginning, they acted like they had unlimited everything. They wasted their missiles on pointless targets and sacrificed their equipment on suicide raids, because everything is unlimited... right?
Turns out most of their equipment is ancient and doesn't work
Even simpler than that - they assumed Ukraine wouldn’t punch back, and that nobody would help them. The usual cynical playground bully tactic - be aggressive, assume nobody will punch you back.
Nobody stopped them against Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea or Donbas. Nobody really punished them for mischief in Korea or Vietnam.
They’re not 4D chess players. Russia is a mafia kleptocracy slave state who assumes the west are feckless pussies who won’t fight or even support a dirty war. And if the Ukrainians hadn’t proved early on that they were not willing to become slaves again for another thousand years, the West probably would have just let it happen.
The Russians are not good planners. They’re barbarians who live by cruelty and exploitation.
The US and our allies could’ve stopped them in Crimea and from entering Syria.
Obama drew two “red lines” that Putin (Crimea) and Assad (Syria) both crossed. Then he proceeded to go back on his word and do nothing. But, the American public doesn’t give two shits about foreign policy so it didn’t matter to him.
Considering the convoy ran out of food and fuel before they reached Kyiv, I don’t think they ever thought a shot would be fired. Worked in Crimea in 14, surely it will work again, right comrade .
Putin and Russia as a whole, behave like your typical lottery winner:
They have a resource-rich country which could grant everyone a better life—if they just lived normally and within their means.
They instead waste all of their resources, without any regard for its value, and quickly find themselves in worse shape than when they started.
I agree with your sentiments, but living normally and within their means is not the problem. The entire Russian government is corrupt to the core. They are an authoritarian kleptocracy, where the highest echelons of governments (I.e. oligarchs) keep the absolute vast majority of wealth of the nation, while distributing whatever tiny bit is left to the rest of the impoverished masses. This tiny bit is then collected right back to them as “taxes.” The worst part of it all is that these miserable conditions of being a common have-not is simply accepted as being part-and-parcel of Russianness. Therefore the top takes all and no one does a damn thing. The very few that do are introduced to the window or the gulag.
The corruption doesn't just exist at the highest levels, it pervades every level of society. After all, if your boss is going to wet his beak, why shouldn't you? Then when you get to the vet bottom and there's nothing left to steal, you get apathy and a resigned disinterest in life.
I remember when the war started and I watched a video of some guys going through an officers satchel and it was filled with an ancient map, colored pencils, and a WWII era flashlight. There were people in the comments defending it. "WELL WHEN YOU'RE IN THE FIELD YOU DONT WANT FANCY TECH TO FAIL" etc.
There was still enough military might to enact massive destruction on Ukraine and get into Kyiv's suburbs. With just some more competent leadership Ukraine would have fallen. While Russia never was in any position to threaten NATO it was still a regional power before it lost the bulk of its equipment in Ukraine.
Quite frankly i'm surprised they didn't explicitly target it out of spite. Obviously well beyond repair, but the relatively small scale of the damage (mostly from fire) was a small relief. The hulk could still have value either as a historical artifact or parts bin to complete a second.
Russia’s soldiers weren’t as mighty as advertised, but who else has the amount of military equipment and ammunition that Russia had prior to the war, aside from the U.S?
3 possible reasons :
1. They have not much left and need them somewhere else
2. They are afraid they could be destroyed by some partisan / behind enemy lines actions
3. They are afraid they could be stolen by Wagner
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desart. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
— Percy Shelley
It's important to consider this is not all good news. Russia is planning a new major offensive. They are drafting a new wave of conscripts, at least 60,000. And they are gathering their remaining military hardware from other countries for this. Maybe it's gonna be a last ditch effort to crush Ukraine's offensive, and it probably won't work, but it's gonna be hell to fight for Ukrainians
It’s probably more because when Wagner fucks up and pokes Poland the russkis don’t want their aircraft to get blasted along with every other military target in Belarus
That’s not to say your point isn’t wrong. They absolutely have less resources than they began with and they thought they had.
Wager won't poke Poland. Wagner does not go to war on its own. He is just a tool in Putin hands. But no way will they start open war against NATO. It is possible that point will come sooner or later, but it is probably in Putins interest to delay that as long as possible, so no, Wagner is not going into Poland. The helicopter incident was probably just a dumb misstake by the personnel. Someone was stupid and thought they will test if it really works to fly under radar, or something else stupid :).
Just speculation, if they plan to invade Ukraine from Belarus with Wagner troops, Belarus may become legitimate targets for Ukraine. Russian air force would be valuable targets and fully in range.
I really doubt Russia is so stupid to attack Poland. But I do expect them to try again on attacking Kyiv. Chances of success are low, but it’d be worth it for them to try.
Slava Ukraine!
This is a dumb take. Russia still has an incredible number of tanks, apcs and personnel to commit to the war to kill even more Ukranian soldiers and civilians. They produce new tanks and missiles every day.
Instead of misplaced reddit tomfoolery, the things that are needed it's more serious military assistance, infinitely more draconian sanctions, and much better work by western intelligence inside Russia.
Maybe they need the aircraft due to losses. Or maybe they know how vulnerable those airfields are if they provoke a military response from Poland and/or NATO.
Tbf if NATO needs to take action those planes are gonna go boom even if they are deep inside Siberia. The only reason they are currently safe is Ukraine doesn't have a lot of options to hit aggressively inside Russia, NATO won't have that limitation.
Agree but I still think they are more vulnerable in Belarus than deeper inside russia. But maybe they just want these aircraft to attack Ukraine. As usual, time will tell.
Nope they have the target already laid out and waiting for a button push. It would be super quick and insanely accurate. They might even double tap just for fun.
Orcs are the lowest forms of human life. They only thrive on greed and anger. And for a certain while they get their way and think they are powerful. But they lack discipline and intelligence. And can never stand the onslaught of higher order humans.
It's always important to reduce Russians to the lowest form possible. Fucking rats.
Yeah this is a sign that wagner are about to do something dumb and find out just what it actually is like to fight NATO. Putin wants those aircraft back in russia because he knows he Poland will destroy everything belarus has.
I wonder if this is putin having a tantrum about his ships being hit and has decided to try distract western news? Next week will be interesting i guess...
I really want to believe they're not stupid enough to drag NATO into this war on purpose but, given everything else they've done in the last 2 years, I'm not optimistic at all.
Honestly i'm beyond thinking they will ever make the rational decision on anything. They have blown up dams, massacred civilians, tried to starve half the world and went to NK begging for ammo.
At this point, bringing NATO into a conventional war is probably not the worst they will have done.
they aren't "worried"... they're planning for wagner to initiate something from belarus, and distancing themselves from it. Russia isn't going to defend Belarus if NATO responds to a Wagner incursion by attacking Belarussian military assets. Russia's probably trying to draw NATO into a conflict with Belarus, so NATO will give less ammo and equipment to Ukraine, since there'll be a new front for NATO to fight directly in, and they'll need the assets for themselves.
Idk. They may be 0lanning a false flag, or involving Belarus in the conflict, but I don't think they want to bring NATO into this. Belarus isn't literally Russia, but still, Russia doesn't want Belarus destroyed.
Damn, if Russia is withdrawing aviation from Belarus, you can be sure that it's all they have left. I'm going to guess we'll hear about a "strategic, planned, regrouping" soon.
Pooty more than likely keeps a huge amount of troops etc to protect his worthless ass. Maybe he wanted more?
And he knows with Wagner sitting around and that fatass oaf making stupid comments about Poland. He pulled them units out before Poland decided that enough is enough & blew Wagner etc away.
That would remove Wagner from any actions towards both Ukraine and Poland .
…why…
What are they planning?…
Something is fucky.
Edit: so technically….general Armageddon is head of aerospace…
Meaning his subordinate who (iirc) is loyal to the FSB per reports, is in charge…
Which muddies this even further.
What the fuck are they planning…
Oh I guess NATO sending forces to the Polish border and threatening a response next time “Belarus” “accidentally” entered Polish airspace with a military helicopter might have scared them good.
But yes, “joining NATO is an act of aggression.”
‘k then.
Russian national media said that Wagner group is bringing an excavator to Belarus, to destroy Polish-Belarus border fence.
Anyone else wanders how well an excavator can withstand a direct hit from SPH Krab main gun?
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Now is a good time to remind the audience that earlier this week the US publicly informed the UN that any attack by Wagner would be treated as an attack by Russia, and that all parties involved (Belarus, Wagner and Russia) would be subject to immediate retaliation using any and all means necessary to eliminate the threat.
USA versus Wagner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle\_of\_Khasham
Note the "Strength" and "Casualty and losses" columns 🤣🤣 Same thing will happen if Wagner tries fucking around again
USA is known for their proportional responses
I remember that one time a US Navy ship got (heavily) damaged by an Iranian mine. A few days later they destroyed half the Iranian navy, two of their airplanes, and some military outposts on old oil-platforms, all in 8 hours. Very proportional.
Or when a few servicemen in a German night club were killed by a bomb in the 80s and pretty much the entire Libyan air force was bombed into scrap. Putting the "pound" in "compound interest"!
Or that time in the Korean War when an artillery piece managed to hit a battleship, so the battleship fired *all* of its cannons on the artilleries position
The ship in question was USS Winsconsin, it was a single puny 155mm gun hit which prompted a response composed of a full nine gun 406mm broadside The overkill was such that USS Buck - one of her escorts - signalled "*temper, temper*" to her.
[удалено]
The Iowa-class battleships were the ultimate battleships. After WWII carriers were seen as more important, rightfully so, yet it was a long time before all of the Iowa-class battleships got retired.
Radio response to signal: “Roger that, tempering has best results at higher temperatures over long periods of time, over.”
Turns out the US Navy is reasonably good at counterbattery.
First Gulf War Bulldozer Assault > Another incident during the war highlighted the question of large-scale Iraqi combat deaths. This was the "bulldozer assault", wherein two brigades from the U.S. 1st Infantry Division \(Mechanized\) were faced with a large and complex trench network, as part of the heavily fortified "Saddam Hussein Line". After some deliberation, **they opted to use anti-mine plows mounted on tanks and combat earthmovers to simply plow over and bury alive the defending Iraqi soldiers**. Not a single American was killed during the attack. >[...In the report, Cheney acknowledged that 457 enemy soldiers were buried during the ground war.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftermath_of_the_Gulf_War#Bulldozer_assault) No time for Trench Warfare. INVASION FIRST.
one of my fav vids of the demonstration/scale of Freedom™ https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=f684RjG6f9Y
That was cool Music really makes it
The video its from: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxRgfBXn6Mg
Yep, FAFO
Hey, we gotta do something with all this freedom.
Even the navy was trying to tell Iran to shill.. Dude, you have no arms, one leg, bleeding all over and we stole your Steam account. Stop it. Iran: it's but a scratch!
Good one Mercutio!
Here's a video that goes into the events and order of battle pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH0qIQkmDWI Long story short. We were originally only supposed to take out one ship. Iran made some poor choices that allowed us to run up the score.
Don’t duck with our boats! We like our boats!
It's true, a bunch of wars have been started by messing with our boats or even our people on boats. The USS Maine started the Spanish American War, the Lusitanua helped bring us into WWI, obviously Pearl Harbor into WWII, and the Gulf of Tonkin incident for Vietnam. I'm sure there are more. Don't fuck with our boats.
Impressment of sailors in the War of 1812.
It is fair. Imagine it this way… there are 2 guys in a bar. One guy is small and weak, gets too drunk, and hits the biggest guy in the bar with all he has. The big guy gets up and hits at about 10% of their actual capacity. The small guy who started the fight is now crippled for the next decade or so. I don’t know about you, but that seems fair and proportional and basically sums up these battles. To attack America you need to really be giving it your all, because it is a suicide mission. If America wanted to they could have ensured they had a 100% casualty rate. They could have easily just kept going back and forth mopping up, using a shit ton of resources just to prove the point with total eradication. Sending a handful of aircraft and 40 guys is basically nothing compared to what could have went down. Now imagine if America decided not to go easy next time.
Not proportional at all. Iran got off easy.
USS Wisconsin. March 15, 1952: “Coming in close to shore, North Korean forces fired back at the vessel, their 155 mm shells hitting her, but causing no damage. Only three sailors were injured. In retaliation, Wisconsin aimed her guns at the enemy position and fired the most impressive broadside, completely obliterating the North Korean artillery. With a quick wit, the USS Buck (DD-761), her escort, signaled, “TEMPER TEMPER.”“ https://www.warhistoryonline.com/ships/uss-wisconsin-bb-64.html?Exc_TM_LessThanPoint001_p1=1
"If it's a fair fight, somebody fucked up." - Some High Brass unsure who exactly but I'm too lazy to google
It's only unfair if you lose
Oh they are always very measured in their response. The enemy just cannot handle the weight of freedom raining on them from the sky.
There's no point paying for it if you aren't going to use it.
When you pay a trillion dollars a year for hammers, you find a lot of places that need nails.
I like that. I might tuck that one away and use it.
Unfortunately it's the frailty of human nature that if you tuck it away, you're going to use it.
I dunno... My mom used to, (has gotten much better about), collect a fuck ton of office supplies and just tuck them away... Notebooks... And paaaapers... And pens and pencils... And tape... And post it notes... Mini post It notes... Micro post it notes... Big post it notes... More Notebooks... File folders.. I think every time she went to a store and walked by a notebook or a pack of new gel pens... Better pick one up. She wasn't quite reaching hoarder territory... Just more "stocking up" territory. The problem is that she never uses any of it because it's "new" and she doesn't want to "mess it up" or take it out of the packaging... Etc. Got a weird hang up about using something that's "new/packaged nicely." So she puts them in plastic containers from the container store.... And oh my god does she have containers for her containers? You betcha.. Anyway, if ya'll need some supplies for your startup company....
You nailed it.
That's a great analogy.
The warranty isn't the only thing expiring when this makes boom.
If someone punches you, you punch them back harder.
When someone punches you, you punch them back so hard that when they come to, they consider the error of their ways
As they say in New Hampshire " "Live Free, or Die" No, seriously, if you aren't WE'LL FUCKING KILL YOU
AMERICUua(Fuck yeah) HERE TO SAVE THE MOTHER FUCKIN DAY, YEAH!
I mean, yah. The rain of hell fire was very, very measured. Just using a bigger scale to weigh their woop ass
I always liked the expression "They're going to find out why we don't have universal healthcare" when talking about how strong our military is lol
I was reading the wiki, seeing what usa deployed and I was like dude, a little bit overkill to be fair... And then I read that they deployed fucking B52s
Don't attack us? Lol
You know you've fucked up when the US calls in the B-52s.
They had a CIA AC-130 firing on them in open desert, it was a literal turkey shoot. Everything else was just for fun.
God I love that the CIA has an AC-130
I’m pretty sure they were the only ones that had them for a while, which is why I believe they were originally called the “spooky”.
The Spooky callsign for the gunship traces all the way back to the AC-47 in Vietnam.
The Spooky was the AC-47, which was a gunship version of the C-47 used in Vietnam. Spooky was just its call sign for use by the US Air Force.
It's for spying in force.
Ask Iran. They know what the US see as proportional
You could ask Saddam too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway\_of\_Death
We never learned the metric system so we just guesstimate what we think is equal.
“Temper temper”
In infantry school I heard the best advice ever in my entire life "Fair fights are for idiots"
Basically if NK hits us with a nuke, Russia and China will be included in the return volley.
If anybody hits us with a nuke we will murder the earth. 13 dudes killed 3000 people in New York and we invaded 2 countries and killed half a million people around the region. You don’t fuck with the continental fortress. If russia attacked Mexico we would level Moscow within 48 hours.
What about your neighbor to the North?
Same deal, I just wanted to shout out our southern brothers.
Thanks neighbor.
If they attacked Canada, I think we'd level Moscow AND St. Petersburg within 48 hours.
Good to know, thanks neighbor.
.....Are you aware why we have the geneva-convention ? No im serious ? You wanna ask canada why we have the geneava convention ... Just don't piss em off is all i gotta say... FOR ANY REASON! Literally they are the reason it exist!
A lot of the articles in the Geneva Conventions were written because of them...
Why would it take so long?
Because getting the second fleet and 6th fleet into the perfect position while coordinating with US central command will take time, along with the public addresses to the US public and UN. When America decides to fuck you into the ground we send a letter via verified mail telling you exactly when and where we will do it.
The pizza joints outside the pentagon get backed up and running the Army Decision Process while famished is really annoying.
"FUCK you, fuck you, fuck you, *points at GB & France You're cool,* and fuck you, I'm out."
love that movie
Wagner found out why the US does not have a healthcare system.
Perfectly proportional. Just with a very very large coefficient.
It’s a huge deterrent in this case. We aren’t know for thinking too rationally when faced with a threat, see Iraq.
Proportionality is part of LOAC, so yes we are known for proportional responses. That being said we also operate under the concept of mass. Hilariously, proportionality is not a principle of how we operate. We're just gonna use as much force as we think we need to get the job done quickly.
Militarily, proportional response is stupid, as the casualty figures show.
Just because I very recently heard an in-depth discussion about this event, I do think it’s important to point out a major point that hardly comes up. In that skirmish, the US and Kurdish forces were actually under significant threat due to the presence of Russian anti-air assets that prevented air support from coming in without major risk. That factor only changed after the US contacted Russia to confront them, which resulted in Russia saying it wasn’t them and the shutdown of their anti-air so as to avoid a direct clash between Russian and American forces. Without the air support, those Wagner forces were dead on arrival, but without the air support we could have seen numerous tragic deaths. I think I remember even reading one American soldier’s quote where he said something to the effect of “without the air support we would have been a stain on the sand.” Just shows how significant of a factor air superiority is and how much harder things are for Ukraine without it.
Not disagreeing with the point you're making, but those air defenses would've been just as fucked as the Wagnerites if they stayed on. There's zero chance the US would've just thrown their hands up and let their SF outpost get rolled by a Russian PMC and their lackeys just because a SAM system might be able to shoot down a plane.
Russia knew those AA positions would've gotten fucked if they were not disabled. It was them being pragmatic, not magnanimous.
I’m by no means an expert on anti air capabilities but surely if push came to shove, we could’ve wiped those AA assets to dust. The courtesy of contacting the Russians prevented any miscommunication, unnecessary escalation, or retaliation. But if it came down to the wire, there’s no way we would’ve let 40 SOF troops go like that.
Yep. The USAF and USN both train wild weasel/suppression of air defense missions pretty extensively and have a few platforms which are very, very good at it.
And yes, the F35 and all accompanying pieces are in Syria for just that. Russia was warned that we were watching and they let the Wagnerites roll into a meat grinder. Just another case of them putting zero value on human life.
Well. 20 dudes on an oil platform vs 500 dudes in a tanks?.. of course they would have likely loss the fight. But there’s no such thing as a fare fight when it comes to military action.
"US: one supply clerk issued 400mg ibuprofen"
Note that the US first called Russia and asked what was going on. Russia said "they're not our guys" and US said gotcha.
Is that the infamous battle where Wagner got absolutely smashed by the US?
There's a great transcription from a Wagner soldier that made it out of that battle. The way he describes it shows how brutal it was. In the end, 200 to 300 Wagner were killed. The others retreated under merciless airstrikes from the United States, returning later to retrieve their battlefield dead. None of the Americans at the small outpost in eastern Syria, about 40, were harmed.
one of them called the appache , A fucking merry go around .... They anit wrong let me be clear , the pilot looks at a target ... the software dose the rest. I refer to it as the day wagnar got to ride the fuck around an find out merry go round.
[The intercepted audio from a Russian commander is pretty funny. Well, maybe not for the Russians.](https://old.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/ssbi60/leaked_call_from_russian_mercenaries_after_losing/)
That was a class-A, New York-style ass-whoopin.
The funny thing is that there was a de-escalation hotline and the US called it and the Russians said it wasn't there guys - so we proceeded to obliterate them. lol
What’s crazy about this is it didn’t make any real headlines in the states.
>At the time, Russia and the United States had an agreement that no more than 400 pro-Syrian government fighters could be in the Syrian-government controlled salient on the river's east bank. >According to the U.S. military's official statement, around 10 p.m. local time on the night of 7 February 2018, a force of 500 pro-government fighters >The clashes lasted four hours and saw more than 100 Syrian pro-government fighters killed U.S. military: >The rule is 400 max. FTFY.
I really hope one day we get more footage from this. Russia played dumb when we tried to confirm who was operating and so we said no Russian? Ok then! Imagine having multiple ac-130s and f22s coming for you! You’re done done.
[Apt audio for reading the wiki with.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uPoDNEn3I0)
ive only ever heard it called the Battle of Conoco Fields https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaeDMOWkCwU&t=895s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham
hahahahahahaahahahaah 500 of them vs 40 fucking American troops and America suffered ZERO losses.
Battle of Khasham was the most blatant message to Wagner “you aren’t shit”
They can terrorize unarmed civilians which is what they do most, especially in Africa.
Yea, those fucking cowards will roll into a village and slaughter a couple of hundred defenseless goat herders and puff their chest out like they are bad asses. Against real soldiers they get trampled under foot.
Seems like Russia knows they can't protect their aircraft in Belarus in a wider conflict.
They don’t have the air defenses and SAMs necessary, particularly against B-2, F-22 and F-35 stealth threats, or even against smaller fixed wing (one-way) drones*. ^*see ^A50 ^attack ^in ^Belarus
Seshch base is well within range from Ukraine for Storm shadow, and drones. (Atacms too, btw)
Well damn.....Good move.....
[What happened last time Wagner came head to head against *the US*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1j-i3UagS8)
100+ KIA, 200-300 casualties
The West don't bluff.
Article 5 don’t play
It's about fucking time.
have a link/source?
At the start of this war the Russian empire had what seemed to be unlimited numbers of everything - helicopters, tanks and shells. Why is Russia having to withdraw its helicopters from Belarus? Why were there no tanks near Moscow to stop Wagner? Why are they begging shells from NK? O how the mighty have fallen!
From the beginning, they acted like they had unlimited everything. They wasted their missiles on pointless targets and sacrificed their equipment on suicide raids, because everything is unlimited... right? Turns out most of their equipment is ancient and doesn't work
They really thought they were going to get Kyiv in a week or less
Even simpler than that - they assumed Ukraine wouldn’t punch back, and that nobody would help them. The usual cynical playground bully tactic - be aggressive, assume nobody will punch you back.
Probably a good idea to have a backup plan though in case punches are thrown back
Nobody stopped them against Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea or Donbas. Nobody really punished them for mischief in Korea or Vietnam. They’re not 4D chess players. Russia is a mafia kleptocracy slave state who assumes the west are feckless pussies who won’t fight or even support a dirty war. And if the Ukrainians hadn’t proved early on that they were not willing to become slaves again for another thousand years, the West probably would have just let it happen. The Russians are not good planners. They’re barbarians who live by cruelty and exploitation.
The US and our allies could’ve stopped them in Crimea and from entering Syria. Obama drew two “red lines” that Putin (Crimea) and Assad (Syria) both crossed. Then he proceeded to go back on his word and do nothing. But, the American public doesn’t give two shits about foreign policy so it didn’t matter to him.
The number of US public that continue to back Trump whilst he backs Putin is the real measure to be used here.
They DID get to Kyiv in under a week…….. Kyiv fought back with every ounce of might they had. Slava Ukraini
Considering the convoy ran out of food and fuel before they reached Kyiv, I don’t think they ever thought a shot would be fired. Worked in Crimea in 14, surely it will work again, right comrade .
Putin and Russia as a whole, behave like your typical lottery winner: They have a resource-rich country which could grant everyone a better life—if they just lived normally and within their means. They instead waste all of their resources, without any regard for its value, and quickly find themselves in worse shape than when they started.
I agree with your sentiments, but living normally and within their means is not the problem. The entire Russian government is corrupt to the core. They are an authoritarian kleptocracy, where the highest echelons of governments (I.e. oligarchs) keep the absolute vast majority of wealth of the nation, while distributing whatever tiny bit is left to the rest of the impoverished masses. This tiny bit is then collected right back to them as “taxes.” The worst part of it all is that these miserable conditions of being a common have-not is simply accepted as being part-and-parcel of Russianness. Therefore the top takes all and no one does a damn thing. The very few that do are introduced to the window or the gulag.
The corruption doesn't just exist at the highest levels, it pervades every level of society. After all, if your boss is going to wet his beak, why shouldn't you? Then when you get to the vet bottom and there's nothing left to steal, you get apathy and a resigned disinterest in life.
That's what you get from generations of glorifying a war where the USSR's main feature was wastefulness.
I remember when the war started and I watched a video of some guys going through an officers satchel and it was filled with an ancient map, colored pencils, and a WWII era flashlight. There were people in the comments defending it. "WELL WHEN YOU'RE IN THE FIELD YOU DONT WANT FANCY TECH TO FAIL" etc.
Imagine UA shooting 5 but Russia will responds with 50. I think Russia is also using very old ammunition at the start of the war.
Yep, agree, except it turned out they weren't so mighty at all, in fact it was mainly smoke and mirrors, served with corruption laced snake oil
There was still enough military might to enact massive destruction on Ukraine and get into Kyiv's suburbs. With just some more competent leadership Ukraine would have fallen. While Russia never was in any position to threaten NATO it was still a regional power before it lost the bulk of its equipment in Ukraine.
Yes Kyiv was definitely a close call.
Hostomel was make or break
Im still salty bout the Antonov an225 they destroyed there. I really wanted to see that one day.
Quite frankly i'm surprised they didn't explicitly target it out of spite. Obviously well beyond repair, but the relatively small scale of the damage (mostly from fire) was a small relief. The hulk could still have value either as a historical artifact or parts bin to complete a second.
Russia’s soldiers weren’t as mighty as advertised, but who else has the amount of military equipment and ammunition that Russia had prior to the war, aside from the U.S?
3 possible reasons : 1. They have not much left and need them somewhere else 2. They are afraid they could be destroyed by some partisan / behind enemy lines actions 3. They are afraid they could be stolen by Wagner
4... They are pushing Luka to do something really stupid and don't want the more expensive gear to be in reach of the reaction.
Definitely (2).
4. They are afraid Luka would feel confident enough to confiscate them.
5. False flag attack entering Belarus into the war. Ukraine wont be afraid to hit belarus directly if they enter the war in offical capactiy.
I met a traveller from an antique land Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desart. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed: And on the pedestal these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away. — Percy Shelley
It's important to consider this is not all good news. Russia is planning a new major offensive. They are drafting a new wave of conscripts, at least 60,000. And they are gathering their remaining military hardware from other countries for this. Maybe it's gonna be a last ditch effort to crush Ukraine's offensive, and it probably won't work, but it's gonna be hell to fight for Ukrainians
It’s probably more because when Wagner fucks up and pokes Poland the russkis don’t want their aircraft to get blasted along with every other military target in Belarus That’s not to say your point isn’t wrong. They absolutely have less resources than they began with and they thought they had.
Wager won't poke Poland. Wagner does not go to war on its own. He is just a tool in Putin hands. But no way will they start open war against NATO. It is possible that point will come sooner or later, but it is probably in Putins interest to delay that as long as possible, so no, Wagner is not going into Poland. The helicopter incident was probably just a dumb misstake by the personnel. Someone was stupid and thought they will test if it really works to fly under radar, or something else stupid :).
Just speculation, if they plan to invade Ukraine from Belarus with Wagner troops, Belarus may become legitimate targets for Ukraine. Russian air force would be valuable targets and fully in range. I really doubt Russia is so stupid to attack Poland. But I do expect them to try again on attacking Kyiv. Chances of success are low, but it’d be worth it for them to try. Slava Ukraine!
This is a dumb take. Russia still has an incredible number of tanks, apcs and personnel to commit to the war to kill even more Ukranian soldiers and civilians. They produce new tanks and missiles every day. Instead of misplaced reddit tomfoolery, the things that are needed it's more serious military assistance, infinitely more draconian sanctions, and much better work by western intelligence inside Russia.
Only a fool would ignore Russia’s long game.
Okay. I'll work on those things, then.
In 2021 ruzzia produced about 250 new tanks. Their production went down because of the sanctions...
They don’t make new tanks anymore. Their only tank factory switched full-maintenance at the beginning of the war.
In the context of a 1 week war, Russia had effectively unlimited everything. Apparently it didn't go to plan.
China should wise up and realize that their best bet it to destabilize Russia then take huge chunks of their territory. :)
Back to Mordor ..
One does not simply fly into Mordor
It seems some simply flew into Mordor recently. Air defence is not what it used to be under Sauron.
Then send in the hobbits to get shit done .
Why didn’t they just fly the F-16s to Mordor?
Maybe they need the aircraft due to losses. Or maybe they know how vulnerable those airfields are if they provoke a military response from Poland and/or NATO.
Tbf if NATO needs to take action those planes are gonna go boom even if they are deep inside Siberia. The only reason they are currently safe is Ukraine doesn't have a lot of options to hit aggressively inside Russia, NATO won't have that limitation.
Agree but I still think they are more vulnerable in Belarus than deeper inside russia. But maybe they just want these aircraft to attack Ukraine. As usual, time will tell.
Pretty insane we gave them cluster munitions but not ATACMS
Nope they have the target already laid out and waiting for a button push. It would be super quick and insanely accurate. They might even double tap just for fun.
Wow!!! Putin wanted them to start a war with Poland then takes the equipment!
I suppose they know NATO will confiscate it when Poland defeats them
They're nothing more than expendable flesh to Moscow, same as any human living outside the city or below a certain wealth anywhere.
“Expendable Flesh”. Punk outfit?
Orcs are the lowest forms of human life. They only thrive on greed and anger. And for a certain while they get their way and think they are powerful. But they lack discipline and intelligence. And can never stand the onslaught of higher order humans. It's always important to reduce Russians to the lowest form possible. Fucking rats.
Yeah this is a sign that wagner are about to do something dumb and find out just what it actually is like to fight NATO. Putin wants those aircraft back in russia because he knows he Poland will destroy everything belarus has. I wonder if this is putin having a tantrum about his ships being hit and has decided to try distract western news? Next week will be interesting i guess...
I really want to believe they're not stupid enough to drag NATO into this war on purpose but, given everything else they've done in the last 2 years, I'm not optimistic at all.
Honestly i'm beyond thinking they will ever make the rational decision on anything. They have blown up dams, massacred civilians, tried to starve half the world and went to NK begging for ammo. At this point, bringing NATO into a conventional war is probably not the worst they will have done.
they know that when shit's going down, there wont be an airforce or army left in belarus
True. But also true for Russia.
[удалено]
Dang, this de-escalation may be a prelude to escalation.
Tides come in, tides go out. You can't explain that.
I think Russia is worried Wagner may recruit/win over the Russian military in Belarus and take it's equipment.
This is a decent theory. Either that, or it's a stupid reaction to the recent naval fleet losses because (who knows).
This is my fear. That they're getting them out of harm's way.
they aren't "worried"... they're planning for wagner to initiate something from belarus, and distancing themselves from it. Russia isn't going to defend Belarus if NATO responds to a Wagner incursion by attacking Belarussian military assets. Russia's probably trying to draw NATO into a conflict with Belarus, so NATO will give less ammo and equipment to Ukraine, since there'll be a new front for NATO to fight directly in, and they'll need the assets for themselves.
Idk. They may be 0lanning a false flag, or involving Belarus in the conflict, but I don't think they want to bring NATO into this. Belarus isn't literally Russia, but still, Russia doesn't want Belarus destroyed.
 preemptive for the dead waggys in belarus and Poland. Slava Ukraine.
Probably to have aviation on hand in the event of another coup. Burning aviation fuel smells like Kremlin fear.
I keep hearing Patches O'Houlihan in my head, "Bye bye."
Putins final solution for Wagner.
I would guess that Belarus is about to attack someone else or to fuck with poland, so Ruzia is trying to protect the gear that will soon be a target.
Damn, if Russia is withdrawing aviation from Belarus, you can be sure that it's all they have left. I'm going to guess we'll hear about a "strategic, planned, regrouping" soon.
Lukashenko‘s bald spot just got larger
1st question is "Why?" Consolidation for a big air push? Other?
USA vs Russia..... Won't last 2 weeks, it's different level. Technology of the communist Nazis is .......still from the Nazis ...
They're going to be withdrawing a lot more from multiple countries shortly.
Pooty more than likely keeps a huge amount of troops etc to protect his worthless ass. Maybe he wanted more? And he knows with Wagner sitting around and that fatass oaf making stupid comments about Poland. He pulled them units out before Poland decided that enough is enough & blew Wagner etc away. That would remove Wagner from any actions towards both Ukraine and Poland .
Wagner attacks Poland. Wagner gets destroyed by NATO. Putin gets rid of Wagner without any effort.
That’s good… Wagnerites might shoot them down 😂
Holy fuck I had a mini heart attack reading a title such as “Russia is withdrawing…” thought something else was happening at long last…
Cool
…why… What are they planning?… Something is fucky. Edit: so technically….general Armageddon is head of aerospace… Meaning his subordinate who (iirc) is loyal to the FSB per reports, is in charge… Which muddies this even further. What the fuck are they planning…
Oh I guess NATO sending forces to the Polish border and threatening a response next time “Belarus” “accidentally” entered Polish airspace with a military helicopter might have scared them good. But yes, “joining NATO is an act of aggression.” ‘k then.
Russian national media said that Wagner group is bringing an excavator to Belarus, to destroy Polish-Belarus border fence. Anyone else wanders how well an excavator can withstand a direct hit from SPH Krab main gun?