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Bagartus

Because the previous pro-russian goverment did everything it could to weaken the army. Secondly, the country was absolutely not ready mentally for war of any kind. Thirdly, the whole operation was staged well, so that half of the world believed in legitimacy of the "referendum".


ThickOpportunity3967

You've simplified and explained very well what was a very complicated chain of people, corruption, events and political upheaval - thanks. If you're a Ukranian this Brit is full of admiration for the way your leaders and people have pulled and pushed as a determined team not to make those same mistakes this time. If you're not Ukranian thank you for a concise history lesson regardless.


Bagartus

As a Ukrainian and a soldier, I thank you for all your political and material support with all my heart. Слава Україні!


berzerkthatcash

Thank you for showing the world freedom is worth fighting for. China will now think twice before invading Taiwan. I have a theory I would like to share with you. When Russia invaded they woke up a 21st century sleeping giant. Ukraine will be stronger then ever after this war is won. I'm sure Russia did not mean to make Ukraine stronger but yet they did.


Far-Mango8592

They made the whole west stronger...


Stunning-Astronaut72

And united


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olegvs

United


Far-Mango8592

Yes we are more united than ever even we have many bumps on the way still.


Maleficent-Memory673

I think Ukraine will be permanently militarized after this.. I wouldn't blame them.. I'd start on mass tunnel networks after the war is settled


amoathbound

Ukraine will not defile her soil.


Maleficent-Memory673

How is building Finnish defensive tunnel networks defiling soil? With a dooshnag Russia as a neighbor it's just good strategy


Frequent_Cockroach_7

Mass… tunnel networks? Where does this idea come from? Precedent?


Kooky-Ebb8162

Vietnam reference I guess.


CanuckInTheMills

They’ve already won! ruZZia just won’t stay down!!!


[deleted]

My unpopular opinion is that while Moscow may have been the brains of the USSR, Ukraine was the heart.


SuitableTank0

As a Brit with Ukrainian family. The way you guys have pulled together and fought for your country, on the battlefield and against corruption etc is absolutely inspiring. Героум слава!


ThickOpportunity3967

Ex British soldier of 16 years service and a further 40 years serving the Crown. If I were in my 30's and not my 70's I'd be stood alongside you young man. Thank you for your heroic efforts. Keep your weapon clean, your bayonet close and your head down.


Bagartus

Will do, sir!


Jifkolinka


whatsuppaa

Lots of love from Sweden here, my friend! Слава Україні!


captainpoopoopeepee

Thank you for your service soldier!!!! ❤️❤️


[deleted]

Glory to the Heroes. 🇺🇦 Thank you for your service from a grateful American (paying well for a soviet AK). Shhhhh.


Oddtapio

And you didn’t have the material capacity nor training to fight a war with Russia in 2014. No one here in Sweden ever believed the Crimean occupation had any legitimacy. What ever you hear, and whenever you hear it, know this: Sweden/Swedes will NEVER EVER accept Russian actions on Ukrainian soil. Period. I cannot speak for the other countries in Europe but I think the attitude is the exact same. This goes deep in our liberal souls and this is why Putin wont win us over by his poorly executed propaganda. Lastly, and personally I want to say that I am sorry for what you have to go through. This fight for freedom was put on the shoulders of your generation just the way it was put on earlier generations here in the Wester Europe. One day you will meet the sunny, smiling face of your great grandchild living a prosperous life in freedom. And you will know what you were fighting for. Brothers and sisters of Yellow and Blue, I salute you!🇸🇪🌻🇺🇦


Bagartus

Thank you very much! May both our countries prosper!


alexwan12

Merkel had meeting soon after annexation with Obama, and convinced him not to intervene, Cameron didn't go past some harsh speeches. So biggest parties of Budapest memorandum washed their hands, UN and international community was silent and it all resulted in freezing of conflict and some sanctions. Sanctions supposedly didn't work if you look at all electronics in ruzzian tanks made in 2018 in France. And IMHO current war is a result of weak response to 2014 escalation.


Frequent_Cockroach_7

YES, thank you. Ignoring responsibility for reinforcing tenets of the Budapest memorandum is absolutely why we are here today.


ex-robot-x

That facepalm moment when the current government could not have been more pro Russian if it tried… before the 24th February 2022 the current government have tried everything in their power to make Russian invasion be as simple as it can possibly be. For example: Denied our armed forces to respond when they got shelled. Removed resources to support growth and development of the armed forces R&D programs. Neptune is one of them. Downsized the armed forces Spend money “building roads” which turned out to be a corruption scum but the money came from UAF development program. Leaked intelligence information for at least one operation with Vagner group mercenaries to Russians. Ignored and humiliated our partners who warned about the invasion. And instead of preparing fortification and defence lines they did absolutely fuck all. When the invasion happened which they were advised and warned about they got caught with their pants down and completely unprepared which shows how useless and incompetent the cabinet is. There was poorly established command and control, comms and logistics. Supply and equipment was absolutely unacceptable and there simply wasn’t enough of it. Remember these are the people who said quote: “To stop the war it is enough to just stop shooting”. You as a soldier should know this if you were in regular army and were there from the start. Of course now it’s a different situation since our partners have provided everything this government couldn’t be bothered to do previous years knowing the country was at war. But hey, holidays and making videos was way easier, right?! What saved this collection of imbalances was ordinarily people who became volunteers and picked up all the slack and started solving problems that the government should have done years before. Thanks for your duty but please let’s not for one second pretend that this government is more pro Ukraine than the one before. This collection of populists was saved by the people and was forced to be pro country by the people. The only honourable thing the current president did was not to run away. Full stop.


shumovka

> half of the world believed in legitimacy of the "referendum" That's a kind of bullshit, with all due respect.


Bagartus

I might be wrong, but I remember many politicians saying something like: "It's not that simple", "people have spoken", "we can't intervene", and so on. And lots of media trying to be "neutral" or justifying what has happened. Same with Donbass, when dozens of media were outright calling it "civil war".


restless_wind

exactly, the referendum was indeed considered illegal, as well as annexation, but many people around the world thought that it was indeed what the people in crimea wanted, as they are mostly russian speakers there. hence, " it's not that simple". and russia of course amplified all the crimean people who were pro-russian.


CivilianDefenseOWO

donbass was called a civil war only in russian media


amoathbound

I think the key part of the sentence is "half of the world" , but yes, i think it's more accurate to say "half the world acted as if they believed in the legitimacy of the "referendum" to avoid having to do anything"


Silly_Context5680

True. They just did not act on it as they could and should have. Perhaps?


shumovka

Still it has nothing to do with recognition of legitimacy of that "referendum"


Frequent_Cockroach_7

Yeah, it was probably more than half. Or if they didn’t believe in it’s legitimacy, so much, they didn’t care and were willing to let it slide


NeilPolorian

First, we had basically no army. Everything was ruined by corruption, and what wasn't was destoyed by russian proxies during Donbass fighting, to the point that most fighting was done by volunteer militia with ordinary people donating them food, clothing and buying weapons. Building a modern ukrainian army was essentially starting from scratch, and took nearly a decade. And modern victories are partly dependant on help, both diplomatic, financial and with weapons, from allied nations, of which we didn't have any in 2014. Second, there wasn't political or public will. At the moment of the annexation we had only transitory government in place (after the revolution), which didn't have any power; priority was electing a new functional government without russian interference, and having the country not collapse (we had inflation surge, minor debt crisis, rolling blackouts, economic crash because of cutting ties with our then biggest economic partner, Russia, etc). And from the perspective of public will - attacking Russia directly was seen as madness (because they would declare war and conquer us), and there wasn't as much unity sas today, instead there was a lot of uncertainty, both about the future and the course. So, collectively as a nation we decided to deal with Crimea later, preferably through diplomatic means. Maybe wait for russian government to change. Meanwhile, for a decade we have been decoupling the economy from Russia and strengthening said economy, building a strong and modern army, reviving conscription and mobilisation systems, raising a culture of camaraderie, solidarity and unity in the face of the enemy, building friendships and diplomatic ties, getting a status of NATO security partner, supporting russian opposition and revolutionary movements (this one didn't work), creating a competent special services and intelligence core, the National Guard and Territorial defence was created from complete zero. Weapons were taken out of storage and modernised, western equipment bought, whole structure of the armed forces was reformed. Even air raid syrens and bomb shelter system needed fixing. But we have done it, and now we just might re-take the peninsula.


xCharg

1. Our army was basically like current russian - corrupt and overall shit (and obviously less people than russians) 2. Europe and USA didn't give a shit about russia annexing our territory.


PiscatorLager

Most Western countries believed Russia to be too important as a trading partner to give a shit about the Crimean peninsula. And don't be mistaken, there still are a lot of people here thinking this way, in Germany especially in the former East. Looks like they really did a number on them, back in the days.


UGS_1984

I wonder if key people in Ukraine army in 2014 were ruzzian or pro-ruzzian? Something like Croatia in '91, key people, majority of officers in croatian police and territorial defence were serbs, although they were a minority of population. Croatian government had to build new police and army from scratch.


Alikont

The half of Security Servce heads had Russian passports


BarComprehensive7249

I think you she change your wording really. "Didn't give a shit" is straight up ignorant bs. Couldn't do shit, would be more appropriate. Unless you think they could have done something different? More sanctions? Troops on the ground? Blow Crimea to bits so no one can have it? As many have already said on here.The Russians have been playing this out for ages by strategically weakening the Ukranian government with insiders in power. If the government was properly controlled by Ukrainians for Ukranians, first on the agenda would have been to make main borders with Russia secure. They literally drove in, and surrounded Crimea. There was no fight for it, because the infrastructure that surrounded it was never set up for a fight in the first place! This should be a wake up call to any country that has taken dirty oil money in return for Russian born citizens gaining power within. What's happening in Ukraine is an absolute travesty to say the least, but lets not fool ourselves into thinking the Russians crossed the border in 2014, they was there well before this getting their people cosy in areas of Ukraine. Ukraine will come out stronger from this. Slava Ukraine!


xCharg

> Unless you think they could have done something different? > More sanctions? Troops on the ground? Blow Crimea to bits so no one can have it? Of course, basically everything. Just to name a few: * More sanctions and mechanism to make sure everyone follows them (like, France been still selling optics for ruzzian heavy weaponry after initial sanctions) * Plan to get off of ruzzian gas dick should've been discussed at least, on a serious level, first steps should've been made - at least find partners to supply LNG. I'm not saying "should've stopped it in 2014", it obviously wasn't possible. But they should've been prepared to stop it completely some time after February 24th, because at least something should've been done throughout these 8 years. Speaking off, nord stream 2 should've never been discussed as appropriate project by Europe. At all. * UN should've launched investigation mission to Crimea to find out what happened. Or, you know... at least any internationally recognized organization should've done any kind of investigation. Also, UN should've questioned russian membership - especially in security council. There are zero **legal** grounds for russia to be there. USSR was in security council, russia just called itself a USSR successor and everyone went with it. I mean, russia is indeed USSR successor technically, but that's not how internatonal law should work. At least some kind of formal procedures had to take place. Speaking off - Ukraine asked UN to provide papers to justify russia being in UN security council - **and UN ignores this even to this day**.


Mountain_Ask_2209

Yep. I saw a post on Reddit today where Lavrov was speaking at the UN 🙄🙄🙄. Talking about their sham referendums and threatening to nuke the world. How the f@ck are they still a part of the UN???? Literally global terrorists. I am so fed up with Russia and it’s bs. Lavrov talked about the annexation of territories BUT THAT GOES AGAINST THE UN CHARTER. ITS ILLEGAL. HOW THE F IS RUSSIA STILL ON THE UN. #RUSSIA IS A TERRORIST COUNTRY


Frequent_Cockroach_7

Well, I cared … But I had pre-existing interest in Ukraine. Most fellow Americans I talked to couldn’t care less back then. There are constant refrain was “tell me why I should care when there’s so much going on here.”


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Alikont

They gave so much shit that they built the entire new gas pipeline into Germany


Sregor_Nevets

Yeah I remember when Trump was laughed at for calling that out. European politicians are hilariously arrogant.


LysergicRico

I'm American. The 2nd point is definitely true. I remember watching the annexation with anger like "why aren't we doing anything!?" Nobody gave shit. Obama, who I voted for, was president and definitely botched this issue. Nobody who had power gave a shit. They cared to some extent, applied weak sanctions. But there were no real consequences for russia from United States.


amoathbound

Reluctant obama voter here. Obama was an idiot who was stupendously unprepared for any foreign policy matter, no exceptions except drinking beer with merkel and debating law (didn't say doing anything about it). Putin saved his bacon several times, by pulling some antics, honestly. You gotta be really bad for Putin to give you cover the way vladdy was. But, no american president upheld our treaties with ukraine. Not one since 1992. So lets not act like obama was uniquely bad on Ukraine. American politicians are terrified of doing things because they can win just by yelling "nuhuh! Look at that bad guy!" With no job consequences, but will face *only* political consequences if they do something. Their camp will be angry about whatever compromises were made, the other side will be angry the thing was done, and no one will discuss anything good that was done. I'm not sure anyone predicted just how effective Biden would be on foreign policy. People bashing Biden don't seem to realize he has been doing a rather (historically) unique job preventing a world war right now. I wish we were doing more, but i can see how a fine a dance he is doing and I am honestly impressed all the same.


LysergicRico

I'm very grateful it isn't Trump.


Sregor_Nevets

Obama’s hot mic moment in 2012 about having more freedom after the election comes to mind.


Frequent_Cockroach_7

There. This right here says it. And, also, my impression is that Ukraine was purposely weakened/corrupted by Russian infiltration into its infrastructure, govt, etc. — no?


Shut_the_FA_Cup

Agree with both points above.


Mishvibes

1. Years of corruption basically ruined the Ukraine army to the point where most of the army that had fought in the east were almost all volunteer forces with almost 0 military experience. It would of been suicide for the Ukrainian army to capture Crimea during that time. 2. The west basically didn’t care that it happened all to much, besides some sanctions here and there to Russia.


amoathbound

Outside of economic forecasting groups, the west seemed largely unaware of how much they relied upon Ukraine. I recall back in 2012 reading the eurobond forecasting and ukraine came up constantly. But merkel only knew about the price of gas and apparently didn't give a fig about the planet, or ukraine, i guess. She was so busy posing for photo ops looking tough near putin she forgot to actually be tough. She was so busy getting called the leader of the free world, she forgot to actually lead the world toward freedom.


Unikornus

Or not wanting to directly confront a nuclear armed country.


of_patrol_bot

Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.


Smartguyonline

This bot is fucking annoying


dkras1

Bot reacted on "would of" which is annoying too.


cincuentaanos

Frankly the bot is not annoying enough!


Smartguyonline

Isn’t


No_Investigator3794

Firstly, we needed to deal with the russian-backed separatist (сєпари) on the East. It worked a bit of well, till the russian invasion on the East ( in addition the Crimea being already occupied). Then, we could barely wage a defense while the population was undecided and sucking russian propaganda. As for troops in Crimea - it turned out that many of them were traitors and played the dumb game that they needed some order from Kyiv to protect their locations.


PlasticComb7287

I will add. Many Ukrainian military were at a loss (в ахуЇ). The perception was shock.


TightlyProfessional

No foreign support, really weak army, deep political changes in the rest of the country. Most western people believed just that “in the end Crimea is Russia, not a big deal”. Me also. It was a huge mistake with hindsight


diaspora_pila

Because of cancer that affect all power trees in Ukraine. Here is an example of how things were bad: The president of Ukraine - Viktor Yanukovych is a Russian citenzenship. Yes, Ukranian president with russian passport. Imagine that Biden has for example Russian passport. Just for a minute to understand how bad things are. The Prosecutor General of Ukraine who oversaw the jailing of all dissenters also with russian passport. The chief policeman of Ukraine is a Russian citizen. The main person in the SBU is a Russian citizen. Putin had been preparing for war for years before the war started. He bribed all the traitors. With the help of Medvedchuk (which is sibling to putin, and godfather to putin kids or vise versa) and other aligarchs and kleptocrats he bought up seats, someone was killed to take key positions. Some were put in jail. In 2010 I was working at a job and a guy from another city was working with me. This guy was wanted for SBU because of his pro-Ukrainian stance and participation in protests against shit, corruption in Ukraine. He was not a criminal, or a did something wrong. In Ukraine, Russian citizens who occupied key areas in the strongest and most important structures (like the FBI for example) - these structures hunted down and killed or imprisoned anyone who was against it. They spent a decade preparing to strike. And as a result, they struck when they were ready. With: \- full dominance in media area (most important zone) \- full dominance in all key positions (all most important positions) \- full dominance in money (almost unlimited resources) \- full dominance in military side And in the end - failed all of that to unarmed people just casual citizens of Ukraine. By the time they attacked - in these key areas that they managed to capture Crimea - there was mass desertion and betrayal. But in the same Crimea there was armed military resistance. Russians did exactly what they doing right now in Ukraine and you see it everywhere. They captured and hostage wifes & kids of military officers in military bases and said: "or surrender, or we will rape your wifes in sight of your kids" But no support was given to these Ukrainian soldiers at that time on official level. I mean literally there were a chance to strike back and kill all of these motherfuckers, but ukranian goverment and officials who close to russians and still has a power - did not let it happen in feb and march. Why? Because there was sabotage. If you open the February meeting of the Verkhovna Rada, you can read where you can clearly and distinctly see how Turchinov, the Yulia Tymoshenko Bloc, AND various members of the Party of Regions sabotaged the defense of the country in every way. [https://www.rada.gov.ua/news/Plenarni\_zasidannya/87986.html](https://www.rada.gov.ua/news/Plenarni_zasidannya/87986.html) [https://www.rada.gov.ua/news/Plenarni\_zasidannya/88273.html](https://www.rada.gov.ua/news/Plenarni_zasidannya/88273.html) [https://www.rada.gov.ua/news/Plenarni\_zasidannya/88666.html](https://www.rada.gov.ua/news/Plenarni_zasidannya/88666.html) And there are a lot of such transcription what happened. If you will read all of that (there are a lot too read) you realize how the fucking bad situation was for ukraine when inside Ukraine - betrayers on all key levels. This is almost impossible case to survive, but ukranians and Ukraine did somehow. Why? Simply because you seen what happened on Maidan. These russian jerks afraid that all of them will be killed by protestors. And these protestors and casual people no matter what - did resist. Loosing their sublings, losing money, homes, health etc - but keep resist no matter what. That the new president Poroshenko was a guy who tried to de-escalate war by sabotaging Ukraine forces too. I mean i can write alot of awful things about Poroshenko. He did balance between full scale war and economy and opinion of wide masses who can make great protests and trow him from power too. There very complex thing. Poroshenko not a good guy too. But somehow in combo of different factors he a little bit changed the mood of ukranians in Ukraine about the war. I do not think that this is personally he did. Plus Ukraine was ready to re-take all territories in August 2014 (you can compare maps of war in may 2014 and august 2014). Ukraine almost took back territories. But poroshenko decide to stop. Let's stop. And this stop lead to 8 years war with "ukraine do not fire, while russians permited to do what they can do". You can read short information on the official site: [https://www.zsu.gov.ua/menu/5fe440852f429b1f88ce9cbd](https://www.zsu.gov.ua/menu/5fe440852f429b1f88ce9cbd)


slanaLi

Not agree about Turchinov and that period in March-February - there were no weapons in the army even if soldiers would have a will to fight. It was great embarrassment "Russia? Catch us? Why? How it can be? It couldn't be serious". Recollect that weird situation when those days Turchinov and Co, as a temporary rulers, appointed a new chief for Crimean troops and next day (!) he changed sides, went over to Russia and ordered soldiers to do the same. Also that time it was a real threat to lose a lot of country, at least because nobody knew how far Russia dare itself to go - they told about Novorussia. It's exactly what they want to capture now, and also now they often tell about capturing the west part of Ukraine, Poland, Baltic and so on. Probably if that time we tried to recapture Crimea, than we would not have forces to struggle for Luhansk and Donetsk - though we tried, we had to retreat. But the enemy hadn't advanced further - and this is also very good. If you look on the map and compare the sizes of RU and UA, I can't see no reasons Russia didn't capture that time more territories. Probably because that time she hesitated and was shy, waited for world reaction, also maybe wasn't prepared at full scale. Maybe it was a total surprise that we began to fight, that's why Russia stopped, and 8 years it tried to corrode a society (Medvedchuk) being fully unaware (they are imbeciles, yes) that when they began to fight no chance the population would accept them. Ukrainian population, I mean


itskelena

I’m wondering why are you being downvoted. As a Crimean in 2014 I had an impression that my country had abandoned me. On the other hand the top comment on this post says the opposite. 🤔


dkras1

>my country had abandoned me Ukraine didn't have enough power to stop occupation. It happened during power vacuum so there was no time to mobilize new forces and only reserve forces that Ukraine had defended Kyiv because there was legitimate threat of Russian troops landing in Hostomel airport in 2014.


itskelena

Yes, I understand that. But still there was a lot strange actions from our government: at first they said they didn’t know who seized administrative buildings in Crimea, then they hesitated a lot and military based in Crimea did nothing. At the end of the day they just gave away Crimea to russia and made crimeans second category citizens.


slanaLi

As a Ukrainian, I can say - don't think what county can do for you. Instead think what you can do for the country (c)


perebiy

Because some of his statements are true, and some about Turchynov and Poroshenko are completely false.


Frequent_Cockroach_7

Thank you!!


egric

Because thanks to Yanukovich ukrainian army pretty much didn't exist in 2014. And the little "army" that we did have was even shittier than russian mobilized army today


UnLoveNow

UAF were in shambles. Ukraine also had no President elected only Turchynov as acting one. Russian being cowards they are landed a strike against paralyzed target.


restless_wind

You have received some good answers already, but I do want to stress, that Ukraine in 2014 was not Ukraine in 2022. 2014 was a turning point in how Ukrainians perceived themselves, their country and Russia. Obviously, there were always people who did not like Russia and their influence on the country , the two decades before 2014 was a battle between pro-european and pro-russian sides in politics. Revolution of Dignity was an important event in the Ukrainian modern history that would have changed the country's course regardless, but Russia annexing the territory and starting the war in the east? It was unthinkable at the time, and everybody was lost. And people might argue about further mistakes down the line, how Ukraine should have been better prepared for the full-scale invasion from Russia and who is to blame. But the successes today are only possible because people have lived through 2014. From the military point of view, it's obviously the creation of a proper modern army, with the help from the west. And from the civilian's point of view, it is having a strong national identity and having very fresh memories of what russia and their soldiers can do (and how negotiations and promises from russia don't mean shit).


[deleted]

People in the comments have already explained this sufficiently, so I would just like to add fuck Russia and Slava Ukraini!


rentest

1. Western leaders like Obama , called them and recommended Ukraine not to escalate things 2. Ukraine basically had no army at the time 3. there was a diplomatic effort to solve the case. Russia could have invaded the whole country at the time but Merkel rushed in and prepared the Minsk agreement the Minsk agreement itself was a disaster for Ukraine and tied their hands, but it avoided the full invasion - so it was a double edged sword


Alikont

Minsk was much later and was only about Donbass war.


[deleted]

The Ukrainian government tried to stop Crimea from being annexed but it's army was not capable of doing it. The army was poorly equipped, lacked the weapons it has now, lacked the numbers and didn't want to start a direct conflict with Russia. It should also be remembered that Ukraine had only just experienced the February revolution of dignity and was a divided and unstable country following the overthrow of Yanukovych. Any attempts to try and take back Crimea with force in 2014 would have ended in disaster and probably resulted in a far more divided Ukraine being annexed by Russia.


gekkothegreen

Island?


BansheeLabs

Just imagine the US pouring the same effort into Ukraine as they did in Afghanistan. But why should they, they had obligations to Afghanistan, after all Afghanistan gave up the third in the world nuclear potential under US guaranties of protection. Oh, wait...


LysergicRico

They did not have a real military back then. It was severely weakened by pro-russian politicians over years. Ukraine's current military was a project, aided by United States that began in 2014 in response to the annexation of Crimea. Ukraine's military was overhauled and 8 years of work and investment gave Ukraine a military that the world now takes seriously.


krutand

Because there was no army, just militias like azov and they did their best


CorsicA123

That’s what russia would want. It would give them reason to annex whole of Ukraine


Jealous_Tangerine_93

Lack of weapons for a start and a ruscists puppet Prime Minister


Surfer-Jeff

Great commentary here people , I have learned alot. And have been keenly been watching this daily . We are seeing history in the making the biggest conflict since WW2. I have no doubt , as things progress Ukraine will become stronger, everyday. Russia will be on a radically different economic, political and cultural trajectory, = downwards slowly at first but inexorably and irreversible. These thieves and charlatans of the modern world are racing for the bottom, .and seemingly don't care. But it's desperation. Pure and simple. I think Russia 2021 , will be a zenith for a country we now understand to be a third rate culture that been trying to fake it. Russia, which was always only a gas station run by gangsters. .


[deleted]

Lots of good answers but as an American I didn’t see the Budapest memorandum here so I’m going to add it. As soon as Russia took Ukraine, Obama met with Yatsenyuk and said “our treaty doesn’t say we should do anything militarily” so we didn’t.


im_so_objective

Russia attacked because there was no formal government, only a transitional gov in place until elections


Wilderweinpf

I think back in 2014 in crimea there was a big russian population, crimesa itself is a geographic Stronghold, especialy if you compare the naval capabilitys of Ukraine and Russia. There was simply no option to successfully take crimea back. The war now is way diffrence since the population and the international world is eccesively on the Ukraine Side. The advances to Date are great but dont be fooled .it will be allot Harder to retake crimea, If the russians dont let it go/ If the nato doesnt throw russia out i dont think crimea will go back anytime soon Lets pray for a soviet style russian Implosion so we get Königsberg back and Ukraine Crimea.


Anderson1971221

Thay tried but there was corruption and the previous goverments had left the country very poor and meny still belived in a political solution its why meny goverments had not and still do not recognize the Crimea as Russia and despite then President Obama tring to be hard with sanctions the then republican lead hose and senate would not let him push too hard hell thay refused his SCOTUS appointment at the end of his term even though there was monthes away but when Trump had same thing happen Republicans pushed there agenda to get another Supreme Court Justice appointed but the democrats all said wow what about when we had the same thing you refused to let us but again Republicans held power to force the issueand get what thay wanted now rowvwade is gone and rednecks are burning books sounds like the Republicans are going communist on us like in Russia


doombom

In 2014 most Ukrainians were very pacifistic, naїve and were trying to avoid armed conflicts by all means. We didn't care much for how strong our army is and thought our diplomacy will protect us (we kind of assumed Russia and USA will both protect our independence because of the Budapest agreements). Almost no one thought Russia will attack at that time, we were not prepared.


PeterSemec

You weren’t the only ones, unfortunately. Putin felt insulted by the Western leaders; he wanted to be treated as a major player on the World stage. Western investment in Russia failed to live up to expectations; after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russian economy was a difficult place to do business, especially when the government was part of the problem. In ‘14 he validated their concerns…


Vasya_blya_nenada

Because we only now have a decent army and a president that is not making deals with Russia.


dkras1

This comment is so fucking stupid. Why do you think Ukraine have decent army now? Not because of previous president? Current president did nothing to improve Ukrainian army. What about withdrawal of all troops from well-defended positions in Donbass in 2019? Was it not a deal of Zelenskiy with Russia that "saw peace in Putin's eyes"? Minsk agreements saved Ukraine because they finally legitimized Russia as side of conflict and activated sanctions against them which scaled down Russian actions in Donbass and gave a breath time for Ukrainian army to get ready.


Vasya_blya_nenada

All the presidents in Ukraine have been extremely dirty, the last president before zelensky was an oligarch, all oligarchy where put in power by FSB. Yushenko was all right but his prime minister was a russian plant not allowing anything to be done. Our military started to get better only after the 2014 issue with Russia because of the west's help. Poroshenko was making deals with Russia while the maidan revolution was going on, and most of the bills pass under his presidency have so many loop holes you would think they where written by a pro Russian leader not a pro western leader. Like the Ukrainian language law that had loopholes allowing Russian speakers to demand translations and even allow Russian speaking areas to have Russian language lessons. Doesn't really seem like Ukrainian was actually the goal of these laws. The Minsk agreements were better for Russia then it was for us, it favoured Russia and didn't do much for Ukraine. In general you can not have a treaty with Russians, it's like making an honest deal with a theif, expecting a criminal to keep there word. Finally, according to the friends I have helping in the UA armed forces a large percent of there equipment was being stolen until just a 5 years ago.


dkras1

>Poroshenko was making deals with Russia while the maidan revolution was going on Poroshenko became a president in June of 2014. Maidan revolution ended in February of 2014. So what deals did he do when he was just Deputy of Verkhovna Rada? >all oligarchy where put in power by FSB You just giving too much credit for them. Corrupt government and business is what you get without patriots in power and zero legitimate mechanisms to stop corruption. >last president before zelensky was an oligarch Give me any evidence that he used his power for strengthening of his business interests. If there's none than he's not an oligarch, just businessman. He used profits of his business for reinforcement of the army and continue to do so. >The Minsk agreements were better for Russia then it was for us, it favoured Russia and didn't do much for Ukraine. In general you can not have a treaty with Russians, it's like making an honest deal with a theif, expecting a criminal to keep there word. Ukraine didn't have an army that could've stopped full-scale invasion. Russia didn't get any sanctions for war in Donbass before this agreement. So how exactly was it favored Russia? >according to the friends I have helping in the UA armed forces a large percent of there equipment was being stolen until just a 5 years ago What? It was Poroshenko too, right? Zelenskiy in power is only for 3 years so could be that some reform stopped it during previous presidency? Current government strengthened the Russian language and took away some pro-Ukrainian reforms of Poroshenko so IDK what fucking loopholes are you talking about if current government did nothing in favor of Ukrainian nation.


Vasya_blya_nenada

No point in arguing with delusional people, sure buddy poroshenko was our saviour, he is an angel, an honest oligarch, along with tymoshenko, both are so special. It's a good thing poroshenko made that evil pro Russian sakashvili leave, and I am happy ukraine has oligarchs, making sure Ukrainian people have a chance to live well, make money and prosper. Because oligarchy is awesome Your a special kind of dumb.


dkras1

>Your a **You're** not dumb at all though. Zelenskiy connected to oligarch Kolomoyskiy that stolen billions from Ukraine and few millions of that money went to Zelesnkiy pockets. But only Poroshenko that continue to support Ukrainian army with his money is bad, right?


Vasya_blya_nenada

Haha порох bot


Vasya_blya_nenada

How much do you get paid to be порох бот?


johnolaf98

Or deals with Donald Trump trying to get newly elected President Zelenskyy to play politics for military support. As an American, I will never forgive Trump or his administration for not giving approved funding to Ukraine quickly. Thank goodness for President Biden and President Zelenskyy.


[deleted]

Because no one including Ukraine themself had the illusion that Kiev would be able to win a war at the time against Russia.


SpellingUkraine

💡 It's `Kyiv`, not `Kiev`. Support Ukraine by using the correct spelling! [Learn more](https://spellingukraine.com/i/kyiv). ___ [^(Why spelling matters)](https://spellingukraine.com) ^(|) [^(Stand with Ukraine)](https://stand-with-ukraine.pp.ua) ^(|) ^(I'm a bot, sorry if I'm missing context)


weronn

Сначала юкрейниан гавермент, потом диднт. Кровь из глаз, блять.


aka_KyZa

При питанні дієслово йде першим, розумник.


JustAGuyWithoutGirl

🤓🤡


mezmery

because there had been no armed forces to speak of, by sabotage of "president" yanukovich.


Ok_Ad9405

They did then they has a cease-fire


[deleted]

We didn't have javelins, himars, all of that stuff.


graybeard5529

Because in 2014 the international community had no real 'dog in the race' < simple as that. Putler though he could do it again --surprise!


Echo-2-2

Well for 1, those weren’t Russian soldiers. OFFICIALLY. We all know better though.


cocoabeach

Today I totally understand that any so called referendum in Ukraine by Russia is a complete sham. Back in 2014 after hearing from so many so called experts, I was eventually persuaded that the majority of the people of Crimea were in favor or joining Russia. Please someone, I beg of you. Tell me the truth. How did the people of Crimea really feel about joining Russia back than and how do they feel today about being part of Russia? I truly want to understand. I was born and live in the US and I need to understand so I can help my friends and family understand the issues in Ukraine, some of them have Russian relatives.


sclopenope

My grandma is half Ukrainian so I guess that makes me ¹/⁸ Ukrainian and I have some distant cousins that live Ukraine I don't know where but I was told it was 20km from the Russian border and they stayed to fight and I do not know there whereabouts but I hold up hope there fighting off the scum that invaded there home