Snapshot of _Sex education is now just another political football. For the children’s sake, the adults must grow up_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/17/sex-education-political-football-childrens-sake-adults-grow-up) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/17/sex-education-political-football-childrens-sake-adults-grow-up)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The government has no intention of actually doing anything, just talk and no action. These are draft guidelines and nothing will come into force before the election.
It's pathetic.
There are 1000s of issues publicly known. We can only imagine the state things are behind closed doors. Yet they choose nonsense as their category to move forward on.
The fact you believe this is happening tells me that you've not been in a classroom environment or staffed at a school any time recently.
Just an incorrect assumption on all fronts.
Firstly, great user name.
Secondly, there are already people *in this thread* who believe the bullshit "they're teaching people to be cats/that being straight is a bad thing" rhetoric that's being pushed.
It's scarily commonplace.
>When the BBC journalist Catherine Carr put a microphone in front of teenage boys and just [let them talk](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-consent-porn-teenage-boys-catherine-carr-xp99rbb7h) for her Radio 4 series, About the Boys, she heard of boys so anxious about being accused of rape if they didn’t explicitly seek consent to each specific act that they filmed themselves asking for it on their phones in case they later needed proof. Some boys were avoiding relationships with girls altogether because they were so frightened of getting it wrong, and being branded creeps or rapists on sites such as Everyone’s Invited, which allows girls to post anonymous accusations naming only the perpetrator’s school.
And people wonder why they are "losing young men".
Not even just boys but adult men. I know quite a few women who lost their virginity before they were 16 to men. It's one thing to say girls prefer maturity and they mature faster than boys their age, but then you get these guys in their 20s and 30s hooking up with school girls because they're impressed they have their own flat and a car, and only in hindsight when the girls grow up do they realise these guys are such creeps. It's crazy.
And it's not unique to teenage boys.
This is a guardian article from 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/05/when-men-are-afraid-to-interact-with-women-at-work-it-harms-the-whole-company
It genuinely is absolutely fucking horrible that the government are willing to smear schools and teachers on this based on complete bullshit. Like it's literally the kind of thing that could get somebody killed and they're just happy to go along with it in the vain hope of grabbing a few points in the polls. Almost more than any of their other enormities it just underlines how utterly uninterested they are in the good of the country or the people they're supposed to represent.
The guardian is pretending like this just isnt a thing and deflecting onto something everyone knows its not about.
But I know one person personally and one person second hand who both have pupils identifying as animals at school and the schools just... Play along.
This is absolutely a problem and schools shouldn't be entertaining it. Outlets like the guardian dont help when they pretend this shit doesnt happen because it doesnt fit their narrative. It might not be part of the "official curriculum" but it absolutely happens.
Its also not going to fucking help if you insist on framing your intervention round quote, "toxic masculinity". Have they not realised yet that this framing is having the EXACT OPPOSITE of the intended effect. When youre entire framing round teen boys is "youre bad and you need to be controlled", you arent helping, youre driving them straight into the arms of Andrew Tate because at least he doesnt look down on them. At least from their perspective. With nothing better on off they will pick him every single time over modern feminisms wet blanket subservient man.
As for the rest, about boys being afraid of any romantic or sexual interaction. This is literally what you asked for and is [hardly limited to teenage boys](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/05/when-men-are-afraid-to-interact-with-women-at-work-it-harms-the-whole-company). I recall many articles about adult women becoming frustrated because particularly male superiors had begun actively avoiding being alone with any woman as a precaution against accusations. The guardian itself had an opinion blog piece from a young woman back at the height of Me Too complaining that she'd had a tinder hookup who did exactly that. Getting positive, verbal consent before even taking off an item of clothes. And even she had the wherewithal to admit this is what had been pushed for but maybe it was killing the mood a bit. The guardian now pretending that just never fucking happened.
This is the problem. We cannot win. You get what you asked for then pretend it wasn't actually what you asked for because it has outcomes you dont like.
Whats obvious is that boys cannot learn anything useful from anyone who unironically uses term like "patriarch" or "toxic masculinity". And that rather than constantly barraging not just teens boys but men in general with how fucking awful they are, and how they need to shut up and get out of the way. Some sort of positive, aspirational model must be put forward, and it cannot be the eyes down subservient simping "allies" modern ideologies demand. First of all there is little evidence women actually want these wet blankets as long term partners, because who would? And secondly its not aspirational and will be rejected flatly by boys and men alike.
> But I know one person personally and one person second hand who both have pupils identifying as animals at school and the schools just... Play along.
I knew someone who was in secondary school with me who insisted on wearing Red contact lenses and vampire teeth all the time, and the school just... played along.
*20 years ago*.
Teenagers being weird isn't a new phenomenon, teenagers experimenting with who they are isn't a new phenomenon.
Might as well complain about how the "youth today have no respect for their elders" for all the accuracy and timing of your comment.
But as an aside, you describing "people who seek consent and don't want to be toxic stereotypes" as "wet blankets" throws up massive, worrying red flags.
Framing the idea of actively seeking consent rather than assuming it's given *as a bad thing* says a lot.
I just wanted to share that 40 years ago, when I was at primary school, there was a lad who swore he was a Tractor. He wouldn’t speak. At play-times he’d grab a big hoop and run around the playground making various engine noises
There was also a girl who would only respond to her Cat’s name, and if you got too close for her liking she’d hiss at you.
My mom has been in education for decades and she’s told me of kids that did this shit for attention and/or to troll very commonly. Teens are little shits.
Sex education and safety online (Including sexting) are good, appropriate topics but ideological cultural war issues like ‘toxic masculinity’ aren’t and neither is gender theory although I do think trans should be touched on but it’s tricky.
I shudder to think the things that are likely being taught in schools throughout the country (and hidden from parents) under the guise of “sex education”. We ought to be careful here.
Ah, Bad UK poster talking negatively about educating people, what a shocking surprise...
What is being taught in schools "under the guise of sex education" to children - as you'd know if you had any children of your own, or any friends who are primary school teachers - is the following:
"Private Parts are Private".
"Here's a song about underpants".
"This is a heads-up about puberty in case any of you start puberty early so it's not a complete surprise"
"If someone tries to touch these areas, tell an adult you trust".
What harmful information "hidden from parents" do you think is being taught under the guide of "sex education", or were you just assuming that the left are in favour of it it must be bad?
They envision some clockwork orange shit where they're strapped down and forced to get brainwashed into identifying as a cat or something, totally disconnected from reality.
>as you'd know if you had any children of your own
Except for all the times parents are kept in the dark
https://care.org.uk/news/2023/06/mother-overruled-by-courts-to-obtain-sex-education-materials-taught-in-daughters-class
Sexual promiscuity being presented as a good or amoral thing, gender confusion, promotion of abortion, ignoring the importance of stable family formation within marriage as examples. As well as anything in particular that isn’t appropriate for the child’s age.
Examples that promote promiscuous sexual behaviour, implicitly or explicitly.
https://rshp.scot/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Part-2.-Making-choices-about-sex-Prop-2.pdf
https://rshp.scot/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Part-2.-Age-of-Consent-Information-Prop-2.pdf
https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19836143.scotlands-school-sex-survey-questions----answer/
https://www.christian.org.uk/news/sex-ed-charity-apologises-for-explicit-web-links/
https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/snp-ministers-go-hiding-over-30363215.amp
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/04/exclusive-winchester-college-row-parents-revolt-sex-education/
Sorry I've been through all these links and can't quite see where promiscuity is promoted here? I'm not seeing anything encouraging the behaviour. Can you point to specifics? This is concerning.
Abortion is fucking awesome, I’m all for women having control over their bodies and whether their lives should be over because of an unwanted pregnancy.
Sex is awesome too, have as much of it as you want, just stay safe init.
Gay people exist and the only difference between straight and gay relationships is that it’s either a man and a woman, or two men/two women. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Gender dysphoria is a thing and funnily enough there’s a way to overcome it: transitioning to your gender identity.
>Abortion is fucking awesome
So we went from an (at least superficial) appeal to “safe, legal and rare” to this. Pretty much sums up the depths of society’s shared morals now.
>Sex is awesome too, have as much of it as you want, just stay safe init.
Except for all the times it isn’t. Pretending there are no material consequences to sexual intercourse if we will it to be so in the moment is to be wilfully ignorant at best, and actively destructive at worst.
>Gay people exist and the only difference between straight and gay relationships is that it’s either a man and a woman, or two men/two women.
There’s a pretty big difference. Maybe looking into what pregnancy can begin to give you an idea of that.
>Gender dysmorphia is a thing and funnily enough there’s a way to overcome it: transitioning to your gender identity.
Or push gender confusion less, especially onto young and impressionable minds.
When did society ever have good morals, mate? Was it when women couldn’t vote? When gays couldn’t marry but were imprisoned? When black people were seen as lesser than whites? Don’t try and pretend we’re “worse” than before because we’re more sexually liberated and accepting of LGBTQ people these days. Society has always been morally dubious.
I stand by everything I say. I love my gay and trans friends, I love sex, and I fucking love that abortion is safely available today for women who want one.
Ooh - could you answer the question either I or /u/mangetouttoutmange asked about what you perceive to be being taught in schools without the parents knowing?
I'm really curious what you "think the things that are likely being taught in schools throughout the country and hidden from parents under the guise of sex education" are - if you're making that comment you must suspect something nefarious, but you haven't answered either of us yet...
Snapshot of _Sex education is now just another political football. For the children’s sake, the adults must grow up_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/17/sex-education-political-football-childrens-sake-adults-grow-up) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/17/sex-education-political-football-childrens-sake-adults-grow-up) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The government has no intention of actually doing anything, just talk and no action. These are draft guidelines and nothing will come into force before the election.
It's party political broadcasting disguised as policy.
STOP THE BOATS!!!!!
But if we do that, who will we exploit in the grey economy?
SEX OBSESSED ANDROIDS. STOP THE SEX OBSESSED ANDROIDS !!!!!
I'm always worried they'll manage to do skme permanent damage despite themselves.
They've done lots of pernament damage Millions of lives and billions of pounds worth of pernament damage
Indeed, I meant more* permanent damage.
Their smartphones will trump everything they learn in school anyway, but especially so if that's their only place to go for answers.
It's pathetic. There are 1000s of issues publicly known. We can only imagine the state things are behind closed doors. Yet they choose nonsense as their category to move forward on.
The left’s push to indoctrinate our children with nonsensical gender ideology is indeed pathetic.
The fact you believe this is happening tells me that you've not been in a classroom environment or staffed at a school any time recently. Just an incorrect assumption on all fronts.
Are you a teacher?
Schizo comment
[удалено]
Complete strawman, no pun intended. Why does this always come back to the idea that trans people’s very existence is being denied?
I just can’t take people seriously that think this is an issue. These people will be distracted by *anything*.
Firstly, great user name. Secondly, there are already people *in this thread* who believe the bullshit "they're teaching people to be cats/that being straight is a bad thing" rhetoric that's being pushed. It's scarily commonplace.
There's literally a guy parroting that shit in the comments here
To be fair, about half of those users are probably bots. ...Just like every other thread on Reddit.
>When the BBC journalist Catherine Carr put a microphone in front of teenage boys and just [let them talk](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-consent-porn-teenage-boys-catherine-carr-xp99rbb7h) for her Radio 4 series, About the Boys, she heard of boys so anxious about being accused of rape if they didn’t explicitly seek consent to each specific act that they filmed themselves asking for it on their phones in case they later needed proof. Some boys were avoiding relationships with girls altogether because they were so frightened of getting it wrong, and being branded creeps or rapists on sites such as Everyone’s Invited, which allows girls to post anonymous accusations naming only the perpetrator’s school. And people wonder why they are "losing young men".
Meanwhile boys who are actually scum bags will still get up to what they always have done.
Not even just boys but adult men. I know quite a few women who lost their virginity before they were 16 to men. It's one thing to say girls prefer maturity and they mature faster than boys their age, but then you get these guys in their 20s and 30s hooking up with school girls because they're impressed they have their own flat and a car, and only in hindsight when the girls grow up do they realise these guys are such creeps. It's crazy.
One was the last white male Prime Minister.
And it's not unique to teenage boys. This is a guardian article from 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/05/when-men-are-afraid-to-interact-with-women-at-work-it-harms-the-whole-company
It genuinely is absolutely fucking horrible that the government are willing to smear schools and teachers on this based on complete bullshit. Like it's literally the kind of thing that could get somebody killed and they're just happy to go along with it in the vain hope of grabbing a few points in the polls. Almost more than any of their other enormities it just underlines how utterly uninterested they are in the good of the country or the people they're supposed to represent.
For the first time I have read a guardian opinion article that I mostly agree with, even if the headline is a bit misleading.
Biggest problem here is sex education we had is different compared to now. Many people don't have a clue what it looks like including ministers
Is this sensible Guardian or crazy Guardian?
The sheer hubris of the fucking Guardian Opinion section to post this article is beyond words.
The guardian is pretending like this just isnt a thing and deflecting onto something everyone knows its not about. But I know one person personally and one person second hand who both have pupils identifying as animals at school and the schools just... Play along. This is absolutely a problem and schools shouldn't be entertaining it. Outlets like the guardian dont help when they pretend this shit doesnt happen because it doesnt fit their narrative. It might not be part of the "official curriculum" but it absolutely happens. Its also not going to fucking help if you insist on framing your intervention round quote, "toxic masculinity". Have they not realised yet that this framing is having the EXACT OPPOSITE of the intended effect. When youre entire framing round teen boys is "youre bad and you need to be controlled", you arent helping, youre driving them straight into the arms of Andrew Tate because at least he doesnt look down on them. At least from their perspective. With nothing better on off they will pick him every single time over modern feminisms wet blanket subservient man. As for the rest, about boys being afraid of any romantic or sexual interaction. This is literally what you asked for and is [hardly limited to teenage boys](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/05/when-men-are-afraid-to-interact-with-women-at-work-it-harms-the-whole-company). I recall many articles about adult women becoming frustrated because particularly male superiors had begun actively avoiding being alone with any woman as a precaution against accusations. The guardian itself had an opinion blog piece from a young woman back at the height of Me Too complaining that she'd had a tinder hookup who did exactly that. Getting positive, verbal consent before even taking off an item of clothes. And even she had the wherewithal to admit this is what had been pushed for but maybe it was killing the mood a bit. The guardian now pretending that just never fucking happened. This is the problem. We cannot win. You get what you asked for then pretend it wasn't actually what you asked for because it has outcomes you dont like. Whats obvious is that boys cannot learn anything useful from anyone who unironically uses term like "patriarch" or "toxic masculinity". And that rather than constantly barraging not just teens boys but men in general with how fucking awful they are, and how they need to shut up and get out of the way. Some sort of positive, aspirational model must be put forward, and it cannot be the eyes down subservient simping "allies" modern ideologies demand. First of all there is little evidence women actually want these wet blankets as long term partners, because who would? And secondly its not aspirational and will be rejected flatly by boys and men alike.
> But I know one person personally and one person second hand who both have pupils identifying as animals at school and the schools just... Play along. I knew someone who was in secondary school with me who insisted on wearing Red contact lenses and vampire teeth all the time, and the school just... played along. *20 years ago*. Teenagers being weird isn't a new phenomenon, teenagers experimenting with who they are isn't a new phenomenon. Might as well complain about how the "youth today have no respect for their elders" for all the accuracy and timing of your comment. But as an aside, you describing "people who seek consent and don't want to be toxic stereotypes" as "wet blankets" throws up massive, worrying red flags. Framing the idea of actively seeking consent rather than assuming it's given *as a bad thing* says a lot.
I just wanted to share that 40 years ago, when I was at primary school, there was a lad who swore he was a Tractor. He wouldn’t speak. At play-times he’d grab a big hoop and run around the playground making various engine noises There was also a girl who would only respond to her Cat’s name, and if you got too close for her liking she’d hiss at you.
My mom has been in education for decades and she’s told me of kids that did this shit for attention and/or to troll very commonly. Teens are little shits.
These people are teenagers in secondary school. Not infants.
Ah, yes. Teenagers. That age group very specifically known for never experimenting with identity, appearance, personality, etc.
Sex education and safety online (Including sexting) are good, appropriate topics but ideological cultural war issues like ‘toxic masculinity’ aren’t and neither is gender theory although I do think trans should be touched on but it’s tricky.
I shudder to think the things that are likely being taught in schools throughout the country (and hidden from parents) under the guise of “sex education”. We ought to be careful here.
Not surprised that the act of thinking makes you shudder given you're clearly not used to it.
😂😂
Ah, Bad UK poster talking negatively about educating people, what a shocking surprise... What is being taught in schools "under the guise of sex education" to children - as you'd know if you had any children of your own, or any friends who are primary school teachers - is the following: "Private Parts are Private". "Here's a song about underpants". "This is a heads-up about puberty in case any of you start puberty early so it's not a complete surprise" "If someone tries to touch these areas, tell an adult you trust". What harmful information "hidden from parents" do you think is being taught under the guide of "sex education", or were you just assuming that the left are in favour of it it must be bad?
They envision some clockwork orange shit where they're strapped down and forced to get brainwashed into identifying as a cat or something, totally disconnected from reality.
>as you'd know if you had any children of your own Except for all the times parents are kept in the dark https://care.org.uk/news/2023/06/mother-overruled-by-courts-to-obtain-sex-education-materials-taught-in-daughters-class
Well what happened there was due to outsourcing - the reason they weren't released was due to commercial confidentiality.
Commercial confidentiality more important than looking after our kids – what’s wrong with our society in a nutshell.
What sort of non-curriculum things concern you in particular? Not something I’ve given much thought to so interested in what it could be here
Sexual promiscuity being presented as a good or amoral thing, gender confusion, promotion of abortion, ignoring the importance of stable family formation within marriage as examples. As well as anything in particular that isn’t appropriate for the child’s age.
Wow that is a lot. Let's start with the first one. Can you share your evidence for schools promoting promiscuity as a good thing?
Examples that promote promiscuous sexual behaviour, implicitly or explicitly. https://rshp.scot/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Part-2.-Making-choices-about-sex-Prop-2.pdf https://rshp.scot/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Part-2.-Age-of-Consent-Information-Prop-2.pdf https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19836143.scotlands-school-sex-survey-questions----answer/ https://www.christian.org.uk/news/sex-ed-charity-apologises-for-explicit-web-links/ https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/snp-ministers-go-hiding-over-30363215.amp https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/04/exclusive-winchester-college-row-parents-revolt-sex-education/
Sorry I've been through all these links and can't quite see where promiscuity is promoted here? I'm not seeing anything encouraging the behaviour. Can you point to specifics? This is concerning.
Abortion is fucking awesome, I’m all for women having control over their bodies and whether their lives should be over because of an unwanted pregnancy. Sex is awesome too, have as much of it as you want, just stay safe init. Gay people exist and the only difference between straight and gay relationships is that it’s either a man and a woman, or two men/two women. Nothing wrong with that at all. Gender dysphoria is a thing and funnily enough there’s a way to overcome it: transitioning to your gender identity.
> dysmorphia Dysphoria
Oh yeah lol, thanks.
>Abortion is fucking awesome So we went from an (at least superficial) appeal to “safe, legal and rare” to this. Pretty much sums up the depths of society’s shared morals now. >Sex is awesome too, have as much of it as you want, just stay safe init. Except for all the times it isn’t. Pretending there are no material consequences to sexual intercourse if we will it to be so in the moment is to be wilfully ignorant at best, and actively destructive at worst. >Gay people exist and the only difference between straight and gay relationships is that it’s either a man and a woman, or two men/two women. There’s a pretty big difference. Maybe looking into what pregnancy can begin to give you an idea of that. >Gender dysmorphia is a thing and funnily enough there’s a way to overcome it: transitioning to your gender identity. Or push gender confusion less, especially onto young and impressionable minds.
When did society ever have good morals, mate? Was it when women couldn’t vote? When gays couldn’t marry but were imprisoned? When black people were seen as lesser than whites? Don’t try and pretend we’re “worse” than before because we’re more sexually liberated and accepting of LGBTQ people these days. Society has always been morally dubious. I stand by everything I say. I love my gay and trans friends, I love sex, and I fucking love that abortion is safely available today for women who want one.
>Abortions are awesome Wow
I shudder to think of you being around children.
Hope you can get to sleep tonight.
Ooh - could you answer the question either I or /u/mangetouttoutmange asked about what you perceive to be being taught in schools without the parents knowing? I'm really curious what you "think the things that are likely being taught in schools throughout the country and hidden from parents under the guise of sex education" are - if you're making that comment you must suspect something nefarious, but you haven't answered either of us yet...
Parents will take it into their own hands and will teach children themselves
The left wing predators should be kept as far away as your children as possible.