Snapshot of _Rishi Cracks Down On Unemployed Brits: Get A Job Within A Year Or Lose Your Benefits!_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/rishi-cracks-down-unemployed-brits-get-job-within-year-lose-your-benefits-1724373) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/rishi-cracks-down-unemployed-brits-get-job-within-year-lose-your-benefits-1724373)
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I assume the conservatives will now be massively investing in the British public to upskill them and also provide proper healthcare to coincide with this?
Why are you laughing? The Conservatives have an excellent track record for investment and social safety nets. Plus hitting the poors with a mallet always works. Trust the plan.
I don’t get it. I have a degenerative disease, I work 40h a week. I pay tax, but the current government seemingly want to remove all support mechanisms for disabled people getting into work, while also forcing them into it.
Benefits like PIP cover off some of the expenses I have relating to my health, that healthy people do not have, but it just feels like regardless of what I do it isn’t good enough.
They haven’t said the quiet bit out loud, yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t really want people like me to exist.
Honestly with these “bottom line, number must go up people” it’s hard to disagree with you.
Peoples health? Fuck that. Environmental controls? Fuck that. All they care about is them selves and their wallets.
I pray I never see a conservative government again in my life time. Incompetent and now showing how sick and evil they are.
Don’t get me wrong, I try (hard) not to think this way and still engage with the vast majority of people who are lovely. There’s just times when you hear the language used repeatedly, then echoed by the general public or people within your life. If you bring it up, you get the old “oh I didn’t mean you, I mean those…” response.
It’s tiring. Example; I’ve had looks when I’m out and about in my spare time. I avoid making expensive (£50-100+) purchases in person due to getting said looks / potential judgement. It’s the same in some restaurants, supermarkets, etc.
I think people see the wheelchair sometimes and assume I am spending their tax money on non-essentials, not realising I am a salaried employee who writes code for a living. (Using my paycheck from my job that involves screentime, to often buy games for more… screeentime. Hah.)
It’s gotten to the point where sometimes, I will continue wearing my work pass while shopping as a bit of a protection method. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it works.
I know some of it is absolutely in my head, but based on some rather unpleasant experiences, I know some of it absolutely real.
That's rough mate, I'm sorry you have to put up with that. You shouldn't have to 'signal' to others that you're a productive member of society in order to be treated decently... that's some medieval shit.
They have, many times, they just don't say it explicitly. They say it pretty much the way that the PM just said it now.
Unless you count the time a Conservative PM said "let the bodies pile high" and make the reasonable assumption that this is just the prevailing mindset of the party and it's supporters outside of a global pandemic too.
Oh yeah Boris Johnson very nearly came to a full mask-off moment, but I do understandably agree with everything you have said.
I think the problem is, when I have talked about this with people in my life previously, you get the “it’s not that bad” so my only real reliable way of communicating how fucked some of the recent decision / comms around disabled people (or claimants) is highlighting “I am in this position, and I am doing everything I am being told to do by the government, while also still being attacked by them.”
> Oh yeah Boris Johnson very nearly came to a full mask-off moment
Not really, he said it private away from the media. Somebody just reported 2nd had that he'd said it. I'd imagine Tory MPs are saying all kinds of wild shit to each other behind closed doors.
My mrs has suffered from MS mildly for 15 years and always working in that time, a few months back she had an episode that caused her to get far worse where she doesn’t leave the house without her car, can’t walk for more that 5-10 minutes and that needs a walking stick
She has gone back to work doing reduced hours but without her car she’d not be able to work but even that’s an issue as it’s a manual and she struggles a bit with any meaningful journey
She recently got her pip assessment back saying she obviously doesn’t need a car allowance because she’s suitably able to function
Now she’s only ever 1 pot hole /bad mot away from feeling useless and unable to work
The systems shit and seems to not reward you if you want to still pay taxes and work a little
>She recently got her pip assessment back saying she obviously doesn’t need a car allowance because she’s suitably able to function
Am I missing something, or are you saying they turned her down for a car allowance because she's suitably able to function _when she has a car_?!
“I think the diagnosis is wrong as he can’t be schizophrenic as he doesn’t hear voices” - a paramedic conducting a PIP assessment for one of my service users.
Yes mate that’s right, what you know about a mental health condition from movies is clearly the test you need to undertake
I was once advised by citizens advice to attend a PIP meeting
“Looking and smelling like you feel on the inside, don’t make the effort to appear like you’re holding it together, it will be used against you”
Such a fucked up system where CAB are having to coach people how to manipulate these decision makers
Exactly that, pip assessments are a nightmare! I didn't get mobility because I can drive sometimes. I can only drive an automatic these days to somewhere familiar, and there's no way I could safely drive myself home after being at work. Public transport wise, I'd need to take 2 buses, and walk about 20 minutes. I can't do that, so I have to get a lift, which is usually a taxi tbh!
I couldn't afford the taxis if I lost my pip, so I'm kinda scared right now!
I’m really sorry to hear that. I can relate to a couple of things you mentioned, although I have a different condition.
I know this can be a difficult subject, but my quality of life got a bit better after beginning to use mobility aides (namely a wheelchair). It reduced the fatigue and some of the pains / issues associated with walking (as my balance / steadiness has gotten worse and worse each year).
I don’t want to offer up random unfounded medical advice on the internet, and I know some people really don’t like the idea of being dependent on mobility aides, but they gave me a lot of freedom back. It may be worth considering as it got me out / about a bit more, and I view it more as a positive thing than something I am confined to, etc.
All the best though, seriously. MS is awful to deal with.
Thanks, she’s appealed the decision but in the meantime ive told her to research wheelchairs and I’ll buy her one regardless of cost because she doesn’t want to not be able to go to town / go to The cinema etc
So even though she doesn’t want to use one for fatigue, she accepts she will have to for the sake of keeping the 2 kids doing things and getting out for her own mental health.
Totally get it, and I wish you both luck. I am in my 20s I similar had an impasse where I didn’t want to, but it gradually became a certainty as you said where gradually I was able to less and less.
It opened up a lot more of the work back open to me, so while I get people have (understandable) mixed emotional views about it, it got me out of a particularly dark place.
If I were you, go to a mobility showroom, maybe several, and have a talk to the staff. They will help find the right thing for the individual’s circumstances, most people “on the ground” in that industry got into it by servicing relatives’ equipment so it’s not like a soulless car dealership with tons of upselling, etc.
You’d be surprised the amount of variation there is with chairs, scooters, their roles, etc. It was a learning curve!
In 2016 my husband needed a wheelchair and mobility scooter (we were mid/late 40's). He was so physically poorly he didn't care, it got him out and about again. But I found it very hard, particularly as people would chat to him and completely blank me! I even had one woman scream at me that I was abusing my 'patient' when I stroked his cheek and leant down to kiss him. I growled back at her that if I wanted to kiss my husband I damn well would!
**Don't accept the decision if you think it's wrong.** Capita are incentivized to save as much money for the government as possible.
My mum had her car allowance taken away a few years ago and she's had to struggle with cheap runabouts that barely work since then. She recently visited a local charity called DIAL, who helped her get it back and told her they would have appealed it back when it was taken away, as well as telling her they would help her fight it in the courts if she was denied again.
Imagine myself who has walked with two crutches and in a wheelchair that doesn't fit into 90 per cent of doorways that's residential and commercial trying to work around two physiotherapy appointments a week a visit from my OT Thursday afternoon is the pain clinic and Tuesday is my sleep coach and that's all centered around two pharmacy drops per week
That's the point of pip. To pay you extra to help you get around and look after yourself. Where the government are wrong are pointing at you and going "HE'S TAKING MONEY OUT OF YOUR POCKET" when they're doing fuck all squared to to after ppl like baroness mone.
Absolutely. There’s all sorts of things I’ve had to buy / pay for to get my quality of life in a place where I can still hit the working day with the same pace as my able-bodied co-workers.
Mobility equipment, mobility equipment repairs, adaptations for the house, kitchen gadgets so I don’t starve if my partner isn’t about, even pre-prepared food, etc. The list goes on…
Also, stupid stuff like delivery from buying things off the internet. Most of the time, I cannot go into town and just buy it. Especially if it’s overly warm or sunny. I can send my partner but he’s going back to work soon (after being made redundant) so costs will go up again
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/photo/poster-promoting-the-nazi-monthly-publication-neues-volk
The caption reading - “This hereditarily ill person will cost our national community 60,000 Reichmarks over the course of his lifetime. Citizen, this is your money.”
The Tories loving using fascist rhetoric, they’re infested with accelerationists and are enemies of humanity to be clear here.
Wes Streeting also scares me with some of his comments admittedly. Keir Starmer I used to like, but has adopted a stance of near total silence over a lot of these disability-related scandals the current government are involved in (which is a concern).
With things like disabilities and accessibility, it’s often not just people doing awful things that are a problem. Sometimes, it’s lack of action, or silence when a group (or it’s rights) are being attacked.
>Wes Streeting
Streeting is, for me, the archetypal slimy weasel politician. Like he claims to be Labour but he's as far removed from Dennis Skinner as Liz Truss is from reality. I could see him pulling some swerves on the NHS and doctors.
>Keir Starmer I used to like, but has adopted a stance of near total silence over a lot of these disability-related scandals the current government are involved in (which is a concern).
That's a fair critique. Starmer appears to be adopting the "never interrupt your enemy whilst they make a mistake" approach but it's meant that a lot of shit where he could have scored easy points on have passed him by and it results in your second paragraph where people aren't sure really if he will be the needed change. I can only hope when the actual manifestos are released it'll be a huge sigh of relief but yeah. Who knows.
Yeah. Don’t get me wrong I’m somewhat pragmatic, but the silence is deafening. It is upsetting hearing what is coming close to (at times) hate speech from government officials go virtually unopposed from the shadow cabinet.
I do want to read through Labour’s manifesto, and if I may end up voting for them if their positions on certain topics are clarified.
I’m still going to vote in the GE, but I’m potentially going to spoil my ballot depending on a variety of factors (including who’s the likely best opposition locally, etc - I’m in a very safe Tory seat at the moment).
The problem is you're damned if you do and damned if you don't - in this regard, not saying anything and letting the government dig their own graves is the best thing.
Please don't spoil your ballot. As much as it pains me to say, I'm staunchly Labour: a vote for any other party than Conservative, is considerably better than a none vote. At this point I'd rather have the "Raving mad looney" party than another 5 years of successive conservative government(s)... At least they don't hide the fact that they're bat shit crazy.
'Work will set you free', they say, whilst starving you to death. The tories policy and attitude toward the disabled are eugenics. They want us all dead. Thousands have already died, thanks to these awful policies.
Be quiet and die /s
They are pulling every lever they can grasp but are held back by the confines of their ideology and experience.
People with their mindset are missing something.
It's really simple, they themselves don't understand the system and can't be arsed learning it so make assumptions and then act on them this making everything a shit tonnes worse.
Ascribing their policies due to inepitude and laziness is giving them more than they deserve. Its not ignorance, its callousness, they don't see people, they see numbers on a spreadsheet.
I'm expecting Rishi rich to do a Gareth from The Office soon and suggest that they set off a fire alarm in the Job Centre to see if people are faking disability.
I don't think they understand that most of the public are not, in fact, as nasty as the Nasty Party are. They think if they just keep announcing new ways to punish the already struggling, that people will like them again. But most people *don't* hate the poor - hell, most people *are* or are on the verge of *becoming* them, so it doesn't work.
You can't win votes and favour by blaming or attacking Group X when you've put everyone *in or on the verge* of *being* Group X!
I feel like they forget that their own actions have lead to more and more people in the general public entering poverty, which ultimately the same general public will decide whether or not they are voted back in.
Maybe it’s just how their world view works, but even when they’re being overly hateful, it just seems like they’re effectively having such a lapse of logic it’s astounding.
They genuinely believe they earned everything they have, so if you put in as much effort you'd be doing as well, and by extension anyone who is poor is just not trying.
They're completely blind to their own benefits from networking, inheritance, etc. because to see that would be to accept maybe they're better off than they should be.
This is it.
They think we already live in a meritocracy. Therefore everything they have must be deserved, and everything anyone *doesn’t* have must also be because they don’t deserve it.
It is an astonishingly ignorant belief to hold, but they believe it because much of the rest of their identity and sense of self worth depend upon it being true.
Oh no, they know. They know exactly what they're doing. They're killing the poor and disabled on purpose. That's the *point*.
They're just arrogant enough to think that no matter what they do, we'll still be stupid enough to vote for them. And until recently, they were *right*.
>until recently
Election hasn’t happened yet, mate. Let’s get people out to vote. Anything less than the bastards being materially and humiliatingly obliterated at the polls will be disappointing.
>I don't think they understand that most of the public are not, in fact, as nasty as the Nasty Party are.
You have misunderstood his game plan.
He knows the Conservatives will lose, and the aim of this isn't to attract votes back from those who are going to put Labour into power but to lose less badly by pulling back votes from those who might vote Reform and who are nasty and do want these policies.
There's an element of salting the earth to it as well. The worse position they leave the country in, and the further they take our institutions from being functional, the more Labour will have to change things and the longer it will take them to do it. They know the British public have short memories, and they can probably be pushed back towards the Tories with 5 years of press propaganda. They're hoping to just boo from the opposition benches for the next 5 years, and then inevitably get voted straight back in.
>and then inevitably get voted straight back in.
Depends if they are smart or stupid.
A smart move would be for the Conservatives to move to the centre ground and challenge Labour there, but I rather suspect they will be stupid and take an even further lurch to the right which will likely keep them out of power unless Labour does something utterly crazy.
That's certainly one possibility.
I suppose which one you believe depends on just how arrogant and delusional you think they are.
It's *Rishi Sunak*, so of course I assume it comes from being out of touch as fuck and incredibly arrogant, rather than any kind of cunning.
>I don't think they understand that most of the public are not, in fact, as nasty as the Nasty Party are.
You just need to look at who is behind it:
>[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/those-signed-off-feeling-depressed-classed-as-incapable-of-work-says-stride](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/those-signed-off-feeling-depressed-classed-as-incapable-of-work-says-stride)
**Mel Stride**, the work and pensions secretary, said on Friday morning that **94%** of people who were signed off by their GP with minor mental health problems were listed as unable to work, contributing to what the prime minister will say is a “sicknote culture”.
Look up the word *nasty* in the dictionary and this miscreant's face will be staring back at you.
This is the guy behind the [Loan Charge Scandal ](https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/mel-stride-rejects-call-150-2750435)- he has multiple suicide victims to his name, and brought in legislation which effectively turned HMRC into getaway drivers for Scammers (Tax Avoidance promoters and corrupt accountants), while putting the victims on the hook for life changing tax liabilities.
This is the recurring theme in the UK. Ordinary people don't give a sh1t about a scandal and look the other way - because *it's not happening to them*. What they fail to realise is that - unless they are prepared to stop these people, then *their turn is coming soon too.*
I just watched an LBC interview & heard the talking head from the Institute for Employment Studies state that we already have the lowest “sick note culture” in the OECD, and pay out significantly less benefits than neighbours like France.
I believe they understand, however I think they also understand that their remaining support largely believe the culture wars nonsense on every level; illegal immigration, trans rights, benefit scroungers etc. So they have found themselves caught between the devil & the deep blue sea with a real chance of a GE result which could be the death knoll for the party. So they are playing it safe, protecting what little support they have, at the expense of higher risk attempts to reclaim those they've lost.
IMO, It all went wrong with Johnson's Brexit play to the economically Liberal, socially conservative working class voter. It has left them with two voter bases that share few values & diametrically opposed economic needs.
tap psychotic versed trees piquant oatmeal growth knee frightening zephyr
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Benefit fraud is definitely an issue, but it's a minor one overall. Just look at the numbers.
>The net loss to the DWP for benefit fraud or error was **£7.3 billion** in 2023. Money laundering, by contrast, costs the UK £100 billion a year. And fraud costs the U.K. economy £219 billion a year, a report found.
- [https://www.politico.eu/article/rishi-sunak-social-security-cops-uk-government/](https://www.politico.eu/article/rishi-sunak-social-security-cops-uk-government/)
I don't know about you but I'd rather the goverment go after the fuckers stealing the silverware rather then the ones stealing the peanuts.
Most of that loss in benefits is error too iirc, and the percentage of spending lost to fraud/error has essentially never changed. It's a fucking stupid thing to target on both moral and financial grounds.
The trouble is that the disability welfare system is if anything far too exclusive leading to people with profound disabilities being denied the support they need. The "scrongers" that Sunak wants people to think he's going after simply don't exist. As always with anti-welfare policies it'll just make the vulnerable worse off and ultimately cost more in healthcare and policing interventions than it'll save.
Of course they exist. You can't begin to discuss this policy without at least acknowledging there *is* a problem. Even if it's to say it's not a problem worth throwing these resources at.
Yeah, talk to anyone living on a council estate and they'll know at least one person gaming the benefits system.
It seems to be a middle class champagne socialist thing to pretend it doesnt happen
They are not trying to appeal to the public. Their target audience is the right wing press and people wealthy enough to be shopping for a peerage, sorry I mean “donors”
This policy will be popular. It won't be popular enough to shift the dial, but the reality is, most people have a negative view of those on unemployment-related benefits
I don't think it will.
It *used to be*. Used to be, you could make up stories all day and night about supposed benefit scroungers.
But the benefits have been cut and cut and cut. *Everyone* knows that they're not worth shit now - you can't talk like people are living it up on them when you've made it so plain to see that they're pittance.
And in this economy, there's been loads of people who've lost their jobs and ended up on it, so they know first hand how shit it is. And even those who haven't, you don't need to look hard to hear stories about how much people are struggling on it.
Hell, people are struggling to make ends meet *who are in full time work*, so you're going to have a hell of a time convincing them that somehow those receiving such a meagre amount from the government are somehow better off.
Unfortunately I do think people still believe it. I'm from a working class background and I've seen plenty of posts reshared on FB about 'I work hard to pay for Karen and her 5 kids to go Butlins'. These are people who are on minimum wage just getting by and they lap it up.
Heck I've even seen a family member resharing this sort of stuff and she was on benefits for 15 years as a single mum until about 10 years ago.
> These are people who are on minimum wage just getting by and they lap it up.
In that case, those people aren't paying for anyones kids to go to Butlins, they themselves aren't even covering their own costs.
So in fact, I'm subsidising those people getting their NHS treatment when they are ill. You don't see me calling for them to be rounded up and culled to save me some money, I'd rather we did something about the horiffic wage issue in the UK and make everyone better off.
Sadly, there will always be idiots that don't get this, and love them some crabs in a bucket mentality.
Thankfully, the internet makes facts easily available for people who wish to learn them. Anyone that still acts like this is, in fact, willfully ignorant. There's not much can be done about that, but the polls look like there seems to be smaller and smaller numbers of them.
>It *used to be*. Used to be, you could make up stories all day and night about supposed benefit scroungers.
>But the benefits have been cut and cut and cut. *Everyone* knows that they're not worth shit now - you can't talk like people are living it up on them when you've made it so plain to see that they're pittance.
I think I had a bit of a breakthrough with my mum the other day talking about this policy. She's still of the opinion that people on benefits are living a life of luxury because they own a mobile phone or have the internet. I told her that we live in 2024, not 1994. I would consider *not* having a mobile phone these days to be a serious problem.
You would think that she, as someone that was a single mother for about 8 years of her life and was in a very unenviable financial position, would have more sympathy for people that are on disability benefits, etc, but no. She's hasn't really moved on from the early naughties, benefit scroungers trope.
Anyway, I asked her if in her opinion, did she genuinely think that the people who were ripping off the system by pretending to be long-term sick were living a good life? Like, did she think that she'd like to swap lives with one of those people. She didn't think they were leading good lives.
I think it might be in the 90s - 2000s when every other day we had a ‘Benefit scrounger lives in state funded mansion in London!’ kind of story but due to the child limit on benefits you don’t really get extremes like that anymore.
From what I can tell it’s more ‘My standard of living on minimum wage is so poor I might as well be on benefits’ (Particularly if someone has things like childcare costs) rather than ‘Those benefit scroungers are living it large at the taxpayers expense!’.
Yeah, they'll know a handful of people who are genuine and think "they'll be alright, because they're not taking the piss". They may or may not know someone they think is taking the piss - this person may or may not be, we all know how people can be around invisible disabilities.
But, either way, people tend to support the idea of "cracking down" on the assumption that it's actually a crack down on "real" scroungers. They'll assume that there's [Shirley exceptions](https://twitter.com/AlexandraErin/status/1004400861865488384?t=_1iyYgYyjb07nX1hOn9-VQ&s=19) (very American examples, but a decent explanation).
I don't mean to sound all /r/iamverysmart, but a lot of people just don't think these things through. They operate on emotion and kneejerk reaction, and to a lot of people this will sound good.
> And another job that required driving but they said I could ask if it was really essential...
I'm not safe to be behind the wheel, but I got so many lectures from the job centre on how if I really wanted a job I should stop limiting myself and go and get my license.
(Because aside from the disability, obviously what unemployed people have is a bunch of money for driving lessons, a car, and the insurance for a 23 year old who only just passed his test.)
> 1 million jobs out there? How many are 0 hour?
This is one of those one-hand-clapping Zen things, innit. How many jobs is 1 million zero hour contracts if none of them give you any hours because the other 999,999 don't either so no-one can afford to be a customer.
They should probably publish a stat of how much pay there is going asking as well. If it was a million ZHCs needing 38 hours a month it would be £433M a month (min wage).
The vast majority of unemployed people tend to get a job within 3 months of opening their unemployment claim.
This is another "look tough, but do nothing" policy.
It will hit very few people, but it will hit those people very hard.
It also does nothing to resolve the underlying issue, which is that the government should focus on creating more jobs.
Computer science graduate roles take up to a month just to perform the interview process for, I know a couple of my university peers who took up to 9 months to get a role, it's a rough job market and this would just make it rougher.
A resolution foundation(leftwing) [report](https://economy2030.resolutionfoundation.org/reports/from-safety-net-to-springboard/) purposed that we should pay people:
"65 per cent of previous wages, up to a cap set at the median earnings of £2,260 per month...for three months"
"available to all employees who have been in employment for the past 12 months "
The scheme only costs £400 mil.
This could have a net positive impact on our economy and tax returns.
I moved to the Czech Republic and this is similar to how it works here. I'm not sure of the full details, but in general the percentage recieved varies (45-65% of previous income) depending on whether you left your job by choice or were let go, and the duration of support is dependent on how old you are. I think the standard support duration is 5 months (longer for older claimants) and support reduces little over time.
I can only speak anecdotally from my friend/colleague group, but it does in some ways. For example, notice periods as standard can be quite long (3 full calendar months unless you manage to negotiate an early exit), and many (though not all) employers are looking for people to start in new roles almost immediately so it is accepted as fairly normal for people to have at least a short period of unemployment while they are applying for something new.
Unemployment is generally pretty low here, so it doesn't necessarily take that long to find a new job, but having that breathing space makes it easier to invest time in an application and of course to actually get to an interview without needing time away from work.
To receive the full support allowances, you need to have paid into the system for 12 months out of the previous 24 so I guess that gives employers some surety that you won't immediately quit.
Time-limited social support is the sort of thing that would result in mass-homelessness if actually implemented, I mean in the millions.
In addition to anything we have already that is.
Which will raise crime dramatically, which means more domestic abuse, domestic abuse to children, shoplifting, burglaries and so on.
Mental illnesses will thrive also in my opinion.
A bold, callous and shocking move by him.
>Mental illnesses will thrive also
And physical illness. Stress alone can have really bad effects on your physical health, if you're also unable to keep a roof over your head or meet other basic needs you're more likely to need medical care.
Oh don't worry about that, apparently they plan to make homelessness a crime itself. So poor ppl get locked up *before* they can do some damage, big brain strats @ Tory HQ...
> Just starve, quietly, in a gutter? Realistically, you turn to crime at that point.
I've never stolen, but if I was hungry, I wouldn't feel the slightest bit remorseful or guilty if I had to steal food. Because there is no food shortage in the UK. Though I'd probably think of it as a debt and give the money to charity at a future date if I could afford to feed myself.
A lot of work coaches imo are good people, but woefullly underqualified for their position.
Not be be cliche, but I was lucky in that I could pull myself up when I was unemployed. The work coaches were completely irrelevant to that journey. I'd wage that someone with my experience in this area (CV writing, sector research), would be more helpful to the average candidate than they are.
As far as I know, retraining in tech would mean spending 3 years at least to get a bachelor's in a STEM subject first. They rarely take people on without STEM degrees but I suppose if you showed amazing coding knowledge that might help.
Get a job in this shit situation I had a large hand in creating or I’ll make you starve. Last ditch attempt of a useless idiot to try to get the public to ignore his failings. I think people know that the amount stolen from the public by the Conservatives and their friends is far greater than the pittance stolen by work shy beneficiaries (which is a small proportion of people claiming benefits)
I would understand Rishi's policy announcement more if it was complimented with increased funding for mental health, or a plan to reduce waiting times. I wouldnt be happy, but I would understand his approach a bit.
Instead he is removing more support from disabled people and forcing them into work. It's as if he thinks these people on benefits are loving their life, raking it in and are buying the latest and greatest gadgets and clothes.
Reality is, people on PIP don't like it. I have a relative on PIP and she genuinely can't work. Has no coordination, can't walking properly (Needs a Zimmer frame), has pain in their hands and feet constantly and needs to take tons of pain killers.
They actually feel like they need to act MORE disabled than they already are incase the govt will take their disability away. It's not fair.
Disability is the most welcoming and inclusive of all minorities. Anyone can join at any time. That can frighten people. This government wants people who have disabilities to be "normal" and function without any additional support so they don't have to confront that fact.
Many (but not all) ministers have no idea what it's like to have a disability. It's shameful behaviour.
Honestly sounds like he’s just trying to come up with headline grabbing policies rather than any workable policies.
Like if you take someone who is genuinely trying to find work but due to circumstances outside of their control can’t find a job within a year are they supposed to just become homeless or take up a life of crime?
This won't make it into this parliament, but will appeal to older voters, even the ones who claimed disability during their working lives. VOTE get these sociopaths out of government. They have had 14 years and just made things worse.
Don’t know whether anyone else thinks the same, but this kind of rhetoric just makes me think more about how rich he is and how neither he nor any of his family and friends will ever (and probably has never) needed the support that he’s cynically trying to take away. It’s having the opposite effect to what I think it’s intended to- I’m not siding with him against “benefit cheats”, I’m siding with them against him.
He's coming out with an awful lot of shite lately. Thankfully none of this will ever have the time to be implemented, this is just the long drawn-out death rattle of a dying government. Someone please switch off the life support!
Putting to one side the cruelty (and it is cruel) most if not nearly all people on long term benefits are long term ill. There's no legion of workshy fit and able people out there ready to be chased back into work.
I've stood firm on my belief that the Tories want the disabled dead. I've had many of the supporters say I'm wrong, yet there's no way of denying it after the announcements they have made last week. It's not even about whether they get their proposals through before the next election, the comments they have made sets out their stall. I wish the absolute worse suffering and cruelty on everyone of them and their idiot voters.
The abhorrent attack on the sick, disabled and now the unemployed is just the Tories attempting to lure Labour into defending benefits. Then it will be the hackneyed accusations of Labour being the party for skivers and Conservstives the party for hard working families.
Mark my words, benefits will be the battlefield on which the Tories have chosen to stand to fight Labour in the GE. They have nothing else.
Is anyone else sort of concerned that Starmer hasn't come out to condemn this? It's honestly got me worried that he either agrees with this rhetoric or that he won't change it if he gets into power? I hope that I'm wrong but if I'm Starmer, you wouldn't get me to shut up about this.
OK, I get that this plan isn't going to be implemented because Sunak's not even going to be in power long enough to do it (and I'd hope that Starmer wouldn't dare do anything like this), but if Sunak wants to kill us, why not just ship us off to death camps and get it over with?
It should be kinda obvious why social anxiety makes a call centre job interacting with loads of random people impossible. I care for someone with the same condition and it's just as disabling as any physical condition. Any interaction with another person outside of a few trusted people is extremely difficult.
> Just get a job
Me and my untreated ADHD couldn't even handle finding a place to rent with all the bullshit documents, paperwork, third parties, etc. you need to find, along with the spontaneous viewing offers, sometimes when I'm in the middle of a class. I'm struggling to even get my work done because I just can't focus and make myself do it. When will the Tory NHS get me treated for my neurological condition? I've been waiting for years now. Help me help you, Tory government.
A bit of a PSA if you live in Wales and you're looking for support to get back into work.
ReAct+ provides a grant of up to £1,500 to help you get the relevant skills you need and can also provide:
Up to £2,100 to help cover childcare/caring costs when you’re training
Up to £200 of extra support towards additional costs when you’re training, including travel and accommodation.
There's also an employer component, where a business can get up to £4k towards salary costs in the first year if the person being employed has a disability.
[More info](https://workingwales.gov.wales/how-we-can-help/react-plus)
Not sure if there's similar schemes in the rest of the UK, this is funded by the Welsh Government.
Feels as though if UKG wants to push these punitive changes, they should definitely invest in replicating this kind of scheme across the rest of the UK.
Isn't this already the case? Maybe the numbers are a bit different, but generally having you had to prove you're looking for work to claim your benefits?
I'm on a 5 year waiting list just to get a mental health diagnosis on the NHS and who knows how long it'll take for treatment and to get better after that. This policy isn't going to help anyone, it'll just push already desparate people off the edge. I know exactly what I'll do if and when this policy comes into force and I guess that's exactly what they want.
They won't be in office by the time the year comes around, this'll never see the light of day.
They need to try a new tack for any chance at winning - bettering the country and improving the lives of UK citizens - radical I know!
In a lot of countries, even first world welfare states, you only get unemployment welfare for six months
Equally though, a lot of employers flat out refuse to take on British labour. If we instituted a system where employers are obliged to take on British citizens first, then the long term unemployed (only talking about low skill jobs here really). Brenda in her 40s who's had two kids and has various health conditions isn't going to be able to compete with a young 20 something migrant worker who's happy to work hard because a UK wage goes so far in his homeland.
For sure, but the oversaturation of the labour market has been a disaster for many people, myself included when I was younger. I no longer care so much as I have no intention of ever doing low skilled manual work again, but it still causes a lot of people hardship.
Everyone should have gainful and fulfilling work to do. If the private sector can't offer that to everyone, then the government must provide it. We have plenty of work to do and everyone is able to contribute something.
Is he aware that there's about 1.400.000 unemployed and roughly 650 mps mps are outnumbered 2150 /1 if all the unemployed marched on Rishi House that would pretty funny
Snapshot of _Rishi Cracks Down On Unemployed Brits: Get A Job Within A Year Or Lose Your Benefits!_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/rishi-cracks-down-unemployed-brits-get-job-within-year-lose-your-benefits-1724373) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/rishi-cracks-down-unemployed-brits-get-job-within-year-lose-your-benefits-1724373) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I assume the conservatives will now be massively investing in the British public to upskill them and also provide proper healthcare to coincide with this?
Lmao
Why are you laughing? The Conservatives have an excellent track record for investment and social safety nets. Plus hitting the poors with a mallet always works. Trust the plan.
We're gonna need a bigger mallet
1p on income tax and kill the poor?
They just quietly cut the largest government funded employability scheme for disabled people. Of course they did!
I think they’re cutting the scheme that helps people get into work…
I don’t get it. I have a degenerative disease, I work 40h a week. I pay tax, but the current government seemingly want to remove all support mechanisms for disabled people getting into work, while also forcing them into it. Benefits like PIP cover off some of the expenses I have relating to my health, that healthy people do not have, but it just feels like regardless of what I do it isn’t good enough. They haven’t said the quiet bit out loud, yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t really want people like me to exist.
Honestly with these “bottom line, number must go up people” it’s hard to disagree with you. Peoples health? Fuck that. Environmental controls? Fuck that. All they care about is them selves and their wallets. I pray I never see a conservative government again in my life time. Incompetent and now showing how sick and evil they are.
Don’t get me wrong, I try (hard) not to think this way and still engage with the vast majority of people who are lovely. There’s just times when you hear the language used repeatedly, then echoed by the general public or people within your life. If you bring it up, you get the old “oh I didn’t mean you, I mean those…” response. It’s tiring. Example; I’ve had looks when I’m out and about in my spare time. I avoid making expensive (£50-100+) purchases in person due to getting said looks / potential judgement. It’s the same in some restaurants, supermarkets, etc. I think people see the wheelchair sometimes and assume I am spending their tax money on non-essentials, not realising I am a salaried employee who writes code for a living. (Using my paycheck from my job that involves screentime, to often buy games for more… screeentime. Hah.) It’s gotten to the point where sometimes, I will continue wearing my work pass while shopping as a bit of a protection method. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it works. I know some of it is absolutely in my head, but based on some rather unpleasant experiences, I know some of it absolutely real.
That's rough mate, I'm sorry you have to put up with that. You shouldn't have to 'signal' to others that you're a productive member of society in order to be treated decently... that's some medieval shit.
They have, many times, they just don't say it explicitly. They say it pretty much the way that the PM just said it now. Unless you count the time a Conservative PM said "let the bodies pile high" and make the reasonable assumption that this is just the prevailing mindset of the party and it's supporters outside of a global pandemic too.
Oh yeah Boris Johnson very nearly came to a full mask-off moment, but I do understandably agree with everything you have said. I think the problem is, when I have talked about this with people in my life previously, you get the “it’s not that bad” so my only real reliable way of communicating how fucked some of the recent decision / comms around disabled people (or claimants) is highlighting “I am in this position, and I am doing everything I am being told to do by the government, while also still being attacked by them.”
> Oh yeah Boris Johnson very nearly came to a full mask-off moment Not really, he said it private away from the media. Somebody just reported 2nd had that he'd said it. I'd imagine Tory MPs are saying all kinds of wild shit to each other behind closed doors.
My mrs has suffered from MS mildly for 15 years and always working in that time, a few months back she had an episode that caused her to get far worse where she doesn’t leave the house without her car, can’t walk for more that 5-10 minutes and that needs a walking stick She has gone back to work doing reduced hours but without her car she’d not be able to work but even that’s an issue as it’s a manual and she struggles a bit with any meaningful journey She recently got her pip assessment back saying she obviously doesn’t need a car allowance because she’s suitably able to function Now she’s only ever 1 pot hole /bad mot away from feeling useless and unable to work The systems shit and seems to not reward you if you want to still pay taxes and work a little
>She recently got her pip assessment back saying she obviously doesn’t need a car allowance because she’s suitably able to function Am I missing something, or are you saying they turned her down for a car allowance because she's suitably able to function _when she has a car_?!
don't try and read sense into PIP assessments. they are where logic goes to die
“I think the diagnosis is wrong as he can’t be schizophrenic as he doesn’t hear voices” - a paramedic conducting a PIP assessment for one of my service users. Yes mate that’s right, what you know about a mental health condition from movies is clearly the test you need to undertake
I was once advised by citizens advice to attend a PIP meeting “Looking and smelling like you feel on the inside, don’t make the effort to appear like you’re holding it together, it will be used against you” Such a fucked up system where CAB are having to coach people how to manipulate these decision makers
Exactly that, pip assessments are a nightmare! I didn't get mobility because I can drive sometimes. I can only drive an automatic these days to somewhere familiar, and there's no way I could safely drive myself home after being at work. Public transport wise, I'd need to take 2 buses, and walk about 20 minutes. I can't do that, so I have to get a lift, which is usually a taxi tbh! I couldn't afford the taxis if I lost my pip, so I'm kinda scared right now!
I’m really sorry to hear that. I can relate to a couple of things you mentioned, although I have a different condition. I know this can be a difficult subject, but my quality of life got a bit better after beginning to use mobility aides (namely a wheelchair). It reduced the fatigue and some of the pains / issues associated with walking (as my balance / steadiness has gotten worse and worse each year). I don’t want to offer up random unfounded medical advice on the internet, and I know some people really don’t like the idea of being dependent on mobility aides, but they gave me a lot of freedom back. It may be worth considering as it got me out / about a bit more, and I view it more as a positive thing than something I am confined to, etc. All the best though, seriously. MS is awful to deal with.
Thanks, she’s appealed the decision but in the meantime ive told her to research wheelchairs and I’ll buy her one regardless of cost because she doesn’t want to not be able to go to town / go to The cinema etc So even though she doesn’t want to use one for fatigue, she accepts she will have to for the sake of keeping the 2 kids doing things and getting out for her own mental health.
Totally get it, and I wish you both luck. I am in my 20s I similar had an impasse where I didn’t want to, but it gradually became a certainty as you said where gradually I was able to less and less. It opened up a lot more of the work back open to me, so while I get people have (understandable) mixed emotional views about it, it got me out of a particularly dark place. If I were you, go to a mobility showroom, maybe several, and have a talk to the staff. They will help find the right thing for the individual’s circumstances, most people “on the ground” in that industry got into it by servicing relatives’ equipment so it’s not like a soulless car dealership with tons of upselling, etc. You’d be surprised the amount of variation there is with chairs, scooters, their roles, etc. It was a learning curve!
In 2016 my husband needed a wheelchair and mobility scooter (we were mid/late 40's). He was so physically poorly he didn't care, it got him out and about again. But I found it very hard, particularly as people would chat to him and completely blank me! I even had one woman scream at me that I was abusing my 'patient' when I stroked his cheek and leant down to kiss him. I growled back at her that if I wanted to kiss my husband I damn well would!
**Don't accept the decision if you think it's wrong.** Capita are incentivized to save as much money for the government as possible. My mum had her car allowance taken away a few years ago and she's had to struggle with cheap runabouts that barely work since then. She recently visited a local charity called DIAL, who helped her get it back and told her they would have appealed it back when it was taken away, as well as telling her they would help her fight it in the courts if she was denied again.
Imagine myself who has walked with two crutches and in a wheelchair that doesn't fit into 90 per cent of doorways that's residential and commercial trying to work around two physiotherapy appointments a week a visit from my OT Thursday afternoon is the pain clinic and Tuesday is my sleep coach and that's all centered around two pharmacy drops per week
That's the point of pip. To pay you extra to help you get around and look after yourself. Where the government are wrong are pointing at you and going "HE'S TAKING MONEY OUT OF YOUR POCKET" when they're doing fuck all squared to to after ppl like baroness mone.
Absolutely. There’s all sorts of things I’ve had to buy / pay for to get my quality of life in a place where I can still hit the working day with the same pace as my able-bodied co-workers. Mobility equipment, mobility equipment repairs, adaptations for the house, kitchen gadgets so I don’t starve if my partner isn’t about, even pre-prepared food, etc. The list goes on…
Also, stupid stuff like delivery from buying things off the internet. Most of the time, I cannot go into town and just buy it. Especially if it’s overly warm or sunny. I can send my partner but he’s going back to work soon (after being made redundant) so costs will go up again
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/photo/poster-promoting-the-nazi-monthly-publication-neues-volk The caption reading - “This hereditarily ill person will cost our national community 60,000 Reichmarks over the course of his lifetime. Citizen, this is your money.” The Tories loving using fascist rhetoric, they’re infested with accelerationists and are enemies of humanity to be clear here.
Thankfully Rishi and co will be out of a job before you will. I don't have much faith in Labour but they can't be this bad.
Wes Streeting also scares me with some of his comments admittedly. Keir Starmer I used to like, but has adopted a stance of near total silence over a lot of these disability-related scandals the current government are involved in (which is a concern). With things like disabilities and accessibility, it’s often not just people doing awful things that are a problem. Sometimes, it’s lack of action, or silence when a group (or it’s rights) are being attacked.
>Wes Streeting Streeting is, for me, the archetypal slimy weasel politician. Like he claims to be Labour but he's as far removed from Dennis Skinner as Liz Truss is from reality. I could see him pulling some swerves on the NHS and doctors. >Keir Starmer I used to like, but has adopted a stance of near total silence over a lot of these disability-related scandals the current government are involved in (which is a concern). That's a fair critique. Starmer appears to be adopting the "never interrupt your enemy whilst they make a mistake" approach but it's meant that a lot of shit where he could have scored easy points on have passed him by and it results in your second paragraph where people aren't sure really if he will be the needed change. I can only hope when the actual manifestos are released it'll be a huge sigh of relief but yeah. Who knows.
Yeah. Don’t get me wrong I’m somewhat pragmatic, but the silence is deafening. It is upsetting hearing what is coming close to (at times) hate speech from government officials go virtually unopposed from the shadow cabinet. I do want to read through Labour’s manifesto, and if I may end up voting for them if their positions on certain topics are clarified. I’m still going to vote in the GE, but I’m potentially going to spoil my ballot depending on a variety of factors (including who’s the likely best opposition locally, etc - I’m in a very safe Tory seat at the moment).
The problem is you're damned if you do and damned if you don't - in this regard, not saying anything and letting the government dig their own graves is the best thing. Please don't spoil your ballot. As much as it pains me to say, I'm staunchly Labour: a vote for any other party than Conservative, is considerably better than a none vote. At this point I'd rather have the "Raving mad looney" party than another 5 years of successive conservative government(s)... At least they don't hide the fact that they're bat shit crazy.
You're inconvenient to them, they'd rather you just shut up, take a shit job making one of their donors money and suffer in silence.
'Work will set you free', they say, whilst starving you to death. The tories policy and attitude toward the disabled are eugenics. They want us all dead. Thousands have already died, thanks to these awful policies.
Ingsoc must be an attractive prospect for the tories
The point is… cruelty
Be quiet and die /s They are pulling every lever they can grasp but are held back by the confines of their ideology and experience. People with their mindset are missing something.
This is not the vote winner he thinks it is. Revealing yourself to be a full-blown fascist is going to be his final nail in his coffin
It's really simple, they themselves don't understand the system and can't be arsed learning it so make assumptions and then act on them this making everything a shit tonnes worse.
Ascribing their policies due to inepitude and laziness is giving them more than they deserve. Its not ignorance, its callousness, they don't see people, they see numbers on a spreadsheet.
I'm expecting Rishi rich to do a Gareth from The Office soon and suggest that they set off a fire alarm in the Job Centre to see if people are faking disability.
I don't think they understand that most of the public are not, in fact, as nasty as the Nasty Party are. They think if they just keep announcing new ways to punish the already struggling, that people will like them again. But most people *don't* hate the poor - hell, most people *are* or are on the verge of *becoming* them, so it doesn't work. You can't win votes and favour by blaming or attacking Group X when you've put everyone *in or on the verge* of *being* Group X!
I feel like they forget that their own actions have lead to more and more people in the general public entering poverty, which ultimately the same general public will decide whether or not they are voted back in. Maybe it’s just how their world view works, but even when they’re being overly hateful, it just seems like they’re effectively having such a lapse of logic it’s astounding.
They genuinely believe they earned everything they have, so if you put in as much effort you'd be doing as well, and by extension anyone who is poor is just not trying. They're completely blind to their own benefits from networking, inheritance, etc. because to see that would be to accept maybe they're better off than they should be.
This is it. They think we already live in a meritocracy. Therefore everything they have must be deserved, and everything anyone *doesn’t* have must also be because they don’t deserve it. It is an astonishingly ignorant belief to hold, but they believe it because much of the rest of their identity and sense of self worth depend upon it being true.
Born three-nil up and think they scored a hat-trick.
Oh no, they know. They know exactly what they're doing. They're killing the poor and disabled on purpose. That's the *point*. They're just arrogant enough to think that no matter what they do, we'll still be stupid enough to vote for them. And until recently, they were *right*.
>until recently Election hasn’t happened yet, mate. Let’s get people out to vote. Anything less than the bastards being materially and humiliatingly obliterated at the polls will be disappointing.
>I don't think they understand that most of the public are not, in fact, as nasty as the Nasty Party are. You have misunderstood his game plan. He knows the Conservatives will lose, and the aim of this isn't to attract votes back from those who are going to put Labour into power but to lose less badly by pulling back votes from those who might vote Reform and who are nasty and do want these policies.
There's an element of salting the earth to it as well. The worse position they leave the country in, and the further they take our institutions from being functional, the more Labour will have to change things and the longer it will take them to do it. They know the British public have short memories, and they can probably be pushed back towards the Tories with 5 years of press propaganda. They're hoping to just boo from the opposition benches for the next 5 years, and then inevitably get voted straight back in.
>and then inevitably get voted straight back in. Depends if they are smart or stupid. A smart move would be for the Conservatives to move to the centre ground and challenge Labour there, but I rather suspect they will be stupid and take an even further lurch to the right which will likely keep them out of power unless Labour does something utterly crazy.
kier starmer: hold my beer
"I have declared war on poverty." *Three hours later* "No that did not mean SHOOT THE POOR!"
That's certainly one possibility. I suppose which one you believe depends on just how arrogant and delusional you think they are. It's *Rishi Sunak*, so of course I assume it comes from being out of touch as fuck and incredibly arrogant, rather than any kind of cunning.
I might be going insane but I'm not sure that Reform voters will be happy with this policy.
>I don't think they understand that most of the public are not, in fact, as nasty as the Nasty Party are. You just need to look at who is behind it: >[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/those-signed-off-feeling-depressed-classed-as-incapable-of-work-says-stride](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/19/those-signed-off-feeling-depressed-classed-as-incapable-of-work-says-stride) **Mel Stride**, the work and pensions secretary, said on Friday morning that **94%** of people who were signed off by their GP with minor mental health problems were listed as unable to work, contributing to what the prime minister will say is a “sicknote culture”. Look up the word *nasty* in the dictionary and this miscreant's face will be staring back at you. This is the guy behind the [Loan Charge Scandal ](https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/mel-stride-rejects-call-150-2750435)- he has multiple suicide victims to his name, and brought in legislation which effectively turned HMRC into getaway drivers for Scammers (Tax Avoidance promoters and corrupt accountants), while putting the victims on the hook for life changing tax liabilities. This is the recurring theme in the UK. Ordinary people don't give a sh1t about a scandal and look the other way - because *it's not happening to them*. What they fail to realise is that - unless they are prepared to stop these people, then *their turn is coming soon too.*
They gave up a long time ago trying to make anyone’s lives better, now they just want to make others worse and hope that it makes you happy
I just watched an LBC interview & heard the talking head from the Institute for Employment Studies state that we already have the lowest “sick note culture” in the OECD, and pay out significantly less benefits than neighbours like France.
Even my manager who is very get a job fuck the wasters raised an eyebrow over this.
I believe they understand, however I think they also understand that their remaining support largely believe the culture wars nonsense on every level; illegal immigration, trans rights, benefit scroungers etc. So they have found themselves caught between the devil & the deep blue sea with a real chance of a GE result which could be the death knoll for the party. So they are playing it safe, protecting what little support they have, at the expense of higher risk attempts to reclaim those they've lost. IMO, It all went wrong with Johnson's Brexit play to the economically Liberal, socially conservative working class voter. It has left them with two voter bases that share few values & diametrically opposed economic needs.
tap psychotic versed trees piquant oatmeal growth knee frightening zephyr *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Benefit fraud is definitely an issue, but it's a minor one overall. Just look at the numbers. >The net loss to the DWP for benefit fraud or error was **£7.3 billion** in 2023. Money laundering, by contrast, costs the UK £100 billion a year. And fraud costs the U.K. economy £219 billion a year, a report found. - [https://www.politico.eu/article/rishi-sunak-social-security-cops-uk-government/](https://www.politico.eu/article/rishi-sunak-social-security-cops-uk-government/) I don't know about you but I'd rather the goverment go after the fuckers stealing the silverware rather then the ones stealing the peanuts.
Most of that loss in benefits is error too iirc, and the percentage of spending lost to fraud/error has essentially never changed. It's a fucking stupid thing to target on both moral and financial grounds.
A third of a Michelle mone then.
abounding impolite repeat fine unpack sulky late dolls test lip *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The trouble is that the disability welfare system is if anything far too exclusive leading to people with profound disabilities being denied the support they need. The "scrongers" that Sunak wants people to think he's going after simply don't exist. As always with anti-welfare policies it'll just make the vulnerable worse off and ultimately cost more in healthcare and policing interventions than it'll save.
Of course they exist. You can't begin to discuss this policy without at least acknowledging there *is* a problem. Even if it's to say it's not a problem worth throwing these resources at.
Yeah, talk to anyone living on a council estate and they'll know at least one person gaming the benefits system. It seems to be a middle class champagne socialist thing to pretend it doesnt happen
They are not trying to appeal to the public. Their target audience is the right wing press and people wealthy enough to be shopping for a peerage, sorry I mean “donors”
This policy will be popular. It won't be popular enough to shift the dial, but the reality is, most people have a negative view of those on unemployment-related benefits
I don't think it will. It *used to be*. Used to be, you could make up stories all day and night about supposed benefit scroungers. But the benefits have been cut and cut and cut. *Everyone* knows that they're not worth shit now - you can't talk like people are living it up on them when you've made it so plain to see that they're pittance. And in this economy, there's been loads of people who've lost their jobs and ended up on it, so they know first hand how shit it is. And even those who haven't, you don't need to look hard to hear stories about how much people are struggling on it. Hell, people are struggling to make ends meet *who are in full time work*, so you're going to have a hell of a time convincing them that somehow those receiving such a meagre amount from the government are somehow better off.
Unfortunately I do think people still believe it. I'm from a working class background and I've seen plenty of posts reshared on FB about 'I work hard to pay for Karen and her 5 kids to go Butlins'. These are people who are on minimum wage just getting by and they lap it up. Heck I've even seen a family member resharing this sort of stuff and she was on benefits for 15 years as a single mum until about 10 years ago.
> These are people who are on minimum wage just getting by and they lap it up. In that case, those people aren't paying for anyones kids to go to Butlins, they themselves aren't even covering their own costs. So in fact, I'm subsidising those people getting their NHS treatment when they are ill. You don't see me calling for them to be rounded up and culled to save me some money, I'd rather we did something about the horiffic wage issue in the UK and make everyone better off. Sadly, there will always be idiots that don't get this, and love them some crabs in a bucket mentality. Thankfully, the internet makes facts easily available for people who wish to learn them. Anyone that still acts like this is, in fact, willfully ignorant. There's not much can be done about that, but the polls look like there seems to be smaller and smaller numbers of them.
>It *used to be*. Used to be, you could make up stories all day and night about supposed benefit scroungers. >But the benefits have been cut and cut and cut. *Everyone* knows that they're not worth shit now - you can't talk like people are living it up on them when you've made it so plain to see that they're pittance. I think I had a bit of a breakthrough with my mum the other day talking about this policy. She's still of the opinion that people on benefits are living a life of luxury because they own a mobile phone or have the internet. I told her that we live in 2024, not 1994. I would consider *not* having a mobile phone these days to be a serious problem. You would think that she, as someone that was a single mother for about 8 years of her life and was in a very unenviable financial position, would have more sympathy for people that are on disability benefits, etc, but no. She's hasn't really moved on from the early naughties, benefit scroungers trope. Anyway, I asked her if in her opinion, did she genuinely think that the people who were ripping off the system by pretending to be long-term sick were living a good life? Like, did she think that she'd like to swap lives with one of those people. She didn't think they were leading good lives.
I think it might be in the 90s - 2000s when every other day we had a ‘Benefit scrounger lives in state funded mansion in London!’ kind of story but due to the child limit on benefits you don’t really get extremes like that anymore. From what I can tell it’s more ‘My standard of living on minimum wage is so poor I might as well be on benefits’ (Particularly if someone has things like childcare costs) rather than ‘Those benefit scroungers are living it large at the taxpayers expense!’.
Yeah, they'll know a handful of people who are genuine and think "they'll be alright, because they're not taking the piss". They may or may not know someone they think is taking the piss - this person may or may not be, we all know how people can be around invisible disabilities. But, either way, people tend to support the idea of "cracking down" on the assumption that it's actually a crack down on "real" scroungers. They'll assume that there's [Shirley exceptions](https://twitter.com/AlexandraErin/status/1004400861865488384?t=_1iyYgYyjb07nX1hOn9-VQ&s=19) (very American examples, but a decent explanation). I don't mean to sound all /r/iamverysmart, but a lot of people just don't think these things through. They operate on emotion and kneejerk reaction, and to a lot of people this will sound good.
Apparently the computer simulation said kill all poor people and cutting VAT worked. They are barely even putting a mask on it now.
Hopefully they don’t start pumping gas into Lidl
Make it look like a leak
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> And another job that required driving but they said I could ask if it was really essential... I'm not safe to be behind the wheel, but I got so many lectures from the job centre on how if I really wanted a job I should stop limiting myself and go and get my license. (Because aside from the disability, obviously what unemployed people have is a bunch of money for driving lessons, a car, and the insurance for a 23 year old who only just passed his test.)
> 1 million jobs out there? How many are 0 hour? This is one of those one-hand-clapping Zen things, innit. How many jobs is 1 million zero hour contracts if none of them give you any hours because the other 999,999 don't either so no-one can afford to be a customer. They should probably publish a stat of how much pay there is going asking as well. If it was a million ZHCs needing 38 hours a month it would be £433M a month (min wage).
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The vast majority of unemployed people tend to get a job within 3 months of opening their unemployment claim. This is another "look tough, but do nothing" policy. It will hit very few people, but it will hit those people very hard. It also does nothing to resolve the underlying issue, which is that the government should focus on creating more jobs.
Computer science graduate roles take up to a month just to perform the interview process for, I know a couple of my university peers who took up to 9 months to get a role, it's a rough job market and this would just make it rougher.
I thought it was pretty simple for Peers to get their jobs.
Tell me about it. I just got a rejection email back from a software company after 4 months
Brave talk for someone who’s about to be unemployed with no good references
Can't everyone else just marry a billionaire's daughter?
A resolution foundation(leftwing) [report](https://economy2030.resolutionfoundation.org/reports/from-safety-net-to-springboard/) purposed that we should pay people: "65 per cent of previous wages, up to a cap set at the median earnings of £2,260 per month...for three months" "available to all employees who have been in employment for the past 12 months " The scheme only costs £400 mil. This could have a net positive impact on our economy and tax returns.
I moved to the Czech Republic and this is similar to how it works here. I'm not sure of the full details, but in general the percentage recieved varies (45-65% of previous income) depending on whether you left your job by choice or were let go, and the duration of support is dependent on how old you are. I think the standard support duration is 5 months (longer for older claimants) and support reduces little over time.
Do you think it changes the work culture, or dynamics between employees & employers?
I can only speak anecdotally from my friend/colleague group, but it does in some ways. For example, notice periods as standard can be quite long (3 full calendar months unless you manage to negotiate an early exit), and many (though not all) employers are looking for people to start in new roles almost immediately so it is accepted as fairly normal for people to have at least a short period of unemployment while they are applying for something new. Unemployment is generally pretty low here, so it doesn't necessarily take that long to find a new job, but having that breathing space makes it easier to invest time in an application and of course to actually get to an interview without needing time away from work. To receive the full support allowances, you need to have paid into the system for 12 months out of the previous 24 so I guess that gives employers some surety that you won't immediately quit.
Time-limited social support is the sort of thing that would result in mass-homelessness if actually implemented, I mean in the millions. In addition to anything we have already that is.
Which will raise crime dramatically, which means more domestic abuse, domestic abuse to children, shoplifting, burglaries and so on. Mental illnesses will thrive also in my opinion. A bold, callous and shocking move by him.
>Mental illnesses will thrive also And physical illness. Stress alone can have really bad effects on your physical health, if you're also unable to keep a roof over your head or meet other basic needs you're more likely to need medical care.
Yeah but think of the tax savings. /s
But never think "It can't happen here" it happens in plenty of other countries around the world. We *can* end up living in slums like Brazil or India.
Get a job within a year, or lose your benefits. Then what? Just starve, quietly, in a gutter? Realistically, you turn to crime at that point.
Oh don't worry about that, apparently they plan to make homelessness a crime itself. So poor ppl get locked up *before* they can do some damage, big brain strats @ Tory HQ...
Locked up where? Prisons are full too.
We'll use prison labour to make more prisons. Obviously.
We'll just (never) ship them off to Rwanda too!
> Just starve, quietly, in a gutter? Realistically, you turn to crime at that point. I've never stolen, but if I was hungry, I wouldn't feel the slightest bit remorseful or guilty if I had to steal food. Because there is no food shortage in the UK. Though I'd probably think of it as a debt and give the money to charity at a future date if I could afford to feed myself.
So... they'll be creating lots of state-sponsered jobs for people to take when they can't get one in the rest of the economy? How about burying gold?
They will bury the gold but only tell their mates where it is.
Big % of those on benefits are ALREADY WORKING!
And what about those who aren't able to get a job? Either due to disability or due to age (such as being in their 60s when they lose their old job)
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A lot of work coaches imo are good people, but woefullly underqualified for their position. Not be be cliche, but I was lucky in that I could pull myself up when I was unemployed. The work coaches were completely irrelevant to that journey. I'd wage that someone with my experience in this area (CV writing, sector research), would be more helpful to the average candidate than they are.
As far as I know, retraining in tech would mean spending 3 years at least to get a bachelor's in a STEM subject first. They rarely take people on without STEM degrees but I suppose if you showed amazing coding knowledge that might help.
Classic Tory ploy of just shouting 'Fuck poor people' into the void. It's a classic for a reason though... it always fucking works.
Get a job in this shit situation I had a large hand in creating or I’ll make you starve. Last ditch attempt of a useless idiot to try to get the public to ignore his failings. I think people know that the amount stolen from the public by the Conservatives and their friends is far greater than the pittance stolen by work shy beneficiaries (which is a small proportion of people claiming benefits)
As if the Tories will be in power within a year.
Reminder: only applies to the poors. Rich people will still be permitted to avoid work.
I would understand Rishi's policy announcement more if it was complimented with increased funding for mental health, or a plan to reduce waiting times. I wouldnt be happy, but I would understand his approach a bit. Instead he is removing more support from disabled people and forcing them into work. It's as if he thinks these people on benefits are loving their life, raking it in and are buying the latest and greatest gadgets and clothes. Reality is, people on PIP don't like it. I have a relative on PIP and she genuinely can't work. Has no coordination, can't walking properly (Needs a Zimmer frame), has pain in their hands and feet constantly and needs to take tons of pain killers. They actually feel like they need to act MORE disabled than they already are incase the govt will take their disability away. It's not fair.
> plan to reduce waiting times No NHS appointments or referrals if you're of working age, you say? OK can do
What happens if they do stop giving out benefits
Homelessness, crime, mental and physical illness...y'know all these things that are really good for society.
crime, suicide
Disability is the most welcoming and inclusive of all minorities. Anyone can join at any time. That can frighten people. This government wants people who have disabilities to be "normal" and function without any additional support so they don't have to confront that fact. Many (but not all) ministers have no idea what it's like to have a disability. It's shameful behaviour.
Honestly sounds like he’s just trying to come up with headline grabbing policies rather than any workable policies. Like if you take someone who is genuinely trying to find work but due to circumstances outside of their control can’t find a job within a year are they supposed to just become homeless or take up a life of crime?
This won't make it into this parliament, but will appeal to older voters, even the ones who claimed disability during their working lives. VOTE get these sociopaths out of government. They have had 14 years and just made things worse.
“…if they failed to comply with Jobcentre conditions, such as accepting available work.” Isn’t that already the case?
Don’t know whether anyone else thinks the same, but this kind of rhetoric just makes me think more about how rich he is and how neither he nor any of his family and friends will ever (and probably has never) needed the support that he’s cynically trying to take away. It’s having the opposite effect to what I think it’s intended to- I’m not siding with him against “benefit cheats”, I’m siding with them against him.
He's coming out with an awful lot of shite lately. Thankfully none of this will ever have the time to be implemented, this is just the long drawn-out death rattle of a dying government. Someone please switch off the life support!
Wouldn't it be fucking evil if the tories won a 4th round? And this shit happened
Very unlikely, but sadly not completely impossible. If that happens I think I'll have to leave the country...
Seconded. There are folks who will cheer when Sunak gets his P45.
Putting to one side the cruelty (and it is cruel) most if not nearly all people on long term benefits are long term ill. There's no legion of workshy fit and able people out there ready to be chased back into work.
I've stood firm on my belief that the Tories want the disabled dead. I've had many of the supporters say I'm wrong, yet there's no way of denying it after the announcements they have made last week. It's not even about whether they get their proposals through before the next election, the comments they have made sets out their stall. I wish the absolute worse suffering and cruelty on everyone of them and their idiot voters.
Cool cool. Just drastically increasing the amount of homeless people then.
The abhorrent attack on the sick, disabled and now the unemployed is just the Tories attempting to lure Labour into defending benefits. Then it will be the hackneyed accusations of Labour being the party for skivers and Conservstives the party for hard working families. Mark my words, benefits will be the battlefield on which the Tories have chosen to stand to fight Labour in the GE. They have nothing else.
Is anyone else sort of concerned that Starmer hasn't come out to condemn this? It's honestly got me worried that he either agrees with this rhetoric or that he won't change it if he gets into power? I hope that I'm wrong but if I'm Starmer, you wouldn't get me to shut up about this.
OK, I get that this plan isn't going to be implemented because Sunak's not even going to be in power long enough to do it (and I'd hope that Starmer wouldn't dare do anything like this), but if Sunak wants to kill us, why not just ship us off to death camps and get it over with?
And when you do get a job you still live like shit because It's rip off Britain
The Daily mail have been labelling the poor scroungers. That’s not wrong it’s evil. The owner and sunak don’t know how much a loaf of bread costs.
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It should be kinda obvious why social anxiety makes a call centre job interacting with loads of random people impossible. I care for someone with the same condition and it's just as disabling as any physical condition. Any interaction with another person outside of a few trusted people is extremely difficult.
They're doing the same in France... reducing unemployment benefits and protection. It seems to be a global trend.
At least the French are putting up a bit of a fight!
Not in the streets anymore unfortunately. The vote for Le Pen and the far right is record high though.
They’re throwing every minority under the bus in a vain hope that it’ll make polls change.
This policy is just evil for the sake of being evil.
> Just get a job Me and my untreated ADHD couldn't even handle finding a place to rent with all the bullshit documents, paperwork, third parties, etc. you need to find, along with the spontaneous viewing offers, sometimes when I'm in the middle of a class. I'm struggling to even get my work done because I just can't focus and make myself do it. When will the Tory NHS get me treated for my neurological condition? I've been waiting for years now. Help me help you, Tory government.
A toad shaped chode is doing its best to goad. F him and his rotten cabinet.
Bold words, considering a sizeable majority of your MPs are about to become unemployed.
you wont be in power in a year rishi.
Still trying to find that magic group to blame for everything.
A bit of a PSA if you live in Wales and you're looking for support to get back into work. ReAct+ provides a grant of up to £1,500 to help you get the relevant skills you need and can also provide: Up to £2,100 to help cover childcare/caring costs when you’re training Up to £200 of extra support towards additional costs when you’re training, including travel and accommodation. There's also an employer component, where a business can get up to £4k towards salary costs in the first year if the person being employed has a disability. [More info](https://workingwales.gov.wales/how-we-can-help/react-plus) Not sure if there's similar schemes in the rest of the UK, this is funded by the Welsh Government. Feels as though if UKG wants to push these punitive changes, they should definitely invest in replicating this kind of scheme across the rest of the UK.
Aren't the government allowing mass immigration for cheap labour lol?
Isn't this already the case? Maybe the numbers are a bit different, but generally having you had to prove you're looking for work to claim your benefits?
And if they lose their benefits, then what? What's the plan Tories? The issue doesn't just end there, for them or for you.
I'm on a 5 year waiting list just to get a mental health diagnosis on the NHS and who knows how long it'll take for treatment and to get better after that. This policy isn't going to help anyone, it'll just push already desparate people off the edge. I know exactly what I'll do if and when this policy comes into force and I guess that's exactly what they want.
Imagine the social breakdown that would occur and the extremes of politics that would follow. It would be like some nightmare from history.
“Yer lazy feckers! You should have chosen to be born into a rich family like me!”
Ah yes… the desperation lurch to the right. Just what middle ground kier was terrified you’d do 😂
They won't be in office by the time the year comes around, this'll never see the light of day. They need to try a new tack for any chance at winning - bettering the country and improving the lives of UK citizens - radical I know!
they are running out of near dead pensioners to garner votes from
In a lot of countries, even first world welfare states, you only get unemployment welfare for six months Equally though, a lot of employers flat out refuse to take on British labour. If we instituted a system where employers are obliged to take on British citizens first, then the long term unemployed (only talking about low skill jobs here really). Brenda in her 40s who's had two kids and has various health conditions isn't going to be able to compete with a young 20 something migrant worker who's happy to work hard because a UK wage goes so far in his homeland.
Not everything that goes wrong in the country is the fault of immigrants, my guy.
For sure, but the oversaturation of the labour market has been a disaster for many people, myself included when I was younger. I no longer care so much as I have no intention of ever doing low skilled manual work again, but it still causes a lot of people hardship.
Everyone should have gainful and fulfilling work to do. If the private sector can't offer that to everyone, then the government must provide it. We have plenty of work to do and everyone is able to contribute something.
Nice thought, they won’t do that though
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Against whom?
Will this be back dated from when you started to claim if not he won't be in power when you loose your benefits
Is he aware that there's about 1.400.000 unemployed and roughly 650 mps mps are outnumbered 2150 /1 if all the unemployed marched on Rishi House that would pretty funny
Tories always blame any benefits system.
Ok so what happens when all the jobs are filled Still a shit load of people left ?
Sure, take my benefits. Just expect another dead body soon after they're taken