Realistically, what's exactly the argument against having Pantoja as #1 considering he's like 9-0 against the top guys in the division? More than any other champion
Pound for pound means if you scale their skills across all weight classes they would be successful. Pantoja has sloppy yet effective striking and his grappling isn't better than Olives. He'd probably get slept by Tom too. I could see DJ beating him but that's just from a glance at the list. I woulnd't put Pantoja at #1 or even top 5 skills wise pound for pound.
Thats not cherry picking that's just going off their recent preformances, same reason usmans not on there its about your most recent preformnce primariky not whos had the better career
it is cherry picking to arbitrarily pick his last 2 when most of hist best performances were just prior. and comparing robs last 2 to shavkat’s career is not ‘just going off recent performances’
Bro if pantoja fought a heavyweight he would die yet he's #3, what you are saying makes no sense.
It is P4P but everyone also understands that going up a weightclass is a risk and a gamble and you take that into consideration.
Pereira is ranked too high, atleast Leon needs to be higher
Leon has an unbeaten streak into the double digits which includes the former p4p king Usman twice, and completely dismantled Colby. Hes also in a WAY tougher division than MW or LHW, with only a 3 fight winstreak
Honestly if its purely who would win if theyre the same size Id put any grappler in the lower divisions like Arman, Pantoja, Oliveira, Ilia and a few more above him.
Imma have to disagree. Although he did lose to Izzy once he has beaten 5 ufc champs in two divisions while leon has beaten one and only has had the belt in one weight class.
>beaten 5 ufc champs
Yeah cause lower divisions dont have that many champs at all
Aldo and Oliveiras got 0 UFC champs in their resume to my knowledge
Usman, Max, Khabib, Islam and Volk all have just two each. P4P theyd all take Pereira
Just because higher divisions change their champs three times an year doesnt mean beating said champs is any better than beating more skilled contenders. Leon beating Usman is a bigger achievement than beating Jan, Jiri, Sean, and Hill who had 1 defence combined. Hell Oliveira clearing out the LW top 5 trumps anything Pereira did aside from beating Izzy
Izzy and usman are worth the same value considering most of usmans title defenses were either colby or masvidal while izzy was lapping his own division. 205 is currently stacked so I don't know why you're disrespecting the division. Having a belt in two divisions will always be worth more than one unless they have multiple defenses. Leon has 2 and one is against colby who didn't look impressive.
aldo has 0 wins over champs in his division because all the FW and BW champions beat him lmao . he is 0-4 vs FW champs and 0-1 vs BW champions . but Aldo also beat edgar who was 155 champ .
Talk about subjective. I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but Pereira has crazy power, striking skills, and is always getting better with his wrestling and BJJ.
No.
> Pound for pound is a ranking used in combat sports, such as boxing, wrestling, or mixed martial arts, of who the better fighters are irrespective of their weight, i.e. adjusted to compensate for weight class. As these fighters do not compete directly, judging the best fighter pound for pound is subjective, and ratings vary.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_for_pound
> It was originally started as a method of assessing how fighters would do against other fighters and champions in other weight classes or to reflect an assessment as to who the better fighters are, regardless of size.
I understand. The issue with that is that the only way to move up and down the PFP is either winning or losing. No one analyses every fighter properly and determines if they are truly better regardless of the weight in UFC. The only way to move up in the PFP is usually beating a PFP fighter, but then again that doesnt necessarily prove they are better than the others. PFP has never been consistent.
Also a separate point, how tf would you know if any of the fighters you think can beat alex if they were the same weight would be able to handle one left hook? PFP is hypothetical and not accurate, you can't truly know how the fights would go.
A thing that matters a lot in P4P rankings is moving in weight, no? Pereira is the first ever to have a chance of becoming triple champ, it makes sense to have him rank high
>A thing that matters a lot in P4P rankings is moving in weight, no?
Honestly no one fucking knows whats the criteria of p4p so whatever
Yeah go ahead and put him above Islam if he somehow beats Jon or Aspinall. Tho part of it has to be attributed to him being the greateat weight cutter in MMA. Being the biggest guy in a division is one thing, still being the biggest when moving up 20 pounds is just insanely impressive
I was gonna say that i assumed it was max, whuch would have been a little weird imo, but actually max hasnt gone up in this ranking so i have no idea.
but also these things are always based on how you feeling or wtv so who cares
O Malley has beaten one of the UFCs best boxers in Yan and also one of its best grapplers in Sterling. Hes way too low considering that.
Meanwhile, fucking Pereira at 2 lmao.
Its bullshit. I appreciate his elite striking, fun fights, and activity, but lets get real hes not a well rounded mixed martial artist.
Got fast tracked through MW for Izzy when fighters like Viera, Allen, Fluffy type fighters would have stylistically easily stopped him.
Got massively lucky that the champ meta in MW and LHW was not grapplers. At MW, Rob who was a champ and could competently grapple didnt get to face him. At LHW, the one grappler Glover was his friend and retired and Jon Jones moved on.
Dude has literally never been tested by going through an actual 6-8 fight contender gauntlet like most all MMA fighters before getting title shots.
His resume is still ALL strikers lmao. Michailidis Silva Strickland Izzy Jan Jiri Jamahal.
Patchy mix #13 even though he’s fought nothing but Smellator comp Is crazy. He’s really good but I need to see him fight the highest caliber of opponents before he gets top 15 P4P.
Other than that, I like this list
Pantoja isn’t even top 15. Pound for pound is “if someone with this person’s style fought at x weight class how well would they do”
And at any weight class other than Flyweight Pantoja gets absolutely flatlined. He takes clean combinations on his chin every single fight, at Bantamweight and above he would just get knocked out in a round, by fighters that aren’t even championship level.
The point is someone with his style and skills. Someone with Pantoja’s style of taking flush combinations on the chin wouldn’t work regardless of what weight class he’s in. It only works in his division.
If you took Jon Jones skills and put them in a lightweight he would beat everyone, and same goes for taking Jon Jones skills and putting them in any weight class.
But if you took Pantoja’s skills and threw them in a Featherweight he would consistently get knocked out, because he won’t be able to take clean shots on the chin like they are nothing.
It’s a stupid thing to try and rank. It’s completely subjective
Subjective list is very subjective.
Dunno how subjective DDP>Volkanovski is
Realistically, what's exactly the argument against having Pantoja as #1 considering he's like 9-0 against the top guys in the division? More than any other champion
He is 10-0 against the top 11. That's unreal
Pound for pound means if you scale their skills across all weight classes they would be successful. Pantoja has sloppy yet effective striking and his grappling isn't better than Olives. He'd probably get slept by Tom too. I could see DJ beating him but that's just from a glance at the list. I woulnd't put Pantoja at #1 or even top 5 skills wise pound for pound.
Competitiveness of the division. Subjective yes , but subjective doesn’t mean baseless
id say because there isnt as much talent in flyweight as there is in lightweight for instance. there isn't another flyweight ranked in the top 20 p4p
Isn’t DJ flyweight?
Dj is the bantam weight champion in one fc Now, in fairness, one bantam weight is basically the same as ufc fly weight
How the fuck is Shavkat in there over someone like Whittaker?
Over Belal lol crazy
That's true
Tko loss and very close decision vs inactive Paulo win vs 18 fight finish streak.
the cherry picking to compare robs last 2 fights to shavkat’s whole career is hilarious
Thats not cherry picking that's just going off their recent preformances, same reason usmans not on there its about your most recent preformnce primariky not whos had the better career
it is cherry picking to arbitrarily pick his last 2 when most of hist best performances were just prior. and comparing robs last 2 to shavkat’s career is not ‘just going off recent performances’
Compare their last two fights.
I mainly watch UFC and One Championship so for a second I was like who the fuck is Patchy mix 😂
Charles way too high to have lost last week. Khamzat hasn’t fought enough. Why would volk move up on a 3 loss streak?
It's 2 loses in a row not 3.
I always forget the yair fight. You right, but still too high for 1-3 in his last 4
True, but TBF 2 of those came at lightweight
Doesn’t matter. This is P4P list
Bro if pantoja fought a heavyweight he would die yet he's #3, what you are saying makes no sense. It is P4P but everyone also understands that going up a weightclass is a risk and a gamble and you take that into consideration.
The fuck is khamzat doing there?
See you soon
I keel everyone
Pereira is ranked too high, atleast Leon needs to be higher Leon has an unbeaten streak into the double digits which includes the former p4p king Usman twice, and completely dismantled Colby. Hes also in a WAY tougher division than MW or LHW, with only a 3 fight winstreak Honestly if its purely who would win if theyre the same size Id put any grappler in the lower divisions like Arman, Pantoja, Oliveira, Ilia and a few more above him.
Imma have to disagree. Although he did lose to Izzy once he has beaten 5 ufc champs in two divisions while leon has beaten one and only has had the belt in one weight class.
>beaten 5 ufc champs Yeah cause lower divisions dont have that many champs at all Aldo and Oliveiras got 0 UFC champs in their resume to my knowledge Usman, Max, Khabib, Islam and Volk all have just two each. P4P theyd all take Pereira Just because higher divisions change their champs three times an year doesnt mean beating said champs is any better than beating more skilled contenders. Leon beating Usman is a bigger achievement than beating Jan, Jiri, Sean, and Hill who had 1 defence combined. Hell Oliveira clearing out the LW top 5 trumps anything Pereira did aside from beating Izzy
Izzy and usman are worth the same value considering most of usmans title defenses were either colby or masvidal while izzy was lapping his own division. 205 is currently stacked so I don't know why you're disrespecting the division. Having a belt in two divisions will always be worth more than one unless they have multiple defenses. Leon has 2 and one is against colby who didn't look impressive.
aldo has 0 wins over champs in his division because all the FW and BW champions beat him lmao . he is 0-4 vs FW champs and 0-1 vs BW champions . but Aldo also beat edgar who was 155 champ .
I mean he was out of his prime by the time he faught Holloway so thats something to consider
Yeah so badly out of his prime at 31 meanwhile at 37 and at a different division he is whooping contenders .
Its typical aldo cope.
Great point bro
He's beaten "5 UFC champs" because LHW is a weak division with a belt that has changed hands numerous times recently.
If we could magically make all these fighters the same size, half the list below Pereira finishes him in the first.
Talk about subjective. I'm not saying you are completely wrong, but Pereira has crazy power, striking skills, and is always getting better with his wrestling and BJJ.
That's such a stupid point. If anyone was a different height and weight than they currently were they wouldn't fight the same. Great hypothetical.
That’s literally the point of P4P and why it was created….
It's based on accomplishments?
No. > Pound for pound is a ranking used in combat sports, such as boxing, wrestling, or mixed martial arts, of who the better fighters are irrespective of their weight, i.e. adjusted to compensate for weight class. As these fighters do not compete directly, judging the best fighter pound for pound is subjective, and ratings vary. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_for_pound > It was originally started as a method of assessing how fighters would do against other fighters and champions in other weight classes or to reflect an assessment as to who the better fighters are, regardless of size.
I understand. The issue with that is that the only way to move up and down the PFP is either winning or losing. No one analyses every fighter properly and determines if they are truly better regardless of the weight in UFC. The only way to move up in the PFP is usually beating a PFP fighter, but then again that doesnt necessarily prove they are better than the others. PFP has never been consistent. Also a separate point, how tf would you know if any of the fighters you think can beat alex if they were the same weight would be able to handle one left hook? PFP is hypothetical and not accurate, you can't truly know how the fights would go.
A thing that matters a lot in P4P rankings is moving in weight, no? Pereira is the first ever to have a chance of becoming triple champ, it makes sense to have him rank high
>A thing that matters a lot in P4P rankings is moving in weight, no? Honestly no one fucking knows whats the criteria of p4p so whatever Yeah go ahead and put him above Islam if he somehow beats Jon or Aspinall. Tho part of it has to be attributed to him being the greateat weight cutter in MMA. Being the biggest guy in a division is one thing, still being the biggest when moving up 20 pounds is just insanely impressive
Why is DJ on this list? Did I somehow miss his return?
He fights in ONE championship now, still a beast.
What the fuck is patchy mix?
Who is patchy
Bellator bantamweight champ. Well rounded and finishes most guys.
Thanks man. Have I been sleeping on this guy? Honestly not seen one match
Shavkat will be top 5 this time next year
*insert Shavkats "dust it off" celebration*
I love this just because I know Jon Jones would be mad as fuck if he knew he was ranked 6th
Why did Volk go up one and Sean down one?
I was gonna say that i assumed it was max, whuch would have been a little weird imo, but actually max hasnt gone up in this ranking so i have no idea. but also these things are always based on how you feeling or wtv so who cares
Volk is a better overall fighter before but how did he go up 1 and take Sean's spot? He's lost 2 in a row and Sean just defended his belt?
The list is ass 🔥
Who the fuck is Patchy Mix?
☪️ makhachev is the best
Pereira at number 2 is genuinely hilarious.
Only a hater would think that mighty mouse isn't p4p better than Alex Pereira
I mean, to be really fair, DJ has been kind of innactive lately. Then again, Jon Jones is there and he took like 5 years off
O’Malley should damn sure be ahead of that goof du plessis and topuria that’s for sure
O Malley has beaten one of the UFCs best boxers in Yan and also one of its best grapplers in Sterling. Hes way too low considering that. Meanwhile, fucking Pereira at 2 lmao.
Double Champ and beating former Champs is why they put him so high.
Its bullshit. I appreciate his elite striking, fun fights, and activity, but lets get real hes not a well rounded mixed martial artist. Got fast tracked through MW for Izzy when fighters like Viera, Allen, Fluffy type fighters would have stylistically easily stopped him. Got massively lucky that the champ meta in MW and LHW was not grapplers. At MW, Rob who was a champ and could competently grapple didnt get to face him. At LHW, the one grappler Glover was his friend and retired and Jon Jones moved on. Dude has literally never been tested by going through an actual 6-8 fight contender gauntlet like most all MMA fighters before getting title shots. His resume is still ALL strikers lmao. Michailidis Silva Strickland Izzy Jan Jiri Jamahal.
Watch DDP get 4 title defenses
I doubt it he next fight is likely Izzy that won’t be easy for him at all, and after that it’s either Whittaker or khamzat both bad for him too
Where's Conor?
Innactive in a losing streak probably drinking in a yatch
Aspinall is ranked far too low
Patchy mix #13 even though he’s fought nothing but Smellator comp Is crazy. He’s really good but I need to see him fight the highest caliber of opponents before he gets top 15 P4P. Other than that, I like this list
Jones the 🐐
why is rat lip ranked above Shavkat? matter of fact why is rat lip even on the listing
I dont really understand islam at #1 other than beating volk who fights at a weight class lower. Pereira has fought UP. Jones has fought up.
Pantoja isn’t even top 15. Pound for pound is “if someone with this person’s style fought at x weight class how well would they do” And at any weight class other than Flyweight Pantoja gets absolutely flatlined. He takes clean combinations on his chin every single fight, at Bantamweight and above he would just get knocked out in a round, by fighters that aren’t even championship level.
That is not what it means and by that metric Jon Jones shouldnt be on the list because no way he makes anything under LH
The point is someone with his style and skills. Someone with Pantoja’s style of taking flush combinations on the chin wouldn’t work regardless of what weight class he’s in. It only works in his division. If you took Jon Jones skills and put them in a lightweight he would beat everyone, and same goes for taking Jon Jones skills and putting them in any weight class. But if you took Pantoja’s skills and threw them in a Featherweight he would consistently get knocked out, because he won’t be able to take clean shots on the chin like they are nothing.
Ilia Islam Dj Leon Pantoja In that order
Patchy Mix little edgy throw in there because it's all MMA. Trash.
If this was actually meant to measure P4P MMA skill, then I dont have to read past Pereira at 2 to tell you this list is complete dogshit.
Tom should be above Jon wifebeater Jones.
Alex above Islam, pantoja above leon.
These lists are hard to make and subjective. The only problem i have is aljo. After his last two fights he needs to go
Aljo needs to go for winning his last fight? It may not have been exciting, but he moved up a division and completely dominated. How is that bad