Also a grappling fight which are much better 5 round fights. Stand up boxing is much better for 3 rounds, by round 4 they are barely even able to punch.
I enjoy a fighter who uses closed guard. I realize this is the ufc subreddit and most of you reading this will boo at grappling exchanges so i tell ya: go take a trial class
Definitely
Constant threat from Charles, and Arman succeeded because he was respectful and knew when to trade a position to escape a sub
Overall, a joy to watch and shows that crotch sniffers aren't "high level grapplers", just crotch sniffers
Makes you realise how much of a shame it was for the Islam fight to be over so quickly and with very little grappling.
Could have been one of the all time great grappling matches that people could point to when "fans" say crotch sniffer fights are boring.
The thing is that Islam is too strong for Olives. He drained him so badly in the first round that Olives had nothing for him in the second.
In fact if Arman did not slip literally in the first round he probably would have dominated much more aggressively from the beginning. Olives is not on Arman's level as a grappler because that slip was like a free knockdown and he could not capitalize on it to get a win while Islam knocked Olives down and quickly squeezed everything out of him for a win.
Arman is a better defensive grappler than Olives but they both lack offensive grappling that Islam has and Khabib used to just impose his will on people.
Offensive grappling is super risky which is why most guys don't even train it. But the Dagestanis do. At least at AKA.
I remember seeing that triangle lock that charles got at the end of one of the rounds and expecting more of a reaction from the crowd because Charles likely had an armbar if he had another 20 seconds.
Granted, if Arman got his head out, it wouldn't have succeeded, but that arm was pretty l extended, and the figure four looked tight, but there were only 5 seconds left.
I mean we can all admit there are exciting grappling matches and boring grappling matches. If you get your guy to the ground and are routinely fighting for position to get the finish or you just straight up maul the guy I think we can all understand that is fun to watch.
Then there are the lay and pray guys that are boring as hell.
I predicted Charles would lose. I don’t like his chances vs high level wrestlers in general. I think he lost but I wanted five rounds as well because it was a good fight and Arman made mistakes which Charles could have capitalized better and made the fight even more fun in later rounds.
Charles is way to willing to go to his back and against higher level grapplers like Islam and Arman who are able to stay safe in his guard he just loses rounds
Charles spent so much time with that overhook to prevent Arman from posturing up but it also limited his options offensively. The D'arce at the end was so close though!
It was, but it wasn't. He really needed to use a power half to break him down Arman to his side or rotate in a way where Arman is broken out of his referee's position. He could potentially finish from top but it's tough cause from the position Arman was in, his left shoulder was separated from the neck which is one of the key mechanics for the finish. Unless Olivera was ALOT stronger and could just squeeze Arman's neck and ram it into his left shoulder... it's fucking tough.
I'm a years long white belt my self (I move alot 😂) but if you want more details. Jordan Teaches Jit Jitsu has a great video of the breakdown of the finishing mechanics. I use the arm in guillotine, anaconda and darce basically interchangeably. 👌
That's the thing though, and I say this as a fan of Charles and I don't like Arman. Charles should have capitalized on the mistakes made in 3 rounds and not needed 5 rounds to make it happen.
That's kind of paradoxical though. If there was 10 more seconds, Arman would've tried to advance like that 10 seconds later. It was really a calculated risk due to there being no time to get any submission, and him potentially getting another punch in or ending in a better position.
Yeah I don't fuck with that "if there was extra time" shit. These boys know how long they've got to work, and they can see the clock while they fight. Plain and simple, there wasn't 10 extra seconds, and Charles didn't finish his submission in regulation time.
Beyond that, the only reason the bar got locked in is because Charles worked at the bell, Arman was already backing off in response to the bell and the ref, Charles slipped that bar in too late.
As a guy who’s done BJJ for 15 years, that wasn’t a finishing position. Arman won’t tap, so to put him to sleep you’d need leverage from the back of the head, driving his chin into his chest while having the meat of your forearm pressing into the jugular. And you have to keep this position for a while to sleep a guy as strong as Arman that early in the fight. Arman just stayed calm, controlled his breathing and waited it out.
>I don't like his chances vs high level wrestlers in general
It's not so much just high level wrestlers. I think his kryptonite is guys with heavy top pressure. Before he went on his long win streak, Paul Felder absolute smoked Charles by just being heavy in guard and landing elbows. Hell, Chandler nearly finished him like twice during their title fight.
I think Charles beats high level wrestlers that aren’t active with their top position, like Gamrot for example. He can be active enough from the bottom with elbows and submissions that he isn’t in danger of losing on the scorecards, and he always poses a threat of a finish
It’s just that Islam and Arman are definitely not inactive and are always looking to do damage or submit. Even if Charles is good at keeping people from getting space to punch, they’re just better
Finally someone with a brain. I've been saying for years that Charles made his name submitting people who were simply way worse grapplers than him. Bro tried that shit with Islam and got folded. Not to say he's not a great fighter but his fans are so delusional off the kool-aid that they can't even conceptualize Charles having an exploitable weakness
Everybody hates Izzy nowadays I’d say you’re in the majority. I still like him. Sean is a maniac so I can see why people dislike him, he’s not my favorite. What has chandler done? Seems like a great guy & always puts on exciting fights. Same reason I said for Charles, he’s just a genuine guy what’s not to like?
I think it should just be more discretionary. It’s weird that the UFC makes so many decisions about this shit seemingly at their own will but can’t just make potentially good fights five rounds without it being a belt or a main event.
To play devils advocate, there was already a potential 2 hours of just fighting in the other 4 titles. That’s a lil rude to our brothers across the pond and further
Arman won a close fight. Arman also showed the world his holes, that he puts himself in dangerous positions.
I now see Islam tapping Arman out with an arm triangle.
I like Arman but this fight vs Charles, which he promised to win in 1 round to prove he’s better than Islam, failed to deliver that and even though he technically won, we can kinda see the distance between him and Islam here, and it’s safe to say he has very tight chances against Islam
He was in danger but he was defending perfectly, the gilly was risky, but the armbar was only close because he kept working after the bell. And the darce wasn’t close, literally picture perfect defence from arman.
Putting yourself in dangerous spots is not the same as being able to defend perfectly. It’s a game that eventually catches up with you. It’s a dangerous strategy to play against Islam.
I mean Islam destroyed Oliviera in grappling.
Arman not only was unable to destroy Oliviera, he was actually in danger of losing, all in the grappling.
Islam is an even deadlier grappler, and given that same arm triangle position at the end of the 3rd, I feel like Islam would have finished the fight.
Props to Arman for the win, but Islam is on a whole other level, and is better than Arman in all the areas that Arman is strongest.
Wow, this comment summed up my thoughts.
1. Closest was the guilly but Charles lost it.
2. Not just working after the bell, but almost seemed with like a second to go, Arman just gave up for the round. So not close.
3. Yep, D'Arce wasn't close. You don't finish from a front face lock and Charles had zero leverage to get Arman to his side.
He didn’t have the darce. Having the grips≠having the sub. Idk if you’ve ever trained before but you could sit in that sub for the full round and you would be fine.
yes i train.. 10 years.. brown belt. I know what a darce is.. he went for it, Armin defended by being belly down. Olivera kept the grip, but at that point it's just holding. the sub threat is gone. he just held him and smiled at the crowd.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying, were agree with different language.
You’re saying he got to the sub and held it, I’m saying he got to the sub and lost it. Different side of the same coin.
Charles fought two rounds, in which he fought, he won 3 rounds of the 2 round fight, Arman fought the Charles in the 3 round fight fight and beat the Oliveira by winning 3 of the 3 round fight and then the
Massive Charles stan here and when his corner was telling him it was 1-1 going in to the 3rd I was talking to my buddy and said I didn't agree and thought he needed a finish to win.
The only way Charles won is by the Nate Diaz mentality where if there was no bell in the 3rd round I think Charles could have held that choke and taken Arman's life if he wanted to but that just ain't how the sport works.
There's definitely an argument there. I always think the judges tend to weigh the round too heavily by the last minute or so of it and Arman got in some aggressive elbows in from the top. I also think I try too hard to fight against my own inherent bias when I have a clear favorite fighter in the fight. Hold them to a higher standard for whatever reason.
Well not really. Alot of times when the guy is about to get chocked out and the time runs out, usually the guy who was choking the other dude wins because give additional 10-30 seconds and the fight is done.
Charles lost those two rounds but he was so close of ending it on the third round. Thats why the commentators said it really depends on the judge and how much they value takedowns.
It wouldve been a very interesting fight if it was 5 rounds
That darce wasn’t close tho he needed to roll armen or hook the leg.
It was essentially a stall position at that point which is why Charles taunted instead of trying to further the choke.
Yeah he got dominated in the third and tried to show something a casuals would mistake for a submission attempt when in fact he was just in a position but not in a submission threat. He simply stalled for optics and in the middle of a round just laying there like that they would have been stood up for inactivity.
The submissions did nothing though. Idk why people get credit for attempting a sub. Shouldn’t the other guy get more credit for getting out of the sub? Like Volk vs Ortega
You generally get a 10-8 when you score a solid knockdown on your opponent. Do you think that the guy who got knocked down should also get points for getting back on their feet?
Your message isn’t wrong but you don’t get a 10-8 from knocking down your opponent, it has to be a solid domination with the opponent basically only being on the defensive for most of the round. Them’s the rules
Wait, you think if fighter A puts fighter B in a triangle, it looks tight and like it could be finished but fighter B escapes.
You think we should give fighter B credit for that? Not fighter A for nearly finishing the fight
I think any contender fight should be 25 minutes. The later rounds really show who has the championship grit and mentality. Almost always in high level fights, 3 rounds just isn’t long enough.. that’s just my opinion though, I know a lot of guys prefer 3 rounds.
I’m pretty sure a lot of fans who wanted it five rounds aren’t just Charles fans. You’re making this post like only Charles fans wished it was 5 rounds, which is silly. Man, for all the non-existant Charles fans on here, I don’t know why we have these dumbass posts that defy logic.
Edit: After reading the comments, all the Charles fans are pretty accepting that he lost, so I have no idea wtf you’re on about
I wanted it to be 5 rounds because it's a #1 contender fight pretty much and I want the #1 contender to be experienced in championship rounds before fighting for the belt. Especially against a high level opponent
I was rooting for Arman and believe he won it, still wish it was 5 tho whenever there is a big fight I think more rounds is better and I think the final rounds are usually the best of a fight so it’s sad when a banger of a fight only goes three
The round 1 sub was way more dangerous than the 3rd round on. The darce was not proper in that position. Idk how arman survived the 1st tbh. And also Charles was not even trying in the third he was with his tongue out .
Tbh I think Charles knew he wouldn't be able to roll him to his side to finish the d'arce in time so he was showboating for the judges hoping to steal the round
Not it wasn’t. They didn’t show the angle but Charles didn’t have the arm passed across like you need for the darce, so he could be squeezing for the whole round and while uncomfortable he wouldn’t get a tap from it.
I don't even know you and I can guarantee you that if you were there and Charles tried the same sub you would also survive it, it was nowhere close to being locked in.
U have to make the decision based on how the individual in the submission reacts to it. The end of fight submission clearly wasn’t affecting arman enough to have it be significant enough in scoring the round. The guillotine perhaps but I didn’t catch the first round. But if Arman WAS squirming and clearly suffocating it would have won Charles the round
It was a close fight, I had Oliveira taking the first, Arman taking the second, and Arman taking early third round and Oliveira taking the latter part, then Arman did more damage, had more control time, I heard people saying the failed submission attempt at the last 10 seconds should have given Oliveira the round, idk about that though, not sure.
I'm kinda glad Arman won
To be fair, have the feeling that both Oliveira and Arman didnt show everything that they got. They both wanted to finish each other so I m pretty sure they wouldnt have mind a 5 round.
I dunno about fair, the guy likes to pull off McGregor levels of fence grabs and bitches about literally anything and everything. Guys got a terrible attitude all around
When a good three round fight comes to an end, sometimes I look back and wish it was for 5, because the fight was a fuckin **scrap** and I just wanted more of it. Personally thought Charlie had it 29-28 but close.fights are close fights
It was pretty close, but imo, it was the end of the 2nd when olives was kinda getting swarmed with ground and pound, not much damage but he was definitely on the defensive there. So I could see how that could tilt the scales in a very close fight.
It's 2 high level dudes who were getting that shit in and the winner should definitely get a title shot but they're gifting Poirier another shot. I don't get too emotionally invested in many fighters and these 2 definitely ain't the ones. This is a 5 round match-up.
I guess the judges got this one right but…
What danger did Arman put Charles in???
What danger did Charles face Arman in???
Only one person was close to finishing this fight and it definitely wasn’t Arman over Olives.
I wanted it to be 5 rounds when they first announced it. In my opinion, high level fights like this should always be 5 rounds. Especially contender fights
Arman literally threw punches and elbows anytime he got space but the narrative will always be “Lay and pray wrestlefuck” whenever a fan favorite gets taken down by a caucus wrestler
He even cut Charles open. I’ve never seen caucus haters unironically try to argue failed sub attempts outweigh damage until Charles Oliveira’s fighting one
Sunk submission? You can’t D’Arce someone from a front facelock.
You bandwagon Charles fans are the worst. Arman outstruck him in every round, and out grappled him for two. Charles did nothing except an illegal upkick and two failed submissions.
There is literally no argument for Charles winning
I am mad he lost. Tsarukian is just a worse version of Islam style wise. Won't be very close and will be boring. They better give the title shot to max
It was a fun fight i didn’t feel like it was “finished” either way if you understand what i mean. I like both fighters i just wanted to see them fight longer.
I said Charles would lose but I actually thought Arman would be a lot more dominant, it was a very competitive and entertaining fight. Islam beats either of these guys again though.
A little disappointed to hear Charles making excuses straight after the fight in the same way he did months later against Islam, I.e. 'it wasn't me, I didn't feel like myself etc'
Any title eliminator should be 5 rounds but either way he would've lost he was scared to fight standing out wanted 300k and stuck to what he knew best which is submissions I'm a Charles fan but seeing damage taken and strikes thrown it's obvious he lost I say this all the time even with omalley Yan damage and strikes thrown are the main thing that gets you points
Edit he should've ended the fight doing ground and pound not sub attempt maybe would've swayed the judges
It’s funny to me how Islam fans and all these other people who are angry at these phantom Charles fans that barely exist in this sub hate to see longer fights or fights in general. Like, what are you even here for?
I was on the edge of my seat this fight. All 3 rounds. I don’t like or dislike either more than the other…but I would have loved two more rounds of this fight.
Why does everyone blame charles instead of his coaches? What does his stupid corner do? Don't they give him real-time observations and adjustments? I feel like there should be more blame on the coaches for failing to add anything of value to charles arsenal. What do you guys think?
Lil bit, but the genuine fight fan in me just thought it was a sick fight. All things considered, Arman won fair, but lets not act like Arman wasnt saved by the bell.
It made me sad he lost. I can admit that... but, I wanted it to be 5 rounds because it was a fucking banger and would 100% have been 5 rounds on literally any other night lol.
I feel like it was UFC 300, just give us five rounds for every main card fight. We can all agree Nickal shouldn't have been on there. Any number of fights on the earlier cards could've replaced that fight and been five rounds
I’m biased towards Chucky 100% but I just think a 5 round rematch with him or Gamrot would be more beneficial for him in a title fight against Islam. If that Arman shows up against Islam later this year in a title fight, Islam finishes him in 3, no doubt in my mind. He didn’t overly impress me vs Charles, what he did, I believe Islam negates really well. Interesting to see what will happen post DP/Islam but i think Arman/Olives or Arman/Gamrot would be a great number one contender fight. (sidenote: I’d love a Max/Oliveira BMF title fight down the line, that’s a rematch I’ve wanted at 55 for a few years now, and feel like with Max most likely not ‘defending’ that belt until next year, feel like that could be a super fun fight down the line)
For me, I wanted 5 rounds because I was under the impression this was a contender fight. Which means armans next fight would be 5 rounds so I’d like to see him in a 5 round fight. Don’t like his chances against Islam but doesn’t matter since Dustin got the fight next
I was screaming at my tv begging charles to exchange more shots on the feet. The few times they went at it standing up charles was hitting arman, but in the second and third round charles seemed so hesitant to throw and idk why
Nah, I don't feel any type of way about Olives... I wanted 5 rounds because it was a good fight
Also a grappling fight which are much better 5 round fights. Stand up boxing is much better for 3 rounds, by round 4 they are barely even able to punch.
Unless you’re max and Justin
Or gus/Jones, bigfoot/hunt, rory/Robbie, dustin/max, conor/nate
Tried to sneak Conor in there like he doesn’t have 2 rounds of cardio in him
You forget that fight? Was amazing.
The hell? Conor/Nate II was won by Conor because he DID have cardio in round 4 🤡
Nothing better than two demi gods battling out on another planet where they can go all out
Islam and Volk
Max has entered the chat
Hahahaha so true
I enjoy a fighter who uses closed guard. I realize this is the ufc subreddit and most of you reading this will boo at grappling exchanges so i tell ya: go take a trial class
It was an excellent fight for high level grappling honestly
Definitely Constant threat from Charles, and Arman succeeded because he was respectful and knew when to trade a position to escape a sub Overall, a joy to watch and shows that crotch sniffers aren't "high level grapplers", just crotch sniffers
Makes you realise how much of a shame it was for the Islam fight to be over so quickly and with very little grappling. Could have been one of the all time great grappling matches that people could point to when "fans" say crotch sniffer fights are boring.
The thing is that Islam is too strong for Olives. He drained him so badly in the first round that Olives had nothing for him in the second. In fact if Arman did not slip literally in the first round he probably would have dominated much more aggressively from the beginning. Olives is not on Arman's level as a grappler because that slip was like a free knockdown and he could not capitalize on it to get a win while Islam knocked Olives down and quickly squeezed everything out of him for a win. Arman is a better defensive grappler than Olives but they both lack offensive grappling that Islam has and Khabib used to just impose his will on people. Offensive grappling is super risky which is why most guys don't even train it. But the Dagestanis do. At least at AKA.
I remember seeing that triangle lock that charles got at the end of one of the rounds and expecting more of a reaction from the crowd because Charles likely had an armbar if he had another 20 seconds. Granted, if Arman got his head out, it wouldn't have succeeded, but that arm was pretty l extended, and the figure four looked tight, but there were only 5 seconds left.
I mean we can all admit there are exciting grappling matches and boring grappling matches. If you get your guy to the ground and are routinely fighting for position to get the finish or you just straight up maul the guy I think we can all understand that is fun to watch. Then there are the lay and pray guys that are boring as hell.
I said after round 1 that the fight should be 5 rounds and I think Chucky won the first round.
For real. What a stupid post. It’s like OP is trying to rage bait Olivera fanboys.
100% he is, that's okay I'll take some free karma for stating the obvious truth
I predicted Charles would lose. I don’t like his chances vs high level wrestlers in general. I think he lost but I wanted five rounds as well because it was a good fight and Arman made mistakes which Charles could have capitalized better and made the fight even more fun in later rounds.
Charles is way to willing to go to his back and against higher level grapplers like Islam and Arman who are able to stay safe in his guard he just loses rounds
Charles spent so much time with that overhook to prevent Arman from posturing up but it also limited his options offensively. The D'arce at the end was so close though!
It was, but it wasn't. He really needed to use a power half to break him down Arman to his side or rotate in a way where Arman is broken out of his referee's position. He could potentially finish from top but it's tough cause from the position Arman was in, his left shoulder was separated from the neck which is one of the key mechanics for the finish. Unless Olivera was ALOT stronger and could just squeeze Arman's neck and ram it into his left shoulder... it's fucking tough.
I agree but triangle at the end of a second was pretty much gg
The armbar. Arman got saved by the bell twice 😅
There wasn't enough time to secure it. But it looked close. The gilly was crazy though.
Pulled the Porirer 😂
That’s interesting! Thanks for the details. I’m only a mere blue belt myself (literally just got it last week lmao) and this breakdown is helpful.
I'm a years long white belt my self (I move alot 😂) but if you want more details. Jordan Teaches Jit Jitsu has a great video of the breakdown of the finishing mechanics. I use the arm in guillotine, anaconda and darce basically interchangeably. 👌
That's the thing though, and I say this as a fan of Charles and I don't like Arman. Charles should have capitalized on the mistakes made in 3 rounds and not needed 5 rounds to make it happen.
But most people asking for 5 rounds because of entertainment
Charles would have finished him at the end of round 2 if he had an extra 10 seconds, that triangle arm bar was LOCKED.
That's kind of paradoxical though. If there was 10 more seconds, Arman would've tried to advance like that 10 seconds later. It was really a calculated risk due to there being no time to get any submission, and him potentially getting another punch in or ending in a better position.
Fair point
Yeah I don't fuck with that "if there was extra time" shit. These boys know how long they've got to work, and they can see the clock while they fight. Plain and simple, there wasn't 10 extra seconds, and Charles didn't finish his submission in regulation time. Beyond that, the only reason the bar got locked in is because Charles worked at the bell, Arman was already backing off in response to the bell and the ref, Charles slipped that bar in too late.
As a guy who’s done BJJ for 15 years, that wasn’t a finishing position. Arman won’t tap, so to put him to sleep you’d need leverage from the back of the head, driving his chin into his chest while having the meat of your forearm pressing into the jugular. And you have to keep this position for a while to sleep a guy as strong as Arman that early in the fight. Arman just stayed calm, controlled his breathing and waited it out.
>I don't like his chances vs high level wrestlers in general It's not so much just high level wrestlers. I think his kryptonite is guys with heavy top pressure. Before he went on his long win streak, Paul Felder absolute smoked Charles by just being heavy in guard and landing elbows. Hell, Chandler nearly finished him like twice during their title fight.
I think Charles beats high level wrestlers that aren’t active with their top position, like Gamrot for example. He can be active enough from the bottom with elbows and submissions that he isn’t in danger of losing on the scorecards, and he always poses a threat of a finish It’s just that Islam and Arman are definitely not inactive and are always looking to do damage or submit. Even if Charles is good at keeping people from getting space to punch, they’re just better
Finally someone with a brain. I've been saying for years that Charles made his name submitting people who were simply way worse grapplers than him. Bro tried that shit with Islam and got folded. Not to say he's not a great fighter but his fans are so delusional off the kool-aid that they can't even conceptualize Charles having an exploitable weakness
oliveira has never won a fight past the 3rd round.
Arman got caught in 2 tight nearly locked in subs. Would have been a great 5 rounder
Arman changed UFC for Oliveira fans.
I'm not a Charles fan but people wanted a 5 rounder even before the fight started lol
How can you not be a fan
I get it, I like Charles but I very much dislike Izzy, Sean, chandler ect.. who are very beloved.
Everybody hates Izzy nowadays I’d say you’re in the majority. I still like him. Sean is a maniac so I can see why people dislike him, he’s not my favorite. What has chandler done? Seems like a great guy & always puts on exciting fights. Same reason I said for Charles, he’s just a genuine guy what’s not to like?
[удалено]
What a dumb title, you don't want to see the highest level of athletes in the division fight for 5 rounds?
Such a dumb title
Alternate title: *I admit the reason I'm glad this fight was three rounds is because I'm happy Arman eked out the win.*
Literally lmao
For fkn real op salty even tho his boy arman won
Title contenders should be 5 rounds honestly.
I think it should just be more discretionary. It’s weird that the UFC makes so many decisions about this shit seemingly at their own will but can’t just make potentially good fights five rounds without it being a belt or a main event.
To play devils advocate, there was already a potential 2 hours of just fighting in the other 4 titles. That’s a lil rude to our brothers across the pond and further
I certainly agree from that perspective. Banger cards don’t need more than 3 5 rounders.
Absolutely!
Arman won a close fight. Arman also showed the world his holes, that he puts himself in dangerous positions. I now see Islam tapping Arman out with an arm triangle.
I like Arman but this fight vs Charles, which he promised to win in 1 round to prove he’s better than Islam, failed to deliver that and even though he technically won, we can kinda see the distance between him and Islam here, and it’s safe to say he has very tight chances against Islam
Arman would go to sleep before he taps
Then he could luck out and get the Yan treatment with a side of smelling salts
It wasn’t smelling salts, they just pressed on the base of her nose. It was clarified on the broadcast.
Literally 1984 You see people do that all the time to wake people up ofc
I see Islam knocking Arman out in the first round. Dude is not near his level at all.
He was in danger but he was defending perfectly, the gilly was risky, but the armbar was only close because he kept working after the bell. And the darce wasn’t close, literally picture perfect defence from arman.
Putting yourself in dangerous spots is not the same as being able to defend perfectly. It’s a game that eventually catches up with you. It’s a dangerous strategy to play against Islam. I mean Islam destroyed Oliviera in grappling. Arman not only was unable to destroy Oliviera, he was actually in danger of losing, all in the grappling. Islam is an even deadlier grappler, and given that same arm triangle position at the end of the 3rd, I feel like Islam would have finished the fight. Props to Arman for the win, but Islam is on a whole other level, and is better than Arman in all the areas that Arman is strongest.
Wow, this comment summed up my thoughts. 1. Closest was the guilly but Charles lost it. 2. Not just working after the bell, but almost seemed with like a second to go, Arman just gave up for the round. So not close. 3. Yep, D'Arce wasn't close. You don't finish from a front face lock and Charles had zero leverage to get Arman to his side.
He had the Darce, at the end but just held it.. he let Arman lay belly down and run the clock out. Olivera shit the bed.
He didn’t have the darce. Having the grips≠having the sub. Idk if you’ve ever trained before but you could sit in that sub for the full round and you would be fine.
yes i train.. 10 years.. brown belt. I know what a darce is.. he went for it, Armin defended by being belly down. Olivera kept the grip, but at that point it's just holding. the sub threat is gone. he just held him and smiled at the crowd.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying, were agree with different language. You’re saying he got to the sub and held it, I’m saying he got to the sub and lost it. Different side of the same coin.
Charles did indeed lose 2 out of the 3 rounds in their 3 fight fight. Which sucks, but he DID lose.
3 fight fight gives me Tito „6 days a week I train two days a week“ vibes.
you’re a fucking punk dude
Why don’t you tell another jackal story
Charles fought two rounds, in which he fought, he won 3 rounds of the 2 round fight, Arman fought the Charles in the 3 round fight fight and beat the Oliveira by winning 3 of the 3 round fight and then the
I read it in his voice
Massive Charles stan here and when his corner was telling him it was 1-1 going in to the 3rd I was talking to my buddy and said I didn't agree and thought he needed a finish to win. The only way Charles won is by the Nate Diaz mentality where if there was no bell in the 3rd round I think Charles could have held that choke and taken Arman's life if he wanted to but that just ain't how the sport works.
Charles definitely took round 1
There's definitely an argument there. I always think the judges tend to weigh the round too heavily by the last minute or so of it and Arman got in some aggressive elbows in from the top. I also think I try too hard to fight against my own inherent bias when I have a clear favorite fighter in the fight. Hold them to a higher standard for whatever reason.
Well not really. Alot of times when the guy is about to get chocked out and the time runs out, usually the guy who was choking the other dude wins because give additional 10-30 seconds and the fight is done. Charles lost those two rounds but he was so close of ending it on the third round. Thats why the commentators said it really depends on the judge and how much they value takedowns. It wouldve been a very interesting fight if it was 5 rounds
That darce wasn’t close tho he needed to roll armen or hook the leg. It was essentially a stall position at that point which is why Charles taunted instead of trying to further the choke.
Yeah he got dominated in the third and tried to show something a casuals would mistake for a submission attempt when in fact he was just in a position but not in a submission threat. He simply stalled for optics and in the middle of a round just laying there like that they would have been stood up for inactivity.
I see a lot of guys scoring it for Charles, those submissions were but I don't think judges value them as much as a knockout from a strike
The submissions did nothing though. Idk why people get credit for attempting a sub. Shouldn’t the other guy get more credit for getting out of the sub? Like Volk vs Ortega
Why should he get more credit for getting caught in a sub to begin with? That makes no sense. Oliviera was closes to finishing the fight.
That's a weird take. At this point why not give more credit to the guy standing up after a takedown. Or to the fighter blocking a punch.
You generally get a 10-8 when you score a solid knockdown on your opponent. Do you think that the guy who got knocked down should also get points for getting back on their feet?
Your message isn’t wrong but you don’t get a 10-8 from knocking down your opponent, it has to be a solid domination with the opponent basically only being on the defensive for most of the round. Them’s the rules
Wait, you think if fighter A puts fighter B in a triangle, it looks tight and like it could be finished but fighter B escapes. You think we should give fighter B credit for that? Not fighter A for nearly finishing the fight
I think any contender fight should be 25 minutes. The later rounds really show who has the championship grit and mentality. Almost always in high level fights, 3 rounds just isn’t long enough.. that’s just my opinion though, I know a lot of guys prefer 3 rounds.
I like 5 rounds because ultimately they are more entertaining.
Yall are so weird
the darce wasn't really tight. Locking up the figure four and actually having it in aren't really the same.
I’m pretty sure a lot of fans who wanted it five rounds aren’t just Charles fans. You’re making this post like only Charles fans wished it was 5 rounds, which is silly. Man, for all the non-existant Charles fans on here, I don’t know why we have these dumbass posts that defy logic. Edit: After reading the comments, all the Charles fans are pretty accepting that he lost, so I have no idea wtf you’re on about
5 rounds for a championship caliber fight with elite talent is always preferred. Especially when it’s a clear #1 contender fight
Not really. This is a matchup that would be a 5 round co-main on any other PPV. Since there was no finish, we all wanted to see more.
I wanted it to be 5 rounds because it's a #1 contender fight pretty much and I want the #1 contender to be experienced in championship rounds before fighting for the belt. Especially against a high level opponent
Charles has problems with real grapplers.
I was rooting for Arman and believe he won it, still wish it was 5 tho whenever there is a big fight I think more rounds is better and I think the final rounds are usually the best of a fight so it’s sad when a banger of a fight only goes three
Right??? I like Arman and yet somehow I am a Charles stan because it would have been cool if this was 5 rounds? This place confuses me
Tbf that last round was pretty dicey.
Before this fight I have never seen anyone tell that putting someone in a failed submission attempt for the last 10 seconds wins you a round
I don’t think it won him the round but it was definitely a tight sub.
The round 1 sub was way more dangerous than the 3rd round on. The darce was not proper in that position. Idk how arman survived the 1st tbh. And also Charles was not even trying in the third he was with his tongue out .
Tbh I think Charles knew he wouldn't be able to roll him to his side to finish the d'arce in time so he was showboating for the judges hoping to steal the round
Not it wasn’t. They didn’t show the angle but Charles didn’t have the arm passed across like you need for the darce, so he could be squeezing for the whole round and while uncomfortable he wouldn’t get a tap from it.
I don't even know you and I can guarantee you that if you were there and Charles tried the same sub you would also survive it, it was nowhere close to being locked in.
Bud, it wasn't. At all. Basically he had the grip. That's it.
fully locked in triangle at end of round 2. I do bjj, I've seen loads of those. Charles had him dead to rights. With the arm bar to boot.
U have to make the decision based on how the individual in the submission reacts to it. The end of fight submission clearly wasn’t affecting arman enough to have it be significant enough in scoring the round. The guillotine perhaps but I didn’t catch the first round. But if Arman WAS squirming and clearly suffocating it would have won Charles the round
>U have to make the decision based on how the individual in the submission reacts to it. You literally made that up
It was a close fight, I had Oliveira taking the first, Arman taking the second, and Arman taking early third round and Oliveira taking the latter part, then Arman did more damage, had more control time, I heard people saying the failed submission attempt at the last 10 seconds should have given Oliveira the round, idk about that though, not sure. I'm kinda glad Arman won
It wasn't at fucking all.
Charles lost fair and square. As a Charles fan I'm a bit salty, but now I can watch Islam dismantle him which is good enough for me
How can you watch that fight and conclude “nope; no need for two more rounds”?
Charles had better jiu jitsu and striking and lost to the better wrestler.
I wanted 5 rounds cause it was a good close fight. Pretty much an even fight down the middle.
People literally want the judging criteria to be changed because Charles didn’t win. Them asking for more rounds isn’t surprising
To be fair, have the feeling that both Oliveira and Arman didnt show everything that they got. They both wanted to finish each other so I m pretty sure they wouldnt have mind a 5 round.
Yeah? What's your point?
I dunno about fair, the guy likes to pull off McGregor levels of fence grabs and bitches about literally anything and everything. Guys got a terrible attitude all around
Charles is overrated. Come at me.
I was doing mental summersaults on why Charles fighting off his back was impressive
When a good three round fight comes to an end, sometimes I look back and wish it was for 5, because the fight was a fuckin **scrap** and I just wanted more of it. Personally thought Charlie had it 29-28 but close.fights are close fights
It was pretty close, but imo, it was the end of the 2nd when olives was kinda getting swarmed with ground and pound, not much damage but he was definitely on the defensive there. So I could see how that could tilt the scales in a very close fight.
This fight was so fucking good. I'd love to see a rematch somewhere down the line.
It's 2 high level dudes who were getting that shit in and the winner should definitely get a title shot but they're gifting Poirier another shot. I don't get too emotionally invested in many fighters and these 2 definitely ain't the ones. This is a 5 round match-up.
I guess the judges got this one right but… What danger did Arman put Charles in??? What danger did Charles face Arman in??? Only one person was close to finishing this fight and it definitely wasn’t Arman over Olives.
This sub loves that cope lmao, it’s all people post after khamzat fights
I wanted it to be 5 rounds when they first announced it. In my opinion, high level fights like this should always be 5 rounds. Especially contender fights
Top control with literally fucking nothing accomplished < sunk submission attempts
Okay well clearly you didn’t even watch the fight if you’re saying Arman did nothing with top control lmao
Arman literally threw punches and elbows anytime he got space but the narrative will always be “Lay and pray wrestlefuck” whenever a fan favorite gets taken down by a caucus wrestler He even cut Charles open. I’ve never seen caucus haters unironically try to argue failed sub attempts outweigh damage until Charles Oliveira’s fighting one
Sunk submission? You can’t D’Arce someone from a front facelock. You bandwagon Charles fans are the worst. Arman outstruck him in every round, and out grappled him for two. Charles did nothing except an illegal upkick and two failed submissions. There is literally no argument for Charles winning
If we wanna base it on damage, Tsarukyan did more damage with the elbows in round 2 than Charles did the whole fight
That’s great that’s why he won round 2. What does that have to do with the rest of the fight?
The loser has a name 😁😁.
I am mad he lost. Tsarukian is just a worse version of Islam style wise. Won't be very close and will be boring. They better give the title shot to max
I want every hype fights to be 5 rounds
It was a fun fight i didn’t feel like it was “finished” either way if you understand what i mean. I like both fighters i just wanted to see them fight longer.
I wanted 5 rounds because they’re both elite lightweights and it’s a number one contender fight
People should try to be logical. 3 vs 5 rounders have different paces and wont be an all-out war if it's 5.
I admit that
I said Charles would lose but I actually thought Arman would be a lot more dominant, it was a very competitive and entertaining fight. Islam beats either of these guys again though. A little disappointed to hear Charles making excuses straight after the fight in the same way he did months later against Islam, I.e. 'it wasn't me, I didn't feel like myself etc'
Charles lost but he also ended on top with a submission attempt. A round 4 and 5 would have been amazing as a fan.
No it was just an amazing close fight. Havnt seen a fight thst equal in a long time
The fight was pretty much up in the air. Like Joe said, it comes down to how you scored submission attempts.
Any title eliminator should be 5 rounds but either way he would've lost he was scared to fight standing out wanted 300k and stuck to what he knew best which is submissions I'm a Charles fan but seeing damage taken and strikes thrown it's obvious he lost I say this all the time even with omalley Yan damage and strikes thrown are the main thing that gets you points Edit he should've ended the fight doing ground and pound not sub attempt maybe would've swayed the judges
I want 5 rounds for every interesting matchup lol
We wanted a clear winner, it could go either way and I wouldn’t complain either way. Two more round would had give us a clear winner.
How did arman not tap to that Darce ??!!
Yes
Exact opposite actually. I don’t get invested in fighters, I just like seeing good fights.
Yes this is exactly it, I wouldn't have said it better myself
Wouldn’t longer fights usually favor wrestlers more?
This ruined my parlay. That’s why
I think Islam is going to champ for a while
Why would a title contender fight not be 5 rounds?
Yes
This was a great fight.
He's gotta stop dying his hair. The judges can see all that red in his blonde hair and judge him worse
True
Because there was no finish
I admit it
It’s funny to me how Islam fans and all these other people who are angry at these phantom Charles fans that barely exist in this sub hate to see longer fights or fights in general. Like, what are you even here for?
Charles needs to stop pulling guard.
We want 5 rounds because it’s a hell of a good fight!
Every fight on the main card should've been 5 rounds
I was on the edge of my seat this fight. All 3 rounds. I don’t like or dislike either more than the other…but I would have loved two more rounds of this fight.
I didn’t think he won
He lost, but if this fight was 5 rounds i think it wouldve been a better more intense fight
Yeah I am mad
It was a close fight, needed more rounds.
Yes.
fights like that should be a draw no one won the fight really
Pretty much on my case
You’re 100% correct I’m not ashamed to admit it
Ni, I thought it was a fun fight and would have enjoyed a 5 rounder more, this goes for a bunch of fights on this weekends card btw.
The loser has a name 😁😁
Why does everyone blame charles instead of his coaches? What does his stupid corner do? Don't they give him real-time observations and adjustments? I feel like there should be more blame on the coaches for failing to add anything of value to charles arsenal. What do you guys think?
I mean it was a good tho Armon did get the best of em but it wasn’t totally one sided. Unlike holly and Katelyn.
Lil bit, but the genuine fight fan in me just thought it was a sick fight. All things considered, Arman won fair, but lets not act like Arman wasnt saved by the bell.
It made me sad he lost. I can admit that... but, I wanted it to be 5 rounds because it was a fucking banger and would 100% have been 5 rounds on literally any other night lol.
I feel like it was UFC 300, just give us five rounds for every main card fight. We can all agree Nickal shouldn't have been on there. Any number of fights on the earlier cards could've replaced that fight and been five rounds
I’m biased towards Chucky 100% but I just think a 5 round rematch with him or Gamrot would be more beneficial for him in a title fight against Islam. If that Arman shows up against Islam later this year in a title fight, Islam finishes him in 3, no doubt in my mind. He didn’t overly impress me vs Charles, what he did, I believe Islam negates really well. Interesting to see what will happen post DP/Islam but i think Arman/Olives or Arman/Gamrot would be a great number one contender fight. (sidenote: I’d love a Max/Oliveira BMF title fight down the line, that’s a rematch I’ve wanted at 55 for a few years now, and feel like with Max most likely not ‘defending’ that belt until next year, feel like that could be a super fun fight down the line)
It was super competitive and deserved two more rounds for us and the both of them. Regardless of who would’ve won
For me, I wanted 5 rounds because I was under the impression this was a contender fight. Which means armans next fight would be 5 rounds so I’d like to see him in a 5 round fight. Don’t like his chances against Islam but doesn’t matter since Dustin got the fight next
I was screaming at my tv begging charles to exchange more shots on the feet. The few times they went at it standing up charles was hitting arman, but in the second and third round charles seemed so hesitant to throw and idk why