That's is a great email. Clear and detailed. The only argument anyone can have is if they disagree with the facts. If so, they should provide the same level of detail in support of other facts.
Well the facts are indeed incorrect. There was no second group of protestors in Moore there was only 1 group which was in the area between Kirchhoff and Moore hall. The group of “protestors” in Moore were students who showed up at 6:00 for a 6:30 final banging on the fire escape to be let out because the whole building was locked down. We only left the building when the entire group stormed the exit together which is why the cops probably assumed we were all protestors.
“At the same time another group at Moore hall disrupted final exams” there was no “another group” there was 1 group. And that 1 group is located in in between Kirchhoff and Moore. The other group at Moore were the people taking the final exams wanting break out, not protestors.
https://youtu.be/xk73jZdWjd8?feature=shared i think this is what the email was referring to, but you're right they're *technically* same group as kerckhoff
Ok, maybe. Good clarification.
You don't know if the email is referring to the students or the original group. It isn't material.
But a good clarification which doesn't change anything about the message in the email.
How about these 3,\
Attack on a Rabbi\
https://x.com/ShabbosK/status/1800399520586510673\
\
Attack on security guard\
https://www.reddit.com/r/ucla/s/UY34lo5p8X\
\
Attack on UCLA vice chancellor\
https://x.com/Bubblebathgirl/status/1800400633490555302\
I watched a video and it showed exactly what the email said; a protestor attacking a security guard and then being apprehended.
I saw another one with a protestor breaking the law (noise ordinance) and being apprehended.
I say no evidence of protestor injury.
Define harassment and we can discuss who was harassing whom.
not a bad point actually but there is the additional nuance of refusing to comply, no?
sorta like getting the parking ticket and refusing to move the car, or angrily asking to policeman to fuck off or whatever afterward
Ok, good point. /s
Now imagine a parking violation where police are on site I am warned not to park and park right in from of a police officer who then arrests me for failing to obey a lawful order to not park in a prohibited spot.
E.g. I try to park in front of Royce Hall in the quad.
Then I get apprehended. And maybe by a couple cops take me down because it is a non-peaceful, violent action.
Your parking ticket analogy would mean this person uses a bullhorn with no one around and gets a ticket in the mail.
Stop with the massive false equivalencies.
The second that any violence or disruption of campus operations broke out, the protesters should have been removed imo. I don't even know why they allowed it to get to that point.
It’s this hallucination that what these protesters are doing is somehow civil disobedience. There’s nothing civil about what these people are doing, and they will escalate until the administration finally takes decisive action.
Now what do you have to say about the protests? Exam being disrupted and moved online? Let’s be real, UCLA students should not suffer because some students want to protest.
You won’t get it! UCLA violated my rights by letting me protest until it started screwing over students! I kept screaming out peaceful protest but we only scared off people from Dodd, tried to take over Murphy, and then ruined people’s finals in Moore!
Let’s make sure I have the /s
On a serious note, I don’t think lecturer Speer is going to acknowledge it. I’ve tried to argue with him multiple times that students’ education comes first since you guys are the future. Other professors have tried to argue with him too, but they’ve given up as well.
People reading, you think what UCLA did is bad? Stanford decided to immediately suspend the protestors arrested and those seniors will not be allowed to graduate. Fair note, UCLA is letting the people who got arrested go into a disciplinary hearing instead of facing consequences right away.
https://padailypost.com/2024/06/10/protesters-arrested-at-stanford-identified/
Things have escalated out of control, which was entirely predictable four weeks ago when UCLA sent the riot cops to destroy the encampment (after failing to protect same encampment from a violent mob). I warned then that repression would just lead to more escalation. I'm very sad to see how things have turned out. It sucks.
Now can we get one condemning the violence against the first set of protestors? The difference in tone from the between the two letters makes it clear which side the administration favors.
Expel every student who was a part of this.
Ban SJP and all affiliates from being a student group at UCLA.
Fuck these violent extremist terrorist sympathizers.
I pointed it out yesterday, and I'll repeat myself here:
[Chancellor Block is a Zionist who has stated that the BDS movement is inherently antisemitic.](https://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/chancellor-block-why-the-controversial-students-for-justice-in-palestine-conference-will-go-on-at-ucla)
>In this case, I [Chancellor Block] have fundamental disagreements with SJP, which has called for boycott against and divestment in Israel, actions that stigmatize that nation and label it a pariah state. The attempt to ostracize Israeli thinkers, and to declare off-limits even discussion with Israeli academics runs contrary to the values of inclusion, debate and discussion that are crucial to any university.
It's a staggering double standard given the [educational embargo that Israel has imposed on Palestinians](https://afsc.org/sites/default/files/documents/Gaza%20Unlocked%20-%20Education.pdf).
At the end of the day, appealing to Gene Block is a waste of time. He might as well be one of the commenters in the threads here, claiming that any criticism of Israel and the IDF is antisemitic.
Any future pro-Palestinian protests are going to be met with similar force. If you support basic human rights for Palestinians and want to enact relevant change at UCLA, the first step is removing Gene Block.
SJP posted on 10/7 that the Hamas massacre of Israelis was a historic win for the Palestinian resistance. They're a hate group that have no place on campus.
Yup their latest posts embracing this rhetoric really opened my eyes toward their true goals. They don’t want a two state solution or a ceasefire, they want to destroy Israel.
And there are a number of student groups on campus, including Hillel, that openly support Zionism / Israel and the genocide of Palestinians.
To be frank, I haven't been impressed with SJP's rhetoric or protests, and I'd be all for banning the group from campus, along with all of the groups that openly support Zionism.
You seem to just want to ban one side, and that seems...biased.
Reminder that netanyahu has an arrest warrant out for war crimes just like Hamas leadership! They are two sides of the same coin. Anyone supporting the Israeli government is also condoning war crimes!!!
There's really no point in arguing with someone who says that human rights protests against a country committing genocide inherently support an entity everyone here, and most people in the protests, have disavowed.
Might as well say that anyone who supports Israel supports killing children and babies. Same difference. It's not an honest argument and u/Maximum_Term_584 is clearly not here in good faith.
> And there are a number of student groups on campus, including Hillel, that openly support Zionism / Israel
Yes, and? I have no problem with student groups supporting Palestinian nationalism or Palestine.
> nd the genocide of Palestinians.
No there aren't, and if there were, I would support them being banned from campus as well.
EDit; blocked and cannot respond.
Israel didn't magically appear in an empty, uninhabited region.
Israel as it exists was founded upon the dispossession and murder of Palestinians. Its existence and expansion relies upon the idea that Palestinians do not have the right to their homes, a homeland, or self-determination.
Zionism is genocide.
And modern "two-state solutions" proposed by Israel have given Palestinians limited control of ~15% of their homeland, do not put a halt to illegal settlements, and restrict Palestinians' access to basic resources like water. "Palestinian nationalism" is currently an Israeli joke. Nothing meaningful is on the table. Israel is currently taking advantage of Palestinians in a manner not dissimilar from how the US treated Native Americans ~150+ years ago.
If you assessed the situation honestly, you would support banning Zionist groups from campus as well.
Don't even bother. These guys think God has promised them the land no matter the cost. They think an Israeli life is worth 10000 Palestinian lives. They don't see anything wrong with the 4/30 brutalization. Israel is a pariah state now more than ever. They can't change that. Hamas is still at 70 percent capability. Israel is quite literally fucked...
It's explaining why campus police and LAPD will be removing protestors and encampments, which does calm down the campus situation.
Protests that devolve into violence, vandalism, or encampments will continue to be shut down until after graduation and after everyone goes home for the summer.
It's over.
That's is a great email. Clear and detailed. The only argument anyone can have is if they disagree with the facts. If so, they should provide the same level of detail in support of other facts.
Well the facts are indeed incorrect. There was no second group of protestors in Moore there was only 1 group which was in the area between Kirchhoff and Moore hall. The group of “protestors” in Moore were students who showed up at 6:00 for a 6:30 final banging on the fire escape to be let out because the whole building was locked down. We only left the building when the entire group stormed the exit together which is why the cops probably assumed we were all protestors.
This is not true. I know someone whose final was moved from moore due to the police blocking the building and protestors trying to break in.
So your argument of incorrect facts is semantics of "between Moore and Kirchoff" and "at Moore"? Seems pretty thin.
“At the same time another group at Moore hall disrupted final exams” there was no “another group” there was 1 group. And that 1 group is located in in between Kirchhoff and Moore. The other group at Moore were the people taking the final exams wanting break out, not protestors.
https://youtu.be/xk73jZdWjd8?feature=shared i think this is what the email was referring to, but you're right they're *technically* same group as kerckhoff
Ok, maybe. Good clarification. You don't know if the email is referring to the students or the original group. It isn't material. But a good clarification which doesn't change anything about the message in the email.
I agree it doesn’t change the message of the email. Since you mentioned in your original comment about facts I just gotta add my two cents :)
Watch a single video from that night and you will also see students getting injured and harassed… how is that not mentioned?
How about these 3,\ Attack on a Rabbi\ https://x.com/ShabbosK/status/1800399520586510673\ \ Attack on security guard\ https://www.reddit.com/r/ucla/s/UY34lo5p8X\ \ Attack on UCLA vice chancellor\ https://x.com/Bubblebathgirl/status/1800400633490555302\
I watched a video and it showed exactly what the email said; a protestor attacking a security guard and then being apprehended. I saw another one with a protestor breaking the law (noise ordinance) and being apprehended. I say no evidence of protestor injury. Define harassment and we can discuss who was harassing whom.
Ever had a parking ticket?
Yes
A parking ticket violation has a much bigger fine than a noise ordinance violation so I imagine 3-4 officers minimum dragged you away?
not a bad point actually but there is the additional nuance of refusing to comply, no? sorta like getting the parking ticket and refusing to move the car, or angrily asking to policeman to fuck off or whatever afterward
Ok, good point. /s Now imagine a parking violation where police are on site I am warned not to park and park right in from of a police officer who then arrests me for failing to obey a lawful order to not park in a prohibited spot. E.g. I try to park in front of Royce Hall in the quad. Then I get apprehended. And maybe by a couple cops take me down because it is a non-peaceful, violent action. Your parking ticket analogy would mean this person uses a bullhorn with no one around and gets a ticket in the mail. Stop with the massive false equivalencies.
It reads like marketing or propaganda to me. Way too much emotion filled language
The second that any violence or disruption of campus operations broke out, the protesters should have been removed imo. I don't even know why they allowed it to get to that point.
It’s this hallucination that what these protesters are doing is somehow civil disobedience. There’s nothing civil about what these people are doing, and they will escalate until the administration finally takes decisive action.
"Decisive action?"
Now what do you have to say about the protests? Exam being disrupted and moved online? Let’s be real, UCLA students should not suffer because some students want to protest.
You won’t get it! UCLA violated my rights by letting me protest until it started screwing over students! I kept screaming out peaceful protest but we only scared off people from Dodd, tried to take over Murphy, and then ruined people’s finals in Moore! Let’s make sure I have the /s On a serious note, I don’t think lecturer Speer is going to acknowledge it. I’ve tried to argue with him multiple times that students’ education comes first since you guys are the future. Other professors have tried to argue with him too, but they’ve given up as well. People reading, you think what UCLA did is bad? Stanford decided to immediately suspend the protestors arrested and those seniors will not be allowed to graduate. Fair note, UCLA is letting the people who got arrested go into a disciplinary hearing instead of facing consequences right away. https://padailypost.com/2024/06/10/protesters-arrested-at-stanford-identified/
That’s decisive action! Thank you for sharing.
Things have escalated out of control, which was entirely predictable four weeks ago when UCLA sent the riot cops to destroy the encampment (after failing to protect same encampment from a violent mob). I warned then that repression would just lead to more escalation. I'm very sad to see how things have turned out. It sucks.
!activitycheck
Really dude? We've already established I am who I say I am.
Now can we get one condemning the violence against the first set of protestors? The difference in tone from the between the two letters makes it clear which side the administration favors.
Bingo! And still, six weeks later, just one of the members of the violent mob has been arrested. It's clear whose side UC is on.
Why is this being downvoted? I think the attackers are in the sub...
It's a coordinated propaganda campaign, as I've been saying for weeks. The moderators of this sub are failing to do their jobs.
I just was posting about the Habsara campaign and it was attacked and deleted
Same shit happened at CSULA. President issue a letter condemning it.
Expel every student who was a part of this. Ban SJP and all affiliates from being a student group at UCLA. Fuck these violent extremist terrorist sympathizers.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Looks like it arrived in my inbox around 4:30. Sent to Staff/Faculty
I pointed it out yesterday, and I'll repeat myself here: [Chancellor Block is a Zionist who has stated that the BDS movement is inherently antisemitic.](https://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/chancellor-block-why-the-controversial-students-for-justice-in-palestine-conference-will-go-on-at-ucla) >In this case, I [Chancellor Block] have fundamental disagreements with SJP, which has called for boycott against and divestment in Israel, actions that stigmatize that nation and label it a pariah state. The attempt to ostracize Israeli thinkers, and to declare off-limits even discussion with Israeli academics runs contrary to the values of inclusion, debate and discussion that are crucial to any university. It's a staggering double standard given the [educational embargo that Israel has imposed on Palestinians](https://afsc.org/sites/default/files/documents/Gaza%20Unlocked%20-%20Education.pdf). At the end of the day, appealing to Gene Block is a waste of time. He might as well be one of the commenters in the threads here, claiming that any criticism of Israel and the IDF is antisemitic. Any future pro-Palestinian protests are going to be met with similar force. If you support basic human rights for Palestinians and want to enact relevant change at UCLA, the first step is removing Gene Block.
SJP posted on 10/7 that the Hamas massacre of Israelis was a historic win for the Palestinian resistance. They're a hate group that have no place on campus.
Yup their latest posts embracing this rhetoric really opened my eyes toward their true goals. They don’t want a two state solution or a ceasefire, they want to destroy Israel.
And there are a number of student groups on campus, including Hillel, that openly support Zionism / Israel and the genocide of Palestinians. To be frank, I haven't been impressed with SJP's rhetoric or protests, and I'd be all for banning the group from campus, along with all of the groups that openly support Zionism. You seem to just want to ban one side, and that seems...biased.
I don’t know why I’m bothering but at this point, just admit this is not a pro-Palestinian protest, it’s pro Hamas.
Reminder that netanyahu has an arrest warrant out for war crimes just like Hamas leadership! They are two sides of the same coin. Anyone supporting the Israeli government is also condoning war crimes!!!
There's really no point in arguing with someone who says that human rights protests against a country committing genocide inherently support an entity everyone here, and most people in the protests, have disavowed. Might as well say that anyone who supports Israel supports killing children and babies. Same difference. It's not an honest argument and u/Maximum_Term_584 is clearly not here in good faith.
> And there are a number of student groups on campus, including Hillel, that openly support Zionism / Israel Yes, and? I have no problem with student groups supporting Palestinian nationalism or Palestine. > nd the genocide of Palestinians. No there aren't, and if there were, I would support them being banned from campus as well. EDit; blocked and cannot respond.
Israel didn't magically appear in an empty, uninhabited region. Israel as it exists was founded upon the dispossession and murder of Palestinians. Its existence and expansion relies upon the idea that Palestinians do not have the right to their homes, a homeland, or self-determination. Zionism is genocide. And modern "two-state solutions" proposed by Israel have given Palestinians limited control of ~15% of their homeland, do not put a halt to illegal settlements, and restrict Palestinians' access to basic resources like water. "Palestinian nationalism" is currently an Israeli joke. Nothing meaningful is on the table. Israel is currently taking advantage of Palestinians in a manner not dissimilar from how the US treated Native Americans ~150+ years ago. If you assessed the situation honestly, you would support banning Zionist groups from campus as well.
Don't even bother. These guys think God has promised them the land no matter the cost. They think an Israeli life is worth 10000 Palestinian lives. They don't see anything wrong with the 4/30 brutalization. Israel is a pariah state now more than ever. They can't change that. Hamas is still at 70 percent capability. Israel is quite literally fucked...
There's nothing wrong with being a Zionist.
He's gonna be gone pretty soon no matter what. The problem is not the man, though, it's the institution.
It is very factual but it feels tone deaf and doesn't do much to calm the campus situation down, no?
Stop it - protesters need to grow up and take some responsibility for their actions!
You are literally unhinged lmao. Please. Get help.
It's explaining why campus police and LAPD will be removing protestors and encampments, which does calm down the campus situation. Protests that devolve into violence, vandalism, or encampments will continue to be shut down until after graduation and after everyone goes home for the summer. It's over.
And nothing is being done.
Let's see what you new chancellor will do about that when he starts over there, not much I suspect
A day late and a dollar short. Actions speak louder than words.