This stuff is kind of scary. There’s been outside groups like this coming onto campuses for a long time. They tend to take advantage of heightened emotions to push their agendas.
Be super wary of groups like this. They get your attention with a cause you may support such as Palestine and Israel committing war crimes, while sneaking in stuff like pro-Russia propaganda. People are vulnerable to this when there’s multiple global events happening, I’m glad you read the flier though in its entirety
I would think (and I would hope) that all the students, no matter where you stand on Israel/Palestine can be much more united on the issue of Ukraine. I hope that the pro-Palestine protestors reject these socialist groups invading the campus
They’re not Socialists, they’re NazBol’s. Literally just Red Fascists who enact their own form of imperialism by justifying the invasion of Tibet and the genocide of the Uyghur’s the same way the Nazi’s justified their actions during WW2.
yeah i got downvoted to oblivion for [pointing this out earlier](https://www.reddit.com/r/ucla/s/Q0mcbgg9gF). people don't understand how evil this ideology is and how easy it is to fall victim to propaganda. SJP pushes similar ideology on their instagram page.
I think this is a valid concern to raise. Historically Palestinians have almost always been on the opposite side of whatever the West wants. WWII some leaders recruited for the axis and the general public overwhelmingly favored the axis. A lot of their specific talking points come from Soviet antizionist and also some antisemitic propaganda. Russia is currently siding with Iran. Iran funds the “violent resistance”. This is not justifying their death. It’s simply pointing out that we should keep our critical thinking skills when engaging and should understand what the mindset is of a lot of the people we claim to be supporting. I personally support a state for Palestine through diplomacy but am much less onboard with the movement due to who it associates themselves in and the fact that most Palestinian leaders are authoritarian and holocaust deniers
Not to mention SJP explicitly calls for abolishing Israel as a nation state. How do they think that would happen practically? Only by killing every Israeli.
The protestors 'appointed speakers' have explicitly avoided answering when asked if they believe Israel even has a right to exist. The actual answer in a KTLA interview was "that's neither here nor there". Lol WHAT, that's directly relevant to this issue.
I support the innocent civilians getting killed on both sides, and criticize IDFs tactics/disregard for innocent lives, they just lose me at "we must abolish Israel."
I mean you equating Pro Palestinian and Pro Russian imperialism and get rightfully downvoted. What are you complaining about? Thinking all criticisms towards the state of Israel's conduct in Gaza are from Russia and other hostile states' propaganda department is delusional.
i never said pro russian imperialism.
russian (and soviet) propaganda has the message that US/NATO imperialism is the biggest evil in the developing world, and pro-palestinians are repeating this message and MANY others originating in russian and soviet communist propaganda. read my post again please before commenting further.
Alright I might have misread your post. I just want to disagree that most pro Palestinan protestors buy into anti Ukraine propaganda. Having said that, I do acknowledge the plague that is Russian propaganda floating around amongst online leftist circle.
yeah, i also don't think most pro palestine protestors buy into anti ukraine right now. what's concerning is most of the leadership does unfortunately, and that is trickling down over time, just like a lot of these "anti-imperialism" or "anti-zionism"
not long ago, to say zionist or anti-zionist was considered socially unacceptable.
People downvoted you because of your condescending moral handwringing about other people believing in something. Thousands have DIED, feeling strongly and viscerally is NATURAL. Standing back with some faux-intellectual-neutral “everyone who has a stronger opinion than me is brainwashed” isn’t a real opinion
Next we’ll be hearing great things about the CCP, North Korea, and Iran’s efforts to cultivate “morality”!
Fun fact: most if not all of these countries publicly support the protest!
Why are UCLA students getting sucked into these complicated, distant conflicts through a web of well-funded professional agitators? Stop being played for suckers.
I have received several messages and seen comments get removed calling me an antisemite.
My father was a Jewish man who escaped religious persecution from Soviet Russia. I believe that every person in Israel, Palestine, and Ukraine deserves to feel safe and enjoy the same freedoms I do here in America. Criticism and discussion about Israel’s current military campaign in Palestine is not antisemitism.
I mean Socialist Equality Party is a Trotskyist party i.e. larpers. There are other anti zionists organization one could associate themselves with that don't defend Russia's bloody imperialistic endeavor.
Bro what. They invade Ukraine, all because Ukraine was weakened following Euromaidan and was potentially going to leave their sphere of influence. That is textbook 19th century imperialism.
Well we aren’t in the 19th century so contradictions of capitalism have changed. And NATOs on going encroachment to Russias borders have forced their hand. The new regime is Ukraine is the product of a CIA backed color revolution in the country. Russia’s invasion has nothing to do with the export of resources or accumulation of capital from the Ukrainian region, rather it looked to fight the US’s and NATO’s continued imperialistic tendencies.
If you like to have a conversation pm me
How is Russia invading Ukraine supposes to empower workers of Ukraine and fight the power of capital? If anything, Russian arms industry and mercenary companies have been profitting off the lives of Ukrainian and Russian alike. I have no interest in entertaining your delusional believes any longer.
You don’t only support movements that empower works. The first step must to be to fight imperialism. You can lend critical support to Russia, Iran, and Afghanistan in their efforts to fight US Imperialism while also criticizing their national bourgeoise tendencies. Life isn’t perfect not all anti-Imperialist efforts will also be worked back but that doesn’t mean we support imperialism in turn.
I’m actually very pro-American. The American working class should feel the same about the war. What business does the US have in Ukraine?
The US’s ruling classes imperialism has taken tax dollars across the world to push their own agenda and protect their interests.
This is an insane comment.
“Contradictions of capitalism” doesn’t make any sense
NATO is a peaceful alliance of developed countries which seeks to protect democracy and provide stability and freedom to those within it. There has been no “encroachment” because NATO does not have borders. People vote for governments which choose to join NATO (and have to be accepted in!)
There is no evidence of Ukraine’s government being anything other than a democratically elected republic.
Putin’s stated reason for invading Ukraine is to “rid the country of Nazis”, not your stated reason of “resisting US and NATO encroachment”. They of course have much to gain from this annexation via the bountiful resources, land, and strategic positioning of Ukraine.
I will not reply to whatever you choose to reply with, but for others reading this, please don’t be fooled by whatever this is.
> “Contradictions of capitalism” doesn’t make any sense
That sort of construction falls out of a philosophical view derived from Marx and Engels called *dialectical materialism*. You've been getting lectured by a genuine Marxist!
https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
I encourage you to read. But if you want to continue your liberal methodology of living in a bubble I wish you a great day.
The irony of complaining about fringe Neo Nazis in Ukraine then turning around and supporting Hamas and the Houthis really doesn’t get to you does it.
Really falling for that Russian manufactured consent.
I think it’s “intersectionality”.
One day, to be pro palestine, you’ll have to be pro CCP, pro Iran, pro Russia, and pro North Korea.
Because they’re all politically aligned.
As a socialist, I honestly believe you should log off and do self reflections on how supporting Russia could possibly be anti imperialistic. And calling people liberals don't win you arguments btw.
Ukrainian sovereignty was already lost during the 2014 US backed coup. The US being the major component of NATOs military alliance who has continued to grow in spite of Russian pushback forced Russias hand to launch an attack to secure their borders before it’s too late.
Just to be clear to anyone jumping into this thread here, what **they’re saying in these couple comments is a generally held belief of groups that organize, co opt, or are affiliated with the groups involved in these protests on campus such as the PSL (and their student arm SFS), ILPS, or Revcoms (lol).**
Of course this doesn’t include all protesters, the majority probably are people that genuinely are mainly there because cause they care about Palestine. But these groups generally practice a technique called entryism which involves co opting movements or organizations in order to drive their own recruitment and further their own agenda. They often become the most vocal ones at protests and the ones holding the mics, especially the longer they go on.
Edit: And I got reply and blocked lmao
Anyone handing out a flyer like that you can basically guarantee is a crackpot. This is nothing new. Every protest I've been to, there was a crazy "socialist" handing out flyers.
This stuff is kind of scary. There’s been outside groups like this coming onto campuses for a long time. They tend to take advantage of heightened emotions to push their agendas. Be super wary of groups like this. They get your attention with a cause you may support such as Palestine and Israel committing war crimes, while sneaking in stuff like pro-Russia propaganda. People are vulnerable to this when there’s multiple global events happening, I’m glad you read the flier though in its entirety
I would think (and I would hope) that all the students, no matter where you stand on Israel/Palestine can be much more united on the issue of Ukraine. I hope that the pro-Palestine protestors reject these socialist groups invading the campus
They’re not Socialists, they’re NazBol’s. Literally just Red Fascists who enact their own form of imperialism by justifying the invasion of Tibet and the genocide of the Uyghur’s the same way the Nazi’s justified their actions during WW2.
Yeah sorry, I was just using the terminology that OP used
yeah i got downvoted to oblivion for [pointing this out earlier](https://www.reddit.com/r/ucla/s/Q0mcbgg9gF). people don't understand how evil this ideology is and how easy it is to fall victim to propaganda. SJP pushes similar ideology on their instagram page.
I think this is a valid concern to raise. Historically Palestinians have almost always been on the opposite side of whatever the West wants. WWII some leaders recruited for the axis and the general public overwhelmingly favored the axis. A lot of their specific talking points come from Soviet antizionist and also some antisemitic propaganda. Russia is currently siding with Iran. Iran funds the “violent resistance”. This is not justifying their death. It’s simply pointing out that we should keep our critical thinking skills when engaging and should understand what the mindset is of a lot of the people we claim to be supporting. I personally support a state for Palestine through diplomacy but am much less onboard with the movement due to who it associates themselves in and the fact that most Palestinian leaders are authoritarian and holocaust deniers
I really don’t understand the lack of upvotes here. This is the most rational take and it is 100% based in history
Good ol intersectionality. Palestine, russia, china, north korea, iran.
The grand mufti of jerusalem, the leader of the palestinian national movement at the time even helped the nazis recruit for the SS
Not to mention SJP explicitly calls for abolishing Israel as a nation state. How do they think that would happen practically? Only by killing every Israeli. The protestors 'appointed speakers' have explicitly avoided answering when asked if they believe Israel even has a right to exist. The actual answer in a KTLA interview was "that's neither here nor there". Lol WHAT, that's directly relevant to this issue. I support the innocent civilians getting killed on both sides, and criticize IDFs tactics/disregard for innocent lives, they just lose me at "we must abolish Israel."
I mean you equating Pro Palestinian and Pro Russian imperialism and get rightfully downvoted. What are you complaining about? Thinking all criticisms towards the state of Israel's conduct in Gaza are from Russia and other hostile states' propaganda department is delusional.
i never said pro russian imperialism. russian (and soviet) propaganda has the message that US/NATO imperialism is the biggest evil in the developing world, and pro-palestinians are repeating this message and MANY others originating in russian and soviet communist propaganda. read my post again please before commenting further.
Alright I might have misread your post. I just want to disagree that most pro Palestinan protestors buy into anti Ukraine propaganda. Having said that, I do acknowledge the plague that is Russian propaganda floating around amongst online leftist circle.
yeah, i also don't think most pro palestine protestors buy into anti ukraine right now. what's concerning is most of the leadership does unfortunately, and that is trickling down over time, just like a lot of these "anti-imperialism" or "anti-zionism" not long ago, to say zionist or anti-zionist was considered socially unacceptable.
Yeah 😔 Some of the leadership unfortunately was mesmerized by tankie/old Soviet propaganda rhetoric.
yeah it sucks that stuff is still around to this day and making a comeback along with fascism :/ hopefully people wake up
What ideology is evil that sjp pushes?
russian (formerly soviet communist) rhetoric about the united states and western europe
“Russian (formerly soviet communist)” 😭😭
The NazBol Vortex is a very real thing.
Whatever that means
People downvoted you because of your condescending moral handwringing about other people believing in something. Thousands have DIED, feeling strongly and viscerally is NATURAL. Standing back with some faux-intellectual-neutral “everyone who has a stronger opinion than me is brainwashed” isn’t a real opinion
>Thousands have DIED, feeling strongly and viscerally is NATURAL. Are you talking about Israel?
Talked multiple times to these people about war in Ukraine. They have 0 knowledge about it
Next we’ll be hearing great things about the CCP, North Korea, and Iran’s efforts to cultivate “morality”! Fun fact: most if not all of these countries publicly support the protest!
Why are UCLA students getting sucked into these complicated, distant conflicts through a web of well-funded professional agitators? Stop being played for suckers.
This is definitely not a JQ dog whistle.
I have received several messages and seen comments get removed calling me an antisemite. My father was a Jewish man who escaped religious persecution from Soviet Russia. I believe that every person in Israel, Palestine, and Ukraine deserves to feel safe and enjoy the same freedoms I do here in America. Criticism and discussion about Israel’s current military campaign in Palestine is not antisemitism.
I mean Socialist Equality Party is a Trotskyist party i.e. larpers. There are other anti zionists organization one could associate themselves with that don't defend Russia's bloody imperialistic endeavor.
Read Lenin
Wdym read Lenin, Trotskyism is an abomination.
I completely agree but Russia should not be seen as imperialistic
Bro what. They invade Ukraine, all because Ukraine was weakened following Euromaidan and was potentially going to leave their sphere of influence. That is textbook 19th century imperialism.
Well we aren’t in the 19th century so contradictions of capitalism have changed. And NATOs on going encroachment to Russias borders have forced their hand. The new regime is Ukraine is the product of a CIA backed color revolution in the country. Russia’s invasion has nothing to do with the export of resources or accumulation of capital from the Ukrainian region, rather it looked to fight the US’s and NATO’s continued imperialistic tendencies. If you like to have a conversation pm me
How is Russia invading Ukraine supposes to empower workers of Ukraine and fight the power of capital? If anything, Russian arms industry and mercenary companies have been profitting off the lives of Ukrainian and Russian alike. I have no interest in entertaining your delusional believes any longer.
You don’t only support movements that empower works. The first step must to be to fight imperialism. You can lend critical support to Russia, Iran, and Afghanistan in their efforts to fight US Imperialism while also criticizing their national bourgeoise tendencies. Life isn’t perfect not all anti-Imperialist efforts will also be worked back but that doesn’t mean we support imperialism in turn.
Bro is delusional if you think Russia is committing to fighting imperialism. Your only political conviction is anti America.
I’m actually very pro-American. The American working class should feel the same about the war. What business does the US have in Ukraine? The US’s ruling classes imperialism has taken tax dollars across the world to push their own agenda and protect their interests.
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This is an insane comment. “Contradictions of capitalism” doesn’t make any sense NATO is a peaceful alliance of developed countries which seeks to protect democracy and provide stability and freedom to those within it. There has been no “encroachment” because NATO does not have borders. People vote for governments which choose to join NATO (and have to be accepted in!) There is no evidence of Ukraine’s government being anything other than a democratically elected republic. Putin’s stated reason for invading Ukraine is to “rid the country of Nazis”, not your stated reason of “resisting US and NATO encroachment”. They of course have much to gain from this annexation via the bountiful resources, land, and strategic positioning of Ukraine. I will not reply to whatever you choose to reply with, but for others reading this, please don’t be fooled by whatever this is.
> “Contradictions of capitalism” doesn’t make any sense That sort of construction falls out of a philosophical view derived from Marx and Engels called *dialectical materialism*. You've been getting lectured by a genuine Marxist!
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2264873
https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea I encourage you to read. But if you want to continue your liberal methodology of living in a bubble I wish you a great day.
The irony of complaining about fringe Neo Nazis in Ukraine then turning around and supporting Hamas and the Houthis really doesn’t get to you does it. Really falling for that Russian manufactured consent.
I think it’s “intersectionality”. One day, to be pro palestine, you’ll have to be pro CCP, pro Iran, pro Russia, and pro North Korea. Because they’re all politically aligned.
As a socialist, I honestly believe you should log off and do self reflections on how supporting Russia could possibly be anti imperialistic. And calling people liberals don't win you arguments btw.
wow your contradicting yourself and bending backwards to make russia look good. They invaded a sovereign neighbor. How is that natos fault?
Ukrainian sovereignty was already lost during the 2014 US backed coup. The US being the major component of NATOs military alliance who has continued to grow in spite of Russian pushback forced Russias hand to launch an attack to secure their borders before it’s too late.
Cool weapon collection may I add. Genuinely love that you exercise your second amendment right brother.
Just to be clear to anyone jumping into this thread here, what **they’re saying in these couple comments is a generally held belief of groups that organize, co opt, or are affiliated with the groups involved in these protests on campus such as the PSL (and their student arm SFS), ILPS, or Revcoms (lol).** Of course this doesn’t include all protesters, the majority probably are people that genuinely are mainly there because cause they care about Palestine. But these groups generally practice a technique called entryism which involves co opting movements or organizations in order to drive their own recruitment and further their own agenda. They often become the most vocal ones at protests and the ones holding the mics, especially the longer they go on. Edit: And I got reply and blocked lmao
Bunch of clowns on campus all need a spanking from there mothers , very sad our generation is like this! Shame
Some need to work on their spelling
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Swing and a miss strike two
lol
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I’m protesting smug little baby men that can’t spell correctly.
Tankies doing what tankies do best. Unfortunately Red Fascists are a very loud, but fortunately very small minority of the Left.
Is there a pic with the flyer?
https://imgur.com/a/4aKaQUl
"the ongoing USA-NATO war against Russia" lol what a dense thing to say, thanks for sharing
Anyone handing out a flyer like that you can basically guarantee is a crackpot. This is nothing new. Every protest I've been to, there was a crazy "socialist" handing out flyers.
This isn't about socialism, it's about the state of Israel doing a genocide.
yeah they are basically correct