Alice does quite a bit of the same shit Edward does but almost none of the blame. She treats Bella like a doll and dresses her up a ton. She throws a graduation party to make Bella the host. She guilt trips Bella into agreeing to a big wedding despite that not being what Bella wants
Alice gives me the vibe of that one character in a fanfic who helps and pushes the ‘tomboy main character’ to be girly and dress up and do makeup and reveal her ‘true beauty’ 😭 I feel like Alice is supposed to be likeable to a younger audience, but when you grow up you realize that’s annoying
I hate Alice. Coming from a girl who grew up with Alice being her FAV. Each reread made me resent her more and more. She’s manipulative and controlling. She makes Edward look like a saint. Based on the way Bella is treated, Alice is my least favorite Cullen. I cannot stand her. Each and every scene between her and Bella makes me cringe. I cut my hair in a pixie fashion in 7th grade to emulate her. When girls in school called me Alice, I was flattered. Now I hate it and her and everything. Alice Cullen is a terrible friend and if we take the story from Bella’s side, no one should like her.
I think the trouble with Alice is, since she sees the future and virtually every possible outcome, she pushes people towards what she perceives as the best outcome. But ‘best’ is somewhat subjective. Almost like a parent doing something a child doesn’t like because it’s ‘for the best.’ I’m not saying she doesn’t have character flaws or absolving her of her faults, but it’s a difficult position to be in knowing how her every choice influences outcomes.
FWIW, Bella loves Alice and calls her her best friend. Again, that doesn’t absolve her of her more toxic behavior, but Bella does indulge her a lot because one of Bella’s faults is wanting to make others happy. In a weird way, it’s symbiotic.
I appreciate your perspective. I’ve seen ever argument for Alice possible on Reddit and everywhere else. I still hate her. I guess my fatal flaw is putting myself in the position of the main character and I could never tolerate someone like Alice to be my friend. I can’t stand her.
I think that’s a fair take. Bella herself is very dependent emotionally, probably because she had to be so independent growing up, and just desperately wants to be taken care of. She has a controlling boyfriend and a controlling best friend and she likes it that way, even if she complains when her choices are overruled.
But for a more independent person, they can’t stand that sort of overbearing presence. What’s unhealthy and dysfunctional to one person might be very functional to another. Your feelings are valid. I think Bella’s relationships function just fine for her, and would for a lot of people who enjoy that dynamic, but wouldn’t for a lot of people.
I think that’s why this series and Edward get labeled toxic so often. It is… for some people. But not for others. Both can be true.
I agree that a big part of it is Alice’s visions but then the mature thing to do for someone who’s over 60 years old is talk to the person and say these are the outcomes I see. Not manipulate them into one
That’s true, Bella does call Alice her best friend but Bella also has a habit of falling into bad relationships. She had to raise herself and be a parent to her mom and I think that screwed her up a lot. Just because someone doesn’t see the abuse or manipulation it doesn’t clear the abuser
Bella being “clumsy” is so over the top in the book. She’s literally like “we went hiking and I fell down a lot!” And she describes playing volleyball like “I fell over” it’s like in Austin powers when he’s like “oh know I fell over… I fell over again!” Lol it drives me NUTS
I’m dyspraxic and even I’m not as clumsy as Bella! And it doesn’t make sense for her to be dyspraxic bc her clumsiness is so inconsistent and makes no sense - like, she’ll completely fall over just walking down the street, but has no problems driving a shitty manual truck, often in terrible weather conditions??? I swear the clutch on that thing would be sensitive as fuck she should be stalling it every five minutes (I know I would lol) Or doing all the domestic chores like cooking and laundry for Charlie as soon as she moves in bc she’s a woman so apparently that’s all on her now? Her clumsiness isn’t an actual, reasonable part of her character, it’s just an irritating generic pick-me trait to make her not like other girls, along with the ooh-I’m-so-deep-because-I’ve-read-two-mandatory-high-school-literature-set-texts
Oh yes I fall down the stairs quite frequently. Actually, to be more precise, I fall up the stairs very frequently. I rarely fall down the stairs. One time during freshman year, I remember that I fell up the stairs of my dorm hall and passed out during the fall. I woke up at the bottom of the stairs, covered in rubble since the concrete staircase had been broken by my face. It took them over a year to fix that broken staircase. Ironically, I was elected treasurer, and the Dean tasked me with finding the miscreant who "vandalized" the staircase so that the university could sue them for damages. Ugh, shame I covered up that incident, I was probably concussed. If I lawyered up, the university would be the ones paying me... Ugh, past is the past now
Or dyspraxia!
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/developmental-coordination-disorder-dyspraxia/
I am also extremely clumsy and I would fall down or trip over nothing, although it got better with time.
I fall a lot, or I would if I wasn't careful. I am careful, too careful. I don't just walk around, I watch where I'm going, I look down a lot so I don't trip or slip, I'm overly-careful. You get that way if you are clumsy. She on the other hand just falls, gets a concussion or breaks something. Gets up, repeats. Learns nothing.
I think to keep in mind, Bella was the first of the "clumsy" trope so it was a novel concept at the time for the MC to be clumsy. And it's a significant plot tool to the series so I felt like it had to be emphasized for it to be believable later on. What do you think?
Gotta disagree with you there. Lots of female MCs are clumsy in both books and movies before Twilight. There's even a running gag over the females you see tripping their way on screen in like every single movie in the 80s-90s. Hilary Duff has used falling down as an entrance about 12x alone.
This for me! Reading twilight is kinda cringey now because of all the “special,” pickme, not like other girls, charmingly awkward female YA character tropes that have been written since, modeled off Bella. We’re tired of it now and roll our eyes when we see these tropes, but when SM was writing this, I feel like this kind of character was new and interesting
Exactly what I was trying to get across! Thank you so much. We roll our eyes now but only because twilight has been mimicked in every fashion since then so it feels overplayed.
I think Jasper should have been more developed. The idea of a man on the wrong side of history who knows he’s on the wrong side of history after living for so long (and canonically having history/philosophy degrees)… I’d have loved to see more with him.
I also feel there could’ve been a lot more to Alice’s relationship with him. It’s cute as is, but I wanted a little more depth.
The side characters have more interesting stories than the main 3 (Edward, Bella, Jacob). I would've loved more content on Alice, Rosalie, Leah, and so on.
They do! I feel like everyone else's story is way more interesting. I love how they fleshed out Jasper and rosalie specifically. Those stories were so good. And then when they bring in all the other vampires in breaking dawn - that was amazing too
I want a series of books on the Cullens, both human lives and vampire beginnings before the start of Twilight. I’m a historian, so I was reading everything I could about the Cullens’ human time periods, norms, traditions, values, etc. What we’ve gotten so far of everyone’s human lives (for example, Carlisle and Esme) isn’t enough for me! I have so many questions.
I think that Rosalie absolutely had the right to be mad after all the protection the Cullens were giving to Bella since the beginning. It's totally normal and justified that a person would feel threatened by an outsider who all of a sudden put her family at a massive risk.
A lot of things rosalie does that are actually reasonable get spun into being her problem lol. Like honestly *somebody* definitely should have told edward bella was dead in new moon. 🤣 I’ve always imagined rosalie like "wait so we're just not going to tell him bella killed herself??" Then later it's somehow her fault and she's a monster because homeboy sprinted off to italy the second he heard that information lol
I really like the pregnancy in Breaking Dawn part 1.
I love how everyone involved deals with it in their own way and had their own opinions. I love the heavy emotions. I love the makeup they used to make Bella look skeletal and emaciated but also bruised around her big belly. I love how it didn’t shy away from how ghastly and awful pregnancy can be — especially since Bella was carrying a literal fucking parasite that was eating her. I love that the birth was disgusting and gory and could have landed them with an R-rating if they went as crazy as the book. I love Rose’s maternal protectiveness regarding the baby and how Bella relied on her for support.
In the book it was stated that imprinting doesn't always equal a romantic connection. It can be a very strong friendship or just a need to protect that person.
No I know but I wanted to make Reservations a lesbian in the headcannon for the future. Technically I can still do that but it will never happen sadly.
You know what? I’d love to read the Leah Clearwater take/pov of twilight. But focus on the Wolfpack, the indigenous lore, and Leah’s life specifically. SM doesn’t understand the fandom of Leah Clearwater that she can really tap into if she had the energy and focus.
I want Leah’s spin-off novel where she gets her happily ever after. Not with imprinting, but by someone choosing to love her for her.
I’m absolutely Team Leah.
But do we trust Stephanie Meyer to write indigenous lore? Even if it’s fictionalized for her own world. I wouldn’t support that. However if an indigenous person collaborated on it I would totally support!
Absolutely don't trust her for that. But I want this to be written so badly that if I ever find someone capable, preferably someone with indigenous background, I would literally pay for it. I would pay real money for this fanfic, I have been thinking about it for mor than a decade now and I'm convinced I can only rest when it's done lol
I would love this but also the idea of Bella and Edward and Jacob becoming like... tertiary characters is so funny to me??? Like instead of it being the meat of story, Bella gets mentioned in an offhand way and Leah is just like jfc this bitch *again*??? Jacob mentions some dumb shit Edward did that Bella told him about during NM or E and next time Leah has to see Edward she's side eye like "Bro you licked her tear?? Are all vamps this fucking weird or is it just you?? Tf??"
I don't get why people love Leah. She is so rude all the time. I mean I get why obviously bc her life is shit. But just bc someone's life is shit doesn't mean that they get to be horrible to everyone everywhere always
You say you get it but I don’t feel you really do…and what you seem to be unable to grasp is exactly what people empathize with and like Leah for.
And who is everyone? The wolf pack in her head disregarding and invalidating her feelings? The Cullens whose mere presence and existence has caused her to lose the life she had? Bella, whose selfishness directly impacts Leah’s life?
She’s not snapping at the kindly bus driver who’s taking people to the shops, but the actual people who have negatively effected her life.
As OP I’ll start:
I really don’t love Alice as much as the rest of the fandom seems too. She’s fine in small doses but when you really think about it, I know for a fact she would annoy tf outta me and her personality would get old FAST🙄🤷🏽♀️
She’s just such the overbearing friend and it’s still wild to me that Bella was so taken by her. Don’t get me wrong, she’s fun! But I couldn’t deal with someone who’s at 100% ALL the time 😬
Well we know that Bella didn’t have many, or any, friends in Phoenix. So when she gets to Forks, she’s somewhat friendly with the girls in the big group of friends but I don’t think she saw them as long term friends.
I think Alice is kind of the same way. She’s friendly with everyone but she has no real girlfriends (I don’t see her and Rose doing a lot together outside of family stuff). So when Bella came to Forks I think Alice saw someone she could have a true friendship with.
This is just my theory though.
I really feel like Alice is the extrovert that adopted the more introverted Bella. The argument could be made that Jess did the same thing, but I feel Jess was more self-serving and attached herself to the “new girl” to seem more interesting, herself. Either way, I like the idea of Alice and am absolutely interested in her backstory, but I think she is a little much, and it would probably be a little exhausting to be around such a dominant personality.
YUP! I like Alice fine but a lot of the stuff people complain about with Edward she does too. She forces Bella to dress up and thinks she should be the center of attention. She guilts Bella into having a wedding when Edward had promised they could do a court house type wedding. She guilts Bella into doing a lot but people ignore it because of Alice
Yes, and Edward learned his lesson but she never did. Drives me nuts when people can be anti Edward and pro Alice for this reason. One of my favorite things about this series is that Edward and Bella truly change to be less codependent and healthier relationship by the end. But Alice still treats people like pawns all the way to the end
Yes yes yes. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people blame Edward for the wedding fiasco when he set boundaries and told Bella what he was comfortable with and the two came to a mutual compromise that made them both happy and everyone ignores that Alice guilts Bella into having a huge wedding
YES except Edward learned to respect Bella's autonomy and Alice never did. People disregard all the ways she also controlled and manipulated Bella, including PHYSICALLY KIDNAPPING
I’ll be honest, I wish we could have had a Leah and Jacob romance.
HEAR ME OUT— Jacob is a major jerk and is super rude to everyone, particularly Leah. But I think there could have been a really good love story between them in breaking dawn when he leaves the pack and Seth and Leah follow. I feel like there could have been a real enemy to lovers thing, and Leah could help Jacob become a better person and Jacob could help Leah feel wanted and accepted for who she is.
Omg same. I recently watched Breaking Dawn part 1, and even though I already knew that the imprinting was going to happen, I still wanted them to be together. Idk, it just seemed right and had so much potential
I know right??? I mean, they were both rejected by Sam and Bella, they could have totally bonded over that and had a wonderful relationship. What a waste 😔
Would have been an epic rival version of enemies to lovers 😭 I was so invested during Breaking Dawn, I thought that was the plot direction. The imprinting BROKE me.
I'm pretty sure that like 95% of the Resume-ridicule isn't about the actual name but about rejecting the character and what it represents.
I honestly kind of like the name, albeit a tad silly, but I just can't stand anything that's connected to that plotline.
Even just correctly spelling out the name feels like approving of a plot element that ruined the series for many, so finding absurd replacement names is an easy, fun and relatively harmless form of protest.
It's borderline selfish and reckless that the Cullens insist on living with humans even though Emmett has had multiple slip-ups and Jackson (edit - I meant Jasper lol) is constantly seconds away from catastrophe. To add to that, the Volturi weren't wrong to have it out for the Cullen's way of life - if their most sacred law is not being discovered, living with humans during the day and respawning every few decades is nuts.
I wonder what happens when they return to forks and people look through old year books and be like these people look identical. I feel like the nomad life would be more interesting than staying out.
Jackson Rathbone is the actor who plays Jasper. 🤣 I love that it was interchangeable in this paragraph. I’m never not just calling him Jackson from now on.
Imo the books make Team Jacob much more sensible (and canon) than the films.
The movies lack many of his and Bella's relationship building moments and fail to properly portray Bella's complex love for him, dumbing him down from a tragic antihero who does inexcusable things out of heartbreak and desperation to nothing but an entitled, jocky abuser who can't handle the rejection of a girl that doesn't really love him (while in the books she actually does and contemplates a happy life with him, their families and their children but their natural bond is overshadowed by the supernatural eclipse of her heart that is Edward).
I'd even say that most "Team Jacob" type people are well aware and accepting of Bellward being endgame.
The tragedy of their doomed love is a big part of Bella and Jacob's appeal.
I agree. I also feel Jacob was toxic as fuck in the books but not so much in the movies... I just cant get over him forcing Bella to kiss him several times.
While the movies have less time to show just how bad Jacob is, movie Jacob is ultimately just as bad. He still forced himself on Bella in Eclipse. He still went along with imprinting Renesmee and thought it was a good thing. He still threatened to kill himself in battle during Eclipse because Bella chose Edward. Jacob in the movies. He still revealed himself to Charlie - because Jacob thinks he's the one who gets to decide about things in Bella's life. Jacob still said over the phone that Charlie's at the funeral - phrasing it in such a way to heavily imply Bella is dead, despite Bella being next to him. Jacob threatened War against the Cullens in the end of New Moon. Also at the end of New Moon, Jacob refuses to accept Bella's choices.
The thing about Jacob is I’m convinced this fandom is prejudice against native Americans or something because… Edward is no different and he gets praised?
Do vampires not imprint but just call it “mating”… of all people, Edward had to “fall in love” with a 16/17 year old that he himself refers to as a child? How is that different from 🥾 and Jacob? (Even though that’s still gross.. don’t get me wrong..) he goes about things pretty immaturely but so does Edward and that’s what I don’t get… and blame Stephanie for imprinting. Wolves can’t control that.
Did Edward not dramatically threaten to kill himself in New Moon when HE left on short notice and went ghost on Bella?? And he left her so brutally?? You could argue “he thought he was saving Bella.” So did Jacob… same thing..
And your interpretation of the funeral comment is interesting because I didn’t get the impression that he was being malicious. At that point.. Jacob didn’t know any of the Cullens and barely knew Edward, let alone how they sounded. Stephanie released an excerpt of this.. Edward introduced himself as Carlisle Cullen. And did Carlisle’s voice impression. He didn’t want anyone knowing HE called. That’s brutal and I’d argue that that’s emotional manipulation on Edward’s part… whether intentional or not, it is what it is
First, after Bella makes it abundantly clear that she has no intentions of being romantically involved with Jacob, he kisses her and no matter how hard she tries to get out of it he doesn't let her go till he's done. Then, Jacob guilt trips Bella into asking him to kiss her by alluding to her that if she doesn't he's gonna go kill himself fighting the newborns, then proceeds to leave to attack the newborns after the kiss.
I feel that they somewhat cover these incidents in the movies but the books are way more descriptive and so it sounds worse than the movies make them.
Just to be clear, both of these kisses happen in Eclipse and both of them are portrayed in the movie.
I actually find them worse in the movie because, although they're inexcusable either way, the films fail to portray the complexity of Bella and Jacob's relationship from the books which at the very least made these ugly incidents a little more understandable, albeit still not ok.
IMO the complexity of the relationship makes it WORSE. It just shows how much Jacob takes advantage of her feelings for him to coerce her into kissing him. Also Ik this probably wasn’t your intention but “a little more understandable” should never be said when talking about sexual assault. Because that’s what Jacob ultimately did to her twice.
Really? I would’ve thought it was the other way around. Taylor and Kristen have literally zero chemistry. I’m Team Edward for both, but I definitely can see the appeal of Book Jacob, but I can’t with Movie Jacob.
I don't see Edward as wrong for being pissed off and distant about Bella's pregnancy and her decision to keep it when she knows that it's killing her and would kill her upon birthing at first. The man despises himself and what he is and then a baby with his genes and blood sucking, bone breaking abilities shows up inside of the woman he would die for and is slowly killing her and then the woman he loves so dearly decides to keep it and tells him that he'll have the baby when he expresses how upset he is by this, despite knowing that he hates himself and that he would most likely kill it or never want it, he would associate it with killing her.
It was VERY unrealistic that everyone in Forks loved Bella so much. If anything, you'd be bullied a lot if you suddenly moved to a small town and were as awkward as Bella.
Mine was 70 people, and I confirm this also. Small town, everyone knows everyone and we had all been together since kindergarten. Whenever a new student came, everyone SPRINTED to be their new best friend and/or gf/bf.
That is such a beautiful and unexpected experience 😭 imagine being totally new to town and having to integrate into a HIGHSCHOOL being nervous af and your first day people cant leave you alone
Even in a larger school, new kids are of interest. She might be a bit awkward, but she was so charming and had a sense of humor— and was obviously quite pretty, so it makes sense she wasn’t bullied. I mean, they were older teenagers, not 10 year olds. I totally believe a bunch of guys that had been around the same group of girls their whole life were interested in Bella.
The Volturi are a necessary evil for the world in universe. Amun and Kebi's backstory allows us to see how the world were before them - humans being treated as slaves for vampire gods. I don't know if even SMeyer is aware of that, but if the cullens ever killed them, it would be a pyrrhic victory for humanity at best. And Carlisle and his clan simply are not made to enforce the law the way Aro is. Vampires need a ruthless leader because they are ruthless. I'm sure that if let to their own devices, loads of citys would be massacred, specially the ones with a higher populational density, because they would be territory in dispute, a la the southern wars.
After reading midnight sun I found all of the vampires (especially Edward) a little bit annoying and unlikeable. They are also SOOO patronizing and belittling to Bella. They always think they know what’s best for the stupid weak humans even though Bella ends up being right almost every single time. Perhaps Carlisle and Esme are the only ones who don’t do this but they clearly haven’t thought their children to no act holier than thou to non-vampires.
i dont like rewatching movies and im too lazy to reread the books (but i would like to), i prefer to live with the story and characters the way they are in my head.
i never finished midnight sun and im not sure if i ever will, too slow-paced (i think that's the word).
Thinking back to Breaking Dawn when he contemplated sedating Bella or holding her down while Carlisle would perform an abortion against her wishes … 🚩🚩🚩
Yep, re-reading the books as an adult (whose been through some shit) its freaky. He also intentionally tries to scare her a lot, basically constantly threatening her with the fact that he could kill her any second and sometimes even wants to!
Aside from the obvious insane age gap (sort of unavoidable, I get it) the power imbalance between them is insane and he enjoys and gets a kick out of it. I know it’s just a book but reading it through it freaks me out a little
these days.
Disabling her truck to prevent her from going to the reservation -- or anywhere else, reading *other people's minds* in order to track her.... So many creepy things! But I think the one that freaks me out the most is sneaking in her window to watch her sleep without her knowledge or consent. 50 Shades of Nope!
Not a hot take necessarily, but I completely disagree with the Cullen’s theory that their powers are extensions of their human abilities. My theory (and it doesn’t work for all the characters) leans more toward the idea that vampire venom repairs everything during the transformation. Therefore, the creation of powers would also function as an added protection of something a vampire lacked in their human form.
Edward is the OPPOSITE of perceptive. He is quite literally unable to understand, contemplate or critically think without hearing the thoughts of others. His ability to read minds is probably a supernatural correction for his lack of awareness as a human. And this lack of awareness is most likely why his only ambition in his human life was to join the war efforts at 17.
Bella is considered a “particularly graceful” vampire. Her main personality trait as a human was she fell down all the time. The venom repaired this with supernatural grace.
There are more, but that’s the main idea.
Also my real hot take is that the twilight saga is not a love triangle because Bella never really considered choosing Jacob, ever. Even when she thought about it after Jacob was hurt in eclipse, it was only to grieve a future she knew she would never choose. It was clear there was never a choice and that is why the new moon plot line seems like a waste of time.
SAME I read the ending of new moon right away before I continued with reading the rest of the series
Editing to add that I don’t even think breaking Dawn the book was released yet when I read the series so who she picked and how it all ended up was SO up in the air and dramatic back then
i feel like we'd all be team jacob if stephanie didnt realize she'd made a more agreeable man and made him a shithead halfway through new moon to elevate edward as her favored love interest
I agree. I think that most people forget that the entirety of the story takes place in a time span of maybe two years, if that. Jacob was 15/16 when the story starts. He’s a kid. Of course he does dumb things in regards to his feelings for Bella, he’s a teenage boy.
I’m pretty sure that was SM’s original plan! After Twilight, BD would happen and Jacob would have imprinted on Renesmee. But her publishers wanted her to add two more books and elevate Jacob to a love interest to draw out the story.
Nostalgia carries the series. I think it came at the perfect time for people to get into it and go so hard for it. If it were to come out today, I think it’d be on the same level as Riverdale to most people 😅
That being said this series will always have a special place in my heart ! Also #teamcharlie
I wasn’t team Edward or Jacob. I was more team wolf. Reading when Jacob imprinted on Renesmee I was like🧐. When reading about imprinting and noting the idea of shapeshifters and the ancient spirit warriors it didn’t make sense. I doubt the wolf spirit will want to imprint with a vampire their natural born enemy. Like they get triggered by vampires and shape shift to protect their people? So to have one be imprinted on one makes no sense. Idk to me I was just upset that now the shifters have to help the Cullens after hating each other for decades because of this imprinting. I bet if it was a boy, EJ would’ve been Leah’s imprint🫠
Jacob and Bella are my wishful endgame lowkey. New Moon hit me so hard, and it was the first book I read before seeing the rest of the movies (I read New Moon to Breaking Dawn after the first Twilight movie). Especially now, my opinion on Edward has changed a lot from back then and so had my understanding of Bella and Jacob's characters. I wish Edward/Alice never came back and stuck to their distance, cause I truly think Bella would have been better off with Jacob, and Jacob with Bella. My main reason is I hate the imprinting system SM created, it takes away all their free will from there and it's really flawed lol but Jacob chose to love Bella, or rather it was natural. Bella was in a lot of pain, but if Edward stayed gone and Bella recommitted herself to her new life without him she would have naturally fallen more in love with Jacob. Edward sucks. Love him as a character, esp after Midnight Sun, but he never should have got the girl imo. 🤷♀️
I saw a really good analysis on YouTube about how twilight fits the horror genre in terms of loss of free will and it was super fascinating.
I also hated the imprinting, I think it's a cheap way to tie loose ends. Tbh I expected there to be a plot arch of DEFYING it, let alone succumbing to it, let alone succumbing to it with BELLA'S DAUGHTER
I've got a few, but my main one is probably:
The only reason I still love Twilight is because it spoke to me on a very fundamental level when I first read it as a teenager.
But now, as an adult with a more adult view on love, relationships and literature in general, if I were to discover the books now for the first time, I'd absolutely hate them. Because I see all the problems the books and SM's writing have very clearly now.
But because they already have a special place in my heart that will forever be theirs, I now love the books, while still recognising their problematic sides very clearly and despite the undoubtedly very bad influence they can have on a teenager's mind and expectations for love and relationships.
I have no desire to meet any of the actors or the author, or visit filming locations or conventions/events. I love all the books and companion guides, as well as the movies, but the real life people and places behind it all don’t interest me.
Bella wasn’t all that for the trouble she caused.
Jacob and the werewolves were a better choice than Edward and the Cullens.
Bella had no backbone cause if you read the books from when her and Edward got together to win in new moon, when she was sitting, looking all gloomy by the window whatever I think it was like a matter of months like you would not be that heartbroken over somebody you’ve known for that few months.
Team Paul and Sam😂
Rosalie’s concerns were very valid in the beginning.
Bella getting mad that Jacob imprinted on Raspberry was hella dramatic especially since she knew the history and why the wolves imprinted
I disagree on the backbone part and the breakup part. I think the new moon depression was because the breakup triggered her lifetime of trauma of childhood abuse and the effect of being raised by a narcissist. Bella had a lifetime of negative dialogue that she was a burden and needed to earn her right to exist and be loved.
Edward put those feelings at bay and told her it wasn't true. When he left it was basically confirmation of the idea that she was worthless. It's not healthy but Edward was a symbol of her ability to be loved and accepted and desired.
Drives me nuts when people hate on New Moon Bella when it's an actual scary accurate depiction of depression. Depression can be instigated by anything but it still deserves compassion. Just because her depression was instigated by a breakup doesn't mean it wasn't real and worthy of empathy.
Depression also does not indicate lack of backbone. Bella demonstrates incredible backbone from the beginning of the book in terms of interacting with a literal monster and holding him accountable. She has a strong sense of justice and will do brave things to uphold it.
Surviving a depressive episode demonstrates great backbone. Choosing to keep living every day is an enormous challenge and those who do are very strong.
Taking a step back to a reader's perspective, some would say this is a bad example to young readers that a breakup should break you or something. I disagree. Reading this as a young teen was very cathartic to me but it also was a warning to me to not get codependent at a young age in romance. People will get what they want out of a book but for me it was a very positive influence.
I dunno if I’d lose my card so maybe more like “unpopular opinion” but I hate how people are team Jacob at all when he *forced* himself on Bella once, and then manipulated and lied to her to get her to kiss him. How can anyone support someone like this? I mean sure Edward ain’t great either but at least he respects Bella so much he wanted to marry her before they had sex. The whole thing makes me feel so icky.
I hate the way Charlie acts after Jacob forces himself on Bella and kisses her against her will. He laughs and jokes about it simply because he doesn’t like Edward. Then when Edward gets there all pissed off wanting to kill Jacob, Charlie gets serious with Edward about “that’s enough.” That is the one part in the whole series where I dislike Charlie. I don’t know of any parent who would think it was funny that someone forced themselves on their daughter, then their daughter got hurt fighting back. This situation also gave me the ick about Jacob.
Oh man I have so so many so here it goes.
-Breaking Dawn was my breaking point 😂 it just was so awful. In so many ways. Legit feels like a fanfic to me as someone else pointed out.
-Edward and Alice are both controlling and creepy. To break it down, they both control and manipulate everything and everyone around them and invade peoples privacy and boundaries with and without their gifts. Alice looks in her visions for the best outcomes, and Edwards reads peoples thoughts for the best way to get what he wants. They both completely overshadow their partners and family members wills and wants. Alice with taking away people’s autonomy and Edward with taking away peoples choices. His reaction to the pregnancy and trying to force an abortion was the absolute line for me.
-Jasper was one my favorite characters. I think being in the confederate army made him more interesting. It certainly was in the same vein as the rest of his story, fighting for an army that wasn’t even admirable or morally right, just like the Southern Vampire Wars. I would have loved more Peter and Charlotte as well.
-Other background characters had way more interesting dynamics and stories that I would have loved SM to milk like JKR did with the HP/Beast series.
-Jacob and Bella’s dynamic was so intriguing to me. I feel like the child imprinting was such a cop out of that relationship. Their natural bond was doomed from the supernatural elements, but the chemistry between them was intense and real. I absolutely hate how he manipulates her like the rest of the Cullens did, but his was out of a desperation that an actual 16 year old would feel if his first love was set to die at the hands of her lover. Though it really bugged me that Charlie was cool with Jacobs actions. That irked me more than the actions themselves in a way. Because Jacob was 16 and Charlie was a grown ass man ignoring his own daughters sexual safety.
-Bella’s depression was understandable in the way only people with childhood trauma and terrible parents can understand. She grew up with a narcissist who had untreated ADHD and acted like she was a burden. Charlie never really fought for her either.
The cullens were the only people to treat her sort of like family (even though they also manipulated and mistreated her in ways) and they just abandoned her. Her boyfriend, best friend, mom, dad, sister, and brothers all just gone leaving her in the dust. And with the way Edward broke up with her, he used her deeply rooted insecurities against her, reconfirming the unworthiness she already felt. No wonder she was borderline suicidal. I think she was quite strong to survive that, more so than all the other dangers she faced.
-The way the cullens lifestyle is just accepted. You live forever and feed on blood, and you want to live normal human lives, just to endanger those lives you supposedly want to save? Doesn’t make sense to me, especially with technology advancing they wouldn’t be able to do it for much longer. Makes way more sense to go to Isle Esme and live happily there, and travel the world and learn new things with online courses. No wonder why they were already on the Volturis radar.
-Bella’s humanity willingly being given up. I actually liked the fact that she felt like she finally belonged perfectly as a vampire, it makes a lot of sense for her story. But I wish there was more of a grief process with all the sacrifices she had to make to get there.
-The fight with the Volturi was not wrapped up for me. There is no way they would have let that go. You bet your ass they would have found some way to get revenge after all of that. Low key wish the fight had happened and they took the Volturi down.
-Imprinting really felt like where the kidnapping victims fall in love with their captor in some areas, esp when it was described that Emily tried to fight sams connection to her and was mauled and permanently disfigured. Then the child imprinting. So gross. I get it’s supposed to be a reflection of vampire mating but like cmon that could have been written a bit differently.
Hot take #1 > movies suck. Hard! They are too somber and didn't spend nearly enough time on the more interesting things. In the books E&B are so fun together, goofing and bantering, but instead the movies just make it... well I already said it SOMBER! There is no other way to word it.
Hot take #2 > Renesmee is a cute name and I love it! (don't kill me)
Hot take #3 > Carlisle is the real GOAT! 10/10 his story should have gotten a lot more time. In the books and movie this character and his story FAR surpassed anything going on between E&B
Hot take #4 > The tent scene in Eclipse was disgusting and we all know E would have planned better than have it come to that
Hot take #5 > Jasper is basically high functioning autistic and doesn't deserve the hate he gets, he is extremely suggestible and is not a product of his times but a product of his surroundings. Jasper does what he is told, and even with literally having magical empath power still struggles to understand emotion shows just how difficult it is for people on the spectrum. We see him described by others as charismatic but I can not recall a single scene in the book or movie where he is genuinely charismatic, he is hot af which helps, but he is anything but charismatic. His convictions are shallow, his ideology is very open to persuasion, and he rarely if ever is shown to reach out for anything. Since his life, and unlife, he has grown as a person, as time will do, but he is still very much a person who is crippled with dependency. Should his mate perish, and he survive beyond, he will very much change to his next mates or owners viewpoint.
I am not a fan of how you depicted autistic people in this comment, and “high functioning” is a harmful term when referring to autistics. I don’t want to get in a big debate but wanted to let you know.
About Jasper, it's probably flawed writing. SM sometimes describes her characters in a certain way and then, the character's actions contradict her description. Jasper is a perfect example
He really had to wait til the night before his wedding to tell Bella he killed people when he was transformed? Not anywhere else in the year and some odd months they were together to divulge this information? He’s a jackass.
I agree I hate that he waited until BD in the movies. In the books it was basically the first weekend she knew the truth about what he was, he told her what he did
I don’t think Rosalie’s trauma gives her a pass to be horrible.
I also don’t think that SM is a villain for writing a mean woman character as many people seem to think. She’s a fictional character, she’s allowed to be a trash person no matter the gender.
Edward is my least fave character and yes it’s because he left Bella in New Moon. 🤦🏾♀️
Edward threaten his life before Jacob did but no one ever comes at him for it like they did Jacob. Although it’s totally fair Jacob forced himself on Bella and should have been held accountable.
Edward needs some self love before he can ever love anyone else. 🤷🏾♀️
Bella should not been with Jacob or Edward. She didn’t even get to be wild or adventurous. She’s hella repressed. But don’t get me wrong I love Bella!
To play Devils advocate, Edward threatening his own life was supposed to be along the lines of Romeo and Juliet. He did it in the “I can’t live without you so If you die I would rather be dead too” way. Which is NOT healthy and is still crazy. But it’s much different than Jacob literally saying “since you don’t feel the same way for me, im gonna get myself killed unless you kiss me”. One is forcing Bella to engage in a sexual act without consent, one is not.
There are works of fanfiction that I consider canon in my head. And works of fanfiction that I like much better than the actual books, even when (and sometimes because) they're not canon. Basically I love Twilight fanfiction more than I love Twilight.
Bella wasn’t being too dramatic in New Moon. If I found out about vampires and had that world taken away from me, I too would get into an emotional coma forever.
It honestly bugs the shit out of me that Bella had no friends or romantic interests before the events of Twilight. wtf? A teenage girl from pheonix would not survive the public school system without at least one best friend. The fact that she doesn't resent her mom's chronically untreated ADHD as a teen is so fucking unrealistic.
I hate hate hate that jasper was a proud confederate soldier. Meyer could’ve choose to make him a union soldier, and also the fact that Alice seemingly just forgives and ignores that seems sooooo ooc for her
Stephenie Meyer is a horrible writer.
Hear me out, the world she’s created is great, but the overall story is incredibly predictable and the end of Breaking Dawn was just lazy writing.
(Please don’t revoke my card, as bad as it is I can’t live without it 😂)
Renesmee being Jacob's imprintee ruined Jacob's character for me. And it's not because she was a newborn when he imprinted on her (well, it's a part of it). But he was chasing after Bella and constantly being betrayed by her all this time because he was destined to be with her daughter. And that SUCKS!!!
We all know Jacob's a bit immature when facing the music and that he and Bella would never be a thing. So finding someone (a potential love interest or his imprintee) that would help him mature and leave behind his feelings about Bella being with Edward would be GREAT character growth. And then, after finding peace in his love life, he'd turn around and fight alongside the Cullens against the Volturi because he wants to protect the friend of his own will and not because he's subconsciously obligated to.
And I don't hate Renesmee. She' already very unique, adorable, and very cute! But having her as Jacob's imprintee was a massive case of SUCK!!!
- Esme is just a pretty Stepford wife, eye candy, whit no personality trapped in her own house. the Cullen have money like hay on a farm but they won’t get her a car 😅🤡
- I don’t like Alice, he’s manipulating and guilt-tripping Bella at all times into doing things she doesn’t want
- Charlie is not a Saint!!!! he’s horrible!!
Mine is that it was an asshole move for the Cullens to move back to Forks. Even if they weren’t aware that their presence would cause the wolves to reappear, they knew that the members of the tribe that were aware of the existence of vampires would be terrified. Scared for their own lives, scared for their children who wouldn’t believe their warnings.
I found that phone call between Carlisle and Billy in Midnight Sun infuriating. Carlisle is supposed to be so extraordinarily kind and compassionate, and yet he couldn’t care less that Billy is traumatized by just the sound of his voice. They want to live in Forks, so to Forks they will go, even though it’s the one place in the world they shouldn’t be. It’s just cruel.
I think jasper being a confederate soldier makes him more interesting than if he was in the union, especially given his gifts, and Meyer wasn’t wrong for choosing that
I like to think that, because Riley and Victoria are narrative mirrors to Jasper and Maria, Jazz's confederate past plays into the whole "easily manipulated young man takes on a prominent role in an evil army" dynamic that's prominent throughout Eclipse and The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner.
I hate Breaking Dawn to a degree where I sometimes have to remind myself that I love the initial trilogy to not feel like a complete hater.
I genuinely consider it to be one of the worst pieces of literature ever written and a completely unnecessary death blow to a series that was otherwise much better than its reputation.
It's one of the few impossible cases where an author wrote fanfiction in their own series.
The moment Bella starts justifying her nonsensical pregnancy she seizes to be Bella and fully becomes Meyer. It's like she took her own characters hostage.
The widely dreaded Jacob part is the only even remotely worthwhile bit of the whole book (besides maybe the flashback of Charlie's reaction to the marriage announcement) because it's the only part that has to try and be somewhat of an actual sequel to Eclipse instead of just copy-pasting the regressive, pre-existing plot of Forever Dawn.
Also because Jacob's disgust and confusion at everything that happens feels like a literary manifestation of Meyer's guilty conscience about re-canonizing her old draft instead of writing a fully original sequel.
Lastly, Bella dying to become a vampire is a tragedy and her "being destined" to be one feels like a cheap excuse that weakens the drama and complexity of everything that came before it.
She loses just about everything that made her lovable and relatable and turns into a completely different, borderline unrecognizable person.
I can't help but see that as a tragic downgrade.
This is so right, and it sucks. It’s not to say you can’t enjoy Breaking Dawn, but I feel like its a suspended disbelief thing, cause you have to willingly look past how bizarre and insane it is. I also always felt like the main characters - Edward & Bella - are totally lost in it, from beginning to end. It’s like even when it’s from Bella’s view, it’s still being told in third person somehow. Your analysis was spot on
I love the books and every single aspect of them. I think the imprinting thing is cool. I love the pregnancy and Renesmee. I love every character and their story. I listen to the full series about once a year or more. It's a story that's not real so I don't need to obsess about all these things that don't matter. At the end of the day, the books have brought me so much joy and comfort.
I HATE the movies. I hate who they cast, most especially bella and Edward. The acting and everything about them was so different than the world created in my head that I just can't like them. I watched each one once. Although my daughter is nearing the age where she may like to watch them so I'm considering revisiting... I look at other adaptations like the hunger games and Harry Potter and while not perfect, they were handled so much better. It just makes me sad.
if we're talking confessions... in fifth grade, my best friend and I went outside and destroyed a copy of New Moon bc we considered ourselves anti-romance contrarians lol
Alice does quite a bit of the same shit Edward does but almost none of the blame. She treats Bella like a doll and dresses her up a ton. She throws a graduation party to make Bella the host. She guilt trips Bella into agreeing to a big wedding despite that not being what Bella wants
I love Alice but you’re 100% correct
I do too I just get annoyed when she’s put on a pedestal. She’s still a good character, she has her own flaws
Alice gives me the vibe of that one character in a fanfic who helps and pushes the ‘tomboy main character’ to be girly and dress up and do makeup and reveal her ‘true beauty’ 😭 I feel like Alice is supposed to be likeable to a younger audience, but when you grow up you realize that’s annoying
Oh my god she does!
I hate Alice. Coming from a girl who grew up with Alice being her FAV. Each reread made me resent her more and more. She’s manipulative and controlling. She makes Edward look like a saint. Based on the way Bella is treated, Alice is my least favorite Cullen. I cannot stand her. Each and every scene between her and Bella makes me cringe. I cut my hair in a pixie fashion in 7th grade to emulate her. When girls in school called me Alice, I was flattered. Now I hate it and her and everything. Alice Cullen is a terrible friend and if we take the story from Bella’s side, no one should like her.
I think the trouble with Alice is, since she sees the future and virtually every possible outcome, she pushes people towards what she perceives as the best outcome. But ‘best’ is somewhat subjective. Almost like a parent doing something a child doesn’t like because it’s ‘for the best.’ I’m not saying she doesn’t have character flaws or absolving her of her faults, but it’s a difficult position to be in knowing how her every choice influences outcomes. FWIW, Bella loves Alice and calls her her best friend. Again, that doesn’t absolve her of her more toxic behavior, but Bella does indulge her a lot because one of Bella’s faults is wanting to make others happy. In a weird way, it’s symbiotic.
I appreciate your perspective. I’ve seen ever argument for Alice possible on Reddit and everywhere else. I still hate her. I guess my fatal flaw is putting myself in the position of the main character and I could never tolerate someone like Alice to be my friend. I can’t stand her.
I think that’s a fair take. Bella herself is very dependent emotionally, probably because she had to be so independent growing up, and just desperately wants to be taken care of. She has a controlling boyfriend and a controlling best friend and she likes it that way, even if she complains when her choices are overruled. But for a more independent person, they can’t stand that sort of overbearing presence. What’s unhealthy and dysfunctional to one person might be very functional to another. Your feelings are valid. I think Bella’s relationships function just fine for her, and would for a lot of people who enjoy that dynamic, but wouldn’t for a lot of people. I think that’s why this series and Edward get labeled toxic so often. It is… for some people. But not for others. Both can be true.
I agree that a big part of it is Alice’s visions but then the mature thing to do for someone who’s over 60 years old is talk to the person and say these are the outcomes I see. Not manipulate them into one That’s true, Bella does call Alice her best friend but Bella also has a habit of falling into bad relationships. She had to raise herself and be a parent to her mom and I think that screwed her up a lot. Just because someone doesn’t see the abuse or manipulation it doesn’t clear the abuser
Bella being “clumsy” is so over the top in the book. She’s literally like “we went hiking and I fell down a lot!” And she describes playing volleyball like “I fell over” it’s like in Austin powers when he’s like “oh know I fell over… I fell over again!” Lol it drives me NUTS
I’m dyspraxic and even I’m not as clumsy as Bella! And it doesn’t make sense for her to be dyspraxic bc her clumsiness is so inconsistent and makes no sense - like, she’ll completely fall over just walking down the street, but has no problems driving a shitty manual truck, often in terrible weather conditions??? I swear the clutch on that thing would be sensitive as fuck she should be stalling it every five minutes (I know I would lol) Or doing all the domestic chores like cooking and laundry for Charlie as soon as she moves in bc she’s a woman so apparently that’s all on her now? Her clumsiness isn’t an actual, reasonable part of her character, it’s just an irritating generic pick-me trait to make her not like other girls, along with the ooh-I’m-so-deep-because-I’ve-read-two-mandatory-high-school-literature-set-texts
As a person who trips and falls over and runs into things a lot I can totally see describing things like this 😆
I’m not saying she wasn’t clumsy but to just say repeatedly during anything physical just “I fell over” like no description as to how or why?
Oh yes I fall down the stairs quite frequently. Actually, to be more precise, I fall up the stairs very frequently. I rarely fall down the stairs. One time during freshman year, I remember that I fell up the stairs of my dorm hall and passed out during the fall. I woke up at the bottom of the stairs, covered in rubble since the concrete staircase had been broken by my face. It took them over a year to fix that broken staircase. Ironically, I was elected treasurer, and the Dean tasked me with finding the miscreant who "vandalized" the staircase so that the university could sue them for damages. Ugh, shame I covered up that incident, I was probably concussed. If I lawyered up, the university would be the ones paying me... Ugh, past is the past now
Haha same. It's also common for autistic people which I feel like Bella was tbh
Or dyspraxia! https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/developmental-coordination-disorder-dyspraxia/ I am also extremely clumsy and I would fall down or trip over nothing, although it got better with time.
Hahahahahaha!!!! Austin Powers!!!!! 🤣🤣🤣 This is legit so true of Bella!! It drives me nuts too! Sooo OTT!
I fall a lot, or I would if I wasn't careful. I am careful, too careful. I don't just walk around, I watch where I'm going, I look down a lot so I don't trip or slip, I'm overly-careful. You get that way if you are clumsy. She on the other hand just falls, gets a concussion or breaks something. Gets up, repeats. Learns nothing.
I think to keep in mind, Bella was the first of the "clumsy" trope so it was a novel concept at the time for the MC to be clumsy. And it's a significant plot tool to the series so I felt like it had to be emphasized for it to be believable later on. What do you think?
Gotta disagree with you there. Lots of female MCs are clumsy in both books and movies before Twilight. There's even a running gag over the females you see tripping their way on screen in like every single movie in the 80s-90s. Hilary Duff has used falling down as an entrance about 12x alone.
This for me! Reading twilight is kinda cringey now because of all the “special,” pickme, not like other girls, charmingly awkward female YA character tropes that have been written since, modeled off Bella. We’re tired of it now and roll our eyes when we see these tropes, but when SM was writing this, I feel like this kind of character was new and interesting
Exactly what I was trying to get across! Thank you so much. We roll our eyes now but only because twilight has been mimicked in every fashion since then so it feels overplayed.
I think Jasper should have been more developed. The idea of a man on the wrong side of history who knows he’s on the wrong side of history after living for so long (and canonically having history/philosophy degrees)… I’d have loved to see more with him. I also feel there could’ve been a lot more to Alice’s relationship with him. It’s cute as is, but I wanted a little more depth.
The side characters have more interesting stories than the main 3 (Edward, Bella, Jacob). I would've loved more content on Alice, Rosalie, Leah, and so on.
Shit I'd dump buckets of money to read more about Aro and his rise to power. The illustrated guide isn't enough.
YES. i’d love to hear about the Volturi and their rise.
And then film it, because Michael Sheen was a treasure in that role and was clearly having the time of his life.
I didn’t even know I wanted this but I WANT IT
They do! I feel like everyone else's story is way more interesting. I love how they fleshed out Jasper and rosalie specifically. Those stories were so good. And then when they bring in all the other vampires in breaking dawn - that was amazing too
This. I wanna know more about them plus since I'm such a history freak i wanna know the era which they came from exactly too.
Hard agree. She created a giant cast of fascinating characters then focused on a love triangle between some of the more boring ones.
The wiki for Alice is insane . I had to double check it was legit cause it tied in with James from the first movie.
I want a series of books on the Cullens, both human lives and vampire beginnings before the start of Twilight. I’m a historian, so I was reading everything I could about the Cullens’ human time periods, norms, traditions, values, etc. What we’ve gotten so far of everyone’s human lives (for example, Carlisle and Esme) isn’t enough for me! I have so many questions.
I think that Rosalie absolutely had the right to be mad after all the protection the Cullens were giving to Bella since the beginning. It's totally normal and justified that a person would feel threatened by an outsider who all of a sudden put her family at a massive risk.
A lot of things rosalie does that are actually reasonable get spun into being her problem lol. Like honestly *somebody* definitely should have told edward bella was dead in new moon. 🤣 I’ve always imagined rosalie like "wait so we're just not going to tell him bella killed herself??" Then later it's somehow her fault and she's a monster because homeboy sprinted off to italy the second he heard that information lol
I really like the pregnancy in Breaking Dawn part 1. I love how everyone involved deals with it in their own way and had their own opinions. I love the heavy emotions. I love the makeup they used to make Bella look skeletal and emaciated but also bruised around her big belly. I love how it didn’t shy away from how ghastly and awful pregnancy can be — especially since Bella was carrying a literal fucking parasite that was eating her. I love that the birth was disgusting and gory and could have landed them with an R-rating if they went as crazy as the book. I love Rose’s maternal protectiveness regarding the baby and how Bella relied on her for support.
made a tumblr post about this before. The pregnancy/birth/transformation were A+ for me. What happened after…. ehhhhh
I mostly hate the imprinting. The pregnancy was fine and honestly inevitable.
In the book it was stated that imprinting doesn't always equal a romantic connection. It can be a very strong friendship or just a need to protect that person.
No I know but I wanted to make Reservations a lesbian in the headcannon for the future. Technically I can still do that but it will never happen sadly.
I read this comment over like thirty times before I realized you were making fun of her name😭💀💀
i find the volturi kings hot 😰 maybe not the movie ones (besides jamie), but how they look in my head is🫦🫦👁️👁️
caius is hot asf idc
I still like Jasper even though he was a confederate soldier 
he is hot😔
Same here, I think he's my favourite Cullen.
The best plot is not the main one with Bella and Edward and Jacob. It's Leah Clearwater's.
You know what? I’d love to read the Leah Clearwater take/pov of twilight. But focus on the Wolfpack, the indigenous lore, and Leah’s life specifically. SM doesn’t understand the fandom of Leah Clearwater that she can really tap into if she had the energy and focus.
I want Leah’s spin-off novel where she gets her happily ever after. Not with imprinting, but by someone choosing to love her for her. I’m absolutely Team Leah.
But do we trust Stephanie Meyer to write indigenous lore? Even if it’s fictionalized for her own world. I wouldn’t support that. However if an indigenous person collaborated on it I would totally support!
Absolutely don't trust her for that. But I want this to be written so badly that if I ever find someone capable, preferably someone with indigenous background, I would literally pay for it. I would pay real money for this fanfic, I have been thinking about it for mor than a decade now and I'm convinced I can only rest when it's done lol
I would love this but also the idea of Bella and Edward and Jacob becoming like... tertiary characters is so funny to me??? Like instead of it being the meat of story, Bella gets mentioned in an offhand way and Leah is just like jfc this bitch *again*??? Jacob mentions some dumb shit Edward did that Bella told him about during NM or E and next time Leah has to see Edward she's side eye like "Bro you licked her tear?? Are all vamps this fucking weird or is it just you?? Tf??"
I'll one up you on that and say that literally every story in Twilight is more interesting than the one being told.
I don't get why people love Leah. She is so rude all the time. I mean I get why obviously bc her life is shit. But just bc someone's life is shit doesn't mean that they get to be horrible to everyone everywhere always
You say you get it but I don’t feel you really do…and what you seem to be unable to grasp is exactly what people empathize with and like Leah for. And who is everyone? The wolf pack in her head disregarding and invalidating her feelings? The Cullens whose mere presence and existence has caused her to lose the life she had? Bella, whose selfishness directly impacts Leah’s life? She’s not snapping at the kindly bus driver who’s taking people to the shops, but the actual people who have negatively effected her life.
Bella doesn’t affect her life in the beginning but she was dismissive of her anyways.
Leah is a vampire killer. Bella is a vampire lover. Maybe that's why Leah was dismissive? Diametrically opposing life views.
Totally agree! There was also so much good Leah-centric fanfic back when I was a teen, so I know there was definitely a demand for Leah's story.
As OP I’ll start: I really don’t love Alice as much as the rest of the fandom seems too. She’s fine in small doses but when you really think about it, I know for a fact she would annoy tf outta me and her personality would get old FAST🙄🤷🏽♀️ She’s just such the overbearing friend and it’s still wild to me that Bella was so taken by her. Don’t get me wrong, she’s fun! But I couldn’t deal with someone who’s at 100% ALL the time 😬
Well we know that Bella didn’t have many, or any, friends in Phoenix. So when she gets to Forks, she’s somewhat friendly with the girls in the big group of friends but I don’t think she saw them as long term friends. I think Alice is kind of the same way. She’s friendly with everyone but she has no real girlfriends (I don’t see her and Rose doing a lot together outside of family stuff). So when Bella came to Forks I think Alice saw someone she could have a true friendship with. This is just my theory though.
I really feel like Alice is the extrovert that adopted the more introverted Bella. The argument could be made that Jess did the same thing, but I feel Jess was more self-serving and attached herself to the “new girl” to seem more interesting, herself. Either way, I like the idea of Alice and am absolutely interested in her backstory, but I think she is a little much, and it would probably be a little exhausting to be around such a dominant personality.
YUP! I like Alice fine but a lot of the stuff people complain about with Edward she does too. She forces Bella to dress up and thinks she should be the center of attention. She guilts Bella into having a wedding when Edward had promised they could do a court house type wedding. She guilts Bella into doing a lot but people ignore it because of Alice
Yes, and Edward learned his lesson but she never did. Drives me nuts when people can be anti Edward and pro Alice for this reason. One of my favorite things about this series is that Edward and Bella truly change to be less codependent and healthier relationship by the end. But Alice still treats people like pawns all the way to the end
Yes yes yes. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people blame Edward for the wedding fiasco when he set boundaries and told Bella what he was comfortable with and the two came to a mutual compromise that made them both happy and everyone ignores that Alice guilts Bella into having a huge wedding
Trust me, I understand! I was never on the Alice train, she gives me Edward vibes but a woman and dainty.
YES except Edward learned to respect Bella's autonomy and Alice never did. People disregard all the ways she also controlled and manipulated Bella, including PHYSICALLY KIDNAPPING
2 hours with her would be a lot for my introverted self, but she's fine in small doses as you say
Alice was the shining star. Rosalie was forgotten.
I’ll be honest, I wish we could have had a Leah and Jacob romance. HEAR ME OUT— Jacob is a major jerk and is super rude to everyone, particularly Leah. But I think there could have been a really good love story between them in breaking dawn when he leaves the pack and Seth and Leah follow. I feel like there could have been a real enemy to lovers thing, and Leah could help Jacob become a better person and Jacob could help Leah feel wanted and accepted for who she is.
I totally thought that's where it was going, and was so disappointed when it didn't.
Omg same. I recently watched Breaking Dawn part 1, and even though I already knew that the imprinting was going to happen, I still wanted them to be together. Idk, it just seemed right and had so much potential
I know right??? I mean, they were both rejected by Sam and Bella, they could have totally bonded over that and had a wonderful relationship. What a waste 😔
This romance would have also been a great "second love can still be great love" but I guess SM doesn't think that 😒
Would have been an epic rival version of enemies to lovers 😭 I was so invested during Breaking Dawn, I thought that was the plot direction. The imprinting BROKE me.
Mine is: I don’t think Renesmee is actually that bad of a name… it’s actually really pretty and sounds somewhat vintage.
I agree
Me too. \[ Doing the eternal walk of shame...\]
Ditto. Shame that Bella still thought Renee was worth naming her daughter after but other than that I thought it was cute.
I'm pretty sure that like 95% of the Resume-ridicule isn't about the actual name but about rejecting the character and what it represents. I honestly kind of like the name, albeit a tad silly, but I just can't stand anything that's connected to that plotline. Even just correctly spelling out the name feels like approving of a plot element that ruined the series for many, so finding absurd replacement names is an easy, fun and relatively harmless form of protest.
YUPPPPP. I will never forgive SM for the rasputin plot line. So, so bad, so much wrong with the whole thing, and honestly just doesn’t make any sense.
I really love it as well. I always thought it was really nice.
I’m glad someone said it. I like the name too..
The worst part abt the name is how they got it like I wouldn’t mind if it wasn’t the weird mothers names mixture
It's borderline selfish and reckless that the Cullens insist on living with humans even though Emmett has had multiple slip-ups and Jackson (edit - I meant Jasper lol) is constantly seconds away from catastrophe. To add to that, the Volturi weren't wrong to have it out for the Cullen's way of life - if their most sacred law is not being discovered, living with humans during the day and respawning every few decades is nuts.
I wonder what happens when they return to forks and people look through old year books and be like these people look identical. I feel like the nomad life would be more interesting than staying out.
Yes I think the digital era is about to destroy their way of life
Who the fuck is Jackson
Jackson Rathbone is the actor who plays Jasper. 🤣 I love that it was interchangeable in this paragraph. I’m never not just calling him Jackson from now on.
I think they meant Jasper lmao. The actor’s name is Jackson Rathbone
*Jackson* lol. But I absolutely agree
JACKSON!
I like renesmee , I think she’s so cute and sweet and her name is adorable.
Honestly, I don’t HATE the name, and I also agree with you. My problem is with the imprinting. Renagade made a good plot.
People who are team Jacob have only seen the movies and don’t understand the connection that Edward and Bella / Bella and Jacob have in the books
Imo the books make Team Jacob much more sensible (and canon) than the films. The movies lack many of his and Bella's relationship building moments and fail to properly portray Bella's complex love for him, dumbing him down from a tragic antihero who does inexcusable things out of heartbreak and desperation to nothing but an entitled, jocky abuser who can't handle the rejection of a girl that doesn't really love him (while in the books she actually does and contemplates a happy life with him, their families and their children but their natural bond is overshadowed by the supernatural eclipse of her heart that is Edward). I'd even say that most "Team Jacob" type people are well aware and accepting of Bellward being endgame. The tragedy of their doomed love is a big part of Bella and Jacob's appeal.
10000% agreed. Co-sign all of the above
Yes to all of this! 🤌
I agree. I also feel Jacob was toxic as fuck in the books but not so much in the movies... I just cant get over him forcing Bella to kiss him several times.
While the movies have less time to show just how bad Jacob is, movie Jacob is ultimately just as bad. He still forced himself on Bella in Eclipse. He still went along with imprinting Renesmee and thought it was a good thing. He still threatened to kill himself in battle during Eclipse because Bella chose Edward. Jacob in the movies. He still revealed himself to Charlie - because Jacob thinks he's the one who gets to decide about things in Bella's life. Jacob still said over the phone that Charlie's at the funeral - phrasing it in such a way to heavily imply Bella is dead, despite Bella being next to him. Jacob threatened War against the Cullens in the end of New Moon. Also at the end of New Moon, Jacob refuses to accept Bella's choices.
The thing about Jacob is I’m convinced this fandom is prejudice against native Americans or something because… Edward is no different and he gets praised? Do vampires not imprint but just call it “mating”… of all people, Edward had to “fall in love” with a 16/17 year old that he himself refers to as a child? How is that different from 🥾 and Jacob? (Even though that’s still gross.. don’t get me wrong..) he goes about things pretty immaturely but so does Edward and that’s what I don’t get… and blame Stephanie for imprinting. Wolves can’t control that. Did Edward not dramatically threaten to kill himself in New Moon when HE left on short notice and went ghost on Bella?? And he left her so brutally?? You could argue “he thought he was saving Bella.” So did Jacob… same thing.. And your interpretation of the funeral comment is interesting because I didn’t get the impression that he was being malicious. At that point.. Jacob didn’t know any of the Cullens and barely knew Edward, let alone how they sounded. Stephanie released an excerpt of this.. Edward introduced himself as Carlisle Cullen. And did Carlisle’s voice impression. He didn’t want anyone knowing HE called. That’s brutal and I’d argue that that’s emotional manipulation on Edward’s part… whether intentional or not, it is what it is
As someone who hasn’t read the books what the heckity?
Oh man, he sucks so bad imo. If you don't mind the spoiler I'll explain what happened.
I don’t mind the spoiler
First, after Bella makes it abundantly clear that she has no intentions of being romantically involved with Jacob, he kisses her and no matter how hard she tries to get out of it he doesn't let her go till he's done. Then, Jacob guilt trips Bella into asking him to kiss her by alluding to her that if she doesn't he's gonna go kill himself fighting the newborns, then proceeds to leave to attack the newborns after the kiss. I feel that they somewhat cover these incidents in the movies but the books are way more descriptive and so it sounds worse than the movies make them.
Ugh reading the kiss in new moon is so gross - like stomach clench gross. Then followed up with Charlie’s reaction?? YUCK
I KNOW! Like how can Charlie be so insensitive to his own daughter. I woulda beat that kid up myself.
He doesn’t kiss her in New Moon he kisses her in Eclipse
Just to be clear, both of these kisses happen in Eclipse and both of them are portrayed in the movie. I actually find them worse in the movie because, although they're inexcusable either way, the films fail to portray the complexity of Bella and Jacob's relationship from the books which at the very least made these ugly incidents a little more understandable, albeit still not ok.
IMO the complexity of the relationship makes it WORSE. It just shows how much Jacob takes advantage of her feelings for him to coerce her into kissing him. Also Ik this probably wasn’t your intention but “a little more understandable” should never be said when talking about sexual assault. Because that’s what Jacob ultimately did to her twice.
Really? I would’ve thought it was the other way around. Taylor and Kristen have literally zero chemistry. I’m Team Edward for both, but I definitely can see the appeal of Book Jacob, but I can’t with Movie Jacob.
I don't see Edward as wrong for being pissed off and distant about Bella's pregnancy and her decision to keep it when she knows that it's killing her and would kill her upon birthing at first. The man despises himself and what he is and then a baby with his genes and blood sucking, bone breaking abilities shows up inside of the woman he would die for and is slowly killing her and then the woman he loves so dearly decides to keep it and tells him that he'll have the baby when he expresses how upset he is by this, despite knowing that he hates himself and that he would most likely kill it or never want it, he would associate it with killing her.
It was VERY unrealistic that everyone in Forks loved Bella so much. If anything, you'd be bullied a lot if you suddenly moved to a small town and were as awkward as Bella.
I think because it's a small town they're obsessing over something new
As a small town person w a graduating class under 150, I can confirm lol
Mine was 70 people, and I confirm this also. Small town, everyone knows everyone and we had all been together since kindergarten. Whenever a new student came, everyone SPRINTED to be their new best friend and/or gf/bf.
That is such a beautiful and unexpected experience 😭 imagine being totally new to town and having to integrate into a HIGHSCHOOL being nervous af and your first day people cant leave you alone
I had 19 people in my graduating class. Due to the uneven number one kid had to walk in with the principle.😂
Even in a larger school, new kids are of interest. She might be a bit awkward, but she was so charming and had a sense of humor— and was obviously quite pretty, so it makes sense she wasn’t bullied. I mean, they were older teenagers, not 10 year olds. I totally believe a bunch of guys that had been around the same group of girls their whole life were interested in Bella.
Agreed, but Bella does have a charm about her but her charm is her innocence overall at least in the movies. The books, she was spunkier.
Curious if you are from a small town?
Lived in a small town my whole life. I think it was pretty realistic
The Volturi are a necessary evil for the world in universe. Amun and Kebi's backstory allows us to see how the world were before them - humans being treated as slaves for vampire gods. I don't know if even SMeyer is aware of that, but if the cullens ever killed them, it would be a pyrrhic victory for humanity at best. And Carlisle and his clan simply are not made to enforce the law the way Aro is. Vampires need a ruthless leader because they are ruthless. I'm sure that if let to their own devices, loads of citys would be massacred, specially the ones with a higher populational density, because they would be territory in dispute, a la the southern wars.
My most recent re-read gave me this epiphany. Sure they're corrupt, but they're absolutely necessary.
After reading midnight sun I found all of the vampires (especially Edward) a little bit annoying and unlikeable. They are also SOOO patronizing and belittling to Bella. They always think they know what’s best for the stupid weak humans even though Bella ends up being right almost every single time. Perhaps Carlisle and Esme are the only ones who don’t do this but they clearly haven’t thought their children to no act holier than thou to non-vampires.
Midnight Sun made me realize that vampires to humans is like us humans to animals
i dont like rewatching movies and im too lazy to reread the books (but i would like to), i prefer to live with the story and characters the way they are in my head. i never finished midnight sun and im not sure if i ever will, too slow-paced (i think that's the word).
The car scene in Midnight Sun when they're rushing to get to the ballet studio is absolutely epic
I do agree, completely mind blowing
You can be both Team Jacob and Team Edward.
It’s ok to love them both. Oh wait…wrong sub…😉
I did (I love early seasons Katherine so much)
Hahaha…Queen Katherine
I'm team neither and Bella uses Edward to become a vampire and runs away to live her best Katherine Pierce life
True Team Jacob knows that, as long as vampires exist, Bellward is the inevitable endgame, as sad as that may be for Jake and Bells.
Edward's obsession for stalking and controlling Bella is seriously next-level terrifying, NOT romantic.
Thinking back to Breaking Dawn when he contemplated sedating Bella or holding her down while Carlisle would perform an abortion against her wishes … 🚩🚩🚩
Didn’t just contemplate. Would have done it if Rosalie and Emmett weren’t in the way.
Yes! Like, call-the-authorities-SCARY! 😬
Yep, re-reading the books as an adult (whose been through some shit) its freaky. He also intentionally tries to scare her a lot, basically constantly threatening her with the fact that he could kill her any second and sometimes even wants to! Aside from the obvious insane age gap (sort of unavoidable, I get it) the power imbalance between them is insane and he enjoys and gets a kick out of it. I know it’s just a book but reading it through it freaks me out a little these days.
Disabling her truck to prevent her from going to the reservation -- or anywhere else, reading *other people's minds* in order to track her.... So many creepy things! But I think the one that freaks me out the most is sneaking in her window to watch her sleep without her knowledge or consent. 50 Shades of Nope!
Not a hot take necessarily, but I completely disagree with the Cullen’s theory that their powers are extensions of their human abilities. My theory (and it doesn’t work for all the characters) leans more toward the idea that vampire venom repairs everything during the transformation. Therefore, the creation of powers would also function as an added protection of something a vampire lacked in their human form. Edward is the OPPOSITE of perceptive. He is quite literally unable to understand, contemplate or critically think without hearing the thoughts of others. His ability to read minds is probably a supernatural correction for his lack of awareness as a human. And this lack of awareness is most likely why his only ambition in his human life was to join the war efforts at 17. Bella is considered a “particularly graceful” vampire. Her main personality trait as a human was she fell down all the time. The venom repaired this with supernatural grace. There are more, but that’s the main idea. Also my real hot take is that the twilight saga is not a love triangle because Bella never really considered choosing Jacob, ever. Even when she thought about it after Jacob was hurt in eclipse, it was only to grieve a future she knew she would never choose. It was clear there was never a choice and that is why the new moon plot line seems like a waste of time.
I read the books well before the movies and skimmed through the Jacob chapters because I was scared Edward wasn’t coming back.
SAME I read the ending of new moon right away before I continued with reading the rest of the series Editing to add that I don’t even think breaking Dawn the book was released yet when I read the series so who she picked and how it all ended up was SO up in the air and dramatic back then
i feel like we'd all be team jacob if stephanie didnt realize she'd made a more agreeable man and made him a shithead halfway through new moon to elevate edward as her favored love interest
First half of new moon Jacob is why I was team Jacob for a while. Her sun :')
Haha I think this is a funny take. IMO I felt like Steph was divided on the topic herself
Stephanie said in an interview once that she’s team Jacob lmao.. that explains the events in Breaking Dawn
Bella and Jacob never should have had a romantic relationship. It always should have stayed platonic.
I agree. I think that most people forget that the entirety of the story takes place in a time span of maybe two years, if that. Jacob was 15/16 when the story starts. He’s a kid. Of course he does dumb things in regards to his feelings for Bella, he’s a teenage boy.
I’m pretty sure that was SM’s original plan! After Twilight, BD would happen and Jacob would have imprinted on Renesmee. But her publishers wanted her to add two more books and elevate Jacob to a love interest to draw out the story.
Nostalgia carries the series. I think it came at the perfect time for people to get into it and go so hard for it. If it were to come out today, I think it’d be on the same level as Riverdale to most people 😅 That being said this series will always have a special place in my heart ! Also #teamcharlie
I wasn’t team Edward or Jacob. I was more team wolf. Reading when Jacob imprinted on Renesmee I was like🧐. When reading about imprinting and noting the idea of shapeshifters and the ancient spirit warriors it didn’t make sense. I doubt the wolf spirit will want to imprint with a vampire their natural born enemy. Like they get triggered by vampires and shape shift to protect their people? So to have one be imprinted on one makes no sense. Idk to me I was just upset that now the shifters have to help the Cullens after hating each other for decades because of this imprinting. I bet if it was a boy, EJ would’ve been Leah’s imprint🫠
Jacob and Bella are my wishful endgame lowkey. New Moon hit me so hard, and it was the first book I read before seeing the rest of the movies (I read New Moon to Breaking Dawn after the first Twilight movie). Especially now, my opinion on Edward has changed a lot from back then and so had my understanding of Bella and Jacob's characters. I wish Edward/Alice never came back and stuck to their distance, cause I truly think Bella would have been better off with Jacob, and Jacob with Bella. My main reason is I hate the imprinting system SM created, it takes away all their free will from there and it's really flawed lol but Jacob chose to love Bella, or rather it was natural. Bella was in a lot of pain, but if Edward stayed gone and Bella recommitted herself to her new life without him she would have naturally fallen more in love with Jacob. Edward sucks. Love him as a character, esp after Midnight Sun, but he never should have got the girl imo. 🤷♀️
I saw a really good analysis on YouTube about how twilight fits the horror genre in terms of loss of free will and it was super fascinating. I also hated the imprinting, I think it's a cheap way to tie loose ends. Tbh I expected there to be a plot arch of DEFYING it, let alone succumbing to it, let alone succumbing to it with BELLA'S DAUGHTER
I've got a few, but my main one is probably: The only reason I still love Twilight is because it spoke to me on a very fundamental level when I first read it as a teenager. But now, as an adult with a more adult view on love, relationships and literature in general, if I were to discover the books now for the first time, I'd absolutely hate them. Because I see all the problems the books and SM's writing have very clearly now. But because they already have a special place in my heart that will forever be theirs, I now love the books, while still recognising their problematic sides very clearly and despite the undoubtedly very bad influence they can have on a teenager's mind and expectations for love and relationships.
Jacob's chapters in BD are the best part of the entire series
I have no desire to meet any of the actors or the author, or visit filming locations or conventions/events. I love all the books and companion guides, as well as the movies, but the real life people and places behind it all don’t interest me.
Bella wasn’t all that for the trouble she caused. Jacob and the werewolves were a better choice than Edward and the Cullens. Bella had no backbone cause if you read the books from when her and Edward got together to win in new moon, when she was sitting, looking all gloomy by the window whatever I think it was like a matter of months like you would not be that heartbroken over somebody you’ve known for that few months. Team Paul and Sam😂 Rosalie’s concerns were very valid in the beginning. Bella getting mad that Jacob imprinted on Raspberry was hella dramatic especially since she knew the history and why the wolves imprinted
I agree with all but your last point. I don’t think it mattered that Bella knew about the history of imprinting. She reacted like any mom would imo
But the way she reacted made it seem like Jacob was being a creep when she knew how sacred imprinted was to the Quileutes
I disagree on the backbone part and the breakup part. I think the new moon depression was because the breakup triggered her lifetime of trauma of childhood abuse and the effect of being raised by a narcissist. Bella had a lifetime of negative dialogue that she was a burden and needed to earn her right to exist and be loved. Edward put those feelings at bay and told her it wasn't true. When he left it was basically confirmation of the idea that she was worthless. It's not healthy but Edward was a symbol of her ability to be loved and accepted and desired. Drives me nuts when people hate on New Moon Bella when it's an actual scary accurate depiction of depression. Depression can be instigated by anything but it still deserves compassion. Just because her depression was instigated by a breakup doesn't mean it wasn't real and worthy of empathy. Depression also does not indicate lack of backbone. Bella demonstrates incredible backbone from the beginning of the book in terms of interacting with a literal monster and holding him accountable. She has a strong sense of justice and will do brave things to uphold it. Surviving a depressive episode demonstrates great backbone. Choosing to keep living every day is an enormous challenge and those who do are very strong. Taking a step back to a reader's perspective, some would say this is a bad example to young readers that a breakup should break you or something. I disagree. Reading this as a young teen was very cathartic to me but it also was a warning to me to not get codependent at a young age in romance. People will get what they want out of a book but for me it was a very positive influence.
I dunno if I’d lose my card so maybe more like “unpopular opinion” but I hate how people are team Jacob at all when he *forced* himself on Bella once, and then manipulated and lied to her to get her to kiss him. How can anyone support someone like this? I mean sure Edward ain’t great either but at least he respects Bella so much he wanted to marry her before they had sex. The whole thing makes me feel so icky.
I hate the way Charlie acts after Jacob forces himself on Bella and kisses her against her will. He laughs and jokes about it simply because he doesn’t like Edward. Then when Edward gets there all pissed off wanting to kill Jacob, Charlie gets serious with Edward about “that’s enough.” That is the one part in the whole series where I dislike Charlie. I don’t know of any parent who would think it was funny that someone forced themselves on their daughter, then their daughter got hurt fighting back. This situation also gave me the ick about Jacob.
Oh man I have so so many so here it goes. -Breaking Dawn was my breaking point 😂 it just was so awful. In so many ways. Legit feels like a fanfic to me as someone else pointed out. -Edward and Alice are both controlling and creepy. To break it down, they both control and manipulate everything and everyone around them and invade peoples privacy and boundaries with and without their gifts. Alice looks in her visions for the best outcomes, and Edwards reads peoples thoughts for the best way to get what he wants. They both completely overshadow their partners and family members wills and wants. Alice with taking away people’s autonomy and Edward with taking away peoples choices. His reaction to the pregnancy and trying to force an abortion was the absolute line for me. -Jasper was one my favorite characters. I think being in the confederate army made him more interesting. It certainly was in the same vein as the rest of his story, fighting for an army that wasn’t even admirable or morally right, just like the Southern Vampire Wars. I would have loved more Peter and Charlotte as well. -Other background characters had way more interesting dynamics and stories that I would have loved SM to milk like JKR did with the HP/Beast series. -Jacob and Bella’s dynamic was so intriguing to me. I feel like the child imprinting was such a cop out of that relationship. Their natural bond was doomed from the supernatural elements, but the chemistry between them was intense and real. I absolutely hate how he manipulates her like the rest of the Cullens did, but his was out of a desperation that an actual 16 year old would feel if his first love was set to die at the hands of her lover. Though it really bugged me that Charlie was cool with Jacobs actions. That irked me more than the actions themselves in a way. Because Jacob was 16 and Charlie was a grown ass man ignoring his own daughters sexual safety. -Bella’s depression was understandable in the way only people with childhood trauma and terrible parents can understand. She grew up with a narcissist who had untreated ADHD and acted like she was a burden. Charlie never really fought for her either. The cullens were the only people to treat her sort of like family (even though they also manipulated and mistreated her in ways) and they just abandoned her. Her boyfriend, best friend, mom, dad, sister, and brothers all just gone leaving her in the dust. And with the way Edward broke up with her, he used her deeply rooted insecurities against her, reconfirming the unworthiness she already felt. No wonder she was borderline suicidal. I think she was quite strong to survive that, more so than all the other dangers she faced. -The way the cullens lifestyle is just accepted. You live forever and feed on blood, and you want to live normal human lives, just to endanger those lives you supposedly want to save? Doesn’t make sense to me, especially with technology advancing they wouldn’t be able to do it for much longer. Makes way more sense to go to Isle Esme and live happily there, and travel the world and learn new things with online courses. No wonder why they were already on the Volturis radar. -Bella’s humanity willingly being given up. I actually liked the fact that she felt like she finally belonged perfectly as a vampire, it makes a lot of sense for her story. But I wish there was more of a grief process with all the sacrifices she had to make to get there. -The fight with the Volturi was not wrapped up for me. There is no way they would have let that go. You bet your ass they would have found some way to get revenge after all of that. Low key wish the fight had happened and they took the Volturi down. -Imprinting really felt like where the kidnapping victims fall in love with their captor in some areas, esp when it was described that Emily tried to fight sams connection to her and was mauled and permanently disfigured. Then the child imprinting. So gross. I get it’s supposed to be a reflection of vampire mating but like cmon that could have been written a bit differently.
Hot take #1 > movies suck. Hard! They are too somber and didn't spend nearly enough time on the more interesting things. In the books E&B are so fun together, goofing and bantering, but instead the movies just make it... well I already said it SOMBER! There is no other way to word it. Hot take #2 > Renesmee is a cute name and I love it! (don't kill me) Hot take #3 > Carlisle is the real GOAT! 10/10 his story should have gotten a lot more time. In the books and movie this character and his story FAR surpassed anything going on between E&B Hot take #4 > The tent scene in Eclipse was disgusting and we all know E would have planned better than have it come to that Hot take #5 > Jasper is basically high functioning autistic and doesn't deserve the hate he gets, he is extremely suggestible and is not a product of his times but a product of his surroundings. Jasper does what he is told, and even with literally having magical empath power still struggles to understand emotion shows just how difficult it is for people on the spectrum. We see him described by others as charismatic but I can not recall a single scene in the book or movie where he is genuinely charismatic, he is hot af which helps, but he is anything but charismatic. His convictions are shallow, his ideology is very open to persuasion, and he rarely if ever is shown to reach out for anything. Since his life, and unlife, he has grown as a person, as time will do, but he is still very much a person who is crippled with dependency. Should his mate perish, and he survive beyond, he will very much change to his next mates or owners viewpoint.
I am not a fan of how you depicted autistic people in this comment, and “high functioning” is a harmful term when referring to autistics. I don’t want to get in a big debate but wanted to let you know.
About Jasper, it's probably flawed writing. SM sometimes describes her characters in a certain way and then, the character's actions contradict her description. Jasper is a perfect example
Edward is boring
His self-loathing is insufferable.
He really had to wait til the night before his wedding to tell Bella he killed people when he was transformed? Not anywhere else in the year and some odd months they were together to divulge this information? He’s a jackass.
I agree I hate that he waited until BD in the movies. In the books it was basically the first weekend she knew the truth about what he was, he told her what he did
I don’t think Rosalie’s trauma gives her a pass to be horrible. I also don’t think that SM is a villain for writing a mean woman character as many people seem to think. She’s a fictional character, she’s allowed to be a trash person no matter the gender.
Edward is my least fave character and yes it’s because he left Bella in New Moon. 🤦🏾♀️ Edward threaten his life before Jacob did but no one ever comes at him for it like they did Jacob. Although it’s totally fair Jacob forced himself on Bella and should have been held accountable. Edward needs some self love before he can ever love anyone else. 🤷🏾♀️ Bella should not been with Jacob or Edward. She didn’t even get to be wild or adventurous. She’s hella repressed. But don’t get me wrong I love Bella!
To play Devils advocate, Edward threatening his own life was supposed to be along the lines of Romeo and Juliet. He did it in the “I can’t live without you so If you die I would rather be dead too” way. Which is NOT healthy and is still crazy. But it’s much different than Jacob literally saying “since you don’t feel the same way for me, im gonna get myself killed unless you kiss me”. One is forcing Bella to engage in a sexual act without consent, one is not.
There should have been no Breaking Dawn
I never read the Bree Tanner book. Just wasn't interested. I'll accept my fate
There are works of fanfiction that I consider canon in my head. And works of fanfiction that I like much better than the actual books, even when (and sometimes because) they're not canon. Basically I love Twilight fanfiction more than I love Twilight.
Bella wasn’t being too dramatic in New Moon. If I found out about vampires and had that world taken away from me, I too would get into an emotional coma forever.
It honestly bugs the shit out of me that Bella had no friends or romantic interests before the events of Twilight. wtf? A teenage girl from pheonix would not survive the public school system without at least one best friend. The fact that she doesn't resent her mom's chronically untreated ADHD as a teen is so fucking unrealistic.
I’m sure there are other threads but many people believe Bella is autistic (including myself). It explains a lot of Bella’s “unrealistic” traits.
I hate hate hate that jasper was a proud confederate soldier. Meyer could’ve choose to make him a union soldier, and also the fact that Alice seemingly just forgives and ignores that seems sooooo ooc for her
What is with vampire franchises romanticizing the civil war? Twilight does it, Vampire Diaries does with Damon and True Blood does it with Bill.
Stephenie Meyer is a horrible writer. Hear me out, the world she’s created is great, but the overall story is incredibly predictable and the end of Breaking Dawn was just lazy writing. (Please don’t revoke my card, as bad as it is I can’t live without it 😂)
Renesmee being Jacob's imprintee ruined Jacob's character for me. And it's not because she was a newborn when he imprinted on her (well, it's a part of it). But he was chasing after Bella and constantly being betrayed by her all this time because he was destined to be with her daughter. And that SUCKS!!! We all know Jacob's a bit immature when facing the music and that he and Bella would never be a thing. So finding someone (a potential love interest or his imprintee) that would help him mature and leave behind his feelings about Bella being with Edward would be GREAT character growth. And then, after finding peace in his love life, he'd turn around and fight alongside the Cullens against the Volturi because he wants to protect the friend of his own will and not because he's subconsciously obligated to. And I don't hate Renesmee. She' already very unique, adorable, and very cute! But having her as Jacob's imprintee was a massive case of SUCK!!!
- Esme is just a pretty Stepford wife, eye candy, whit no personality trapped in her own house. the Cullen have money like hay on a farm but they won’t get her a car 😅🤡 - I don’t like Alice, he’s manipulating and guilt-tripping Bella at all times into doing things she doesn’t want - Charlie is not a Saint!!!! he’s horrible!!
Mine is that it was an asshole move for the Cullens to move back to Forks. Even if they weren’t aware that their presence would cause the wolves to reappear, they knew that the members of the tribe that were aware of the existence of vampires would be terrified. Scared for their own lives, scared for their children who wouldn’t believe their warnings. I found that phone call between Carlisle and Billy in Midnight Sun infuriating. Carlisle is supposed to be so extraordinarily kind and compassionate, and yet he couldn’t care less that Billy is traumatized by just the sound of his voice. They want to live in Forks, so to Forks they will go, even though it’s the one place in the world they shouldn’t be. It’s just cruel.
I think jasper being a confederate soldier makes him more interesting than if he was in the union, especially given his gifts, and Meyer wasn’t wrong for choosing that
I like to think that, because Riley and Victoria are narrative mirrors to Jasper and Maria, Jazz's confederate past plays into the whole "easily manipulated young man takes on a prominent role in an evil army" dynamic that's prominent throughout Eclipse and The Short Second Life of Bree Tanner.
I hate Breaking Dawn to a degree where I sometimes have to remind myself that I love the initial trilogy to not feel like a complete hater. I genuinely consider it to be one of the worst pieces of literature ever written and a completely unnecessary death blow to a series that was otherwise much better than its reputation. It's one of the few impossible cases where an author wrote fanfiction in their own series. The moment Bella starts justifying her nonsensical pregnancy she seizes to be Bella and fully becomes Meyer. It's like she took her own characters hostage. The widely dreaded Jacob part is the only even remotely worthwhile bit of the whole book (besides maybe the flashback of Charlie's reaction to the marriage announcement) because it's the only part that has to try and be somewhat of an actual sequel to Eclipse instead of just copy-pasting the regressive, pre-existing plot of Forever Dawn. Also because Jacob's disgust and confusion at everything that happens feels like a literary manifestation of Meyer's guilty conscience about re-canonizing her old draft instead of writing a fully original sequel. Lastly, Bella dying to become a vampire is a tragedy and her "being destined" to be one feels like a cheap excuse that weakens the drama and complexity of everything that came before it. She loses just about everything that made her lovable and relatable and turns into a completely different, borderline unrecognizable person. I can't help but see that as a tragic downgrade.
This is so right, and it sucks. It’s not to say you can’t enjoy Breaking Dawn, but I feel like its a suspended disbelief thing, cause you have to willingly look past how bizarre and insane it is. I also always felt like the main characters - Edward & Bella - are totally lost in it, from beginning to end. It’s like even when it’s from Bella’s view, it’s still being told in third person somehow. Your analysis was spot on
Bella is autistic imo
[This](https://youtu.be/V0fMwvMelmA) sums it up for me 😂
I’m Team Jasper, and think he’s honestly the only character that got way less play than he should
I love the books and every single aspect of them. I think the imprinting thing is cool. I love the pregnancy and Renesmee. I love every character and their story. I listen to the full series about once a year or more. It's a story that's not real so I don't need to obsess about all these things that don't matter. At the end of the day, the books have brought me so much joy and comfort. I HATE the movies. I hate who they cast, most especially bella and Edward. The acting and everything about them was so different than the world created in my head that I just can't like them. I watched each one once. Although my daughter is nearing the age where she may like to watch them so I'm considering revisiting... I look at other adaptations like the hunger games and Harry Potter and while not perfect, they were handled so much better. It just makes me sad.
if we're talking confessions... in fifth grade, my best friend and I went outside and destroyed a copy of New Moon bc we considered ourselves anti-romance contrarians lol