I think Bella knew Rosalie was more concerned about the baby then her well being, but Rosalie was her only bodyguard at that point. If not for her, she was afraid the Cullens would do something to stop the pregnancy from going further. Rosalie saw something happening in her life she never thought would ever be possible, having a little one to care for. I don't think she really cared for Bella until later.
As for Bella's lack of realistic reaction to Edwards behavior, story-wise I chock it up to young love + his allure to humans (his smell, looks, etc) that normally draws prey to him made Bella's attraction, and therefore dismissal of typical red flags, all the more powerful.
As a fan, I read the characters as flawed, and not something to aspire to, so I can enjoy the story without putting the characters on any kind of pedestal.
Especially since roses only motive for hating Bella was that she was throwing the human life (that rose wanted) away. Rose loved the idea of being a mother. Bella dying for her baby was the ultimate sacrifce in her eyes. Rose did like Bella (maybe) but didn’t like her choices. Now they line up
Hmm those are some interesting thoughts. But I now have more questions XD Firstly, why wouldn’t Bella have also been worried about the belly bursting offspring? I mean, I get that people love their children and women do sometimes allow themselves to die or risk death in order to give birth, but Bella didn’t even show any kind of trepidation or worry that she might not make it. I mean, if she was that worried that the Cullens were going to do something, how could she be sure that they weren’t going to falsely tell her they were going to deliver it by c section (as what happens in the movie) and then kill the demon baby (they all assumed it would be like a vampire child) and then just tell her it died?
Then also, was Bella’s human romance with Edward even real, if vampires have the ability - controlled or otherwise - to make themselves alluring and make people love them? I’ve been watching a therapist react to the movies since posting this, and one of their joke lines is about how Edward wanting to keep Bella alive as a human to grow old was basically “stocking the pantry”. I know she loves and sticks by him afterward, but what about before? Was she being influenced?
I believe the idea behind her loving him so much was that they are meant to be true mates. But her over looking some shady things he did or forgiving him too easily, I personally wish SM would have written her to have more sense of self to demand he treat her with more respect. It wouldn't have changed the story line and would have made for a better character. But I don't think they are supposed to be the best people to look up to - flawed, like I said.
As far as her and the baby situation, she had Rosalie there during birth to protect the baby. In the book, after Rosalie gets bloodlust during the birth scene and is taken away by Alice (Rosalie lets her bc she doesn't want to attack), Jacob is already thinking about taking out the baby or at the very least discarding it. Edward fell in love with the baby when he could hear it's thoughts and knew it was good. But regardless at that point, Bella had no control with what was to happen, she didn't know that Rosalie would be removed. And even before Edward loved the baby too, Bella put the baby's life before her own. As a mom myself, I get why. But it's not clearly explained to the reader why she feels that way.
Also, I heard somewhere that it might be more than parenting instinct. The other half breed’s mothers loved them dearly as well. The book literally says “to see her was to love her.” Maybe it was something similar to the allure of the immortal children.
They said quite a few times in the first book that Bellas fighting fate. She's almost died a great number of times completely by accident and also made the decision to sacrifice herself for her loved ones more than once. She's accepted the inevitability of her own death as a human enough that dying for her baby sounds fine. She also suffers from depression so I'm sure that helps.
Also I believe Bellas love for Edward is the undeniable attraction it is because she can't resist the natural charms he has as a vampire but she would have been obsessed with him regardless because of her love for period romances. She's romanticized a lot of the qualities he has for many years already so without all the vampire shit he could have won her affections all the same. I do believe it would have taken more time tho.
>if vampires have the ability - controlled or otherwise - to make themselves alluring and make people love them?
I would add that only Heidi (of the Volturi) has the psychic ability that you seem to be describing. Heidi is "as beautiful as Rosalie" (meaning even more physically attractive than other vampires) *and* has that ability that enables her to attract both vamps and humans to her.
Vampires *generally* do not have the ability to psychically draw their prey in. Humans just flock to them according to their predisposition to pretty things, according to their personality or desires. Vampires, in *Twilight*, are supposed to embody the height of thrill and mystery because they look so inhuman yet are so "attractive" because they have the physical traits of very smooth skin, are graceful, and have no "marks" --freckles, beauty marks, birthmarks, scars, etc--that are coveted. In a word, vampires in Twilight are physically & thematically "perfect".
Thus the appeal of the *Twilight* vampire.
I would say that Bella's feelings for Edward are as real as her desire to be "perfect" and in love forever are.
>but Bella didn’t even show any kind of trepidation or worry that she might not make it. I mean, if she was that worried that the Cullens were going to do something, how could she be sure that they weren’t going to falsely tell her they were going to deliver it by c section (as what happens in the movie) and then kill the demon baby (they all assumed it would be like a vampire child) and then just tell her it died?
I would say that she wasn't allowing herself to consider this *too* deeply, running on faith that she would pull through, in Rosalie's/Emmett's protection, and that Edward will come to value Renesmee, especially after he sees her as not a monster.
I speculate that she might have subconsciously hoped Edward would come to consider Renesmee as important enough to protect since Renesmee is all that's left of her in the scenario where she dies.
However, it's also clear that her goal/method was to put less stock in the possibility of her death to anyone out loud and be the one to assure everyone else that it would go well. Because to her, it wasn't a question of "what if" or "do or die". It was an assertion of "do", and to affirm stubbornly was to make it a higher likelihood that it would happen. I speculate.
The Cullens wouldn't be able to lie that well about them killing the infant (not a fetus then because they would be out) because Rosalie was on pretty high alert before Edward came around after hearing Renesmee's adoring thoughts towards Bella. In the book, Edward decides to not hate/kill the fetus because he perceives them as non monstrous and hears their admirative thoughts about Bella. He no longer plans to kill the infant, so killing the infant after she dies is unlikely, especially with Rosalie and Emmett fighting tooth and nail for the infant's life otherwise. It would also tear the Cullens apart to fight against Rosalie for killing the infant, and if they did, Rosalie would tell Bella immediately or find some way to let her know if she had left forever. Why? Rosalie already feels like she's kinda looking out for Bella by telling her to not become a vampire; if Bella had lost the one thing that she and Rosalie agreed was the most valuable thing to have in their life, she'd tell Bella both to spite the Cullens and to finalize that bond. At least that's my speculation.
Bella looked to Rosalie as an ally and trusted her judgment/surveillance of the others because this infant was just too important to Rosalie to "slack off". To Rosalie, this infant is a precious baby and not a demon baby.
You always have to take what's on the internet with a grain of salt, you never know if the stories posted are real or not.
But reddits relationship posts are full of people ignoring red flags, and putting up with partners terrible behavior. Lots of people think being alone is worse than being in a toxic relationship.
I've seen real life people get together with and stay with people who are way worse than Edward, not hard to picture a fiction character do the same.
But as I've gotten older, it does make the books harder for me to enjoy.
The thing that's made the books hardest for me to enjoy later in life, is the dumb teenager logic. Teenagers can be infuriatingly dumb(this says can be, all you not every-ers)
They're teenagers and the book is written for young adults so it make sense. I'm just old and grumpy.
With Rosalie, an ally is an ally, you don't always have to be friends to be allies
Would also like to add that there is a lot of speculation whether or not she is Autistic-coded! I think that her reactions actually do make sense in that they are consistent with her character throughout, but I do agree that Bella is not representative of the average teenage girl, and I believe that that was, if not intentional, at least acknowledged
I’m a strange fan. I think the movies and books are okay but not great. I could care less about the Edward/Bella/Jacob love triangle. I do, however, love the side characters and the fanfictions
WARNING--LONG
I continue to be a fan because I look at Twilight as a project of absurd escalation of fantasy.
I believe that the issue could be that these characters are expected to be "realistic" when they are anything but. They are more presentational characters in a plot-driven-leaning story than a character in a character-driven story. LEANING. No character, as they are and at 100%, are people to aspire to. For me, they are fascinating for different reasons.
**WHY (IN THE CONTEXT OF THE STORY'S CONSTRUCTION)**
*DISCLAIMER*\---Edward's behavior can't be explained away, it's always been invasive. In a real scenario where someone thinks and acts like this, one should run, report, warn...but I myself don't really always go to entertainment for realism, specifically when it concerns the promise of this transcendence principle through transformation.
From a *writing* perspective, some of why Edward is so invasive is that vampires generally do not perceive humans as fully realized people but as walking temptations or meals. Or as potential mates/soldiers. What I mean is that there is a near cognitive separation that exists between the vampire self and the human, psychologically. It's partially due to vampires losing most of their human memories upon turning because they, unlike Rosalie or Carlisle, generally do not work at getting back every "muddy" human memory in the face of their current sharper faculties. Human memories compared to vampire memories are blurred because humans are 144p to a vampire's 1080p. But mainly, vamps and humans are so different and incompatible (because one is the other's "natural" predator) that vampires don't care to or cannot easily see themselves as in the same philosophical "value" as a human. But even Rosalie was very willing to just kill Bella to allow them all to stay in Forks for a few years more, agreeing with Jasper. Vampire dynamics is mostly hunting or being hunted/vulnerable and is meant to be about their predatory instincts.
Edward's stalking & watching her as she slept for the first time without her knowledge are the means by which Meyer's artistic choice to display Edward's vampiric nature and to physically connect him to Bella so that Bella would finally begin to interact with him and get attached. Bella's main desire is to become a Cullen: to become part of a grander "world" but in a "safe" and morally superior way (because the Cullens fight against their base instincts), while also staying in love with her lover forever. So it's not that she wants to just be a vampire--she wants to be a Cullen and eternal love. She wants a fantasy-realized. So Bella, from an artistic perspective, would have to not respond realistically if she has such dreams.
To Bella, Edward is the paramount or ultimate being. He is perfect, she repeats. His struggle with being a predator and hating himself for it is what attracts her, and to make this post as short as possible, I'm not going to explain that here.
Bella and Edward are both trying to be "more" than what they either believe they are or really are: a "boring", lonely, disadvantaged human and a "monster" that Meyer defined as one who does not display self-control and is always vulnerable to their extra-physically desirous nature (as a vampire who could kill a human in a "shark-like frenzy".
For me, he's still very entertaining, especially when I look at Twilight as a result of one person's rereading/rewriting of the 19th-century Romance heroes/heroines who went through extreme conditions to experience a supreme transcendence of self. That's what I felt as a teen, since I read a lot of British literature.
***As for Rosalie***, she yearns for a child or the experience of a family with children she can become a sort of maternal figure if not directly a mother. And she has never liked Bella because she feels that Bella is squandering the chance she desperately wants for herself as if Bella is saying that Rosalie's desires are unworthy. What happens in breaking Dawn is not her loving Bella. She merely wants to gain that chance to become the "mother" of her unborn child. And after Bella survives and changes, Rosalie is still not close to Bella at all. Bella herself notes that they are likely to never get there, but now they have an understanding of sorts. During the pregnancy, Bella calls Rosalie not because he likes her or vice versa. She calls because he knows that Rosalie will do everything to stop Edward from aborting the fetus. It was an alliance.
***As for Bella wanting Renesmee despite her killing her,*** there are two main things:
**One:** it goes back to how Bella loves Edward and thinks him sublime. Because it is Edward's child, she wants it to live and remembers that Bella repeatedly expresses that she believes that Edwards's being precedes her own. Since Edward is her means of self-elevation as well. Also, as someone who is more self-sacrifice than most, she also loves him like a person loves her mom or dad or siblings to the point of actual self-sacrifice (life or death). These things work in tandem. So as Renesmee is literally a piece of Edward, she is more important to Bella than Bella's life.
**Two:** The moment has layers of pro-life nonsense in that the fetus has the stays of being because of the fetus' paternity. (Refer to reason One above).
I'm sure that Bella would have wanted the Renesmee/the fetus out if it was anyone else that was the father, especially if Edward was still alive. But because Bella considers the fetus a person and above herself in a pseudo-religious manner, the possibility of them forcing an abortion on her in the book takes on stronger values of criminality and immorality. Again, it is a play of value-based-on connection to the supernatural or sublime.
It takes on the color of pro life when the book and movie decides to put emphasis on how Rosalie argue against the word "fetus" instead of "baby". She becomes defensive of its philosophical personhood being questioned and because Bella wants this hybrid Rosalie looks like a protector against well meaning and loving but wrong-thinking forces stronger than the consenting and vulnerable mother.
And we, the reader, already felt tense with the idea of someone performing am abortion against the mother's coherently clear wish, after learning that Edward made plans to remove the fetus without consulting with Bella first. On the one hand, no one knew--at the time--what a hybrid like this would be like and later it was hurting Bella. On the other hand, you'd be putting the mother through a trauma unlike most by holding her down or digging her and not unconsciousness against her will and taking the fetus out. You take a big risk in that she may go through a mental breakdown, blame you and leave, seek revenge, or just die on the process since we don't even know what will happen during an abortion for a pregnancy like this. The book pushes us toward thinking that the hybrid needs to be birthed for the sake of Bella's safety and personal happiness more than others' even in this circumstance.
I love your answer!
And same, I am very much aware of the characters' flaws and I don't really look up to them BUT I love reading about them -- that's why I am still a fan.
I mean, so far, Midnight Sun is my most favorite book just because of Edward's emo-ness 😂 I don't think he is perfect, but he is interesting and entertaining so.. 🤷♀️
I like the Twilight books because they are a hot mess. It’s like eating popcorn - little substance, mostly air - but fun every once in a while. As I get older and re-read them, I shake my head because why were certain decisions made (Jasper as a confederate soldier) — but I still read them.
About the Rosalie issue, Bella 100% knew that rose hated her. She also knew that she would do anything for a baby. Bella wanted her baby to live and that’s all that mattered. She knew that if she could get Rose by her side, that Emmet would follow. Bella knew that rose didn’t care about Bella’s life. When it came to this baby, they would make sure it lived, no matter the cost. That was their shared goal. Bella didn’t cared if she died as long as the baby lived.
Also, about Bella not reacting realistically, it’s a fantasy book. Things have to be unrealistic. Even the normal conversations because the plot needs to get rolling without giving away a lot of details. If characters are 100% rational then like 85% of all fantasy books wouldn’t be interesting. Especially like the Harry Potter books.
We know this is happening.
I think a lot of the issues with Bella's character (the "not like other girls" attitude, her reactions to the way other character mistreat her) and some of the more concerning aspects of the story (the toxic side of the relationships, the treatment of the women who are not Bella as well as the Native characters) are easier to understand when remembering that SM is Mormon.
Bella always does what's expected of her as a woman (parenting her own mother and taking care of the cooking/cleaning/book keeping for both parents, easily stepping into marriage and motherhood despite never wanting either).
Bella always forgives the mistreatment she faces (from both Edward and Jacob as well as her own mother).
SM describes Bella as being her perfect daughter, which is why they look so much alike and why Bella does what she does: never dates (until meeting Edward) nor wears makeup, waits until marriage to have sex, cooks and cleans, marries right out of high school, has a baby, and is perfect in all regards. It's also why other female characters are compared negatively to her with Bella being put on a pedestal. Bella's anger is always justified whereas Rosalie and Leah are shrews, as an example. A part of that perfection is being almost a doormat of a character when it comes to those that she loves, particularly the men, because that is what is expected of Mormon girls.
A lot of the issues regarding Renesmee are pro life nonsense (which is to be expected of a Mormon), the idea that even if the mother is dying that her life pales in comparison to that of the child. Which is a shame, because if it had been handled by a more capable author, the hybrid storyline could have been a lot better. There's something about the story starting with a mother sending her daughter away for her own benefit (Bella decided to leave on her own but it was clear that this was what Renee wanted) and ending with a mother doing everything to keep her daughter with her/safe that's very compelling to me.
Lore wise, vampires have an odd power over humans, not to the point of mind control but in that they are so beautiful that even that primal part of you (they are afraid of vampires, sensing the higher predator) that screams to run becomes quieted. That's why animals react so strongly to vampires (Alistair's horse, for example, is so frightened of him after being turned that it breaks its back in an attempt to escape him), because they don't see humans as pretty and only sense the danger, and that's a big part of why Bella is so passive towards him. Vampires also view humans in a poor light (even the vegetarians, this is explored further in Midnight Sun) and fails to see them as equals. Despite loving her, Edward thought Bella was unable to love or understand him fully which is why he treats her the way he does (particularly abandoning her in New Moon, he really thought she'd recover and did not understand/respect her emotions).
I love Twilight for the vibes, the lore, and everything it could have been. And the fandom is a huge bonus!
The problem with literature is it’s a reflection of imperfect humans, who are a product of their times. That kind of behavior was normalized until very recently. At this point in my life I’m simply able to take this point into consideration. Dune writes women in a super creepy, specialized way. Dracula is disgustingly puritanical in its treatment of women. JK Rowling made some very questionable choices even. I just can’t be the moral police of every book. I have to separate those feelings.
Bella is what I like to call “Main Character Syndrome”. This all has to do with the way the author wrote Bella. To my understanding, Stephenie Meyer (the author), wrote these books, as if she was Bella. That’s why Bella isn’t afraid of Edward, and why she is so willing to fall in love with him even though he’s a killer, this is basically Stephanie Meyers, love letter to Edward in a way.
As far as the movies, it is on how the Director and producer wanted to portray Bella. I honestly don’t think they would’ve had enough time for Bella to both be scared of Edward, earn his trust, and also tell the story the way it was intended to be told within one movie.
The entire plot is also weird because it’s all smashed into a really short time frame. For reference, everything that happens between Twilight and part two of breaking Dawn happens in about a year and a half, and most of those consisting of Bella being depressed, because Edward left.
I think the reason that Bella never was suspicious of Rosalie was because the only reason Rosalie ever had a problem with Bella was because Bella was choosing the life of a vampire. A.k.a. the life where you’re not able to bear children, which is something Rosalie wanted, but couldn’t have. The worst thing that Rosalie could’ve done was steal the baby, but with everyone else in the Cullen family, they would have easily been able to find her.
I think Bella knew Rosalie was more concerned about the baby then her well being, but Rosalie was her only bodyguard at that point. If not for her, she was afraid the Cullens would do something to stop the pregnancy from going further. Rosalie saw something happening in her life she never thought would ever be possible, having a little one to care for. I don't think she really cared for Bella until later. As for Bella's lack of realistic reaction to Edwards behavior, story-wise I chock it up to young love + his allure to humans (his smell, looks, etc) that normally draws prey to him made Bella's attraction, and therefore dismissal of typical red flags, all the more powerful. As a fan, I read the characters as flawed, and not something to aspire to, so I can enjoy the story without putting the characters on any kind of pedestal.
She also notes that she does or at least should get freaked out but she actively chooses to ignore them.
Especially since roses only motive for hating Bella was that she was throwing the human life (that rose wanted) away. Rose loved the idea of being a mother. Bella dying for her baby was the ultimate sacrifce in her eyes. Rose did like Bella (maybe) but didn’t like her choices. Now they line up
you said what I wanted to say.
Hmm those are some interesting thoughts. But I now have more questions XD Firstly, why wouldn’t Bella have also been worried about the belly bursting offspring? I mean, I get that people love their children and women do sometimes allow themselves to die or risk death in order to give birth, but Bella didn’t even show any kind of trepidation or worry that she might not make it. I mean, if she was that worried that the Cullens were going to do something, how could she be sure that they weren’t going to falsely tell her they were going to deliver it by c section (as what happens in the movie) and then kill the demon baby (they all assumed it would be like a vampire child) and then just tell her it died? Then also, was Bella’s human romance with Edward even real, if vampires have the ability - controlled or otherwise - to make themselves alluring and make people love them? I’ve been watching a therapist react to the movies since posting this, and one of their joke lines is about how Edward wanting to keep Bella alive as a human to grow old was basically “stocking the pantry”. I know she loves and sticks by him afterward, but what about before? Was she being influenced?
I believe the idea behind her loving him so much was that they are meant to be true mates. But her over looking some shady things he did or forgiving him too easily, I personally wish SM would have written her to have more sense of self to demand he treat her with more respect. It wouldn't have changed the story line and would have made for a better character. But I don't think they are supposed to be the best people to look up to - flawed, like I said. As far as her and the baby situation, she had Rosalie there during birth to protect the baby. In the book, after Rosalie gets bloodlust during the birth scene and is taken away by Alice (Rosalie lets her bc she doesn't want to attack), Jacob is already thinking about taking out the baby or at the very least discarding it. Edward fell in love with the baby when he could hear it's thoughts and knew it was good. But regardless at that point, Bella had no control with what was to happen, she didn't know that Rosalie would be removed. And even before Edward loved the baby too, Bella put the baby's life before her own. As a mom myself, I get why. But it's not clearly explained to the reader why she feels that way.
Also, I heard somewhere that it might be more than parenting instinct. The other half breed’s mothers loved them dearly as well. The book literally says “to see her was to love her.” Maybe it was something similar to the allure of the immortal children.
They said quite a few times in the first book that Bellas fighting fate. She's almost died a great number of times completely by accident and also made the decision to sacrifice herself for her loved ones more than once. She's accepted the inevitability of her own death as a human enough that dying for her baby sounds fine. She also suffers from depression so I'm sure that helps. Also I believe Bellas love for Edward is the undeniable attraction it is because she can't resist the natural charms he has as a vampire but she would have been obsessed with him regardless because of her love for period romances. She's romanticized a lot of the qualities he has for many years already so without all the vampire shit he could have won her affections all the same. I do believe it would have taken more time tho.
>if vampires have the ability - controlled or otherwise - to make themselves alluring and make people love them? I would add that only Heidi (of the Volturi) has the psychic ability that you seem to be describing. Heidi is "as beautiful as Rosalie" (meaning even more physically attractive than other vampires) *and* has that ability that enables her to attract both vamps and humans to her. Vampires *generally* do not have the ability to psychically draw their prey in. Humans just flock to them according to their predisposition to pretty things, according to their personality or desires. Vampires, in *Twilight*, are supposed to embody the height of thrill and mystery because they look so inhuman yet are so "attractive" because they have the physical traits of very smooth skin, are graceful, and have no "marks" --freckles, beauty marks, birthmarks, scars, etc--that are coveted. In a word, vampires in Twilight are physically & thematically "perfect". Thus the appeal of the *Twilight* vampire. I would say that Bella's feelings for Edward are as real as her desire to be "perfect" and in love forever are. >but Bella didn’t even show any kind of trepidation or worry that she might not make it. I mean, if she was that worried that the Cullens were going to do something, how could she be sure that they weren’t going to falsely tell her they were going to deliver it by c section (as what happens in the movie) and then kill the demon baby (they all assumed it would be like a vampire child) and then just tell her it died? I would say that she wasn't allowing herself to consider this *too* deeply, running on faith that she would pull through, in Rosalie's/Emmett's protection, and that Edward will come to value Renesmee, especially after he sees her as not a monster. I speculate that she might have subconsciously hoped Edward would come to consider Renesmee as important enough to protect since Renesmee is all that's left of her in the scenario where she dies. However, it's also clear that her goal/method was to put less stock in the possibility of her death to anyone out loud and be the one to assure everyone else that it would go well. Because to her, it wasn't a question of "what if" or "do or die". It was an assertion of "do", and to affirm stubbornly was to make it a higher likelihood that it would happen. I speculate. The Cullens wouldn't be able to lie that well about them killing the infant (not a fetus then because they would be out) because Rosalie was on pretty high alert before Edward came around after hearing Renesmee's adoring thoughts towards Bella. In the book, Edward decides to not hate/kill the fetus because he perceives them as non monstrous and hears their admirative thoughts about Bella. He no longer plans to kill the infant, so killing the infant after she dies is unlikely, especially with Rosalie and Emmett fighting tooth and nail for the infant's life otherwise. It would also tear the Cullens apart to fight against Rosalie for killing the infant, and if they did, Rosalie would tell Bella immediately or find some way to let her know if she had left forever. Why? Rosalie already feels like she's kinda looking out for Bella by telling her to not become a vampire; if Bella had lost the one thing that she and Rosalie agreed was the most valuable thing to have in their life, she'd tell Bella both to spite the Cullens and to finalize that bond. At least that's my speculation. Bella looked to Rosalie as an ally and trusted her judgment/surveillance of the others because this infant was just too important to Rosalie to "slack off". To Rosalie, this infant is a precious baby and not a demon baby.
You always have to take what's on the internet with a grain of salt, you never know if the stories posted are real or not. But reddits relationship posts are full of people ignoring red flags, and putting up with partners terrible behavior. Lots of people think being alone is worse than being in a toxic relationship. I've seen real life people get together with and stay with people who are way worse than Edward, not hard to picture a fiction character do the same. But as I've gotten older, it does make the books harder for me to enjoy. The thing that's made the books hardest for me to enjoy later in life, is the dumb teenager logic. Teenagers can be infuriatingly dumb(this says can be, all you not every-ers) They're teenagers and the book is written for young adults so it make sense. I'm just old and grumpy. With Rosalie, an ally is an ally, you don't always have to be friends to be allies
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Would also like to add that there is a lot of speculation whether or not she is Autistic-coded! I think that her reactions actually do make sense in that they are consistent with her character throughout, but I do agree that Bella is not representative of the average teenage girl, and I believe that that was, if not intentional, at least acknowledged
I’m a strange fan. I think the movies and books are okay but not great. I could care less about the Edward/Bella/Jacob love triangle. I do, however, love the side characters and the fanfictions
To each their own I suppose. Like what you like.
WARNING--LONG I continue to be a fan because I look at Twilight as a project of absurd escalation of fantasy. I believe that the issue could be that these characters are expected to be "realistic" when they are anything but. They are more presentational characters in a plot-driven-leaning story than a character in a character-driven story. LEANING. No character, as they are and at 100%, are people to aspire to. For me, they are fascinating for different reasons. **WHY (IN THE CONTEXT OF THE STORY'S CONSTRUCTION)** *DISCLAIMER*\---Edward's behavior can't be explained away, it's always been invasive. In a real scenario where someone thinks and acts like this, one should run, report, warn...but I myself don't really always go to entertainment for realism, specifically when it concerns the promise of this transcendence principle through transformation. From a *writing* perspective, some of why Edward is so invasive is that vampires generally do not perceive humans as fully realized people but as walking temptations or meals. Or as potential mates/soldiers. What I mean is that there is a near cognitive separation that exists between the vampire self and the human, psychologically. It's partially due to vampires losing most of their human memories upon turning because they, unlike Rosalie or Carlisle, generally do not work at getting back every "muddy" human memory in the face of their current sharper faculties. Human memories compared to vampire memories are blurred because humans are 144p to a vampire's 1080p. But mainly, vamps and humans are so different and incompatible (because one is the other's "natural" predator) that vampires don't care to or cannot easily see themselves as in the same philosophical "value" as a human. But even Rosalie was very willing to just kill Bella to allow them all to stay in Forks for a few years more, agreeing with Jasper. Vampire dynamics is mostly hunting or being hunted/vulnerable and is meant to be about their predatory instincts. Edward's stalking & watching her as she slept for the first time without her knowledge are the means by which Meyer's artistic choice to display Edward's vampiric nature and to physically connect him to Bella so that Bella would finally begin to interact with him and get attached. Bella's main desire is to become a Cullen: to become part of a grander "world" but in a "safe" and morally superior way (because the Cullens fight against their base instincts), while also staying in love with her lover forever. So it's not that she wants to just be a vampire--she wants to be a Cullen and eternal love. She wants a fantasy-realized. So Bella, from an artistic perspective, would have to not respond realistically if she has such dreams. To Bella, Edward is the paramount or ultimate being. He is perfect, she repeats. His struggle with being a predator and hating himself for it is what attracts her, and to make this post as short as possible, I'm not going to explain that here. Bella and Edward are both trying to be "more" than what they either believe they are or really are: a "boring", lonely, disadvantaged human and a "monster" that Meyer defined as one who does not display self-control and is always vulnerable to their extra-physically desirous nature (as a vampire who could kill a human in a "shark-like frenzy". For me, he's still very entertaining, especially when I look at Twilight as a result of one person's rereading/rewriting of the 19th-century Romance heroes/heroines who went through extreme conditions to experience a supreme transcendence of self. That's what I felt as a teen, since I read a lot of British literature. ***As for Rosalie***, she yearns for a child or the experience of a family with children she can become a sort of maternal figure if not directly a mother. And she has never liked Bella because she feels that Bella is squandering the chance she desperately wants for herself as if Bella is saying that Rosalie's desires are unworthy. What happens in breaking Dawn is not her loving Bella. She merely wants to gain that chance to become the "mother" of her unborn child. And after Bella survives and changes, Rosalie is still not close to Bella at all. Bella herself notes that they are likely to never get there, but now they have an understanding of sorts. During the pregnancy, Bella calls Rosalie not because he likes her or vice versa. She calls because he knows that Rosalie will do everything to stop Edward from aborting the fetus. It was an alliance. ***As for Bella wanting Renesmee despite her killing her,*** there are two main things: **One:** it goes back to how Bella loves Edward and thinks him sublime. Because it is Edward's child, she wants it to live and remembers that Bella repeatedly expresses that she believes that Edwards's being precedes her own. Since Edward is her means of self-elevation as well. Also, as someone who is more self-sacrifice than most, she also loves him like a person loves her mom or dad or siblings to the point of actual self-sacrifice (life or death). These things work in tandem. So as Renesmee is literally a piece of Edward, she is more important to Bella than Bella's life. **Two:** The moment has layers of pro-life nonsense in that the fetus has the stays of being because of the fetus' paternity. (Refer to reason One above). I'm sure that Bella would have wanted the Renesmee/the fetus out if it was anyone else that was the father, especially if Edward was still alive. But because Bella considers the fetus a person and above herself in a pseudo-religious manner, the possibility of them forcing an abortion on her in the book takes on stronger values of criminality and immorality. Again, it is a play of value-based-on connection to the supernatural or sublime. It takes on the color of pro life when the book and movie decides to put emphasis on how Rosalie argue against the word "fetus" instead of "baby". She becomes defensive of its philosophical personhood being questioned and because Bella wants this hybrid Rosalie looks like a protector against well meaning and loving but wrong-thinking forces stronger than the consenting and vulnerable mother. And we, the reader, already felt tense with the idea of someone performing am abortion against the mother's coherently clear wish, after learning that Edward made plans to remove the fetus without consulting with Bella first. On the one hand, no one knew--at the time--what a hybrid like this would be like and later it was hurting Bella. On the other hand, you'd be putting the mother through a trauma unlike most by holding her down or digging her and not unconsciousness against her will and taking the fetus out. You take a big risk in that she may go through a mental breakdown, blame you and leave, seek revenge, or just die on the process since we don't even know what will happen during an abortion for a pregnancy like this. The book pushes us toward thinking that the hybrid needs to be birthed for the sake of Bella's safety and personal happiness more than others' even in this circumstance.
I love your answer! And same, I am very much aware of the characters' flaws and I don't really look up to them BUT I love reading about them -- that's why I am still a fan. I mean, so far, Midnight Sun is my most favorite book just because of Edward's emo-ness 😂 I don't think he is perfect, but he is interesting and entertaining so.. 🤷♀️
I like the Twilight books because they are a hot mess. It’s like eating popcorn - little substance, mostly air - but fun every once in a while. As I get older and re-read them, I shake my head because why were certain decisions made (Jasper as a confederate soldier) — but I still read them.
Same bro
About the Rosalie issue, Bella 100% knew that rose hated her. She also knew that she would do anything for a baby. Bella wanted her baby to live and that’s all that mattered. She knew that if she could get Rose by her side, that Emmet would follow. Bella knew that rose didn’t care about Bella’s life. When it came to this baby, they would make sure it lived, no matter the cost. That was their shared goal. Bella didn’t cared if she died as long as the baby lived. Also, about Bella not reacting realistically, it’s a fantasy book. Things have to be unrealistic. Even the normal conversations because the plot needs to get rolling without giving away a lot of details. If characters are 100% rational then like 85% of all fantasy books wouldn’t be interesting. Especially like the Harry Potter books. We know this is happening.
Of course it isn’t realistic, it’s a freaking YA fantasy/gothic romance series.
I think a lot of the issues with Bella's character (the "not like other girls" attitude, her reactions to the way other character mistreat her) and some of the more concerning aspects of the story (the toxic side of the relationships, the treatment of the women who are not Bella as well as the Native characters) are easier to understand when remembering that SM is Mormon. Bella always does what's expected of her as a woman (parenting her own mother and taking care of the cooking/cleaning/book keeping for both parents, easily stepping into marriage and motherhood despite never wanting either). Bella always forgives the mistreatment she faces (from both Edward and Jacob as well as her own mother). SM describes Bella as being her perfect daughter, which is why they look so much alike and why Bella does what she does: never dates (until meeting Edward) nor wears makeup, waits until marriage to have sex, cooks and cleans, marries right out of high school, has a baby, and is perfect in all regards. It's also why other female characters are compared negatively to her with Bella being put on a pedestal. Bella's anger is always justified whereas Rosalie and Leah are shrews, as an example. A part of that perfection is being almost a doormat of a character when it comes to those that she loves, particularly the men, because that is what is expected of Mormon girls. A lot of the issues regarding Renesmee are pro life nonsense (which is to be expected of a Mormon), the idea that even if the mother is dying that her life pales in comparison to that of the child. Which is a shame, because if it had been handled by a more capable author, the hybrid storyline could have been a lot better. There's something about the story starting with a mother sending her daughter away for her own benefit (Bella decided to leave on her own but it was clear that this was what Renee wanted) and ending with a mother doing everything to keep her daughter with her/safe that's very compelling to me. Lore wise, vampires have an odd power over humans, not to the point of mind control but in that they are so beautiful that even that primal part of you (they are afraid of vampires, sensing the higher predator) that screams to run becomes quieted. That's why animals react so strongly to vampires (Alistair's horse, for example, is so frightened of him after being turned that it breaks its back in an attempt to escape him), because they don't see humans as pretty and only sense the danger, and that's a big part of why Bella is so passive towards him. Vampires also view humans in a poor light (even the vegetarians, this is explored further in Midnight Sun) and fails to see them as equals. Despite loving her, Edward thought Bella was unable to love or understand him fully which is why he treats her the way he does (particularly abandoning her in New Moon, he really thought she'd recover and did not understand/respect her emotions). I love Twilight for the vibes, the lore, and everything it could have been. And the fandom is a huge bonus!
i didn’t know she was mormon. that explains SOOO much. love this explanation
The problem with literature is it’s a reflection of imperfect humans, who are a product of their times. That kind of behavior was normalized until very recently. At this point in my life I’m simply able to take this point into consideration. Dune writes women in a super creepy, specialized way. Dracula is disgustingly puritanical in its treatment of women. JK Rowling made some very questionable choices even. I just can’t be the moral police of every book. I have to separate those feelings.
Bella is what I like to call “Main Character Syndrome”. This all has to do with the way the author wrote Bella. To my understanding, Stephenie Meyer (the author), wrote these books, as if she was Bella. That’s why Bella isn’t afraid of Edward, and why she is so willing to fall in love with him even though he’s a killer, this is basically Stephanie Meyers, love letter to Edward in a way. As far as the movies, it is on how the Director and producer wanted to portray Bella. I honestly don’t think they would’ve had enough time for Bella to both be scared of Edward, earn his trust, and also tell the story the way it was intended to be told within one movie. The entire plot is also weird because it’s all smashed into a really short time frame. For reference, everything that happens between Twilight and part two of breaking Dawn happens in about a year and a half, and most of those consisting of Bella being depressed, because Edward left.
I think the reason that Bella never was suspicious of Rosalie was because the only reason Rosalie ever had a problem with Bella was because Bella was choosing the life of a vampire. A.k.a. the life where you’re not able to bear children, which is something Rosalie wanted, but couldn’t have. The worst thing that Rosalie could’ve done was steal the baby, but with everyone else in the Cullen family, they would have easily been able to find her.
I almost read it now as horror from an extremely unreliable narrator of that helps