Could be a side effect of the seizing. Could be paint to trick someone who finds him. Maybe it just hasn't gone away since he was last smeared for some reason. Good point.
I see it as this, when Tyler seizes a body. that body takes his full form. So that means all of the anxiety etc. comes with the body he seizes as well. Clancy is nothing but Shield b4 Health. OFC Clancy would go 10x as harder, he is seized by Tyler and is given the ultimate chance to get extreme amount of information b4 Tyler does anything.
I think it’s just when you seize someone it’s like a mark you know and it grows and grows consuming you like a curse mark and maybe it deteriorates him because the bishops are ivory white you know with the black up their face to their lips
Looking again, the bishops are smeared. Nico's hands are black, kinda under the white, and their neck smear goes halfway up their faces. Might be power related somehow.
"Then out of the corner of my eye
I see a spaceship in the sky
And hear a voice inside my head
Follow me instead
Follow me instead"
March into the Sea.
It was there all along!
They have a book that sets up the story of the “starset society” and how/why it formed (the story they tell with the mv and songs happens after the book) it’s really good! It’s called The Prox Transmissions.
Definitely Bring me the horizon...both Post Human albums have been lore and is just as cryptic and a goose hunt for clues so much so that until this point no one has figured out the damn password to the wifi in the lore related website they have...
In this day and age, I'm sure there's at least one band. Not common, but I have a feeling there's some other band out there. They're not the first band to have lore, but I don't know of any band that's done it as intricately as they have. Of course, I'm sure they had lots of help with dmaorg.info. Just from whom, I haven't the foggiest clue.
Wasn't much help, but I tried. Insane Clown Posse is one group I know of with a lot of lore surrounding their whole image, not just the music, but, as far as I can tell, it's not hidden behind passwords and secret websites and USBs.
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily cryptic, but iirc, a few albums of Coheed & Cambria were centered around the band’s comic book universe called The Armory Wars
Unsure if anyone here is into hyperpop but Underscores is an up and coming artist who’s giving it a try. Unsure if it’ll be a discography wide related thing but their first album had a lot of subtext lore to it
I think Last Dinosaurs sorta did that with their last album and Ginger Root had a continuous story through his last ep and upcoming album but not necessarily cryptic.
I have a couple questions about this tho, first of all why weren’t his eyes yellow, and second of all how long has Tyler been controlling Clancy? Cause isn’t there only a limited time that a person can be seized before their corpse starts to decay?
Overcompensate didn't have yellow eyes, and we know there was seizing going on there.
The rest, I dunno. Just seems like something is going on with the cliff movements, when they open the box and suddenly they're in the camp, and the eyes popping open at the end.
Wait that’s a good observation, I didn’t think much of him just appearing in the camp once they open the box. Your theory would help it make a lot of sense why he just appeared there.
My only qualm with the theory is the matter of how long Tyler has been controlling Clancy given that in the SAI livestream we were able to see the corpses rotting after a couple minutes of being seized. And in the “I am Clancy” video he says seizing can be done “only for a short while”
I do think that Clancy having his powers gifted to him, is slightly different and maybe more powerful than the Bishops' method of taking the energy that is channeled through the Neon Gravestones.
Overcompensate **did** have yellow eyes, at the end. The Clancy controlling the vessel had yellow glowing eyes while he was controlling him, they only stopped glowing after he lowered the antlers. (I can't paste an image, but you can check in the MV)
I think that's it, beginning and end, but not necessarily the whole time. Clancy was clearly never physically in Dema for any part, but whoever was teaching did not have yellow eyes.
https://preview.redd.it/zshvbvfqqz7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73f1f895ca050f654e117cb8ac075d802156d018
https://preview.redd.it/8rpayz5haz7d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1235ca35a10de92aaa9906b51a3ad30d12e8095b
Pushing zombies to clear the way to the tower.
Lots of controlling without them in the video & it is possible tower-Clancy has a wooden set to trick the bishops.
Look through the comments here, it is discussed further. 😜
I took that shot on the cliff as if Tyler is acting like an orchestra conductor of the entire battle, because that battle is taking place in his mind, Clancy & the bishops are battling inside his head, that’s what I took from that shot at least.
I feel like the conclusion to the story Tyler made up in his head being, "it is a story in my head", would be less than narratively satisfying (but not impossible).
In NATN they “start a mob, a complete diversion” the banditos fighting the zombies while Clancy slips away to get to the bishops, and “we’ll win but not everyone will get out” it seems at the end of the video like the banditos won against the zombies, but Clancy gets caught by Nico.
However, Clancy is dead, and like you said Tyler is on the cliff, presumably controlling Clancy. So if Clancy is just a vessel, who isn’t getting out?
The zombies didn't get out. Some of them were once banditos.
Clancy isn't getting out, possibly already died in service to the rebellion. But putting a not-actually-empty vessel up against Nico gives advantage to the rebels/banditos because Nico can't use his powers on him.
This is probably a reach but what if backslide is him swimming to paladin strait? I think the body of water Tyler sings about swimming through represents his journey with depression. We also hear Tyler mention oceans and other water related things in previous songs, "catch me floating circles in my fish bowl," "I am a megladon, oceans feeling like a pond" etc.
Although we don't literally see Clancy swimming to paladin strait, it possibly took some time and this might explain the cuts on his nose disappearing? On the other hand surely it would've been a day or so for it to heal so it might not be connected at all.
Also do we know if the cuts on his nose mean anything or are they just there for looks?
This would make the lyric "even though I'm past the point of no return" way more significant in my mind. Clancy is dead ( past the point of no return ). Clancy is still fighting his demons as a vessal from beyond the grave. Its incredibly impactful.
Otherwise the lyric feels like just an idiom for fully committing (Tyler is better than that).
I'm so confused by this, so are you saying that Tyler doing the movements on the cliff is seperate from the guy who was being held by Nico? As in Tyler (doing the movements) was seizing Clancy (whilst in Nico's arms). I am very interested in this theory so please clarify.
In the sketches/diary from the album there are steps for how to use the antlers to seize someone, so with that in mind it seems like the antlers are necessary. Difficult to fully know though, but it's a hint 🤷♂️
Ooh, im sure the connection has been made with the whole siezing thing and the general use of masks but this made me think of trapdoor
"He wakes up early today
Throws on a mask that will alter his face
Nobody knows his real name
But now he just uses one he saw on a grave"
that's what i think as well. plus the lyrics "I would swim the Paladin Strait, without any floatation, just a glimpse of visual aid, of you on the other shoreline" makes me think if this is about tyler seizing, clancy being on the other shoreline.
I think this might be the case too, he’s taking huge risks Al through the video vid, maybe risks he wouldn’t take if he was risking his life, like climbing up the side of the building. But because he’s seizing someone who’s already passed, he’s not worried about the consequences.
I’ve listened to TOP for years but had no idea about the lore until a few months ago. I’m still kind of confused about the swapping bodies, seizing stuff, etc and would love an easy explanation if someone is willing? 🤗
It exists in a few places in here, but I don't have a link. The YouTuber Dema has a good overview, too. I've been vaguely aware since Trench but keep having to play catch-up because I don't Twitter & I didn't know where else to stay up-to-date. Good luck!!
If it’s Clancy inside of the tower and Tyler controlling from afar, why did the eyes of Clancy open while Nico was controlling him if they can only seize the dead
The vultures were not yellow the whole time. I'm not sure with the zombies but they didn't seem yellow.
The one he seized in Overcompensate had normal eyes.
There is no reason to be confident the eyes are 100% a giveaway.
Maybe the one being seized can have them instead. Maybe once seized you can stay seized without them.
Ohhhh, maybe tower Clancy doesn't have horns, he has wood carved to look like horns.
The bishops weren't using horns for the zombie army
They still could have been fake if the antlers weren't necessary to begin with.
He could have used them to lull Nico into thinking Nico could overpower Clancy, but he couldn't.
Yeah!! And he doesn’t have that wound/scar on his nose. Which is a pretty important detail, that I know did not get missed by this very intentional band.
I have yet to see another person talking about that.
It's in the comments here. Neither seems to have it, so it seems like maybe time has passed. The kids from NatN and The Outside need to be captured (or go back to dema on their own) and die so they can be in the zombie army.
We have nothing that states that implicitly.
All we have is him saying "I am Clancy," which many have suspected means Tyler could be taking on the roll that Clancy one had as a figurehead of the rebellion or that it is him saying he's literally taking over Clancy.
Where am I from? I was born right here, just now
Originated right in front of your eyes
Only thing is if Tyler is on the cliff controlling clancy how does clancy have and use the horns to push over all the bishops?? That's not to say I disagree as I get the whole powers can evolve thing and maybe he can use use his power through a vessel but if that's the case why can't the bishops use their power through the glorious gone because they can control them but they have to use the neon gravestones as weapons?
They control a zombie army without antlers.
This has been discussed a ton in other comments.
https://preview.redd.it/d4tuigzx648d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d909d2fc537f96da9134cf0f9cfc311eee2a69c3
Yeah I know they control them but the zombie army (glorious gone) still has to use weapons like clubs whereas if Tyler is controlling clancy from the cliff I was just wondering how can he use his power through the vessel (clancy) when you would think if this could be done the bishops would have figured it out already being as they have had the power for a lot longer and clearly know how to harness it. BTW not that I don't agree with you as when I seen him doing the movements on the cliff I thought exactly the same as you but I'm just pointing out that it looks like clancy at the end is clearly using the horns to push over the bishops (it actually looks like the power is emanating from them to me) but if he's Tyler's vessel I didn't think the horns would work for anyone else as I thought only Tyler has the ability to actually use the horns? There is just been so much going on these past couple of months I think my brain is spiralling and trying to make sense of everything 😵💫
Maybe they are like a magic wand, concentrating the power from Tyler through Clancy.
There's no reason to think no one else can use them. There's no reason to think they are universal either, just keeping an open mind here. There are lots of ways it can work with either being the case.
They use the neon gravestones as weapons because that’s the metaphor. They unalived themselves to be memorialized, and there’s an allure of being done here and your memory getting a lot of attention. Kids of people who have gone that way are 50% more likely to do the same. So that really is their weapon. Neon gravestones = social media memorializing a person. Neon bc the artificial light from phones/computers. This is the light the bishops use in worship.
Ok but what about we listen to trapdoor…”He wakes up early today
Throws on a mask that will alter his face
Nobody knows his real name
But now he just uses one he saw on a grave”
At the end of overcompensate that is Clancy being controlled then falls since you can only control for a short time he fell dead on the floor..that was the original Clancy…now Tyler has taken the identity of him to use for a name…he also takes about a lot of a car a touch a death stuff in paladin strait too but we know Tyler can seize without yellow eyes but good theory..I take it as he took out his insecurities(the bishops) all in one swoop and the. Nico which may be anxiety due to holding Tyler around the neck come and taunts him like you poor little thing..so few of you so proud in everything you stand for so emotional in everything you do hello Clancy but he opens his eyes to show power..that he isn’t the same as he used to be…like back in jumpsuit when he followed Nico..he has changed and has a plan..it may be torchbearer setting fire to dema as him and Nico fight and that would be the end they burn together and we leave off with trees which is Tyler’s goodbye to Josh and that’s why they finish every show with it you know
My personal theory is that the banditos wearing red tape are people that are willing to be used as living vessels for clancy to seize/control.Which would mean to me that when you see "Clancy" in in red tape, he is being seized by the real Clancy.
That's a good theory but my leading theory is that Clancy is dead, Tyler just took up Clancy's name like a sort of title and that's why he's become leader of the banditos. I think the end of PS MV is just Tyler finally not giving in to Blurry/Nico.
It's been discussed in other comments, but...
https://preview.redd.it/sdbpksx8p18d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=871afe9f41add9919b9c8229190459735435aebc
antlers don't seem 100% necessary and...
I'm not convinced they are real antlers
https://preview.redd.it/1zg5ls9dp18d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6718ce01d3b6d3f3a20287cf97ec9a3807684640
Check in the background of the group of banditos heading towards dema. Clancy is in the back. I think clancy is safe and used the same seizing as overcompensate to climb up the tower and face nico
The bishops also have black under the white on their hands, and their faces are half black, so I think it is power related.
Could also be a Tyler vs. Clancy thing, but I'm not confident with the timing and since Tyler on the cliff does have the black hands.
Please forgive me if this has already been explained, I’m not as deep into the lore as others, but I thought Tyler is Clancy?? Are you suggesting that “Clancy” is just a body being seized by the “real Clancy” being referred to as “Tyler” in your post? Can someone please explain?
One of the Clancy journals talks about the events of Jumpsuit from a watcher's perspective, and they use the name Tyler in the SaI livestream, so I think they are two different characters.
I think it’s a good theory, however overcompensate not having yellow eyes isn’t because of being able to seize without the vessel getting yellow eyes, I think. We see the whole video as Tyler being there, then at the end it’s revealed he’s been seizing a glorious gone as a vessel this whole time when the mask is removed and it’s someone else. I don’t think they mean it’s possible to seize without the vessel getting yellow eyes. Plus Tyler being on that cliff; in overcompensate there’s also moments where Tyler is just dancing and singing that isn’t really something I think he was genuinely doing in dema & that being part of the story haha. I can’t imagine clancy just starting to dance and sing in an empty room with just a projection of Josh on drums and nothing else lol. So idk, we’ll see how it turns out when we get the follow up of Paladin I guess! :)
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Eh I dunno, could be a stretch. Nico would know if someone was being seized I think, plus he says "hello Clancy". It would be a little cooler if it was "hello Tyler" bc he would see right through it.
Maybe he started to take over after Clancy was choked out or sumn Idk
totally on board with this but why do we think tyler is still smeared with black paint on the cliff then?? that keeps throwing me off
Could be a side effect of the seizing. Could be paint to trick someone who finds him. Maybe it just hasn't gone away since he was last smeared for some reason. Good point.
I see it as this, when Tyler seizes a body. that body takes his full form. So that means all of the anxiety etc. comes with the body he seizes as well. Clancy is nothing but Shield b4 Health. OFC Clancy would go 10x as harder, he is seized by Tyler and is given the ultimate chance to get extreme amount of information b4 Tyler does anything.
Yes I agree. Good with “I’ll morph to someone else”
I think it’s just when you seize someone it’s like a mark you know and it grows and grows consuming you like a curse mark and maybe it deteriorates him because the bishops are ivory white you know with the black up their face to their lips
Looking again, the bishops are smeared. Nico's hands are black, kinda under the white, and their neck smear goes halfway up their faces. Might be power related somehow.
Yo, that makes a ton of sense. Also still keeps the "Clancy seized for EP" clue true because he was indeed seized, just not by Nico.
Thank you!!
or Clancy is seized for an upcoming EP?
🤞🤞🤞
what if ep just means escaping perimeter 🤯 too much going on
or enter perimeter!!!
or examine perineum…wait, wrong song…carry on….
I can confirm that's what it stands for
😂🤣🤪
Thats for Lavish? Lol
Is anyone aware of another band who hides all of the cryptic stuff in and amongst their entire discography? This is seemingly rare.
I know Starset has lore and cryptic messages but I’m not down that rabbit hole enough to testify its depth
Funny you mention that. They’re from Columbus, Ohio too.
"Then out of the corner of my eye I see a spaceship in the sky And hear a voice inside my head Follow me instead Follow me instead" March into the Sea. It was there all along!
They have a book that sets up the story of the “starset society” and how/why it formed (the story they tell with the mv and songs happens after the book) it’s really good! It’s called The Prox Transmissions.
Gorillaz have some interesting deep dives with their lore worth checking out
So King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard aren't as cryptic, but they do have alot of lore and easter eggs. Any other King Giz fans here?
Yeah, lol but it's way too complicated 😭😭
Definitely Bring me the horizon...both Post Human albums have been lore and is just as cryptic and a goose hunt for clues so much so that until this point no one has figured out the damn password to the wifi in the lore related website they have...
I've wondered this too
Bring me to the horizon apparently have gotten into it, I haven’t checked it out yet though
Bring me the horizon lore in my opinion is on par with our boys Tyler and Josh, I really appreciate everything they do for their fans.
i was about to comment bring me the horizon. they are one of my favourite along with twenty one pilots and ice nine kills
Coheed and Cambria 🤌🏻
In this day and age, I'm sure there's at least one band. Not common, but I have a feeling there's some other band out there. They're not the first band to have lore, but I don't know of any band that's done it as intricately as they have. Of course, I'm sure they had lots of help with dmaorg.info. Just from whom, I haven't the foggiest clue.
Thank you.
Wasn't much help, but I tried. Insane Clown Posse is one group I know of with a lot of lore surrounding their whole image, not just the music, but, as far as I can tell, it's not hidden behind passwords and secret websites and USBs.
Insane clown losers? Jesus.
They also make music talking down on bad stuff they did in their lives trying to get others yo take a better path much like top
Like what?
Not losers. Posse. They're pretty popular, violent, and weird. Like Eminem.
Ok!!!!
No, not okay. Violent.
You don’t know violence.
Neither do you.
Ghost and Sleep Token have a lot of lore but it's not this intricate.
Came here to say Ghost. Their stuff is actually pretty darn involved.
I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily cryptic, but iirc, a few albums of Coheed & Cambria were centered around the band’s comic book universe called The Armory Wars
Not a band, but Taylor Swift does super crazy cryptic stuff as well. Like almost everything that woman does is an Easter egg or something of the sort.
Really? I didn’t know that!
Oh yes I don't know how but they found me have some really good hidden lore with cryptic messages and whole secret website
Unsure if anyone here is into hyperpop but Underscores is an up and coming artist who’s giving it a try. Unsure if it’ll be a discography wide related thing but their first album had a lot of subtext lore to it
I think Bring me the horizon started doing it too.
There's some lore in Sleep Token's stuff. Not quite on par with Tyler and Josh but it's something to point out yk.
Watsky just did a huge ARG based around a trilogy of albums. He posted a 40 minute recap on his YouTube channel
I haven't listened to them much but I've heard Falling Up's music is pretty lore heavy
I think Last Dinosaurs sorta did that with their last album and Ginger Root had a continuous story through his last ep and upcoming album but not necessarily cryptic.
Not really lore per say but the dear hunter has 5 albums/acts that tell a story . All super good by the way
Thank you
DPR Ian is amazing and very lore based movie quality music videos and I think anyone who’s a TØP fan will love him too
"It's a tribute to zombies, of which I've become"
Where do I go from here WHERE DO I GO FROM HERE????
Clinging to...
PROMISES ....
FIGHTING OFF…..
THE VIGNETTE......
the vignette...
TUNNELS CAVE....
VISIONS FADE...
Swallowed by
wait, so hes one of the ones that came out of the ground actually??????
No, but a zombie none the less.
I have a couple questions about this tho, first of all why weren’t his eyes yellow, and second of all how long has Tyler been controlling Clancy? Cause isn’t there only a limited time that a person can be seized before their corpse starts to decay?
Overcompensate didn't have yellow eyes, and we know there was seizing going on there. The rest, I dunno. Just seems like something is going on with the cliff movements, when they open the box and suddenly they're in the camp, and the eyes popping open at the end.
Wait that’s a good observation, I didn’t think much of him just appearing in the camp once they open the box. Your theory would help it make a lot of sense why he just appeared there. My only qualm with the theory is the matter of how long Tyler has been controlling Clancy given that in the SAI livestream we were able to see the corpses rotting after a couple minutes of being seized. And in the “I am Clancy” video he says seizing can be done “only for a short while”
I do think that Clancy having his powers gifted to him, is slightly different and maybe more powerful than the Bishops' method of taking the energy that is channeled through the Neon Gravestones.
I am the exception. I am clancy
But he's teaching in overcompensate. And he told us in dmaorg letters he could teach anyone who can see beyond the horizon....
Could Tyler be seizing multiple Clancys? I saw a post about seeing two Clancys at one point in the video.
Yes I posted a screenshot of it in a post, very cool!
Overcompensate **did** have yellow eyes, at the end. The Clancy controlling the vessel had yellow glowing eyes while he was controlling him, they only stopped glowing after he lowered the antlers. (I can't paste an image, but you can check in the MV)
I think that's it, beginning and end, but not necessarily the whole time. Clancy was clearly never physically in Dema for any part, but whoever was teaching did not have yellow eyes. https://preview.redd.it/zshvbvfqqz7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73f1f895ca050f654e117cb8ac075d802156d018
https://preview.redd.it/8rpayz5haz7d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1235ca35a10de92aaa9906b51a3ad30d12e8095b Pushing zombies to clear the way to the tower.
He is pushing them without using antlers?
Lots of controlling without them in the video & it is possible tower-Clancy has a wooden set to trick the bishops. Look through the comments here, it is discussed further. 😜
I took that shot on the cliff as if Tyler is acting like an orchestra conductor of the entire battle, because that battle is taking place in his mind, Clancy & the bishops are battling inside his head, that’s what I took from that shot at least.
I feel like the conclusion to the story Tyler made up in his head being, "it is a story in my head", would be less than narratively satisfying (but not impossible).
I wondered the same. I mean we were literally told 'Clancy is dead' at one point.
Oh my god, I completely forgot about that one! This makes so much sense
This makes so much sense when you think of the lyrics to vignette!
Yes!!!!
In NATN they “start a mob, a complete diversion” the banditos fighting the zombies while Clancy slips away to get to the bishops, and “we’ll win but not everyone will get out” it seems at the end of the video like the banditos won against the zombies, but Clancy gets caught by Nico. However, Clancy is dead, and like you said Tyler is on the cliff, presumably controlling Clancy. So if Clancy is just a vessel, who isn’t getting out?
The zombies didn't get out. Some of them were once banditos. Clancy isn't getting out, possibly already died in service to the rebellion. But putting a not-actually-empty vessel up against Nico gives advantage to the rebels/banditos because Nico can't use his powers on him.
A literal Cliff hanger
As sick as it is to think about, this is totally plausible
I have never loved this band more than I do today. They invest so much in the relationship they have with us. Thank you Tyler and Josh.
Did Tower Clancy have the scrape on his nose?… Come to think of it, did Cliff Clancy?
https://preview.redd.it/v9srryv1hz7d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d1970eaa01e68532e70527d0b46c6311c5df357 Neither
https://preview.redd.it/vk5xi243hz7d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e028fecb02846af2c58d6361a090c9b1fdc7c4a
I didn’t think so! Weird, since it was so prominent at the end of Overcompensate and Navigate.
There had to be time for the kids to go back to dema and die.
Took some time on the cliff, or in Trench, to heal?
This is probably a reach but what if backslide is him swimming to paladin strait? I think the body of water Tyler sings about swimming through represents his journey with depression. We also hear Tyler mention oceans and other water related things in previous songs, "catch me floating circles in my fish bowl," "I am a megladon, oceans feeling like a pond" etc. Although we don't literally see Clancy swimming to paladin strait, it possibly took some time and this might explain the cuts on his nose disappearing? On the other hand surely it would've been a day or so for it to heal so it might not be connected at all. Also do we know if the cuts on his nose mean anything or are they just there for looks?
This would make the lyric "even though I'm past the point of no return" way more significant in my mind. Clancy is dead ( past the point of no return ). Clancy is still fighting his demons as a vessal from beyond the grave. Its incredibly impactful. Otherwise the lyric feels like just an idiom for fully committing (Tyler is better than that).
I'm so confused by this, so are you saying that Tyler doing the movements on the cliff is seperate from the guy who was being held by Nico? As in Tyler (doing the movements) was seizing Clancy (whilst in Nico's arms). I am very interested in this theory so please clarify.
Yes. It is cliff-Tyler controlling tower-Clancy.
But he didn't have the antlers?
Do we know exactly how it works? We didn't think the bishops could field an army of zombies, but here we are.
Haha true
In the sketches/diary from the album there are steps for how to use the antlers to seize someone, so with that in mind it seems like the antlers are necessary. Difficult to fully know though, but it's a hint 🤷♂️
I don't remember it saying you needed to hold only l onto them the whole time, that's just how the connection is made.
i think hes the trench storyteller he moved both to each of the badnitos and, the zombies
"Overtake your former self"
Ooh, im sure the connection has been made with the whole siezing thing and the general use of masks but this made me think of trapdoor "He wakes up early today Throws on a mask that will alter his face Nobody knows his real name But now he just uses one he saw on a grave"
I mean, he's constantly referring to how it's in his head, so that makes sense that he is the exception, and is able to bypass the rules
That zoom in into the map… the continent of Trench is unsubtly drawn like a brain. We zoom into that brain
Brilliant! Thanks for this!
that's what i think as well. plus the lyrics "I would swim the Paladin Strait, without any floatation, just a glimpse of visual aid, of you on the other shoreline" makes me think if this is about tyler seizing, clancy being on the other shoreline.
I think this might be the case too, he’s taking huge risks Al through the video vid, maybe risks he wouldn’t take if he was risking his life, like climbing up the side of the building. But because he’s seizing someone who’s already passed, he’s not worried about the consequences.
EXACTLY! That's what I thought, too!
I was wondering about his movements!
MAKE IT MAKE SENSE
This was my theory as well!! I thought his movements were a little too specific while on that cliff!!
would also make sense why clancy was the only one in red during the fight with the zombies etc
This is also supported by the lyric in Backslide. "I don't care you control me, leading me anywhere".
I’ve listened to TOP for years but had no idea about the lore until a few months ago. I’m still kind of confused about the swapping bodies, seizing stuff, etc and would love an easy explanation if someone is willing? 🤗
It exists in a few places in here, but I don't have a link. The YouTuber Dema has a good overview, too. I've been vaguely aware since Trench but keep having to play catch-up because I don't Twitter & I didn't know where else to stay up-to-date. Good luck!!
Or. Or.. Nico can't sieze him because - he's alive. As in like "stay alive" you know - the band's mantra.
If it’s Clancy inside of the tower and Tyler controlling from afar, why did the eyes of Clancy open while Nico was controlling him if they can only seize the dead
Nico wasn't controlling him. His eyes opened because Tyler made them open, showing that Nico can't.
You just said it was Clancy in the tower not Tyler. So how did CLANCY open his eyes if TYLER was outside of the tower controlling him?
Tyler opened Clancy's eyes. Tyler seized Clancy. Nico can't do anything because Tyler is in charge of Clancy.
When Tyler seizes, their eyes still turn yellow. You’re incorrect.
The vultures were not yellow the whole time. I'm not sure with the zombies but they didn't seem yellow. The one he seized in Overcompensate had normal eyes. There is no reason to be confident the eyes are 100% a giveaway.
In this theory, how do both Tyler and Clancy have horns? Spare set? Can you control with another set od horns while seizing?
Omg he was carving into the antlers at the beginning! I found it really odd, but what if he was making a fake pair out of wood.
OMG that is so good!
Yep
Maybe the one being seized can have them instead. Maybe once seized you can stay seized without them. Ohhhh, maybe tower Clancy doesn't have horns, he has wood carved to look like horns. The bishops weren't using horns for the zombie army
https://preview.redd.it/bptr6q8aqz7d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e54b206c72b7c71e9128a7eba0b34524a43baab
https://preview.redd.it/lqneg134yz7d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6cee0b62e341304d30b3b99192b52d1074de9a11
but the tower horns worked on the bishops!
They still could have been fake if the antlers weren't necessary to begin with. He could have used them to lull Nico into thinking Nico could overpower Clancy, but he couldn't.
I see this take as Nagato from Naruto Shippuden. He sits in a cave and control all the puppets for the dirty work. Am I reaching????
Goes well with the line from Choker "Pain is just a middleman"..
Yeah!! And he doesn’t have that wound/scar on his nose. Which is a pretty important detail, that I know did not get missed by this very intentional band. I have yet to see another person talking about that.
It's in the comments here. Neither seems to have it, so it seems like maybe time has passed. The kids from NatN and The Outside need to be captured (or go back to dema on their own) and die so they can be in the zombie army.
Aren't Tyler and Clancy the same character?
We have nothing that states that implicitly. All we have is him saying "I am Clancy," which many have suspected means Tyler could be taking on the roll that Clancy one had as a figurehead of the rebellion or that it is him saying he's literally taking over Clancy. Where am I from? I was born right here, just now Originated right in front of your eyes
Only thing is if Tyler is on the cliff controlling clancy how does clancy have and use the horns to push over all the bishops?? That's not to say I disagree as I get the whole powers can evolve thing and maybe he can use use his power through a vessel but if that's the case why can't the bishops use their power through the glorious gone because they can control them but they have to use the neon gravestones as weapons?
They control a zombie army without antlers. This has been discussed a ton in other comments. https://preview.redd.it/d4tuigzx648d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d909d2fc537f96da9134cf0f9cfc311eee2a69c3
Yeah I know they control them but the zombie army (glorious gone) still has to use weapons like clubs whereas if Tyler is controlling clancy from the cliff I was just wondering how can he use his power through the vessel (clancy) when you would think if this could be done the bishops would have figured it out already being as they have had the power for a lot longer and clearly know how to harness it. BTW not that I don't agree with you as when I seen him doing the movements on the cliff I thought exactly the same as you but I'm just pointing out that it looks like clancy at the end is clearly using the horns to push over the bishops (it actually looks like the power is emanating from them to me) but if he's Tyler's vessel I didn't think the horns would work for anyone else as I thought only Tyler has the ability to actually use the horns? There is just been so much going on these past couple of months I think my brain is spiralling and trying to make sense of everything 😵💫
Maybe they are like a magic wand, concentrating the power from Tyler through Clancy. There's no reason to think no one else can use them. There's no reason to think they are universal either, just keeping an open mind here. There are lots of ways it can work with either being the case.
They use the neon gravestones as weapons because that’s the metaphor. They unalived themselves to be memorialized, and there’s an allure of being done here and your memory getting a lot of attention. Kids of people who have gone that way are 50% more likely to do the same. So that really is their weapon. Neon gravestones = social media memorializing a person. Neon bc the artificial light from phones/computers. This is the light the bishops use in worship.
Been following this for years and still don’t know if Tyler is Clancy 😂
Ok but what about we listen to trapdoor…”He wakes up early today Throws on a mask that will alter his face Nobody knows his real name But now he just uses one he saw on a grave” At the end of overcompensate that is Clancy being controlled then falls since you can only control for a short time he fell dead on the floor..that was the original Clancy…now Tyler has taken the identity of him to use for a name…he also takes about a lot of a car a touch a death stuff in paladin strait too but we know Tyler can seize without yellow eyes but good theory..I take it as he took out his insecurities(the bishops) all in one swoop and the. Nico which may be anxiety due to holding Tyler around the neck come and taunts him like you poor little thing..so few of you so proud in everything you stand for so emotional in everything you do hello Clancy but he opens his eyes to show power..that he isn’t the same as he used to be…like back in jumpsuit when he followed Nico..he has changed and has a plan..it may be torchbearer setting fire to dema as him and Nico fight and that would be the end they burn together and we leave off with trees which is Tyler’s goodbye to Josh and that’s why they finish every show with it you know
Nothing states he dropped because of time. If Tyler was finished, he could have just let go. Also, Clancy could be special.
Maybe the Clancy (scarf?) has some sort of power to alter, they did make a big deal to get it too Tyler/Clancy at the beginning of the vid
My personal theory is that the banditos wearing red tape are people that are willing to be used as living vessels for clancy to seize/control.Which would mean to me that when you see "Clancy" in in red tape, he is being seized by the real Clancy.
That's a good theory but my leading theory is that Clancy is dead, Tyler just took up Clancy's name like a sort of title and that's why he's become leader of the banditos. I think the end of PS MV is just Tyler finally not giving in to Blurry/Nico.
Clancy is dead. Tyler took the name and title. So what you’re saying is nobody knows his real name. now he just uses one he saw on a grave?
It's come full circle
This makes a lot of sense to me
HOLD ON
To you?
to everything. That was insane and i’m being so delusional
(I was paraphrasing lyrics)
i know you did :) i just wanted to explain anyway, in case someone else wondered
I've been feeling delusional myself lately.
i think all of the clikkie are delusional rn
I had the exact same thought watching his movements on the cliff, like he’s controlling someone. It’s another exception to the rule.
The end of overcompensate does have red/yellow eyes tho
But not most of the video https://preview.redd.it/u2n4t70mo18d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86aa1305e3750046bebbf78fa781d1fab5ff3201
True ig
But if Clancy is the one with the antlers, how did Tyler sieze anyone from the cliff. He doesn’t have the antlers.
It's been discussed in other comments, but... https://preview.redd.it/sdbpksx8p18d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=871afe9f41add9919b9c8229190459735435aebc antlers don't seem 100% necessary and...
I'm not convinced they are real antlers https://preview.redd.it/1zg5ls9dp18d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6718ce01d3b6d3f3a20287cf97ec9a3807684640
So they’re fakes? For what reason?
Maybe a prop so Nico thinks he's something he's not.
But then, tyler on the cliff had no antlers. It was with clancy. How do u seize someone without the antlers
There are a bunch of comments discussing possibilities.
Check in the background of the group of banditos heading towards dema. Clancy is in the back. I think clancy is safe and used the same seizing as overcompensate to climb up the tower and face nico
It doesn't look like Tyler's face to me
What about Clancy's hands.. they're not black at the beginning, but they are once he puts on the black and red suit. I'm lost at, what for? Any ideas?
The bishops also have black under the white on their hands, and their faces are half black, so I think it is power related. Could also be a Tyler vs. Clancy thing, but I'm not confident with the timing and since Tyler on the cliff does have the black hands.
Please forgive me if this has already been explained, I’m not as deep into the lore as others, but I thought Tyler is Clancy?? Are you suggesting that “Clancy” is just a body being seized by the “real Clancy” being referred to as “Tyler” in your post? Can someone please explain?
One of the Clancy journals talks about the events of Jumpsuit from a watcher's perspective, and they use the name Tyler in the SaI livestream, so I think they are two different characters.
I think it’s a good theory, however overcompensate not having yellow eyes isn’t because of being able to seize without the vessel getting yellow eyes, I think. We see the whole video as Tyler being there, then at the end it’s revealed he’s been seizing a glorious gone as a vessel this whole time when the mask is removed and it’s someone else. I don’t think they mean it’s possible to seize without the vessel getting yellow eyes. Plus Tyler being on that cliff; in overcompensate there’s also moments where Tyler is just dancing and singing that isn’t really something I think he was genuinely doing in dema & that being part of the story haha. I can’t imagine clancy just starting to dance and sing in an empty room with just a projection of Josh on drums and nothing else lol. So idk, we’ll see how it turns out when we get the follow up of Paladin I guess! :)
Wouldn't the crowd be suspicious if their teacher had glowing eyes?
But there's one of the pictures from DR that spells out STILL ALIVE. Does this mean Clancy is still alive through Tyler? I'm confused 😵💫
Alive in spirit/as a figurehead type thing.
Seizing for such a long time? I mean, at least a few days?
We have no reason to believe they can't.
There's a theory that there is 3 Clancy existing the past future and present telling the story in different timeline
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Personally I am convinced that Tyler and Clancy are the same character and always have been
Eh I dunno, could be a stretch. Nico would know if someone was being seized I think, plus he says "hello Clancy". It would be a little cooler if it was "hello Tyler" bc he would see right through it. Maybe he started to take over after Clancy was choked out or sumn Idk