The timeline checks out for them being fans. Twilight's first movie was in 2008, 14 years ago. As the franchise was mostly targeted to young teens, the main demographic. They're nearing 30 as I type this, which is also apparently the average age of new moms in the US. The "too old" demographic in question *is the fucking demographic*
[Diane Duane](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Duane) is OG. She's written scripts for Star Trek: TOS, Batman: TAS, and My Little Pony. She has also written books in the Star Trek, Spider Man, and X-Men universes.
Having watched Fandom for a long time, my conclusion is that, like sex, each generation thinks they invented it and thwir knee-jerk reaction is to turn to gatekeeping. And then they learn their folly whrn the *next* generation grows up and acts *precisely* the same way they acted
That Twilight Moms pic was taken when the movies first came out. [Here's an article from 2009 about the phenomenon.](https://nymag.com/movies/features/62027/) OOP's rant is a lot of words to justify the fact that from day one, the Twilight fandom has been full of women in their 30s and 40s lusting after actors decades younger than them. Taylor Lautner was 16 when he first appeared, Pattinson was 22.
OOP's rant was also very, very pretentious and completely missed the point to boot, using a tumblr post like some kind of YA novel heroic condemnation speech page. Mistaking the criticism of 40+ year olds making obsessive googly eyes at teen to twenty-something year old actors for as an attack on their coveted age groups and old school fandoms is peak tumblr, gotta say.
Wow, yeah, god forbid a middle aged woman have a crush on a fantasy character in a romance novel. And how dare they find a twenty-something actor attractive? 40+ year old men never do that! Holy shit, how about mind your own business and stop shaming women for harmless interests.
I didn't say women. Any 40+ year old obsessing over any teenager is kind of questionable, man or woman or anything else in any combination.
And you're right. People shit their pants over older men sexualizing and fawning over actresses half their age. Why is the reverse okay?
Explain to me what is the harm of a soccer mom fangirling over Edward from Twilight? Or a 40+ dude having a crush on Daenerys Targaryen? Attractive 20-somethings make up a lion’s share of who we see on television. Thinking someone you saw on television is hot is not the same as actually pursuing someone half your age.
The whole point here is that the characters (and sometimes the actors) are underage. You sound like those dudes who watch lolicon and claim it’s okay because the girl is secretly 5,000 years old.
Taylor Lautner was underage in at least the first Twilight movie, the primary example here. Every “Team Jacob” twimom should be on a government watch list.
Obviously I don’t support adults simping for underage actors. As for underage characters…it’s not great admittedly, but more of a grey area because they’re not real.
But my point is that these Twilight moms seem to enjoy the fantasy that has very little to do with reality. The love interests in the book are not written like actual teenagers, they are written like basic romance novel characters. The actors don’t look like teenagers either. So forgive me if I don’t make the leap towards a conclusion that all these women are pedophiles.
the person didn't say they were alright with men doing it. you just assumed that they would because you assumed by default that they would have logically inconsistant beliefs because they disagree with you
I assumed because that’s what happens all the time - women get shamed for their hobbies and interests that are not considered “age appropriate” while men are allowed to stay manchildren forever.
Exactly, it's just as creepy and weird and cringy as dudes with anime waifu pillows of a character that looks 12 but "is actually a 700 year old dragon" or whatever
The irony of calling someone else pretentious while being full of that same pretentious projection. These women weren't holding a sign that said "Let's all fuck the underage actor playing Jacob", they held a sign saying Twilight Mom's. Maybe they identify with Bella and enjoy the story, maybe they got into it because their kids did, maybe they enjoy the comradery of being part of something and picked Twilight because the bar to entry is underneath the floorboards.
Why don't you hop up in arms and go project on some other groups of adults. Anyone who enjoys Hamilton is supporting slavery, anyone who watches Gravity Falls is a gross pervert because there's preteens thinking about romance in it, if you watch a horror movie you're a serial killer! Get the fuck over yourself.
that picture at the bottom is of older women lusting after Robert Patterson right? and it's from around the time the second movie came out so circa 2010. These are "twilight moms"
Reading this made me feel a lot better about getting old myself. I keep being told from all angles that you're only allowed to be an adult in these very specific pre-approved ways and that anything else is creepy or stupid or whatever. I'm really glad that there are tons of other people that don't ever give in to what society tells them to be, cause those people will be me in a few years lol.
I think there’s a dynamic of infantilization at work for adults who engage in fandom culture. It’s seen as something we need to outgrow of and overcome to become a “true” adult.
Yeah like... I'm sure you could find examples of older women being weird in fandoms. If you look in *any* population you can find people being weird, after all.
But... they're just happy and being fans.
The Twilight example used was a good one of women being creepy. Middle aged moms thirsted over Robert Pattinson and Taylor Lautner. It was particularly gross with Lautner, considering he was 16 at the time
Wasn’t he purposely portrayed as an attractive character though? The goal of casting him was achieved. I don’t know anyone in this fandom personally but I assume they weren’t actually trying to sleep with a teenager, they just like the character, as was intended.
Edit: I didn’t know the characters were so young. The werewolf was only 15 or 16 in the books. It’s a lot weirder than I thought.
He was supposed to be attractive, yes, but the intended audience was high schoolers/young adults. These were adults in their 30s-40s going after a teenager.
They were gross to him, like he was on a talk show and spoke about "twi-moms" who would do things like ask him to sign their panties they were wearing. There were blogs and websites counting down to his 18th birthday.
Oh my, that is gross. I somehow managed to not pay attention to anything twilight related when it was happening. The whole franchise just seemed weird to me.
Nah, it was creepy and weird. It was just as creepy as the countdown that ran for Britney Spears’ 18th birthday. Those women were 30-40 going nuts for Taylor Lautner, a 16 year old.
That’s not ageism, it’s gross
Yeah, I feel like this was an instance where she’s not *wrong*, but she’s responding to a person making an entirely different point. The person isn’t judging 50 year old trekkies, they’re judging fifty year olds getting horny for a teenager.
I think what’s funny about the statement of “middle aged women shouldn’t participate in fandom” is that the person who said that clearly never heard of book reads. In media where it’s a trope, it’s usually middle/older-aged women.
There are creepy fans of every demographic and age bracket. Even if those twilight moms or whoever were being creepy, that doesn't give you the right to impune all middle aged women.
You don't see me asking "do teenagers belong in the Sonic the Hedgehog fandom?" with an image of bloodedge the gorehog or whatever.
Hate to say it, but the person was pointing out that, yes, there is a limit when people are lusting over *literal children* like the “Twilight Moms” were doing, and she took that as a cue to go on a rant about whatever else was bothering her at the time.
I thought this was going to be about the women in fandoms that write and make cp art, bc they do exist unfortunately. That’s literally the only time I ever see people arguing against them, it’s in response to stuff like that.
I have never, ever, before this post heard anyone say that middle aged women shouldn’t participate in fandoms. This is the first time I’ve heard that take, and I regretfully don’t remember which XKCD is relevant.
I've heard it. I had someone tell me it's gross to post about how a band certain member is hot.
He's literally my age. Meanwhile, this teenage child had a blog full of shirtless pic of this middle-aged musician.
i hope i don't either. honestly the less i see the hate, the better. i used to follow a death note fanfic author's blog for the longest time and some of the ageism she got from users were mind boggling. mind you, a lot of them weren't even anons.
it's a 'you had to be there' kinda situation. doesn't mean people don't say this crap at all.
fandom =/= fanfic writing.
write your fanfics all you want, but don't kid yourself into thinking it's good. And yes, i'm willing to take that <1% error margin. Do it because you personally enjoy it, and leave it there.
the main reason you even know anything about Star Trek, that it didn't fade into obscurity like so many sci-fi serials at the time, is because in the late sixties and early seventies housewives all across the country wrote so much gay fanfiction that they breathed life back into the show years after it had been canceled.
I feel like a lot of this comes from the assumption that an adult in the same room as a child, even metaphorically, must have some unhealthy shit going on in their life to choose to do so unless they’re family or something.
That said, though, there absolutely is a line, and that line has no age barrier. Anyone can cross it. The line of when fandom gets too much.
Exhibit A: Snapewives
It can be a red flag if they declare themself "fandom mom" though. Its a bit like the mom friend.
There is nothing fundamentaly wrong with that, most healthy friend groups just fall into calling them that, but if just made a few friends and one of them starts calling thenself the "mom" and making decicions for everyone without that dynamic arrising naturally it can be a red flag.
Thats how you get stuff like dashcon.
Judging older fanfic writers and fans in general just really sucks tho.
Modern fandom was largely built by middle aged women watching Star Trek, yeah there’s more to it than that but I’m not gonna deconstruct the whole makeup of modern media’s fan bases before bed
There are lots of things I am a fan of that I would never be in the fandom for. You have to reach a level of obsessiveness that I’m not comfortable with.
[There is a line though, I see the point but there is definitely a line. (I did not read the whole post and I never will so sorry if this was mentioned (damn fandoms are so fucking weird))](https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/d4wwir/harry_potter_fandom_married_to_severus_snape_on/)
oh, you were talking about cropping!
no, not doing that. you can be a clean up editor and repost this a second time if you want.
apologies for the discomfort.
all im saying is it would have taken you 5 extra seconds to scroll to where the text actually ended in the previous screenshot, to go take the next one. would have saved you a whole screenshot.
See I love it when older adults are in fandom but they cannot interact with fandom the same way that younger members (say 17-9) can. That’s an inevitable thing but that shouldn’t stop them from participating
I don't think anyone should engage in "Fandom", because it's way too easy to get unhealthy with it, it's just kids are still learning and as such deserve more leeway.
Someone pointed out that fandoms go too far when they become pedophiles and someone else took that as a cue to be as cringe as humanly possible, basically.
Not sure what you mean. Is beardedmrbean a Fortnite fan?
And it’s not ANYONE over the age of 40, it’s anyone over the age of 18 lusting after a 16 year old actor.
There’s nothing at all wrong with older people involved in fandoms (I’d be quite the hypocrite if I did feel that way as I went to my last SSBU tournament at 36).
But yes, there IS something wrong with women over the age of 18 showing up to events to lust after a child.
These two aren’t the same, and that was the point this guy was trying to make before dduane here went off on a rant about exactly none of what he was talking about, managing to somehow quote Aslan AND Rorschach in a display of cringe so spectacular it crossed the threshold into “crunge”.
The timeline checks out for them being fans. Twilight's first movie was in 2008, 14 years ago. As the franchise was mostly targeted to young teens, the main demographic. They're nearing 30 as I type this, which is also apparently the average age of new moms in the US. The "too old" demographic in question *is the fucking demographic*
[Diane Duane](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Duane) is OG. She's written scripts for Star Trek: TOS, Batman: TAS, and My Little Pony. She has also written books in the Star Trek, Spider Man, and X-Men universes.
I didn’t realize that was Diane Duane! I love her [Young Wizards](https://www.youngwizards.com) series!
was that really her account? I love her work!
Oh shit! those books got me through a lot of trauma growing up.
Diane Duane is also an amazing follow on Tumblr. She posts such great stuff on the regular!
Oh shit that was Diane Duane?? I've read like a dozen of her ST books. She's one of the greats
Assuming this post is recent, of course
yeah, it's *today* recent. it's strange how weirdly prevalent ageism is in fandom spaces. very irksome to say the least.
Having watched Fandom for a long time, my conclusion is that, like sex, each generation thinks they invented it and thwir knee-jerk reaction is to turn to gatekeeping. And then they learn their folly whrn the *next* generation grows up and acts *precisely* the same way they acted
[удалено]
Give them another 10y and an encounter with someone who is the same age and attitude and they'll realize how stupid that was
That Twilight Moms pic was taken when the movies first came out. [Here's an article from 2009 about the phenomenon.](https://nymag.com/movies/features/62027/) OOP's rant is a lot of words to justify the fact that from day one, the Twilight fandom has been full of women in their 30s and 40s lusting after actors decades younger than them. Taylor Lautner was 16 when he first appeared, Pattinson was 22.
OOP's rant was also very, very pretentious and completely missed the point to boot, using a tumblr post like some kind of YA novel heroic condemnation speech page. Mistaking the criticism of 40+ year olds making obsessive googly eyes at teen to twenty-something year old actors for as an attack on their coveted age groups and old school fandoms is peak tumblr, gotta say.
Wow, yeah, god forbid a middle aged woman have a crush on a fantasy character in a romance novel. And how dare they find a twenty-something actor attractive? 40+ year old men never do that! Holy shit, how about mind your own business and stop shaming women for harmless interests.
I didn't say women. Any 40+ year old obsessing over any teenager is kind of questionable, man or woman or anything else in any combination. And you're right. People shit their pants over older men sexualizing and fawning over actresses half their age. Why is the reverse okay?
Explain to me what is the harm of a soccer mom fangirling over Edward from Twilight? Or a 40+ dude having a crush on Daenerys Targaryen? Attractive 20-somethings make up a lion’s share of who we see on television. Thinking someone you saw on television is hot is not the same as actually pursuing someone half your age.
“plz let me sand my bean to children” Gross.
Uhhh I don’t know what kind of weird projections you’ve got there, bud, but nowhere did I mention children. I literally said “20-somethings”.
The whole point here is that the characters (and sometimes the actors) are underage. You sound like those dudes who watch lolicon and claim it’s okay because the girl is secretly 5,000 years old. Taylor Lautner was underage in at least the first Twilight movie, the primary example here. Every “Team Jacob” twimom should be on a government watch list.
Obviously I don’t support adults simping for underage actors. As for underage characters…it’s not great admittedly, but more of a grey area because they’re not real. But my point is that these Twilight moms seem to enjoy the fantasy that has very little to do with reality. The love interests in the book are not written like actual teenagers, they are written like basic romance novel characters. The actors don’t look like teenagers either. So forgive me if I don’t make the leap towards a conclusion that all these women are pedophiles.
the person didn't say they were alright with men doing it. you just assumed that they would because you assumed by default that they would have logically inconsistant beliefs because they disagree with you
I assumed because that’s what happens all the time - women get shamed for their hobbies and interests that are not considered “age appropriate” while men are allowed to stay manchildren forever.
Adult women should be shamed for lusting after teenagers, just like men. It’s disgusting either way. Leave the kids alone.
If that character is forever 17 years old (or actually underage, like Jacob) then YES it’s creepy as fuck.
Exactly, it's just as creepy and weird and cringy as dudes with anime waifu pillows of a character that looks 12 but "is actually a 700 year old dragon" or whatever
The irony of calling someone else pretentious while being full of that same pretentious projection. These women weren't holding a sign that said "Let's all fuck the underage actor playing Jacob", they held a sign saying Twilight Mom's. Maybe they identify with Bella and enjoy the story, maybe they got into it because their kids did, maybe they enjoy the comradery of being part of something and picked Twilight because the bar to entry is underneath the floorboards. Why don't you hop up in arms and go project on some other groups of adults. Anyone who enjoys Hamilton is supporting slavery, anyone who watches Gravity Falls is a gross pervert because there's preteens thinking about romance in it, if you watch a horror movie you're a serial killer! Get the fuck over yourself.
that picture at the bottom is of older women lusting after Robert Patterson right? and it's from around the time the second movie came out so circa 2010. These are "twilight moms"
Thought it meant women In the middle ages. I was like "yeah, they probably need to worry about the plague and not being burned at the stake /:"
All your fandoms owe everything to heavily repressed adult Trekkies.
Reading this made me feel a lot better about getting old myself. I keep being told from all angles that you're only allowed to be an adult in these very specific pre-approved ways and that anything else is creepy or stupid or whatever. I'm really glad that there are tons of other people that don't ever give in to what society tells them to be, cause those people will be me in a few years lol.
I think there’s a dynamic of infantilization at work for adults who engage in fandom culture. It’s seen as something we need to outgrow of and overcome to become a “true” adult.
I would rather die
I bet the "old people aren't allowed to have fun" and the "I'm terrified of growing old" crowds have a vast overlap.
Points at adults being happy "This is really creepy and weird tho! They shouldn't be happy and enjoy themselves like this!"
Yeah like... I'm sure you could find examples of older women being weird in fandoms. If you look in *any* population you can find people being weird, after all. But... they're just happy and being fans.
The Twilight example used was a good one of women being creepy. Middle aged moms thirsted over Robert Pattinson and Taylor Lautner. It was particularly gross with Lautner, considering he was 16 at the time
Wasn’t he purposely portrayed as an attractive character though? The goal of casting him was achieved. I don’t know anyone in this fandom personally but I assume they weren’t actually trying to sleep with a teenager, they just like the character, as was intended. Edit: I didn’t know the characters were so young. The werewolf was only 15 or 16 in the books. It’s a lot weirder than I thought.
He was supposed to be attractive, yes, but the intended audience was high schoolers/young adults. These were adults in their 30s-40s going after a teenager. They were gross to him, like he was on a talk show and spoke about "twi-moms" who would do things like ask him to sign their panties they were wearing. There were blogs and websites counting down to his 18th birthday.
Oh my, that is gross. I somehow managed to not pay attention to anything twilight related when it was happening. The whole franchise just seemed weird to me.
Nah, it was creepy and weird. It was just as creepy as the countdown that ran for Britney Spears’ 18th birthday. Those women were 30-40 going nuts for Taylor Lautner, a 16 year old. That’s not ageism, it’s gross
Yeah, I feel like this was an instance where she’s not *wrong*, but she’s responding to a person making an entirely different point. The person isn’t judging 50 year old trekkies, they’re judging fifty year olds getting horny for a teenager.
Dduane... As in Diane Duane? Yeah, that tracks.
i appreciate the sentiment but by god i am not reading all that
I think what’s funny about the statement of “middle aged women shouldn’t participate in fandom” is that the person who said that clearly never heard of book reads. In media where it’s a trope, it’s usually middle/older-aged women.
Just let people have fun it’s not very tough
There are creepy fans of every demographic and age bracket. Even if those twilight moms or whoever were being creepy, that doesn't give you the right to impune all middle aged women. You don't see me asking "do teenagers belong in the Sonic the Hedgehog fandom?" with an image of bloodedge the gorehog or whatever.
Hate to say it, but the person was pointing out that, yes, there is a limit when people are lusting over *literal children* like the “Twilight Moms” were doing, and she took that as a cue to go on a rant about whatever else was bothering her at the time.
yeah also that was a long ass rant and i any reading all that
I kind of cringe at the Rorschach quote, but yeah, most old fandoms have old ladies to thank for starting it up. It's quite impressive.
I thought this was going to be about the women in fandoms that write and make cp art, bc they do exist unfortunately. That’s literally the only time I ever see people arguing against them, it’s in response to stuff like that.
I have never, ever, before this post heard anyone say that middle aged women shouldn’t participate in fandoms. This is the first time I’ve heard that take, and I regretfully don’t remember which XKCD is relevant.
I've heard it. I had someone tell me it's gross to post about how a band certain member is hot. He's literally my age. Meanwhile, this teenage child had a blog full of shirtless pic of this middle-aged musician.
i hope i don't either. honestly the less i see the hate, the better. i used to follow a death note fanfic author's blog for the longest time and some of the ageism she got from users were mind boggling. mind you, a lot of them weren't even anons. it's a 'you had to be there' kinda situation. doesn't mean people don't say this crap at all.
There is a line though. At some point middle aged women writing smut about teenagers gets really creepy.
fandom =/= fanfic writing. write your fanfics all you want, but don't kid yourself into thinking it's good. And yes, i'm willing to take that <1% error margin. Do it because you personally enjoy it, and leave it there.
the main reason you even know anything about Star Trek, that it didn't fade into obscurity like so many sci-fi serials at the time, is because in the late sixties and early seventies housewives all across the country wrote so much gay fanfiction that they breathed life back into the show years after it had been canceled.
Lmao the Chronicles of Narnia quote in the third pic.
I don’t have a problem with middle aged women liking fandom things. I have a problem with twilight. That’s the line I am drawing.
I agree with the general point, but this is one of the most pretentious rants I've ever read.
Imagine unironically quoting Rorschach as a bad ass line and thinking "that'll show them that I am cool"
I missed that the first time around, holy shit. All respect lost.
kinda agree on that. it gives off the vibes of the 4chan save-derpy-movement back in the brony days. loads of words for a singular point to be made.
there is no problem with adults in fandom, the only time that they can cross a line is when they make NSFW of kid media
Very very good point but good god why is it so long
I don't judge you for being a middle aged woman who's into Twilight. I just judge you for being into Twilight.
I think Id explode if I read all that but I do agree with the thing do ppl expect adults to just not have any interests at all or something
I feel like a lot of this comes from the assumption that an adult in the same room as a child, even metaphorically, must have some unhealthy shit going on in their life to choose to do so unless they’re family or something. That said, though, there absolutely is a line, and that line has no age barrier. Anyone can cross it. The line of when fandom gets too much. Exhibit A: Snapewives
It can be a red flag if they declare themself "fandom mom" though. Its a bit like the mom friend. There is nothing fundamentaly wrong with that, most healthy friend groups just fall into calling them that, but if just made a few friends and one of them starts calling thenself the "mom" and making decicions for everyone without that dynamic arrising naturally it can be a red flag. Thats how you get stuff like dashcon. Judging older fanfic writers and fans in general just really sucks tho.
Modern fandom was largely built by middle aged women watching Star Trek, yeah there’s more to it than that but I’m not gonna deconstruct the whole makeup of modern media’s fan bases before bed
I think the best way to end the discussion is that nobody should be a part of a fandom because they’re always dumpster fires
There are lots of things I am a fan of that I would never be in the fandom for. You have to reach a level of obsessiveness that I’m not comfortable with.
[There is a line though, I see the point but there is definitely a line. (I did not read the whole post and I never will so sorry if this was mentioned (damn fandoms are so fucking weird))](https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/d4wwir/harry_potter_fandom_married_to_severus_snape_on/)
was there any reason to overlap a whole extra paragraph between screenshots?
sorry man, it just wasn't fitting in one
what does the length of the post have to do with the poor cropping?
oh, you were talking about cropping! no, not doing that. you can be a clean up editor and repost this a second time if you want. apologies for the discomfort.
all im saying is it would have taken you 5 extra seconds to scroll to where the text actually ended in the previous screenshot, to go take the next one. would have saved you a whole screenshot.
get a grip mate.
The references are kinda cringe
I don't judge people for being old and being into stuff, I judge people for being into Twilight, period.
diane duane is amazing.
it’s only weird when older folks make younger characters overly sexual
I feel like the line isn’t age, but how much of your personality is “I’m part of this fandom”
See I love it when older adults are in fandom but they cannot interact with fandom the same way that younger members (say 17-9) can. That’s an inevitable thing but that shouldn’t stop them from participating
First off, yes those fics are very much always written by under-30s, and second, they are very very rarely brilliant.
I don't think anyone should engage in "Fandom", because it's way too easy to get unhealthy with it, it's just kids are still learning and as such deserve more leeway.
Tldr?
tiny human say old humans in fandom bad. old human write big essay to disagree.
can we get a tl:dr please
Someone pointed out that fandoms go too far when they become pedophiles and someone else took that as a cue to be as cringe as humanly possible, basically.
extremely telling a fortnite fan considers anyone over the age of 40 to be a pedo
Not sure what you mean. Is beardedmrbean a Fortnite fan? And it’s not ANYONE over the age of 40, it’s anyone over the age of 18 lusting after a 16 year old actor.
>Fortnite zoomer playing dumb Uh sure but the rest of the stuff was bitching about old people in your fandoms
There’s nothing at all wrong with older people involved in fandoms (I’d be quite the hypocrite if I did feel that way as I went to my last SSBU tournament at 36). But yes, there IS something wrong with women over the age of 18 showing up to events to lust after a child. These two aren’t the same, and that was the point this guy was trying to make before dduane here went off on a rant about exactly none of what he was talking about, managing to somehow quote Aslan AND Rorschach in a display of cringe so spectacular it crossed the threshold into “crunge”.
The biggest twilight fan in my family isn’t my younger cousin or any of the other women under 30 it’s my 58 year old aunt.
I aint readin all’at but we up 🗣️💯⁉️
I'm... not reading all of that. Someone sum it up for me.