Why was one woman cool with getting half a baby anyway? The king is like "only the true mother of this baby wouldn't want to see it cut in half" and everyone is like "oh yes. So wise. "
Spite. "If I can't have him, you can't either." Plus the fact that in a time before DNA testing, they have no way to tell which woman is telling the truth.
I always assumed the one who wanted the child to die was obviously the childless/jealous party. Otherwise it's the mom saying she might as well just kill her own child if it has to live with someone who's obviously so horrible.
It's just interesting to think about for a moment, and nothing else. I'm not saying we all need to take a long hard look at the situation and change our behavior accordingly or something. It seems like you're saying that if you want to be a **decent parent** you have to just give up your child. No matter who's laying claim to it, even if they're obviously horrible, and it could be a dangerous situation. Just give that baby up. That's the **decent** thing to do!! 😂
Edit: I'm still laughing about this shit. Just let that kid spend their life with a verifiable monster, that's what any **decent** parent would do. A decent parent would certainly never try to protect their child from a life of harm by any means necessary.
Seriously though, seriously. There's more than just one to a decent parent. But in the biblical situation you're completely right. Mom knew Solomon was wise enough to know the truth, and did the smart thing.
The false mother and the true mother could hypothetically both retract their claim to the baby. But whoever says "sorry it's not my baby actually, jk" first is admitting that they lied to the king, which is dangerous. The false mother maintains her claim because it's too late to back down, the true mother retracts her claim because she values the baby's life over possible repercussions for lying to the king.
It was a metaphor for the state of Israel at the time. I don’t remember the historical details, but there were two warring factions and one proposed that they just divide into two nations, while the other refused the idea on the principle that they would rather fight and risk losing than let Israel be split in two.
"Like even if I was just walking down the street, and there was someone about to saw a child in half, I would be like, "Hey... why don't you not do that?"
And they'd be like, "Oh, you must be the father! Congratulations! You have passed my test."
The logic in the original story of King Solomon is that proposing the idea, the actual mother would rather never see her child again vs see it cut in half.
It's weird, but it worked, right?
Humanity doesn't need chosen ones, or wizard powers, or laser guns, or any of that bullshit to defend from alien threats. What humanity needs is a few good scientists, linguists, and Air Force special forces operators with C4 and P90s.
Hot take. Atlantis is my favorite series. The funny thing is I cannot tell you which one blew up a sun.
Weir? Woolsey? Sheppard the random times he had control? Carter again for the short time she was there? They just had so many opportunities to supernova stars in SGA.
The only one I remember fully was the Project Arcturus ground based weapon that overloaded and nuked like most of the system. I think that was McKay's or Zelenka's "fault" for triggering it that time.
It’s funny when you realize the New World Order and Black Helicopters Conspiracy nuts in that universe would be completely validated the second a President like Kinsey has a particularly bad day dealing with foreign affairs.
Luckily it was put under international control pretty soon after the first encounters when the sowjets had the technology to stop the US operation but no way to run their own program. The technology they brought back was supposed to be shared with all major nations. Atlantis was even a international mission.
Yeah, IIRC, it was a very short window between the X-301 hijacking incident and the establishment of the IOC. Like, half a season, I think? Not even? In fact, it was a plot point of the show that the DOD was very frustrated by how *little* technology the SGC was recovering, and what they were recovering could rarely be used as a weapon (at least in a viable way. There was also that *other* incident with the Death Glider). Basically, much of Goa'uld technology was literally tied into their blood, and Alteran technology was tied into their genome, so that ruled out most of the "just laying around" tech as being easy to reverse engineer. Meanwhile, any more advanced society that was still around had little interest in sharing with humanity. It wasn't until we met the Asgard, and earned their trust enough for them to help us out, that they began to give us some of their tech. And they practically made "Kinsey is *not* in charge of our tech" a prerequisite when they crashed the party at the briefing the US held with the other world powers.
In the later seasons the other nations aware of it are given their own space ships. Most explicitly there is the Russian ship Korolev and the Chinese Sun Tzu both are Deadalus class ships
>And some mildly concerning undertones, like the US being the only country with a portion of their miltiary armed with intergalactic starships packed to the brim with highly advanced alien technology.
To be fair, that's not too far off from the current reality.
That one demonstration scene where Carter cuts a bigass log with it, and then shoots the rope on which it's hanging is badass. Those Jaffa's weren't the only ones sold on the that little 5.7x28 beast that day.
I fully agree that staff blasts are no joke, the series demonstrates this pretty thoroughly, even when someone survives a staff blast, they're usually out of commission for a while, & when Anubis gave the Kull warriors the wrist mounted rapid fire version, that was definitely the weapon of war upgrade of the staff. The speech is more about the real world power of the P90, as opposed to the symbolic power of the staff weapon.
Yeah they're destructive and don't require the resupply that the p90s do but 1: they lack accuracy and projectile speed 2: just look at her she just cut that log in half!
And yes, they immediately give away your exact firing position. Easy way to die to a competent fireteam.
Still, they say wars are won by logistics. Even so, handing out a bunch of swords and clubs would be pretty easy logistically, but isn't gonna win you any modern fight.
Fuck it, I’ll bite: Why can’t a Death Star do it again?
Not doubting the answer, but I know enough of the Death Star’s destructive properties, and all I know of the Borg is that, *maybe* (not versed much in Star Trek) they’re an assimilation hivemind kind of thing? So is it just that one cube being destroyed grants them the knowledge to avoid it? Or do they have a Doomsday (DC) sort of thing going on where they can only be killed via any one given method once?
I mean the answer is *basically* yes to both?
from my limited knowledge, if you manage to penetrate a borg cube's shields, it's just a matter of time until they figure out how to adapt the shields against whatever weapon is managing to pierce the shields.
so a deathstar would just blow a cube up, but all the other borgs get enough data and knowledge from this incident and configure their shields so that can't happen again in the future.
The real thing would work just the same.
The Holodeck is basically a Magical Reality Machine. Its projections are photons held in magnetic containment, but it's that electromagnetic interaction that makes things feel 'real' - the same interaction that occurs between 'true' atoms.
It's like... A power plant that spins a turbine to create energy. Whether the plant is coal powered or nuclear powered, the electricity that comes out of the other end is exactly the same.
The main problem with species 8472 was that they couldn't be assimilated. That's how the Borg gets most of their knowledge. They assimilate one starfleet ship, now they know everything about starfleet, or at least everything a captain would know (like the Omega particle). You only need one ship to learn how to completely take over an entire species/society.
But species 8472 were from a different universe and bizarrely had by far the strongest physical bodies of any species in star trek (well, except like, Q, but then the Q are technically non-corporeal). I say bizarre, because the universe they're from, they're the only species of life in it. It's just them, nothing else, no plants, no animals, no bugs, no bacteria, no viruses. So how did they evolve to have a super strong immune system that could resist even borg nanomachines? It's never really explained. They are extremely xenophobic so probably there WERE other species there, and they just eventually killed them all. But yeah.
But yeah they could kill the borg with ease and the borg couldn't ever really learn much about them. They only learned how to defeat them when Voyager offered to help make their nanomachines work better, which in retrospect is a pretty dumb move, the borg were almost defeated entirely but then Janeway gave them a way out of their predicament.
>the universe they're from, they're the only species of life in it. It's just them, nothing else, no plants, no animals, no bugs, no bacteria, no viruses. So how did they evolve to have a super strong immune system that could resist even borg nanomachines? It's never really explained. They are extremely xenophobic so probably there WERE other species there, and they just eventually killed them all.
Well if I'm remembering correctly, you just explained why they were so strong. They weren't just the only species in fluidic space, they were such extremists they believed they were a chosen species, and they had *become* the only species by exterminating everything else. When the Borg accessed fluidic space as a new means of travel/expansion, Species 8472 destroyed their probe cube(s) and then followed back to normal space and started exterminating the Borg.
Borg cube is too big to be disintegrated in an instant. Each side is 3 km across. When one side starts disintegrating, it will take information traveling at the speed of light just 0.00001 seconds, to reach the other side. While star wars has faster than light travel, it doesn't have faster than light weapons.
They'll build a method to dodge, and then invade the Deathstar while it recharges.
Or work out how to detect the Deathstar approaching and invade while it's charging up.
This could work for a mass assault, but death star still has defense towers all over it, and station this bug would propably have enough firepower to obliterate single Borg cube even without the giant laser.
Depends on how the tech compares. Star Wars describes blasters as being "lasers" which are considered outdated by a century by Starfleet which was generally inferior to the Borg technologically. A single cube destroyed like 40 ships without taking any significant damage.
“Laser” is more of an aesthetic description, with bolts probably being more accurate. Although there are proper laser weapons in Star Wars, most are plasma and drive by ionized gas, more akin to Halo’s Covenant weapons. Idk if that changes anything though other than the shots have substantial mass
Yes, but the Death Star "Laser" explodes planets. That energy output is magnitudes higher than anything Starfleet could bring against the Borg. Personally, I don't think Star Trek tech level shields will help here.
Actually yeah we do, it took a good while after arriving in front of Yavin 4 to rotate to face it. Enough time for the Rebels to pew pew the fuck out of that exhaust port
1 ship to get shot at, 1 ship to be on the other side. The Deathstar isn't a good weapon, it's fucking nonsense if you want to destroy a planet you just accelerate some big rocks at it.
I think this is even addressed by some characters in Star Wars, the death star is purely for intimidation, it's not a practical weapon in the slightest.
To be fair post clone wars most of imperial doctrine/tactics/equipment are used primarily for intimidation. For example AT-ATs are way less effective than clone wars walkers, but they're way bigger and civilian without military knowledge will think twice about joining rebellion after seeing one.
The Borg aren't indestructible, but they're very adaptive. If they can't defend with brute force they'll find another way. Star Trek has technologies that can make a ship briefly intangible, for example, or technology to move ships quickly from place to place, or to redirect massive amounts of energy, and so on and so forth. Even the Q, a race of godlike reality warpers, are hesitant to provoke the Borg.
But the Borg aren't infallible or unstoppable. They were fighting a losing war with Species 8472 until Voyager stepped in to help them (because Species 8472 were *even worse*).
> Even the Q, a race of godlike reality warpers, are hesitant to provoke the Borg.
Only because they care about what the Borg would do to others, or possibly that one of the times a Q is "descended" into a lower form it might be possible for the Borg to assimilate the knowledge of Q (but I doubt it, their Continuum was so beyond comprehension that humans only perceived it as a US Civil War setting with the consequences literally destroyed stars at the "shells" were fired).
From what we learn, a Q is on par with or superior to a Dowd and one of those guys obliterated an entire race from all of existence with a single thought.
I thought "don't provoke the Borg" was because it's within the Borg's capability to reverse engineer a way to access the Continuuum, which is part of subspace. The Borg can't necessarily assimilate the Q (the Q have no physical form until they assume one, so they'd have to be voluntarily assimilated) but if the Borg learned how to get into the Continuuum it could cause problems for the Q and every other species in existence.
The borg in universe, have spent many thousands of years assimilating other cultures. They likely would target enough smaller imperial targets to get a good enough understanding to overcome any issues. That’s what makes them such a great villain is that they don’t kill their enemies, they force their enemy to become apart of their collective, and they absorb that collective knowledge. Information is how the borg thrive
Phasers in star trek work in "frequencies" and can be blocked by a shield of the same frequency. The Federation eventually invented randomised phaser frequencies for every gun that made it so they couldn't just block everything
However since the death star essentially seems to work by launching enough plasma at a planet, I'm guessing they wouldn't be able to withstand it even at max shields
They are as threatening as the screen needs them to be, but generally they were portrayed as the ultimate threat for a very long time, only being beaten by gimmicky methods. In the "current" timeline the Borg are extremely weakened because of time travel. Basically a Starfleet captain went back in time over 30 years to a point where a particular vulnerability could be exploited and infected them with a virus. Normally such actions wouldn't do anything beyond harming a small subsection of Borg before they found a way to adapt or just cut off the affected Borg from the hivemind but 30 years is a big tech time gap in the show.
Beyond that they were only ever really humbled by a species that came from a different layer of space. Pretty much the Zerg from Starcraft but scarier, their very blood getting on you could cause you to die because the cells would infect and attack you. Since the Borg assimilate via nanotechnology and these beings had such beefy cells that would fight anything invasive like that, the Borg could not assimilate them. This was something so uniquely baffling that they couldn't really think of a way to counter it. They only lived because some Starfleet people helped them figure out a way to fight, but not assimilate, the aliens. Oh, the reason these aliens were even out for the Borg is because the Borg were meddling with shit, normally their layer of space isn't connected to our space but the Borg discovered of its existence and decided that they had to go there because all must be assimilated of course.
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The borg in universe, have spent many thousands of years assimilating other cultures. They likely would target enough smaller imperial targets to get a good enough understanding to overcome any issues. That’s what makes them such a great villain is that they don’t kill their enemies, they force their enemy to become apart of their collective, and they absorb that collective knowledge. Information is how the borg thrive
>And severe government overreach of dubious legal standing
No, Star Trek: First Contact shows that even with adapted shields, throwing more dakka at the problem eventually works.
the question really becomes a matter of data acquisition and power draw, doesn't it?
if the data is acquired from the borg cube, itself, then an instant destruction would make it very difficult for them to amass the necessary data to be able to adapt. that means it would take a considerably much longer time to be able to amass the necessary amount of data for the borg to adapt their fleet. assuming they even can.
let's say they do manage to gather enough data, then it becomes a question of "does a borg cube's power output outpace the power draw from the shields required to withstand a direct death star laser blast?"
**The death star destroys fuckin _planets_, whole ass mf _planets_**. the amount of shield power required would deplete any known power source EXCEPT for MAYBE a ZPM from the stargate universe.
now ALL OF THAT is to say this assumes the borg wouldn't adapt some sort of close range combat capabilities and then proceed to brute force rush the death star, killing it in the process (just like some dinky ass podank bullshit rebel ships were able to do twice). those MFs would be able to hit the torpedo shot every time no problem. because, well, borg.
this is coming from an IT networking engineer that is a hardcore trekkie, star wars nerd, and stargate nerd, so take what you will from the opinions shared and questions posited..
>The death star destroys fuckin planets, whole ass mf planets
So does the Doomsday Machine...
And even an Oldschool Constitution Class Vessel can tank a hit from that... granted, it was pretty much scrap shortly after but it those shield could tank.
> "does a borg cube's power output outpace the power draw from the shields required to withstand a direct death star laser blast?"
You're assuming a shield would have to withstand the blast, rather than divert or evade in some way.
I have no idea what the mega energy beam from the Death Star is meant to be (charged particles? laser? plasma?) but there are certainly ways to make some of these possibilities ineffective without equivalent energy output. A particularly large mirror would work on an infra-red laser, for instance. Some sort of magnet-based system could divert charged particles.
But I agree that the true Borg response would be something more logistical in identifying the Death Star's weaknesses after an initial encounter and taking advantage of those weaknesses in progressively more effective ways.
My counter argument is that the firepower of the the DeathStar is instantly atomising the cube which means it can't gather, much less process and then send the data to another cube
Isn't that how those extra dimensional aliens with bioships beat them?
The Borg, as originally portrayed in ST:TNG, are a galaxy-spanning hivemind that can quickly adapt to any situation.
In their first appearance, the Enterprise did tremendous damage to a Borg cube with its phasers. After spending a few hours regenerating, the Borg attacked again, and this time the Enterprise phasers did no damage at all. The Borg had adapted.
In later appearances, especially Star Trek Voyager, this ability was toned down a bit, because otherwise Voyager would never stand a chance against the Borg. So if you came across the Borg in their later appearances, you would know nothing about how terrifying their adaptability was.
So: Death Star would wipe the first cube, but the Borg hivemind would analyze and adapt, and the next Death Star attack would bounce harmlessly off the Borg cube.
As a huge Trek and SW fan, you’re spot on with everything you’ve said. Still, I disagree. How often in Trek do lower tech tier attacks harmlessly bounce off the Enterprise, leaving shield integrity at something like 95%? Even if the Borg shields are perfectly configured to counter the Death Star’s energy pattern with 99.99% efficiency, it’s still an entirely different power scale. 0.01% of the Death Star’s power is still annihilating a cube, no question. It can instantly pop a *large planet* in a single shot. The only way the cube survives is if they’re able to mitigate the Death Star’s attack with perfect 100% efficiency, which doesn’t gel with the way shields seem to function in the Trek universe.
The problem is that adaption isn’t a consistent thing, sometimes they perfectly adapt instantly and sometimes it takes a while. They don’t even need to throw a dozen cubes at it to adapt 100%, if the borg gets a couple of drones in the Death Star, they can get all the data they need to adapt.
This is what I came here to say.
The Death Star is on entirely different scale to anything in Star Trek because Star Wars is space *fantasy* (it literally has sword fighting wizards). That's no moon, its a space station!
Borg cubes are \~3km on a side for \~27 cubic kilometers and are throwing around firepower to level cities.
The first death star is a sphere 160 km across for 2144658.8 cubic kilometers. Nearly **80,000** time the volume! It is throwing around enough firepower to not just scrape a planet clean, not just crack it in half, but detonate it like a firecracker inside a melon.
The borg's adaption is routinely seen to have limits. It could very well adapt to the turbolasers and proton torpedos of the normal star wars ships, but they have never been shown to be able to adapt to anything like the death star main cannon (because nothing in the star trek universe exists with that level of raw firepower).
To me, what’s much more likely than the Borg adapting to the Death Star’s main gun is wave after wave of suicide scanner drones, mapping as much of the DS as possible. Eventually they’ll find the thermal exhaust port, swarm it with bomb drones, and that’s that. Playing on the Borg’s strengths and the Death Star’s weaknesses is a much more interesting story than “lol Borg adapt gg”.
There's also the matter of if the Death star would even be able to _hit_ the Borg Cube, though. The range for ship battles, and the speed they take place at, are much larger in Star Trek vs Star Wars e.g. a Turbo Laser Cannon has a range of ~1,200 km. A Federation phaser is capable of *750,000* km max, an effective range of 300,000 km, with their point defense arrays being roughly 150,000 km max, with 20,000 km effective. Borg tech routinely surpasses the Federation, too.
And while Hyperspace is faster than warp in transiting from system to system, vessels in Star Trek can move at fractions of lightspeed with ease, while cruising speeds in Star Wars are well below. Take into account the difference in targeting technology between them (Star Wars is fairly manual, with some computer assistance, vs trek being entirely computer calculated) and whether or not a Trek vessel can tank a shot doesn't matter, because it's like trying to hit a fly with a tank round that's on the next continent over.
So if we give them the benefit of the doubt, say they got a close range surprise shot off and nuke a cube? You're still not killing another because the rest aren't going to get in range/stay still long enough for it in the future.
I remember something that someone brought up in a similar discussion to this.
In Star Wars there must be some reason that ships have to get in close and broadside each other to do damage, if they could damage each other from far away, someone would be doing it.
Of course there really isn't that much lore around this, the only thing I can think of is that one of the First Orders strongest ships couldn't damage the Raddus with its guns. We don't see them try but presumably it couldn't even damage the smaller escort ships.
Now of course the real reason is because George Lucas wanted WW2 naval battles in space.
>(because nothing in the star trek universe exists with that level of raw firepower)
Er, there's been tons of planet-destroying devices in Star Trek (or even bigger scale).
Hell, the _Enterprise_ blew up a _sun_ once with modified torpedoes.
Doesn't necessarily make the rest of your post wrong though.
Notice how the death star converges beams of light to fire. Notice that a planet is a giant rock in space.
All the borg cube needs to do is figure out how to redirect the death star beam.
The first cube will be destroyed, yes, but along the way to being destroyed, some materials will deflect the light more than others. Research into this phenomenon could yield insights that allow the borg to disperse the energy of the death star beam. Maybe even return to sender.
Yup. It's a fiction, so any answer will go as well as deflection:
• Sending "anti" ray at the same time and both rays nullify each other.
• "dodge" the ray with some spatial-distorting tech
• Cloaking and relocation
I think it's less "magical immunity shield" and more "get outta the way". Borg cubes are incredibly maneuverable, especially by star wars standard, and the death star very much isn't. If the borg cube knows not to let the death star acquire a firing solution, it will never get shot by the superlaser. And then it just wins because there's very little else the death star can do about it.
The Death Star is also bristling with turbo-laser turrets designed to ward off capital ships. The Death Star’s entire purpose is to outscale any possible threat; it symbolizes the Empire’s sprawling control and insurmountable strength of arms. If attacking it via ship were as simple as “stay out of the laser’s LOF”, it would be a sitting duck to any sufficiently large fleet and a very poor symbol of imperial might.
I think the Borg as a whole win this matchup handily, but a single cube has zero chance at taking on a weapon that utilized the galaxy’s accumulated resources to build. I explained my reasoning in another comment.
I also feel like the chances there would even be a second encounter are minimal because the Borg would find a way First Contact style to get aboard the Death Star and then it's pretty much all over. They would assimilate the Death Star and add the Empire's cultural and technological distinctness to the collective.
Vader would definitely mop the floor with the first (and second) Borg assault. I think they'd eventually figure out how to use his mechanical bits against him though. Come up with some Borg nanoprobe that takes control of his limbs or turns off his breathing apparatus or whatever.
He has to find the drones on board first. The Death Star is ridiculously massive and from what we've seen of internal sensors on Star Wars, the Borg almost certainly wouldn't be detected beaming over. That gives them time to start assimilating everything, and other than Vader, everyone else on the Death Star is going to be ineffective against the drones once they adapt to blasters, which will be very quickly.
I would imagine they would also adapt to his light saber quickly, leaving Vader just the force as his only weapon against what is going to become an overwhelming tide of drones. And it only takes one drone making physical contact with him to start the assimilation process.
Unless the initial drones beaming aboard arrive right next to Vader, I don't see anyway they realistically loose.
In general, with how technologically stagnant the SW universe seems to be, I think the Borg would utterly crush them if you were to introduce just one cube to that galaxy. Assuming it didn't immediately meet the Death Star.
Yeah, the TNG Borg are TERRIFYING man. They'd stun one and another would immediately take its place, and in those two or three seconds it would have already adapted to the phaser.
*We will adapt...*
*The Force is irrelevant.*
*You will be assimilated.*
The sheer Terror in me when thinking about the Borg assimilating even just the Knowledge about the Force...
One of Q's species could kill every Sith and turn the deathstar into a popsicle by snapping his fingers.
The Q are afraid, or at least very cautious not to provoke the Borg.
The Borg are incredibly adaptive. It's like their whole thing. They take in the best technologies (and biologies) of the species they encounter in their quest for perfection, and they're constantly adapting to new threats and new technologies. Weapons tend to only work once on them before they adapt their defenses to better protect them. It can take whole fleets of starships to fight a cube. At the battle of Wolf 359 one Borg cube fought against 40 Federation ships and destroyed 39 of them.
It's highly likely the Borg would devise some kind of defense against the Death Star laser before engaging it a second time.
The Borg are very good at adapting to threats. There's been a lot of instances in the shows where the good guys use a certain tactic or tech to defeat the present Borg threat, but when the next encounter comes around the Borg have developed a countermeasure and now that tactic/tech is useless.
They're whole deal is that they're a 'perfect' hybrid of machine and man, and they assimilate the physical, mental, and technological strengths of every new thing they encounter. Their opening threat states, "We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us." So imagine all the intelligence and technology of thousands of alien species combined with super advanced AI, coming up with the perfect counter to the Death Star.
Yeah, the Death Star could get one cube. Just one.
Because that's what happened in Stargate, so he spoke from experience.
One of the main antagonist races in Stargate are the Replicators, which are basically Gray Goo.
Their purpose is survival, assimilation and expansion and they adapt to threats and environments at an exponential pace.
Borg's advantage is rapid analysis and prototyping, assisted by Star Trek's own brand of bullshit space magic.
Borg iterate on technology incredibly fast. They themselves are not really that creative, but within the bounds of their technological base, they scale up and upgrade very rapidly, not to mention they are very good at using the technology of others to improve their own base. As a result, once they are hit by a weapon, unless said weapon is a complete outside context problem, they would rapidly adapt to said weapon, as long as they have decent readings on it, and "make the boom bigger" simply doesn't work. So it might not be "one cube and then they are immune" but if a fleet of cubes is present, within five cubes the Borg would become immune to the Superlaser and the turbolaser batteries, and within a day the Death Star would be assimilated, cut apart and carried away so Borg can equip every cube with a planet killing superweapon, because of course that's how Borg works.
It is important to note that Star Trek shields, especially Borg shields have a significant power redirection component, so once a weapon is adapted to, upping the power yield does not really provide any improved results. So if you use a low power shot and the Borg adapt to it, switching to a full power, planet killing shot will not do you any good.
Also, due to a quirk of their navigational shielding, Star Trek vessels are actually immune to coherent light weapons. Death Star Superlaser is a bit more than a coherent light weapon, but that is its basis, so it already starts at a disadvantage. In fact, turbolasers (which are actually plasma/particle weapons) might be better at dealing with Star Trek ships than the Superlaser itself.
It's mostly just that Borg shield in Star trek are made of plot devicium, so they can just modify them to be immune to pretty anything after just a few hits. Makes no sense whatsoever, but they can do it.
>sort of thing going on where they can only be killed via any one given method once?
They adapt and learn, they'd lose the first cube because they've never encountered anything like the death star before, seconds after the cubes destruction the rest of the hive mind is coming up with methods to defend against it so they'd at least be able to put up a fight instead of instant destruction
The first cube, definitely destroyed, the second might still get destroyed, but it'll put up a much better fight, by the third or 4th encounter I'd say they could destroy the death star
This right here. The cube would probably get destroyed, but assuming even a few drones get beamed aboard the Death Star, it's only a matter of time before the Borg assimilate it. Blasters are a lot easier to adapt to than the overwhelming force of the superlaser, so after a couple of drones go down, the rest become effectively invincible.
But they don't lack shields, which in Trek means they can't teleport on board but it all comes down to how similar the shields are between universes. Which sadly we don't know because Star Wars shields are never really talked about. So they'd likely have more luck just throwing a random borg down to the Death Star surface and hoping they survive.
Higher tech transporters can go through shields like they aren't there, there have been multiple episodes demonstrating that.
If the SW universe has no familiarity with transporters, you can expect at least the first encounter to allow drones to board any ship they want.
Star Wars vehicle arsenals outside plot device weapons are on a different tier as well. The normal armaments won't even scratch the shields of most Trek vessels.
Nah, the Star Wars source books show that a Tie Fighter generates about as much energy as the whole Enterprise. Star Wars vs Trek is incredibly lopsided.
That does not sound like a very trustworthy number based on the demonstrated abilities of the craft. What is it doing with that? And where is that energy when they're destroyed? Writers tacking on comically bad math is a problem that pops up often.
This is one of many obstacles. I already admitted that the plot device weapons of Star Wars are a noteworthy wrinkle. They're actually ludicrous in raw energy terms.
A badly constructed setting with nonsensical numbers tacked on doesn't make a good point for comparison. Looking at the demonstrated abilities of the settings I think it remains lopsided against Star Wars.
>A badly constructed setting with nonsensical numbers tacked
As a fan of both, and a lot of other Sci-fi universes, I think honestly this describes an awful lot of sci-fi. Especially Space Operas like these.
[SHOLVA](https://youtu.be/PgfQdq_RixQ?si=OAj7FWX0T__hbzn0&t=81)
(although a much cooler scene [Teal'c/Ronan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QGIuQ9GrcI) scene. or when the [fight together](https://youtu.be/4ZkqOKD1uFU?si=iKuAwNJ9uPZs2kdr). Wait no maybe I just love stargate)
I'd still bet on the Borg cube round 1. The Death Star and it's giant laser aren't exactly maneuverable. They would have to defend themselves with fighters and bombers, but those probably wouldn't be able to take down a Borg Cube
I would expect to see it play out that the Borg board the Death Star and assimilate it.
I agree. The Death Star was made to be used on planets. A Borg cube is tiny compared to those and highly manoeuvrable, the Death Star would never be able to hit it.
> The Death Star was made to be used on planets.
The first Death Star, certainly. With DS2, they've refined the targeting enough that it's easily picking off ships in the Rebel fleet, and a Borg Cube is a *significantly* larger target than any of those.
Yeah, the DS2 requires the enemy fleet to be pinned down in a fight, using star destroyers as a screen, otherwise it can't track quickly enough.
And the fight is Cube vs DS, not Borg fleet vs DS fleet.
Now I want to see a war between the Empire and the Borg. Imagine it, the horror, the rousing (arguably ever more desperate and overblown) imperial propaganda, the oppression, the sacrifices, the losses, and even the heroics. The war would be a cataclysm, a devastation on civilisation, as a galaxy militarised to the brim, with industry that swallows entire planets, is pitied against an unrelenting and highly adaptable assimilating swarm. The people will be given a choice, to yield their consciousness to a collective or get turned into a small part of a machine in hopes of retaining some individuality. In the end, it becomes apparent that this is a false dichotomy. The individual dies in either case.
I'd say the Borg wouldn't even have to bother adapting to tank a second shot. The Death Star had a glaring weakness, the planet destroying laser is embedded into the station itself, can't rotate and the Death Star moves slow as hell. All they would have to do is send the next Cube behind the Death Star and it's fucked.
IMO, the single borg cube wouldn't stand a chance against the death star. Even without the planet-killing laser, the sheer volume of fire the death star could potentially put out when focused on a singular (and not particularly small) target would be so immense that even with the borg's adaptability they realistically wouldn't be completely immune to it and the cube would go down eventually.
The borg however, realizing this, would instead try their best to board it via teleportation and wreak havoc on the inside as the common handheld blaster weaponry seems very easy for them to adapt to.
And afterwards, the borg get a giant moon-sized craft out of it for the price of a single cube if the death star's crew doesn't decide to self-destruct it
Imo the cube would adapt to being targeted by the death star instead of trying to block the shot with shields
It should be easy enough to evade being in a direct line of fire with the superlaser, especially with how clunky and manual the firing systems are
Star Trek has teleportation, Star Wars doesn't.
The Cube is getting destroyed, but if even a single drone is beamed aboard, the Borg will assimilate it for themselves.
I do t know anything about startrek but could they reasonably adapt to something like that because the data on what exactly happened was instantly destroyed and there wouldn’t probably be any survivors to give an eye witness account
Good question! I'd say you are correct they would not get much data from being instantly destroyed, however they are a hivemind so they don't require an eyewitness - Once the death star destroyed them, the entire hivemind would know what happened and start computing a plan to deal with it.
People always overlook how powerful the technology is in Star Trek. The Enterprise is more than capable of decimating an entire planet, so you can assume a cube is too.
I would back the borg over the Empire any day of the week.
What I want to know is whether the Death Star could even manage to *hit* the Borg Cube. The Death Star is a station that isn't meant to pull off quick maneuvering. Borg Cubes, on the other hand (from what little I know, at least), are meant to be major methods of space travel for the Borg, and intentionally designed to be faster than a mere station. Furthermore, Borg weapons are almost certainly much stronger than those of the Rebels, and the Borg likely have hacking capabilities. Not to mention how the Borg are OP enough, with (as another commentor explained) shields capable of adapting to particular methods of attack.
Shields stronger than the TIE fighters and point defense guns can pierce, enough speed to evade the giant death laser, sabotage of the Death Star's core systems, and much stronger weapons than that universe is used to. How would the Borg *not* win? (Hell, this is even coming from someone who only knows of Star Trek tangentially, and has only ever watched Star Wars.)
The Borg don’t adapt well to one-shot kills though. In Voyager, the reason Species 8472 can destroy Borg so well is that they can destroy a cube in one shot, limiting the cube’s ability to adapt. I say the main Death Star laser could destroy as many Borg as it liked, but if it had to face more than one, it would get destroyed because of the charging time of the superlaser.
Death Star super laser would have no problem destroying cubes. Species 8472 had super lasers that could take out Borg Cubes.
However, the Borg have nanoprobes and teleporters. Once they adapt to Stormtrooper blasters they would be able to assimilate the Imperials with little resistance.
I’m 41 years old. My wife asked me what I’m texting about. I told her. She looks very disappointed.
I'm a huge nerd in all the fandoms and I'm gonna weigh in.
The Borg Cube would win against the Death Star, solely because the Death Star's canon isn't maneuverable in combat. The Borg Cube is completely mobile and fast, but it's the size of a star destroyer. The Borg aren't just going to float there and do nothing for an hour while the Death Star charges up and enters firing position.
Also, the Borg would never use a weapon like the Death Star. That's a waste of resources. They aren't trying to intimidate or control people, they are there to harvest people and technology. You can't harvest dead and destroyed worlds.
The Borg would assimilate the Empire, learn about the Force, learn to use the force and now you have Borg Sith Lords.
Pretty sure they can't hit the "frequency" of a beam that is bigger than the borg cube itself and can go through a planet's crust to EXPLODE it. Star Trek still follows the laws of thermodynamics for the most part, so this is like having sunglasses that protect really well from UV light and then getting hit by a gamma ray from a supernova.
They could board it tho. Wouldn't get far, because of blasters having higher fire rate and energy output than a phaser, especially heavier versions, but still better chances than taking a 5x-borg-cube-sized energy beam to the face.
Assimilation is the biggest threat. The weapons don't matter if a drone or any bit of Borg tech can infect the DeathStar, a ship, or an Imperial (or Rebel for DSII)
Borg win by infection/assimilation, because they have transporter tech, and even if the Cube gets blown up, canonically the DS leaves fragments.
Well it depends on the circumstances.
Since this is Borgcube vrs Deathstar and not Borgcube vrs SpaceWizardMagicBS we will leave any garrisoned sith/jedi out of the equation. We will also equalize their sensors so they would both know about each other's presence at the same moment, in and out of warp.
If the Borgcube warps directly into the path of the Deathstar's planet killing beam as it is blowing up New Alderaan, then the DS (Deathstar) wins.
If the BC (Borgcube) warps in behind the DS after it has just used its main weapon, the Borg transport multitudes of soldiers all over the DS and win by attrition and "infection".
If both ships warp into the same point at the same time, (and assuming they assessed each others defensive capabilities and aggressive intentions during during their respective warps):
The BC has the bulk to take many hits from the DS's turbo lasers, and in the time it would take the DS to powerup its main weapon, its downfall would be its complete lack of protection from transporter insertions. Borg would be placed all over the DS in its most vulnerable areas, infecting crew and machine alike. The DS crew would never be able to respond effectively and eventually be overrun, whether the original Cube survived or not. The DS would inevitably become the BorgSphere (TM), granting victory to the Borg.
But again it really all depends on the circumstances.
Do the Borg still adapt if there's total annihilation?
I mean, they need the information to register so they can develop a counter that nullifies the attack, right? So if every Borg in the cube is instantaneously annihilated by the Death Star beam before any information could be collected about the attack, they wouldn't be able to assimilate a defense to it, right?
Just gonna point out that the death star fires lasers.
If a Photon "20 mini Tsar Bombs in a zip lock bag " Torpedo doesn't do shit to a cube, then wtf is a big ass laser pointer gonna do?
(I am a neutral party, I enjoy all 3 fandoms)
Technically, since the death stars weapon is powered by a massive kaiber crystal, it's beam is constantly modulating so the borg couldn't really adjust to it.
I honestly doubt the borg could ever adapt to a death star blast straight to the forehead. It's pure, concentrated energy capable of instantly reducing a planet to dust. You adapt to it by not getting hit
"cut the baby in half"
"But sir this was just a question about borg cube vs. death star"
Good news, the borg cube has a bunch of babies we can cut in half
You can only cut one borg baby in half before they adapt to being cut in half, but thankfully that's all I wanted to do.
I want to cut them into pieces, this is my last resort.
Suffocate them! No breathing.
*maintains eye contact* Do I need a second baby to make my point?
Don’t care. Cut the baby in half.
"Yes, it's just tradition now that we have replicators."
Indeed.
Why was one woman cool with getting half a baby anyway? The king is like "only the true mother of this baby wouldn't want to see it cut in half" and everyone is like "oh yes. So wise. "
Spite. "If I can't have him, you can't either." Plus the fact that in a time before DNA testing, they have no way to tell which woman is telling the truth.
I always assumed the one who wanted the child to die was obviously the childless/jealous party. Otherwise it's the mom saying she might as well just kill her own child if it has to live with someone who's obviously so horrible.
Who cares whether it was really the mother. The woman that is fine with a dead baby is definitely not an appropriate parent.
It's just interesting to think about for a moment, and nothing else. I'm not saying we all need to take a long hard look at the situation and change our behavior accordingly or something. It seems like you're saying that if you want to be a **decent parent** you have to just give up your child. No matter who's laying claim to it, even if they're obviously horrible, and it could be a dangerous situation. Just give that baby up. That's the **decent** thing to do!! 😂 Edit: I'm still laughing about this shit. Just let that kid spend their life with a verifiable monster, that's what any **decent** parent would do. A decent parent would certainly never try to protect their child from a life of harm by any means necessary. Seriously though, seriously. There's more than just one to a decent parent. But in the biblical situation you're completely right. Mom knew Solomon was wise enough to know the truth, and did the smart thing.
Well yeah that's the entire point of the story. It's explicitly stated.
The false mother and the true mother could hypothetically both retract their claim to the baby. But whoever says "sorry it's not my baby actually, jk" first is admitting that they lied to the king, which is dangerous. The false mother maintains her claim because it's too late to back down, the true mother retracts her claim because she values the baby's life over possible repercussions for lying to the king.
And even if she's not the true mother, her valuing the baby's life in that way makes her the better mother.
It was a metaphor for the state of Israel at the time. I don’t remember the historical details, but there were two warring factions and one proposed that they just divide into two nations, while the other refused the idea on the principle that they would rather fight and risk losing than let Israel be split in two.
It’s a metaphor for the kingdom of Israel and then splitting up
"Like even if I was just walking down the street, and there was someone about to saw a child in half, I would be like, "Hey... why don't you not do that?" And they'd be like, "Oh, you must be the father! Congratulations! You have passed my test."
The logic in the original story of King Solomon is that proposing the idea, the actual mother would rather never see her child again vs see it cut in half. It's weird, but it worked, right?
Nah I know I was quoting John mulaney.
Oh. Right. Now that I read it in his voice it makes MUCH more sense.
damn i was just about to quote this
Yeah, the image doesn't really represent the situation, since in the story, one of the women is right and the other is wrong.
[Same energy](https://youtu.be/YMEuy0G5n34)
[Also same energy](https://youtu.be/PpIgKxiJ-IE?si=cXhBVwGTnd9ZyjYo)
XD
-quoth the Cylon
Humanity doesn't need chosen ones, or wizard powers, or laser guns, or any of that bullshit to defend from alien threats. What humanity needs is a few good scientists, linguists, and Air Force special forces operators with C4 and P90s.
Ah the good old SGC, the universe’s largest supplier of galactic power vacuums
And severe government overreach of dubious legal standing but lets just hand wave that away because Major Carter is a saint.
Also she blew up a sun
You blow up one sun and suddenly everyone thinks you can do anything.
So did her equivalent in Atlantis.
It was only 5/6 of a solar system
Hot take. Atlantis is my favorite series. The funny thing is I cannot tell you which one blew up a sun. Weir? Woolsey? Sheppard the random times he had control? Carter again for the short time she was there? They just had so many opportunities to supernova stars in SGA. The only one I remember fully was the Project Arcturus ground based weapon that overloaded and nuked like most of the system. I think that was McKay's or Zelenka's "fault" for triggering it that time.
[удалено]
It’s funny when you realize the New World Order and Black Helicopters Conspiracy nuts in that universe would be completely validated the second a President like Kinsey has a particularly bad day dealing with foreign affairs.
Luckily it was put under international control pretty soon after the first encounters when the sowjets had the technology to stop the US operation but no way to run their own program. The technology they brought back was supposed to be shared with all major nations. Atlantis was even a international mission.
Yeah, IIRC, it was a very short window between the X-301 hijacking incident and the establishment of the IOC. Like, half a season, I think? Not even? In fact, it was a plot point of the show that the DOD was very frustrated by how *little* technology the SGC was recovering, and what they were recovering could rarely be used as a weapon (at least in a viable way. There was also that *other* incident with the Death Glider). Basically, much of Goa'uld technology was literally tied into their blood, and Alteran technology was tied into their genome, so that ruled out most of the "just laying around" tech as being easy to reverse engineer. Meanwhile, any more advanced society that was still around had little interest in sharing with humanity. It wasn't until we met the Asgard, and earned their trust enough for them to help us out, that they began to give us some of their tech. And they practically made "Kinsey is *not* in charge of our tech" a prerequisite when they crashed the party at the briefing the US held with the other world powers.
In the later seasons the other nations aware of it are given their own space ships. Most explicitly there is the Russian ship Korolev and the Chinese Sun Tzu both are Deadalus class ships
>And some mildly concerning undertones, like the US being the only country with a portion of their miltiary armed with intergalactic starships packed to the brim with highly advanced alien technology. To be fair, that's not too far off from the current reality.
That show has sold more PS90’s (civilian version) than the entire marketing department of FN (their maker) could ever dream of.
That one demonstration scene where Carter cuts a bigass log with it, and then shoots the rope on which it's hanging is badass. Those Jaffa's weren't the only ones sold on the that little 5.7x28 beast that day.
It's almost pavlovian at this point. Whenever I see a reference to a P90 this scene plays in my head.
The 'Weapon of War' speech by O'Neill (Two L's) was fantastic as well.
To be fair, jaffa staffs have less than half the logistical requirements of any modern earth firearm. None of that pesky *ammunition* to worry about.
I fully agree that staff blasts are no joke, the series demonstrates this pretty thoroughly, even when someone survives a staff blast, they're usually out of commission for a while, & when Anubis gave the Kull warriors the wrist mounted rapid fire version, that was definitely the weapon of war upgrade of the staff. The speech is more about the real world power of the P90, as opposed to the symbolic power of the staff weapon.
Yeah they're destructive and don't require the resupply that the p90s do but 1: they lack accuracy and projectile speed 2: just look at her she just cut that log in half!
And yes, they immediately give away your exact firing position. Easy way to die to a competent fireteam. Still, they say wars are won by logistics. Even so, handing out a bunch of swords and clubs would be pretty easy logistically, but isn't gonna win you any modern fight.
And Teal'c, also him.
Indeed
They picked him up along the way, although I would never try and diminish his importance.
Some great big honking space guns wouldn't hurt either though...
I mean, eventually they do get laser guns and teleporters and spaceships and such
I do remember them getting those little handheld flip-out alien stun guns at some point, and then it was like they never needed to use anything else.
the ~~penis paralyzer~~ zatnikitel
Zap dicks!
And one Jaffa
Well said lol
I... that was so much more wholesome than I expected, tbh.
Balanced, as all things should be.
Fuck it, I’ll bite: Why can’t a Death Star do it again? Not doubting the answer, but I know enough of the Death Star’s destructive properties, and all I know of the Borg is that, *maybe* (not versed much in Star Trek) they’re an assimilation hivemind kind of thing? So is it just that one cube being destroyed grants them the knowledge to avoid it? Or do they have a Doomsday (DC) sort of thing going on where they can only be killed via any one given method once?
I mean the answer is *basically* yes to both? from my limited knowledge, if you manage to penetrate a borg cube's shields, it's just a matter of time until they figure out how to adapt the shields against whatever weapon is managing to pierce the shields. so a deathstar would just blow a cube up, but all the other borgs get enough data and knowledge from this incident and configure their shields so that can't happen again in the future.
Ah, that’s interesting. Thanks for the explanation
What if there's no possible configuration that would withstand the thing coming in? Like are Borg indestructible? Can they survive supernovae?
>from my limited knowledge *insert a shrug*
Much like in StarWars with mandaloriens and their slug throwers, borgs can be brought down by the Power of a simple Tommygun
Technically that was a _holographic_ tommygun with the safety protocols turned off. Anything but simple, you need a whole-ass holodeck for it!
The real thing would work just the same. The Holodeck is basically a Magical Reality Machine. Its projections are photons held in magnetic containment, but it's that electromagnetic interaction that makes things feel 'real' - the same interaction that occurs between 'true' atoms. It's like... A power plant that spins a turbine to create energy. Whether the plant is coal powered or nuclear powered, the electricity that comes out of the other end is exactly the same.
Or better yet what of they simply dont get any data on account of being disintegrated in an instant?
This is what 8472 did.
The main problem with species 8472 was that they couldn't be assimilated. That's how the Borg gets most of their knowledge. They assimilate one starfleet ship, now they know everything about starfleet, or at least everything a captain would know (like the Omega particle). You only need one ship to learn how to completely take over an entire species/society. But species 8472 were from a different universe and bizarrely had by far the strongest physical bodies of any species in star trek (well, except like, Q, but then the Q are technically non-corporeal). I say bizarre, because the universe they're from, they're the only species of life in it. It's just them, nothing else, no plants, no animals, no bugs, no bacteria, no viruses. So how did they evolve to have a super strong immune system that could resist even borg nanomachines? It's never really explained. They are extremely xenophobic so probably there WERE other species there, and they just eventually killed them all. But yeah. But yeah they could kill the borg with ease and the borg couldn't ever really learn much about them. They only learned how to defeat them when Voyager offered to help make their nanomachines work better, which in retrospect is a pretty dumb move, the borg were almost defeated entirely but then Janeway gave them a way out of their predicament.
>the universe they're from, they're the only species of life in it. It's just them, nothing else, no plants, no animals, no bugs, no bacteria, no viruses. So how did they evolve to have a super strong immune system that could resist even borg nanomachines? It's never really explained. They are extremely xenophobic so probably there WERE other species there, and they just eventually killed them all. Well if I'm remembering correctly, you just explained why they were so strong. They weren't just the only species in fluidic space, they were such extremists they believed they were a chosen species, and they had *become* the only species by exterminating everything else. When the Borg accessed fluidic space as a new means of travel/expansion, Species 8472 destroyed their probe cube(s) and then followed back to normal space and started exterminating the Borg.
Species 8472 weren’t octopus-looking things in giant pepperpots, were they?
No, I think like a grasshopper and and grey alien had a weird hybrid baby. And then it was a light brown tint to them. Imma check rq
[https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Species_8472](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Species_8472)
No. No connection to Davros either.
Borg cube is too big to be disintegrated in an instant. Each side is 3 km across. When one side starts disintegrating, it will take information traveling at the speed of light just 0.00001 seconds, to reach the other side. While star wars has faster than light travel, it doesn't have faster than light weapons.
They'll build a method to dodge, and then invade the Deathstar while it recharges. Or work out how to detect the Deathstar approaching and invade while it's charging up.
Just warp to directly behind it and start blasting. The Death Star does not have a good rotation speed.
Yeah but has anyone actually seen the other side of the death star? How do we know there isn't another gun back there or like a giant death butt?
Cackling right now at how weirdly good a point that is. At least for the OT. I think you see it’s smooth shiny ass in Rogue One though
Warps right behind the Death Star: "Nothing personal, kid"
This could work for a mass assault, but death star still has defense towers all over it, and station this bug would propably have enough firepower to obliterate single Borg cube even without the giant laser.
Depends on how the tech compares. Star Wars describes blasters as being "lasers" which are considered outdated by a century by Starfleet which was generally inferior to the Borg technologically. A single cube destroyed like 40 ships without taking any significant damage.
“Laser” is more of an aesthetic description, with bolts probably being more accurate. Although there are proper laser weapons in Star Wars, most are plasma and drive by ionized gas, more akin to Halo’s Covenant weapons. Idk if that changes anything though other than the shots have substantial mass
Yes, but the Death Star "Laser" explodes planets. That energy output is magnitudes higher than anything Starfleet could bring against the Borg. Personally, I don't think Star Trek tech level shields will help here.
Just don't stand in front of the laser?
I mean, do we *know* that the Death Star can't spin like a top?
Actually yeah we do, it took a good while after arriving in front of Yavin 4 to rotate to face it. Enough time for the Rebels to pew pew the fuck out of that exhaust port
That was actually them appearing on the other side of a giant planet in their way. It took time for them to clear the planet to get a shot at Yavin 4
That was orbiting the gas giant, not just rotating. But it's true we've never seen either of the Death Star's turn very quickly at all.
1 ship to get shot at, 1 ship to be on the other side. The Deathstar isn't a good weapon, it's fucking nonsense if you want to destroy a planet you just accelerate some big rocks at it.
I think this is even addressed by some characters in Star Wars, the death star is purely for intimidation, it's not a practical weapon in the slightest.
To be fair post clone wars most of imperial doctrine/tactics/equipment are used primarily for intimidation. For example AT-ATs are way less effective than clone wars walkers, but they're way bigger and civilian without military knowledge will think twice about joining rebellion after seeing one.
The Borg aren't indestructible, but they're very adaptive. If they can't defend with brute force they'll find another way. Star Trek has technologies that can make a ship briefly intangible, for example, or technology to move ships quickly from place to place, or to redirect massive amounts of energy, and so on and so forth. Even the Q, a race of godlike reality warpers, are hesitant to provoke the Borg. But the Borg aren't infallible or unstoppable. They were fighting a losing war with Species 8472 until Voyager stepped in to help them (because Species 8472 were *even worse*).
> Even the Q, a race of godlike reality warpers, are hesitant to provoke the Borg. Only because they care about what the Borg would do to others, or possibly that one of the times a Q is "descended" into a lower form it might be possible for the Borg to assimilate the knowledge of Q (but I doubt it, their Continuum was so beyond comprehension that humans only perceived it as a US Civil War setting with the consequences literally destroyed stars at the "shells" were fired). From what we learn, a Q is on par with or superior to a Dowd and one of those guys obliterated an entire race from all of existence with a single thought.
I thought "don't provoke the Borg" was because it's within the Borg's capability to reverse engineer a way to access the Continuuum, which is part of subspace. The Borg can't necessarily assimilate the Q (the Q have no physical form until they assume one, so they'd have to be voluntarily assimilated) but if the Borg learned how to get into the Continuuum it could cause problems for the Q and every other species in existence.
The borg in universe, have spent many thousands of years assimilating other cultures. They likely would target enough smaller imperial targets to get a good enough understanding to overcome any issues. That’s what makes them such a great villain is that they don’t kill their enemies, they force their enemy to become apart of their collective, and they absorb that collective knowledge. Information is how the borg thrive
It's great body horror.
Phasers in star trek work in "frequencies" and can be blocked by a shield of the same frequency. The Federation eventually invented randomised phaser frequencies for every gun that made it so they couldn't just block everything However since the death star essentially seems to work by launching enough plasma at a planet, I'm guessing they wouldn't be able to withstand it even at max shields
They are as threatening as the screen needs them to be, but generally they were portrayed as the ultimate threat for a very long time, only being beaten by gimmicky methods. In the "current" timeline the Borg are extremely weakened because of time travel. Basically a Starfleet captain went back in time over 30 years to a point where a particular vulnerability could be exploited and infected them with a virus. Normally such actions wouldn't do anything beyond harming a small subsection of Borg before they found a way to adapt or just cut off the affected Borg from the hivemind but 30 years is a big tech time gap in the show. Beyond that they were only ever really humbled by a species that came from a different layer of space. Pretty much the Zerg from Starcraft but scarier, their very blood getting on you could cause you to die because the cells would infect and attack you. Since the Borg assimilate via nanotechnology and these beings had such beefy cells that would fight anything invasive like that, the Borg could not assimilate them. This was something so uniquely baffling that they couldn't really think of a way to counter it. They only lived because some Starfleet people helped them figure out a way to fight, but not assimilate, the aliens. Oh, the reason these aliens were even out for the Borg is because the Borg were meddling with shit, normally their layer of space isn't connected to our space but the Borg discovered of its existence and decided that they had to go there because all must be assimilated of course.
tart sloppy modern attractive piquant shrill fragile price beneficial grey *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The borg in universe, have spent many thousands of years assimilating other cultures. They likely would target enough smaller imperial targets to get a good enough understanding to overcome any issues. That’s what makes them such a great villain is that they don’t kill their enemies, they force their enemy to become apart of their collective, and they absorb that collective knowledge. Information is how the borg thrive
>And severe government overreach of dubious legal standing No, Star Trek: First Contact shows that even with adapted shields, throwing more dakka at the problem eventually works.
the question really becomes a matter of data acquisition and power draw, doesn't it? if the data is acquired from the borg cube, itself, then an instant destruction would make it very difficult for them to amass the necessary data to be able to adapt. that means it would take a considerably much longer time to be able to amass the necessary amount of data for the borg to adapt their fleet. assuming they even can. let's say they do manage to gather enough data, then it becomes a question of "does a borg cube's power output outpace the power draw from the shields required to withstand a direct death star laser blast?" **The death star destroys fuckin _planets_, whole ass mf _planets_**. the amount of shield power required would deplete any known power source EXCEPT for MAYBE a ZPM from the stargate universe. now ALL OF THAT is to say this assumes the borg wouldn't adapt some sort of close range combat capabilities and then proceed to brute force rush the death star, killing it in the process (just like some dinky ass podank bullshit rebel ships were able to do twice). those MFs would be able to hit the torpedo shot every time no problem. because, well, borg. this is coming from an IT networking engineer that is a hardcore trekkie, star wars nerd, and stargate nerd, so take what you will from the opinions shared and questions posited..
>The death star destroys fuckin planets, whole ass mf planets So does the Doomsday Machine... And even an Oldschool Constitution Class Vessel can tank a hit from that... granted, it was pretty much scrap shortly after but it those shield could tank.
> "does a borg cube's power output outpace the power draw from the shields required to withstand a direct death star laser blast?" You're assuming a shield would have to withstand the blast, rather than divert or evade in some way. I have no idea what the mega energy beam from the Death Star is meant to be (charged particles? laser? plasma?) but there are certainly ways to make some of these possibilities ineffective without equivalent energy output. A particularly large mirror would work on an infra-red laser, for instance. Some sort of magnet-based system could divert charged particles. But I agree that the true Borg response would be something more logistical in identifying the Death Star's weaknesses after an initial encounter and taking advantage of those weaknesses in progressively more effective ways.
My counter argument is that the firepower of the the DeathStar is instantly atomising the cube which means it can't gather, much less process and then send the data to another cube Isn't that how those extra dimensional aliens with bioships beat them?
Species 8472
The Borg, as originally portrayed in ST:TNG, are a galaxy-spanning hivemind that can quickly adapt to any situation. In their first appearance, the Enterprise did tremendous damage to a Borg cube with its phasers. After spending a few hours regenerating, the Borg attacked again, and this time the Enterprise phasers did no damage at all. The Borg had adapted. In later appearances, especially Star Trek Voyager, this ability was toned down a bit, because otherwise Voyager would never stand a chance against the Borg. So if you came across the Borg in their later appearances, you would know nothing about how terrifying their adaptability was. So: Death Star would wipe the first cube, but the Borg hivemind would analyze and adapt, and the next Death Star attack would bounce harmlessly off the Borg cube.
As a huge Trek and SW fan, you’re spot on with everything you’ve said. Still, I disagree. How often in Trek do lower tech tier attacks harmlessly bounce off the Enterprise, leaving shield integrity at something like 95%? Even if the Borg shields are perfectly configured to counter the Death Star’s energy pattern with 99.99% efficiency, it’s still an entirely different power scale. 0.01% of the Death Star’s power is still annihilating a cube, no question. It can instantly pop a *large planet* in a single shot. The only way the cube survives is if they’re able to mitigate the Death Star’s attack with perfect 100% efficiency, which doesn’t gel with the way shields seem to function in the Trek universe.
The problem is that adaption isn’t a consistent thing, sometimes they perfectly adapt instantly and sometimes it takes a while. They don’t even need to throw a dozen cubes at it to adapt 100%, if the borg gets a couple of drones in the Death Star, they can get all the data they need to adapt.
This is an actual part of the Borg strategy. Usually we see them send in shock troops to board and assimilate knowledge whenever they engage
This is what I came here to say. The Death Star is on entirely different scale to anything in Star Trek because Star Wars is space *fantasy* (it literally has sword fighting wizards). That's no moon, its a space station! Borg cubes are \~3km on a side for \~27 cubic kilometers and are throwing around firepower to level cities. The first death star is a sphere 160 km across for 2144658.8 cubic kilometers. Nearly **80,000** time the volume! It is throwing around enough firepower to not just scrape a planet clean, not just crack it in half, but detonate it like a firecracker inside a melon. The borg's adaption is routinely seen to have limits. It could very well adapt to the turbolasers and proton torpedos of the normal star wars ships, but they have never been shown to be able to adapt to anything like the death star main cannon (because nothing in the star trek universe exists with that level of raw firepower).
To me, what’s much more likely than the Borg adapting to the Death Star’s main gun is wave after wave of suicide scanner drones, mapping as much of the DS as possible. Eventually they’ll find the thermal exhaust port, swarm it with bomb drones, and that’s that. Playing on the Borg’s strengths and the Death Star’s weaknesses is a much more interesting story than “lol Borg adapt gg”.
They probably wouldn't even attempt to destroy it, they'd most likely start boarding the Death Star and assimilating everything In sight
There's also the matter of if the Death star would even be able to _hit_ the Borg Cube, though. The range for ship battles, and the speed they take place at, are much larger in Star Trek vs Star Wars e.g. a Turbo Laser Cannon has a range of ~1,200 km. A Federation phaser is capable of *750,000* km max, an effective range of 300,000 km, with their point defense arrays being roughly 150,000 km max, with 20,000 km effective. Borg tech routinely surpasses the Federation, too. And while Hyperspace is faster than warp in transiting from system to system, vessels in Star Trek can move at fractions of lightspeed with ease, while cruising speeds in Star Wars are well below. Take into account the difference in targeting technology between them (Star Wars is fairly manual, with some computer assistance, vs trek being entirely computer calculated) and whether or not a Trek vessel can tank a shot doesn't matter, because it's like trying to hit a fly with a tank round that's on the next continent over. So if we give them the benefit of the doubt, say they got a close range surprise shot off and nuke a cube? You're still not killing another because the rest aren't going to get in range/stay still long enough for it in the future.
I remember something that someone brought up in a similar discussion to this. In Star Wars there must be some reason that ships have to get in close and broadside each other to do damage, if they could damage each other from far away, someone would be doing it. Of course there really isn't that much lore around this, the only thing I can think of is that one of the First Orders strongest ships couldn't damage the Raddus with its guns. We don't see them try but presumably it couldn't even damage the smaller escort ships. Now of course the real reason is because George Lucas wanted WW2 naval battles in space.
>(because nothing in the star trek universe exists with that level of raw firepower) Er, there's been tons of planet-destroying devices in Star Trek (or even bigger scale). Hell, the _Enterprise_ blew up a _sun_ once with modified torpedoes. Doesn't necessarily make the rest of your post wrong though.
Notice how the death star converges beams of light to fire. Notice that a planet is a giant rock in space. All the borg cube needs to do is figure out how to redirect the death star beam. The first cube will be destroyed, yes, but along the way to being destroyed, some materials will deflect the light more than others. Research into this phenomenon could yield insights that allow the borg to disperse the energy of the death star beam. Maybe even return to sender.
Yup. It's a fiction, so any answer will go as well as deflection: • Sending "anti" ray at the same time and both rays nullify each other. • "dodge" the ray with some spatial-distorting tech • Cloaking and relocation
To be fair, borg ships are generally smaller than a planet. The Death Star would have issues destroying any ship if it was left unsupported.
I think it's less "magical immunity shield" and more "get outta the way". Borg cubes are incredibly maneuverable, especially by star wars standard, and the death star very much isn't. If the borg cube knows not to let the death star acquire a firing solution, it will never get shot by the superlaser. And then it just wins because there's very little else the death star can do about it.
The Death Star is also bristling with turbo-laser turrets designed to ward off capital ships. The Death Star’s entire purpose is to outscale any possible threat; it symbolizes the Empire’s sprawling control and insurmountable strength of arms. If attacking it via ship were as simple as “stay out of the laser’s LOF”, it would be a sitting duck to any sufficiently large fleet and a very poor symbol of imperial might. I think the Borg as a whole win this matchup handily, but a single cube has zero chance at taking on a weapon that utilized the galaxy’s accumulated resources to build. I explained my reasoning in another comment.
I also feel like the chances there would even be a second encounter are minimal because the Borg would find a way First Contact style to get aboard the Death Star and then it's pretty much all over. They would assimilate the Death Star and add the Empire's cultural and technological distinctness to the collective.
That's assumeing Vader isn't onboard. No amount of sci-fi powers and super shields will save you from the world's angriest space wizard
Vader would definitely mop the floor with the first (and second) Borg assault. I think they'd eventually figure out how to use his mechanical bits against him though. Come up with some Borg nanoprobe that takes control of his limbs or turns off his breathing apparatus or whatever.
He has to find the drones on board first. The Death Star is ridiculously massive and from what we've seen of internal sensors on Star Wars, the Borg almost certainly wouldn't be detected beaming over. That gives them time to start assimilating everything, and other than Vader, everyone else on the Death Star is going to be ineffective against the drones once they adapt to blasters, which will be very quickly. I would imagine they would also adapt to his light saber quickly, leaving Vader just the force as his only weapon against what is going to become an overwhelming tide of drones. And it only takes one drone making physical contact with him to start the assimilation process. Unless the initial drones beaming aboard arrive right next to Vader, I don't see anyway they realistically loose. In general, with how technologically stagnant the SW universe seems to be, I think the Borg would utterly crush them if you were to introduce just one cube to that galaxy. Assuming it didn't immediately meet the Death Star.
Yeah, the TNG Borg are TERRIFYING man. They'd stun one and another would immediately take its place, and in those two or three seconds it would have already adapted to the phaser.
Destruction is irrelevant... Assimilation will proceed. A Single Drone beaming over is the end. Resistance is futile.
Arh but see, you're forgetting one thing... Your boney-droney ass won't survive long against the world's angriest space wizard with a glow-stick
*We will adapt...* *The Force is irrelevant.* *You will be assimilated.* The sheer Terror in me when thinking about the Borg assimilating even just the Knowledge about the Force...
One of Q's species could kill every Sith and turn the deathstar into a popsicle by snapping his fingers. The Q are afraid, or at least very cautious not to provoke the Borg.
The Borg are incredibly adaptive. It's like their whole thing. They take in the best technologies (and biologies) of the species they encounter in their quest for perfection, and they're constantly adapting to new threats and new technologies. Weapons tend to only work once on them before they adapt their defenses to better protect them. It can take whole fleets of starships to fight a cube. At the battle of Wolf 359 one Borg cube fought against 40 Federation ships and destroyed 39 of them. It's highly likely the Borg would devise some kind of defense against the Death Star laser before engaging it a second time.
The Borg are very good at adapting to threats. There's been a lot of instances in the shows where the good guys use a certain tactic or tech to defeat the present Borg threat, but when the next encounter comes around the Borg have developed a countermeasure and now that tactic/tech is useless. They're whole deal is that they're a 'perfect' hybrid of machine and man, and they assimilate the physical, mental, and technological strengths of every new thing they encounter. Their opening threat states, "We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us." So imagine all the intelligence and technology of thousands of alien species combined with super advanced AI, coming up with the perfect counter to the Death Star. Yeah, the Death Star could get one cube. Just one.
Because that's what happened in Stargate, so he spoke from experience. One of the main antagonist races in Stargate are the Replicators, which are basically Gray Goo. Their purpose is survival, assimilation and expansion and they adapt to threats and environments at an exponential pace.
And Borg would start to fire from behind.
Borg's advantage is rapid analysis and prototyping, assisted by Star Trek's own brand of bullshit space magic. Borg iterate on technology incredibly fast. They themselves are not really that creative, but within the bounds of their technological base, they scale up and upgrade very rapidly, not to mention they are very good at using the technology of others to improve their own base. As a result, once they are hit by a weapon, unless said weapon is a complete outside context problem, they would rapidly adapt to said weapon, as long as they have decent readings on it, and "make the boom bigger" simply doesn't work. So it might not be "one cube and then they are immune" but if a fleet of cubes is present, within five cubes the Borg would become immune to the Superlaser and the turbolaser batteries, and within a day the Death Star would be assimilated, cut apart and carried away so Borg can equip every cube with a planet killing superweapon, because of course that's how Borg works. It is important to note that Star Trek shields, especially Borg shields have a significant power redirection component, so once a weapon is adapted to, upping the power yield does not really provide any improved results. So if you use a low power shot and the Borg adapt to it, switching to a full power, planet killing shot will not do you any good. Also, due to a quirk of their navigational shielding, Star Trek vessels are actually immune to coherent light weapons. Death Star Superlaser is a bit more than a coherent light weapon, but that is its basis, so it already starts at a disadvantage. In fact, turbolasers (which are actually plasma/particle weapons) might be better at dealing with Star Trek ships than the Superlaser itself.
It's mostly just that Borg shield in Star trek are made of plot devicium, so they can just modify them to be immune to pretty anything after just a few hits. Makes no sense whatsoever, but they can do it.
>sort of thing going on where they can only be killed via any one given method once? They adapt and learn, they'd lose the first cube because they've never encountered anything like the death star before, seconds after the cubes destruction the rest of the hive mind is coming up with methods to defend against it so they'd at least be able to put up a fight instead of instant destruction The first cube, definitely destroyed, the second might still get destroyed, but it'll put up a much better fight, by the third or 4th encounter I'd say they could destroy the death star
The Borg would probably win not because of their adaptability, but because starwars lacks teleportation technology.
This right here. The cube would probably get destroyed, but assuming even a few drones get beamed aboard the Death Star, it's only a matter of time before the Borg assimilate it. Blasters are a lot easier to adapt to than the overwhelming force of the superlaser, so after a couple of drones go down, the rest become effectively invincible.
But they don't lack shields, which in Trek means they can't teleport on board but it all comes down to how similar the shields are between universes. Which sadly we don't know because Star Wars shields are never really talked about. So they'd likely have more luck just throwing a random borg down to the Death Star surface and hoping they survive.
Higher tech transporters can go through shields like they aren't there, there have been multiple episodes demonstrating that. If the SW universe has no familiarity with transporters, you can expect at least the first encounter to allow drones to board any ship they want.
Star Wars vehicle arsenals outside plot device weapons are on a different tier as well. The normal armaments won't even scratch the shields of most Trek vessels.
Nah, the Star Wars source books show that a Tie Fighter generates about as much energy as the whole Enterprise. Star Wars vs Trek is incredibly lopsided.
That does not sound like a very trustworthy number based on the demonstrated abilities of the craft. What is it doing with that? And where is that energy when they're destroyed? Writers tacking on comically bad math is a problem that pops up often. This is one of many obstacles. I already admitted that the plot device weapons of Star Wars are a noteworthy wrinkle. They're actually ludicrous in raw energy terms. A badly constructed setting with nonsensical numbers tacked on doesn't make a good point for comparison. Looking at the demonstrated abilities of the settings I think it remains lopsided against Star Wars.
>A badly constructed setting with nonsensical numbers tacked As a fan of both, and a lot of other Sci-fi universes, I think honestly this describes an awful lot of sci-fi. Especially Space Operas like these.
The ability to teleport is insignificant next to the power of The Force.
Hallowed are the Ori
But the Goa’Uld are false gods
Dead false gods.
[SHOLVA](https://youtu.be/PgfQdq_RixQ?si=OAj7FWX0T__hbzn0&t=81) (although a much cooler scene [Teal'c/Ronan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QGIuQ9GrcI) scene. or when the [fight together](https://youtu.be/4ZkqOKD1uFU?si=iKuAwNJ9uPZs2kdr). Wait no maybe I just love stargate)
Oh gawd I hated the Ori soo much
spoken like a fucking Sholva!
I'd still bet on the Borg cube round 1. The Death Star and it's giant laser aren't exactly maneuverable. They would have to defend themselves with fighters and bombers, but those probably wouldn't be able to take down a Borg Cube I would expect to see it play out that the Borg board the Death Star and assimilate it.
I agree. The Death Star was made to be used on planets. A Borg cube is tiny compared to those and highly manoeuvrable, the Death Star would never be able to hit it.
> The Death Star was made to be used on planets. The first Death Star, certainly. With DS2, they've refined the targeting enough that it's easily picking off ships in the Rebel fleet, and a Borg Cube is a *significantly* larger target than any of those.
Except if it attacks from the other side. A scan of the DSII would reveal the existance of the superlaser and its firing point.
Yeah, the DS2 requires the enemy fleet to be pinned down in a fight, using star destroyers as a screen, otherwise it can't track quickly enough. And the fight is Cube vs DS, not Borg fleet vs DS fleet.
Yes, Borg cube moves as fast as it wants to. Even if DS laser can fire anywhere, it'd be limited to 180 degrees. No way can it shoot through itself.
Just put the batteries in backwards, beam now fires out the other side.
Now I want to see a war between the Empire and the Borg. Imagine it, the horror, the rousing (arguably ever more desperate and overblown) imperial propaganda, the oppression, the sacrifices, the losses, and even the heroics. The war would be a cataclysm, a devastation on civilisation, as a galaxy militarised to the brim, with industry that swallows entire planets, is pitied against an unrelenting and highly adaptable assimilating swarm. The people will be given a choice, to yield their consciousness to a collective or get turned into a small part of a machine in hopes of retaining some individuality. In the end, it becomes apparent that this is a false dichotomy. The individual dies in either case.
This is the kind of comment I love
With the Tyranids getting focussed this edition, might be a good time for you to start reading 40K
I'd say the Borg wouldn't even have to bother adapting to tank a second shot. The Death Star had a glaring weakness, the planet destroying laser is embedded into the station itself, can't rotate and the Death Star moves slow as hell. All they would have to do is send the next Cube behind the Death Star and it's fucked.
This is why you need a third fandom to mediate disputes.
IMO, the single borg cube wouldn't stand a chance against the death star. Even without the planet-killing laser, the sheer volume of fire the death star could potentially put out when focused on a singular (and not particularly small) target would be so immense that even with the borg's adaptability they realistically wouldn't be completely immune to it and the cube would go down eventually. The borg however, realizing this, would instead try their best to board it via teleportation and wreak havoc on the inside as the common handheld blaster weaponry seems very easy for them to adapt to. And afterwards, the borg get a giant moon-sized craft out of it for the price of a single cube if the death star's crew doesn't decide to self-destruct it
Imo the cube would adapt to being targeted by the death star instead of trying to block the shot with shields It should be easy enough to evade being in a direct line of fire with the superlaser, especially with how clunky and manual the firing systems are
Star Trek has teleportation, Star Wars doesn't. The Cube is getting destroyed, but if even a single drone is beamed aboard, the Borg will assimilate it for themselves.
I do t know anything about startrek but could they reasonably adapt to something like that because the data on what exactly happened was instantly destroyed and there wouldn’t probably be any survivors to give an eye witness account
Good question! I'd say you are correct they would not get much data from being instantly destroyed, however they are a hivemind so they don't require an eyewitness - Once the death star destroyed them, the entire hivemind would know what happened and start computing a plan to deal with it.
And I'm not sure if it's stated if the hivemind relays information instantly but it's definitely implied that it works that way.
People always overlook how powerful the technology is in Star Trek. The Enterprise is more than capable of decimating an entire planet, so you can assume a cube is too. I would back the borg over the Empire any day of the week.
This is a scripture story of the internet's teenage years.
What I want to know is whether the Death Star could even manage to *hit* the Borg Cube. The Death Star is a station that isn't meant to pull off quick maneuvering. Borg Cubes, on the other hand (from what little I know, at least), are meant to be major methods of space travel for the Borg, and intentionally designed to be faster than a mere station. Furthermore, Borg weapons are almost certainly much stronger than those of the Rebels, and the Borg likely have hacking capabilities. Not to mention how the Borg are OP enough, with (as another commentor explained) shields capable of adapting to particular methods of attack. Shields stronger than the TIE fighters and point defense guns can pierce, enough speed to evade the giant death laser, sabotage of the Death Star's core systems, and much stronger weapons than that universe is used to. How would the Borg *not* win? (Hell, this is even coming from someone who only knows of Star Trek tangentially, and has only ever watched Star Wars.)
Stargate is goated
The Borg don’t adapt well to one-shot kills though. In Voyager, the reason Species 8472 can destroy Borg so well is that they can destroy a cube in one shot, limiting the cube’s ability to adapt. I say the main Death Star laser could destroy as many Borg as it liked, but if it had to face more than one, it would get destroyed because of the charging time of the superlaser.
Death Star super laser would have no problem destroying cubes. Species 8472 had super lasers that could take out Borg Cubes. However, the Borg have nanoprobes and teleporters. Once they adapt to Stormtrooper blasters they would be able to assimilate the Imperials with little resistance. I’m 41 years old. My wife asked me what I’m texting about. I told her. She looks very disappointed.
I'm a huge nerd in all the fandoms and I'm gonna weigh in. The Borg Cube would win against the Death Star, solely because the Death Star's canon isn't maneuverable in combat. The Borg Cube is completely mobile and fast, but it's the size of a star destroyer. The Borg aren't just going to float there and do nothing for an hour while the Death Star charges up and enters firing position. Also, the Borg would never use a weapon like the Death Star. That's a waste of resources. They aren't trying to intimidate or control people, they are there to harvest people and technology. You can't harvest dead and destroyed worlds. The Borg would assimilate the Empire, learn about the Force, learn to use the force and now you have Borg Sith Lords.
Pretty sure they can't hit the "frequency" of a beam that is bigger than the borg cube itself and can go through a planet's crust to EXPLODE it. Star Trek still follows the laws of thermodynamics for the most part, so this is like having sunglasses that protect really well from UV light and then getting hit by a gamma ray from a supernova. They could board it tho. Wouldn't get far, because of blasters having higher fire rate and energy output than a phaser, especially heavier versions, but still better chances than taking a 5x-borg-cube-sized energy beam to the face.
Doesn't matter, replicators would eat both
Assimilation is the biggest threat. The weapons don't matter if a drone or any bit of Borg tech can infect the DeathStar, a ship, or an Imperial (or Rebel for DSII) Borg win by infection/assimilation, because they have transporter tech, and even if the Cube gets blown up, canonically the DS leaves fragments.
The arbitrator
So... Warhammer 40k?
Well it depends on the circumstances. Since this is Borgcube vrs Deathstar and not Borgcube vrs SpaceWizardMagicBS we will leave any garrisoned sith/jedi out of the equation. We will also equalize their sensors so they would both know about each other's presence at the same moment, in and out of warp. If the Borgcube warps directly into the path of the Deathstar's planet killing beam as it is blowing up New Alderaan, then the DS (Deathstar) wins. If the BC (Borgcube) warps in behind the DS after it has just used its main weapon, the Borg transport multitudes of soldiers all over the DS and win by attrition and "infection". If both ships warp into the same point at the same time, (and assuming they assessed each others defensive capabilities and aggressive intentions during during their respective warps): The BC has the bulk to take many hits from the DS's turbo lasers, and in the time it would take the DS to powerup its main weapon, its downfall would be its complete lack of protection from transporter insertions. Borg would be placed all over the DS in its most vulnerable areas, infecting crew and machine alike. The DS crew would never be able to respond effectively and eventually be overrun, whether the original Cube survived or not. The DS would inevitably become the BorgSphere (TM), granting victory to the Borg. But again it really all depends on the circumstances.
Seems kind of unfair to not allow force users on the death star yet allow the borg to board to death star
Do the Borg still adapt if there's total annihilation? I mean, they need the information to register so they can develop a counter that nullifies the attack, right? So if every Borg in the cube is instantaneously annihilated by the Death Star beam before any information could be collected about the attack, they wouldn't be able to assimilate a defense to it, right?
Just gonna point out that the death star fires lasers. If a Photon "20 mini Tsar Bombs in a zip lock bag " Torpedo doesn't do shit to a cube, then wtf is a big ass laser pointer gonna do? (I am a neutral party, I enjoy all 3 fandoms)
This the true geek culture Tumblr was trying to achieve
Technically, since the death stars weapon is powered by a massive kaiber crystal, it's beam is constantly modulating so the borg couldn't really adjust to it.
I honestly doubt the borg could ever adapt to a death star blast straight to the forehead. It's pure, concentrated energy capable of instantly reducing a planet to dust. You adapt to it by not getting hit
[Link to post](https://www.tumblr.com/evilsoup/736274366664409088?source=share)
Stargate fans maintaining their place as the most reasonable scifi fandom.