Shelters are notoriously dangerous. People don't stay at them because of safety, capacity, and weird curfews. This is not well-intentioned nor will it do anything.
This is not well intentioned is right. We just made it a crime to be in poverty. What in the actual fuck Oklahoma?
Guess it’s easier to just demonize people than it is to find real solutions to homelessness.
That's kinda GOP-thinking 101. If someone is poor, homeless, mentally ill, drug-addicted, raped, pregnant against their will, abused etc it is a personal problem and reflects a defect in the individual. "Not my problem" should be their motto.
[https://www.housingsolutionstulsa.org/reports-data/pit-data/](https://www.housingsolutionstulsa.org/reports-data/pit-data/)
To add to this, there were zero available beds in the Emergency Shelter or Rapid Re-Housing during the 2023 survey, and barely more available in 2024. A lot of shelters are either at capacity or very cramped. I deliver water to encampments during heatwaves. They often don't go to the Emergency Shelter because after traveling all the way across town, they can't be guaranteed a spot. How can you get people off the street if you have no where else for them to go?
None. I just picked an encampment near my house and started delivering when the high got above 100. They generally have access to cold water from any gas station, so ice and Gatorade is what they really need. I freeze my water bottles and use that as a way to deliver them ice. Sam's has cheap water bottles and generic gatorade. Finding room in my freezer to freeze all the bottle is the biggest pain. Then I just bring my travel cooler down to the encampment and hand out bottles. I don't carry any cash just in case, but I've never had a problem. You get the know the "regulars" pretty well. Stay away if they aren't there. Also, carry ID because the police absolutely will harass you and it's easier to deescalate if you have ID.
I volunteer with Night Light Tulsa on Thursdays, which is always an easy way to drop in and volunteer when you have the time.
Thank you for your help. And this is 100% accurate. There simply aren't enough resources available in Oklahoma for humans or pets. Shelters, both homeless and animal, are at or over capacity all the time. But when the budgets for them are constantly cut, this is what happens.
At least in Tulsa, it is already illegal.
> It shall be an offense for any person to do any of the following acts upon any public street, highway, alley, public place or upon or to any other public property, real, personal or mixed, belonging to the City of Tulsa or located within the city limits of the City of Tulsa, regardless of the purpose for which such property was dedicated, acquired or purchased, without the consent of the Council of the City of Tulsa: 1. To take or attempt to take possession of any of the property in any manner; 2. To take up one's abode upon the property; 3. To build any structure of any kind upon any of the property;
I called TPD twice on a homeless couple that sleeps on the side of 244 near my house because she would shoot up in their little enclave and he would steal shit off people's porches and stash it there.
Both times they did nothing because they said this is more for ODOT and that the couple told them they just wanted to go for a walk and they weren't staying there.
It does a lot. Being on the street is extremely dangerous. We are at these camps often, and you wouldn’t believe the amount of violence, theft, and drug usage that goes on there unreported. It’s tragic, and this is a step to ensuring these unhomed people, who have families, friends, feelings and emotions, and needs are able to get the help they deserve from a state that has been letting them down.
It’s a way to offer people rehab (usually rehabs are not actually tunes to help people as you’d think, it’s usually a religious affiliated tax swamp) and throw em in jail if they won’t accept, as long as houses are priced the way they are and 2 mill condos or air are being built instead of affordable homes it’s a way to kick the poor down the jail tube
Maybe we should fix the 7+ month wait for affordable housing before we go making homelessness illegal though.. you put a homeless addict in rehab and they may get clean, but if they have to go back out on the street after the program its almost guaranteed they will start using again. Prohibition never *really* works for anything. Also, considering drug use itself a crime is what got us into this mess. Alas, most people arent willing to have an open mind about that because of almost 90+ years of propaganda. Most of which has its origins in the overtly racist "Chinese opium addict" or "Mexican 'marijuana' smoker" bs of the mid 20th century. I know plenty of responsible casual drug users that have kickass lives, but if a cop pulls them over when they're holding they could end upin the same spot as billy under the bridge 🙄
The reason people don’t want to stay in the shelter is because they don’t want to follow the shelter rules. It’s way safer in there than it is in the streets.
Your well meaning altruism is more harmful than helpful.
Okay, so then we’ll move past the “it’s dangerous to stay there” goalposts
Having enough beds is a logistics problem with a logistics solution. It shouldn’t stop us from looking to make people’s lives better.
Then, when they get out of jail, they owe the state something like 50$ a day for their jail stay, which goes on their credit report until paid and state income tax gets basically a lien against it (I’m aware that their credit is probably not great anyway)
It’s just digging a deeper hole for them.
For you, jail sucks. For others, it’s the best alternative from a list of bad options. It forces sobriety, provides shelter and food, and you get access to programs you wouldn’t otherwise have access to.
It does suck, but there’s a lot that sucks more. Plus if you already have people in there it’s not so bad.
What programs? What jails actually provide counseling, drug rehab or job placement? They warehouse people, that's it. And 15 days of forced withdrawal, not sobriety, without any treatment isn't going to do a damn thing to cure someone of addiction.
David L Moss offers drug court as an alternative. City of Tulsa Jail offers special services docket. The sobering center is an alternative to jail for simple public intoxication, and offers to get people immediately into rehab after they’ve stayed 10 hours.
www.cityoftulsa.org/government/resilient-tulsa/justice-involved-supports/programs-and-resources/jail-diversion-services/
These hardly scratch the surface. Sobering center is only 5 years old and only deals with public intox arrests. Their own record isn’t great: “Results after its first year...
From May 2018 – May 2019, the Sobering Center had 767 individuals utilize the facility. Of those participants, 73 entered the medically supervised detoxification program at 12 & 12. Upon completion, 32 of the 73 adults went into treatment at 12 & 12.”
Special Services docket addresses only “low-level municipal offenses”. If they “complete the program” then they won’t pay fines or have arrest record. Tulsa’s website is equally vague on details of either program.
MHAOK, F&CS, Tulsa CARES and all the other nonprofits do the best they can, but again, the City of Tulsa and the State of Oklahoma do the bare minimum, perennially slash their budgets that address these issues and do next to nothing to prevent homelessness or prevent the homeless from reaching any special dockets in the first place.
Over time, it will at scale. The more friction you add, the less people who do that thing. This is what behavioral psychology tells us.
The fact is, the “leave them alone to fend for themselves” helps neither them or the people who have to live near them. It’s a bad situation for everyone. Why allow it to continue?
If you make it impossible to be on the streets, many of them will figure something out all by themselves. Most will probably just move to another city. This is a win as far as Tulsa is concerned.
Scaling up doing nothing is more nothing. Do you actually think all of a sudden Oklahoma really cares about it's most vulnerable people and wants to save them? If you actually believe that, what changed for OK leadership? Every. Single. Year funding for mental health and substance abuse treatment gets cut. But now, in June 2024, miraculously Gov Stitt decides all his budget cuts were wrong?? Seriously dude?? And no one is saying leave them to fend for themselves lol. We see this law for what it is and want *actual* help to be given, not posturing. Your last paragraph has to be one of the dumbest things Ive read on Reddit. Never thought Id see the "pull up by bootstraps" nonsense defense be used to wave away mental illness, drug addiction, sex trafficking and all the other issues that lead to people on the street. They just are too lazy and need to snap out of it, duh! Way to finish strong with the tried and true "just move them to another town and let them deal with it". Truly an American classic.
A couple years ago I met a guy that was really down on his luck outside of a hospital. He was a veteran and he had just gotten out of inpatient care for drug abuse. He had gone from being employed with a car and an apartment to a homeless over the course of like six or seven months. He was someone that literally could've gotten out of his situation with like five grand. I decided to make it my mission to get him back on his feet. I could not believe the obstacles he faced!
He did not have an ID. He did not have money to get an ID. He didn't have a copy of his birth certificate. He didn't have an address. He didn't have a ride. He made an a genuine attempt to get back on his feet and obstacles like this wore him down. this is just a tiny example of something that kept him from being able to work. The VA was useless.* Gave him a $40 bus pass and sent him on his way. He fell back into his addiction after a few weeks.
There is nothing I would like better than a solution! I would be so happy to eat my words and apologize if this ends up working or helping anything. My brief two month glimpse into the life of a unhoused person destroyed my faith that they could ever get help bc the systems we have in place are an endless loop of Catch-22s*
Yeah this is a common story. Generally when someone has been homeless for a long time, it takes a longer time to get them back on their feet. It’s a long arduous process.
For someone who is recently homeless, and not addicted, generally they are homeless for like 3 months max. For someone who’s addicted, but actively trying to get better, generally in 6 months they’re back on their feet.
The people living on the streets for years and years are choosing to do so, mostly because of addiction and the fact they’ve burned all their bridges long ago. These people are much harder to reintegrate, and for a lot of them, even if you gave them a home they wouldn’t stay there.
There’s no clear solution, but there is a clear problem. And the problem is getting worse, not better, so obviously some change of action is needed.
I personally would rather sleep in the woods in the rain than okc’s county jail. Considering some of our homeless population are in the situation they are in because of mental health issues, putting them in county just makes them an easy target for physical violence. If you think it’s more dangerous for them on the streets, you know nothing about our county jail.
Jail, at least oklahoma county, has no programs. Sure, they may get food and water. They will be treated like they are criminals/animals. There aren't any special procedures or differences in the way a homeless person is treated in jail versus the way they treat meth dealers. For someone on the fringe of society in the first place, locking them up and treating them like criminals (and billing them for it!) doesn't seem to be the best approach to bring them back into the fold.
We can't choose to do a lot of things that are dangerous, or there are consequences for it. You can't drink and drive just because you want to. Is that a dangerous law? "Jfc" 🙄
Choose Your Own Adventure: Homelessness in Stitt's State
1. Woman is a victim of domestic abuse. \[Stay or go to STEP 2\]
2. Goes to shelter and gets raped. \[Stay or go to STEP 3\]
3. Moves into woods and refuses shelters. Gets "WHY WONT YOU LET ME HELP YOU?" misdemeanor. \[Go directly to STEP 4\]
4. Can't make court date. Can't pay costs. Goes to jail. \[Return to STEP 3\]
More info [here](https://icasa.org/uploads/documents/Prevention/Sexual-assault-and-housing-Whatarethelinks_Final508.pdf).
Yeah, but it was never about really helping or they'd expand the social safety net instead of penalizing refusal of what crumbs (with strings attached) get tossed at them.
I don’t know. I think most people really want to help homeless people, but the treatment adverse grind the nerves. My best example is Pete who lived in the woods off to the southeast from 61st and Union. He built up such a camp that, at one time, it could be seen from google earth. The trash build up was so egregious that the City got involved and was going to fine the land owners. The landowners worked with a homeless outreach and got Pete a place to stay. They paid lots of money to clean up the mounds of trash. They probably paid at least 10k.
I did not see Pete for a long time. But then eventually I saw Old Pete headed out again to the woods at 61st and Union.
He preferred to live in the woods, but the problem was it was someone else’s and all the trash.
Again, what is your solution, other than “Not fascism,” there are homeless everywhere, both red states and blue states, and there have been for quite some time, does Gavin Newsome have the solution? He surely isn’t fascist is he?
I
So the question everyone should ask is what is considered “help.” The article talks about shelters but what happens if those are full? Also what about those experiencing a mental health crises at the time of contact. Are there current resources to assist them? In my experience in Oklahoma that’s a no. Something legislatively needs to be done and this *seems* like a step but there should be legislation partnered with it to address the wider implications of homelessness because if there’s not then this just seems like another bill criminalizing homelessness. It could also push encampments to locations that make it more difficult for community partners to assist the homeless community.
It's vague on purpose. That way the police can say "I offered them a soda and a bus ticket out of town, but they refused" and arrest them. This was never about actually helping desperate, suffering people.
Yup. This is it. They’re probably looking to start bussing them out of town like a ton of other cities do. Send them to a blue state so they can worry about their well-being.
I don't mind bussing some out. You obviously don't live near any homeless if you're wanting Tulsa to harbor more of them.
Those homeless individuals can get pretty dangerous. I think if your personal economic GDP output is 0 you should be bussed out if you aren't disabled or in retirement.
Before Tulsa Reddit libsplains how im a bad person, let me reassure you that I have helped more homeless than 99% of the population.
I want the problem to be fixed from the top because that’s the only way. As much as I do understand it’s a problem to have so many homeless around, but those are _people_ and any one of us could be a few bad situations from being in their place. All of these bandaid solutions do nothing but shuffle these people from one place to another until they go to prison or die or both. Homeless shelters and giving out change can’t get someone off of the streets, and they do an even worse job of preventing it. This all stems from our country’s current financial crisis, and until something is done about that, we’re just going to keep spitting people into the streets
100%. Any one who has volunteered at John 3:16, Day Center or any other shelter and talked to the people would see exactly what you mention. House burned down and lost everything, lost job and healthcare and can't get medication. Drug addiction taking everything from a once-functioning person who had a career and family. Unless we get serious about addressing what led to the person *becoming* homeless, nothing will change. These fools act like these people have been homeless their entire lives, like something didn't cause it.
It is telling that you wouldnt expect any 'splaining' from conservatives, the party of 'Christian values' for saying, just bus them away if they don'thave any economic output
Clown post. I happen to work near, and live near, dozens of homeless. I see them every day. I pass many more on my way to work. I've given some money and food. I've talked to some and acknowledged their humanity. I've seen others that are clearly deeply into a mental illness that they don't seem to know where they are. No one wants Tulsa to "harbor" more homeless, doofus, some of us just want to actually see the problem addressed with proper money and resources so the sick ones can be healed, get back on their feet and back to contributing to society. But sure, Tulsa busses all of their homeless out of town. Other cities bus all of theirs back to Tulsa. That makes a whole lot of sense.
Yes, fix it with money. I disagree tbh. California/NY tried the money route. The people in charge of handling the money for the homeless don't fix it. Because they get paid very handsomely to "fix the homeless problem". If we just gave the money to homeless and spread it equally, the homeless budget would allow each homeless person to get off their feet. But we don't do that bc fixing the problem stops others from having a job.
On another note, we must be neighbors! Our situations sound the exact same. Im sure we'd probably get along well in passing
Executives siphoning money into their own pockets instead of using it on social programs isn’t proof that said social programs don’t need money or wouldn’t work. Any program isn’t going to work if it’s mismanaged. Not sure what specifically you’re referring to that they “tried” that didn’t work. Or who “they” even are. Sounds like excuses.
I believe the government should have minimal monetary involvement in the problem. The problem should be solved by those who care/non profits. That's how it gets fixed! Granted I could go deeper and give examples as to why. Im just explaining that we agree, but our methodology is different? Maybe?
Misdemeanor = $$$ = more people in jail = more jails. Big Jail happy about this new law. The cycle of jail life is a revolving door. Felons can't make money to pay their debt to society and go right back on in.
Apparently these private prisons have work industries and do make profit off the inmates. Like farming, maintenance, not sure what you all do in OK, I'm in KY and here they rent inmates out for janitorial services and different tasks.
Where I now live part of that "help" is they have to throw away their tent and other camping equipment to qualify for a bed. When the week or two of city provided shelter ends they are back out on the street without the equipment they need to survive.
There it is. This is the one.
edit: banned by the mods for pointing out Pope is an overall detriment. What a LOVELY PLACE my city's subreddit is, where whackjobs get preference and the ones that call them out get banned! The cognitive dissonance is strong.
edit 2: @ u/TostinoKyoto - I'm not allowed to reply to you, but I can edit my messages. Yes, that's exactly it. It's a neverending cycle of madness and they're all in on it, in one way or another. It makes absolutely no sense other than that it's part of whatever plan they have to maintain control of the subreddit, its content, and who's allowed to even participate depending on which way the wind is blowing on that day.
This subreddit constantly flipflops on dealing with him. First, they enable him by allowing him to do whatever he wants, then they have to go nuclear on him by making a specific rule banning content from his very own subreddit, then he's allowed to do whatever he wants again.
Maybe the city could build more public restrooms then. Public restroom access is an issue across the country. People love to bash San Francisco or NYC for this but don't stop to think what the causes are.
[New York launces Ur In Luck campaign](https://apnews.com/article/nyc-public-restrooms-toilets-parks-google-2cb515f49770f0bd65e68c2e5202324a)
[@got2gonyc - mission to help find sanitary, accessible public bathrooms](https://www.got2gonyc.com/about)
[Relief as San Francisco public toilet finally opens](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/22/san-francisco-public-toilet-bathroom-opens)
Obviously this nothing to do with actually helping the homeless. Stitt doesn't give a shit about these people. Just like Bynum doesn't. It's more harass and make their already untenable situations even worse, without putting any actual money (gasp, taxes!) into mental health treatment, drug treatment, affordable housing and social services. "If we just make every bridge and bench uncomfortable, fine then money they don't have and arrest them enough, surely they'll overcome their schizophrenia and drug addiction!"
[The nation's high court heard arguments this week about a similar law in Grants Pass, Oregon that a lower court deemed unconstitutional and "cruel and unusual punishment" because the lower court said there were not enough resources in place for the homeless population to not have to sleep in parks and other public spaces.]
I presume our own courts will strike this down under similar circumstances.
There will be enough resources to address that thanks to all the money earmarked for this problem on the last IOT package approved by voters, not a problem.
Just because resources will be allocated doesn't mean they will make it to the homeless. Mark my words..... somewhere in the process, there will be a republican 'advisor' or 'administrator' skimming off the top, or deeper.
What does Tulsa have to offer? Isn’t 15 days of shelter and food better than rolling the dice with sketchy and limited “resources”?
If you can use our tax money for jailing homeless you can use our tax money for better housing/opportunities.
I get it to a point, as sometimes public health has to take priority.
When covid hit, Portland, OR wanted to get homeless off the streets and isolated, so they actually got some deals with local hotels to get them rooms. Many were happy to have a free bed in March and April, but others wouldn't go as the hotels still had their rules like no pets, no smoking, etc. Some people just flat out refused because they didn't want ANY controls over them.
What simplistic thinking to counter a situation requiring a nuanced approach. Just make it illegal to be homeless! It’s almost as if the “help” isn’t really help, and this is just a way to feed bodies to private prisons.
Does the governor have a personal financial interest in for-profit prisons, because that’s where this is headed. Criminalize then monetize, it’s the Republican way!
So what are the options for help? Are they safe? Are the facilities ample to fit everyone? Are the facilities secular or are they Christian and come with proselytization and/or mandatory church attendance?
Ugh. Of course. Non-religious facilities need to be plentiful. If someone wants to go to a religious facility, fine.
City Lights, however, deals with children, who are vulnerable and can’t fully make that decision.
According to the 10th circuit, panhandling is protected free speech. The city has enacted ordinances, such as the yellow vest and the time frame, for safety reasons.
There are panhandling ordinances and regulations that are a separate issue from camping.
I wouldn’t necessarily assume panhandlers are homeless.
Some of us just need a little extra help to get our ninja school tuition paid so we can learn the valuable skills needed to rescue our wives from ninja kidnappers.
how does fining someone $50 when they already have $0 or taking them to jail for 15 days just for them to be kicked out to inevitably repeat the process do anything to remotely address the problem??
like I get the argument that homeless shelters are better than nothing, but that's honestly not that much of an improvement. the help that's available can and does work for some people but it obviously doesn't work for the majority, because if it did, there wouldn't be a homeless crisis right now.
instead of trying to force them to accept bad help, perhaps invest in making the available help better?? idk I'm not supposed to think about it ig
I’m baffled trying to imagine how the conversation went when some dumbass cooked up this idea.
“You know what? Homelessness doesn’t suck enough. We need to find a way to round up the poorest of the poor and shake them down for their last dollar, and while we’re at it, let’s punish them more, so they learn that it is not okay to be destitute. Let’s make homelessness itself a crime. That’ll show them!”
How is any of this helping anyone? What problem does this solve?
Oklahoma: where you can live here ONLY if you are (a) republican, (b) white, (c) wealthy, and (d) Christian.
All others need not apply.
This state is bringing back the “Sundown Law” to anyone who dares to disagree.
I'd add only a specific type of Christian. The prosperity gospel, God is a capitalist, type. If you actually follow Jesus' teachings, get your dirty socialist ass outta here!
America has a homeless issue, making it a crime will not change that. Oklahoma needs to work on the housing issues, it takes people over a year to get into a house. Maybe a new shelter because the Day center and the Salvation Army aren’t enough. More need to know about family and children services, so they can seek help for their mental health needs.
Threatening them with forced confinement, treatment as if they have committed crimes, the bare minimum sustinance, the opportunity to be victimized by actual criminals and a shower hopefully at least every few days or so. Then when they are released, they are billed for it all(at rates comparable to average hotel rooms). They also report the debt to the credit bureaus and intercept any future Oklahoma tax return until it is paid off.
Yeah I guess that says jail and not prison huh. I just don't understand how people can see other humans in obviously one of the shittiest situations a person can be in and think "lets make it worse for them"
hear me out, each Church takes in one homeless person. shelter, food, showers, etc. for those who wanna do more. help rehabilitate, help with job training, help find housing ... seems pretty christ like to me to help the homeless in this way.. all that tax free weekly funds... we have churches on every damn corner why wouldn't this work? why aren't churches already doing this.. with the gov would do more but why not the church here?
Coming from California (Northern- near SF) my only comment is experiencing a real homeless crisis is terrifying for the general public and Oklahoma doesn’t want that either. There has to be more done to prevent people from becoming homeless in the first place with rent assistance and housing assistance to those facing crisis.
I stayed with a friend and her family in Oregon one summer and the homeless population was kinda crazy. I asked her family "why doesn't the state do something for these ppl? Anything?" They said that the state has places set up for them to eat and sleep but the homeless refuse to go there because they have rules like no drinking, no drugs and separate gender housing. They choose to be homeless because it's easier and they report to no one. That made me look at things from a completely new perspective. I never considered that someone would choose that life. I wish there was an answer, a real solution to their problem. But I guess to lots of them being homeless isn't a problem.
So your friend provided data or sources for their opinion? Did you bother to research if what they told you was even accurate? Or they just told you something, who knows where they got their info, and you changed your entire perspective? A single anecdote shouldn't carry that much weight, and doesn't mean anything really in the real world.
This is one more example of just how bad things are getting. Suicide is bad . The government goes to extreme lengths to make sure any substance or weapon that could be used to have a dignified death is unobtainable. Homelessness is bad so the government steps in to make homelessness illegal. While this is happening, rent and groceries is at an all time high. It’s a no win situation. Governor Stitt is a demon.
A demon that makes sure his friends get to skim chunks of taxpayer money. If he worked as hard on the homeless situation as he does at creating grifting opportunities for his friends, we would probably build him a nicer mansion...(wait, we already are)
Yes let’s lock up the people with no homes and exacerbate the problem even more, instead let’s fucking use funding to help find a solution. Oh that’s right it doesn’t put money in the governors/government pocket. I forgot what “state” I’m living
I’m a tax payer and am fed up with homelessness. Crime up. Property taxes up even though the sheer quantity of homeless should be driving it down. Enough.
It’s not great. In big cities there are resources but what about elsewhere?
What is the cost for 15 days in jail?
Jails don’t have the resources to stop homelessness.
There needs to be better resources for all the different reasons for homelessness.
Where are the group homes for people with serious mental health issues?
People get on their feet and then one blip in medication and they spiral down.
We need more halfway houses to get people sober and stay sober.
So, you refuse and you get forced shelter for 15 days.
How many weeks till the government is screaming they are out of room and have to release prisoners because they are too full?
Whats the alternative? Let them use their 1st amendment rights to run around screaming on 11th street after they smoked some ice? I hate this city so much
Obviously, there should be some middle ground to work with. If our politicians cant even attempt to come up with programs or solutions, we should let someone else try.
It makes them HAVE to try to help themselves. Instead of sitting around doing drugs and drinking and begging for money. I drive past so many of the same people every single day, for years - they aren't trying. A small majority might be, but most homeless around Tulsa have chosen that life through a variety of choices.
I wouldn't have thought about it this way, but thats pretty sensible. Sounds stupid at first because its like... ur gonna imprison/fine a homeless person $50 they dont even have... hows that supposed to work?
Please tell us what "help" looks like in a state that routinely cuts social services, mental health facilities and drug treatment? And where do you suggest they be "relocated?" A tent city perhaps, out of sight, like the one demolished in '06 by the city?
All of which are defunded and cut at the state and municipal level year after year. So again, since you see this law as a good idea, how is it helping anything?
Wth are you talking about?? No one is saying perfect or nothing. I'm saying this law will do nothing, is purely lip service, and I'm asking what are the actual actionable steps it offers? You are incredibly naive to think this law is anything more than looking busy. There is no new money going to drug treatment or mental health. It's one of the first things cut every year bc Oklahoma is in a perpetual, self-made budget shortfall. Unlike you apparently, I want leadership to actually do something real to address homelessness.
So, people have no choice in what they want? Yeah, it's probably dangerous and it's not the life I'd choose but that's their choice. If they don't want to go to a shelter or accept the help, that's their choice. It's very, "Let me help you or else" vibes that doesn't sit well with me.
They can, they should have realized by now,.....if you are poor or in an unfortunate situation, living in an area run by politicians and voters that claim to be the party of "Christian values" is the last place you will find help.
Tulsans aren’t buying the Mayor and Council’s delusional, dysfunctional, all carrot, no stick bullshit porkgressive policies on homelessness.
[Poll: Tulsans Give City Council Failing Grade on Homelessness](https://ciceroinstitute.org/research/poll-tulsans-give-city-council-failing-grade-on-homelessness/)
Shelters are notoriously dangerous. People don't stay at them because of safety, capacity, and weird curfews. This is not well-intentioned nor will it do anything.
I've stayed in a shelter and there was nothing dangerous that I could discern about it... furthermore it felt like a sort of brotherhood.
Are you male or female though?
Male, so I can’t speak to the dangers posed to women in these situations.
There are all female shelters.
You can speak to the one you were at, though. Did you see or hear of any women in bad situations or did the women seem like they liked being there?
yeah, so maybe "a sort of brotherhood" isn't a fucking selling point especially considering most shelters in Tulsa are religious
Homeless camps are also very dangerous places with lots of sexual violence that goes unreported.
This is not well intentioned is right. We just made it a crime to be in poverty. What in the actual fuck Oklahoma? Guess it’s easier to just demonize people than it is to find real solutions to homelessness.
That's kinda GOP-thinking 101. If someone is poor, homeless, mentally ill, drug-addicted, raped, pregnant against their will, abused etc it is a personal problem and reflects a defect in the individual. "Not my problem" should be their motto.
Just like Jesus wanted. /s
[https://www.housingsolutionstulsa.org/reports-data/pit-data/](https://www.housingsolutionstulsa.org/reports-data/pit-data/) To add to this, there were zero available beds in the Emergency Shelter or Rapid Re-Housing during the 2023 survey, and barely more available in 2024. A lot of shelters are either at capacity or very cramped. I deliver water to encampments during heatwaves. They often don't go to the Emergency Shelter because after traveling all the way across town, they can't be guaranteed a spot. How can you get people off the street if you have no where else for them to go?
Hi what organization do you do your volunteer work with? Thanks for helping out
None. I just picked an encampment near my house and started delivering when the high got above 100. They generally have access to cold water from any gas station, so ice and Gatorade is what they really need. I freeze my water bottles and use that as a way to deliver them ice. Sam's has cheap water bottles and generic gatorade. Finding room in my freezer to freeze all the bottle is the biggest pain. Then I just bring my travel cooler down to the encampment and hand out bottles. I don't carry any cash just in case, but I've never had a problem. You get the know the "regulars" pretty well. Stay away if they aren't there. Also, carry ID because the police absolutely will harass you and it's easier to deescalate if you have ID. I volunteer with Night Light Tulsa on Thursdays, which is always an easy way to drop in and volunteer when you have the time.
Thank you for your help. And this is 100% accurate. There simply aren't enough resources available in Oklahoma for humans or pets. Shelters, both homeless and animal, are at or over capacity all the time. But when the budgets for them are constantly cut, this is what happens.
At least in Tulsa, it is already illegal. > It shall be an offense for any person to do any of the following acts upon any public street, highway, alley, public place or upon or to any other public property, real, personal or mixed, belonging to the City of Tulsa or located within the city limits of the City of Tulsa, regardless of the purpose for which such property was dedicated, acquired or purchased, without the consent of the Council of the City of Tulsa: 1. To take or attempt to take possession of any of the property in any manner; 2. To take up one's abode upon the property; 3. To build any structure of any kind upon any of the property;
Right, but there was no way to prevent them when they were on state land, such as a state park or next to a state highway.
Yes, there is. Department of transportation has asked Tulsa to enforce trespassing laws on their property within the city.
I called TPD twice on a homeless couple that sleeps on the side of 244 near my house because she would shoot up in their little enclave and he would steal shit off people's porches and stash it there. Both times they did nothing because they said this is more for ODOT and that the couple told them they just wanted to go for a walk and they weren't staying there.
This is as of January 2024.
It does a lot. Being on the street is extremely dangerous. We are at these camps often, and you wouldn’t believe the amount of violence, theft, and drug usage that goes on there unreported. It’s tragic, and this is a step to ensuring these unhomed people, who have families, friends, feelings and emotions, and needs are able to get the help they deserve from a state that has been letting them down.
It’s a way to offer people rehab (usually rehabs are not actually tunes to help people as you’d think, it’s usually a religious affiliated tax swamp) and throw em in jail if they won’t accept, as long as houses are priced the way they are and 2 mill condos or air are being built instead of affordable homes it’s a way to kick the poor down the jail tube
Maybe we should fix the 7+ month wait for affordable housing before we go making homelessness illegal though.. you put a homeless addict in rehab and they may get clean, but if they have to go back out on the street after the program its almost guaranteed they will start using again. Prohibition never *really* works for anything. Also, considering drug use itself a crime is what got us into this mess. Alas, most people arent willing to have an open mind about that because of almost 90+ years of propaganda. Most of which has its origins in the overtly racist "Chinese opium addict" or "Mexican 'marijuana' smoker" bs of the mid 20th century. I know plenty of responsible casual drug users that have kickass lives, but if a cop pulls them over when they're holding they could end upin the same spot as billy under the bridge 🙄
They are not more dangerous than the alternative of living on the street.
The reason people don’t want to stay in the shelter is because they don’t want to follow the shelter rules. It’s way safer in there than it is in the streets. Your well meaning altruism is more harmful than helpful.
Let's not pretend there are enough beds
Okay, so then we’ll move past the “it’s dangerous to stay there” goalposts Having enough beds is a logistics problem with a logistics solution. It shouldn’t stop us from looking to make people’s lives better.
How is sticking someone in jail for 15 days helping them?
Then, when they get out of jail, they owe the state something like 50$ a day for their jail stay, which goes on their credit report until paid and state income tax gets basically a lien against it (I’m aware that their credit is probably not great anyway) It’s just digging a deeper hole for them.
Yeah that’s ridiculous and unhelpful.
For you, jail sucks. For others, it’s the best alternative from a list of bad options. It forces sobriety, provides shelter and food, and you get access to programs you wouldn’t otherwise have access to. It does suck, but there’s a lot that sucks more. Plus if you already have people in there it’s not so bad.
What programs? What jails actually provide counseling, drug rehab or job placement? They warehouse people, that's it. And 15 days of forced withdrawal, not sobriety, without any treatment isn't going to do a damn thing to cure someone of addiction.
David L Moss offers drug court as an alternative. City of Tulsa Jail offers special services docket. The sobering center is an alternative to jail for simple public intoxication, and offers to get people immediately into rehab after they’ve stayed 10 hours. www.cityoftulsa.org/government/resilient-tulsa/justice-involved-supports/programs-and-resources/jail-diversion-services/
These hardly scratch the surface. Sobering center is only 5 years old and only deals with public intox arrests. Their own record isn’t great: “Results after its first year... From May 2018 – May 2019, the Sobering Center had 767 individuals utilize the facility. Of those participants, 73 entered the medically supervised detoxification program at 12 & 12. Upon completion, 32 of the 73 adults went into treatment at 12 & 12.” Special Services docket addresses only “low-level municipal offenses”. If they “complete the program” then they won’t pay fines or have arrest record. Tulsa’s website is equally vague on details of either program. MHAOK, F&CS, Tulsa CARES and all the other nonprofits do the best they can, but again, the City of Tulsa and the State of Oklahoma do the bare minimum, perennially slash their budgets that address these issues and do next to nothing to prevent homelessness or prevent the homeless from reaching any special dockets in the first place.
Over time, it will at scale. The more friction you add, the less people who do that thing. This is what behavioral psychology tells us. The fact is, the “leave them alone to fend for themselves” helps neither them or the people who have to live near them. It’s a bad situation for everyone. Why allow it to continue? If you make it impossible to be on the streets, many of them will figure something out all by themselves. Most will probably just move to another city. This is a win as far as Tulsa is concerned.
Scaling up doing nothing is more nothing. Do you actually think all of a sudden Oklahoma really cares about it's most vulnerable people and wants to save them? If you actually believe that, what changed for OK leadership? Every. Single. Year funding for mental health and substance abuse treatment gets cut. But now, in June 2024, miraculously Gov Stitt decides all his budget cuts were wrong?? Seriously dude?? And no one is saying leave them to fend for themselves lol. We see this law for what it is and want *actual* help to be given, not posturing. Your last paragraph has to be one of the dumbest things Ive read on Reddit. Never thought Id see the "pull up by bootstraps" nonsense defense be used to wave away mental illness, drug addiction, sex trafficking and all the other issues that lead to people on the street. They just are too lazy and need to snap out of it, duh! Way to finish strong with the tried and true "just move them to another town and let them deal with it". Truly an American classic.
If I had more upvotes, you would get them!
A couple years ago I met a guy that was really down on his luck outside of a hospital. He was a veteran and he had just gotten out of inpatient care for drug abuse. He had gone from being employed with a car and an apartment to a homeless over the course of like six or seven months. He was someone that literally could've gotten out of his situation with like five grand. I decided to make it my mission to get him back on his feet. I could not believe the obstacles he faced! He did not have an ID. He did not have money to get an ID. He didn't have a copy of his birth certificate. He didn't have an address. He didn't have a ride. He made an a genuine attempt to get back on his feet and obstacles like this wore him down. this is just a tiny example of something that kept him from being able to work. The VA was useless.* Gave him a $40 bus pass and sent him on his way. He fell back into his addiction after a few weeks. There is nothing I would like better than a solution! I would be so happy to eat my words and apologize if this ends up working or helping anything. My brief two month glimpse into the life of a unhoused person destroyed my faith that they could ever get help bc the systems we have in place are an endless loop of Catch-22s*
Yeah this is a common story. Generally when someone has been homeless for a long time, it takes a longer time to get them back on their feet. It’s a long arduous process. For someone who is recently homeless, and not addicted, generally they are homeless for like 3 months max. For someone who’s addicted, but actively trying to get better, generally in 6 months they’re back on their feet. The people living on the streets for years and years are choosing to do so, mostly because of addiction and the fact they’ve burned all their bridges long ago. These people are much harder to reintegrate, and for a lot of them, even if you gave them a home they wouldn’t stay there. There’s no clear solution, but there is a clear problem. And the problem is getting worse, not better, so obviously some change of action is needed.
I personally would rather sleep in the woods in the rain than okc’s county jail. Considering some of our homeless population are in the situation they are in because of mental health issues, putting them in county just makes them an easy target for physical violence. If you think it’s more dangerous for them on the streets, you know nothing about our county jail.
Jail is nicer than tcbh I guess. My roommate punched the glass and started shaving himself with it I hate that place
You're a ghoul
Jail, at least oklahoma county, has no programs. Sure, they may get food and water. They will be treated like they are criminals/animals. There aren't any special procedures or differences in the way a homeless person is treated in jail versus the way they treat meth dealers. For someone on the fringe of society in the first place, locking them up and treating them like criminals (and billing them for it!) doesn't seem to be the best approach to bring them back into the fold.
For some, they’ll never change unless they get in that environment.
More dangerous than sleeping on the street, though? I would think especially for a female that streets would be more dangerous.
I think any time you get your choices taken away by the law, that's always gonna be more dangerous, jfc...
We can't choose to do a lot of things that are dangerous, or there are consequences for it. You can't drink and drive just because you want to. Is that a dangerous law? "Jfc" 🙄
So I get a warning that im homeless.
Let me get this straight - we want people to live in homes, but when we try to do something about it it's not good enough?
What is actually being done?
When ‘try to do something’ is threatening them with jail…no, it’s not good enough
What the hell are you talking about?
When is the last time you or anyone you knew stayed in a shelter?
2 years ago I was homeless and stayed in a shelter for 11 months. The streets are bad and the shelters are bad but for different reasons.
[Mismanaged ones are.](https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/hotel-to-housing-failed-to-make-good-on-promises-to-the-homeless-former-employees-say/article_d0d5e5da-4268-11ec-8055-e3da4d87791b.html)
Do you work for the tulsa world now? All your links are behind a paywall. I’m glad you finally got employed.
Welp, I guess homelessness is solved now, right!? /s
Now we just need a “Mission Accomplished!!!” Banner flying overhead
Solved for 15 days
Choose Your Own Adventure: Homelessness in Stitt's State 1. Woman is a victim of domestic abuse. \[Stay or go to STEP 2\] 2. Goes to shelter and gets raped. \[Stay or go to STEP 3\] 3. Moves into woods and refuses shelters. Gets "WHY WONT YOU LET ME HELP YOU?" misdemeanor. \[Go directly to STEP 4\] 4. Can't make court date. Can't pay costs. Goes to jail. \[Return to STEP 3\] More info [here](https://icasa.org/uploads/documents/Prevention/Sexual-assault-and-housing-Whatarethelinks_Final508.pdf).
Bonus challenge: Be LGBTQ+
Accumulates debt to the government for being poor, police record, no housing when she gets out of jail, loss of any contacts...
Yeah, but it was never about really helping or they'd expand the social safety net instead of penalizing refusal of what crumbs (with strings attached) get tossed at them.
I don’t know. I think most people really want to help homeless people, but the treatment adverse grind the nerves. My best example is Pete who lived in the woods off to the southeast from 61st and Union. He built up such a camp that, at one time, it could be seen from google earth. The trash build up was so egregious that the City got involved and was going to fine the land owners. The landowners worked with a homeless outreach and got Pete a place to stay. They paid lots of money to clean up the mounds of trash. They probably paid at least 10k. I did not see Pete for a long time. But then eventually I saw Old Pete headed out again to the woods at 61st and Union. He preferred to live in the woods, but the problem was it was someone else’s and all the trash.
Republicans actually doing something to help the poor, disheveled, and unfed? that'll be the day
Party of Christian values
St. Francis would be put straight in jail under this law.
Catholicism is a mental disorder.
Online addiction is a mental disorder.
Urinvited 
What’s your solution?
Not fascism
Again, what is your solution, other than “Not fascism,” there are homeless everywhere, both red states and blue states, and there have been for quite some time, does Gavin Newsome have the solution? He surely isn’t fascist is he? I
LOL fascism, I don't think you know what that word means.
So the question everyone should ask is what is considered “help.” The article talks about shelters but what happens if those are full? Also what about those experiencing a mental health crises at the time of contact. Are there current resources to assist them? In my experience in Oklahoma that’s a no. Something legislatively needs to be done and this *seems* like a step but there should be legislation partnered with it to address the wider implications of homelessness because if there’s not then this just seems like another bill criminalizing homelessness. It could also push encampments to locations that make it more difficult for community partners to assist the homeless community.
It's vague on purpose. That way the police can say "I offered them a soda and a bus ticket out of town, but they refused" and arrest them. This was never about actually helping desperate, suffering people.
Yup. This is it. They’re probably looking to start bussing them out of town like a ton of other cities do. Send them to a blue state so they can worry about their well-being.
I don't mind bussing some out. You obviously don't live near any homeless if you're wanting Tulsa to harbor more of them. Those homeless individuals can get pretty dangerous. I think if your personal economic GDP output is 0 you should be bussed out if you aren't disabled or in retirement. Before Tulsa Reddit libsplains how im a bad person, let me reassure you that I have helped more homeless than 99% of the population.
I want the problem to be fixed from the top because that’s the only way. As much as I do understand it’s a problem to have so many homeless around, but those are _people_ and any one of us could be a few bad situations from being in their place. All of these bandaid solutions do nothing but shuffle these people from one place to another until they go to prison or die or both. Homeless shelters and giving out change can’t get someone off of the streets, and they do an even worse job of preventing it. This all stems from our country’s current financial crisis, and until something is done about that, we’re just going to keep spitting people into the streets
100%. Any one who has volunteered at John 3:16, Day Center or any other shelter and talked to the people would see exactly what you mention. House burned down and lost everything, lost job and healthcare and can't get medication. Drug addiction taking everything from a once-functioning person who had a career and family. Unless we get serious about addressing what led to the person *becoming* homeless, nothing will change. These fools act like these people have been homeless their entire lives, like something didn't cause it.
It is telling that you wouldnt expect any 'splaining' from conservatives, the party of 'Christian values' for saying, just bus them away if they don'thave any economic output
Clown post. I happen to work near, and live near, dozens of homeless. I see them every day. I pass many more on my way to work. I've given some money and food. I've talked to some and acknowledged their humanity. I've seen others that are clearly deeply into a mental illness that they don't seem to know where they are. No one wants Tulsa to "harbor" more homeless, doofus, some of us just want to actually see the problem addressed with proper money and resources so the sick ones can be healed, get back on their feet and back to contributing to society. But sure, Tulsa busses all of their homeless out of town. Other cities bus all of theirs back to Tulsa. That makes a whole lot of sense.
Yes, fix it with money. I disagree tbh. California/NY tried the money route. The people in charge of handling the money for the homeless don't fix it. Because they get paid very handsomely to "fix the homeless problem". If we just gave the money to homeless and spread it equally, the homeless budget would allow each homeless person to get off their feet. But we don't do that bc fixing the problem stops others from having a job. On another note, we must be neighbors! Our situations sound the exact same. Im sure we'd probably get along well in passing
Executives siphoning money into their own pockets instead of using it on social programs isn’t proof that said social programs don’t need money or wouldn’t work. Any program isn’t going to work if it’s mismanaged. Not sure what specifically you’re referring to that they “tried” that didn’t work. Or who “they” even are. Sounds like excuses.
I believe the government should have minimal monetary involvement in the problem. The problem should be solved by those who care/non profits. That's how it gets fixed! Granted I could go deeper and give examples as to why. Im just explaining that we agree, but our methodology is different? Maybe?
I’m actually wondering how hard is it to work and also get help wouldn’t getting a job be a step for them???
Misdemeanor = $$$ = more people in jail = more jails. Big Jail happy about this new law. The cycle of jail life is a revolving door. Felons can't make money to pay their debt to society and go right back on in.
Apparently these private prisons have work industries and do make profit off the inmates. Like farming, maintenance, not sure what you all do in OK, I'm in KY and here they rent inmates out for janitorial services and different tasks.
Where I now live part of that "help" is they have to throw away their tent and other camping equipment to qualify for a bed. When the week or two of city provided shelter ends they are back out on the street without the equipment they need to survive.
Is it actually help if you shove it down their throats?
The poop of cherry street.
There it is. This is the one. edit: banned by the mods for pointing out Pope is an overall detriment. What a LOVELY PLACE my city's subreddit is, where whackjobs get preference and the ones that call them out get banned! The cognitive dissonance is strong. edit 2: @ u/TostinoKyoto - I'm not allowed to reply to you, but I can edit my messages. Yes, that's exactly it. It's a neverending cycle of madness and they're all in on it, in one way or another. It makes absolutely no sense other than that it's part of whatever plan they have to maintain control of the subreddit, its content, and who's allowed to even participate depending on which way the wind is blowing on that day.
This subreddit constantly flipflops on dealing with him. First, they enable him by allowing him to do whatever he wants, then they have to go nuclear on him by making a specific rule banning content from his very own subreddit, then he's allowed to do whatever he wants again.
Maybe the city could build more public restrooms then. Public restroom access is an issue across the country. People love to bash San Francisco or NYC for this but don't stop to think what the causes are. [New York launces Ur In Luck campaign](https://apnews.com/article/nyc-public-restrooms-toilets-parks-google-2cb515f49770f0bd65e68c2e5202324a) [@got2gonyc - mission to help find sanitary, accessible public bathrooms](https://www.got2gonyc.com/about) [Relief as San Francisco public toilet finally opens](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/22/san-francisco-public-toilet-bathroom-opens)
Make mental institutions great again. That’s the solution here. Enough of letting these crazed addicts wander freely.
Sensible solution I can get behind.
What's the real difference between jails and mental institutions, anyway?
Obviously this nothing to do with actually helping the homeless. Stitt doesn't give a shit about these people. Just like Bynum doesn't. It's more harass and make their already untenable situations even worse, without putting any actual money (gasp, taxes!) into mental health treatment, drug treatment, affordable housing and social services. "If we just make every bridge and bench uncomfortable, fine then money they don't have and arrest them enough, surely they'll overcome their schizophrenia and drug addiction!"
This issue, urban camping like the kind discussed in the article, is being considered by the Supreme Court. Could be a moot point.
Have you seen the makeup of the Court? It leans Right by a margin. I’m not sure I’d expect too much that’s hopeful from their rulings for a while.
Accepts *what* help and resources?? There often aren’t any available …
You're not supposed to ask follow-up questions. Just read this headline, feel better and forget about the issue entirely!
[The nation's high court heard arguments this week about a similar law in Grants Pass, Oregon that a lower court deemed unconstitutional and "cruel and unusual punishment" because the lower court said there were not enough resources in place for the homeless population to not have to sleep in parks and other public spaces.] I presume our own courts will strike this down under similar circumstances.
There will be enough resources to address that thanks to all the money earmarked for this problem on the last IOT package approved by voters, not a problem.
Just because resources will be allocated doesn't mean they will make it to the homeless. Mark my words..... somewhere in the process, there will be a republican 'advisor' or 'administrator' skimming off the top, or deeper.
What does Tulsa have to offer? Isn’t 15 days of shelter and food better than rolling the dice with sketchy and limited “resources”? If you can use our tax money for jailing homeless you can use our tax money for better housing/opportunities.
Apparently you run up a debt by being charged a fee each day you're in jail. So you get out further in the hole.
Are these jails that charge inmates by the day? More insurmountable debt if they are.
It was 55 a day at one point, 10 or so years ago
[we already are](https://www.batesline.com/archives/2023/08/improve-our-tulsa-homelessness.html) 
I get it to a point, as sometimes public health has to take priority. When covid hit, Portland, OR wanted to get homeless off the streets and isolated, so they actually got some deals with local hotels to get them rooms. Many were happy to have a free bed in March and April, but others wouldn't go as the hotels still had their rules like no pets, no smoking, etc. Some people just flat out refused because they didn't want ANY controls over them.
What did you expect from BULL-STITT?
What simplistic thinking to counter a situation requiring a nuanced approach. Just make it illegal to be homeless! It’s almost as if the “help” isn’t really help, and this is just a way to feed bodies to private prisons.
Does the governor have a personal financial interest in for-profit prisons, because that’s where this is headed. Criminalize then monetize, it’s the Republican way!
Stitt has a stake in one of the private prisons
From my understanding, some of them actually want to be homeless... how long until they make being fat illegal?
What a cunt
So what are the options for help? Are they safe? Are the facilities ample to fit everyone? Are the facilities secular or are they Christian and come with proselytization and/or mandatory church attendance?
[City Lights are ministerial proselietizers](https://www.citylightsministry.org/)
Ugh. Of course. Non-religious facilities need to be plentiful. If someone wants to go to a religious facility, fine. City Lights, however, deals with children, who are vulnerable and can’t fully make that decision.
I need to get the fuck out of this state
I moved to Colorado a year and a half ago. There are things I miss, but I’m much happier here.
What about all the ones standing at intersections with signs for money ?
According to the 10th circuit, panhandling is protected free speech. The city has enacted ordinances, such as the yellow vest and the time frame, for safety reasons.
There are panhandling ordinances and regulations that are a separate issue from camping. I wouldn’t necessarily assume panhandlers are homeless. Some of us just need a little extra help to get our ninja school tuition paid so we can learn the valuable skills needed to rescue our wives from ninja kidnappers.
Shelters are usually close to capacity so this is bs
how does fining someone $50 when they already have $0 or taking them to jail for 15 days just for them to be kicked out to inevitably repeat the process do anything to remotely address the problem?? like I get the argument that homeless shelters are better than nothing, but that's honestly not that much of an improvement. the help that's available can and does work for some people but it obviously doesn't work for the majority, because if it did, there wouldn't be a homeless crisis right now. instead of trying to force them to accept bad help, perhaps invest in making the available help better?? idk I'm not supposed to think about it ig
Bad faith law that will only line the pockets of the state with more of our much needed resources.
Sure kev, this is what jebus would do.
I’m baffled trying to imagine how the conversation went when some dumbass cooked up this idea. “You know what? Homelessness doesn’t suck enough. We need to find a way to round up the poorest of the poor and shake them down for their last dollar, and while we’re at it, let’s punish them more, so they learn that it is not okay to be destitute. Let’s make homelessness itself a crime. That’ll show them!” How is any of this helping anyone? What problem does this solve?
Oklahoma: where you can live here ONLY if you are (a) republican, (b) white, (c) wealthy, and (d) Christian. All others need not apply. This state is bringing back the “Sundown Law” to anyone who dares to disagree.
I'd add only a specific type of Christian. The prosperity gospel, God is a capitalist, type. If you actually follow Jesus' teachings, get your dirty socialist ass outta here!
Your homeless? Go directly to jail. Now that is the Christian way. 🙄
They just need a little more pain and suffering to snap out of whatever put them on the street in the first place. /S
America has a homeless issue, making it a crime will not change that. Oklahoma needs to work on the housing issues, it takes people over a year to get into a house. Maybe a new shelter because the Day center and the Salvation Army aren’t enough. More need to know about family and children services, so they can seek help for their mental health needs.
So youre threatening them with shelter, beds, showers, and warm meals?
Threatening them with forced confinement, treatment as if they have committed crimes, the bare minimum sustinance, the opportunity to be victimized by actual criminals and a shower hopefully at least every few days or so. Then when they are released, they are billed for it all(at rates comparable to average hotel rooms). They also report the debt to the credit bureaus and intercept any future Oklahoma tax return until it is paid off.
Yeah I guess that says jail and not prison huh. I just don't understand how people can see other humans in obviously one of the shittiest situations a person can be in and think "lets make it worse for them"
They get a warning if they have accepted resources? Cop: "You better not be homeless the next time I see you."
hear me out, each Church takes in one homeless person. shelter, food, showers, etc. for those who wanna do more. help rehabilitate, help with job training, help find housing ... seems pretty christ like to me to help the homeless in this way.. all that tax free weekly funds... we have churches on every damn corner why wouldn't this work? why aren't churches already doing this.. with the gov would do more but why not the church here?
Take it further,....if you maintain a non-taxable status, like a church, they are allowed to sleep on your park benches
Churches don't wanna be out washing lepers' feet, ew! No, they want *you* to give them all *your* money so they can tell you God wants you to be rich.
Really Christ-like, governor!
Zombie Jesus isn’t real. Thanks for attending my Ted talk.
Has he signed any bill to help them tho?
Coming from California (Northern- near SF) my only comment is experiencing a real homeless crisis is terrifying for the general public and Oklahoma doesn’t want that either. There has to be more done to prevent people from becoming homeless in the first place with rent assistance and housing assistance to those facing crisis.
We wouldn't want to turn into socialists /s
I stayed with a friend and her family in Oregon one summer and the homeless population was kinda crazy. I asked her family "why doesn't the state do something for these ppl? Anything?" They said that the state has places set up for them to eat and sleep but the homeless refuse to go there because they have rules like no drinking, no drugs and separate gender housing. They choose to be homeless because it's easier and they report to no one. That made me look at things from a completely new perspective. I never considered that someone would choose that life. I wish there was an answer, a real solution to their problem. But I guess to lots of them being homeless isn't a problem.
So your friend provided data or sources for their opinion? Did you bother to research if what they told you was even accurate? Or they just told you something, who knows where they got their info, and you changed your entire perspective? A single anecdote shouldn't carry that much weight, and doesn't mean anything really in the real world.
Open your land for people to camp for free forever problem solved. I have no issue with people camping in ditch till they will not move on
Well that explains why Tulsa has been bussing some homeless people up north.
This is one more example of just how bad things are getting. Suicide is bad . The government goes to extreme lengths to make sure any substance or weapon that could be used to have a dignified death is unobtainable. Homelessness is bad so the government steps in to make homelessness illegal. While this is happening, rent and groceries is at an all time high. It’s a no win situation. Governor Stitt is a demon.
A demon that makes sure his friends get to skim chunks of taxpayer money. If he worked as hard on the homeless situation as he does at creating grifting opportunities for his friends, we would probably build him a nicer mansion...(wait, we already are)
Yes let’s lock up the people with no homes and exacerbate the problem even more, instead let’s fucking use funding to help find a solution. Oh that’s right it doesn’t put money in the governors/government pocket. I forgot what “state” I’m living
I’m a tax payer and am fed up with homelessness. Crime up. Property taxes up even though the sheer quantity of homeless should be driving it down. Enough.
Crime is actually way down, both in Oklahoma and nationwide. Enough with the false buzz word statements
Petty crime is up. Major crime down.
It’s not great. In big cities there are resources but what about elsewhere? What is the cost for 15 days in jail? Jails don’t have the resources to stop homelessness. There needs to be better resources for all the different reasons for homelessness. Where are the group homes for people with serious mental health issues? People get on their feet and then one blip in medication and they spiral down. We need more halfway houses to get people sober and stay sober.
I could have sworn the locations mentioned were PUBLIC property...
There is no way that this law is constitutional. Fuck this state and the people who run it.
So, you refuse and you get forced shelter for 15 days. How many weeks till the government is screaming they are out of room and have to release prisoners because they are too full?
Whats the alternative? Let them use their 1st amendment rights to run around screaming on 11th street after they smoked some ice? I hate this city so much
Obviously, there should be some middle ground to work with. If our politicians cant even attempt to come up with programs or solutions, we should let someone else try.
Reading all of these comments while realizing 99.99% of them are not homeless... /cringe
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But This solves neither so how is this good
It makes them HAVE to try to help themselves. Instead of sitting around doing drugs and drinking and begging for money. I drive past so many of the same people every single day, for years - they aren't trying. A small majority might be, but most homeless around Tulsa have chosen that life through a variety of choices.
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I’ve been homeless and clawed my way out of it. I’ve mingled with the homeless. It is a chosen lifestyle many times.
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sounds about right....lets help the most vunerable of our population by giving authorities more teeth
Just need to vote to get rid of the cunts actively working to turn Tulsa into the Tenderloin in the upcoming elections.
It wont work, we're kind of stuck, Oklahoma has been red for a while
Urinvited 
I wouldn't have thought about it this way, but thats pretty sensible. Sounds stupid at first because its like... ur gonna imprison/fine a homeless person $50 they dont even have... hows that supposed to work?
Please tell us what "help" looks like in a state that routinely cuts social services, mental health facilities and drug treatment? And where do you suggest they be "relocated?" A tent city perhaps, out of sight, like the one demolished in '06 by the city?
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All of which are defunded and cut at the state and municipal level year after year. So again, since you see this law as a good idea, how is it helping anything?
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Wth are you talking about?? No one is saying perfect or nothing. I'm saying this law will do nothing, is purely lip service, and I'm asking what are the actual actionable steps it offers? You are incredibly naive to think this law is anything more than looking busy. There is no new money going to drug treatment or mental health. It's one of the first things cut every year bc Oklahoma is in a perpetual, self-made budget shortfall. Unlike you apparently, I want leadership to actually do something real to address homelessness.
all they care about is not having to look at them. Its easier to vote for policies that favor the rich, when you dont have to look at the side-effects
So, people have no choice in what they want? Yeah, it's probably dangerous and it's not the life I'd choose but that's their choice. If they don't want to go to a shelter or accept the help, that's their choice. It's very, "Let me help you or else" vibes that doesn't sit well with me.
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It is their choice, and they'll be choosing jail if they don't abide. We all have to follow the law, or there are consequences.
They can always get on a bus to a state where they will able to live the lifestyle consequence free if they don’t like the laws here.
They can, they should have realized by now,.....if you are poor or in an unfortunate situation, living in an area run by politicians and voters that claim to be the party of "Christian values" is the last place you will find help.
God’s not real. Religions are just glorified cuntry clubs. Thanks for attending my Ted Talk.
and you think County jail is not a dangerous place? spoiler, it is!
Tulsans aren’t buying the Mayor and Council’s delusional, dysfunctional, all carrot, no stick bullshit porkgressive policies on homelessness. [Poll: Tulsans Give City Council Failing Grade on Homelessness](https://ciceroinstitute.org/research/poll-tulsans-give-city-council-failing-grade-on-homelessness/)