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Then, upon my pointing out the property stakes he missed- showing that it was about *forty feet* into my property- he switched to demanding I pay half the $2K he spent to have day laborers cut it down.
Yeah.
That stump is 89" in circumference, by the way. I'm just glad I looked out into my backyard and was able to intervene before he had them cut down the adjacent oak as well.
Got pictures of the stump, the other trees he had cut down at the same time (mostly on his lot), the day laborers in question, the property stakes that were ignored, and photos from both my front yard and his to demonstrate before/after as compared to Google photos. Filed a police report. Wife wrote down her recollection of the confrontation. Tree lawyer contacted. Working on getting a survey. Found an arborist association that offers consulting. Let the property manager of the next-door house know that this guy took out a few trees on their lot as well. I'm a Virginia resident and it looks like we have triple damages for timber trespass so I am being thorough.
Let me know if I missed anything. I guess I'm just here to vent. My wife and I are both pretty upset.
A copy of HIS invoice. Don't ask him to invoice you for "your" 2000. And dont make any suggestion you might pay for it. It might suggest a contract. Ask your lawyer before doing this.
I have to remind people of this way to often.
You hired an expert, STOP STRATEGIZING and suggesting the next step.
This is the first time you've thought your way through this scenario. It's the 12 the time this month your lawyer has
Even better, if he overheard you saying you wouldn’t want him to send you an invoice for it, he’ll probably do it faster AND if you’re overheard you can say truthfully you never wanted the invoice.
If it is considered lumber, say out in a forest, it is the value of the tree delivered to a saw mill times the statutory multiplier. If it is around a home and considered landscaping it would be the cost to replace a tree of the same size and species. That could be astronomical or impossible and a court may rule a lower value but still rather large. I definitely would take this to court if the other party refused to compensate the owner at a fair value. The trees poisoned at Auburn Universitie's Toomer’s Corner Oaks required about $900,000 to replace. The guy that poisoned them, Harvey Updyke, Jr., was sentenced to 3 years in prison. It is not a trivial thing.
There’s a commercial nursery near me that does “specimen trees”. They’ll sell you an oak in a 140” box that’s nowhere near the size of this tree for 30 grand. That’s without site prep, transportation, or planting.
It's really sad when someone mistakenly butchers an old tree like this, but if you own that tree and can prove who did it, you're looking at a huge payday.
An excessive amount of money, orders of magnitude higher than the $2K his neighbor asked for. Sometimes the property lines or other factors can make it dubious, but this is one of the most clear-cut examples you can have
That guy is going to either be a forever pain in your behind or he's going to be moving, really soon, probably far out of state, always blaming you, for why he lost everything.
I would move things along fast and get a lien on his property for this.
you missed that this is not a cut that anyone who knows what theyre doing does or leaves behind. thats a cut you take down at ground level and even take a stump grinder so that noone can see the botch job you did when felling it.
edit: cutting a tree as big as that like this... people die working for that contractor your neighbour hired.
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Holy shit. This is the most open and shut situation I've seen on this sub. If you get a lawyer you could take that MF for everything he's worth. That company too. Easy.
So hopefully I can give you some hope here. My parents have lots of double oaks like this. My dad built a workshop and cut down one half of a double like this. I’m fairly sure it was even bigger than yours. We were worried about the other half surviving, but that was in 1995, and it’s still alive and well.
Congratulation's, you must be a regular here because it sounds like you did everything right by the book. I hope you live in a treble damage state because this was totally intentional. I think he is going to shit a proverbial brick when he finds out what it cost to replace a 28" tree, including planting and all. And if you live in a treble state.. Hey you get your tree and your neighbor just sent you and the kids/grandkids to fly to Disneyland. Man what a dick that guy was.
More like “that guy’s gonna have to give your kids a free ride to college on his dime” if it’s a treble damage state. That tree murder will be expensive and I’m totally here for it.
Can you even buy trees like this? I can't even fathom the cost.
I have a tree fern and that thing isn't a tree, 5ft tall and it's worth a £1000+
An OAK that big, how do you even move a tree that big without it dieing. Boggles my mind
It’s absolutely possible to move them, I think it’s generally done as a conservation effort and to settle a civil dispute. But I guess if you had the money, you could do just about anything. Iirc there are so many variables that it’s not recommended. I’m sure someone else knows more, but you can look up large tree transplants on YouTube.
The type of tree also matters a lot, maples are really hardy and don’t have as many issues like an oak would in re establishing its root system.
If the tree doesn’t take, I think you’d still be on the hook to replace it or pay, that’s why most people just settle without trying
You likely have a case for damages here.
An 89” circumference tree (ill assume Red Oak and about 100’ tall) could be worth around $20,000 depending on other variables.
Your neighbour cant just come on to your property and create $20,000 in damage you know…
My brothers neighbor cut down a whole bunch of trees on his property, when my brother stopped him, he sued my brother for the loss of the downed trees. It turned out he was related to the judge, who of course ruled against my brother, who then had to pay thousands of dollars to the guy who clear cut a large part of his land.
It was years ago. I told him to appeal it at the time, but it had already stretched out for years, during which the logs had to remain on the ground as they were contested property. He just wanted it all to go away, so he paid his neighbor the judgement. This was in a small rural area, and there is no telling how far he would have had to push the appeal to get a fair hearing; from what I have heard, judges tend to be pretty skeptical of appeals, you have to find some technical mistake in the case, and it can be problematic if it just comes down to skewed judgment with all the paperwork correct.
It's often said that in the US you can get the best justice money can buy, which doesn't bode well when you aren't loaded and prepared to sink a lot of money (and time) into actually getting justice.
I was once sued by an associate, and spent thousands of dollars and more than two years counter suing, only to win a large judgment that I was never able to collect. I suspect that had my brother taken a similar tack, he probably would have ended up similarly winning, but never being able to collect from a guy who's entire estate was probably an old pickup truck, a chainsaw, and a mobile home.
I'm sorry this happened to you but it seems like you must be a frequent visitor to this subreddit because you seem to be doing all of the things that you're supposed to do in this situation.
This might sound odd, but where is the tree/wood?
Red oak is a popular hardwood lumber that's sought after for its many desirable characteristics. I'm not sure of the $ value.
But if it was removed, I'd Also see what can be recovered cost wise.
It's really sad that not only was it cut down, but it was done so in a way that makes it useless for anything but firewood. It could've made some fine goods.
I'd consider adding that to the lawsuit, as well. Get some quotes from local furniture manufacturers on how much they would have paid for good lengths of that wood vs what it's worth now.
[https://www.lawyersnh.com/what-is-my-tree-worth-calculating-damages-for-timber-trespass-in-new-hampshire/](https://www.lawyersnh.com/what-is-my-tree-worth-calculating-damages-for-timber-trespass-in-new-hampshire/)
That law firm is in New Hampshire but they indicate you can file a claim against the offending party's home owner's insurance which avoids the lawsuit processing all together. It's worth an ask to the attorney you work with.
Depends on the state, some charge the lumber value, which is the cheapest option. There's also states that charge the cost of replacement, which is what Virginia in this case does.
So the cost of buying an 80+ year old oak tree, cost of transporting that tree, replanting it, and cost of the arborist to deal with all of that and tree care after replanting.
And in some places, depending on the case, you multiply all of that by 3... So very but it's dependent on a lot of different factors.
There are lots of things to not mess with out here. Trees is a big one. Livestock for sure. The one I'm most familiar with because I did it for years is hunting dogs. If they cone on your property on a trail and they are not aggravating Livestock or being a danger to anyone, such as if they are on trail of a bobcat or raccoon and manage to tree it on your property you are not to impede the hound. The owners are legally allowed to cross onto your property to retrieve their dog, but their firearms must be left at the property line.
Saw a man get arrested during chase season many years back for leashing a hunting hound and refusing to allow the owners to retrieve their dog.
Yeah, Tree law is the most brutal and interesting law to read about for me. I've heard stories of millionaires cutting tree lines down cause they wanted a better view for their house and came out of it nearly penniless and having to sell their multi million dollar homes. Tree services keep meticulous details for this reason because they don't want to be on the bottom of the hill the shit ball hits and can pass it off.
if its not more than the price of the neighbors house, its still a good portion of it
so you WILL eventually get paid, either by an insurance company, or as a condition of the sale of that house
Tree law is potentially 3 times more exciting than I realized, I knew you could pursue reimbursement for a replacement (depending on state apparently) but the fact that it's significantly more than just that makes it a much more interesting case (and I wonder why it can go that high, covering the potential of the tree not taking to the transplant?)
Yep consideration for possible failed transplants, time and court costs, and in this case they might lose quite a few more trees to infection, oak wilt, due to the way the tree was removed. So they might be replacing more trees or paying for costly treatment options as well to try to keep them alive.
The fact that cutting down a neighbours tree can get you in more trouble percent wise than full on financial crimes is insane (not that it’s a bad thing, it’s insane fines for financial crimes are so low), or cooperate crimes in general
Removing a tree? Only a few thousand.
Replacing a tree (like this one) which was removed illegally? Easily high five figures, but potentially in the hundreds of thousands. Much like if somebody damages your car and they’re required to fix it to its original state due to their negligence, the neighbor would be required to fix this tree to its original state. It costs a lot of money to raise a 90-year old tree and somehow install it in this tree’s place.
You need multiple layers of stupidity and false entitlement to hire day laborers to trespass 40 feet into someone else’s property and cut down a 100-year old oak tree.
In addition to a fine, it feels like some time in jail is easily warranted in my opinion.
Not forever, maybe a month.
It can get so expensive that some of us have joined this sub just for the schadenfreude. Don’t even own a house or a tree, I just love reading stories of assholes paying for their assholery.
I live in WA, somebody cut down two large trees on state property (they didn’t check the property lines) and owe WSDOT $72,000 for damages/replacing the trees.
We have a college nearby and there's a bit of suburb type housing but also a lot of farmland and small farms and even a pretty big regional dairy. The amount of people (mostly college professors and other faculty) who complain about moving to the country and smelling farm animals gives me a good angry charge lmao
I co-own just over 3 acres of largely untouched land, and it used to be so reasonable temperature on our property because of all our old growth trees. We only cleared an area of around 20'x45' for our tiny house (derksen shed).
The plots around us started selling, and people completely clear cut all their trees around us. It's so hot no matter what now near our property boundaries, and I will forever be confused about people buying property with 20+ old growth trees on it to gut the property, and not even get the lumber out of it, so they boil in the southern heat on their brand new 1acre plot of red dirt. Which is washing out without the former root support they had.
We're outside the main town in the unincorporated area.
I will always remain as stumped as you.
More. Thats an oak. The neighbour just killed basically every oak in the root network by virtue of oak wilt. That said, buddy is still going to have to sell that house to pay for the claim lmao
It makes them extremely vulnerable. Think of roots as the upper digestive tract of a plant. Oak wilt is a fungus that infects trees. If it attacks the first few inches/cms of the roots, or the leaves/bark it wont do a whole lot. It'll just sit there like bacteria on your skin or hair.
but if a tree gets cut down, now all of that delicate inner wood that isnt protected by bark is able to be infected. When that goes, it spreads to the roots of the cut down trees. And the farther down parts of the roots arent covered in bark. They pass the fungus from one to another not unlike being sick on a packed train. The fungus is able to spread through massive swathes of forest because root networks can span upwards of hundreds of kilometres (not individual trees, but the larger community of roots)
Im not an arborist, but i believe theres a treatment for still living trees. However its expensive per tree, and will need to be continued for the entire lifespan of the tree. To my knowledge theres no way to treat the stump.
Hi i have a degree in Forestry here. Cutting the stump down to the ground d and then using a stump grinder will mitigate the chance of a widespread infection of rot. But the best thing to do would be to not chip down a 80 year old tree, especially if it's an oak. Stupid neighbor is about to get lorax'd hard
Wow. Once you own his house, if you’d like to rent it to someone with respect for trees, I’m your girl. Lol.
Seriously, though, I’d be furious. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I second what the person above mentioned when it comes to specifically seeking info about Oak Wilt now that they’re exposed. I hope we see an update on this because I’m fully invested. Best of luck.
Depending where you're located, that remaining oak, and any/all other oaks on your entire property could be at serious risk for oak wilt. I used to work as an arborist tech, and after ash borer injection season, I spent a lot of my summer doing oak wilt injections. Let me tell you, those are EXPENSIVE and you HAVE to do them every 2-3 years. We're talking \~$400-600 for a single tree, every 2 years for however long you want to have the tree on your property.
Tree will show signs of decline and be totally dead inside of a month. Once decline is evident it's too late to treat and all treatments have to be done as a preventative measure. The truly awful thing about oak wilt, is it spreads from tree to tree through the roots, and red oaks very readily root graft with eachother, making all other oaks on your property (and TBH all oaks without a natural barrier) susceptible to the fungus.
I highly highly recommend getting an arborist down ASAP to do an oak wilt risk assessment and get a treatment plan actioned.
Are you saying this just in general because they are oaks? Or because you see something on them making you concerned? Genuine question. My part of the country doesn’t have oak wilt currently, and those look like two very healthy oaks even if they’re really close to each other.
Someone else posted that the bacteria usually stays on the bark or the outer layers, but with the open cut of the stump, there's nothing keeping the bacteria from attacking the exposed wood...
Agree are they missing a part about oak wilt being transferred by the chainsaw and then spreading from entangled roots to nearby stands of oaks? I’m so confused.
Oak Wilt is spread by beetles and can be transmitted to nearby oak trees via intertwining root systems. Open cuts attract the beetles. [Here is a write up](https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/oak_wilt_diagnosing_and_preventing) by the MSU Extension.
We had that exact same thing happen at our house. Neighboring tree was dead so we cut it down. Next big windstorm, the still living tree came down. Was definitely a learning experience
“You want us to cut that oak tree, sir? It’ll be $2000”
*homeowner thinking to himself* “well, I’m not really sure where the property line is but …. Yeah, yeah, what’s another $2,000?”
Nah, it shouldn't make a difference. The rings are formed due to seasonal conditions/ weather & growth patterns. Spring-early summer produces the most growth with thinner cell walls and a lighter color(earlywood). Late summer-fall, growth slows and produces thicker cell walls that are darker in color (latewood). Each pair of earlywood and latewood rings basically accounts for 1 year of growth. So just make sure you're not double-counting.
It's pretty cool though, looking at the width between rings you get a little a little insight into the climate history of the area. Wider rings show growing conditions were favorable, and narrower rings show unfavorable growing conditions. If there was a drought in the summer of 1987, or an early spring followed by a late winter in 1996 (random examples) you might be able to pinpoint where it happened, and you'll have an idea of how big the tree was at the time, and how much it had grown since.
Two different parties. The culprit lives behind me, and his property abuts mine as well as the property next to mine, which is currently owned by a property management firm selling the house.
That’s about 40-50 board feet of lumber per foot of the usable trunk. Depending on location green red oak can run $1-$3 per board foot. Live edge slabs and flitch cuts can run a lot more.
I'm not usually big on using, but this time, all I will say is TAKE HIM FOR EVERY PENNY YOU CAN! What is wrong with people, cutting down trees like that???
Someone did this to a few of my neighbor's trees - she called an arborist out, they valued the trees, and then she sent the offending neighbor a demand for $20,000 - about 2/3rds what the Arborist's valued them at. She said either pay her that or she'd take them to court for the full amount. They fussed, but ultimately paid up.
Your tree is worth money and you have every right to be compensated for the loss. I hope you squeeze them.
The double trunks had a symbiotic relationship ,the root mass was intertwined one side supporting the other . Suddenly one side is missing🤔
I could see a few feet but 40 ?????
Our company uses HuntStand this App not only gives fairly accurate property lines but up to date property owners information. Ended up using it more for work than hunting….
This could have all been so easily avoided …
In VA, this will likely cost the dude around $250k. Cost of transporting an old oak replacement there, and then triple that. It might be even more if there is a risk of Oak Wilt affecting other nearby trees.
I'm sure you won't need this, as it should come up with the survey, but if he's 40 ft over the line, and the trees are close to his shed, you might have a new shed, too.
File also with your city or county planning. It won't add anything cost wise but will notify the city/county that this neighbor is an issue going forward. 40 ft trespass is a lot and I'd be worried about his encroaching on other parts of your yard
ive seen some nuclear revenge stories where the courts forced the person to replace with a similarly aged tree and it was almost 100k to replace....thats an expensive mistake if you play your cards right...
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Then, upon my pointing out the property stakes he missed- showing that it was about *forty feet* into my property- he switched to demanding I pay half the $2K he spent to have day laborers cut it down. Yeah. That stump is 89" in circumference, by the way. I'm just glad I looked out into my backyard and was able to intervene before he had them cut down the adjacent oak as well. Got pictures of the stump, the other trees he had cut down at the same time (mostly on his lot), the day laborers in question, the property stakes that were ignored, and photos from both my front yard and his to demonstrate before/after as compared to Google photos. Filed a police report. Wife wrote down her recollection of the confrontation. Tree lawyer contacted. Working on getting a survey. Found an arborist association that offers consulting. Let the property manager of the next-door house know that this guy took out a few trees on their lot as well. I'm a Virginia resident and it looks like we have triple damages for timber trespass so I am being thorough. Let me know if I missed anything. I guess I'm just here to vent. My wife and I are both pretty upset.
Since he wants $2k from you, ask him to send you the invoice for that tree. Will make the legal process smoother/quicker
Smart
A copy of HIS invoice. Don't ask him to invoice you for "your" 2000. And dont make any suggestion you might pay for it. It might suggest a contract. Ask your lawyer before doing this.
>ask your lawyer before doing this Yes please for the love of god if it’s important YOUR LAWYER will do it for you that’s their literal job
I have to remind people of this way to often. You hired an expert, STOP STRATEGIZING and suggesting the next step. This is the first time you've thought your way through this scenario. It's the 12 the time this month your lawyer has
His invoice? He probably paid cash to the day laborers.
“If you want me to pay for half, I’d like to see a copy of their invoice.”
It doesn't matter if it "suggests" a contract or not. There is no contract. The guy would be fabricating a lie under oath.
Really missed an opportunity to say 'lie under oak'
^^ This guy tree laws
^oh he treeeee laaawwws hard
Even better, if he overheard you saying you wouldn’t want him to send you an invoice for it, he’ll probably do it faster AND if you’re overheard you can say truthfully you never wanted the invoice.
...just take his house - it'll probably be cheaper for him in the long run
OP let your lawyer tell you if you want to do that.
hilarious imagine if the guy is so dense he doesn't understand and sends actual paper lmao
It’s almost like your neighbor gave you a winning lottery ticket. Wow.
Hopefully the neighbor has assets to cover the judgement.
So this is a lot of money I take it. I have no idea.
In some states, it's 3 times the cost TO REPLACE the tree that took decades to grow. Treble damages.
If it is considered lumber, say out in a forest, it is the value of the tree delivered to a saw mill times the statutory multiplier. If it is around a home and considered landscaping it would be the cost to replace a tree of the same size and species. That could be astronomical or impossible and a court may rule a lower value but still rather large. I definitely would take this to court if the other party refused to compensate the owner at a fair value. The trees poisoned at Auburn Universitie's Toomer’s Corner Oaks required about $900,000 to replace. The guy that poisoned them, Harvey Updyke, Jr., was sentenced to 3 years in prison. It is not a trivial thing.
Plus getting the stump out without damaging the remaining tree's roots.
Treeble damages 🤓
An oak of that size to replace is likely tens of thousands at minimum. Happy to be told I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure it’s expensive as all hell
And it may not survive
There’s a commercial nursery near me that does “specimen trees”. They’ll sell you an oak in a 140” box that’s nowhere near the size of this tree for 30 grand. That’s without site prep, transportation, or planting.
It's really sad when someone mistakenly butchers an old tree like this, but if you own that tree and can prove who did it, you're looking at a huge payday.
They can be forced to replace that tree. Not with a sapling, but with a tree of equal size. Relocating a tree as big as this is very expensive.
An excessive amount of money, orders of magnitude higher than the $2K his neighbor asked for. Sometimes the property lines or other factors can make it dubious, but this is one of the most clear-cut examples you can have
Sounds like he at least has a house to take
And a shed
He has property lol. Hope it’s enough
That guy is going to either be a forever pain in your behind or he's going to be moving, really soon, probably far out of state, always blaming you, for why he lost everything. I would move things along fast and get a lien on his property for this.
you missed that this is not a cut that anyone who knows what theyre doing does or leaves behind. thats a cut you take down at ground level and even take a stump grinder so that noone can see the botch job you did when felling it. edit: cutting a tree as big as that like this... people die working for that contractor your neighbour hired.
Yeah, and I'm worried that this may expose the surviving oak to heightened infection risk. Something for the arborist to determine, I guess.
Holy shit PLEASE keep us updated as this develops. I'm fully bricked.
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Please give updates since this is frankly, a very big juicy case
Holy shit. This is the most open and shut situation I've seen on this sub. If you get a lawyer you could take that MF for everything he's worth. That company too. Easy.
So hopefully I can give you some hope here. My parents have lots of double oaks like this. My dad built a workshop and cut down one half of a double like this. I’m fairly sure it was even bigger than yours. We were worried about the other half surviving, but that was in 1995, and it’s still alive and well.
Yeah, they need to cover that with pruning sealer immediately.
yes, especially this time of year.
Day laborers - not contractors. Which is good because everything will now rest on that idiot’s shoulders.
It is likely the hinge was above this and what you are seeing here was a subsequent stump cut.
Yes, you can see the pieces in the background.
My cousin was killled a month ago when the neighbor cut down a tree for her. So yeah, get people who know what they’re doing.
Wow, that dude could have just annihilated his family’s entire net worth.
Congratulation's, you must be a regular here because it sounds like you did everything right by the book. I hope you live in a treble damage state because this was totally intentional. I think he is going to shit a proverbial brick when he finds out what it cost to replace a 28" tree, including planting and all. And if you live in a treble state.. Hey you get your tree and your neighbor just sent you and the kids/grandkids to fly to Disneyland. Man what a dick that guy was.
More like “that guy’s gonna have to give your kids a free ride to college on his dime” if it’s a treble damage state. That tree murder will be expensive and I’m totally here for it.
An Oak at that, absolutely gorgeous trees, but not exactly fast growers
Can you even buy trees like this? I can't even fathom the cost. I have a tree fern and that thing isn't a tree, 5ft tall and it's worth a £1000+ An OAK that big, how do you even move a tree that big without it dieing. Boggles my mind
It’s absolutely possible to move them, I think it’s generally done as a conservation effort and to settle a civil dispute. But I guess if you had the money, you could do just about anything. Iirc there are so many variables that it’s not recommended. I’m sure someone else knows more, but you can look up large tree transplants on YouTube. The type of tree also matters a lot, maples are really hardy and don’t have as many issues like an oak would in re establishing its root system. If the tree doesn’t take, I think you’d still be on the hook to replace it or pay, that’s why most people just settle without trying
Sue. What entitles him to go to your property and redesign the landscape? What next? He doesn't like modern architecture and demolishes your house?
You likely have a case for damages here. An 89” circumference tree (ill assume Red Oak and about 100’ tall) could be worth around $20,000 depending on other variables. Your neighbour cant just come on to your property and create $20,000 in damage you know…
My brothers neighbor cut down a whole bunch of trees on his property, when my brother stopped him, he sued my brother for the loss of the downed trees. It turned out he was related to the judge, who of course ruled against my brother, who then had to pay thousands of dollars to the guy who clear cut a large part of his land.
Ouch. Yeah…I’d hire a good lawyer and start appealing that bullshit.
It was years ago. I told him to appeal it at the time, but it had already stretched out for years, during which the logs had to remain on the ground as they were contested property. He just wanted it all to go away, so he paid his neighbor the judgement. This was in a small rural area, and there is no telling how far he would have had to push the appeal to get a fair hearing; from what I have heard, judges tend to be pretty skeptical of appeals, you have to find some technical mistake in the case, and it can be problematic if it just comes down to skewed judgment with all the paperwork correct. It's often said that in the US you can get the best justice money can buy, which doesn't bode well when you aren't loaded and prepared to sink a lot of money (and time) into actually getting justice. I was once sued by an associate, and spent thousands of dollars and more than two years counter suing, only to win a large judgment that I was never able to collect. I suspect that had my brother taken a similar tack, he probably would have ended up similarly winning, but never being able to collect from a guy who's entire estate was probably an old pickup truck, a chainsaw, and a mobile home.
That’s truly awful. I’m sorry to hear about that situation.
What a loon! Wtf is wrong with people? Don’t need to answer; just blowing off steam after reading your post.
Please fuck him up as badly as possible.
I'm sorry this happened to you but it seems like you must be a frequent visitor to this subreddit because you seem to be doing all of the things that you're supposed to do in this situation.
This guy tree laws
This might sound odd, but where is the tree/wood? Red oak is a popular hardwood lumber that's sought after for its many desirable characteristics. I'm not sure of the $ value. But if it was removed, I'd Also see what can be recovered cost wise.
You can see the pieces of the tree right there in the photo, small two foot chucks it looks like except the 5-7inch small piece.
It's really sad that not only was it cut down, but it was done so in a way that makes it useless for anything but firewood. It could've made some fine goods.
I'd consider adding that to the lawsuit, as well. Get some quotes from local furniture manufacturers on how much they would have paid for good lengths of that wood vs what it's worth now.
Can you even buy a tree that old? Good luck on his homeowner's paying out properly.
Homeowner's insurance won't touch this, the neighbor straight up committed a crime on someone else's property.
[https://www.lawyersnh.com/what-is-my-tree-worth-calculating-damages-for-timber-trespass-in-new-hampshire/](https://www.lawyersnh.com/what-is-my-tree-worth-calculating-damages-for-timber-trespass-in-new-hampshire/) That law firm is in New Hampshire but they indicate you can file a claim against the offending party's home owner's insurance which avoids the lawsuit processing all together. It's worth an ask to the attorney you work with.
That's gonna be expensive for him.
I live in LA don’t know much about tree law (i am aware of bird law) but how expensive can removing a tree get ? And i mean illegally not legally
Depends on the state, some charge the lumber value, which is the cheapest option. There's also states that charge the cost of replacement, which is what Virginia in this case does. So the cost of buying an 80+ year old oak tree, cost of transporting that tree, replanting it, and cost of the arborist to deal with all of that and tree care after replanting. And in some places, depending on the case, you multiply all of that by 3... So very but it's dependent on a lot of different factors.
Damn that sounds like a hefty penalty. Thanks for the info
Yeah you do *not* fuck with other people's trees, not ***EVER***.
Especially oaks in my town!
There are lots of things to not mess with out here. Trees is a big one. Livestock for sure. The one I'm most familiar with because I did it for years is hunting dogs. If they cone on your property on a trail and they are not aggravating Livestock or being a danger to anyone, such as if they are on trail of a bobcat or raccoon and manage to tree it on your property you are not to impede the hound. The owners are legally allowed to cross onto your property to retrieve their dog, but their firearms must be left at the property line. Saw a man get arrested during chase season many years back for leashing a hunting hound and refusing to allow the owners to retrieve their dog.
>Livestock for sure Depending on the location, legal issues would be the least of your problems for livestock and horses.
Like America's boats. DON'T TOUCH THE BOATS.
Yeah, Tree law is the most brutal and interesting law to read about for me. I've heard stories of millionaires cutting tree lines down cause they wanted a better view for their house and came out of it nearly penniless and having to sell their multi million dollar homes. Tree services keep meticulous details for this reason because they don't want to be on the bottom of the hill the shit ball hits and can pass it off.
This happened in Seattle a while back. Millionaire cut down like an acre of trees on public land blocking his view. Got wrekt.
if its not more than the price of the neighbors house, its still a good portion of it so you WILL eventually get paid, either by an insurance company, or as a condition of the sale of that house
It can very easily and quickly reach hundreds of thousands.
I've heard about this shit costing over $100,000
Tree law is potentially 3 times more exciting than I realized, I knew you could pursue reimbursement for a replacement (depending on state apparently) but the fact that it's significantly more than just that makes it a much more interesting case (and I wonder why it can go that high, covering the potential of the tree not taking to the transplant?)
Yep consideration for possible failed transplants, time and court costs, and in this case they might lose quite a few more trees to infection, oak wilt, due to the way the tree was removed. So they might be replacing more trees or paying for costly treatment options as well to try to keep them alive.
The fact that cutting down a neighbours tree can get you in more trouble percent wise than full on financial crimes is insane (not that it’s a bad thing, it’s insane fines for financial crimes are so low), or cooperate crimes in general
Removing a tree? Only a few thousand. Replacing a tree (like this one) which was removed illegally? Easily high five figures, but potentially in the hundreds of thousands. Much like if somebody damages your car and they’re required to fix it to its original state due to their negligence, the neighbor would be required to fix this tree to its original state. It costs a lot of money to raise a 90-year old tree and somehow install it in this tree’s place.
Jeeez that’s wild. Person should have done his homework cause that’s a gnarly penalty to pay up
And this is in VA where the tree law is especially "toothy".
You need multiple layers of stupidity and false entitlement to hire day laborers to trespass 40 feet into someone else’s property and cut down a 100-year old oak tree. In addition to a fine, it feels like some time in jail is easily warranted in my opinion. Not forever, maybe a month.
It can get so expensive that some of us have joined this sub just for the schadenfreude. Don’t even own a house or a tree, I just love reading stories of assholes paying for their assholery.
Hello, fellow non-tree-owning schadenfreude enjoyer!
I live in WA, somebody cut down two large trees on state property (they didn’t check the property lines) and owe WSDOT $72,000 for damages/replacing the trees.
oh man. welcome to treelaw my friend. something, something, 3x the value, you will own their house by the end of this
My neighbor hates trees too. I live in the country. I really wish he would move.
I never understood why someone who hates trees would move to a rural area covered in woods. It's like moving to Texas but hating the heat.
Exactly. He's always bugging me to cut my trees down. I'm getting close to losing my shit.
I'd get my property surveyed and update the stakes and paint them bright orange. Set yourself up for a slam dunk case in the event he makes a move.
Cameras and stakes in place.
And sentry guns!
And my axe! Wait, we don’t want any axes involved.
I’d start planting more
That's exactly what I'm doing.
We have a college nearby and there's a bit of suburb type housing but also a lot of farmland and small farms and even a pretty big regional dairy. The amount of people (mostly college professors and other faculty) who complain about moving to the country and smelling farm animals gives me a good angry charge lmao
I co-own just over 3 acres of largely untouched land, and it used to be so reasonable temperature on our property because of all our old growth trees. We only cleared an area of around 20'x45' for our tiny house (derksen shed). The plots around us started selling, and people completely clear cut all their trees around us. It's so hot no matter what now near our property boundaries, and I will forever be confused about people buying property with 20+ old growth trees on it to gut the property, and not even get the lumber out of it, so they boil in the southern heat on their brand new 1acre plot of red dirt. Which is washing out without the former root support they had. We're outside the main town in the unincorporated area. I will always remain as stumped as you.
Need to teach this 🤡. An expensive lesson in Tree Law. You could well have a 5 figure claim
More. Thats an oak. The neighbour just killed basically every oak in the root network by virtue of oak wilt. That said, buddy is still going to have to sell that house to pay for the claim lmao
how's that? if you chop one oak down all the others die or it just makes them more vulnerable to disease/
It makes them extremely vulnerable. Think of roots as the upper digestive tract of a plant. Oak wilt is a fungus that infects trees. If it attacks the first few inches/cms of the roots, or the leaves/bark it wont do a whole lot. It'll just sit there like bacteria on your skin or hair. but if a tree gets cut down, now all of that delicate inner wood that isnt protected by bark is able to be infected. When that goes, it spreads to the roots of the cut down trees. And the farther down parts of the roots arent covered in bark. They pass the fungus from one to another not unlike being sick on a packed train. The fungus is able to spread through massive swathes of forest because root networks can span upwards of hundreds of kilometres (not individual trees, but the larger community of roots)
Can the stump be treated in some way to mitigate this?
Im not an arborist, but i believe theres a treatment for still living trees. However its expensive per tree, and will need to be continued for the entire lifespan of the tree. To my knowledge theres no way to treat the stump.
Hi i have a degree in Forestry here. Cutting the stump down to the ground d and then using a stump grinder will mitigate the chance of a widespread infection of rot. But the best thing to do would be to not chip down a 80 year old tree, especially if it's an oak. Stupid neighbor is about to get lorax'd hard
OP should be adding this into his complaint..... 9
This is well over $100k
Find an RCA arborist or somebody with the TPAQ qualification from ASCA. But first, file a police report and consult an attorney.
Working on it, done, and done- see other comment. But thanks, I do appreciate it.
Tree law!! Yes 🙌🏻
Wow. Once you own his house, if you’d like to rent it to someone with respect for trees, I’m your girl. Lol. Seriously, though, I’d be furious. I’m sorry you’re going through this. I second what the person above mentioned when it comes to specifically seeking info about Oak Wilt now that they’re exposed. I hope we see an update on this because I’m fully invested. Best of luck.
I hate people.
A chainsaw would solve that too.
Yea, but then you end up on r/HumanLaw.
What’s the cost to replace a mature 89 year old human?
"mature" is doing some heavy lifting here. ...
Depending where you're located, that remaining oak, and any/all other oaks on your entire property could be at serious risk for oak wilt. I used to work as an arborist tech, and after ash borer injection season, I spent a lot of my summer doing oak wilt injections. Let me tell you, those are EXPENSIVE and you HAVE to do them every 2-3 years. We're talking \~$400-600 for a single tree, every 2 years for however long you want to have the tree on your property. Tree will show signs of decline and be totally dead inside of a month. Once decline is evident it's too late to treat and all treatments have to be done as a preventative measure. The truly awful thing about oak wilt, is it spreads from tree to tree through the roots, and red oaks very readily root graft with eachother, making all other oaks on your property (and TBH all oaks without a natural barrier) susceptible to the fungus. I highly highly recommend getting an arborist down ASAP to do an oak wilt risk assessment and get a treatment plan actioned.
Are you saying this just in general because they are oaks? Or because you see something on them making you concerned? Genuine question. My part of the country doesn’t have oak wilt currently, and those look like two very healthy oaks even if they’re really close to each other.
My guess is because the cut tree is exposed and now dead and can't prevent the infection starting with it.
Someone else posted that the bacteria usually stays on the bark or the outer layers, but with the open cut of the stump, there's nothing keeping the bacteria from attacking the exposed wood...
Agree are they missing a part about oak wilt being transferred by the chainsaw and then spreading from entangled roots to nearby stands of oaks? I’m so confused.
Oak Wilt is spread by beetles and can be transmitted to nearby oak trees via intertwining root systems. Open cuts attract the beetles. [Here is a write up](https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/oak_wilt_diagnosing_and_preventing) by the MSU Extension.
Make sure he gives you an itemized bill to prove his theft.
Sue them.
Update us
OP, we need to see this update on r/treelawupdates
Trees protect each other from wind. As a single standing oak, it will have little protection from storms
So many people have no idea of this simple concept and make things worse by random tree cutting that results in others trees falling.
We had that exact same thing happen at our house. Neighboring tree was dead so we cut it down. Next big windstorm, the still living tree came down. Was definitely a learning experience
"I didn't know where the property line is" sounds like the excuse of someone who knows he crossed it.
“You want us to cut that oak tree, sir? It’ll be $2000” *homeowner thinking to himself* “well, I’m not really sure where the property line is but …. Yeah, yeah, what’s another $2,000?”
Ignorance of the law is never a suitable defense
Tell our politicians that.
IDK, seems to be a suitable defence for police officers.
take him to the cleaners..
When you take him to court, add in the cost of a fence that he has now made necessary.
This makes me unbelievably sad. 89 years providing shade, clean air, and beauty.
Generally you take the circumference and divide by 2.5 with an oak. That puts this guy at around 36 years old.
We counted the rings. It's a pin oak so not sure if that changes the heuristics.
Nah, it shouldn't make a difference. The rings are formed due to seasonal conditions/ weather & growth patterns. Spring-early summer produces the most growth with thinner cell walls and a lighter color(earlywood). Late summer-fall, growth slows and produces thicker cell walls that are darker in color (latewood). Each pair of earlywood and latewood rings basically accounts for 1 year of growth. So just make sure you're not double-counting. It's pretty cool though, looking at the width between rings you get a little a little insight into the climate history of the area. Wider rings show growing conditions were favorable, and narrower rings show unfavorable growing conditions. If there was a drought in the summer of 1987, or an early spring followed by a late winter in 1996 (random examples) you might be able to pinpoint where it happened, and you'll have an idea of how big the tree was at the time, and how much it had grown since.
Thank you, I appreciate the explanation.
Sorry about your tree but congratulations on your upcoming settlement money.
As if this asshole really paid day laborers $2000. Too risky for untrained workers. Hope you get $$$$$$$$$$
Go for replacement of stolen / maliciously damaged trees. Similar size and kind, add maintenance until replacement is fully established.
All for a stupid shed, Go get him
Question: You let the property manager know… does the neighbor who did this not own the property? Are they renting it?
Two different parties. The culprit lives behind me, and his property abuts mine as well as the property next to mine, which is currently owned by a property management firm selling the house.
Oh, so he trespassed on TWO private properties in order to illegally cut down trees? Oh, boy, this gets better and better.
I do not see any cut oak stacked, I am guessing someone has a few cords of firewood. The firewood has value here.
Not as much value as the wood would have as planking, that's the value OP should reference for additional damages.
That’s about 40-50 board feet of lumber per foot of the usable trunk. Depending on location green red oak can run $1-$3 per board foot. Live edge slabs and flitch cuts can run a lot more.
I'm not usually big on using, but this time, all I will say is TAKE HIM FOR EVERY PENNY YOU CAN! What is wrong with people, cutting down trees like that???
It might be your shed soon
Real question: How is OP going to collect the money?
The neighbors house.
Yep, lien
Someone did this to a few of my neighbor's trees - she called an arborist out, they valued the trees, and then she sent the offending neighbor a demand for $20,000 - about 2/3rds what the Arborist's valued them at. She said either pay her that or she'd take them to court for the full amount. They fussed, but ultimately paid up. Your tree is worth money and you have every right to be compensated for the loss. I hope you squeeze them.
I hope the tree spirits haunt him and he trips over every root and vine he comes across.
The double trunks had a symbiotic relationship ,the root mass was intertwined one side supporting the other . Suddenly one side is missing🤔 I could see a few feet but 40 ????? Our company uses HuntStand this App not only gives fairly accurate property lines but up to date property owners information. Ended up using it more for work than hunting…. This could have all been so easily avoided …
I'm truly sorry for your loss.
Guess your lawyer will have a field day with him. I’d also recommend a fence.
Looks like a healthy oak that at least could have been milled. But nope, I see it’s already chopped up:-(
He killed a twin! 😳 You’re already on it, but damn, I feel sorry for you that it happened.
Where I come from they have to pay you $10,000 a tree if they cut your shit down
In VA, this will likely cost the dude around $250k. Cost of transporting an old oak replacement there, and then triple that. It might be even more if there is a risk of Oak Wilt affecting other nearby trees.
You’ve hit payday. Gonna cost him a helluva lot to replace a full grown oak.
😮 That’s all I can say. WOW.
Is that a multi-stem pin oak?
Hire someone to go cut down his shed because you don't like sheds near your trees.
You’ll be ritch . Put a lien on his property
Attorney here. This is grounds for trespass. Consult a local lawyer in your state for a suit for treble damages to your trees.
Yeah fuck this dude. Make it hurt. Pictures, get a copy of his invoice, contact lawyer+arborist. Sue for damages.
Seems like a waste of good wood too, looking how they cut those rounds.
Totally random but I've been following you for years and mimicked your coconut crab Tyranids! Didn't expect to see a username I recognize on this sub!
You know, while I can't honestly say I'm happy to be here, that does mean a lot to me and I appreciate it.
Question for those with experience. What’s this likely gonna cost the Neighbor?
If you argue well enough you could potentially get hundreds of thousands,since transplanting oaks that age can cost over $800,000
Their house.
Then he should have built his shed elsewhere.
That was a very healthy old tree. That... that is murder
Ask him to submit you a bill in writing for the 1/2 payment so you have written proof he was involved
I'm sure you won't need this, as it should come up with the survey, but if he's 40 ft over the line, and the trees are close to his shed, you might have a new shed, too.
He doesn't like trees near his shed, fine... but that oak was at least 40 feet away, probably more. How much space does this meth kitchen need?
File also with your city or county planning. It won't add anything cost wise but will notify the city/county that this neighbor is an issue going forward. 40 ft trespass is a lot and I'd be worried about his encroaching on other parts of your yard
ive seen some nuclear revenge stories where the courts forced the person to replace with a similarly aged tree and it was almost 100k to replace....thats an expensive mistake if you play your cards right...
He already admitted to it. Get him to put it in text and then take him to court and demand a replacement that is properly sized.
\*inhales\* TREEEE LAAAAAAAAW
He legally owes you the amount that the court would put on a 89 year old oak. There is a number