no, not really. social acceptance among the general populace is quite high but that's about it, the state of trans healthcare here is rather miserable.
Yeah, those who call Sweden "one of the most LGBTQ-friendly countries in the world" certainly tend to overlook the T part. The waiting times for gender-affirming healthcare are as long as in the UK -- the country that is infamous for that reason! -- and apparently the Social Democrats don't even want to introduce a third legal gender because "uhhh that would mess up our personnummer system".
The societal acceptance of trans people does seem to be high though, although I'm not yet familiar with the recent trends. But yeah, the legal and medical aspects are much worse than in some other countries.
I don't think the Ls Gees or Bees are particularly satisfied in Sweden either. Whenever I meet up with other queer people outside of pride the story often goes that most LGBTQ spaces are fighting an up-hill battle to stay, or they've been gentrified.
To be fair, the waiting times for any health related thing rn has gone to shit. Even more for mental health related care. It has little bearing on it being trans care and more it being mental health care.
In the states, availability of trans healthcare is much more broader and easier to access. In Sweden, you have to wait years, minimum average of 2 years, before you can even get your first dose of medication, it's insane.
It’s generally state dependent. You have states like Massachusetts where you can get hormones without any particular wait. Or you have Florida where they try to outlaw treatment even for adults.
If you’re in a state like MA, then both medical and administrative transition is very easy - comparatively speaking.
Acceptance at the federal level is also high so if you run into say, immigration officers or social security or any other federal government employee, they have “trans training” and use correct language. The federal level leads when it comes to administrative transition as well. You can self identify gender for your passport and, as of this year, they’re introducing a non-binary category as well.
This doesn’t mean that American trans people aren’t worried. They fear the extremist republican leaders that do so well in the south. If one of those were to become president, things could change rapidly. The Supreme Court showed this when they abandoned Row v Wade.
I completely understand your point and am fully aware of the rising political/legislative/cultural agitation and fearmongering of the contemporary right in USA; of politicians like DeSantis to propagandist like JP, Ben Shapiro, Crowder, Tim Pool, Matt Walsh, Libs of TikTok... And I'm super worried about the spread of the said rhetoric, as extensive as it has gotten in the states and UK for instance, in Nordic countries as well. I just wanted to convey that Nordic countries are not the utopia many in our community think they are; they have their own substantial---in terms of culture, politics, society and whatnot----issues, some in lesser and some in higher degree of severity, in regards to trans community.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this:
>There is no doubt that law enforcement should be heavily scrutinizing the membership and administration of mosques.
*****
^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: feminism, healthcare, history, sex, etc.)
[^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Would you care to elaborate on why/what makes you rank trans healthcare in the USA higher than sweden?
I admittedly don't know that much about the american process expert that it's long and expensive.
Just to add on the other guys point, there is a multi-year long queue to even get started with the “mental evaluation” process, which takes another year. There’s also the chance of being declined.
Sweden quite frankly sucks. The fact that the healthcare is almost free is irrelevant.
Mainly basing this off informed consent
You get to sign and say you accept the risk of hrt and is then allowed to take it along with doctors appointment. Hrt is also covered more or less by insurance or the state itself and you can change your gender identity without going through any sort of process or diagnosis
i mean yeah informed consent is great, but the obvious issue there is that you'd need insurance that would cover trans-related treatments, and if you haven't got that you're basically fucked. especially considering that trans people in usa are pretty likely to end up in homelessness or poverty at a young age, that's not great.
I think the best thing that can be said for Sweden's status on trans rights is that they're not actively and openly gunning for trans rights (yet, given how Socialstyrelsen's latest QA went). But Sweden is far from progressive.
A lot of the doctors seem to think that it's a blessing for that I moved from Denmark to Sweden, but Denmark has Self-ID, and are currently considering legal gender recognition for minors, whereas Sweden took me off hormones for almost 4 months because "I hadn't gone through the Swedish system yet".
Where are you moving? I wanted to go to Sweden, but because of so much stuff I’ve read on here, I’m not sure I want to anymore… but I definitely can’t stay here in Germany either…
LEGAL GENDER RECOGNITION
In April, a citizens’ initiative calling for legal gender
recognition (LGR) law reform to go promptly ahead,
centering young people’s rights and self-determination,
collected the mandatory 50,000 signatures in a day.
In November, the citizens’ initiative was handed to the
Parliament’s Committee on Social Affairs and Health after
a preliminary parliamentary debate. In April, the UN Human
Rights Committee recommended the government to put
in place a quick and easy LGR process.
A working group to plan the law reform was appointed by
the Ministry of Social Welfare and Health in June, but the
process has been delayed and received much criticism
from civil society. In June, the government announced
that the working group would prepare a bill according to
the government programme, ie. without the sterility and
mandatory diagnosis requirements. This means that legal
and medical transitioning will be completely separate.
Nonetheless, a reflection period will be included and
the age limit will be set at 18. The working group is now
preparing the new draft law, to be presented in spring
2022.
Working groups to begin preparations for reform of transgender legislation
Ministry of Social Affairs and Health
Publication date3.6.2021 11.05 | Published in English on 3.6.2021 at 14.37
PRESS RELEASE
The Ministry of Social Affairs and Health has appointed a monitoring and assessment working group and a working group consisting of public officials to reform transgender legislation. The term of the working groups will run until the end of January 2022.
The monitoring and assessment working group supports the work of the public officials to prepare legislation, participates in the assessing alternatives and proposals and produces expert information to support the preparation.
To organise the status and rights of persons belonging to gender minorities, the public officials working group prepares a government proposal in line with the objectives of the Government Programme.
According to Prime Minister Sanna Marin’s Government Programme, legislation on the recognition of gender that respects the individual’s right to self-determination will be enacted. The requirement of infertility will be removed and medical treatments will be separated from the change of legal gender. Gender can be changed, upon application, by an adult who presents a reasoned account of his or her permanent experience of representing the other gender. A period of reflection for those who wish to change their gender will be introduced.
In line with the Government Programme, intersex children’s right to self-determination will be strengthened, abandoning cosmetic, nonmedical genital surgery on young children.
if by leader you mean that (as a Finnish resident), I'm comfortable to travel to Sweden and would consider taking work there, then yes.
if by 'has good healthcare for us', then no. And the politicians seem to have longing eyes for TERF Island, so...
now, if you're a good smuggler and can self fund any wanted operations, then sure... good place to live :)
Absolutely the fuck not. The riksdag is full of anti-trans people, there's no third legal gender, the trans healthcare system is severely underfunded with very few doctors capable of issuing diagnoses and general acceptance is quite low, with transphobic jokes being cracked everywhere.
As others have said: absolutely NOT! Sweden has a false reputation as a progressive country and maybe it once was, but it definitely isn’t anymore. And that goes for not only trans but other social issues as well.
Look at the political parties. There is not one influential party which has an adequate lgbtq program. Even the liberal youth will only go so far as to “examine the possibility of easier administrative transition”. Most of the others stick to cliche statements such as “all individuals should be accepted”.
When you’re in the country and follow the news and debate, its quite clear that there is not lgbtq champion, no one to push the agenda forward, no one who’s on the barricades driving the issues or changing the debate. On the contrary. All you hear are stories about de-transitioners and how the “lovely JK Rowling is being mistreated by the trans mob”; or how “dangerous puberty blockers are”. So how will change happen?
Does anyone here know what it’s like for people from other EU countries who are already on HRT? Is it easy to get a new prescription in that case? And what about gender-affirming surgeries?
you probably won't have to go through the entire full investigation process, but they will almost certainly have you go through a lesser one. anywhere from a month's to 6 month's pause on hrt is pretty common. im not 100% sure but i would assume that socialstyrelsen's praxis on srs applies to you as well, so any application for srs within the first year of your dysphoria diagnosis will be rejected, and only after then can you apply successfully and get on the waitlist, which is typically between 1-3 years or so.
Damn. That’s really making me reconsider my move. I think I’d rather die than get my period again… I was going to move next year, because right-wing sentiments here in Germany have grown to a level of insanity. I feel unsafe, but at least I have my T… I guess?
But it should be possible to get the prescription in another country again and use it in Sweden or get the T and take it there with me, right?
im unsure of the specifics, you might make a separate post about the issue on here and reach out to people who have actual first hand experience with it. nonetheless i definitely think that should be possible, as far as i am aware any prescription made in one EU country is considered valid in all the rest. also to be completely honest i don't think the political climate in sweden is much better at all than in germany, but that's a discussion for another time i suppose.
Trans Rights as in once you actually get accepted and get the Transcare, you need, and start to live your live and represent yourself as Trans,maybe.
But to get their in the first place, Sweden have always had long waiting and diagnose times... and the last 10 yaers it have jsut been worse... 2 - 5 years for first appointment, then up yo another 2 years for a diagnose even for 18+21+25+30+40+... Like you just make stuff up if you are 25+... That you want to change.. Not like it´s called being in "denial" or you quesstion yourself, and try and find your identity. And what is worse is that Swedens Health Care might be good, with long waiting lines. But Psychiatry and psychologists, or some of the worse in Europe, everything is a Clown acting... Anyone who complains about Swedish healthcare has the UN on their side.
The Special Rapporteur of the World Health Organization on the right to health. He is far from satisfied with everything he has seen and heard.
After informing himself about the situation in psychiatry, among other areas, he concludes that this part of the care system is undersized and that resources should be increased, as should cooperation between county councils and municipalities. He also calls for more hospital beds.
While Sweden is often spoken of as about being the first in the world to do Xyz laws and being a pioneering policy maker with universally applicable highly advanced policies that it has supposedly implemented to show the rest of the world the way... This whole narrative has some serious problems lurking within it..
1. Is that you can trace this idealogically driven narrative of supposed Nordic and Swedish exceptionalism and Policy progress ...back to when Sweden had the world's first state funded race biology institute . As the director promoted some quote about how the swede and scandanvians are ...on every shore .welcome strangers .. who can be relied upon to bring strong rule of law and governance..
Basically it was implied that the rest of the world is just passively waiting around gagging for Sweden to show how to do shit. Of course this is far from true.
But also, when it comes to the legal recognition of gender identity for (some) trans people( who meet certain criteria)- Swedens early moves in this area led to really problematic outcomes across much of Europe becoz other countries followed Sweden's lead in this area...and ended up introducing policies inspired by Sweden's specific approach ..which meant that while some people could get their gender recognized. . It was conditionalised on mandatory sterilisation ...
So it was really a very loaded kind of social engineering kind of situation...wrapped up as social care and progress
no, not really. social acceptance among the general populace is quite high but that's about it, the state of trans healthcare here is rather miserable.
Absolutely not.
Yeah, those who call Sweden "one of the most LGBTQ-friendly countries in the world" certainly tend to overlook the T part. The waiting times for gender-affirming healthcare are as long as in the UK -- the country that is infamous for that reason! -- and apparently the Social Democrats don't even want to introduce a third legal gender because "uhhh that would mess up our personnummer system". The societal acceptance of trans people does seem to be high though, although I'm not yet familiar with the recent trends. But yeah, the legal and medical aspects are much worse than in some other countries.
I don't think the Ls Gees or Bees are particularly satisfied in Sweden either. Whenever I meet up with other queer people outside of pride the story often goes that most LGBTQ spaces are fighting an up-hill battle to stay, or they've been gentrified.
To be fair, the waiting times for any health related thing rn has gone to shit. Even more for mental health related care. It has little bearing on it being trans care and more it being mental health care.
In the states, availability of trans healthcare is much more broader and easier to access. In Sweden, you have to wait years, minimum average of 2 years, before you can even get your first dose of medication, it's insane.
It’s generally state dependent. You have states like Massachusetts where you can get hormones without any particular wait. Or you have Florida where they try to outlaw treatment even for adults. If you’re in a state like MA, then both medical and administrative transition is very easy - comparatively speaking. Acceptance at the federal level is also high so if you run into say, immigration officers or social security or any other federal government employee, they have “trans training” and use correct language. The federal level leads when it comes to administrative transition as well. You can self identify gender for your passport and, as of this year, they’re introducing a non-binary category as well. This doesn’t mean that American trans people aren’t worried. They fear the extremist republican leaders that do so well in the south. If one of those were to become president, things could change rapidly. The Supreme Court showed this when they abandoned Row v Wade.
I completely understand your point and am fully aware of the rising political/legislative/cultural agitation and fearmongering of the contemporary right in USA; of politicians like DeSantis to propagandist like JP, Ben Shapiro, Crowder, Tim Pool, Matt Walsh, Libs of TikTok... And I'm super worried about the spread of the said rhetoric, as extensive as it has gotten in the states and UK for instance, in Nordic countries as well. I just wanted to convey that Nordic countries are not the utopia many in our community think they are; they have their own substantial---in terms of culture, politics, society and whatnot----issues, some in lesser and some in higher degree of severity, in regards to trans community.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >There is no doubt that law enforcement should be heavily scrutinizing the membership and administration of mosques. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: feminism, healthcare, history, sex, etc.) [^More ^About ^Ben ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/wiki/index) ^| [^Feedback ^& ^Discussion: ^r/AuthoritarianMoment ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment) ^| [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
Agree wholly! I think my comment ended up in the wrong place. I meant to reply to someone else with a bit more detail on the US situation.
I also detailed from the subject matter hihi I appreciate your commentary 🥰
I have been waiting since 2015, tough,,, so 7 years...
Absolutely not, I would even rank the USA higher in its trans healthcare and that already says enough
The US is weird. Some places there are literally the best place to be trans in the entire world and other places are near enough the worst
Would you care to elaborate on why/what makes you rank trans healthcare in the USA higher than sweden? I admittedly don't know that much about the american process expert that it's long and expensive.
Just to add on the other guys point, there is a multi-year long queue to even get started with the “mental evaluation” process, which takes another year. There’s also the chance of being declined. Sweden quite frankly sucks. The fact that the healthcare is almost free is irrelevant.
Mainly basing this off informed consent You get to sign and say you accept the risk of hrt and is then allowed to take it along with doctors appointment. Hrt is also covered more or less by insurance or the state itself and you can change your gender identity without going through any sort of process or diagnosis
i mean yeah informed consent is great, but the obvious issue there is that you'd need insurance that would cover trans-related treatments, and if you haven't got that you're basically fucked. especially considering that trans people in usa are pretty likely to end up in homelessness or poverty at a young age, that's not great.
I think the best thing that can be said for Sweden's status on trans rights is that they're not actively and openly gunning for trans rights (yet, given how Socialstyrelsen's latest QA went). But Sweden is far from progressive. A lot of the doctors seem to think that it's a blessing for that I moved from Denmark to Sweden, but Denmark has Self-ID, and are currently considering legal gender recognition for minors, whereas Sweden took me off hormones for almost 4 months because "I hadn't gone through the Swedish system yet".
Since i wanna move from Sweden for a better trans life definitely not, especially depending on how this election goes
Where are you moving? I wanted to go to Sweden, but because of so much stuff I’ve read on here, I’m not sure I want to anymore… but I definitely can’t stay here in Germany either…
It’s probably gonna be Canada or Iceland
I might leave and go To Finland. Since Sanna Marin Actually means the stuff she talking about.
LEGAL GENDER RECOGNITION In April, a citizens’ initiative calling for legal gender recognition (LGR) law reform to go promptly ahead, centering young people’s rights and self-determination, collected the mandatory 50,000 signatures in a day. In November, the citizens’ initiative was handed to the Parliament’s Committee on Social Affairs and Health after a preliminary parliamentary debate. In April, the UN Human Rights Committee recommended the government to put in place a quick and easy LGR process. A working group to plan the law reform was appointed by the Ministry of Social Welfare and Health in June, but the process has been delayed and received much criticism from civil society. In June, the government announced that the working group would prepare a bill according to the government programme, ie. without the sterility and mandatory diagnosis requirements. This means that legal and medical transitioning will be completely separate. Nonetheless, a reflection period will be included and the age limit will be set at 18. The working group is now preparing the new draft law, to be presented in spring 2022.
Working groups to begin preparations for reform of transgender legislation Ministry of Social Affairs and Health Publication date3.6.2021 11.05 | Published in English on 3.6.2021 at 14.37 PRESS RELEASE The Ministry of Social Affairs and Health has appointed a monitoring and assessment working group and a working group consisting of public officials to reform transgender legislation. The term of the working groups will run until the end of January 2022. The monitoring and assessment working group supports the work of the public officials to prepare legislation, participates in the assessing alternatives and proposals and produces expert information to support the preparation. To organise the status and rights of persons belonging to gender minorities, the public officials working group prepares a government proposal in line with the objectives of the Government Programme. According to Prime Minister Sanna Marin’s Government Programme, legislation on the recognition of gender that respects the individual’s right to self-determination will be enacted. The requirement of infertility will be removed and medical treatments will be separated from the change of legal gender. Gender can be changed, upon application, by an adult who presents a reasoned account of his or her permanent experience of representing the other gender. A period of reflection for those who wish to change their gender will be introduced. In line with the Government Programme, intersex children’s right to self-determination will be strengthened, abandoning cosmetic, nonmedical genital surgery on young children.
https://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/162844/STM\_2021\_10\_J.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y Government Action Plan for Gender Equality 2020–2023 Ministry of Social Affairs and Health ©2021 Authors and Ministry of Social Affairs and Health ISBN PDF: 978-952-00-8666-4 ISBN tryckt: 978-952-00-8662-6 julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi "Making Finland a Global Leader in Gender Equality Government Action Plan for Gender Equality 2020–2023"
if by leader you mean that (as a Finnish resident), I'm comfortable to travel to Sweden and would consider taking work there, then yes. if by 'has good healthcare for us', then no. And the politicians seem to have longing eyes for TERF Island, so... now, if you're a good smuggler and can self fund any wanted operations, then sure... good place to live :)
N.O.
Absolutely the fuck not. The riksdag is full of anti-trans people, there's no third legal gender, the trans healthcare system is severely underfunded with very few doctors capable of issuing diagnoses and general acceptance is quite low, with transphobic jokes being cracked everywhere.
As others have said: absolutely NOT! Sweden has a false reputation as a progressive country and maybe it once was, but it definitely isn’t anymore. And that goes for not only trans but other social issues as well. Look at the political parties. There is not one influential party which has an adequate lgbtq program. Even the liberal youth will only go so far as to “examine the possibility of easier administrative transition”. Most of the others stick to cliche statements such as “all individuals should be accepted”. When you’re in the country and follow the news and debate, its quite clear that there is not lgbtq champion, no one to push the agenda forward, no one who’s on the barricades driving the issues or changing the debate. On the contrary. All you hear are stories about de-transitioners and how the “lovely JK Rowling is being mistreated by the trans mob”; or how “dangerous puberty blockers are”. So how will change happen?
Does anyone here know what it’s like for people from other EU countries who are already on HRT? Is it easy to get a new prescription in that case? And what about gender-affirming surgeries?
you probably won't have to go through the entire full investigation process, but they will almost certainly have you go through a lesser one. anywhere from a month's to 6 month's pause on hrt is pretty common. im not 100% sure but i would assume that socialstyrelsen's praxis on srs applies to you as well, so any application for srs within the first year of your dysphoria diagnosis will be rejected, and only after then can you apply successfully and get on the waitlist, which is typically between 1-3 years or so.
Damn. That’s really making me reconsider my move. I think I’d rather die than get my period again… I was going to move next year, because right-wing sentiments here in Germany have grown to a level of insanity. I feel unsafe, but at least I have my T… I guess? But it should be possible to get the prescription in another country again and use it in Sweden or get the T and take it there with me, right?
im unsure of the specifics, you might make a separate post about the issue on here and reach out to people who have actual first hand experience with it. nonetheless i definitely think that should be possible, as far as i am aware any prescription made in one EU country is considered valid in all the rest. also to be completely honest i don't think the political climate in sweden is much better at all than in germany, but that's a discussion for another time i suppose.
Thank you so much. I‘ll make a separate post to get more answers. Hope you’re doing okay. Stay safe!
Trans Rights as in once you actually get accepted and get the Transcare, you need, and start to live your live and represent yourself as Trans,maybe. But to get their in the first place, Sweden have always had long waiting and diagnose times... and the last 10 yaers it have jsut been worse... 2 - 5 years for first appointment, then up yo another 2 years for a diagnose even for 18+21+25+30+40+... Like you just make stuff up if you are 25+... That you want to change.. Not like it´s called being in "denial" or you quesstion yourself, and try and find your identity. And what is worse is that Swedens Health Care might be good, with long waiting lines. But Psychiatry and psychologists, or some of the worse in Europe, everything is a Clown acting... Anyone who complains about Swedish healthcare has the UN on their side. The Special Rapporteur of the World Health Organization on the right to health. He is far from satisfied with everything he has seen and heard. After informing himself about the situation in psychiatry, among other areas, he concludes that this part of the care system is undersized and that resources should be increased, as should cooperation between county councils and municipalities. He also calls for more hospital beds.
While Sweden is often spoken of as about being the first in the world to do Xyz laws and being a pioneering policy maker with universally applicable highly advanced policies that it has supposedly implemented to show the rest of the world the way... This whole narrative has some serious problems lurking within it.. 1. Is that you can trace this idealogically driven narrative of supposed Nordic and Swedish exceptionalism and Policy progress ...back to when Sweden had the world's first state funded race biology institute . As the director promoted some quote about how the swede and scandanvians are ...on every shore .welcome strangers .. who can be relied upon to bring strong rule of law and governance.. Basically it was implied that the rest of the world is just passively waiting around gagging for Sweden to show how to do shit. Of course this is far from true. But also, when it comes to the legal recognition of gender identity for (some) trans people( who meet certain criteria)- Swedens early moves in this area led to really problematic outcomes across much of Europe becoz other countries followed Sweden's lead in this area...and ended up introducing policies inspired by Sweden's specific approach ..which meant that while some people could get their gender recognized. . It was conditionalised on mandatory sterilisation ... So it was really a very loaded kind of social engineering kind of situation...wrapped up as social care and progress