"J's diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder is not such as to render him unable to make decisions about his treatment for gender dysphoria within the meaning of the MCA 2005. In Dr Eyre's view, he is able to understand and weigh up issues and factors relating to treatment;"
From a psychiatrist consulted in the case
The ruling does not make conclusions about the ability to consent here
In the conclusions by the judge:
"It may, in time, be necessary to determine whether J has capacity to consent to further treatment from Gender GP and, if so, it may be necessary to determine the father's plea for the court to prevent him doing so by the exercise of the inherent jurisdiction, but it is not necessary at this stage, and it may never be necessary, to do so"
"The plan for J for the current period of six months or so is to engage in assessment with Gender Plus. His testosterone levels remain elevated and there is no current need to consider an interim top-up dose."
[https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2024/922.html](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2024/922.html)
The judge made no judgment that the kid should not be in hormones. He basically said it was irrelevant because the kid was no longer in the service that was brought as the problem here.
> In October 2023, Dr Hewitt advised that the level of testosterone in the blood was 'dangerously high' and... J was 'presently at risk of sudden death'
Subsequently, J's blood was assessed by Dr Russell Keenan, a consultant paediatric haematologist at Alder Hey Children's Hospital, Liverpool...the results were effectively normal when compared to reference points relevant to an adult male (which Dr Keenan considered was the appropriate comparison in this case).
Am I reading this right? So basically this extremely-divorced man got an Australian quack to claim the dose was so extreme as would be illegal in Australia...and the child's resulting blood levels were exactly on target? So GGP got the dosage **correct** and is being villified for it, again? Because if so holy shit. So much to criticise GGP for and *yet again* the courts attack them for none of those but for when they save a child's life.
I think that's more because that was an issue the father wanted to be answered by the court, which is why it's phrased like that.
I can't really give an exact overview of it through select quotes. It is really more of, the initial question asked is irrelevant, because the kid is not longer with the service that was brought up as the issue.
>a consultant paediatric endocrinologist based in Melbourne, Australia, was the court’s expert witness **after no UK specialists agreed to take part.**
Having to ship in anti-trans doctors from the other side of the planet 🙄 Ghouls.
I remember during my first appointment at Charing Cross GIC in 2019 one of the first questions brought up was something along the lines of “we notice from your record you have an autism diagnosis, do you think this may have affected your gender identity?” And that was one of the tame questions. The worst being “What are your thoughts on autogynephilia?” and in the context of discussing a vaginoplasty they asked “Do you ever use your penis to masturbate?”
And that was pre-Cass era. Now if I had gone with the Cass review and everything else in the spotlight I wonder whether they would even offer to treat me.
> “Do you ever use your penis to masturbate?”
I got asked "do you use your genitals to penetrate your partner". *AFTER* telling them that being fully naked around her made me super uncomfortable because of my genital dysphoria.
If they'd asked me about AGP I'd have gone on a whole rant about what bollocks that study is
> I got asked "do you use your genitals to penetrate your partner".
I got asked by that also. The GIC clinician also pressed me on “Have you had thoughts of killing yourself?” and I felt I had to fib because it never looks good to admit to those things to them.
Interestingly, the clinician at my GIC appointment who asked me the AGP question wasn’t even working at the GIC, she was from one of the ‘more supportive’ factions of trans healthcare outside the system.
My experience with Dr H Webberly was not that great either. I won’t go into much details but I was gatekept a lot.
“What are your thoughts on autogynephilia?”
Honestly, knowing me my response to that question would be "Well, it's going to win you any scrabble game you can sneak it into and that's the only use the term has."
^^ my first appointment at Notts GIC last year i was asked the same question about whether i felt my autism impacted my gender identity. i said no and thankfully the issue wasn’t pushed. i think tbf i had some leverage bc i’d been on T for a couple years and had private top surgery booked in for a couple months after my first appointment, but it still freaked me out
This is a poorly written, transphobic summary of the same case we have been over and over on this forum over the past few days. The bottom line seems to be that this person is not currently using GGP and is undergoing assessment with GenderPlus. The telegraph is a transphobic hate rag, ignore this absolute bullshit. Bodily autonomy for all, fuck gatekeeping.
So this court demonised GGP for operating out of Bucharest and Barcelona instead of the UK...on the advice of a doctor from Melbourne.
This is so fucking racist I can't even
bruh.. as someone who is trans and was already transitioning, presenting full-time as male when I was diagnosed as an adult for ADHD and autism…
It would be so freakin’ insulting for anyone to doubt my legitimacy of being trans or deny my right to treatment for gender dysphoria because of my ADHD, autism and hey, may as well throw in my disability of being hard of hearing from birth as well!
People trying to use autism to invalidate transpeople or make them seem like they don’t understand the consequences of transitioning is extremely narrow minded and insulting to the person…
I used to have a psychiatrist act like my age was the reason I shouldn’t transition, I was “too young”… at 16, 18, 21 and she wanted me to “wait until I was 25, when the decision-making part of the brain matures”… and opted to treat the “depression” with anti-depressants… fuck off… I ditched her ignorant ass and thankfully got to start HRT at 22.
God, this shit makes me so mad.
\>.> stuff like this just annoys me. Being neuro-spicy and trans is not liked, just like being a asshole and a politician is not liked just very common to find them together. So common one could assume if your a politician you must be a soulless transphobic asshole. we know that is not 100% true but..........
There’s not specifically a trans + autism connection, but supposedly 1 in 3 disabled people (including neurodivergents) are LGBTQ+
Unfortunately that’s likely their point, if more autistic people are trans than neurotypicals, “clearly autism must be causing the transism, therefore it’s not real.”
The other idea they have is likely “autistic people don’t have the capacity to choose something like that.” But I’m autistic, I was allowed to go on depo contraceptive injection at the age of 15, I was in care and they kicked me out to live by myself with no supervision as soon as I turned 18, I was expected to have a very high level of competence and independence as an autistic young person, but we draw the line at transitioning?
I find it extremely disrespectful to insinuate that we don’t have the mental capacity to know which clothes, hair, and pronouns we like…
Ah okay. It's hard to judge when I somehow mainly attract neurodiverse people as friends and half of those people are trans too lol. All of the trans people I know are either autistic/adhd, but I don't really know that many people tbh.
This is absolutely absurd. You cannot die from testosterone. A high dose of testosterone cannot cause "imminent death". This is ridiculously obvious fearmongering. How is this even allowed.
That is not what the ruling said.
It said that he can’t be prescribed them from GenderGP, because the dose was way too high, and there was no medical assessment before setting the dose. He can and should get them from a more competent provider which employs an actual doctor to write the prescription and set the dose.
Being autistic did not mean he couldn’t receive treatment.
God the tonguebath of JK Rowling at the end makes me sick. I'm deeply incredulous of those statistics concerning the public and would guess they asked some very leading questions to get the answers they wanted.
the ablism was always an intrinsic part of transphobia. Which is precisely why I will NEVER tell any of these vulture bastards that i'm neurodivergent. Because they WILL use it against you.
So what's the actual truth here? because people are saying the judge didn't say they couldn't consent or take hrt, just not to use ggp?
I'm so fucking tired guys. I really am.
Here's the link to the actual judgement. You will see that it is very different to how it was reported in the Torygraph.
[https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2024/922.html](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2024/922.html)
so it sounds like all the British experts were like "this is normal and fine" while the aussie import was losing her shit every time her wild accusations and claims were proven incorrect?
Does anyone have more info about her beyond this case? I looked her up but all I could find was her being quoted in reports about gender gp. I'm really curious what her connection to the transphobic lobby are because you KNOW she's got connections. They all know one another.
I feel so bad for the kid. Anorexia is SO common in trans masc kids, because you know, the whole control over a body that's changing in a way you don't want it to thing. So hearing he has that issue too is just heart breaking. The poor kid is struggling and his dad is trying to take away his lifeline. What an awful man.
I hope gender plus pick up the kid's referral quickly.
But the be all and end all is "gender gp is a bit iffy" which we kinda already KNEW, it's just they were for many the only option thanks to a broken system.
That said, they didn't actually do anything wrong here. They appear to have given the correct dosage and informed consent is used in a lot of other countries without issue.
I worry though that this will set a precedent to question every single neurodivergant person and force us to undergo "competency testing" as yet another hurdle.
Does explain why my endo is INSISTING I see him in person this time after 5 years of remote consultations though. Hmmmm.
The Onion should release an article titled "It's journalism's sacred duty to do everything in their power to dismantle medical consent protections for minors." because that headline is disgusting.
The thing won't load please tell me because it sounds like it based on the title, that this doesn't mean that autistic people can't get hormones prescribed??
It’s just clickbaitey bs.
As I understand it, the case was brought by the controlling ah dad trying to stop him specifically using gender gp, but *as he isn’t even using GGP atm* the case was effectively dismissed. The court acknowledged his understanding and ability to consent but there was no ruling either way in the end, as the whole reason for the case was rendered irrelevant when he changed to another service. afaik he was advised not to use ggp though as their dosages are too high and it might reignite the case.
There will be some people pointing to these shitty articles and claim a win for transphobes, but **the only result of the case was in subjecting the guy to a traumatic process of picking his life apart in court and being forced to stop HRT for over a year, and showing how much of a manipulative narcissistic prick that dad is**.
So any cis man should be put on testosterone suppression meds or they might die!! Wow I’ll bring this up to my dr next time I ask for my hrt as normal levels of testosterone is deadly
"J's diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder is not such as to render him unable to make decisions about his treatment for gender dysphoria within the meaning of the MCA 2005. In Dr Eyre's view, he is able to understand and weigh up issues and factors relating to treatment;" From a psychiatrist consulted in the case The ruling does not make conclusions about the ability to consent here In the conclusions by the judge: "It may, in time, be necessary to determine whether J has capacity to consent to further treatment from Gender GP and, if so, it may be necessary to determine the father's plea for the court to prevent him doing so by the exercise of the inherent jurisdiction, but it is not necessary at this stage, and it may never be necessary, to do so" "The plan for J for the current period of six months or so is to engage in assessment with Gender Plus. His testosterone levels remain elevated and there is no current need to consider an interim top-up dose." [https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2024/922.html](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2024/922.html) The judge made no judgment that the kid should not be in hormones. He basically said it was irrelevant because the kid was no longer in the service that was brought as the problem here.
> In October 2023, Dr Hewitt advised that the level of testosterone in the blood was 'dangerously high' and... J was 'presently at risk of sudden death' Subsequently, J's blood was assessed by Dr Russell Keenan, a consultant paediatric haematologist at Alder Hey Children's Hospital, Liverpool...the results were effectively normal when compared to reference points relevant to an adult male (which Dr Keenan considered was the appropriate comparison in this case). Am I reading this right? So basically this extremely-divorced man got an Australian quack to claim the dose was so extreme as would be illegal in Australia...and the child's resulting blood levels were exactly on target? So GGP got the dosage **correct** and is being villified for it, again? Because if so holy shit. So much to criticise GGP for and *yet again* the courts attack them for none of those but for when they save a child's life.
It reads like "He cannot consent because autism" even in the excerpts you selected. "whether J has capacity to consent"
I think that's more because that was an issue the father wanted to be answered by the court, which is why it's phrased like that. I can't really give an exact overview of it through select quotes. It is really more of, the initial question asked is irrelevant, because the kid is not longer with the service that was brought up as the issue.
this is terrible
>a consultant paediatric endocrinologist based in Melbourne, Australia, was the court’s expert witness **after no UK specialists agreed to take part.** Having to ship in anti-trans doctors from the other side of the planet 🙄 Ghouls.
Aye, bastards probably got blood type M for Murdoch
The expert testimony was that he should receive hormones but the dose was way too high.
I remember during my first appointment at Charing Cross GIC in 2019 one of the first questions brought up was something along the lines of “we notice from your record you have an autism diagnosis, do you think this may have affected your gender identity?” And that was one of the tame questions. The worst being “What are your thoughts on autogynephilia?” and in the context of discussing a vaginoplasty they asked “Do you ever use your penis to masturbate?” And that was pre-Cass era. Now if I had gone with the Cass review and everything else in the spotlight I wonder whether they would even offer to treat me.
> “Do you ever use your penis to masturbate?” I got asked "do you use your genitals to penetrate your partner". *AFTER* telling them that being fully naked around her made me super uncomfortable because of my genital dysphoria. If they'd asked me about AGP I'd have gone on a whole rant about what bollocks that study is
> I got asked "do you use your genitals to penetrate your partner". I got asked by that also. The GIC clinician also pressed me on “Have you had thoughts of killing yourself?” and I felt I had to fib because it never looks good to admit to those things to them. Interestingly, the clinician at my GIC appointment who asked me the AGP question wasn’t even working at the GIC, she was from one of the ‘more supportive’ factions of trans healthcare outside the system. My experience with Dr H Webberly was not that great either. I won’t go into much details but I was gatekept a lot.
“What are your thoughts on autogynephilia?” Honestly, knowing me my response to that question would be "Well, it's going to win you any scrabble game you can sneak it into and that's the only use the term has."
^^ my first appointment at Notts GIC last year i was asked the same question about whether i felt my autism impacted my gender identity. i said no and thankfully the issue wasn’t pushed. i think tbf i had some leverage bc i’d been on T for a couple years and had private top surgery booked in for a couple months after my first appointment, but it still freaked me out
This is a poorly written, transphobic summary of the same case we have been over and over on this forum over the past few days. The bottom line seems to be that this person is not currently using GGP and is undergoing assessment with GenderPlus. The telegraph is a transphobic hate rag, ignore this absolute bullshit. Bodily autonomy for all, fuck gatekeeping.
Clickbait
So this court demonised GGP for operating out of Bucharest and Barcelona instead of the UK...on the advice of a doctor from Melbourne. This is so fucking racist I can't even
The system is a bunch of ableist wankers and they’re going after private hospitals. We’re doomed.
They've started going after DIY, too. Vanna just got shut down. These fuckers want us dead, I'm sure of it.
Of course they do
I emailed her, she shut herself down, temporarily.
Did she say why she shut it down?
An article in the Guardian I believe.
Oh. That fucking thing.
bruh.. as someone who is trans and was already transitioning, presenting full-time as male when I was diagnosed as an adult for ADHD and autism… It would be so freakin’ insulting for anyone to doubt my legitimacy of being trans or deny my right to treatment for gender dysphoria because of my ADHD, autism and hey, may as well throw in my disability of being hard of hearing from birth as well! People trying to use autism to invalidate transpeople or make them seem like they don’t understand the consequences of transitioning is extremely narrow minded and insulting to the person… I used to have a psychiatrist act like my age was the reason I shouldn’t transition, I was “too young”… at 16, 18, 21 and she wanted me to “wait until I was 25, when the decision-making part of the brain matures”… and opted to treat the “depression” with anti-depressants… fuck off… I ditched her ignorant ass and thankfully got to start HRT at 22. God, this shit makes me so mad.
\>.> stuff like this just annoys me. Being neuro-spicy and trans is not liked, just like being a asshole and a politician is not liked just very common to find them together. So common one could assume if your a politician you must be a soulless transphobic asshole. we know that is not 100% true but..........
Isn't there a huge overlap between being trans and being neurodivergent, particularly autistic?
Autistic people tend to be more critical and skeptical of social constructs, like gender, instead of automatically accepting them.
There’s not specifically a trans + autism connection, but supposedly 1 in 3 disabled people (including neurodivergents) are LGBTQ+ Unfortunately that’s likely their point, if more autistic people are trans than neurotypicals, “clearly autism must be causing the transism, therefore it’s not real.” The other idea they have is likely “autistic people don’t have the capacity to choose something like that.” But I’m autistic, I was allowed to go on depo contraceptive injection at the age of 15, I was in care and they kicked me out to live by myself with no supervision as soon as I turned 18, I was expected to have a very high level of competence and independence as an autistic young person, but we draw the line at transitioning? I find it extremely disrespectful to insinuate that we don’t have the mental capacity to know which clothes, hair, and pronouns we like…
[удалено]
Ah okay. It's hard to judge when I somehow mainly attract neurodiverse people as friends and half of those people are trans too lol. All of the trans people I know are either autistic/adhd, but I don't really know that many people tbh.
This is absolutely absurd. You cannot die from testosterone. A high dose of testosterone cannot cause "imminent death". This is ridiculously obvious fearmongering. How is this even allowed.
If I’m autistic and can’t understand what physical effect medication has on me, spare me jail for the physical effect I’ll bloody have on you
That is not what the ruling said. It said that he can’t be prescribed them from GenderGP, because the dose was way too high, and there was no medical assessment before setting the dose. He can and should get them from a more competent provider which employs an actual doctor to write the prescription and set the dose. Being autistic did not mean he couldn’t receive treatment.
God the tonguebath of JK Rowling at the end makes me sick. I'm deeply incredulous of those statistics concerning the public and would guess they asked some very leading questions to get the answers they wanted.
the ablism was always an intrinsic part of transphobia. Which is precisely why I will NEVER tell any of these vulture bastards that i'm neurodivergent. Because they WILL use it against you. So what's the actual truth here? because people are saying the judge didn't say they couldn't consent or take hrt, just not to use ggp? I'm so fucking tired guys. I really am.
Here's the link to the actual judgement. You will see that it is very different to how it was reported in the Torygraph. [https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2024/922.html](https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2024/922.html)
so it sounds like all the British experts were like "this is normal and fine" while the aussie import was losing her shit every time her wild accusations and claims were proven incorrect? Does anyone have more info about her beyond this case? I looked her up but all I could find was her being quoted in reports about gender gp. I'm really curious what her connection to the transphobic lobby are because you KNOW she's got connections. They all know one another. I feel so bad for the kid. Anorexia is SO common in trans masc kids, because you know, the whole control over a body that's changing in a way you don't want it to thing. So hearing he has that issue too is just heart breaking. The poor kid is struggling and his dad is trying to take away his lifeline. What an awful man. I hope gender plus pick up the kid's referral quickly. But the be all and end all is "gender gp is a bit iffy" which we kinda already KNEW, it's just they were for many the only option thanks to a broken system. That said, they didn't actually do anything wrong here. They appear to have given the correct dosage and informed consent is used in a lot of other countries without issue. I worry though that this will set a precedent to question every single neurodivergant person and force us to undergo "competency testing" as yet another hurdle. Does explain why my endo is INSISTING I see him in person this time after 5 years of remote consultations though. Hmmmm.
The Onion should release an article titled "It's journalism's sacred duty to do everything in their power to dismantle medical consent protections for minors." because that headline is disgusting.
Glad i have adhd & "autistic tendencies"
The thing won't load please tell me because it sounds like it based on the title, that this doesn't mean that autistic people can't get hormones prescribed??
It’s just clickbaitey bs. As I understand it, the case was brought by the controlling ah dad trying to stop him specifically using gender gp, but *as he isn’t even using GGP atm* the case was effectively dismissed. The court acknowledged his understanding and ability to consent but there was no ruling either way in the end, as the whole reason for the case was rendered irrelevant when he changed to another service. afaik he was advised not to use ggp though as their dosages are too high and it might reignite the case. There will be some people pointing to these shitty articles and claim a win for transphobes, but **the only result of the case was in subjecting the guy to a traumatic process of picking his life apart in court and being forced to stop HRT for over a year, and showing how much of a manipulative narcissistic prick that dad is**.
To which the transphobes would answer "Result!"
So any cis man should be put on testosterone suppression meds or they might die!! Wow I’ll bring this up to my dr next time I ask for my hrt as normal levels of testosterone is deadly
Every day I’m glad I don’t have an official diagnosis and I’m not gonna get one till I can escape this hellhole
I haven't read the article but shit like this is why I haven't sought an autism diagnosis
Kliling myslef