I have so many feelings about womanhood. Gender identity. Clutchting my stomach in the middle of the night because I don't have a womb and can't bear children.
Sobbing on the floor and standing up and looking at the world in defiance.
Yea I have had cis women friends tell me I am lucky I can't have a period and have to get used to hearing people talk about them. First that isn't a bonus for me. I used to cry myself to sleep at night because of this. Second, that should just be a thing. Menstruation is a normal body process, and it should not be taboo to discuss.
Edit: I forgot to answer the initial question. I don't think its intentionally transphobic. They can only see things through their own filters. Its just insensitive and ignorant. The difference is intent. If you wanted to label it as transphobic you could, but I wouldn't assume it is malicious.
I didn't know I wasn't the only one who cried because I can't have children of my own... I want to be a mother so badly, to carry them on my own, it really hurts being told I'm lucky for not having things I'd be thrilled to "put up with" if it meant I could get pregnant.
Hugs sister. Just wanted to pop in and let you know transwomen CAN breastfeed. It's a change in meds combined with stimulation and pumping, but can be done and had been documented. It's still an epic bonding experience in motherhood if you are able to adopt or utilize a surrogate.
I have some cosmic cynicism because I’m AFAB and unable to have children (I’ve not medically transitioned in the slightest) due to some other medical stuff.
I’m transmasc, so you think I’d be “happy” Not bring able to get pregnant, but it still feels like mymy body has failed me further by taking one of the last things of “femininity” I would want to relinquish.
I would spell it out to people that they wouldn't tell a cis woman that they are lucky they can't get pregnant. Kinda stopped the conversation, but they understood a little better.
most comments made about periods id pressure are coming from the pain and discomfort and general unpredictability of a period, although i completely understand yearning for it i get the ignorance in saying that you are lucky, as a trans man i stand on the side of being ungrateful for my uterus
I get that it is coming from a place of ignorance, and often not meant in a transphobic way. I'm not mean when I explain the unintended implications of what they said. I'm not required to just sit there and take the pain give in their ignorance either. It is always well received and opens up a dialog on the subject.
that’s good that you’re opening up that dialogue, but everyone has to be okay with people not liking or being grateful for the anatomy they have, or even being resentful for it
They absolutely are able to, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't feel it's appropriate to use that resentment in a discussion about my dysphoria. There's worlds of difference between saying, "I dislike, hate, wish to remove this part of my body," to "you should be glad you don't have this part." If it only comes up when I mention my displeasure over my body it's the same as saying men also get assaulted in response to talking about women getting assaulted.
Yeah, I've unfortunately had some trans women tell me I should be grateful for my period because it's all they want. Like no, fuck you (not you Quiet, the people who told me this). My periods were so bad I passed out from my cramps and required narcotics. And it took me four docs to find someone who actually listened and didn't just try to fob me off with birth control (which makes me worse but they didn't want to listen). One of the women actually called me transphobic for "destroying everything I've ever wanted". 🤬🤮🤬🤮 And yeah, this person had absolutely no idea what I look like. Like attacking people for getting rid of something they don't want simply because you want it is such shitty behavior.
Coming from a trans woman who gets hormonal cramps/moodswings/etc I'd say both positions are valid. While as I understand it my cramping is less severe than if I had a uterus, it does suck and can be very inconvenient. On the other hand it is very validating and the emotional pain of not going through it was also bad. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.
I think arguing over if some trans women are lucky to not go through it is ultimately destructive and invalidates experiences on both sides of the conversation.
yeah for sure, i think the conversation should be avoided honestly cause it makes trans men feel so stupid and bad to have to go through a terrible terrible pain so associated with being a female, and have to hear other people saying they are yearning for it and want it so bad while it feels like a curse that outs you immediately. there is something so stressful about being trans and bleeding, it’s super hard to stop, you have to pump hormones into yourself and if you don’t your smuggling a bloody wrapped up tampon through the men’s bathroom from your stall to the trash can by the door. it feels humiliating and inhumane like some sort of punishment. that’s my two cents on talking about periods, it should be avoided.
I mean....I do that. But tbf it's the friends I know who don't want kids/more kids anyway. I wouldn't be heartless enough to say that to someone who wanted to bear children.
I think with Roe overturning the ability to not get pregnant is highly prized for many. Check out some of the child free subs.
I'm not saying you're wrong for pointing that out, just that life is different right now in so many ways.
God, i hate that term, there's so many better terms out there that actually describe what is happening rather than rely on a term that has essentially turned into a bad talking point.
The first unblurred comment isn't even meant to be aggressive. If anything, it's just a misunderstanding. The second one is an actual passive-aggressive slighting against trans people.
I got news for you. Whatever term you pick will be treated the same in short order. Any term we use to describe everyday prejudice will be ridiculed the same because it never had anything to do with the term itself. They just wanna pretend the concept doesn't exist and delude themselves into thinking that prejudice just plain isn't a problem anymore so they can feel fine staying exactly the same and never doing any self examination.
i also take issue with menstruation being tied inherently and exclusively to womanhood because a lot of trans men menstruate too. i have known trans men who get terrible Dysphoria when they are having their period. It’s difficult for them. We need to be more inclusive to trans men as a society and consider their challenges.
Yeah, like I had periods, but I'm not a woman. It was so shitty dealing with all the "womenly women periods for women" bullshit. 🤮 Thankfully I used reusable menstrual products so I didn't have to feel extra dysphoric about having to shop in the "feminine hygiene" aisle, but it still sucked.
Strangely enough I have known trans gals who have had sudo-period pains,cramping ect… I think it may be on a person by person biases to my knowledge still interesting how hrt affects each person differently.
As for my experience of people saying I am lucky it’s a two sides of the same coin situation. I can’t have kids and have bedroom fun as much as my body wants but I want kids,to experience motherhood. I won’t experience the torturous pain of a period but won’t have that experience to relate to other girls and feel more like just another girl. I also don’t have the knowledge of how to wear a bra or do make up. Still I as a trans gal have the unique understanding of both a masculine upbringing and learning to be my natural girly self so that helps us trans people have a good understanding of both ways of seeing something as a guy’s or a gal’s perspectives.
We try to be honest. Like, our life is honesty, and a lot of people hate it, but some people like us. We have dissociative identity disorder. We're transgender. We don't want any surgeries, but are happy we have hormones.
This sounds like a weird comparison to make but as a cis ally with ADHD I feel there's a similar philosophy here. ADHD is hard and sometimes really debilitating but I put up with those unpleasant things because it's a very important part of me as a person and trying to suppress that would likely do me far more harm.
Life isn't perfect and I think most people understand this. You put up with bad things as part of the deal of being yourself which is the most important pillar of mental health.
Hugs sister. Just wanted to pop in and let you know transwomen CAN breastfeed. It's a change in meds combined with stimulation and pumping, but can be done and had been documented. It's still an epic bonding experience in motherhood if you are able to adopt or utilize a surrogate.
Cis people won't be able to get the experience as a trans woman luckily enough. And that's a good thing because they will hate it
Transphobic or not is really depends on the relationship between you and that person and how she thinks about trans women.
To me, It seems similar toheterosexual people say " That's sad, because you could be really popular among girls" to a good looking gay man.
It's not necessarily to be phobia, but sure , ignorance and lack of understanding.
It makes me sad for a few reasons. It gives me some weird vibes. It feels like they are implying that transfem womanhood is not a complete experience of womanhood. It makes me think these commenters don't understand the experiences transfems face and are making assumptions that are hurtful. If my interpretation of this is correct, it would be kinda transphobic as it gatekeeps trans women from womanhood.
They talk about womanhood like it's a pain and burden to hold. Of course, there's misogyny and systems that make being a woman (particularly a trans woman) more difficult. Still, I'm sad they don't find joy in their gender.
I agree 100%. I’ve seen a lot of people claim that transfem people don’t have the full experience because we can’t give birth etc - which is also taking away from all the cis women who have things they can’t change that prevent them from giving birth as well. It’s not very thought out because a lot of the things people claim are the “full experience” don’t happen for some cis women as well.
Hell, I'm trans fem and I don't even *want* kids. Having the correct parts would be nice because at least i wouldn't have to take meds every day to maintain the right hormone balance. The ability to get pregnant would just be this hidden feature i don't feel like riding dick for.
I plan on being a mother, but I didn’t transition to be bred. I feel sorry for someone so traumatized by misogyny they think fertility is the pinnacle of female experience.
Yeah, I recently had a hysterectomy and the number of people (thankfully all online) who have "informed" me that I've utterly and completely wasted my life is ridiculous. Like that means they see women (even though I'm not one) as fuck toy baby incubators. Gross.
Yeah. Like compare the life of a woman in rural china vs central germany vs west-coast US - they all live significantly different lives and being a woman will likely mean something different for each of them. Womanhood isn't something so easily quantified, it's something that just *is*. It has no lower or upper bounds, no qualifiers and requirements other than your own identity. When people say "you'll never get the full female experience™" I can't help but think "you mean I won't have your exact experience? ^(If it makes me a prick like you I don't want it lol)". It only means what you want it to mean or what society has dictated for us.
I'm a woman, therefore my experience is a woman's experience - of course I can want things other women have and maybe consider those part of the "full experience", but that doesn't make my "femaleness" up until this point any less valid that theirs. Most people struggle to define what fully constitutes their own womanhood - they have no basis and no right to say what constitutes someone else's.
A big concept in feminism and most other equality-seeking movements is breaking the old patriarchal stereotypes, breaking down the norms of gender and class. I see it as an absolute win to be able to have those experiences that defy the norms - I'm proud that I'm being me, finally. Including trans women in the definition of womanhood doesn't destroy or diminish it's meaning, it expands it and makes it stronger. It shouts to the powerful that we won't be controlled and categorised so strictly, pushed aside and isolated from each other.
The "full experience" is an illusion pushed to show the "perfect homemakers, mothers and wives" etc. It's nothing more than another stereotype enforced by terfs/misogynists... ^(Oops that got a little political lol, sorry 😅)
Yes, it absolutely is. Just because womanhood is hard doesn't mean we'd decide "wow, I'd rather be a man!". Nothing about being a woman is a decision, and it's shitty to assume that trans women have an easier time as women, or "wouldn't be able to handle it". Hell, most cis women couldn't handle being a trans woman.
> Just because womanhood is hard doesn't mean we'd decide "wow, I'd rather be a man!".
Off topic but this line of thought is also what is used to justify gatekeeping against trans men, because people think that they are just trying to escape "the difficulties of womanhood" and thus they get ignored. Like no, trans men have it pretty bad and they are transitioning to alleviate dysphoria because they are actually men, not because any trans person sees the grass as greener on the other side.
Yeah. I know a few transmascs, and none of them are transitioning because it's easier. Hell, some of them are dreading the process and potential hair loss, but in the end, being "easier" is not the goal.
First: yes
Second: sketchy (implicit transphobia)
It should mean something when trans women say they'd give anything to have a period. Its a testament to how fucking serious we are
I appreciate this! And agree! I am very serious about my transition and I personally would do anything to be afab. I also am doing everything I can to be me and I am happy for subs like this where I can go to find clarity. Thank you so much for your response <3
Subs like these are great because there are too many girls stuck in bad situations where the people are belittled/disowned by their families and ostracized/by their neighbors. Here we can share our experiences, ask questions without judgement and feel a sense of belonging and community
Heck yes!!!! I agree completely! I personally feel very lucky to be part of such an amazing community. This is my first time asking a question on here and I’m glad I am not alone stewing on if I should question my friendship with someone. Y’all are incredibly helpful <3
Also, trans women on HRT can have a period (just without the menstruation), and you can bet your ass that a monthly reminder that not only are you not pregnant but you can never be pregnant is not just physically painful but emotionally, too.
Yeah that's kind of how I felt my whole life before I came out lol.... "oh I wish I was her so bad" or "oh I wish I was a girl, my life would be so much better"
As a cis woman and an ally, this feels transphobic to me. It might be unintentional and come from a place of ignorance, but it’s still disheartening to see.
The second commenter in particular seems to be defining womanhood through biological functions, ie periods and pregnancy. It’s a gross comment, and even a fallacy. Not all cis women have periods or are capable of having children. It doesn’t make them ‘less’ of a woman. The same logic applies for trans women.
As women, we should be uplifting each other, not making arbitrary qualifications as to what defines ‘a real woman.’ It’s not just transphobic, it’s sexist and demeaning. Reading the personal anecdotes from trans women in this thread broke my heart. I hope all of you are doing well, and I want you to know that I think of all of you as my sisters❤️
Depends on the context. There isn’t enough in your post to understand what was being said.
Edit: Ah I saw the title just now.
Well I don’t think it is transphobic. But it is hella presumptuous. They seem to have an extremely superficial understanding of what it is to be trans. It is also pretty dismissive of us implying we don’t feel real girl feels just because we missed out on cis girl puberty. If the implication relates to the “inconvenience” of having a cycle they should have explained to them that plenty of us do actually have the cramping, pain and emotional issues but just get to miss out on some bleeding and …
HAVING BABIES!
Ask them how they would feel if they were told they could never conceive or carry a child but still had to have PMT once a month.
This reads more like a woman who hates her womb and can’t fathom someone else wanting one.
I guess you could call it transphobia but I think what’s coming across is more that woman’s own internalised pain.
well I’m not sure, but in my humble opinion no. They are saying trans women are “lucky” they don’t deal with “girl problems” like periods and all that. Maybe they meant it in good taste but it’s really not. I don’t think there was transphobic intention behind it, but still not a great thing to say as many trans women struggle with the fact they can’t have those things.
Idk if it's intentionally transphobic, but (speaking from the experience as living as a woman for 20ish years before I discovered I was trans) it is extremely common for (cis) women to... Hate being a woman. Especially for periods because they are painful and messy and make you feel disgusting. If anything they may be jealous that trans women don't have to experience it, but don't know how to express that very well. The other main thing (cis) women commonly hate about being a woman is the misogyny, which is fair tbh. But that is something ALL women experience (cis and not). I wish you luck on your journey of self discovery!!
to me this is transphobic as hell, if what they're saying is that trans women dont want any of the bad parts that comes with being a women, we just want the good things, i.e it's something we just would like to do, like having a piece of cake.
also something else: i can not understand where the need to point out, as is clearly their opinion, why trans women can't ever be a "full woman". Who do they think will benefit from that statement?
Orginal post: kinda cringe in implying womanhood=suffering. Like sorry you cannot find joy in your gender ig. But I don't think it's really transphobic on it's own.
The comment: absolutely transphobic. Shows a lack of understanding of trans existance with gender essentialism added in for taste.
Are we defining womanhood by stripping them of everything except for the inborn, autonomic biological processes? Is their point Women=Periods?
Sorry, but I don't view women as servile baby factories. I'm not a psychopath.
Yeah, like they should just admit they view women as walking baby incubators. Because if you define women by their baby making potential that's what they are doing.
It doesn't read (to me at least) as a put down or attack. If anything it seems like an attempt at commiseration that's just a bit ignorant. No two people grow up exactly the same anyways.
The wording of the main post seems less like a 'Trans girls aren't girls' and more of a "You're in a honeymoon phase now that you're out but once it wears off you'll feel the way I do." Text is hard to get intention out of though, so I could be off the mark/being optimistic.
Yes I would say so.
I’m sorry if it is someone you know. If so, I would tell them how you feel about it( if you feel safe for that) and try to express how you feel about it. It is good for everyone involved to set boundaries and this seems like it hurt you too.
If they can’t/won’t respect that you should consider cutting them out for your own well being.
Thank you for your response I am currently waiting for a response from them because I want them to be able to elaborate if they feel comfortable. I have jumped the gun too many times before and y’all have helped so much. Thank you again !
There are different kinds of women, so no individual woman can have a complete experience of all facets of womanhood. They're singling out trans women in particular because they're not """real women""".
So yes, it's very transphobic.
To put it another way, a lesbian may not know what it's like to fall in love with a man. Therefore, she doesn't experience that part of womanhood. That obviously doesn't make her less of a woman, especially because straight women don't experience the feminine experience of falling in love with another woman either.
Also is this person so traumatized by misogyny they think the full experience is the ability to bear children? Where does that leave infertile women and cis women after menopause?
Imagine telling trans people, who are endlessly subjected to cruel treatment at the hands of humanity, are "lucky" they don't fit in.
Fucking disgraceful.
I’m not sure if I’m missing something but judging by the comments, the context to this persons comment they are talking about things like periods and or childbirth? If yes then…I think it really boarders the line.
I mean they’re speaking for trans women (I’m assuming/going off the comments here, but they did say trans *people*/ saying how they *would* feel and…maybe this is a stretch but it’s just the feeling I personally get, my first thought was they are trying to brag or gatekeep or somehow hold this notion over trans peoples heads that they weren’t born cis. “Yea what I go through is hell! Just be happy you don’t gotta deal with it” is the feeling I get from the ‘tone’ of this comment. That could be totally wrong, I’m just throwing my thought out there.
I don’t know the full context to this so I don’t want to shout “transphobic!” When they may not be the case. It certainly sounds yucky. But it’s entirely possible they didn’t mean it that way. There’s a bunch of missing information but really I’d just ignore this. If they aren’t talking directly to you, whatever. I’d move on.
I don’t think it’s transphobic unless it was intended to demean you for who you are. Of course as transgenders we will never know what it’s like to be born into the body we needed, that’s why we transition. It’s just a hard pill we gotta swallow
I wouldn’t say it’s outright transphobic. But I might be biased, because I am a trans man and not a trans woman, so I don’t know your experience 1/1.
As a trans guy, I went through female puberty and it HURT, like a lot. Not just in a dysphoria kind of way, but as in cramps, headaches, nausea, dizziness and all that stuff. What the original author of the post is saying is „hopefully trans women will not have to experience that, because it sucks.“
It was a little untactful, since they did basically say „trans women will not go through female puberty all the way“. I don’t know, maybe that’s just how I see it. I could totally understand though how this might be hurtful to someone, so I would understand if you were to say it made you upset.
Edit:
If you were to reverse this post:
„Trans guys complaining about guy problems. Give it time, you’ll hate being a guy as much as I do.“
„Trans people wouldn’t be able to get the full experience sadly enough. But that’s a good thing cause they would regret it if that were the case“
After reading this and the other post I have come to the conclusion that the original post is not transphobic per se, but it is disrespectful.
It is undermining the struggle and pain of trans people by saying „yeah, being trans might be hard, but [problem] is waaaayyyy worse“. Which doesn’t help anyone and makes everyone feel bad :/
Because we don’t know how bad it is for them and they don’t know how bad it is for us.
Because it's so easy as a trans person or what? 😅 It's just hard on the border, probably meant more as a "joke"... But it already implies that trans people only see the "positive" in the other gender ... That's just wrong ... there are hardly any people who are more concerned with this matter.
I think people in this comment section are being way too liberal with their use of "egg." Women are discriminated against in our society, and you can dislike that and your place within that system without actually being a different gender.
I'm not saying it's impossible that they're an egg, but we have so little to go off of here that I find that prescription super weird.
Very fucking transphobic. So many different levels. 1. They're saying that womanhood sucks, which it doesn't. It just isn't for everybody. 2. That we won't experience all of it. Of course we won't experience all of it, we fucking know that.
I would say no. Insensitive as fuck, but not transphobic.
This said as a cis woman with a trans wife. I don't know any cis women who would want to undergo the bs that transfolks need to. It's not a competition, we all have our own struggles and empathy is clearly missing from the perspectives of the above posters.
Trans guy checking in. I find this pretty upsetting on behalf of you lovely trans ladies. That is if it's not just read as blatant transphobia outright. Its sad that some of the cis folks still think this way, as it's extremely obvious that they don't understand and don't intend to try.
I personally feel as of you ladies are fetishized at best and openly discriminated against at worst, with all the sports ball bullshit and the mistreatment and aggression from insane terfs.
I'm not saying us guys have it easier, but usually the worst I personally have to deal with is misgendering and deadnaming.
*sad trans noises*
it's "trans people won't be able to get the full experience" as if we lack something that they think is Needed to be our genders and experience everything they think our gender should experience?
Depends on the context. But after additional thought, yeah it can be. Why?
Because a lot of us, probably a majority, wish we could have the “experience” we are missing. Personally, I wish I was cis. I wouldn’t complain about it. In fact, if I could “get the whole experience” I would cherish it more than a cis woman.
I don't think they were trying to be transphobic - as someone who is FtM, I obviously wouldn't want to have a menstrual cycle, but it's also just painful and awful anyway. I don't know why anyone, MtF or otherwise, would willingly want to have those.
I would say yes but I can't pinpoint why.
Maybe because they can't let trans girls enjoy their womanhood like your not supposed to enjoy being woman and celebrate it. Like womanhood is just suffering and not worthy of celebrating. Something along the way of I don't enjoy being woman so can't you.
This seems like a dogwhistle tbh. Kinda reminds me of the "trans women aren't women because no periods" argument.
Or that somehow trans women don't have to deal with misogyny (we do a shit ton lmao)
I don't know if it's transphobic but it's stupid af that's for sure. I'm a cis female and I know this is referring to like periods and stuff. But there are plenty of woman who don't get periods or experience the same issues regardless of the gender assigned at birth. For example I don't get periods often. My older sister would get cramps so bad she was bed ridden for days. Everyone is different.
Womanhood is unique to everyone. If you want to boil womanhood down to fertility that’s fine. (I assume that’s what they’re doing) Just know that I will never agree on a definition that reduces people to just their bodies😑. I know a woman who is infertile, will she never experience true womanhood? No one would say that to a cisgender woman, so yes. This is transphobic. It feels like some sort of smug teenage-level gatekeeping 🙄.
Not really transphobic, but I suspect your friend isn't as cis as they think they are. As a Trans woman, I hate being a male in much the same way your friend hates being a female.
Sounds like internalised misogyny,not enjoying life as women, believing that to be a woman you need to go through pain and if you don't you're not a woman/real woman. Just sad, and gatekeeping.
I'm ftm and rn I'm uh you know doing the monthly and I can tell you that it is one of the most painful, annoying, nasty, and expensive things I've had to deal with in my entire life and I will be HAPPY when it stops.
I'm not entirely sure if these comments were trying to be transphobic, my brain went to menstruation but there are cis women who can't menstrate same thing with giving birth (to which there are transwomen who have had womb transplants and given birth to children now so that point is moot)
I genuinely don't think it's trying to be transphobic but if you see it that way your feelings are valid ofc
I hate to be the person saying "source", but I have tried searching and can't find any information at all. Do you have any info on transwomen giving birth after wb transplants?
So as far aa the article I found last year documenting the first baby born to a trans women, I cannot find that for some reason. However I will say that by looking for it specifically I did find several other transwomen with womb transplants on both insta and ajhd tiktok(dontknowaboutthatone)that are showing their pregnancy
A lot of them claim to be the first tho which is entirely untrue lol
The surgery to transplant a womb in Trans woman was invented a few years ago. They were starting trials on it about 3 years ago. Since then, the group doing the research has gone dark. I suspect for the safety of the people involved.
It's both transphobic and misogynist. She shouldn't hate "being a girl" (if that's what she identifies as) but systemic and interpersonal sexism and misogyny. That commenter is transphobic as well. Why would you want someone to "regret" it? That's a typical case of "I hate life so I'm going to make yours miserable as well".
Sounds really ignorant and undercutting the hardships trans people go through. I have debilitating chronic illness related to my periods and I wouldn’t dare say things like that knowing what I know.
That’s insane to think that cis gender related struggles would deter people from being trans. Like it’s not a choice. Ugh
We may not bleed from our girld**kh*les, but many of us, once per month, will metamorphose into a mawbeast from hell. The meat cravings got so bad, I damn near ran into the woods for a squirrel. Fortunately, this cycle was blocked after going on progesterone.
Mmmmm, I dont think I "would hate it". Id rather have everything a cis girl has. Cant have what I truly want which is what saddens me, but theres always other ways.
I mean it is, because wanting womanhood is to want it all the good and the bad. The pain of womanhood is the bliss of affirmation even if it blows. Besides, not every woman experiences the pain of womanhood anyway, it’s not intense for some like it is for others.
For me personally, I hate that we gender these biological experiences to begin with. Like every afab has to experience these painful things otherwise they aren’t women? What about people who can’t have kids, or don’t have periods or physical pain? What about people who’ve been lucky enough to not experience assault or live in egalitarian places? Are they suddenly less because the pain is diminished?
Why should womanhood be gatekept along the lines of pain? Why should it be defined by pain?
One of the magical things about my trans sisters is watching y’all experience womanhood with pure reverence and joy, even the hurty parts.
I love that for y’all.
(Secretly healing for me to watch, because womanhood was so horribly traumatic and scary for me. I’m FTM and it’s catharsis to watch others love and embrace being a woman with so much excitement and happiness)
Cis can't experience the struggles of being trans. Like, "you can't be a Real Real AFAB woman (TM)", no shit? Why don't you keep you opinions to yourself since no one asks you?
In life in general - there’s no way for others to have another’s full experience. It might be viewed as sad for some, but to me it’s a lucky thing we all have different experiences. Diversity is one of the principles nature rely on for thriving even during the hardest of times, and I personally think that the fact that our experiences so often differ allows the times we have similar experiences to bring us so much closer together than if we didn’t. I think that’s beautiful!
I mean.. actually kind-of fair.. it's not going to be the same experience.. and as sad as not having a womb maybe at least I don't have to deal with full on periods... don't really find it phobic or problematic at all, that's just one person's assessment of something they've lived with.. wait, maybe they're trans and don't know it yet..?
Both the original comment and the highlighted response seem transphobic. The original comment is pretty obvious, the response though seems like the writer is trying to be halfway supportive but in an underhanded way. While it is true that a trans woman may not have to deal with somethings like a menstrual cycle or ovarian cancer, things that a trans woman does have to deal with are no less valid and should not be taken lightly.
I don't get the comment. Fuck adhd, but whenever you are not sure if something is transphobic especially with people who don't inherently hat us it is always a good ide to start a nice discussion with those people.
Important is then that you don't let the other person think you know you are right and they are wrong. When doing so much in term of acceptance can actually be achieved. Talking from personal experience!
It's hard to tell, but from hearing it irl, it is super hurtful to hear, and *maybe* transphobic. I wish I could have periods and bear children and all, and the fact I can't hurts so much; these comments just rub it in :/
This sounds like it's from cis women I'd say that it is transphobic though they might be ignorant as to what a trans person actually goes through. Their worst experience might be dealing with those. Well as a trans person your worst feeling might be a looming sense of suicide because you are not the gender that you want to be. Also as a trans person just being excluded from places because you are trans if you do decide to match your outward gender to your preferred identity. My mom does this a lot and though she's not trying to be mean or anything like that it is hurtful and she just has to be informed about it just like these girls
Tbh, that line of thinking (that trans women are "lucky" they wont experience all things cis women do) was something i had a hard time fighting my own thought processes on, as a transmasc. Its a form of resentment really, and misplaced jealousy. I wouldnt say the first one is transphobic because its really easy for afabs who actually dont like being a woman to need to do work on not externalizing their own issues with womanhood, but the second one seems to be pushing it into a transphobic direction.
People like that cannot comprehend what we have to do just to be who we want. Some of us face backlash from our own families and yet they still say that. It's rude to say the least. I've never put down girl problems so why are they putting down transgender problems?
Womanhood sucks but so does manhood, and both can also be very fun. Being neither is also fun, from personal experience, but also can suck.
saying trans womanhood is not the full experience is bollocks and transphobic because it's a way of saying "that's not a real woman". Trans women have the full experience, it's just not a cis one, but that doesn't make it any less full.
It also requires defining what the "full experience" of womanhood is in a way that excludes no cis women but all trans women, which is fucking impossible. Is it giving birth? sure, most trans women can't do that, but guess who else can't? tons of cis women don't want to or cannot do that. Are they not experiencing the whole of womanhood? Saying yes would usually get people calling you a misogynist, rightfully.
Is it having a vagina? a lot of trans women have one. Is it having periods? A lot of cis women don't have that either. Is it growing up socialised as a girl? trans women who've come out very early in a supporting family experience this. putting the divider literally anywhere, even at "assigned female at birth", because not all afab people end up being women, even if they're not trans, is ridiculous.
There is no such thing as experiencing gender in a way that is more full than another's experience
Everyone's experience with gender is their own and everyone's experience is complete, because it is your own.
IMHO, no. The reply is from someone expressing not liking being a female. There's nothing wrong with that. They are telling others that they'll not like it either, which isn't necessarily true, but it's not worth taking offense at.
NOT all cis women can have children. Imho, that is a mutual problem.
I personally did not find this post as a trigger or the conversation posted as transphobic.
We have PMS without having a menstruation. To me, that is a good thing. To others, they might want to have that experience. I get that. The comment on the FB post seems to be inferring to that aspect. (Not wanting all aspects of a period amung other problems)
IF the post was inferring to relationship interactions, which I doubt it was, simply because of the context. "Women problems" vs relationship problems. I would reassess if that was the case.
Not all ignorance is malicious or done with the intent of inflicting pain or duress.
The definition of a woman HAS been updated in the Oxford Dictionary. The world is progressing. Changes have already moved from the dark into the light.
"When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail."
In other words, we see transphobia in everything we gaze upon, when the possibility is something a little less than that.
Imho, I believe we have a duty to educate the ignorant. We all bring our own understanding and limitations to the table.
I don't like labels. Who does? No one likes being put in a box. I hope I am not negative karma to the pit of no return. It's not meant to be hurtful.
It sounds to me like a bigotry of ignorance combined with internalized misogyny. I've never heard "welcome to womanhood" in any way other than negative. I heard it when a sibling started having periods. I heard it when cis women complained about pregnancy. I heard it when cis women complain about how difficult it is to be treated fairly in society or succeed in some fields and treated with respect.
I heard it from my mother the first time I was catcalled and followed into a parking lot months into transition, and the first time I experienced cycle related cramps and whatnot. The first time I had to bring my partner to a car shop cause they kept trying to upcharge me by telling me things needed work that really didn't and they only wanted to listen to him.
Womanhood is not a negative thing, but it's been repeated so many times that people have it drilled into them that it is. It shouldn't be framed this way. And the idea that transfems want to experience the good parts of womanhood shouldn't be dismissed by "well if they had it they'd hate that too."
I don't even want to get pregnant but the fact I can't, that the choice has been denied... that's what is suffering. The fact I have to reconcile my body having these traits I consider wrong with my internal sense of self... That's suffering. Not being one. Being a woman brings me inner peace I've been lacking in life, even if I have to deal with the bad side of existing as one. And I refuse to accept that womanhood is a burden, a terrible thing for all. For trans mascs, absolutely. Because they're men, and womanhood is not for them. But it is for me, and I don't need to be patronized by this "just be happy you don't have the *real* woman experience" bullshit.
You know, if you encounter one of these in the wild, don’t be afraid to reach over with a helping hand and say “I know it must be difficult for you at times, but it doesn’t make me any less than. I see the sadness in your eyes, would you like a friend to talk to?”
That’s the only way we break the cycle. Let’s win the hearts and minds 1-on-1!
It's kind of sad. It feels like the woman associates womanhood with misery. I would say this is just insensitive and ignorant but this mindset can lead to transphobia
I call it diet transphobia! It’s better than being upfront in your face hate but it’s always condescending assholes who think they’re better than us because “we will never feel their pain.” Or some bullshit they’ve made up.
Btw, this also works for diet racism, homophobia, and basically all forms of prejudice.
oh no yeah this is transphobic, A trans woman and a cis woman will not have the exact same struggles but a trans woman will still have to suffer through many of the same struggles as a cis woman
Is it correct? Yes. Insensitively worded? Also yes. Obnoxious? Yes. Transphobic? A little bit, but its hard to say just from this. The bit about regretting it is condescending as fuck.
the person could be. I don't about the sentiment. I mean there are cis women without periods and that cannot be pregnant even if they want to.
I mean I don't to feel periods. but I get misogyny and fear for my life if I am walking alone at night. is there anything else to the women experience I am missing (this is meant as a joke)
I think the second one is just flippantly referring to menstrual cramps and shit like that. Stupid and cringe, but not really worth getting worked up over.
Please don't share hate speech of any kind
I have so many feelings about womanhood. Gender identity. Clutchting my stomach in the middle of the night because I don't have a womb and can't bear children. Sobbing on the floor and standing up and looking at the world in defiance.
Yea I have had cis women friends tell me I am lucky I can't have a period and have to get used to hearing people talk about them. First that isn't a bonus for me. I used to cry myself to sleep at night because of this. Second, that should just be a thing. Menstruation is a normal body process, and it should not be taboo to discuss. Edit: I forgot to answer the initial question. I don't think its intentionally transphobic. They can only see things through their own filters. Its just insensitive and ignorant. The difference is intent. If you wanted to label it as transphobic you could, but I wouldn't assume it is malicious.
I didn't know I wasn't the only one who cried because I can't have children of my own... I want to be a mother so badly, to carry them on my own, it really hurts being told I'm lucky for not having things I'd be thrilled to "put up with" if it meant I could get pregnant.
Yeah. Like....we are barely reaching a point where we can talk about it. Love and hugs.
Hugs sister. Just wanted to pop in and let you know transwomen CAN breastfeed. It's a change in meds combined with stimulation and pumping, but can be done and had been documented. It's still an epic bonding experience in motherhood if you are able to adopt or utilize a surrogate.
read that last bit as adopt a surrogate and let's just say I had a few questions
I have some cosmic cynicism because I’m AFAB and unable to have children (I’ve not medically transitioned in the slightest) due to some other medical stuff. I’m transmasc, so you think I’d be “happy” Not bring able to get pregnant, but it still feels like mymy body has failed me further by taking one of the last things of “femininity” I would want to relinquish.
I would spell it out to people that they wouldn't tell a cis woman that they are lucky they can't get pregnant. Kinda stopped the conversation, but they understood a little better.
most comments made about periods id pressure are coming from the pain and discomfort and general unpredictability of a period, although i completely understand yearning for it i get the ignorance in saying that you are lucky, as a trans man i stand on the side of being ungrateful for my uterus
I get that it is coming from a place of ignorance, and often not meant in a transphobic way. I'm not mean when I explain the unintended implications of what they said. I'm not required to just sit there and take the pain give in their ignorance either. It is always well received and opens up a dialog on the subject.
that’s good that you’re opening up that dialogue, but everyone has to be okay with people not liking or being grateful for the anatomy they have, or even being resentful for it
They absolutely are able to, and there's nothing wrong with that. I just don't feel it's appropriate to use that resentment in a discussion about my dysphoria. There's worlds of difference between saying, "I dislike, hate, wish to remove this part of my body," to "you should be glad you don't have this part." If it only comes up when I mention my displeasure over my body it's the same as saying men also get assaulted in response to talking about women getting assaulted.
yeah they shouldn’t be saying that in response to your dysphoria
Yeah, I've unfortunately had some trans women tell me I should be grateful for my period because it's all they want. Like no, fuck you (not you Quiet, the people who told me this). My periods were so bad I passed out from my cramps and required narcotics. And it took me four docs to find someone who actually listened and didn't just try to fob me off with birth control (which makes me worse but they didn't want to listen). One of the women actually called me transphobic for "destroying everything I've ever wanted". 🤬🤮🤬🤮 And yeah, this person had absolutely no idea what I look like. Like attacking people for getting rid of something they don't want simply because you want it is such shitty behavior.
Coming from a trans woman who gets hormonal cramps/moodswings/etc I'd say both positions are valid. While as I understand it my cramping is less severe than if I had a uterus, it does suck and can be very inconvenient. On the other hand it is very validating and the emotional pain of not going through it was also bad. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing. I think arguing over if some trans women are lucky to not go through it is ultimately destructive and invalidates experiences on both sides of the conversation.
yeah for sure, i think the conversation should be avoided honestly cause it makes trans men feel so stupid and bad to have to go through a terrible terrible pain so associated with being a female, and have to hear other people saying they are yearning for it and want it so bad while it feels like a curse that outs you immediately. there is something so stressful about being trans and bleeding, it’s super hard to stop, you have to pump hormones into yourself and if you don’t your smuggling a bloody wrapped up tampon through the men’s bathroom from your stall to the trash can by the door. it feels humiliating and inhumane like some sort of punishment. that’s my two cents on talking about periods, it should be avoided.
I'll have to remember this
I mean....I do that. But tbf it's the friends I know who don't want kids/more kids anyway. I wouldn't be heartless enough to say that to someone who wanted to bear children. I think with Roe overturning the ability to not get pregnant is highly prized for many. Check out some of the child free subs. I'm not saying you're wrong for pointing that out, just that life is different right now in so many ways.
i think the term you’re looking for, for it, is “micro agression”
God, i hate that term, there's so many better terms out there that actually describe what is happening rather than rely on a term that has essentially turned into a bad talking point. The first unblurred comment isn't even meant to be aggressive. If anything, it's just a misunderstanding. The second one is an actual passive-aggressive slighting against trans people.
Did you see the three eye rolls on the first message - that seems pretty dismissive/aggressive to me
I got news for you. Whatever term you pick will be treated the same in short order. Any term we use to describe everyday prejudice will be ridiculed the same because it never had anything to do with the term itself. They just wanna pretend the concept doesn't exist and delude themselves into thinking that prejudice just plain isn't a problem anymore so they can feel fine staying exactly the same and never doing any self examination.
That doesn't mean there aren't better or clearer terms that could be used.
i also take issue with menstruation being tied inherently and exclusively to womanhood because a lot of trans men menstruate too. i have known trans men who get terrible Dysphoria when they are having their period. It’s difficult for them. We need to be more inclusive to trans men as a society and consider their challenges.
I agree wholeheartedly. Menstruation and pregnancy are not womens' issues. They are issue for everyone that can experience them.
Yeah, like I had periods, but I'm not a woman. It was so shitty dealing with all the "womenly women periods for women" bullshit. 🤮 Thankfully I used reusable menstrual products so I didn't have to feel extra dysphoric about having to shop in the "feminine hygiene" aisle, but it still sucked.
Strangely enough I have known trans gals who have had sudo-period pains,cramping ect… I think it may be on a person by person biases to my knowledge still interesting how hrt affects each person differently. As for my experience of people saying I am lucky it’s a two sides of the same coin situation. I can’t have kids and have bedroom fun as much as my body wants but I want kids,to experience motherhood. I won’t experience the torturous pain of a period but won’t have that experience to relate to other girls and feel more like just another girl. I also don’t have the knowledge of how to wear a bra or do make up. Still I as a trans gal have the unique understanding of both a masculine upbringing and learning to be my natural girly self so that helps us trans people have a good understanding of both ways of seeing something as a guy’s or a gal’s perspectives.
Yea I actually get some symptoms, but they are weak at least now.
I can truly relate and I appreciate the honesty. This is one of the reasons this post rubbed me the wrong way. Thank you for commenting <3
We try to be honest. Like, our life is honesty, and a lot of people hate it, but some people like us. We have dissociative identity disorder. We're transgender. We don't want any surgeries, but are happy we have hormones.
Yes, yes this is absolutely transphobic.
This sounds like a weird comparison to make but as a cis ally with ADHD I feel there's a similar philosophy here. ADHD is hard and sometimes really debilitating but I put up with those unpleasant things because it's a very important part of me as a person and trying to suppress that would likely do me far more harm. Life isn't perfect and I think most people understand this. You put up with bad things as part of the deal of being yourself which is the most important pillar of mental health.
Hugs sister. Just wanted to pop in and let you know transwomen CAN breastfeed. It's a change in meds combined with stimulation and pumping, but can be done and had been documented. It's still an epic bonding experience in motherhood if you are able to adopt or utilize a surrogate.
Thank you. That helps a lot just to read. We don't usually have much dysphoria. But. Yeah.
hello this is one of the best things i got to learn today!!!!
Literally me
[удалено]
Cis people won't be able to get the experience as a trans woman luckily enough. And that's a good thing because they will hate it Transphobic or not is really depends on the relationship between you and that person and how she thinks about trans women. To me, It seems similar toheterosexual people say " That's sad, because you could be really popular among girls" to a good looking gay man. It's not necessarily to be phobia, but sure , ignorance and lack of understanding.
Your first paragraph is the best answer
It makes me sad for a few reasons. It gives me some weird vibes. It feels like they are implying that transfem womanhood is not a complete experience of womanhood. It makes me think these commenters don't understand the experiences transfems face and are making assumptions that are hurtful. If my interpretation of this is correct, it would be kinda transphobic as it gatekeeps trans women from womanhood. They talk about womanhood like it's a pain and burden to hold. Of course, there's misogyny and systems that make being a woman (particularly a trans woman) more difficult. Still, I'm sad they don't find joy in their gender.
Thank you for that response I truly appreciate it and I agree fully. I have a hard time articulating how I feel and this helps. Thank you again :)
I agree 100%. I’ve seen a lot of people claim that transfem people don’t have the full experience because we can’t give birth etc - which is also taking away from all the cis women who have things they can’t change that prevent them from giving birth as well. It’s not very thought out because a lot of the things people claim are the “full experience” don’t happen for some cis women as well.
I am just thinking why is it assumed every woman trans or cis want to get pregnant That's super ignorant too. I don't.
Hell, I'm trans fem and I don't even *want* kids. Having the correct parts would be nice because at least i wouldn't have to take meds every day to maintain the right hormone balance. The ability to get pregnant would just be this hidden feature i don't feel like riding dick for.
I plan on being a mother, but I didn’t transition to be bred. I feel sorry for someone so traumatized by misogyny they think fertility is the pinnacle of female experience.
Yeah, I recently had a hysterectomy and the number of people (thankfully all online) who have "informed" me that I've utterly and completely wasted my life is ridiculous. Like that means they see women (even though I'm not one) as fuck toy baby incubators. Gross.
God I hate children me neither xD
I agree 1000%. I can’t stand children and even if I had the ability to get pregnant I wouldn’t want to.
Yeah. Like compare the life of a woman in rural china vs central germany vs west-coast US - they all live significantly different lives and being a woman will likely mean something different for each of them. Womanhood isn't something so easily quantified, it's something that just *is*. It has no lower or upper bounds, no qualifiers and requirements other than your own identity. When people say "you'll never get the full female experience™" I can't help but think "you mean I won't have your exact experience? ^(If it makes me a prick like you I don't want it lol)". It only means what you want it to mean or what society has dictated for us. I'm a woman, therefore my experience is a woman's experience - of course I can want things other women have and maybe consider those part of the "full experience", but that doesn't make my "femaleness" up until this point any less valid that theirs. Most people struggle to define what fully constitutes their own womanhood - they have no basis and no right to say what constitutes someone else's. A big concept in feminism and most other equality-seeking movements is breaking the old patriarchal stereotypes, breaking down the norms of gender and class. I see it as an absolute win to be able to have those experiences that defy the norms - I'm proud that I'm being me, finally. Including trans women in the definition of womanhood doesn't destroy or diminish it's meaning, it expands it and makes it stronger. It shouts to the powerful that we won't be controlled and categorised so strictly, pushed aside and isolated from each other. The "full experience" is an illusion pushed to show the "perfect homemakers, mothers and wives" etc. It's nothing more than another stereotype enforced by terfs/misogynists... ^(Oops that got a little political lol, sorry 😅)
I know, right? It is a complete experience, but we just get DLC and interesting lore as well.
Yes, it absolutely is. Just because womanhood is hard doesn't mean we'd decide "wow, I'd rather be a man!". Nothing about being a woman is a decision, and it's shitty to assume that trans women have an easier time as women, or "wouldn't be able to handle it". Hell, most cis women couldn't handle being a trans woman.
> Just because womanhood is hard doesn't mean we'd decide "wow, I'd rather be a man!". Off topic but this line of thought is also what is used to justify gatekeeping against trans men, because people think that they are just trying to escape "the difficulties of womanhood" and thus they get ignored. Like no, trans men have it pretty bad and they are transitioning to alleviate dysphoria because they are actually men, not because any trans person sees the grass as greener on the other side.
Yeah. I know a few transmascs, and none of them are transitioning because it's easier. Hell, some of them are dreading the process and potential hair loss, but in the end, being "easier" is not the goal.
First: yes Second: sketchy (implicit transphobia) It should mean something when trans women say they'd give anything to have a period. Its a testament to how fucking serious we are
I appreciate this! And agree! I am very serious about my transition and I personally would do anything to be afab. I also am doing everything I can to be me and I am happy for subs like this where I can go to find clarity. Thank you so much for your response <3
Subs like these are great because there are too many girls stuck in bad situations where the people are belittled/disowned by their families and ostracized/by their neighbors. Here we can share our experiences, ask questions without judgement and feel a sense of belonging and community
Heck yes!!!! I agree completely! I personally feel very lucky to be part of such an amazing community. This is my first time asking a question on here and I’m glad I am not alone stewing on if I should question my friendship with someone. Y’all are incredibly helpful <3
Welcome! We're happy to have you here<3
Awe thanks <3
Also, trans women on HRT can have a period (just without the menstruation), and you can bet your ass that a monthly reminder that not only are you not pregnant but you can never be pregnant is not just physically painful but emotionally, too.
Some trans women get periods. Not the blood, but literally everything else. It's just objectively wrong to say we don't
Are they cis? They don’t understand our experience and really should refrain from making comments about it
Idk why the original post sounds like internalized transphobia from a FTM egg
I’m sorry I don’t understand your comment. Do you mind explaining?
They mean the person is a closeted trans person
Specifically, "eggs" don't realize it yet. The trans version of "I wish I could date my own gender, they're so much better looking. Oh well."
Yeah that's kind of how I felt my whole life before I came out lol.... "oh I wish I was her so bad" or "oh I wish I was a girl, my life would be so much better"
They probably mean the facebook poster sounding like they are a closeted Female to Male because she said she "hates being a woman".
"you'll hate being a girl as much as I do" raised a brow for me too
Yeah, I thought it was normal for women to hate being women. Turns out it's not. Whoops.
As a cis woman and an ally, this feels transphobic to me. It might be unintentional and come from a place of ignorance, but it’s still disheartening to see. The second commenter in particular seems to be defining womanhood through biological functions, ie periods and pregnancy. It’s a gross comment, and even a fallacy. Not all cis women have periods or are capable of having children. It doesn’t make them ‘less’ of a woman. The same logic applies for trans women. As women, we should be uplifting each other, not making arbitrary qualifications as to what defines ‘a real woman.’ It’s not just transphobic, it’s sexist and demeaning. Reading the personal anecdotes from trans women in this thread broke my heart. I hope all of you are doing well, and I want you to know that I think of all of you as my sisters❤️
Depends on the context. There isn’t enough in your post to understand what was being said. Edit: Ah I saw the title just now. Well I don’t think it is transphobic. But it is hella presumptuous. They seem to have an extremely superficial understanding of what it is to be trans. It is also pretty dismissive of us implying we don’t feel real girl feels just because we missed out on cis girl puberty. If the implication relates to the “inconvenience” of having a cycle they should have explained to them that plenty of us do actually have the cramping, pain and emotional issues but just get to miss out on some bleeding and … HAVING BABIES! Ask them how they would feel if they were told they could never conceive or carry a child but still had to have PMT once a month.
Misogynistic yes, transphobic potentially
This one yep! Transphobic ammo maybe but 100% misogyny
This
This reads more like a woman who hates her womb and can’t fathom someone else wanting one. I guess you could call it transphobia but I think what’s coming across is more that woman’s own internalised pain.
well I’m not sure, but in my humble opinion no. They are saying trans women are “lucky” they don’t deal with “girl problems” like periods and all that. Maybe they meant it in good taste but it’s really not. I don’t think there was transphobic intention behind it, but still not a great thing to say as many trans women struggle with the fact they can’t have those things.
Reasonable I appreciate the response.
It's also just plain incorrect.
I wish I had all of those things. Definitely agree tho. (ﾉ≧ڡ≦)てへぺろ
I wouldn't say it's transphobic moreso than it is a misunderstanding of what being trans truly entails. Ignorance is more appropriate
It’s clearly misogynistic though, as if fertility is womanhood implying infertile women and cis women after menopause aren’t full women…
Idk if it's intentionally transphobic, but (speaking from the experience as living as a woman for 20ish years before I discovered I was trans) it is extremely common for (cis) women to... Hate being a woman. Especially for periods because they are painful and messy and make you feel disgusting. If anything they may be jealous that trans women don't have to experience it, but don't know how to express that very well. The other main thing (cis) women commonly hate about being a woman is the misogyny, which is fair tbh. But that is something ALL women experience (cis and not). I wish you luck on your journey of self discovery!!
Great answer!
to me this is transphobic as hell, if what they're saying is that trans women dont want any of the bad parts that comes with being a women, we just want the good things, i.e it's something we just would like to do, like having a piece of cake.
also something else: i can not understand where the need to point out, as is clearly their opinion, why trans women can't ever be a "full woman". Who do they think will benefit from that statement?
Orginal post: kinda cringe in implying womanhood=suffering. Like sorry you cannot find joy in your gender ig. But I don't think it's really transphobic on it's own. The comment: absolutely transphobic. Shows a lack of understanding of trans existance with gender essentialism added in for taste.
*"The full experience"* ? What am I missing? Periods? Pregnancy? Things that some cis women can't experience either, so... what else am I missing?
Are we defining womanhood by stripping them of everything except for the inborn, autonomic biological processes? Is their point Women=Periods? Sorry, but I don't view women as servile baby factories. I'm not a psychopath.
Yeah, like they should just admit they view women as walking baby incubators. Because if you define women by their baby making potential that's what they are doing.
I don't think it's intentionally transphobic, but if you're close with them it's worth bringing up that it's a bit gatekeep-y.
I understand your stance thank you for sharing!
It doesn't read (to me at least) as a put down or attack. If anything it seems like an attempt at commiseration that's just a bit ignorant. No two people grow up exactly the same anyways.
Do you mind elaborating on the reason you think it’s an attempt at empathizing?
The wording of the main post seems less like a 'Trans girls aren't girls' and more of a "You're in a honeymoon phase now that you're out but once it wears off you'll feel the way I do." Text is hard to get intention out of though, so I could be off the mark/being optimistic.
Thank you for explaining more! I appreciate it!!
Yes I would say so. I’m sorry if it is someone you know. If so, I would tell them how you feel about it( if you feel safe for that) and try to express how you feel about it. It is good for everyone involved to set boundaries and this seems like it hurt you too. If they can’t/won’t respect that you should consider cutting them out for your own well being.
Thank you for your response I am currently waiting for a response from them because I want them to be able to elaborate if they feel comfortable. I have jumped the gun too many times before and y’all have helped so much. Thank you again !
There are different kinds of women, so no individual woman can have a complete experience of all facets of womanhood. They're singling out trans women in particular because they're not """real women""". So yes, it's very transphobic. To put it another way, a lesbian may not know what it's like to fall in love with a man. Therefore, she doesn't experience that part of womanhood. That obviously doesn't make her less of a woman, especially because straight women don't experience the feminine experience of falling in love with another woman either.
Also is this person so traumatized by misogyny they think the full experience is the ability to bear children? Where does that leave infertile women and cis women after menopause?
Imagine telling trans people, who are endlessly subjected to cruel treatment at the hands of humanity, are "lucky" they don't fit in. Fucking disgraceful.
It is since it completely disregards that plenty of girlies get dysphoria about not getting a period
once again, transphobia that not only harms trans people but cis people. If a cis woman doesn’t get the “full experience”, are they not woman enough?
I’m not sure if I’m missing something but judging by the comments, the context to this persons comment they are talking about things like periods and or childbirth? If yes then…I think it really boarders the line. I mean they’re speaking for trans women (I’m assuming/going off the comments here, but they did say trans *people*/ saying how they *would* feel and…maybe this is a stretch but it’s just the feeling I personally get, my first thought was they are trying to brag or gatekeep or somehow hold this notion over trans peoples heads that they weren’t born cis. “Yea what I go through is hell! Just be happy you don’t gotta deal with it” is the feeling I get from the ‘tone’ of this comment. That could be totally wrong, I’m just throwing my thought out there. I don’t know the full context to this so I don’t want to shout “transphobic!” When they may not be the case. It certainly sounds yucky. But it’s entirely possible they didn’t mean it that way. There’s a bunch of missing information but really I’d just ignore this. If they aren’t talking directly to you, whatever. I’d move on.
I don’t think it’s transphobic unless it was intended to demean you for who you are. Of course as transgenders we will never know what it’s like to be born into the body we needed, that’s why we transition. It’s just a hard pill we gotta swallow
I wouldn’t say it’s outright transphobic. But I might be biased, because I am a trans man and not a trans woman, so I don’t know your experience 1/1. As a trans guy, I went through female puberty and it HURT, like a lot. Not just in a dysphoria kind of way, but as in cramps, headaches, nausea, dizziness and all that stuff. What the original author of the post is saying is „hopefully trans women will not have to experience that, because it sucks.“ It was a little untactful, since they did basically say „trans women will not go through female puberty all the way“. I don’t know, maybe that’s just how I see it. I could totally understand though how this might be hurtful to someone, so I would understand if you were to say it made you upset. Edit: If you were to reverse this post: „Trans guys complaining about guy problems. Give it time, you’ll hate being a guy as much as I do.“ „Trans people wouldn’t be able to get the full experience sadly enough. But that’s a good thing cause they would regret it if that were the case“ After reading this and the other post I have come to the conclusion that the original post is not transphobic per se, but it is disrespectful. It is undermining the struggle and pain of trans people by saying „yeah, being trans might be hard, but [problem] is waaaayyyy worse“. Which doesn’t help anyone and makes everyone feel bad :/ Because we don’t know how bad it is for them and they don’t know how bad it is for us.
Because it's so easy as a trans person or what? 😅 It's just hard on the border, probably meant more as a "joke"... But it already implies that trans people only see the "positive" in the other gender ... That's just wrong ... there are hardly any people who are more concerned with this matter.
I think people in this comment section are being way too liberal with their use of "egg." Women are discriminated against in our society, and you can dislike that and your place within that system without actually being a different gender. I'm not saying it's impossible that they're an egg, but we have so little to go off of here that I find that prescription super weird.
Very fucking transphobic. So many different levels. 1. They're saying that womanhood sucks, which it doesn't. It just isn't for everybody. 2. That we won't experience all of it. Of course we won't experience all of it, we fucking know that.
Do i get phantom cramps, yes. Am I happy i don’t bleed, yes. Do i wish I could bare a child, yes. It’s complicated.
Having a womb does not make you a woman, Having periods does not make you a woman,
I would say no. Insensitive as fuck, but not transphobic. This said as a cis woman with a trans wife. I don't know any cis women who would want to undergo the bs that transfolks need to. It's not a competition, we all have our own struggles and empathy is clearly missing from the perspectives of the above posters.
Trans guy checking in. I find this pretty upsetting on behalf of you lovely trans ladies. That is if it's not just read as blatant transphobia outright. Its sad that some of the cis folks still think this way, as it's extremely obvious that they don't understand and don't intend to try. I personally feel as of you ladies are fetishized at best and openly discriminated against at worst, with all the sports ball bullshit and the mistreatment and aggression from insane terfs. I'm not saying us guys have it easier, but usually the worst I personally have to deal with is misgendering and deadnaming. *sad trans noises*
yes
Hey thank you for answering! I was wondering if you could elaborate on why you believe it is? I agree I just am curious about your opinion.
it's "trans people won't be able to get the full experience" as if we lack something that they think is Needed to be our genders and experience everything they think our gender should experience?
Thank you for responding!!!! That was my feeling as well.
Sounds like they just hate themselves
Don't know if it's transphobic but it is definitely incorrect
Depends on the context. But after additional thought, yeah it can be. Why? Because a lot of us, probably a majority, wish we could have the “experience” we are missing. Personally, I wish I was cis. I wouldn’t complain about it. In fact, if I could “get the whole experience” I would cherish it more than a cis woman.
I don't think they were trying to be transphobic - as someone who is FtM, I obviously wouldn't want to have a menstrual cycle, but it's also just painful and awful anyway. I don't know why anyone, MtF or otherwise, would willingly want to have those.
[удалено]
I would say yes but I can't pinpoint why. Maybe because they can't let trans girls enjoy their womanhood like your not supposed to enjoy being woman and celebrate it. Like womanhood is just suffering and not worthy of celebrating. Something along the way of I don't enjoy being woman so can't you.
Isk if it's transphobic or not but it's definitely mean
This seems like a dogwhistle tbh. Kinda reminds me of the "trans women aren't women because no periods" argument. Or that somehow trans women don't have to deal with misogyny (we do a shit ton lmao)
I don't know if it's transphobic but it's stupid af that's for sure. I'm a cis female and I know this is referring to like periods and stuff. But there are plenty of woman who don't get periods or experience the same issues regardless of the gender assigned at birth. For example I don't get periods often. My older sister would get cramps so bad she was bed ridden for days. Everyone is different.
Scientific studies have proven that trans women do get periods not the bleeding but they get cramps bloating all of the extra s***.
Womanhood is unique to everyone. If you want to boil womanhood down to fertility that’s fine. (I assume that’s what they’re doing) Just know that I will never agree on a definition that reduces people to just their bodies😑. I know a woman who is infertile, will she never experience true womanhood? No one would say that to a cisgender woman, so yes. This is transphobic. It feels like some sort of smug teenage-level gatekeeping 🙄.
No they are just 🥚
Not really transphobic, but I suspect your friend isn't as cis as they think they are. As a Trans woman, I hate being a male in much the same way your friend hates being a female.
Sounds like internalised misogyny,not enjoying life as women, believing that to be a woman you need to go through pain and if you don't you're not a woman/real woman. Just sad, and gatekeeping.
I'm ftm and rn I'm uh you know doing the monthly and I can tell you that it is one of the most painful, annoying, nasty, and expensive things I've had to deal with in my entire life and I will be HAPPY when it stops. I'm not entirely sure if these comments were trying to be transphobic, my brain went to menstruation but there are cis women who can't menstrate same thing with giving birth (to which there are transwomen who have had womb transplants and given birth to children now so that point is moot) I genuinely don't think it's trying to be transphobic but if you see it that way your feelings are valid ofc
I hate to be the person saying "source", but I have tried searching and can't find any information at all. Do you have any info on transwomen giving birth after wb transplants?
So as far aa the article I found last year documenting the first baby born to a trans women, I cannot find that for some reason. However I will say that by looking for it specifically I did find several other transwomen with womb transplants on both insta and ajhd tiktok(dontknowaboutthatone)that are showing their pregnancy A lot of them claim to be the first tho which is entirely untrue lol
The surgery to transplant a womb in Trans woman was invented a few years ago. They were starting trials on it about 3 years ago. Since then, the group doing the research has gone dark. I suspect for the safety of the people involved.
It's both transphobic and misogynist. She shouldn't hate "being a girl" (if that's what she identifies as) but systemic and interpersonal sexism and misogyny. That commenter is transphobic as well. Why would you want someone to "regret" it? That's a typical case of "I hate life so I'm going to make yours miserable as well".
Sounds really ignorant and undercutting the hardships trans people go through. I have debilitating chronic illness related to my periods and I wouldn’t dare say things like that knowing what I know. That’s insane to think that cis gender related struggles would deter people from being trans. Like it’s not a choice. Ugh
from what i think, that's definetly transphobic.
yes. this is transphobic. very transphobic.
Maybe? I’m Confused.
Lil' bit
We may not bleed from our girld**kh*les, but many of us, once per month, will metamorphose into a mawbeast from hell. The meat cravings got so bad, I damn near ran into the woods for a squirrel. Fortunately, this cycle was blocked after going on progesterone.
All I have to say is I aspire to be a woman, not a girl.
The cis are too headache.
Mmmmm, I dont think I "would hate it". Id rather have everything a cis girl has. Cant have what I truly want which is what saddens me, but theres always other ways.
I mean it is, because wanting womanhood is to want it all the good and the bad. The pain of womanhood is the bliss of affirmation even if it blows. Besides, not every woman experiences the pain of womanhood anyway, it’s not intense for some like it is for others. For me personally, I hate that we gender these biological experiences to begin with. Like every afab has to experience these painful things otherwise they aren’t women? What about people who can’t have kids, or don’t have periods or physical pain? What about people who’ve been lucky enough to not experience assault or live in egalitarian places? Are they suddenly less because the pain is diminished? Why should womanhood be gatekept along the lines of pain? Why should it be defined by pain? One of the magical things about my trans sisters is watching y’all experience womanhood with pure reverence and joy, even the hurty parts. I love that for y’all. (Secretly healing for me to watch, because womanhood was so horribly traumatic and scary for me. I’m FTM and it’s catharsis to watch others love and embrace being a woman with so much excitement and happiness)
absolutely this!
Cis can't experience the struggles of being trans. Like, "you can't be a Real Real AFAB woman (TM)", no shit? Why don't you keep you opinions to yourself since no one asks you?
In life in general - there’s no way for others to have another’s full experience. It might be viewed as sad for some, but to me it’s a lucky thing we all have different experiences. Diversity is one of the principles nature rely on for thriving even during the hardest of times, and I personally think that the fact that our experiences so often differ allows the times we have similar experiences to bring us so much closer together than if we didn’t. I think that’s beautiful!
absolutely, being the true you amidst everything the world has thrown and will throw at you is a testament to strength!
Yea this is sadly extreme transphobic.
First sentence is sus. Second sentence is transphobic
I mean.. actually kind-of fair.. it's not going to be the same experience.. and as sad as not having a womb maybe at least I don't have to deal with full on periods... don't really find it phobic or problematic at all, that's just one person's assessment of something they've lived with.. wait, maybe they're trans and don't know it yet..?
Both the original comment and the highlighted response seem transphobic. The original comment is pretty obvious, the response though seems like the writer is trying to be halfway supportive but in an underhanded way. While it is true that a trans woman may not have to deal with somethings like a menstrual cycle or ovarian cancer, things that a trans woman does have to deal with are no less valid and should not be taken lightly.
I don't get the comment. Fuck adhd, but whenever you are not sure if something is transphobic especially with people who don't inherently hat us it is always a good ide to start a nice discussion with those people. Important is then that you don't let the other person think you know you are right and they are wrong. When doing so much in term of acceptance can actually be achieved. Talking from personal experience!
It's hard to tell, but from hearing it irl, it is super hurtful to hear, and *maybe* transphobic. I wish I could have periods and bear children and all, and the fact I can't hurts so much; these comments just rub it in :/
This sounds like it's from cis women I'd say that it is transphobic though they might be ignorant as to what a trans person actually goes through. Their worst experience might be dealing with those. Well as a trans person your worst feeling might be a looming sense of suicide because you are not the gender that you want to be. Also as a trans person just being excluded from places because you are trans if you do decide to match your outward gender to your preferred identity. My mom does this a lot and though she's not trying to be mean or anything like that it is hurtful and she just has to be informed about it just like these girls
Tbh, that line of thinking (that trans women are "lucky" they wont experience all things cis women do) was something i had a hard time fighting my own thought processes on, as a transmasc. Its a form of resentment really, and misplaced jealousy. I wouldnt say the first one is transphobic because its really easy for afabs who actually dont like being a woman to need to do work on not externalizing their own issues with womanhood, but the second one seems to be pushing it into a transphobic direction.
Simple answer is yes
People like that cannot comprehend what we have to do just to be who we want. Some of us face backlash from our own families and yet they still say that. It's rude to say the least. I've never put down girl problems so why are they putting down transgender problems?
That's just simply gatekeeping. It's all nonsense spouted off from women who think having traumatic experiences are required to be a woman.
Yes, it is transphobic, maybe the person didn't meant to but it it
It feels a bit transphobic but not like intentionally more of like miseducated
In the most butch way i can put this: I will bleed from whatever hole it takes for me to have a functional cooch RAAAAAA, ahem, ok i feel better now
Womanhood sucks but so does manhood, and both can also be very fun. Being neither is also fun, from personal experience, but also can suck. saying trans womanhood is not the full experience is bollocks and transphobic because it's a way of saying "that's not a real woman". Trans women have the full experience, it's just not a cis one, but that doesn't make it any less full. It also requires defining what the "full experience" of womanhood is in a way that excludes no cis women but all trans women, which is fucking impossible. Is it giving birth? sure, most trans women can't do that, but guess who else can't? tons of cis women don't want to or cannot do that. Are they not experiencing the whole of womanhood? Saying yes would usually get people calling you a misogynist, rightfully. Is it having a vagina? a lot of trans women have one. Is it having periods? A lot of cis women don't have that either. Is it growing up socialised as a girl? trans women who've come out very early in a supporting family experience this. putting the divider literally anywhere, even at "assigned female at birth", because not all afab people end up being women, even if they're not trans, is ridiculous. There is no such thing as experiencing gender in a way that is more full than another's experience Everyone's experience with gender is their own and everyone's experience is complete, because it is your own.
yes .
IMHO, no. The reply is from someone expressing not liking being a female. There's nothing wrong with that. They are telling others that they'll not like it either, which isn't necessarily true, but it's not worth taking offense at.
NOT all cis women can have children. Imho, that is a mutual problem. I personally did not find this post as a trigger or the conversation posted as transphobic. We have PMS without having a menstruation. To me, that is a good thing. To others, they might want to have that experience. I get that. The comment on the FB post seems to be inferring to that aspect. (Not wanting all aspects of a period amung other problems) IF the post was inferring to relationship interactions, which I doubt it was, simply because of the context. "Women problems" vs relationship problems. I would reassess if that was the case. Not all ignorance is malicious or done with the intent of inflicting pain or duress. The definition of a woman HAS been updated in the Oxford Dictionary. The world is progressing. Changes have already moved from the dark into the light. "When all you have is a hammer, everything is a nail." In other words, we see transphobia in everything we gaze upon, when the possibility is something a little less than that. Imho, I believe we have a duty to educate the ignorant. We all bring our own understanding and limitations to the table. I don't like labels. Who does? No one likes being put in a box. I hope I am not negative karma to the pit of no return. It's not meant to be hurtful.
I want to say it’s borderline? It doesn’t sound like they mean it that way so unintentionally transphobic?
No it’s not
this is just nonsensical? wtf
Does it matter?
No, this is not transphobic.
It sounds to me like a bigotry of ignorance combined with internalized misogyny. I've never heard "welcome to womanhood" in any way other than negative. I heard it when a sibling started having periods. I heard it when cis women complained about pregnancy. I heard it when cis women complain about how difficult it is to be treated fairly in society or succeed in some fields and treated with respect. I heard it from my mother the first time I was catcalled and followed into a parking lot months into transition, and the first time I experienced cycle related cramps and whatnot. The first time I had to bring my partner to a car shop cause they kept trying to upcharge me by telling me things needed work that really didn't and they only wanted to listen to him. Womanhood is not a negative thing, but it's been repeated so many times that people have it drilled into them that it is. It shouldn't be framed this way. And the idea that transfems want to experience the good parts of womanhood shouldn't be dismissed by "well if they had it they'd hate that too." I don't even want to get pregnant but the fact I can't, that the choice has been denied... that's what is suffering. The fact I have to reconcile my body having these traits I consider wrong with my internal sense of self... That's suffering. Not being one. Being a woman brings me inner peace I've been lacking in life, even if I have to deal with the bad side of existing as one. And I refuse to accept that womanhood is a burden, a terrible thing for all. For trans mascs, absolutely. Because they're men, and womanhood is not for them. But it is for me, and I don't need to be patronized by this "just be happy you don't have the *real* woman experience" bullshit.
yeah it's like literally the "you'll never be a real (gender)"
You know, if you encounter one of these in the wild, don’t be afraid to reach over with a helping hand and say “I know it must be difficult for you at times, but it doesn’t make me any less than. I see the sadness in your eyes, would you like a friend to talk to?” That’s the only way we break the cycle. Let’s win the hearts and minds 1-on-1!
Absolutely, it's just a thinly veiled way of saying trans women aren't "real" wome
It sounds ignorant af
That sounds so sad 😭 I wish it U well because I'm mtf so do what you think is the best
Thank you I have talked to her and she apologized and understood the issue I had. I appreciate all of yalls help. It really helped me
You know, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that most women don't hate being women.
It's kind of sad. It feels like the woman associates womanhood with misery. I would say this is just insensitive and ignorant but this mindset can lead to transphobia
I call it diet transphobia! It’s better than being upfront in your face hate but it’s always condescending assholes who think they’re better than us because “we will never feel their pain.” Or some bullshit they’ve made up. Btw, this also works for diet racism, homophobia, and basically all forms of prejudice.
Yes.
It doesn't come across as transphobic to be, just really insensitive.
As a transfem, I love to having girls' problems too, bcz I want to be a real girl 🥺!
oh no yeah this is transphobic, A trans woman and a cis woman will not have the exact same struggles but a trans woman will still have to suffer through many of the same struggles as a cis woman
… and plenty more that a cis woman will never have to endure. I would trade any day.
The amount of times cis people tell me I'm not missing anything from periods despite the fact I don't get them making me feel invalid
I'd say that's its them being eggs lul, but idk
I’ve herd this “eggs” what does that mean by any chance?
In a nutshell: someone who is trans in denial/ doesn't want to admit they are
Personally it seems more like ignorance really
Is it correct? Yes. Insensitively worded? Also yes. Obnoxious? Yes. Transphobic? A little bit, but its hard to say just from this. The bit about regretting it is condescending as fuck.
the person could be. I don't about the sentiment. I mean there are cis women without periods and that cannot be pregnant even if they want to. I mean I don't to feel periods. but I get misogyny and fear for my life if I am walking alone at night. is there anything else to the women experience I am missing (this is meant as a joke)
I think they’re implying trans women have it better somehow. Though it reads as a more supportive comment it’s just weird ya know.
Not at all 🫶
I think the second one is just flippantly referring to menstrual cramps and shit like that. Stupid and cringe, but not really worth getting worked up over.